DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns TE Gary Barnidge has some of the best hands in the NFL

Rank Chiefs and Dolphins OL vs the Browns. This is the perceived advantage Browns have over others.

Again, who feared Seattle's receivers and TEs?

Who is our Russel Wilson?

I don't think I said that. Our current TEs do not require a coverage specialist to be on the field. That means more linebackers. More linebackers means you can't run.

We don't have a threat in the passing game, whether it is a QB, WR, or TE. We don't have it.

Because of our offensive line we may be able to manufacture some good running situations. Four wide receiver sets or three and a tight end. Either way, last year we couldn't keep linebackers off the field. This year we need to.

To me it was pretty obvious last year that opposing teams simply didn't respect our passing game and once they figured things out, they kept 8 men in the box and forced us to beat them with the passing game. That's when things fell apart.

When you have the ability to run the ball, that will open up play action passes that allow a lesser offense more success. That's how you can have WR's standing waiting on passes like they're waiting on a punt. Sounds familiar. lol

I expect teams to use the same strategy this year. They'll make us beat them with the pass by doing all they can to stop the run. Unless McCown is a better QB than Hoyer, McCown will look just like Hoyer did towards the end of last season.

Right. They figured us out because we took guys who can catch the ball off the field to compensate for not having Mack.

Personally I think our strong running game last year was given a shot in the arm from Kyle Shanahan and his scheme. If we're going to be using a pistol based offense, with lots of zone running, no huddle, and play action, then I think we have a chance to be effective again. If Flip is changing things up, and we're going back to a more traditional approach as we had in previous years, I think the offense will be setup to fail. Like everyone is saying, we don't have the QB or receiving threats to keep defenses honest.

I like our RB's (a lot actually), and I think the Hartline, Bowe, Hawkins and Gabriel can all be an effective group capable of getting the job done BUT that's only going to be the case if the running game is working.

I sincerely hope Flip is going to be running a similar offense to last year.

Teams can load the box all they want, if we're going with lots of no huddle, and lots of stretch runs with heavy play action, it won't matter. Things will open up and the defenses will wear down.

This year we also have the depth on the o-line to sustain one injury.

Maybe two if this Bowie kid lives up to any of the hype he's received!

Oh I agree that teams brought 8-9 down in the box but it had to do with tendencies more then daring the Browns to throw the ball. We ran on 1st down 70% of the time, and we stuck with the run no matter what.

The part that gets left out is when you show a tendency to do something teams load up on you, we never changed up enough to make them respect the pass. Our offense became predictable and from there the sledding got tough.

I agree.

I also think that Hoyer could have been helped out a bit with some change-ups to the play-calling. Play action was supremely well-set up by our emphasis on the run, but we rarely used it on 1st down, iirc. IMO, that would have loosened D's up enough to create some sustained drives later in the season, when the OL was less effective.

Shanahan put together a fantastic scheme for the season, but some of his play-call choices later in the year negated any advantage the scheme may have given us. I've often wondered if losing Mack forced/prompted the changes I saw.

On a related note, I think I read that Flip was going to keep much of what we had last year. If that proves to be true, I think we'll play better than current circumstances may suggest.

.02

Hope you're right Clemdawg.

I loved the scheme we used last year.

Best looking offense we'd seen in years the first half of the season...

I don't agree. We lost two pro-bowlers for extended periods of time. We were already playing w/out a third.

Once Mack went down, teams dialed up more pressure on Hoyer and he simply did not handle it well. His mechanics fell apart and not having Cameron to challenge the defense vertically down the interior seam hurt. The line calls became a real issue in both the passing and running game. Our WRs were a weak group to begin with and were aided by the great play design.

I believe that you guys are deluding yourselves if you think we are going to have a good offense this year.

But hoping that we are good will most certainly make it come true, because as you know from what we've been told by certain posters, having an optimistic viewpoint on something you have absolutely no control over makes all our wishes come true. All we have to do is click our heels and repeat "We will be good, We will be good, We will be good." Surely, all our hopes and wishes will come true.

Are there really people who think our offense will be good? What is their definition of good? Good for us would be in the top two thirds of the league.

Also, when Mack went out we had to compensate by playing fullbacks and tight ends for more snaps. When you bring those type of players on the field the defense knows what you are going to do [run]. And if you don't run you can cover a fullback or a Gary Barnidge/Jim Dray with a linebacker.

More linebackers on the field = bad for running the ball.

pfft. your just troll.

