DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Why Donte Whitner is so optimistic about the Browns

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The opening day loss to Pittsburgh I would chalk up to our defense falling behind 27-3 at halftime. Our offense scored 24 points like it was nothing in the second half, so I don't think our WR's were to blame for that loss...

The Baltimore loss (first game) we probably could have used a big play receiver, but I blame that more on mistakes than I would on a lack of WR's. Didn't we miss a FG and then have one blocked later on after being on the 10 yard line? Yeah, that was pretty brutal. Then Haden gave up the deep bomb late to Steve Smith.

Jacksonville, Houston and Buffalo. Those losses I'm laying on our poor offensive line play. We couldn't run the football in either game, and we could barely pass protect. Made it hard to get anything going on offense, and we all saw how Hoyer played with no running game. BAD.

The Indianapolis game to me, is ALL on Brian Hoyer. The defense kept us in it, and even scored twice, and the offensive line showed up. If memory serves me correctly we had 14 offensive possessions and he lead one TD drive, and one FG drive (after an INT set him up inside the Colts 30 yard line). Hoyer couldn't hit the broad side of a barn this game. His mechanics and accuracy were junk, beyond junk actually.

Do we even count the Bengals, Panthers or Ravens games? At this point it was lame duck season for a lot of the players...

Point being. We could have used Gordon all year (Cameron too) but were bad WR's REALLY the reason we lost 9 games? I don't really think so...

IMO.

please stop bring up that Indy game.

That was possibly the most infuriating QB play I have ever seen from a Browns QB. just gave us absolutely nothing.

I agree. I will say this too. Hoyer played like warn vomit in the Indy game but when Hoyer had us ready to go in Cameron ran the wrong route leading to the int and that in the end was the difference in the game. Point blank it was a team effort.

Also everyone and his brother knew that Shanny would stay with the run game, almost no matter what. It put Hoyer in a lot of tough tough down and distance situations where typically all QB's find tough sledding.

I still am waiting for Tab to tell us what adjustments were made to our game plans when mack went down because I saw nothing different.....

all 5 gordon played.

No, I brought up the successes. I thought that was clear, but I guess not.




Yeah, throwing tons of money at free agents has proved to be a successful method of building a team in the NFL. I would argue that pieces that fit are as important, or even more important, than raw talent.


LOL Really? Most thought that his hamstrings were hamburger, and that the Browns would be lucky to get a few games out of him. I am curious as to what teams were lined up to sign him?

Hawkins was a solid signing, but one that we overpaid for. However, given the state of our WR corps from the prior year, it was a move we had to make. Our WR corps was in shambles in 2013, with the suspended Josh Gordon being the only real contributor among the group. Farmer rebuilt the WR corps with Austin, Hawkins, and Gabriel being the main pieces, along with Dray as a contributor at the TE position.



I think that Johnson was a case of the right player finding the right team. He was 4th on our depth chart, at best. We had Gordon coming back. Losing Johnson was not a huge loss at that time.



Yep, a QB who has been subject of more from ofice intrigue than any I can remember, ever, has not yet worked out. It remains to be seen how he turns out, and I am not willing to write a QB off after 7 quarters of football. He has had isues, and I have major concerns about whether or not he will be mentally strong enough to handle being an NFL QB. Manziel was not my choice at QB, but I felt that he was a worthwhile risk at the time. Any QB in last year's draft was a case of throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what stuck. So far, some appear to be ahead, and some behind, but no one can say for sure about any of them.



Joe Bitonio
Miles Austin
Andrew Hawkins
Terrence West
Isaiah Crowell
Jim Dray


Yeah, he flopped on the offensive side of the ball.



I don't know if you know this or not, but most GMs, coaches, and pretty much any front office position in the NFL have experience primarily on one side of the ball, or the other. I know that's shocking .... but it's true. Very few have played, or coached, both sides of the ball.

I am largely satisfied with the job Farmer has done so far. In year one, he made massive changes to the roster, and improved a team that won 4 or 5 games every year since what... 2007(?) and helped them win 7 games. They were in very good position to win more games until injuries hit.

Last year we added what players .....?

QB: Shaw and Manziel
RB: West, Crowell, and Winston
TE: Dray
OL: Bitonio
WR: Austin, Hawkins, and Smith
LB: Solomon, Dansby, and Kirksey
DB: Whitner, Gilbert, Desir, and Nelson

That is 17 players who played and contributed to this team last year. Most did a very good job.

This team was a wreck at a lot of positions when Farmer took over.

What did we have at WR? RB? ILB? These units were completely decimated. He rebuilt them from scratch.

