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Nice thoughts Vers.
However, Farmer does not strike me as a guy who feels he can learn from others.
That is just my opinion. I don't know the man. But I have listened to him talk at his press conferences. He comes across as a guy who is over confident in his beliefs of how a team should be built and in his evaluation of talent.
He is going to get his chance to do it his way and we will either benefit or fail.
I don't know, I think we may have seen some growth. Compare the 2 drafts in this regard: Last season we did draft a few guys that needed attitude adjustments (to put it kindly..) Manziel, Gilbert, West... we really didn't hear anything about players that mentally/emotionally fit the "Play like a Brown" philosophy. Now I get that last years draft may have come a little too soon before that philosophy was fully formed... but compare it to this years draft, and I admit this could be just fluff, but many of the players we drafted the FO has talked about fitting that philosophy. I think they learned that talent/draft position can't trump a crap attitude. They were heavily criticized for not paying as much attention to character issues, and so far it seems like more importance has been given to it. Still remains to be seen,
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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You may not be sad now but I strongly suspect you will be when you get a look at his replacement Weedon 2.0 Why? Hoyer was never going to lead us anywhere, and if you're right, we'll get a high draft pick to draft a franchise QB next year. This "the sky is falling" scenario would have a very happy ending from where I sit. Exactly Pitt, but its going to be a very very painful year. Having said that its going to be next to impossible to sell this fan on the concept that its about winning as well.
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
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I can't disagree with you there.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I'm not trying to sling mud at Brian Hoyer.
I've said multiple times that I like him, and I would still take him over Josh McCown. I've just tried pointing out some of the facts, and some of the circumstances around his play.
I appreciate that he helped us win some games last season. I've not said that Hoyer is bad, just that he had some very bad spots last year, and that he's not an irreplaceable asset. He's a 30-year old, mostly career backup QB with a below average arm.
You keep bringing up the fact that he's won 10 games over the last two seasons and nobody else has been able to win any, even though it's technically only 9 games since it was Weeden who brought us back against Buffalo last year in 2013.
Did Brandon Weeden or Jason Campbell have ANY running game to support them last year in 2013? No.
Did they have Kyle Shanahan's potent offense that consisted of lots of zone running, no huddle, and heavy play action? No.
Did they have a defense that generated 21 interceptions? No.
Did they get to play Saints, Titans, Bucs, Raiders or Falcons? No.
Now I don't think Weeden or Campbell are better than Hoyer, but I don't think you can really compare the offensive styles here. I think Shanahan's offense was a luxury that a lot of our previous QB's would have loved. I think losing him is going to hurt us more than losing Hoyer.
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i cant believe i let myself get sucked back into the hoyer thing. just when you see some one say a QB that complete 67.9% of his passes and a QB rate of 111.3 and had no running game be described as in spite of him we won....... absurd.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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j/c...still with Hoyer???
Listen I don't know stats from the hair on my ass.
What I do know Hoyer was deserved of all his wins...the only case in some is that he has some errant throws that did not cost us...not his fault. But he was deserved of every win we got - the only one he played poorly in and to his own account we won despite him was the one game we one after the Big Bengal win. In the midst of his 4 game drought. That was the only one. I can care less what the stats say or don't say. Hoyer himself said he played terrible in that win. But those other 6 wins and even in most of those 3 losses...Hoyer played well enough to be considered a Good starter for us.
Why I soured on him so much cause without any good reason. Crap this Mack stuff this Gordon stuff that didn't change his foot work his follow through his accuracy his timing! It was a total mental breakdown of his game and I don't believe in coincidence the coincidence was not Mack, one WR cannot throw you off your game. The coincidence to me was that he captivated a National Audience and he was Declared KING OF THE HILL to his childhood dream team. Then went sour from that day forward.
Why at the worst we have a lateral move...not that it is a good thing. Cause I don't know what is going to go through McCowns head. Pressure does strange thing to people - why I pray Manziel progresses cause he reacts to pressure so so well regarding football.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Keep slinging until something sticks I get it. I have debated this to a conclusion for me. You guys IMO haven't a clue about anything to do with a QB and what effects their play. And I guess nor do you, as you make a God out of someone who constantly threw off their backfoot when there was just absolutely no reason to launch balls without the proper mechanics, which could explain why a few of his passes were extremely inaccurate and floaters. Talk about basics, that is a basic of any QB and Hoyer was consistently throwing off his back feet, back peddling and so forth when the protection was well doing their part. Hoyer = career back up. That is mud that is sticking, whether you wish to see it or not is another question.
