DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Gipson's Big Mistake

Wow! Did he really just say that?

Like I said before, I'm torn on this one. It almost sounds like TP is in Pet's doghouse. I don't know what happened, but it feels like some bad blood is going on. I wonder if Gip said something when he was tendered, besides what we read about. Instead of harping about the 2nd rd. tender and sitting out OTA's, maybe he should have come in and said he was ready to show the Team that he was worth a long term deal. I don't know.

If he knew he was going to sign his tender, then why would he sit out & wait? I think someone mentioned that he let his agent give him some bad advice, I agree now. He really only played in a little over half the season and even though he made the PB, he did get hurt. Now he shows up late and hurt. Not good, and Pet sounds like it.

Gipson admitted that he held out of the voluntary offseason workouts, including 11 organized team activities practices, because of the contract situation.

"Everything was my decision,'' he said. "My agent, nobody had a play in it. He just supported it, gave me the pros and cons to it and that was one of those things where yeah I would lying if I said the contract situation didn't have something to do with it because it did,'' he said

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._medium=twitter

“I feel I’ve reached a place that I deserve (contract extension), but if not, I’m going to be the same guy,” Gipson said.
Gipson wouldn’t say if he received any other contract offers during free agency, but he did say he was frustrated the Browns didn’t tender him the first-round tender, which would’ve paid him approximately one million more this season.

“I would say the most frustrating thing to me was I could’ve been playing somewhere else (this year),” Gipson said “The second-round tender showed me this was a business and I can’t be that wide-eyed undrafted rookie. Would I like to have had a first-round tender? Absolutely, it wouldn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that I wasn’t happy.”

http://www.scout.com/nfl/browns/story/15...UYuxxkc.twitter

Although he declined to get into specifics, Gipson said that he had some interest from teams as a restricted free agent but he did not execute an offer sheet, which the Browns could – and likely would – have matched.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2015/06/16...WDQT5gM.twitter

good thing Poyer is a stud.

Yes he did... and?

he needs to show up like everybody else.

what's wrong about that?

Correct.

I think he meant it was an issue that he wasn't in camp, not that he held out. Missing practice time is definitely an issue. It's the same reason I don't like that players can't go to camp if they are still in school.

Bolded above for emphasis...

So now we know we can change the rhetoric to 'his agent did him a huge disservice' from 'giving him bad advice'. Six or half-dozen?

Sign the tender because you have no choice and get to OTAs and the building. Get the hammy treated and learn the new installs. Kick butt and get your McCourty $$$ NEXT year.

Simple really.

Bolded for emphasis again:

#1 Bolded item: The MOST frustrating thing was that he could be playing somewhere else this year. Really? Did he just say that?!

#2 Bolded item: So you had a chance to resolve your 'most frustrating thing' and chose not to? Then shut your trap and get to wor...I mean get on the exercise bi...I mean get that injury treated by professionals like you should have been doing for a month now.

#3 Bolded item: I don't know about 'stud', but I'm damn glad he showed up for OTAs to get himself ready for mini and training camps.

Any wonder why the 'Jim Leonhard potential comeback' story is out there? Not to replace Gipson, but as insurance in case that injury - and related tight hammy - aren't ready.

Gipson played this thing like a fool...and now his yapper is proving it. The Browns played this perfectly. Pet is PO'd as well...as he should be.

I'm very disappointed he did this and said what he said...I love his story - UDFA and surviving all the regime changes - but now he's just like everyone else in my mind. Time to put-up-or-shut-up.

I think he's saying he's frustrated that despite his play he still could have ended up on another team... that the Browns didn't value his contributions enough to place the first round tender on him to protect him. Not that he wants out. At least that's how I read it.

Gipson needs to select his words carefully if he's going to be as blunt and open as he was in the last interview. I got so many mixed feelings after watching that, who knows...

I kind of read it that way as well... in the back of my mind though it does concern me that he is doing what he didn't due before signing his tender... playing this out in the media... I was a little taken back.

Fair enough...good point.

That's how I took it too. He has made other statements where he said that he wanted to be a member of the Browns for the rest of his career, and part of a great secondary ........... so I think that he wants to be here, but he did word this one pretty poorly.

Just watched and listened to the Gipson interview.

Really like the guy. Honest, great attitude.

Hope we get something done long-term with him.

*GENERAL REPLY*
I don't know a whole lot about contracts so I apologize if this sounds elementary. Being a "restricted" FA, did the Browns have to place a tender on Gipson? The tender basically protects their interest correct? Had they not placed a tender on him, would that mean he would in effect be "unrestricted" prior to next year?

