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Don't get wrapped in wins and losses with QB's. Tampa Bay had a BAD offensive line and BAD defense last year, not to mention no real offensive coordinator. McCown had no real chance to succeed there. If our offensive line can stay healthy, run the football effectively, and protect McCown I honestly think we see the SAME production (possibly more if he has a better deep arm) that we saw from Hoyer last year.
I am the last person who is going to get wrapped up in QB wins and losses. McCown has stunk for nearly the entire time he's been in the NFL (his first year was 2002). That is not going to magically change now that he is on our team. Players, and especially QBs, don't magically get good when they are 36 years old. I think the plan heading into the season was to strengthen all positions so that McCown simply has to manage games. On paper we're going to be built to run the football, and have a dominant defense that can protect leads. If all plays out this way, and we have a defense and good special teams unit that can put the offense in good situations I think McCown will be capable doing JUST ENOUGH to get us some wins, kind of like Hoyer did. We're also all forgetting that Johnny Manziel COULD win the starting job if he shows enough in camp, and having him adds another element to the offense that McCown doesn't bring, mobility at quarterback. I'm not trying to argue that McCown is going to win us games and get us to the playoffs, all I'm saying is that if everything is clicking around him he should be capable of just managing games and doing JUST ENOUGH to get us some wins. You're living in a dreamworld.
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One last thing...if our front office, Haslam and Farmer, felt they made a good move by kicking Hoyer to curb and signing McCown to be their starter...
...why did our front office boys try to work a trade with the Rams for Bradford in early March?
It was reported that the Browns offered a first round pick (#19) for Bradford. Why would Haslam and Farmer do that if they felt McCown was a good replacement for Hoyer?
Then it was reported that the Browns again tried to trade (with the Eagles) for Bradford just before the draft. It was reported that Bradford said he would not sign an extension with the Browns..that ended trade talks for Bradford.
Our front office must have reassessed the QB position and decided that McCown was not the guy they wanted as their starting QB...but they failed to get the guy they wanted to be our starter.
Also worth noting...it was reported that the Browns attempted to trade up in the draft to take Bryce Petty, but the Jets outmaneuvered the Browns and took Petty. Our front office failed again, to get a QB they tried to get.
Now I ask everyone...does this look like a front office that knows what it is doing at the QB position?
I don't care who is at QB as long as the team wins. But when it comes to this front office and their judgement of QBs, they need a professional help to evaluate QBs. Maybe someone who has actually played QB.
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So in other words, we want a strong running game to help McCown just like we had last year when Hoyer was producing well?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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This could all be a moot point though.
Hoyer got wins against the Saints, Bucs, Titans, Raiders and the Falcons.
All VERY bad defenses....
We don't have that luxury this year....schedule is much tougher (at least on paper anyway).
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Don't get wrapped in wins and losses with QB's. Tampa Bay had a BAD offensive line and BAD defense last year, not to mention no real offensive coordinator. McCown had no real chance to succeed there. If our offensive line can stay healthy, run the football effectively, and protect McCown I honestly think we see the SAME production (possibly more if he has a better deep arm) that we saw from Hoyer last year.
I am the last person who is going to get wrapped up in QB wins and losses. McCown has stunk for nearly the entire time he's been in the NFL (his first year was 2002). That is not going to magically change now that he is on our team. Players, and especially QBs, don't magically get good when they are 36 years old. I think the plan heading into the season was to strengthen all positions so that McCown simply has to manage games. On paper we're going to be built to run the football, and have a dominant defense that can protect leads. If all plays out this way, and we have a defense and good special teams unit that can put the offense in good situations I think McCown will be capable doing JUST ENOUGH to get us some wins, kind of like Hoyer did. We're also all forgetting that Johnny Manziel COULD win the starting job if he shows enough in camp, and having him adds another element to the offense that McCown doesn't bring, mobility at quarterback. I'm not trying to argue that McCown is going to win us games and get us to the playoffs, all I'm saying is that if everything is clicking around him he should be capable of just managing games and doing JUST ENOUGH to get us some wins. You're living in a dreamworld. I don't think so. Hoyer was able to do it last year. Why can't McCown this year? Strong running games, and a strong defense can and in most cases do help ALL types of quarterbacks...
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So in other words, we want a strong running game to help McCown just like we had last year when Hoyer was producing well? Except McCown seems to be a better guy than Hoyer. That's all he's got going for him other than looking like Ivan Drago.
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So in other words, we want a strong running game to help McCown just like we had last year when Hoyer was producing well? Except McCown seems to be a better guy than Hoyer. That's all he's got going for him other than looking like Ivan Drago. Why would Hoyer have been a better option? I'm curious to know your reasoning. Is it that you simply dislike McCown cause of his overall W/L record?