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Was the reason Hoyer SUCKED so badly at the end of the year was because of a bad quad? Or is this just another rumor? If he was playing with an injury, I would seriously question the FO for not bringing him back.
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j/c:
Guys, if we are going to address one solitary poster, can we please click on his name rather than the original poster?
I can see using that Quick Reply thing if you are making a general statement that is not directed towards another poster's comments, but it gets quite confusing.
I don't like people thinking I am making some of the claims that other posters are actually making.
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i cant believe i let myself get sucked back into the hoyer thing. just when you see some one say a QB that complete 67.9% of his passes and a QB rate of 111.3 and had no running game be described as in spite of him we won....... absurd.
That's the way its been all along pblack. I can't make sense out of it Hoyer was the ONLY QB we have had here since 2007 that had a winning record and led this team thru the most exiting season we have had since 2007 as well, and the fans hate him. Makes no sense at all. Some of it was the JF thing but the fans got to wet their appetite on JF and I think they got enough of a taste to satisfy their hunger, but the hate for Hoyer I just don't get it all he did was win here when nobody else could or has. And that FACT seems to drive the masses absolutely mad. But the truth is you can't argue with winning but somehow they sure as hell are trying.....God bless the misguided lovers of the used car....
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
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I loved me some Hoyer, but the guy is just average imo. Now freakin average is awesome when it comes to the Browns, but he doesn't have what it takes to win consistently in the AFC north. Right now we have the worse group of QBs that any team has had in NFL history, but I think we are bound to get lucky in the draft one of these years and get a true franchise QB. If we lose just enough this year, it just might come true next.
Congratulations to our 2016 NBA Champion CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!!! Greatest comeback in sports history... Hail to the King!
The great QB guru and the Moneyball group: 1-15 Record of Criminal Haslam owned Browns: 20-60 (0.250)
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If we lose just enough this year i just can not bring myselfe to think that way.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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If we lose just enough this year i just can not bring myselfe to think that way. You're absolutely right...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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If we lose just enough this year i just can not bring myselfe to think that way. You're absolutely right... I just think that eventually you have to play for the future. It sucks, but it's absolutely necessary. I don't think we'll even be necessarily trying to lose, but with the QBs we have it's inevitable.
Congratulations to our 2016 NBA Champion CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!!! Greatest comeback in sports history... Hail to the King!
The great QB guru and the Moneyball group: 1-15 Record of Criminal Haslam owned Browns: 20-60 (0.250)
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I think 2015 will be a wasted season and we will pick in the top 3 in the 2016 draft. And we will draft a QB. I think that your scenario is very likely. How do people feel about that? How do you think guys like Joe Thomas, Whitner, Mack, and Whitner feel about that? How confident are you that Farmer will pick the right qb this time? These are serious questions that will not go away just because some people want to pretend they don't exist. Farmer is drafting for his job next year. If QB doesn't get fixed, he's gone.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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I think 2015 will be a wasted season and we will pick in the top 3 in the 2016 draft. And we will draft a QB. I think that your scenario is very likely. How do people feel about that? How do you think guys like Joe Thomas, Whitner, Mack, and Whitner feel about that? How confident are you that Farmer will pick the right qb this time? These are serious questions that will not go away just because some people want to pretend they don't exist. Farmer is drafting for his job next year. If QB doesn't get fixed, he's gone. The sad reality is that it's probably true. I have no doubt that we tried to traded for Sam Bradford, and then tried to move up for Marcus Mariota. Things just didn't play out in our favor, and that's going to eventually fall back on Ray Farmer and possibly cost the guy his job. Makes you wonder though, what if McCown does enough for the team to win 6 or 7 games, and we're not in prime position to move up for a top tier QB again. Does Farmer and Pettine lose there job(s)? There is upside in losing, at least when you're considering the bigger picture, but yeah what about guys like Thomas, Mack, Whitner, Haden and the other talented vets on this team who are down right sick of losing? Tanking on purpose sets this team back even further in my own opinion. Another 4-12 season (or worse) is just going to make our own guys want out more, and make it harder to lure in free agents. What a pickle... Seriously. 