I don't know, but when I read stuff about how we might have the best trio of RBs in the NFL, our TEs are going to surprise people and we won't miss Cameron's ability to stretch the field, we fell off on offense because our OC could not make adjustments, Bowe and Hartline are good WRs, our OL is one of the best in football [I agree w/that one,] McCown is accurate, a leader, and knows the system, etc............

...I tend to think that people believe our O will be good.

And you have to remember I was responding to a couple of posts that blamed Shanny for not making adjustments after Mack went down..........like it was his fault and not the lack of talent.

I do love getting it from both sides though. People are pumping up the offense and making excuses and then when I offer an opinion as to why they might not be that good, I get someone saying........who thinks our offense will be good? LOL..........gotta love the comedic relief of this board.

you're

I think our offense will score points, but only if- like last year- everything (and I mean absolutely everything) goes right. On paper at least, they won't have the playmakers/firepower to overcome adversity. And if the injury bug hits, it becomes really dicey. This team is not yet constructed for the long haul- either by season or by regime/system.

And mostly, it's due to massive turnover from top to bottom. Sooo many times since '99 (sigh).

6.5 is a safe bet until the season begins playing out. A couple early wins and an above .500 after 4 games might change that predix for the better.

Once again- as always- we seem to be starting the season with an O that's still very much a work in progress. That rarely adds up to a recipe for success- at least for us.

I LIVE for the day when I recognize more than 50% of our starting O line-up.

Dare to dream, eh?

It's hard for me to believe it took half a season for teams to figure it out. Pressure up the middle really put the nail in the coffin. Making Hoyer move was his weakness. Adding Gordon didn't improve things. Isn't that enough of a threat to keep things in check?

Good post.

I remember really believing that we would have a very good offense in 2008. I was one of the very, very few who preferred DA over BQ and I was really excited about what had transpired in 2007.

That bubble burst in my face.

As someone once said: “Rivers know this: there is no hurry. We shall get there some day.”

I agree and disagree. How can you really predict? Does McCown play like he did in Chicago or Tampa? How much dose the second year guys improve? How much do the rookies contribute? What happens if either Heartline or Bowe gets hurt?

As you stated, a lot must fall into place for Browns to be successful. I like where the team is going. Yea, we all know the QB is still unknown. There is more quality depth but is it enough? I'm with you on knowing starters, yes, it would be nice!

I see things play out like last year. It starts slow because of the newness. We look good for several games. Then injuries start taking its toll. I simply hope the middle part last a few more games.

I rarely make predix, bugs. I'm almost NEVER in the 'final record' pool. What you read is more my projection based on past seasons that were set up by offseasons similar to this. AND.. I agree that there are too many unknowns to definitively say that this team will suck rocks.

And like you said: I like where this team is going, too.

Sorry Clem. Questions in my post were rhetorical. I didn't mean you were voicing. I was kind-of piggy-backing! I should have worded different. I shouldn't respond and watch the Stanley Cup!

Why do people think McCown's [short] successful stretch with the Buccaneers is anything more than an aberration? This is not Hoyer having four good games and no other evidence for success. Josh McCown has been in the league since 2002 and has started 49 games. We know what he is. QBs don't magically get good after being in the league 12 years (and being bad to average). If we had a QB on our roster that made McCown's 49 starts for the Browns we would all be calling for that player to be replaced. It is only because he is new that people think he will do well.

I feel very confident in saying that McCown will be pretty terrible. I have this confidence because he has been terrible for a very large portion of his long(ish) career.

Heeeeey.... watch it! If that kinda stuff goes public, who knows what rumors might start-



Totally understand. It was like the answers I give my wife when the Browns are on...


No probs, bugs.... this stuff happens all the time on message boards.

I agree with parts and disagree with others.

If the pressure is coming up the middle then as an OC you have to adjust, maybe keep in an extra blocker for instance.

Change up the play calling. We were run heavy on 1st down, maybe some quick hitters.

I liked Shanny's offense when everything was ideal (Mack) but thought it became to predictable which contributed to our lack of success. When you fail to run you put the QB in 2nd and 3rd and longs. On the one hand you want the OC to stick to the game plan on the other you have to be adaptive.

The sweep runs and the cut back was gone and teams were loading up for it. Once that happened I didn't see an adjustment. Did you?

I agree the pressure up the gut broke Hoyer down and the lack of play makers in the passing game hurt too.

