DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Anti Islam rhetoric

The rich already live where their money isn't. If you have the money you will keep your assets in tax-protected offshore accounts. So in the event of a revolution you might lose your house but you'd just turn your Caribbean retirement home into your main home. The wealthy have been known to leave revolutions to save their skin. The nobility fled during the French revolution, the tories left during the American, etc.

I do agree with you about the funding one group to fight one or the other. That is what is happening right now. How do you think guys like Al Sharpton get their money?

My last name is anglicized from Irish Gaelic I'm mostly Irish/Scottish with (weirdly enough) a reasonable portion of blackfoot native american.



Good luck even mentioning Cromwells name in Ireland without getting a stiff boot to the arse... Irish/British relations are strained to this day. You can't even order a Black and Tan without turning an entire bar silent, even though it uses both Guinness Stout and Harp to make. Cromwell simply put was a war criminal. When the restoration occurred his grave was defiled and he was beheaded posthumously.



The entire new world was built on the atlantic slave trade. Per your link most of the slaves disembarked somewhere in the new world. That being said the British and French were the primarily importers of slaves. The USA actually banned the import of slaves in 1794. The theory at the time was that to stop slave imports would stop slavery eventually, without impacting the economy all at once.



I share that sentiment. I grew up in a trailer and later in a duplex in downtown Cleveland.

I'm a believer in the free market as the best system we have for economic mobility. You give someone a handout and you aren't improving their situation in a permanent way. A controlled market also doesn't encourage mobility. But a free market isn't just lack of regulation and red tape. A true free market is meritous, where the best execution shines through. And we still have biases that work against that. If a hiring manager is bigoted in any way, whether against gender, race, ability etc, it undermines the free market. In an ideal system those hiring managers would be snuffed out. They would be undermining the company in the pursuit of the best person for the job. But we don't do that. Every day we let biases go untouched. Don't hire someone who is black because it would clash with the office culture. Don't hire a woman because she might have kids soon. Don't hire a guy in his 50s because he's old and out of touch. This is what I'm talking about when it comes to institutionalized racism and bigotry. It doesn't have to be state sponsored. You even felt it yourself, saying because of where you lived people treated you differently.

We got a bit off track perhaps in discussing the finer points of the irish vs. african american slavery in colonial america, but I enjoyed the discussion and learned a great deal too

Slavery was definately a dark time in the old world. I just don't think its fair to ignore what happened or belittle what happened to the irish.

What's really sad is that India and Pakistan still have open slavery. India is not a third world country and for them to still be practicing slavery is this day and age is much worse.

Then again we still have slavery in the USA. Those little asian massage parlors are not being worked by women who want to be there and most are under lock and key after hours.

The "rich" you describe will always live segregated from the rest of us. But they make up a small percentage of the population. The majority of the population is your average middle class working family. Some do better than others and have been able to move to nicer homes, some just get by.

Money, or lack of money, may prohibit someone from packing up and moving, but then it's not as easy as deciding one is moving and just doing it for probably 80-90% of American families.

You are absolutely correct. Thats is why a huge part of the Koran is the old testament.

The stuff Ytown is talking about is religion. Religion is man made, religion is not God.

There is one God, and one God only. Different scriptures were created by man to attempt to explain this God, but its still the same God

Absolutely. The average household income of the 1% is over 1 million dollars. This is just what you're accruing yearly, not what is already in the bank. What I was saying is that if say, Occupy Wall Street got more organized and actually somehow managed to cause a revolt in this country, the 1% they hate would just up and leave before it got to be their head in the guillotine, or move all of their money outside the US. Meaning when it's time to pay the piper, the new regime would go after the middle class because hey, you're now upper class!

When the french revolution happened most of the nobility fled the country. And you might say well, that was because of the guillotine, not money. The french did it again 2 years ago, with their 75% tax rate. The rich didn't leave because it was non-violent, but France did not have new money coming in for almost 2 years. Unemployment kept going up and business was stagnate. France quietly let it go a few months ago, the experiment on super-taxing the wealthy left to failure.

Sorry, but I disagree.

I have a man who fathered me, and you have a different man who fathered you.

We may each call our father "Dad", but that does not make him the same person.