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So in other words, we want a strong running game to help McCown just like we had last year when Hoyer was producing well? Except McCown seems to be a better guy than Hoyer. That's all he's got going for him other than looking like Ivan Drago. Why would Hoyer have been a better option? I'm curious to know your reasoning. Is it that you simply dislike McCown cause of his overall W/L record? Seriously? Did you not read my posts like five minutes ago where I said, "I am the last person who is going to get wrapped up in QB wins and losses." Hoyer and McCown both stink. We aren't going to be good with either as our QB. McCown seems to be more willing to be a "mentor."
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So in other words, we want a strong running game to help McCown just like we had last year when Hoyer was producing well? Except McCown seems to be a better guy than Hoyer. That's all he's got going for him other than looking like Ivan Drago. Why would Hoyer have been a better option? I'm curious to know your reasoning. Is it that you simply dislike McCown cause of his overall W/L record? Seriously? Did you not read my posts like five minutes ago where I said, "I am the last person who is going to get wrapped up in QB wins and losses." Hoyer and McCown both stink. We aren't going to be good with either as our QB. McCown seems to be more willing to be a "mentor." Saw that post, missed that it was yours. My mistake. You maybe right though, maybe I'm just trying to be optimistic. I didn't think there was anything that special about Hoyer, yet we were able to win 7-games last year, mostly because of a strong running game and an above average defense that generated 21 interceptions. On paper, we're stronger at all positions (offensive line, defensive line, defensive back, running back and we added two veteran receivers). I don't think it's that out of the question for the Browns to win 6, 7 or 8 games next year if we stay healthy and get average quarterback play. But now we're going in circles with this debate. We're both fans and only want the team to win. Hopefully you're wrong, and one of the QB's steps up and surprises us next season.
Last edited by MrKelso; 05/11/15 12:58 PM.
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Why would Hoyer have been a better option?
I'm curious to know your reasoning.
continuity for one. i watched mccowns games for another. the guy holds the ball forever. did in 2013 and 2014. you know what the difference between a o-line looking good and looking bad? about 1.5 seconds. our o-line is going to look bad with mccown as a starter.
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A couple other things that have gone unmentioned yet are equally as relevant are the facts that McCown's & Manziel's names both start with a "J", and that Josh McCown and Bryan Hoyer both have ten letters in their names.
JMHO
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A couple other things that have gone unmentioned yet are equally as relevant are the facts that McCown's & Manziel's names both start with a "J", and that Josh McCown and Bryan Hoyer both have ten letters in their names.
JMHO Beyond that, both McCown's & Manziels's initials are JM...scary! 
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One last thing...if our front office, Haslam and Farmer, felt they made a good move by kicking Hoyer to curb and signing McCown to be their starter...
...why did our front office boys try to work a trade with the Rams for Bradford in early March?
It was reported that the Browns offered a first round pick (#19) for Bradford. Why would Haslam and Farmer do that if they felt McCown was a good replacement for Hoyer?
Then it was reported that the Browns again tried to trade (with the Eagles) for Bradford just before the draft. It was reported that Bradford said he would not sign an extension with the Browns..that ended trade talks for Bradford.
Our front office must have reassessed the QB position and decided that McCown was not the guy they wanted as their starting QB...but they failed to get the guy they wanted to be our starter.
Also worth noting...it was reported that the Browns attempted to trade up in the draft to take Bryce Petty, but the Jets outmaneuvered the Browns and took Petty. Our front office failed again, to get a QB they tried to get.
Now I ask everyone...does this look like a front office that knows what it is doing at the QB position?
I don't care who is at QB as long as the team wins. But when it comes to this front office and their judgement of QBs, they need a professional help to evaluate QBs. Maybe someone who has actually played QB.
The Browns asked about Bradford because McCown is obviously not the long term answer at 36 years old. Despite his many injuries, Bradford is still relatively young at 27. I don't believe the Browns were as involved in chasing Bradford as the media implied. They inquired about the cost with the Rams, it was too high. Chip Kelly tried to shop Bradford to get ammo for Mariota and got in touch with the Browns (who obviously don't have a long term answer at QB that has proven himself), but the price was still too high. Farmer has stated that it wasn't Petty he was trying to trade up for. It has been implied that they were trying to go up for Campbell who they still ended up getting (I'm not sure I fully buy it, but it's out there, and Pet does love his cerebral DBs). Supposedly, the Browns were only interested in one QB this draft after the top 2, and Grayson went earlier than they had him placed on their board (Again hearsay, but so are the other QB rumors.) The front office is trying to put a team together where any competent QB can flourish, with an eye towards Manziel possibly being that guy. I agree that in the end I could care less about the name on the back of the jersey. I'm much more concerned with the name on the front now, and the record attached to that team.