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But the truth is you can't argue with winning but somehow they sure as hell are trying.....God bless the misguided lovers of the used car.... Like I said, It's not how you start it's how you finish. All you talk about is how BH has won all these games, yet you leave out how he finished..... Loss after Loss after Loss. It's how you finish, he tanked. He's not a winner, He tanked, He's not a winner He tanked. Got it?
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180 You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow #GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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I think 2015 will be a wasted season and we will pick in the top 3 in the 2016 draft. And we will draft a QB. I think that your scenario is very likely. How do people feel about that? How do you think guys like Joe Thomas, Whitner, Mack, and Whitner feel about that? How confident are you that Farmer will pick the right qb this time? These are serious questions that will not go away just because some people want to pretend they don't exist. Farmer is drafting for his job next year. If QB doesn't get fixed, he's gone. The 2015 season is 3 mo's away and already the Brown's peanut gallery is talking about our yearly Super Bowl appearance in the NFL draft. 
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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i will not get sucked back in. i wont i wont........
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Just when you think it's safe to go back in the water: BTTB (jaws) theme 
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180 You can't fix yesterday but you can learn for tomorrow #GMSTRONG
I want to do it as a Cleveland Brown because that's who I am.”
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Just when you think it's safe to go back in the water: BTTB (jaws) theme Brilliant. 
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"So.........how many of you feel comfortable that the Browns are going to resolve the QB position this year? How many of you are afraid that we will be in this very same position again after next season? Would most of you at least admit that it is very concerning?" ===================================================
It is very difficult to forecast future performance with out looking at past performance.
McCown's career is there to look at in game film and stats.
Manziel's has done nothing up to this point in contributing to the team. Everything that has Manziel's name attached has been off field related.
So to answer your question Vers. Hell yes I am concerned.
Hard to imagine that either quarterback will become something more than what they have been in the past.
If Manziel can not at some point in this season become the starter and show something to build upon then the Browns need to put him in the rear view mirror.
Most likely scenario is the Browns will good enough to not get the best quarterback in the coming draft.
And they will bad enough to do anything significant.
So, when this year ends like ground hog day; they will be back in the line for a quarterback.
Then it will up to Farmer once again to find a quarterback. Not something that you would likely bet the farm on.
I would love to wear rose colored glasses and believe that all is going great but the lenses are scratched.
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I think 2015 will be a wasted season and we will pick in the top 3 in the 2016 draft. And we will draft a QB. I think that your scenario is very likely.
How do people feel about that? How do you think guys like Joe Thomas, Whitner, Mack, and Whitner feel about that? How confident are you that Farmer will pick the right qb this time? These are serious questions that will not go away just because some people want to pretend they don't exist. Farmer is drafting for his job next year. If QB doesn't get fixed, he's gone. To my mind (and the last I checked, I was still in possession of a rational one), I believe 2015 will be a very progressive year that may surprise most of us. Therefore, none of your subsequent questions require an answer. The QB situation as it relates to Manziel is a separate issue. If he doesn't pan out long-term, then yes, we will be searching for the right guy...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I think 2015 will be a wasted season and we will pick in the top 3 in the 2016 draft. And we will draft a QB. I think that your scenario is very likely.
How do people feel about that? How do you think guys like Joe Thomas, Whitner, Mack, and Whitner feel about that? How confident are you that Farmer will pick the right qb this time? These are serious questions that will not go away just because some people want to pretend they don't exist. Farmer is drafting for his job next year. If QB doesn't get fixed, he's gone. To my mind (and the last I checked, I was still in possession of a rational one), I believe 2015 will be a very progressive year that may surprise most of us. Therefore, none of your subsequent questions require an answer. The QB situation as it relates to Manziel is a separate issue. If he doesn't pan out long-term, then yes, we will be searching for the right guy... We didn't upgrade this QB spot this year there really wasn't much to chose from so we are about the same as we were last season if McCown plays the season. The O was upgraded in other areas and the D was upgraded also along with ST, we won't draft top 3.
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... we won't draft top 3. I'm flabbergasted that anybody would feel that we would be in the top 3 spots...
Last edited by bbrowns32; 06/10/15 06:45 PM.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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We have a better chance of drafting in the top 3 spots than ending up in the final 3 spots.
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We have a better chance of drafting in the top 3 spots than ending up in the final 3 spots. I think we have a better shot at ending up #30 than #3. But that is simply my opion, of course...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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 . I'm pleased to see that you share my opinion... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The QB Situation in 2016-2017
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