Now we enter year2 under Farmer and Pettine, and the design of the team is taking shape. We are going to be a power run team, with a great defense. We will have the QB be part of the offense, but but not the player we build the offense upon. In many ways, we are following the Seahawks' model, almost to a tee. The Seahawks build a team based on defense, and running the ball. They built strong lines. Their secondary is exceptional. They looked at the WR position almost as an accessory, and addressed the QB position almost as an afterthought. Their original plan was bringing in Flynn. Remember him. He was a bum when playing for anyone except Green Bay. They got really lucky when Wilson fell to them in the 4th round. It is not often that a team has a franchise level QB fall into their hands like that. However, their whole plan was to be a run centered, defensive team. This is what we are doing here. Frankly, I like that plan.

How was Ray Farmer supposed to get free agents to WANT to play here? The only option to get guys like Julius Thomas or Jeremy Maclin in the door would have been to throw record type contracts at there feet, which would have been a really bone head move. I think the Browns had guys they were interested in, but the feeling(s) was not mutual in a lot of cases. Just a hunch though. It's also not like he didn't try and fix the QB situation. We ALL read the articles that he offered a 1st round pick for Bradford, and 2x 1st round picks for Mariota. It's Cleveland, and sometimes (or often) things don't work out in our favor.

lol, pretty much

Could've said the same thing about Ozzie after he drafted Boller.



Some fans need to realize that Ozzie was a TE....and what Ozzie's experience level is playing on the defensive side of the ball....Zero!!!!!

Or heck....Ernie Accorsi didn't even play football, guy has no experience on either side!


The point is, it happens. Just like everyone is raising hell about 1st round picks. Yes they are important, but if you look at the playoff teams, really the only big impact players are the 1st round Qb's (Cam, Big Ben, Luck, Peyton). Most of the 1st round picks of those teams were mostly just contributors or less, not premier players.

*spelling edit*

Tashaun Gipson had to notice when Browns added salary with Andy Lee

It's a safe bet that one person who definitely noticed that the Cleveland Browns were willing to add another $1.5 million to their budget for a punter was free safety Tashaun Gipson.

It was a tender offer to Gipson that saved the Browns just short of $1 million that has him working on his own while his teammates go through offseason workouts.

How this washes out remains to be seen, but adding an extra $1.5 million for Andy Lee, a punter, is the type of thing that make Pro Bowl safeties and their representatives dig in.

These are the types of situations that lead to players talking about being treated with respect, and they have the potential to be problematic depending on how they’re handled.

The Browns had a very good and dependable punter in Spencer Lanning, but chose to make the first trade for a punter in the NFL in 10 years -- and add Lee -- a very, very good punter -- to the payroll

The background on Gipson is well known. He was an undrafted free agent who worked his way to the starting lineup and then the Pro Bowl last season -- even though his season ended after 11 games with a knee injury that did not require surgery.

Gipson became a restricted free agent when the season ended. The Browns had the right to tender an offer to Gipson that would allow them to match any contract he signed or receive compensation if he left. The compensation depended on the tender offer.

The Browns could have offered a first-round tender on Gipson, but they chose a second-round tender -- which saved them just less than $1 million and had Gipson expressing disappointment on Twitter immediately after.

Talks to negotiate a long-term deal have not been fruitful, and Gipson remains unsigned. Because he has not signed, he does not have to report for any Browns duties and cannot be fined for missing them.

The Browns and Gipson have less than two months to work out a long-term deal to bring Gipson into training camp. Gipson can also sign the tender, play for a season and become a free agent. The Browns have the right to drastically cut Gipson's salary, but that would be a foolish decision.

Fans get turned off by contract talks, and if the Browns and Gipson work out a long-term deal this will all be forgotten. It could happen any day.

But it’s still hard not to think this situation could easily have been avoided.

The Browns had plenty of cap space when they made the tender offer to Gipson, but chose the lower-round tender. It’s not unlike the situation they are staring at with center Alex Mack. Instead of franchising Mack, Ray Farmer gave Mack the transition tag. The Browns quickly matched Jacksonville’s offer to Mack, but in doing so had to swallow the fact Mack can opt out after this season and become a free agent.

By transitioning Mack, the Browns ceded some control to another team regarding their player.

By tendering Gipson the second-round offer, they empowered his anger.

At the time, it seemed inevitable the team would work out a long-term deal because who wouldn’t work out a deal with a Pro Bowl safety who epitomized the team’s goal principles and attitude.

That hasn’t happened. And it's at least a concern at this point.