I guess my next question is, the near million dollars that he is being "shorted" because it wasn't a 1st Rd tender... is he actually being shorted, as in he was scheduled to be paid that much, or is he shorted in the sense that he's not going to get paid what he COULD be paid?

The one thing that is missing from all of our expert analysis of course is that fact that we don't know what has been put on the table already. For all we know it IS a fat contract, but the garaunteed money isn't where he wants it to be. Given his knee (and hasn't he had a couple other injuries in the past? I wanna say a concussion at some point?? Could be wrong), of course the FO is going to balk at paying so much up front until they see more. Someone made a comparison and called him Ed Reed Light. I think I can get behind that, but also, how many full seasons did Ed Reed play? I don't think very many. A team has to make a calculated decision about just how much they are going to invest in guys that may not be able to consistently finish seasons. The Ravens felt it was worth it with Reed and the same with the Steelers and TroyP. The Browns however so far have shown a reluctance to throw that much support behind someone like that a la Cameron. Congrats to guys like Gipson and Cameron for becoming Pro-bowlers, but just how much are they worth if they can't make the field the last 4 weeks of a season when you need that push to get in the playoffs? I'm not going to go far as to suggest Gipson is made of glass, but I don't blame the FO for having some concerns about an injury that took a player out for 5 weeks.

OR its wholly possible that the Browns HAVE low balled him because they want a "Show me" season out of him to prove he's past that injury. They could just be a bunch of cold hearted SOB's and aren't going to offer him that deserved contract right now simply because they don't have to.

I couldn't disagree more with your take, but 1st lets clear some things up Reed played for 11 years at a very high level. Gipson was an undrafted player who did what all players should have to do. He earned it, 100%.

But Gipson has been vastly underpaid for the entirety of his career to this point, just like most UDFA are.

He has earned his jump in pay and the Browns had better hope like hell their fortunate enough to get him signed because I got a very good suspicion if they don't they will regret it. If we make it to the season without Gipson signed he will most certainly opt for FA, I know I would and I sure as hell would be unhappy enough to NEVER sign with the Browns at that point.

Pay the MAN he has earned it and he has been a solid team guy who is cut from the same cloth as Reed, no doubt. Great players need to be paid and Gipson is that. On a team so lacking in difference makers if we let Gipson walk we are just plain stupid. I don't want to get ahead of this thing I feel certain the Browns will pony up, they simply have too.

Why is it we seem to have so much trouble getting our own home grown guys signed? Are we being cheep and only ponying up when we are forced too(Mack)? Or as I truly suspect player who reach FA figure let me get out of this hell hole?

Stop agreeing with him.

Apparently not.

Gipson signed his tender though, and will be on the field for us in 2015.

Why aren't we all celebrating!?

Of course they are, just as we are trying to lo-ball him. It's a business when you get right down to it...

j/c:

Can't we tag Gipson next offseason if we want?

The only reason we are able to even think about resigning players like Gipson is because unlike most good teams, we aren't paying a QB 15+ mil a year..

The Ravens are now in a position because of Flaccos contract that they are almost required to let people walk and try to replace them with rookies..

Seattle was able to build its roster based on (lucky drafting) their QB being paid as a 3rd rounder.. once Wilson gets paid, you're going to see them start to have to let guys go..

The difference is.. Once you have a "Franchise QB" the "need" to build a super complete awesome team goes away..

The Colts overall roster last year was somewhat terrible.. But they made the AFC title game (and put up a freaking banner for that btw) because they had Andrew Luck.. Now you see they are throwing money at veterans this year.. But eventually when Luck becomes the highest paid player ever you will see them start to follow the mold..

Had to Google this the other day, but yes, we absolutely can if nothing long term is worked out.

I'm pretty sure CBs and Safeties are in two separate groups. FS and SS are in the same group.

According to NFL.com, the safety franchise tag would cost $9.6 million.

It gives the franchise tag cost of all positions.....

Quarterbacks: $18.51 million
Defensive ends: $14.78 million
Linebacker: $13.17 million
Cornerback: $13.05 million
Offensive line: $12.92 million
Wide Receivers: $12.8 million
Defensive Tackle: $11.17 million
Running Backs: $10.93 million
Safety: $9.6 million
Tight ends: $8.33 million
Kicker/Punter: $4.12 million

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000470843/article/estimated-franchise-tag-figures

I can certainly see why Gipson would be upset getting a little over 2 mil. considering the franchise tag number compared to where he is ranked among safties in the league.

