DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Chaos in Baltimore

How can I not see that, it's all over the news. Just as a handful of bad cops overshadows the cops trying to do a good job, a handful of thugs looting a liquor store or burning a CVS drowns out any message of nonviolence.

not really.

Cops are covering each other's tracks. that makes them just as bad as the ones doing it.

cop BCDEF might not be bad cops, but when they don't report cop A doing stuff against the laws, specifically against civilians, they makes them just as bad.

I respectfully disagree.

We don't need to remove the cameras. We need to re-train our news outlets to train those cameras on the whole story. That simple act would give context and perspective to what we see in the news... and allow this observation, made by you:

"There are way too many good people there trying to maintain peace."

...to be a major part of the narrative too.


The problem isn't the cameras. The problem is where they are aimed- and why.

.02

I must be Black, because I love fried chicken.

j/c

Let's explore the word "thug" which has been used a million times over in the media, as the recent Baltimore unrest has unfolded.

With all the looting, burning and general chaos that has ensued since the the death of Freddie Gray, there has only been one death:

Freddie Gray.

Just recently, criminal charges were brought against those in whose custody Freddie Gray was placed.

They didn't burn a building.
They didn't loot a store.
They didn't stay out past curfew.

But they are they only group of people in this whole sad scenario who actually have human blood on their hands.


Is it not fair to attach the word "thug" to these members of the Baltimore Police department? Just as much as is attached to the folks we saw on TV?


If so... why?
If not... why not?


The answers to this question will tell us all who each poster truly is in his heart.

Think hard before you type.
The internet is forever.

Yes, I remember electing his Mexican Gardner to speak on my and every other Hispanic/Mexican's behalf.

I could not agree more. The media does a horrible job at reporting the totality of what is being said. They allow the image to be of violent response juxtaposed to a violent act. It's the old adage, "If it bleeds it leads."

I've seen pictures of older folks, black and white forming a line between the police and the protesters but every story seems to focus on the looting.

Here's my thoughts on recent events and the reaction to those events . . .

1.) There are good and bad people in all walks of life, nationalities, genders, occupations . . . good and bad. Not all cops are brutal and not all young black men are thugs.

2.) Speaking of thugs, the thought that this seems to be the new "N" word as it is suggested by certain politicians and talking heads and those writing for "news" sites on the internet, is corrupting our language and hence our dialogue. If there is to be some type of racial dialogue in this country we cannot have one where we have to scrub our speech clean of any words that may be construed as offensive. There are some things blacks are going to say that will be uncomfortable for whites to hear as there will be some things whites will say that blacks will be uncomfortable to hear. But that does not necessarily equate to hate or racism. I get the feeling that these "elites" in society, or "leaders" of the black community do not want a dialogue, rather they want a monologue with the audience nodding their heads in unison.

3.) Will someone PLEASE pull Al Sharpton aside and tell him to stop?

4.) Our police have to deal with all of the WORST behaviors of human society every single day. Go and watch the TV show "COPS" again. I couldn't do that job. Now, some cops I have run in to exemplify the best our community has to offer where other cops and in some case, many cops of a single department seem to behave like thugs (there is that word) or better still, like a gang with a badge.

5.) Lastly before I head off to work, back in the day, one or two cops could be called to respond to a disturbance and even if there were twenty youths going at it, they would disperse immediately. Now, you need a platoon of cops to address just a few people getting out of hand. Four or five officers have to hold down one person! I think that speaks more about the state of our society rather than police brutality....


That's my two cents....

Can't the same thing be said for the people who know a person, who looted, rioted, set fires, and who broke other laws but they don't come forward and turn those people in?

No. It's not a citizen's job to do that. While they should (enter philosophical debate here), it isn't their job. It is a Cop's job however.

sure it can be,

but civilians aren't the ones "protecting and serving". they aren't cops.

when you become a cop, or anything of the sort, you're signing up to maintain a HIGHER standard within yourself and the department you represent.

I didn't intend to give the impression that you believe he deserved to die. My point is about the reaction to these incidents and how our constitution supposedly guarantees a day in court.

I think James Holmes is often mentioned when wondering about police killing people.

From what I understand he was so calm and dressed like a member of the SWAT team there was no reason to use force.

When emotions get involved like the emotions felt by people who feel they're being treated unfairly I think it would be easy to bring up someone like James Holmes regardless of the facts.

I've always felt that I would never be able to give an opinion about the death penalty. I doubt I would want to tell families how to find justice.

Some of the Boston bomber's victim's families prefer he get life and just go to prison so they would not have to constantly relive the trauma.

I think it's reasonable to have a different adjective to describe the rioters/looters than to describe six police officers charged with wrongful death of some sort.