Complicating the situation is that every move the team makes has to be noticed by Gipson and his camp. When players talk about loyalty not being a two-way street, it refers to situations like this where the Browns:

Saved $998,000 by offering Gipson a second-round tender.

Guaranteed 36-year-old quarterback Josh McCown $6.45 million.

Guaranteed 30-year-old receiver Dwayne Bowe $10 million.

Guaranteed defensive tackle John Hughes $3.56 million.

Guaranteed 32-year-old cornerback Tramon Williams $10 million.

Heck, the Browns gave tight end Rob Housler a $750,000 signing bonus.

Nothing against those guys, and Gipson no doubt does not begrudge them getting paid.

But to think he doesn’t notice ... well, that’s naive.

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...y-with-andy-lee

I think this article deserves its own thread. It's an extremely important matter and the Browns would be idiotic to alienate this guy and end up losing him.

So..........what do you think, pblack? Want to start a new thread about Gipson and put this article in it?

This is one of most important issues w/the Browns.

or put it in an already existing Gipson thread, which does exist.

go ahead. i didnt see it

true enough. but i was thinking about the secondary. everyone saying how great it is. but who knows how Gipson is going to be. might be pissed off? skrine our other starter is gone and replaced with a 32 year old CB on his way down.

"
The Browns hope the nine-year veteran will be re-energized coming off a season in which he allowed 10 touchdown passes, according to ProFootballFocus.com, and saw opposing quarterbacks record a 106.5 passer rating against him"

and then there is K'Waun Williams. didnt he have two concussions last year not to mention hammy problems?

I agree with this 100% and mentioned it several days ago in another thread.

I think that Farmer's handling of our own FAs is the biggest notch in his "cons" column.

"Go find the market and get back to me." That is a complete slap in the face to a player you raised, asked to perform for you, then turn your back on when it's your (the team's) turn to do your part.

And I thought we were trying to change the culture here? How about we start with rewarding your best players? Who gives two flying you know what's how other teams value him? How do you, Farmer, value a guy who has played at a Pro Bowl level, wants to be here, and wants to help you turn this around? A guy liked and respected by his teammates and who is already ingrained in the system. I would think that is worth more than "market."

To me, this type of tact that Farmer has taken with our own is more egregious than drafting Manziel over Brdgewater. While the latter has bigger impacts on the future of the Browns, you're talking about a GM who drafted 1b over 1a on a draft board where they were near equals in the crapshoot we call the draft. Treating your own, proven guys the right way should be much easier.

Farmer has done this two years in a row now, and I cannot see a method to the madness.

Interesting post.

I just hope that we get something done w/this guy. I think he has evolved into one of very best players. He's smart and almost always in position. He has good ball skills. He can run after the pick. He is one of the better character guys we have. He's earned every penny because nothing has been handed to him.

I read the amounts of money the Browns are giving lesser players and that is concerning, because I don't care how good of a guy Gipson is, that has to be insulting.

"Jabaal Sheard is a guy that’s kind of under the NFL radar,'' said Pettine. "We use the phrase ‘play like a Brown’ – guys that are relentless and passionate, productive – I think he really epitomizes that.

According to Pettine, when the coaching staff talks about "Play like a Brown" attributes, Skrine is at the top of the list of players who embody that concept and embrace the opportunity to ply his craft every time he steps onto the practice field or the meeting rooms.

wonder what not only Gipson but all the players are thinking? wonder if they still buy into "play like a brown"

J/C .... You know, I never really thought about how he would react to us adding big salaries for players who are not as good at their positions as he is at his position. I think that he understands that a QB will get big dollars no matter what ...... but the punter making more than he is supposed to accept as his tender has to stick in his craw.

Hopefully the Browns manage to sign him to a long term deal, give him some nice cash up front, and get any contract concerns behind them. To me, Gipson has to be at least as important to the team as Bowe, or almost anyone else we have signed.

I think he is one of our best players. Heck, he might be our very best player.

I understand that he was not a high draft pick, but this kid can play. He also has displayed high character since he's been here.

I wonder what the deal is?

maybe they just want to see if he'll be the same player after the injury.

i like Gip a lot, but can't blame the FO from being cautious.

Or maybe they attribute his success to system? Who knows? We really didn;t experience a letdown at the position when Gipson got hurt and the old guy took over in his place. That is about the only thing i can think of beyond your possibility.

i never called gordon elite.

I think we did experience a let down after Gipson went down. Leonard played hard, but he did not have the range or instincts that Gipson had. He also missed more tackles. I will never forget that loud-mouthed Bengal rookie RB running rough shod over our D and throwing Leonard around like a rag doll.