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The biggest thing I see with Orchard is that he was more explosive and got more pressures standing up. I may have to chart this to see.
you had a good run Hank.
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"I'm just here so I don't get fined" - 2nd RD pick Nate Orchard with quote of day on signing contract yesterday
Tackles are tackles.
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Did we sign Marshawn Lynch?
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I just listened to his interview, this guy does NOT sound like a 22 year old. He sounds like a 40 or 50 year old and is so mature. I can really see why they pulled the trigger, this guy has a family, wants to play hard and has the motor IMO to do that (he never gave up when watching highlight tapes) and I'd recommend ya give it a listen to if you haven't: http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...0b-1069dcf4c545
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He had 3.5 sacks against a tackle drafted in the top half of round one, but I guess they might not have been playing Stanford football that game. Nate Orchard, Utah A study in making sure you see the entire picture, Orchard is a player who in some games offers plenty to get excited about and in others struggles to wow you with consistency. In spite of the up-and-down performance, however, Orchard was productive throughout for the Utes. Performances such as those against Oregon where he was a force against the run and against Colorado State in his bowl game, both against draft-eligible tackles of high regard (Jake Fisher and Ty Sambrailo) illustrate Orchard’s potential. On the flip side are games against Fresno State and Washington State where he recorded poor grades as a pass rusher (two pressures in the games combined) and even his four-sack performance against Stanford was as much about unblocked pressure and late plays than the overwhelmingly dominant display that his base stats from the game would suggest. A consistent run defender over the second half of the season, Orchard brings an all-around game and that a player this productive isn’t among the very best in this class shows the depth and quality of this class at the edge position. Signature Stat: His 52 defensive stops were the most among edge defenders eligible for the 2015 draft class. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/04/30/cff-overview-ed-something-to-work-with/
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So his negatives are a four sack game, not getting much pressure against teams that rely on a quick passing game, and being a consistent run defender?
Sounds pretty good to me. Even unblocked he still had to finish, and coverage sacks still go down on the stat sheet. Our secondary is pretty good, too.
He probably won't be the greatest OLB ever, but he sounds pretty solid for the 51st pick.
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52 stops is awesome. 4 no-gains/losses per game from the OLB position would be huge for this defense.
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52 stops is awesome. 4 no-gains/losses per game from the OLB position would be huge for this defense. He seems to be a lot like the guy who is replacing -- Jabaal Sheard. Not overly athletic, but does enough to be pretty good.
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I hope Orchard can set the edge and contain, because absolutely nobody could do it on a consistent basis last year. Sheard was a ferocious run defender, and a below average pass rusher in the 3-4, not sure why. I remember his rookie year in the 4-3 he was pretty good. After watching these highlight videos I feel better about the pick. Obviously having competition between him, Mingo, Solomon and Bryant, should drive him to be even better.
I'm excited to see what Orchard can do, but keep an eye on Armonty Bryant and Scott Solomon, I think both of those guys can step up and win some time at the OLB/Rush spot. Solomon was a beast last year in the final two games, and Bryant before he got healthy was a great pass rusher, even as a 3-4 end.
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I don't think Solomon will make the team.
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I don't think Solomon will make the team. I don't know. Supposedly they want to look at Armonty Bryant at OLB. That would give us the following at OLB: Kruger Mingo Orchard Bryant Solomon Pough That is not a huge level of competition for him to overcome. I would guess that we will keep either 4 or 5 OLB, and if we keep 5, then one could be Bryant, who could swing between OLB and DE. I would guess that Kruger, Mingo, and Orchard are locks to make the team. Bryant will likely make the team either as a LB or DE. That could mean that Solomon and Pough could compete for one spot, or could be out before they start. At ILB, we will have Dansby, Kirksey, and Robertson as locks. Carder was a solid special teams guy, and Pullard was drafted this year. We also have Eubanks, who the team reportedly liked before he was hurt last year. Then we also have the kid we signed from the try-out.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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My guess is that one of the UDFAs will make it over Solomon. He is one of the last guys on the roster right now.