The Judeo-Christian God is not the same being, in character, or morality, as the Islamic Allah. They are really not even close. They might be called by the same name, but they are not the same being, any more than the Matt who played a couple of games for the Vikings last year is the same Matt as the one who led the league in passing in Atlanta. Arizona and New Orleans each had a QB names "Drew", but Stanton is not Brees.

If blue and red had the same name, would they then be the same color? If we called but the air above us and the dirt below us by the same name, would they then, in fact, be the same?

Of course not.

In the same way, neither are the Judeo-Christian God and the Islamic Allah the same being.

So are you saying there is more than one God?

Your logic on fathers is flawed.

If we shared the same father(God)

But you grow up in Cali and you call your father Bill, and say he is such and such and such.

But I grow up in NY, and call our father Greg, and say such and such and such differently than you do.

He is still the same father, isnt he??

Your characteristics of God are based on Christianity's writings. Islams characteristics of God are based on Islamic writings(Muhammed). Not debating which is correct and which is incorrect because that has nothing to do with the topic. Its still the same being, the same God. Even if one, or both of the religions is incorrect in their path to God

Even Popes have said it's the same God.

And they have way more understanding about the bible and such than you could even hope to imagine.

God is the same person, just worshipped differently.

your analogies never work. just stop it.

Unless God has a split personality Allah is not Yahweh. They don't act the same at all. The Muslim bible goes and flat out changes or reverses things from the old testament instead of keeping the old testament sacred. It has Allah committing acts the are more like something the Devil would do. Sorry, but anyone who actually reads and compares will easily see they are not even close to being the same entity. It's the number one reason I believe the Muslim faith to be an act of perversion of the faith and mohammed to be a false prophet because you will know a man by his works.

I want to be clear on this though. Just because I view the Muslim faith to be a perverted text does not mean I view the Muslim people as some kind of evil. I don't. I do view them as a people who have been led down the wrong path though and since their perverted bible/torah tells them it's ok to lie to me I don't trust them very much.

OK, let me try a different tact here.

My father is my father, I can call someone else my father, but that does not make him so. Only one man fathered me.

Other people can claim that my father is their father also, but the claim does not make it so.

The God of Abraham is completely different in character than the Allah of Islam. Completely.

If God cannot lie, then He cannot be the one called Allah by Muslims. The one called Allah by Muslims can lie. The god of Islam is capricious. He does not keep his word. His character is completely different from the God of the Bible.

The similarities between the God of the Bible, and the Islamic Allah, are greater than the similarities. God has a specific character. He cannot sin, for example. Sin is absolutely abhorrent to Him. However, Allah is the creator of sin, according to the Koran. This alone makes it impossible for God and the Islamic Allah to be the same entity. If God hates sin with His entire being, then He cannot be Allah, no matter what other supposed similarities may exist. The Bible says that Jesus is the Son f God, but the Allah of the Koran disagrees, and says that He was the Messiah, but 100% human. (no divinity) The Koran also says that Jesus did not die on the cross, but that Allah substituted someone else on the cross, made that person look like Jesus, and had that person suffer and die in Jesus' place, while Allah took Jesus, fully alive, into heaven. The Bible, of course, completely disagrees.

The Bible is the Word of God, and the Koran is supposed to be the word of Allah. Both cannot be true, as they disagree on major structural points. If they cannot both be true, and if we accept that God does not lie, then the inspiration between both Books cannot be the same, and Allah cannot be the God of Abraham, David, and Jesus.

Islam is very close to Christianity in manyw ays, but the differences are striking.

Using your example:



Now let's add in that one of these fathers is Black, and one is White. One is 6'5", and the other is only 3' tall. One weighs 280#, and the other is 110#. One is a very religious, pious man, and the other is a secularist Atheist who mocks the very idea of God. One man is a President of a major corporation, and the other works as a janitor. One man had long flowing hair of his own, and the other has been bald since birth. Doing a genetic test, they have 2 completely different sets of DNA structures. They have different fingerprints.

Given this, is your father the same as my father? Can they be? How can they be?

God has completely different character than Allah. God has completely different fingerprints than Allah. They are nothing alike, other than sometimes being called by the same name. They cannot be the same entity.

One other thing ..... Islam is just close enough to Judaism and Christianity to make people think that the God of the Bible, and the god of the Koran are the same, yet are so horribly far apart as to lead people astray.