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J/C It looks to me like we are going to be trying to stretch teams horizontally as much as vertically this year. Duke Johnson was the best outside zone back in the draft ( Link) A popular play type set up by the zone stretch are bootleg play action passes. When your QB is a threat to turn up field off the opposite edge after the fake run action, the corner has to make a decision either to come up and risk the QB throwing overtop of him or dropping back and giving up the easy yards to the mobile QB. Obviously, the easy yards are dependent on LBs attacking the running back and therefore an effective running game.  These types of plays also have the added benefit of putting all the reads on one side of the field which can be of benefit to a young QB. I think those two concepts will be a big part of our offensive attack this year.
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A couple other things that have gone unmentioned yet are equally as relevant are the facts that McCown's & Manziel's names both start with a "J", and that Josh McCown and Bryan Hoyer both have ten letters in their names.
JMHO Manziel and McCown are also both from Texas and had their initial success there. Hoyer is now in Texas. Hopefully the saying "Things are always bigger in Texas" isn't actually true.
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Yeah guys lets just blow right past Hoyer winning 9 of his 15 starts here and dream dream dream we are somehow better now.
There are so many if's I can't even count them all. If, If, if doesn't sound better to me, but if away.
Hoyer is the kind of guy that is going to work his tail off to correct whats wrong and get better, you all think that somehow magically after 13 years in the league McCown is going to be something he has never been, oh that's right "IF".
Then we come to "IF" Johnny, our resident town lazy drunk. If he can only stay clean? If he can beat out McCown? If he can actually show he is capable of being an NFL, QB. If, If, If.
McCown will be who he has always been. The only wild card is Johnny and you would have to be insane to bank on him at this time..
If, If, If,
sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh
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Vince Young. . . still available.
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you all think that somehow magically after 13 years in the league McCown is going to be something he has never been, oh that's right "IF".
yet you believe a career backup who's never played a full season can suddenly become a good QB? (Hoyer) you can play the IF game with him too. IF all of a sudden he becomes good enough to be a starter. IF all of a sudden he can make it so that NFL teams dont have tape on him, and shut him down and turn him in to a INT machine. same game.
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you all think that somehow magically after 13 years in the league McCown is going to be something he has never been, oh that's right "IF".
yet you believe a career backup who's never played a full season can suddenly become a good QB? (Hoyer) you can play the IF game with him too. IF all of a sudden he becomes good enough to be a starter. IF all of a sudden he can make it so that NFL teams dont have tape on him, and shut him down and turn him in to a INT machine. same game. If he isn't a super douche who whines. . .
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Vince Young. . . still available. 
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Vince Young. . . still available. Vince Young > mccown. sad.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Vince Young. . . still available. Vince Young > mccown. sad. This is a lie from the pit of hell. Which is probably where you came from.
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Vince Young. . . still available. Vince Young > mccown. sad. This is a lie from the pit of hell. Which is probably where you came from. pfft. calling me a liar? just look at the stats. since you are to lazy to watch games.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Vince Young. . . still available. Vince Young > mccown. sad. This is a lie from the pit of hell. Which is probably where you came from. pfft. calling me a liar? just look at the stats. since you are to lazy to watch games. I am not too lazy to have two Os. You're not a liar, just a troll. Anything you bring up is not worth investigating.
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Vince Young. . . still available. Vince Young > mccown. sad. This is a lie from the pit of hell. Which is probably where you came from. pfft. calling me a liar? just look at the stats. since you are to lazy to watch games. I am not too lazy to have two Os. You're not a liar, just a troll. Anything you bring up is not worth investigating. ofcourse it isnt worth investigating. because i tell the truth. im not scared to talk football and i back up my talk. unlike you.
Last edited by pblack18707; 05/11/15 05:46 PM.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Vince may be the better QB from the measurables stand point, but he has had the same issues we're complaining about Manziel having in work ethic and commitment. I've never heard anyone question McCown's commitment or work ethic, and analysts seem to think he has what it takes between the ears which hasn't been said of Young. Obviously, McCown has to play like he did in Chicago for the FO's faith in him to be validated.
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Vince may be the better QB from the measurables stand point, but he has had the same issues we're complaining about Manziel having in work ethic and commitment. I've never heard anyone question McCown's commitment or work ethic, and analysts seem to think he has what it takes between the ears which hasn't been said of Young. Obviously, McCown has to play like he did in Chicago for the FO's faith in him to be validated. He's trolling. Don't make the same mistake I did in replying to him.
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McCown has to play like he did in Chicago for the FO's faith in him to be validated. did you watch the chicago games? you think there might be a reason he was benched?
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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McCown has to play like he did in Chicago for the FO's faith in him to be validated. did you watch the chicago games? you think there might be a reason he was benched? Yes, I've watched all the "film" on McCown that I could find. He protected the ball. He was benched because for some reason people think Cutler is a good QB. That and because they didn't want Smokin' Jay pouting on the sidelines and bumming lights. Smokin' Jay Meme Link
Last edited by GrimmBrown; 05/11/15 06:16 PM. Reason: added link in case someone had no idea what I was talking about
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ofcourse it isnt worth investigating.