On the Shanny side everything in the route tree was built on time extra time PA, roll outs, nothing of the quick hitter variety and it too hurt us. Yes Shanny got guys more open then any OC I can remember but that was all built on the premise of extra time. With Mack gone that was no longer an option. And Shanny just didn't adjust.

I'm not going to reply to the entire post Tab its a waste of time. I think you and others have repeated ideas to each other to the point your convinced but I saw Hoyer get absolutely creamed quite a few times right up the gut, to state otherwise is misleading. In fact one of those hits knocked him out for the last game of the season. Pressure from the edges is one thing when it comes in any QB's face trouble follows.

So he had a 4 game bad stretch something happened to the guy, but he has it in him to play very well and he showed that. Can I explain it to the tee, Hell NO and neither can you.

My bet is had JF been given the chance he would have topped Hoyer easy. My bet is it was a combo of things play calling/ lack of the run putting Hoyer in bad 2nd and 3rd and longs, and his own poor mechanics, but they all played a roll you want to place all the blame on Hoyer and leave out OL problems. Hell the Browns moved Greco to center when Mack went down then the play at RG was so bad in combo with center they moved Greco back to RG and started hell I don't even remember and then moved him out and started someone else, if there wasn't an issue and the protection was antiquate then why shuffle players around at center. What your saying doesn't reflect the shuffling, why do it is its OK? Doesn't even make sense what your saying to be honest.

But I have gone over this Hoyer thing enough don't kick the bee HIVE cause I won't let it slide.

Are you saying I'm lying? I don't make stuff up and I do NOT run with the mob. I see a guy who played really well start playing badly I look for a reason for that and I'm a liar. I'm done here.

I wouldn't say that I think our offense will be GOOD but I certainly think it's capable of being what it was early on last year if the running game and scheme are effective. I'm not trying to argue or debate, it's of my own personal opinion that McCown can be a lateral move from Hoyer if everything around him is clicking. I don't expect a top 10 or even a top 15 offense, but I expect one that can consume clock and churn out first downs due to our elite offensive line and quality running backs. Also have to factor in that our defense SHOULD be getting us stops and turnovers (assuming they live up to the hype) so that'll give the offense more opportunity at least for field goals

Pretty sure he's saying that his opinion is right and yours is not... which is what everybody does in every post... they say they are right and the other person is wrong... I don't think it was an assault on your character or ethics...

Did you watch the games? I remember them well. Place I go watch the Browns also has several Bears fans. McCown played well enough people wanted to cut Cutler.

I get your point it was only four games. Wasn't it last year Clausen looked good?

Vers, I believe this is the second time someone stated. Without Cameron offense couldn't get any vertical threat. Why isn't Flash Gordon threatening anyone deep? Flash can run go routes the whole game. I think one or two TDs would have solved the vertical threat issue. Nobody stopped him in 2013 when Cameron was missing. Actually, the offense looked twice as bad last year when Gordon played. Other thing that still puzzles me. If Hawkins is one of the fastest players in the league, why isn't he any threat?

Yeah guys.....losing two Pro-Bowl players NEVER EVER hurts a team.

Btw: McCown threw 11 TD's and 14 picks last year. His record was 1 and 10.

His career totals are: 61 TDs and 59 picks, w/a record of 17 and 32.

Now, let me guess. The talent he played made all the difference?

Y'all crack me up.

I would venture they are walking a safety over the top to force him to cut his routes off? Or send him deep and cut the underneath off his route.... Shanny designed several plays like that with good success.

Yes. I did watch the games. McCown was great. He has 45 other games that tell us he is terrible. I am going with the 45. The fact that Bears fans wanted McCown over Cutler probably says more about how they felt (feel) about Cutler than it does about McCown's performance.

I'm not sure what Clausen has to do with anything. Are you saying that anyone have done well with the Bears (I don't think that's what you are saying)? Or are you saying that Clausen didn't do well and that proves McCown is good (Clausen started one game for a coach that everyone knew was going to be fired)?

No, I more saying it could be the system. It can make any QB work for few weeks.

Got it. Trestman is a known QB guru. But Clausen was not good.

You noticed that too. The only consistent part is that if the Browns FO had a hand in it, its perfect... Hard to debate the lack of logic, impossible to understand as well. Oh and the part I found enlightening about McCown I think he has 59 fumbles as well.... Its impossible for me to understand the attraction to used car salesmen that some of the Browns fans have.SMH