Some say that the greatest trick the devil ever perpetrated is to convince people that he does not exist. I disagree. I think that convincing so many that the God of the Bible, and Allah of the Koran are the same entity is, by far, a greater trick, and one likely to lead so many more astray, and to judgement.

Uhhh, if you look at the bible, God ain't exactly nice to people either.

According to your bible, God killed off everybody but Noah and his family.

i'd say thats pretty perverted. and that's pretty devilish.

"hey guys!! ignore the violence and massacres my God have done, condemn this other religion instead"

you and YTown always wanna talk about people being divided, and then you go and say some nonsense like this post.

The pope said the religions worship the same God.

Ytown, you not convincing anybody, and you won't. cause your flat out wrong.

Swish

I don't have much respect for the Pope either. The catholic church has been corrupted for so long that it's more of a political office than anything close to being a holy man. These days the Catholic Church just tells people what they want to hear to make everyone feel warm and fuzzy and included. It's been a long time since they had a real Pope IMHO or council of cardinals. My father is catholic so I had no choice but to put up with a lot of their idolatry and nonsense where they think they can buy or earn forgiveness.

A priest can't forgive you, only Jesus can. You don't earn forgiveness because nothing you will ever do in life will earn you eternal life with God except asking Jesus to forgive you and accepting him. Period.

except regardless of what you say, the pope has a better understanding than you could hope to imagine.

all these different denominations of christianity, yet you and Ytown are gonna sit here and say the other religion is wrong?

y'all can't even agree on the same crap with regards to one religion.

I don't follow the Pope, and I have major problems with Catholicism as well. His answer was more political than scriptural.

The Pope is wrong in this regard, and I have explained why. You then come back with "you're wrong", but with no refutation of my facts. You are neither Christian nor Muslim, yet you claim intimate knowledge enough to make the decision as to whether the God of the Bible, and Allah of the Koran are the same.

If you want to prove me wrong, then prove what I have said is wrong ..... not just "You're wrong". Prove it.

I'll wait.

That's exactly how I interpreted it as well. Ok, now I'll back into hiding regarding this topic.

That's why there is a huge difference between being spiritual and being religious.

God had a death sentence for the absolutely sinful way the people of Noah's time went, and He, as God, exercised His right to Justice and Judgement. That is not evil.

Evil would be saying "If you do this, you'll be just fine", and then wiping them out. That is not what happened though. God gave plenty of warning. (though that is the kind of thing the Allah of Islam would do)

You're free to think what you want Swish but I have zero faith in the Pope. My faith is in God and I can read the Bible and have been my entire life. I have been to seminary.

I decided a long time ago that most religions are corrupt and filled with false ideologies that are based more on the customs of people than on what the Bible actually teaches. I go strictly on what is in the Bible. Nothing more and nothing less.

If the Pope did that you would not have so much sin rampant in the Catholic priesthood. To me the Pope is just a politician and politicians make their living by lying.

Once more, because someone claims to be God does not make him so. The devil could call himself god, and maybe even do a reasonable impression, but he would not be God, no matter how hard he tried.

Christianity and the Bible, and Islam and the Koran, disagree on many, major, structural points. One says black, and the other white. Both cannot be true, and if both cannot be true, than neither can the inspiration behind them both be true. If God cannot lie, then He cannot be the God behind both Books, and both religions. (and I don't care what the Pope says, for this very reason)

I wonder how many people realize that there was a time when the Pope was considered infallible. There was a Pope who sold "indulgences" at one time .... allowing, for example, a man to "prepay" for his sins. He could buy an indulgence, and then go cheat on his wife, and supposedly God would just say that was OK. I have a long list of differences with the Catholic religion. I disagree with their position on penance, and find it to be a practice that goes in opposition to the teachings of the Bible, this being that sin is not forgiven by acts, but rather through the blood of Jesus Christ. The list goes on, so everyone will forgive me if I do not feel compelled to blindly follow what the Pope says.

once again, there's so many denominations of christianity, yall cant even interpret the text the same way, yet you think you're smart enough to say the the God's aren't the same.

you're right, i'm neither. But i have the fortune on being raised in both.