Vince Young released by Cleveland Browns By Dan Hanzus Around the NFL Writer Published: May 12, 2014 at 01:23 p.m. Updated: May 12, 2014 at 03:45 p.m.
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being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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A couple other things that have gone unmentioned yet are equally as relevant are the facts that McCown's & Manziel's names both start with a "J", and that Josh McCown and Bryan Hoyer both have ten letters in their names.
JMHO Beyond that, both McCown's & Manziels's initials are JM...scary! If they have the same middle initial too, then I am going into hiding. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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A couple other things that have gone unmentioned yet are equally as relevant are the facts that McCown's & Manziel's names both start with a "J", and that Josh McCown and Bryan Hoyer both have ten letters in their names.
JMHO Beyond that, both McCown's & Manziels's initials are JM...scary! If they have the same middle initial too, then I am going into hiding. OMG, what if they get their initialed bathrobes confused? ...the horror, the horror... 
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3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
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ofcourse it isnt worth investigating.
Vince Young released by Cleveland Browns By Dan Hanzus Around the NFL Writer Published: May 12, 2014 at 01:23 p.m. Updated: May 12, 2014 at 03:45 p.m. Wasn't he released fairly soon after we signed him too? Yep. We signed him and Tyler Thigpen on the 1st of May, and cut Young on the 12th. Browns sign vet QBs Vince Young, Tyler Thigpen - NFL.com http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000345904/article/browns-sign-vet-qbs-vince-young-tyler-thigpenVince Young released by Cleveland Browns - NFL.com http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000349725/article/vince-young-released-by-cleveland-browns
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Why would Hoyer have been a better option? Look, I don't think Hoyer is a great qb. He might not even be a good qb. I do think he is better than Mccown for the following reasons: --Hoyer gets rid of the ball on time. McCown holds it. --Hoyer had the trust of his teammates and they performed better for him than any other qb over the last two years.
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you all think that somehow magically after 13 years in the league McCown is going to be something he has never been, oh that's right "IF".
yet you believe a career backup who's never played a full season can suddenly become a good QB? (Hoyer) you can play the IF game with him too. IF all of a sudden he becomes good enough to be a starter. IF all of a sudden he can make it so that NFL teams dont have tape on him, and shut him down and turn him in to a INT machine. same game. I think 9-6 makes him more then a if, but if away on the kool aid......
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you all think that somehow magically after 13 years in the league McCown is going to be something he has never been, oh that's right "IF".
yet you believe a career backup who's never played a full season can suddenly become a good QB? (Hoyer) you can play the IF game with him too. IF all of a sudden he becomes good enough to be a starter. IF all of a sudden he can make it so that NFL teams dont have tape on him, and shut him down and turn him in to a INT machine. same game. I think 9-6 makes him more then a if, but if away on the kool aid...... Does anyone know Vince Young's record?
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Vince Young would finish his Titans career with a 30-17 record (63.8%) over five years.[56] As a Titan, Young finished with a 75.4 QB rating, with 42 touchdown passes and 42 interceptions.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 193
Practice Squad
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Practice Squad
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 193 |
you all think that somehow magically after 13 years in the league McCown is going to be something he has never been, oh that's right "IF".
yet you believe a career backup who's never played a full season can suddenly become a good QB? (Hoyer) you can play the IF game with him too. IF all of a sudden he becomes good enough to be a starter. IF all of a sudden he can make it so that NFL teams dont have tape on him, and shut him down and turn him in to a INT machine. same game. I think 9-6 makes him more then a if, but if away on the kool aid...... no koolaid here. you provided the statement that people are relying on a bunch of "ifs" you think im a mccown fan? mccown doesnt have fans dude. my point is, you cant say mccown cant all of a sudden become something he has never been, but then act like a 31 yr old journeyman quarterback 1 year separated from an ACL injury, who has never been good enough to land a starting job and play a full season, can all of a sudden be a franchise QB. im not arguing that mccown is going to be a savior, but one year he played extremely well for the bears, then last year he sucked it up for tb. hoyer has been a backup for ever, then he came here, flashed, there was tape on him, then he went back to being a backup quality QB like hes been his entire career. either a player can be something he has never been, or he cant. dont say one can, and the other can. thats just biased and agenda driven. lets be serious here.
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 9,494
Hall of Famer
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OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 9,494 |
Does anyone know Vince Young's record?
Or did you not mean that kind of record? 30-21 in games it looks like he played the majority of. One of those wins he only threw 8 passes in '09 so not sure if he split time, but I gave him credit. One of those losses was his only playoff game, in '07.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Hoyer/McCown Debate and Scheme
Fit/Cohesion
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