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My guess is that one of the UDFAs will make it over Solomon. He is one of the last guys on the roster right now. Who do we have that we signed as an UDFA at OLB? As far as I know, we only had 4 UDFA signed for minicamp, those being OL Loos, OL Miller, DB Saunders, and DL Wynn. We then signed a LB in today's roster changes, but he is a 222# guy, I would guess an ILB candidate. I just don't see that many LB candidates on the roster right now, really, only those I listed..
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I didn't necessarily mean outside linebacker. I just meant that when a guys name come up at the end of training camp as a guy the team wants to keep, Solomon will be one of the first guys on the chopping block.
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Hmm, what makes you say that?
I think that they will look at the numbers by position, for example, they are not going to keep only 4 OLB. They will almost certainly keep at least 4, and probably 5 given the substitution defenses they play, and the way they could use guys in a modified 4-3 at times.
If they keep 5 OLB for a 3-4, and 4-3 modified defense, then they will keep Kruger, Mingo, Orchard, Bryant, and someone else.
Who is the other person?
The other current options at OLB are Solomon and Pough, at least as far as I can tell.
Do we agree thus far?
Now, there is always a possibility that they may see a guy who is cut that they like better than one of the guys we currently have. Indeed, this may even be a strong possibility. However, I thought that Solomon showed some solid ability last year in the couple of games in which he played.
In the 2 games in which he played, he has 7 tackles, 1 sack, and a forced fumble. He also had a sack and a forced fumble in limited time with the Bucs. It seems as though he has some ability rushing the passer, and he seems to know how to create turnovers.
Do we agree that a 5th OLB is likely to be a situational player? If we do, then what situations is he likely to be used in? Do his demonstrated abilities fit those situations?
I think that they might.
I woudl also add that Solomon was a DE with the Bucs. He then made the transition to 3-4 OLB with the Browns. I think that he showed some real potential at the position. Do you disagree? If so, then why?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I think we are going to be keeping more defensive linemen than last year. I also think we will be keeping quite a few defensive backs. That will reduce the number of "outside linebackers" on the roster.
Solomon played well in his two games for us. But he played he in games 15 and 16, games where many other players on the roster were hurt. Ideally he would have never seen the field. Solomon has been on four teams in three years. He is, by definition, a replacement player.
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"Replacement players" sometimes become contributors though, based on what they showed why they were replacing someone else. In fact, sometimes they actually replace the guyb they replaced for good.
Now I don't expect that to happen in this case, but I would also not be too quick to write him off so soon either.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I didn't mean to write him off, I just think that what I described is the most likely scenario.
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j/c:
The more I look into Orchard's game, the less I like of him. I hope he surprises me like Kirskey and Hughes.
At this point in time, I have questions about:
--his ability to set the edge on running plays. That disturbs me because our scheme is already weak in regards to that facet of defense.
--his explosiveness off the snap. It seems like a lot of his sacks were due to Utah's scheme or by great coverage by the secondary. I really don't see a great pass rusher when I watched him.
Hope I am wrong.
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j/c:
The more I look into Orchard's game, the less I like of him. I hope he surprises me like Kirskey and Hughes.
At this point in time, I have questions about:
--his ability to set the edge on running plays. That disturbs me because our scheme is already weak in regards to that facet of defense.
--his explosiveness off the snap. It seems like a lot of his sacks were due to Utah's scheme or by great coverage by the secondary. I really don't see a great pass rusher when I watched him.
Hope I am wrong. Here's an article about Orchard from the senior bowl: Link
MOBILE, Ala. -- One of the great things about the Senior Bowl practices is they always allow a handful of players to go from intriguing prospects to pleasant surprises in a matter of three days.
Count Utah's Nate Orchard among that type of prospect this year. Previously thought by some to be a late Day 3 selection in the 2015 NFL Draft based on concerns over his size at defensive end and question marks about him playing in space as an outside linebacker, the Utes star -- who finished second in the country in sacks last season -- answered just about everything he could by getting to the quarterback no matter where he lined up.
While he succeeded in the North team's practices best when he had his hand in the ground during one-on-one drills, Orchard was also able to flash traits as an outside linebacker that NFL scouts were looking for.
"Definitely it's big," said Orchard of his transition. "I had a chance this week to get some reps with that at SAM 'backer. It was good and I had a very productive week and couple of days doing it."