The bible and Koran is nothing but a collection of stories.

but here, let me bust your bubble one more time, after that i'm done.

both religions, God sent prophets such as Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Joseph, John the Baptist, Jesus and others

That right THERE already proves your nonsense to be, well, nonsense. It have to be a straight up coincidence that both religions got the same freaking prophets, yet they DIDN'T come from the same place or time frame.

the Koran follows a lot of the Old Testament ways, which is YOUR FREAKING BIBLE.

you're gonna tell me again that you aren't worshipping the same God as them?

and then here's the kicker. I loved how you didn't respond to my other post, about how your confusing yourself.

Islam has more in common with Judaism than Christianity, as BOTH do even believe that Jesus was the son of God.

yet you sat there and tried to tell us that Judaism and Christianity are similar? you don't even know what you're talking about, as Judaism goes against what YOU BELIEVE IN.

So don't sit here and try to say that Islam doesn't worship the same God, yet Jewish and christianity does, when they don't even believe Jesus was the son of God, yet you think THEY worship the same God as you?

Thats being a hypocrite. And i'm calling you out on your bias, because the only difference, as both are in the middle east, is one is Israeli, the other is Arab.

Then, here's the BIG finale:

Muslims FOLLOW THE TEACHING OF JESUS.

so don't sit here and try to say it's not the same God.

you're wrong. you know you're wrong. give it up.

See, thats the benefit of being from a christian mother and a muslim father and family from a muslim Country. I got exposed to both ends of the bullcrap.

and for the FINAL time. guess what christians in the middle east call God when they go to church? Allah.

You just been schooled. have a nice day.

No, THEY ABSOLUTELY DO NOT, (since we're yelling)

Muslims believe in a man called Jesus, who was born of mortal man and mortal woman, 100% human, who lived on earth. He was, according to the Koran, the Messiah, but not the Son of God. According to the Koran, Jesus never went to the cross, instead being taken by Allah, fully alive and unharmed, into heaven.

Christians, on the other hand, believe that Jesus is the Son of God, born to a virgin mother, implanted by the seed of God by the Holy Spirit. Christians believe that Jesus, the man, was fully man, as well as fully God. The Bible teaches us that Jesus came to earth,. lived a perfect life, and then sacrificed His life to dsave all who would believe in Him.

The Koran is nothing even close, other than the fact that He lived. The Islamic position, if true, would completely undermine the Christian religion, because it calls the very basis of Christianity a lie by rejecting the divinity of Jesus.

The names are the same, but the message is completely different. Both cannot be true. If one accepts that the Christian God is as He claims to be, then Allah of Islam cannot be God in any manner. If one says that Allah is true, then the Christian God is a lie. Both cannot be true, because their positions are diametrically opposed.

I do agree with you that there are a huge number of denominations of Christianity, just as there are 2 major sects of Islam. I have looked at many of the denominations, and cannot agree with those who take positions contrary to the Bible.

Anyway, sorry to bust your bubble, and your argument about Jesus. It is understandable though, because you obviously have only a very limited knowledge of either religion, as they used to say, "knowing just enough to be dangerous".

i got more understanding of both religions than you do of just one.

I dare you to come to Turkey and say that nonsense that they don't follow the teaching's of all the prophets, including jesus.

i like how you aint had crap to say when i called you out on your Judaism nonsense as well. can't even convince yourself.

the proof is there. you just too stubborn to see it. i got nothing left for you. you can live in your ignorance all you like, makes no difference to me.

we're done here.

The Koran was written centuries after Christ. It was written at a time when Christianity was a well established religion, as was Judaism. Throughout the part of the world in which Muhammad lived, he would have absorbed a lot of the teachings of both. As he wanted to create his own and new religion, he took what he knew of both religions, and assembled a rewriting of history, with just enough in common with the other 2 religions as to not be rejected out of hand. The closer you can stay to what others accept as true, at least on a cursory level, the easier it is to gain acceptance.