FYI these are estimates from one team's calculations. Could vary by a few hundred thousands dollars. As a reference, last year's prices was $8.4M for a franchise tag, $7.2M for a transition tag. Surely it will increase next year.

Oh I don't think the franchise number was why he was PO'd. I do believe the huge disparity between the franchise number and what he will be playing for does have some impact on why he doesn't believe he is being paid what he's worth.

I also pointed out what it may end up costing us to keep him next year if we don't reach a deal with him. Because if a deal isn't reached, we may have to franchise tag him next off season.

I don't even believe the term "PO'd" fits. I said all along that I thought it was strictly business and I still do. None of Gipsons comments indicated him being PO'd. But if that's the way someone wishes to spin it, so be it.

I'm not saying Gipson hasn't earned it. Despite much of the BS you guys sling back and forth at each other on these threads.. NO ONE is saying he hasn't earned a jump in pay. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I don't think anyone in the FO would say he hasn't earned it.

The question is all about VALUE.

How much do you think he is worth? In real dollars, because that's what it all comes down to. Yeah I agree with the sentiment that it would be nice if they rewarded him for his past play, but at what cost? AT some point what you pay him to make up for the past cuts in to what you can spend in the future. Now we do have enough cap room I think he could be compensated, but that doesn't change the fact that its still a legit consideration.

People want to blast the FO for being a poorly run and dysfunctional business, but then criticize them for acting like a responsible business. It would have been irresponsible for them not to determine a value for him. I really like the guy and I hope to hell he stays with us through a second contract. I've defended him in the past against the people who claim he's just lucky, or a 'product of the system'... but the simple fact is that NO ONE else made a serious offer for him. I mean, were there even any rumors about anyone looking at him? This doesn't mean he's a bad player, but maybe, just maybe, there is a common concern that its not just the Browns that have about him. By every account he's exactly the kind of guy you want on your team, so personality can't be the issue. The only thing that jumps out right now is the knee thing.

I keep hearing the knee mentioned, yet it was only a sprain. No surgery required. And even after he was signed and returned to OTA's, the only thing mentioned was a slight hamstring pull.

The problem is business as you described. What each party perceives the value to be. At some point the two sides will have to reach an agreement or we'll have to either franchise or transition tag him next off season.

I believe a long term deal would be much wiser than either of those two options if both sides can find a happy medium. I don't really see this as a good guy/bad guy scenario, simply business.

Good post, DevilDawg. Taken from a different perspective...

and that is why he is pissed. they dont think he is worth first round tender money. if they think that how do you think the talks are going?

If I was Gipson I would hold out. The money he will be paid under the tender is less then 25% of what he should or would demand on the open market. I think the Brown should be asking themselves this simple question how much would you offer Gipson if he were a FA then pay him. I see this trend of low balling players, they did it with Mack, Cameron, Skrine and now Gipson.

Yeah they can basically force Gipson to play for the tender, but it fosters bad blood. And in the end its bad business. I'm concerned about the bargaining strategy of the team right now.

I also wonder if the Mack thing couldn't have been settled before the transition tag thus avoiding the poison pill opt out.

if i am gipson i would tell my agent to negotiate a long term deal that is very incentive laden. Make a bet upon himself. I think the Browns would go for that and it would give him a chance to get paid this year instead of next.

That's almost the exact opposite on how most NFL contracts are....players want the guaranteed money because no matter how good they are or how good/easy the incentive are, an injury can take all of that away.

I know Gipson had to sign the tender or the contract could be cut in half but if he wants a big deal, he needs to hold out now. And not start playing and then pull a Peyton Hillis. Players understand it and respect it more when a guy does this early-- "He's just trying to get paid"

Now whether or not he is worth a lucrative deal after a major injury (still injured apparently) with one and a half very good years behind him in another deal. Personally, I think he deserves a significant pay raise but I have no clue what his side is asking for....and neither do any of us.

That simple "sprain" is still keeping him out of practice - just like the last time anyone saw him. I know you think it's a minor thing - and maybe it is - but there are only two known facts about that sprain (and related hammy issue):

1.) He still cannot practice;

2.) The staff, FO, trainers, and conditioning coaches hadn't seen him since the end of last year. They could not evaluate the sprain and could not put him on a rehab path.

The absolute truth in all this is that he had no leverage with that tender and sitting/holding/skipping out was stupid. Sucks for him...but it is what it is.