Orchard checked in at 6-foot-3, 251 pounds during the official weigh-ins and mixed things up with fast-rising prospects at offensive tackle like T.J. Clemmings and Rob Havenstein in both run-blocking and pass-rush drills. At defensive end, Orchard was surprisingly stout despite giving up nearly 100 pounds to his opponents, but really shined trying to turn the corner while using his speed to create an advantage while standing up as a linebacker.
You can still tell Orchard is a bit raw at times, but he seemed to be doing everything he needed to this week to firmly point his draft stock arrow up.
"I've been playing with my hand down the last 10 years," he noted. "I did have some chances in college to drop back into coverage though, so I think it will be a good transition."
The former All-American in college flashed during Wednesday and Thursday's practices in particular, and memorably snagged a screen pass for an interception during team drills one day that drew plenty of "oohs" from NFL coaches and fellow players alike. Plays like that are one reason scouts are buzzing, and the hybrid player is earning plenty of praise from those with a close eye on him.
"I love Nate Orchard and what he did this week," NFL Media Analyst Daniel Jeremiah said. "The question of his size wasn't an issue at all. You saw his ability to get off blocks and get off the ball."
Safe to say, Orchard made himself one of the players to watch during Saturday's game and heading into the NFL Scouting Combine next month.
Seems like we ended up with a bunch of players that showed well at the Senior Bowl.
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I don't think Solomon will make the team. Can Solomon, do what Pough does on special teams?
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I don't think Solomon will make the team. Can Solomon, do what Pough does on special teams? What did Pough do on special teams last year?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The one thing I have noticed with Orchard is that he was a much, much better pass rusher standing up. I don't think he had the explosion as a down lineman that he should of, but when standing it seems to really help his first step become good.
I'm interested in how that eventually works when he isn't asked to be down anymore. I am concerned with his lateral quickness, but he did test out well at the combine on his 3 cone drill...at least comparatively. He won't win with overwhelming athletic ability, but I really like his skills and his intelligence when playing the game.
you had a good run Hank.
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The sample size we got from Solomon was small, but go watch highlights of the Panthers game late in the year, he absolutely went to town on their offensive tackles when he was in the game. I don't think he made quite the same impact against Baltimore the following week, but he was very effective in run support with his hand in the dirt on 4-man line packages.
Kruger, Mingo, Orchard, A. Bryant and Solomon I think are the five OLB's/Pass rushers that make the team.
I'm hoping both Solomon and Bryant are able to wreak havoc in the preseason. We could be in line for a very deep pass rush to go along with our newly remodeled run defense.
Last edited by MrKelso; 05/12/15 12:52 PM.
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Solomon definitely surprised me. I think he makes the team this year and I'd like to keep my eye on how he does during the preseason as well.
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Kruger, Mingo, Orchard, A. Bryant and Solomon I think are the five OLB's/Pass rushers that make the team.
I'm hoping both Solomon and Bryant are able to wreak havoc in the preseason. We could be in line for a very deep pass rush to go along with our newly remodeled run defense.
Hopefully we can sneak Noel onto the practice squad, too. If he can get his weight up, we could have something. He's a converted safety, and his ability to bend and get square while pass rushing look better than Bud Dupree. But, can he maintain it with more girth?
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I like all those guys, and the idea of keeping them fresh with a rotation is really exciting. I'm not sleeping on Mingo, either. He played last year with a bad shoulder, which shows he's tough and hints at what he can do when he is healthy. Is 25-30 sacks from those 4-5 guys crazy to imagine?
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j/c...but to me I think we could be missing the boat on Nate...every thing I read on him tells me he is very good against the run. I do like his prospects and he seemed to have a better sense of control on the EDGE in 2 point than he did in his career at 3 point. With experience it could be even more promising.
But what is standing out with me is that he seems to be an Excellent prospect as well in our Run D from the OLB position. I believe it was our Priority on making it an IMPERATIVE on getting great on Run D. We took a kid who we think has to (maybe not 40 speed in shorts) but the field speed to own the edge for pass plays AND RUNS.