The ONLY adjective to describe them all is...well...there isn't one at the moment. If the cops are found guilty, we can call both groups criminals, lawbreakers, thugs, etc. If the evidence is compelling-enough, ALL of the cops will be called 'arrested' while most of the looters/rioters will NOT be called 'arrested'.

I've heard the word 'thug' numerous times in my life. Why is it being so heavily scrutinized now? If the cops are found guilty and were then called thugs, I don't think there would be such angst over the use of the word 'thug'. There seems to be more focus on the word 'thug' than the folks who were breaking the law.

As far as what's in my heart? Lots of things. However, what's in my mind in this regard is that one group clearly BROKE the law while the other has been CHARGED with breaking the law. In my mind, those groups can reasonably have different descriptors...at least until the second group is found guilty.

There is a time and a place for everything. Heck, I may even jump in front of a camera (doubt it) in this situation with adrenalin, anger and mob mentality prevailing such as a week ago today. Many folks will participate in activites within a group that they would never anticipate as an individual.

The problem is poverty and lack of opportunity. No one ever said the cameras were "the problem". I simply stated it bothered me that they were offering opportunity for a few seconds of fame and inappropriate language. However, cameras at the wrong time can exacerbate the situation. That is what happened a week ago today.

We, the public, need to know what is occuring, yes. When peaceful and intelligent community leaders are working behind the scenes toward calm and peaceful protest, these individual flying in front of the camera only enflame others who then jump on board. It then becomes counterproductive.

Now, we have an entire generation who have been sent the message that you will be heard if you reign violence and destruction upon a community. Wrong message for our society to convey.

Does change need to occur? Yes.

The responsibility, in this situation, is upon the leaders of this city who have permitted status quo for so long. The poverty, lack of opportunity, a corrupt criminal justice system and lack of affordable housing should have been addressed long ago in this great city by those leaders who are supposed to understand and lead.

Sadly, I don't hear a great deal about that from the looting camera mongers in the streets. They simply place responsibility on the police officers. It runs much deeper and wider than that.

I find no necessity in labels in life. Without understanding one's history (and we know nothing of the looters, rioters or officers) labels serve no purpose at all. Labels may only color ones perception of another.

Thug is a noun. I can think of other adjectives to describe some folks but that is not the question at hand.

Good luck with this one.

I'll buy that. Which leads me back to my rant of last week of only having 2 groups, good people and bad people... I would agree with you that a good cop who fails to deliver the truth on a bad cop, is no longer a good cop.

You are getting into semantics but I'll play..... primarily because analyzing the terms we use often shapes the way we view things.. and I think it's a worthwhile exercise, much along the lines of how a college victory riot is viewed differently than a protest riot.

The word thug is defined by Webster as a brutal ruffian or assassin.. so by definition, if these guys did what they are being charged with then they are thugs... you can call them thugs and I will have zero problem with it. I might call them thugs myself...

Then there is the popular street definition of a thug, which is what I think you are getting at... when you say the word "thug", an image comes to mind and it's not a guy in a suit or a cop uniform.. it's a guy, usually younger, more than likely black, wearing a hoodie and baggy jeans and generally up to no-good.

the difference, I think, comes from the notion that a "thug" is generally viewed as a person who is always up to no-good, while a cop is generally viewed as a person who does more good than bad but may commit a criminal act.

I was listening to an interview with Jordan Spieth, the young golfer who won the Masters. In the interview they asked him if he considered himself a "superstar"... and his response was, "for that week I was, but overall I don't think so"... that's how I would define these cops. Are they thugs? I don't know, but for that moment they were.

And I would say the same for the rioters on TV.. are they thugs? I don't know, but for the time they were looting a CVS and throwing burning trash cans at the cops they were.

As usual you have no educated reply to what the man said, you dismiss his comments as not being representative of an entire people, which was never his intent, perhaps he is beneath you as only being a gardener or perhaps you dismiss what he said because he is of Mexican decent. You should work out your problems before you post.

happy birthday bro

I don't think that was intent. I think it was your intent to make him a spokesperson for the Hispanic community. I also doubt you have a Mexican Gardener. I think you're a compulsive liar.

Yea, right, my gardener is considered by me to be THE spokesman for all Hispanics. Take a nap or something.

As far as your other thoughts, well they are your own and you are entitled to them.

to be fair, you made it seem like he was the spokesman, and rolled with it.

you took his one comment and posted it as if thats what the entire hispanic community feels.

To be fair, some of you need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

if multiple people read the same thing, and interpreted in the same manner, you're probably the one that needs to work on some skills.

