DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 Browns Select Duke Johnson with the 77th pick

As plainly as I can say it, I don't see "crap" in the article. It's the beginning of the off season. Johnson was a consensus top performer before being drafted by the Browns. The article states that he is displaying some of the skill that lead the team to draft him during rookie minicamp practice. He mentions that other RBs who had good pro careers from Miami are advising him. All sounds like the kind of advise you'd hope he would receive.

The one thing I really like is Duke's mentioned (can't be crap if it was a direct quote) that he and West have already talked a little about team and winning. That's positive and more so for what it says about West than Johnson because West has been questioned about his attitude.

Thanks YTown.

My thoughts? I think the author used language, twisted facts, added opinion, was very subjective, etc all in a ill-disguised attempt to deceive his readers.

That isn't to say that Johnson sucks. I do think it is good he is talking to former NFL running backs. I do think that he can be a good change of pace back [provided he can stay healthy,] but I still think the article was intended to deceive.

How's that?

It's May, what deception is being perpetrated in May?

That every pick is a great pick when they haven't played a down yet.

Please specify the twisted facts used in the article, thank you. I'm only asking for any twisted facts, if you want to specify the opinion you object to that is fine as well. Although I think writers positive or negative have a right to state opinion. I'm also willing to entertain examples of subjectivity and etc. if you wish to provide them.

Every pick is an unproven pick until they've played a down. However you can get some sense of their potential from these types of articles.

It certainly is not outside the realm of possibility that some of these picks are very good picks. It seem equally subjective to suggest that they are not good picks...in May.

Or that every pick sucks and the F.O. sucks even though no one has played a down yet.

Weird how that works, isn't it.

Where did I say that every pick sucks?

In fact, I think I have praised this draft more than I have criticized it.

It's just you guys being you guys. No one is allowed to have an opinion that doesn't fall into line w/the mobs way of thinking.

And guard........get real. There were so many posts blasting true statements made by LaCanafora and others, yet you are buying into that last article hook, line, and sinker???

LOL..............YOU actually prove my original point of how biased and unreasonable so many of you are.

Good night.

Good night.

I nor you were talking about LaCanfora before this exchange so to me he's not at all relevant to the issues you raised here. So I'm not interested in talking about anything other than what you have already said about this "crap" article. If you want to go on a tangent I'll just stop here... but I'm still waiting for you to respond specifically to what I asked you.

a lot of keyboard muscles in here

Vers I hope you read this post before responding. If not so be it. With more time for reflection, I'm not interested in getting into a flame war with you. That's just not where I want to expend my energy.

There is room here for all types of points-of-view. When it veers into the personal that's when it becomes excessive and unnecessary. I have no intention of curbing my own opinion and will gladly offer my rationale for it when asked. I expect no different of you.

McGahee was our RB in 2013, after we dumped Richardson on the Colts.

At first I was going to say that McGahee was here during the twilight of his career but it was actually way past mid-night for him! He could possibly give Johnson some decent insight on just being a pro. As for the Browns' he could speak a bit about the environment, the passion of the fans, etc.

dont worry eotab, ive tried to force the memory of mcgahee as a brown from my memory as well

Apparently, Duke wrote a letter just like Hayes Pullard's. Here's the link:

Duke Johnson NFL Letter

Sidenote: I didn't realize Duke's real name was Randy Johnson. I wonder if he can make pigeons explode, too.

Good one Grimm

Not much to say about the article.. I like the pick, I think he will upgrade our RB group and he will contribute right away. I like the fact that he caught a screen and made a couple guys miss and went up the sidelines, in the grand scheme of things it's about as meaningful as it would be if he had dropped the pass or run out of bounds...

I'm just confused by the part where it says "he caught the spriral and..." we have QBs who throw spirals?

Alright, people are STILL denying this is not a homer article. Not you, YTown, but many others.

Some wanted reasons why I thought it was homeristic. Others said they didn't see any homerism. Allow me to explain:

--Who wrote the article? Kevin Jones, right? Who does he work for?

That's not enough? Okay..........

--

Sure sounds exciting. We have words like "electricity" and "juked" and "diving" and "significant" and we have getting by "two diving linebackers" Hmmmmmm............how much tackling are they doing in Rookie Camp?

That is just a start. Want me to go on?

apparenly less than in jacksonville.

What?

i know to soon. was referencing how Fowler got hurt, to much of a scrum of bodies for a training camp session of no contact. shouldnt be any bodies on the ground this time of year unless they are doing pushups or situps.

Oh. Thanks............I was lost....LOL

Was trying to add the cool pic but o well i give lol
I wouldnot have drafted a back but Duke would have been my top choice. now we have our RB. [img:center]http://thebrokenelbow.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/cereberus.jpg?w=500[/img]

Mourg............I posted this earlier, but let me run it by you in case you missed it.

I like Duke and I don't like Duke. Here is why:

Like:

--Change of direction
--Speed to the outside
--Shiftiness
--Can break tackles because guys get off balance when worrying about his moves
--Can catch the ball
--Explosive at times

Don't Like:

--I see him as a 3rd down or passing down back. However, he is poor in pass protection and that can't happen at the NFL level. Man, that is HUGE.

--Runs too much to the 8 and 9 hole or beyond. Not really an inside runner. Speed is much better on NFL defenses.

--Been banged up a lot since he changed his running style from being a complete scat back to a more complete back.

--I say he is an injury waiting to happen.

I hope the guy makes it. His running style is similar to my own back in the day. And if you read real close, maybe that last tidbit will tell you something.

I can see your concerns, but I can also see a few mitigating factors.



This is true of pretty much all backs in college. They just aren't asked to do it very much. I agree, He will need to improve on it. Hopefully we'll use him primarily as a pass catcher rather than blocker early on while he develops in that area.