It is my belief that Muhammad wanted a religion for the Arab speaking people, so he created one, combining what he had been exposed to in both Jewish and Christian worship services he had observed. He, however made mistakes that "Allah" would never make. His Koran insists, for example, that Christians are a polygamist religion, and worship "3 gods". (and he has said, in the Koran, that these 3 are God, Jesus, and Mary) This is simply not true, as the trinity that Christians worship is God, Jesus, the son, and the Holy Spirit of God ..... a aspects of the same God. The Koran makes many other such mistakes, not about the creation of the universe, or other things we simply cannot 100% prove one way or the other, but in stuff that was commonly known in the time of Muhammad. He makes major mistakes that most moderately capable students of the religions of the time would never make.

You say that you were raised in both religions, but, and pardon me because this is not meant as an insult, but rather an observation, you obviously did not do any study of either. You make simple mistakes that people with a basic understanding of both religions would never make. You show a complete lack of understanding of Christianity, and make assumptions rather than actually looking to what the Bible says.

I encourage those who question what I have said to look them up for themselves. There are plenty of sources for such information available online, or at the local library.

As far as Judaism, both Christianity and Judaism largely share the same Holy Books up to the New Testament. It is at the time of Jesus that the 2 religions separate. Christians believe that Jesus was the Messiah, while Jews do not. Oddly enough, Muslims also believe that Jesus was the Messiah, but not the Son of God as Christians do. Jews believe that the Messiah has not yet come to earth.

So, for clarification, the 3 religions see Jesus as follows:

Jews: Jesus was a man.
Muslims: Jesus was a man, and also the Messiah.
Christians: Jesus was a man, and is the Son of God, and is the Messiah.


Judaism is the core religion, and Christianity is an extension of the Jewish religion. Christianity shares the same beliefs for events prior to the time of Jesus with Judaism. However, Christianity does not try to rewrite the Jewish history. It accepts the truth of the Jewish books of the Bible without alteration or dispute. The Koran does not, and it rewrites things from the Torah and other Jewish books, along with the Bible, to its own purposes.

This I doubt. I do not claim to be an expert in every religion, but I do have a better than functional knowledge of Islam, and a fairly solid understanding of the Bible. Your posts do show a basic understanding of the surface of the religions, but also show a lack of any truly in depth understanding. It is like a man who sees a cashier in a store once a month saying "I know her". You may know the surface, the person as an employee of a place you go to once in a while, but lack any knowledge of what truly makes up the person within. You see the surface, but nothing of what makes that person who they are. This is how I see you with regard to the Bible, and even the Koran. I have truly seen noting in your posts that shows anything beyond a cursory knowledge of any religion.

This is not uncommon at all, in fact many bigger cities and even small towns have some demarcation line in them, usually an interstate, a set of railroad tracks, or a small river... that physically separate classes of people.


Sounds like we had the same reaction to the article... I just wanted you to read it before posting my own opinion... this one line jumped out at me the most...

"The comments were noxious, offensive, and have no place in civil discourse," said Duke Vice President for Public Affairs and Government Affairs Michael Schoenfeld.

Just because something might be offensive to somebody is not a reason it can't be part of a civil discourse, and I think that is where the disconnect is.... the comments have EVERY place in civil discourse, they seem to be the foundation for a reasonable discussion. People can agree or disagree and I can see room for both.... but the phrase "civil discourse" has become one of those code words which means, "agree with the general consensus or you are a racist/bigot." Which is supported by this line in his follow-up to the piece... "The issue is whether my comments were largely accurate. In writing me, no one has said I was wrong, just racist."

I have said before and will say again, political correctness (for lack of a better term) has hidden a lot of racism, is has given the perception that things were better than they were... and has actually slowed the progress that was being made in race relations...

I am happy to see you feisty and engaged in the discussion but I am afraid going to church with your family doesn't do much for your edification, especially in this day and age.

For a moment remove all the emotion and treat it like a case study being investigated by a detective. On one side you list similarities and the other side you list the differences. This is a simple and logical way to handle an issue like this. You have to remove the emotion.

I am not going to make out that long list because there would be pages of it and no matter what I put out here you will probably say I am biased so I think it's best you do it yourself.

I would simply say this though. If muslims view Jesus as a prophet then why do they not follow his teachings? If they view him as a messiah then why do they ignore his message?

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

He doesn't say follow that man Mahamed that comes later on. He says point blank that if you want to get to heaven then you have to go through him.