What was the purpose of telling us a story about your gardener? If it was "This is someone's thoughts on the matter" then why did you have to mention that he was Hisapnic? Unless, of course, you were trying to build ethos to support your claim that "If you work hard it doesn't matter what race you are; you'll be successful" by using a fellow minority... The one part you missed though is that the gardener is not successful. Who is he to talk about success or what it means to achieve success if he is not successful? He is no one. Which is ironic, because he doesn't exist. I did like the "Senior 40" part... Not even Hairdawg heemself wood make fun ov summonelse's dialet

Can we just go back to dismissing your posts with jokes? Explaining why you're wrong is really not worth it.

Whoa, man. Back off a bit. First, I hardly think 40 has a gardener. I'm with you on that.

But, IF he does - or if someone else does - and the gardener thinks he's a success, who are you to tell them they aren't?

What is "success" to you? To me, it's happiness. Liking/loving what you do, and living accordingly. ALWAYS knowing many other people make more than I do, and many make less than I do.

And, ALWAYS knowing I strive for more, just as every one else does.

Maybe I took your post the wrong way?

You did and you didn't.

I have no problem insulting a fictitious gardener. My points were made to entirely rip the story to shreds.

As many of you have guessed, I'm a pinko-communist. I don't generate success based off of a number in someone's bank account or what they do for a living. You're a success if you reach your own goals and subscribe to your own philosophy. At least to me. My post wasn't to destroy the working man or anyone else. It was just to destroy a fairy tale.

As usual, posting here is a waste of time and thought but I will say one more thing on the issue of my gardener, based on what I pay him for 3 partial days per week and the fact he probably has 10 other clients, this unsuccessful guy is bringing in at least $150,000 per year, minimum!
CHS needs to let go of his preconceived prejudices and come to understand the words of another successful man...

"The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
-Ronald Reagan

Dude, if you're going to lie at least make it believable...
Your gardener comes 3 times a week? What do you do the other 4 days? Starve? Cry? Blood sacrifices? But hey, if you spend 13k on gardening a year then who am i to judge?

Ha! Even what you refer to as an ignorant immigrant gardener knows that you don't need a gardener every day of the week.

And Arch, I know, I know, you weren't defending me.

Can you just state for the record that you spend 13k on lawn care a year.

150/11(you plus 10 other customers) = ~13.5

Please. Just confirm this. I want to hear you say that you spend 13k on an imaginary gardener who happens to give you great social commentary.

Well at least you now confirm that you read what he said and you state it was GREAT social commentary.

My problem now is do I tell you the truth about my gardener or do I say it was ME who made such GREAT social commentary while you praise my every word.

Well, The truth is he said it and you are too low on what I pay him.

So you're really committing to this lie that you spend over 13k on a guy who works part time 3 days? Well, ok.

Also, "great" was clearly sarcasm.

Your use of the word "Great" was obviously in reference to what he said and not sarcasm.

Why do you have a problem with the gardener? I don't understand. He takes care of the lawn and shrubs and flowers and trees on my property, it is quite a bit of work but it isn't 40 hours a week work. Three -less than full days- per week is plenty of time to care for it all. He is then off to another client, some with larger properties some with smaller.

You probably wouldn't like it if I mentioned the Maid, would you. I understand tho, you are young and have only probably just made your first million. I have been making money for a much longer time.
I mean heck, you do have a Mechanic to fix your cars don't you? You don't do that yourself do you? How much do you pay him per year rich guy?

40 has done this before. He pretends he actually associates with people from other ethnicities, so his bigoted statements don't seem as bad. Kinda like the 'ol, "I can't be racist, cause my sister's, daughter's, mailman's kid is black." Whatever man. . . It's comical at this point.

Wish I had some right now.

As usual, the guy who thinks he knows everything knows nothing but it never stops him from talking out of his hat. Foolish.

Why is it so hard to believe someone pays someone that amount of money to do something? The higher the skill and quality of work the more money you can charge per hour.

On top of that, the trust a client feels they can place in you will earn you quite a bit more also.

Would someone mind reposting what the gardener said? I'm a little late to this conversation.

There's my man Ted. If I lived closer, and needed my property painted, I would hire him. Then I would have his many wise words to share.

The Gardener sir...

I was speaking with my Mexican gardener the other day and I asked his opinion. He said anyone who comes to America and applies themselves with hard work and dedication will find success. It is one of the few places in the world where every man has a chance to make something of himself. He said you even see it in the Black Americans as the ones who work hard, get educated, and set goals instead of excuses, become successful. You see, Senior 40, how the Black News Anchors and Policemen, the Subway Engineers and the Firemen have worked hard to achieve success while other Black people complain and riot and are not successful. Many expect they are entitled to success because of past unfairness. We however know this is not so. Very seldom does anyone hand you anything in this world. Success must be earned and worked for, not given or taken.
Interestingly he finished with these words...
America does not have a Minority problem or a Race problem, it has an attitude problem among many Black Americans that only they can overcome.

Thank you!