Like all rookies I'll have a better bead on him by the Mid Season point!
jmho
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j/c...but to me I think we could be missing the boat on Nate...every thing I read on him tells me he is very good against the run. I do like his prospects and he seemed to have a better sense of control on the EDGE in 2 point than he did in his career at 3 point. With experience it could be even more promising.
But what is standing out with me is that he seems to be an Excellent prospect as well in our Run D from the OLB position. I believe it was our Priority on making it an IMPERATIVE on getting great on Run D. We took a kid who we think has to (maybe not 40 speed in shorts) but the field speed to own the edge for pass plays AND RUNS.
Like all rookies I'll have a better bead on him by the Mid Season point!
jmho Did you miss the article that I posted earlier? It was similar to many others I read. Here it is again: Overview Had five tackles and two quarterback hits in 2015 Senior Bowl. In 2014, tied for FBS lead and set school record with 18.5 sacks. Led the nation in quarterback knockdowns with 28. Selected second-team All-American and first-team All-Pac-12 and won the Ted Hendricks Award as the nation's top defensive end. Tied school record with four sacks against UCLA. Finished second on the team with 84 tackles. Started all 13 games in 2013, forcing three fumbles. Selected honorable mention All-Pac-12 in 2012. Arrived at Utah as a 6-foot-3, 200-pound wide receiver. Changed his last name from Fakahafua to Orchard to honor Dave and Katherine Orchard, who took him in and became his legal guardians as a youth. Orchard is married with a daughter. On course to graduate with a degree in economics in May 2015. Analysis Strengths Good foot quickness. Tackles struggle to handle his inside move. Explodes out of a track stance on passing downs. At his best as a squared-up rusher with a two-way go. Utilizes unique stutter step combined with burst to beat tackles inside. Seamless coordination of hands and feet as a rusher. Smooth hips to backpedal into space or turn and run laterally. Stronger at the point of attack than given credit for and offers scheme versatility. Shows juice upfield out of stand-up position. Still improving and learning his craft. Has ability to discard and make plays against the run. Has upper-body flexibility to beat blocker with shoulder turn. Still improving, but shows ability to use hands to help him win quickly. Played well against Stanford LT Andrus Peat. Weaknesses Not much of a factor against the run. Will get engulfed at the point of attack. Scouts say he lacks "lead-dog aggressiveness." Not consistent enough as edge setter and rarely looks to lay a shoulder into fullbacks and tight ends coming across to block him. Wins with foot quickness and effort over skill and counter moves. Has a mechanical spin move. Short strider who doesn't gain as much ground around the edge as expected. A little tight in hips and rounds the corner rather than turns it. Only one year of big production. Draft Projection Round 2 or 3 Sources Tell Us "When I'm on the road, I hear other scouts tell me they think he's tough enough but his tape doesn't show it. He's a finesse player with some a high ceiling as a pass rusher, but he could easily bust out." -- NFC director of college scouting NFL Comparison Trent Cole Bottom Line Teams will either be wary of Orchard's single season of sack dominance or they will view it as an indicator of growth and potential stardom. Orchard will be below average against the run, but his draft grade and paycheck will be tied to his athleticism and pass-rush talent. If he can develop counter moves, he has big potential. If not, he might be nothing more than a middling, situational pass rusher. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/nate-orchard?id=2552299
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Vers, I'm simply sharing another point of view here. I've read different viewpoints on this kid. To me, it appears analyst need to justify or explain why the kid had this jump. As the article you presented wrote, it is 50/50. I never heard of the kid until he played in the senior bowl. I'm partial to Ourlads, but I'm not sure that gets me a cookie or not!! Nate Orchard | OLB Analysis:
Fourth year senior. Winner of the 2014 Ted Hendricks Award, given to the nation’s top defensive end. Came to Utah as a 200 pound wide receiver but was quickly shifted to the defensive side. Orchard is married with a daughter. He wasn’t a well known commodity until November 2013, where the light went off. Since then, he’s been one of the elite edge rushers in the nation. Orchard is a bit undersized and still a little wide receiver type body to him, but he is a player on the rise. His 2014 breakout and post-season/pre-draft performances overshadow the lack of production over his first three years art Utah. He is a smart, explosive player that can play the game fast and physical. He may need a 3-4 scheme when all is said and done but we are talking about a first round caliber talent with 10+ sack per year potential.