Instead, with Muslims you have this guy who almost 600 years later comes and says, "Hey, guys Jesus got it all wrong. He was just a normal man like me and you. He has some great things to say but now you need to listen to me instead because my God says so. BTW the Bible those jews use that we hate so much is corrupted and full of mistakes to discriminate against us and oppress us. I'll just go ahead and fix that so don't worry about it. Just ignore all that noise and follow what I teach instead. Also, BTW you can lie, cheat, steal, and murder anyone not on our side and it's ok. Just don't do those things to your fellow Muslims."

The devil is the Father of Lies. The best way to lie is to sprinkle it it with just enough truth to cause doubt about what the truth is. Then you get a 50-50 chance at getting a sale. As a former sales manager it's so obvious to me what Muhammad has done. I mean it's so blatant.

Logically speaking the Jewish tradition came first. It has to be the foundation you start from. Christians follow it right up until the Birth of Christ. Almost all of the first Christians were Jews also. They honor it and keep it holy and unchanged. Muslim view it as corrupt and unreliable. Muslims have changed the Holy text to suit their own agendas all at the behest of Mohammed.

That is a MAJOR divide. It's not some small difference. Once views the Word of God as holy and the other views it as corrupted and unreliable. It's not like this was new though. Crackpot prophets had been popping up everywhere. It was one of the reasons for the council of nicene a few hundred years earlier. Men kept coming out of the woodwork with the latest and greatest prophecy or new book for all to view as holy(and of course get set for life).

The council of Nicene gets a lot of flak from Mohamed but in reality is was a truly awesome event. Just imagine if you took all the denominations whether catholic, baptists, etc and put all of the very best priests and scholars of their day into one room and asked them to wade through and agree upon which of the hundreds of religious texts out there were genuine and which ones were just made by some weird crackpot. These were not cronies. These were the very elite and best of their time. Even Socrates was amazed by such an event as he observed what he could with his awesome mind.

The council created a standard to hold the religious text to that made very good sense. Feel free to look it up. I don't agree with everything they did to establish a church afterwards but having read some of those books left out I can say I don't disagree with their choices. The book of enoch would probably be my one exception though since it was routinely referred to by paul and the other apostles. I certainly don't think anything major was left out. I think they did a good job. Perfect? Probably not but still pretty darn good for something organized by men. Certainly not enough to Justify Mohammed creating a whole new religion and turning God into some bipolar nutjob who acts more like the devil than the devil does.

Anyways mate I am exhausted after typing all that so forgive me if I didn't answer every point you had. I'm off to get some sleep.

You are arguing the differences in the religions.

That is not the debate, we know the differences in the religions.

That doesn't change the fact that it is the same God.

Your read text even confirms that. The path to God is through Jesus, in the eyes of Christianity. The path to THE ONE GOD. So yes you as a Christian(I am too) could argue that the path to GOd is through Christianity and not through Islam, but even if their path to God is incorrect, it is still the same God.

Don't worry man. Its not going to change your belief that they are going to burn in Hell.

KING

Using that logic, any religion that is monotheistic worships the same God, because there is only one God.

If a man worships a light bulb, and calls it "God", and says that it is the only, one true God, then would that be the same God as Christian worship? If not, then why not?

I get your point that if there is only one God, then anyone who says that they worship one God does, on the surface, appear to worship the same God as others ..... but this is simply not possible when you take into account the nature of God, and compare that to the nature of the Islamic Allah. The 2 cannot be the same being. They cannot be the same being if they are completely different in every way except for being called "Almighty", and their name. They have more differences than they do characteristics in common. They worship "one god", but it is not the Christian God, but rather a man made (I strongly believe, for many reasons) Allah, who has a character not demonstrated by God at any point in the Bible, and which runs contrary to what God Himself had said about Himself.

A movie star and his stunt man are not the same person. An understudy, despite having the same lines, and the same role as the star, is not the star. Neither is Allah of Islam the Christian God. The Islamic Allah is a capricious being, who does not follow his own rules. Maybe Muhammad intended for it to be the same God as Christians and Jews worship when he created his Koran, but you cannot completely change the character of God and say that your new creation is the same entity.

If a religion came along and worshiped a "god" who shared the characteristics of Satan, but called this entity "God", would you say that this "god" and the Christian God are the same being? Of course not.