Ereck Flowers was a stud run blocker at tackle. It makes sense that they would run to their strength. I have no idea who Miami's center even was, and that kind of says something because I follow a lot of draft and college coverage. I like his forward lean and he does usually fall that way. NFL speed is faster, but his speed will still require linebackers to react/commit quickly opening up playaction (hopefully, it is yet to be seen). You are right that he's really not an inside grinder.


He has been, but the running back that isn't banged up isn't getting many carries. He did have the broken ankle previously, but breaks aren't something that really lingers/risks re-injury. His size does bring some durability concerns, but that's why we'll carry at least 3 backs. He's about the same body type as Ladainian Tomlinson.

I'm not sure when your day was, but I hope preparation and treatment have improved since then.

Having Wil as our RB coach gives me a lot more confidence in Duke's ability to adapt to the NFL game. `I think he is probably the Best RB coach in the game today.

I think Crow or West can fill 3rd down role equally as well. I feel he just adds a different style to the party but he will probably get the least amount of reps but going behind Crow and West should make things more fun for Browns fans.

I knew an old dog named "Duke."

None of your "likes" guarantee Duke's success in the league.
None of your "dislikes" guarantee Duke's failure in the league.

In an offense that is yet to take its first meaningful snaps in competition none of us know exactly how'll he'll be used. If they deploy him as a deep single back in 3rd +7 situations then we deserve to have bad things happen. If they put him in motion, split him out wide, put him in the slot or occasionally line him up in the backfield with one of the bigger backs this provides a dimension that the team hasn't previously had available. Its a different element that opponents will have to prepare for. Personally, I don't envision him getting a lot of work between the tackles. I don't envision him replacing West or Crow in that fashion. Again, this will be a new offense and Duke is a different offensive weapon schematically than anything we had last year.

I anticipate that he'll be used differently than the other backs. Otherwise what was the point of drafting him?

D


Yeah, that is a huge concern, because you tip your hand to a great deal when you substitute a RB and he is unable to pass block effectively. He has to learn to pick up blitzers effectively unless he wants to be a very limited substitutional player.




He definitely needs to be able to run inside and out, or teams will key on where he is apt to run. While speed is better in the NFL, I do think that he has plus level speed for the NFL, and that he can succeed on the edge, but not playing constantly to the edge. With his sped and quickness, if he gets a crack inside, he should be able to bust huge runs inside, especially with our OL. You are absolutely right in that he cannot be a one trick pony only playing on the edges of the defense.



This is the thing that worries me most about most of the speed scat back types. The Browns talked about how well structures his body is, but the bottom line is that Terrence West is 5'9" and 225#. Duke is 5'9" and 207. His body structure almost has to be less able to absorb the beating a RB takes. However, if his carries and touches are more limited, then I think that he can be more than durable enough. If he is able to get into the open field frequently, it will be smaller players trying to tackle him.

Honestly, with the way West blocks I would convert him to a FB so he can be on the field more. Then you will always have two good running back on the field causing chaos.

The one critique of the Browns last year was that Tate, West and Crowell were of similar style.

Johnson will provide a different dimension. Frankly it was a missing dimension that made game planning simpler for the opposition. So that is a good thing.

There is enough room in the RB world for backs that can get on the edge and create mis-matches. Now, I don;t know if he can handle the between the tackle calls, but that may not be his job.

He has better size than some of the more notable third down backs. (e.g Sproles) He will probably be more diverse, but we will have to see that in reality.

I have warmed to the thought of the draft selection. He fits a need and adds another dimension to an offense that lacks playmakers.

j/c

I like adding a RB that has a contrast in style. We needed a pass catching dimension and a change of pace back. He's certainly not a finished product and Vers pointed out reasons why. But as a raw rookie all we can hope for is progress.

Gee, that is enlightening. I didn't know that. Shame on me for trying to discuss football.

Get outta here.

Other than one dumb post and the previous post where someone got upset because I had a differing opinion, there were some really thoughtful football posts since I last posted.

Grimm, I played way back in the dark ages. I had my knee drained for puss and blood almost ever day. You talk about real pain. I worked out on universal weights at times. Most of you probably never even heard of them. LOL........I am an old fart.

I like how some of you presented both sides of the debate. That's good stuff.

I like the counter points to mine that said he won't be the main back and he might become more durable because of that. That is a good point.

I really like how some of you pointed out he is a different type of back, or a change of pace back, and how that could benefit us. That is a really good point.

I hear you when you say he might be able to run inside because of our line. I hope so. I can tell you this......I started off as an outside runner. I was faster than everyone and I wanted to break everything outside. My coaches would get so mad. I was stupid and hard-headed. Finally, I had one coach who I really connected with and all of a sudden I realized my speed could best be utilized if I popped a run up the middle. There was no pursuit if I broke the LOS untouched. I would get on a guards butt [no jokes, please] and cut off of his block on the LBer. We ran a ZBS and it was one cut and go. Hopefully, Duke can adapt.

I like how some of you recognized his weakness at pass blocking and how it is important.

I like how some of you admitted he had some minor injuries. Grimm, you are right....the break means nothing. It was the banged-up stuff that bothered me.

I like when we have real football conversations like this rather than all the arguments that are all about what side of the line you are on rather than logic.

Oh, and just so you know........while I have some concerns about Duke.......I am really hoping he succeeds. He is a good guy. A hard worker. A smaller guy trying to make it in a big man's game. He'll be one of my favorites if he can stay healthy and contribute.

It seems to be fairly well agreed upon that he's a 3rd down back, and that he sucks at pass-blocking (which a 3rd down back does). My question is, is blocking an easier or harder thing for a RB to learn/develop coming into the NFL?

Just takes will and reps.