-David Syvertsen/Ourlads Scout
For a bulked up high school wide receiver who weighed 220 lbs as a freshman in Provo, Orchard has come a long way to post 18.5 sacks and 84 tackles in 2014. Until he matures physically he fits as a situational pass rusher and not the three down player most teams crave in round one. -Robert Hoffman/Ourlads Scout
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I read it...yes, its a report and lists his Run D as a negative...does not mean that is it no need to read further it is said and done.
I was going on a lot from the Senior Bowl cause that report you showed is a quick assessment (remember these guys have to do 350 reports pre draft).
I was going a lot from not only the report here on the senior bowl but several that I had read. Yes, I too am speculating that THOSE REPORTS are true. But everything I read from the Browns they like his prospects in the run game. They like him in 2 point not 3 point. He seems better in space.
I think more than once I remember reading the word STOUT regarding his run D prospects.
As said after I get to look at him around mid season I'd be more apt to give an accurate description. I just think as OLB there were only a few who could handle the edge in pass or run. What ever the prospects were they will have to be trained up for sure.
We'll see Vers...just making a prediction I guess not a statement of fact cause I have not seen this kid enough to state anything for sure especially in 2 point. But I'm allowed to have a feeling on it. From the little I have read...not just your report but others. You might have a feeling somebody might be a bust...so be it we all have feelings about an UNKNOWN. I get it though you have a report that belies my thoughts. Not a Homer DOH! moment for me.
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I gotta say, I thought that was all he would be but getting a little more acquainted with him, I think he'll be a big piece in stuffing the run. I'm liking this selection more and more. I think Mingo's game reps may be heavily effected by Nate, just a lil prediction!
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I read it...yes, its a report and lists his Run D as a negative...does not mean that is it no need to read further it is said and done.
I was going on a lot from the Senior Bowl cause that report you showed is a quick assessment (remember these guys have to do 350 reports pre draft).
I was going a lot from not only the report here on the senior bowl but several that I had read. Yes, I too am speculating that THOSE REPORTS are true. But everything I read from the Browns they like his prospects in the run game. They like him in 2 point not 3 point. He seems better in space.
I think more than once I remember reading the word STOUT regarding his run D prospects.
As said after I get to look at him around mid season I'd be more apt to give an accurate description. I just think as OLB there were only a few who could handle the edge in pass or run. What ever the prospects were they will have to be trained up for sure.
We'll see Vers...just making a prediction I guess not a statement of fact cause I have not seen this kid enough to state anything for sure especially in 2 point. But I'm allowed to have a feeling on it. From the little I have read...not just your report but others. You might have a feeling somebody might be a bust...so be it we all have feelings about an UNKNOWN. I get it though you have a report that belies my thoughts. Not a Homer DOH! moment for me. I've read he's good at setting the edge, and I've seen run defense listed as a weakness. I wish the people who listed those negatives explained them more. From film, I don't see his run D as particularly deficient. It looks like he performs his role in the scheme to me. He forces the run back inside where the interior defenders can make the play. He generally doesn't give up much ground at all when playing the edge setter, but can get moved when used as more of an interior penetration style run defender. That shouldn't be much of an issue as a 3-4 OLB. It's much harder for an offensive lineman to win the leverage battle when they have to move laterally before contact rather than just firing out of their stance in more head to head situations. That's my take anyways.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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Joined: Apr 2013
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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This guy is sure to be the next Lawrence Taylor right?... 
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Joined: Jan 2015
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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This guy is sure to be the next Lawrence Taylor right?... Nope, no off the field issues  
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
This guy is sure to be the next Lawrence Taylor right?... Four years from now it will be, "Lawrence who?" 
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Hall of Famer
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If Nate Orchard is half as good as LT we have ourselves a darn good player!!
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Joined: Apr 2013
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Orchard was the 12th rated LB on the draft board with 7 or 8 better ranked LB's sitting there. One can only hope he is half as good as LT. Heck, just be a 1/4 as good. WTG Farmer!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,398 Likes: 280 |
Is it wrong to think that if he just does to Ben what LT did to Theismann that it will have been worth the pick?
yebat' Putin
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 Browns select Nate Orchard with
51st pick
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