Islam contradicts Christianity. Islam contradicts Judaism. It changes who God is. It changes the very character of God.

Christianity never contradicts Judaism. Rather, Christianity fulfills Judaism. It takes the entirety of Jewish history, and brings it to fruition in the form of Jesus Christ. Not once does Christianity change the very character of God. Indeed, it takes everything that God said He would do, and shows how He did so in the form of Jesus Christ. They both worship the same God though.

Islam does not. They worship what they consider to be "one true God", but it is not the same God Christians and Jews worship in any meaningful way beyond the idea that their Allah is the only God.

Jews believe in one Holy God. Christians believe in the same God, and everything written about Him, verbatim, up to the end of the Old Testament. To a Jew, (as far as I know, and someone can correct me if I am mistaken) God's
communication with mankind ended with the book of Malachi. Christians believe that God's communication with mankind ended there as well, until the coming of Jesus Christ. Muslims believe that God communicated with mankind through Muhammad, and that they are the "final revelation" of Allah to mankind.

As one more example of the differences. Jesus said that there will not be marriage in heaven, and thus, no sex. In the Koran, Jesus said that men who are faithful will have virgins, and sex. There are so many differences between the God of Abraham, and the Allah of Islam.

I do believe that Muhammad wanted to worship "one God", and that ht wanted to create a religion that would be the God of the people of the region in which he lived. I believe that he had a cursory knowledge of Judaism and Christianity, as well as other smaller religions of the area and time, but no in depth knowledge of any of them. I do think that he believed in monotheism strongly, but also that he had little idea what he was talking about with regards to other religions. His claim that "Allah" told him that the Trinity that Christians worship was actually 3 different Gods. That is not what Christians worship. Further, his "God" told him that Christians worship the Trinity of God, Jesus, and Mary, as Gods. Several times, the Koran says "Not 3, 1", and mentions Jesus and Mary as the other 2 Gods, instead of the Trinity being God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, a Trinity of God's Holy presence, 3 aspects who are 1 God.

This mistake is seen in Sura 5: 116-117. (and yes, I did have to look up the exact verse)

This is what the Koran says about the Trinity:

And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: “Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?” He will say: “Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: ‘Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.’ And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things.”

Would the Christian God make such a mistake? Of course not. If He would not, then He and the Islamic Allah cannot be the same being. They can have similar names, and their believers can claim certain things about them, but that does not make them the same. How can they be?

Can the same God, who Jews and Christians consider perfect make this kind of simple mistake? There is no debate that this is a mistake by "Allah", as the Koran is considered perfect, and the same in heaven as it is on earth.

Are God and the Islamic Allah the same being? No, they are not. They share a name, and come characteristics, but they are not the same being.

I think kids should be challenged and offended in college. You can't say something is wrong because it offends you. You need to defend your position. The majority of US colleges restrict free speech in a way that the government cannot. Everyone is offended all the time and that is fine! That's a good thing! To ensure no one is offended would be to get rid of constitutional free speech.

College should be a place of learning, and you know what, sometimes you will in the course of learning come up on a homophobic statement, or racist statement, or what have you. And from there you work to deconstruct how you got there. But in an attempt to bow at the altar of diversity we do away with all of that because it might offend the diverse crowd we are trying to attract to said university.

Gage I agree. I'd rather people be blunt and honest then stepping on eggshells to avoid offending someone. I despise the politically correct agenda of making people too scared to talk.

Say what you mean, and mean what you say Pa always told me =)

God is God, no man can change what he is. Anyone can write anything, that does not change who the one God is.

No but they can corrupt his message and how people perceive him to the point they will not find salvation which is a travesty. Muslims are no better off than atheists because they refuse to accept jesus as forgiveness of their sins.

You're going to believe Jesus or Mohammed. I will choose Jesus every time since Mohammed thinks its ok to lie.

"my religion is the right one"

"nah, my religion is the right one".


keep the divide going guys. religion has been so peaceful over the course of history.....oh wait.

Where souls are lost for all of eternity vs being comfortable and quiet for a few piddly years.

"my religion is the right one"

"nah, my religion is the right one".

*Sigh* That is my point. They try to change who God is .... but that cannot be done. The Koran says that the Islamic Allah is way too many things that the Christian God has never been for the Islamic Allah to be God.