DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs/Finals/NBA thread continued...

It's truly is the annual "Good Cleveland Free Agent will leave and come to Boston/LA/New York, because you know ... we're fans of those teams and everybody else would LOVE to give up a good situation to play for these crap teams" story.

Any player we took at that spot would've cost at least $5 million a year. It's ridiculous to ask Dan Gilbert to spend more than he's already poised to bleed. There simply wasn't value in any option at #24, and we're browsing the bargain bin right now.

Aww man, was kinda hoping Nance Jr would slip to one of our 2nd round picks.

Please keep sliding Montrez

How about Anthony Brown? 45% from 3 point range, and is a solid defender.

Is it bad that the only reason I know Thorn is because he drafted MJ?

Yeaaaaaa

Euro stash

Yup ... looks pretty clear that they aren't going to bother spending money on draft picks this year. Can't say I blame them when they could be paying a luxury tax close to $100 million.

Really like the Rockets draft.

Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress 2m2 minutes ago
Cedi Osman is under contract for two more years and has stated his intent to finish his contract in Turkey before coming to the NBA in 2017.

Russell Williams ‏@Cavs247dotcom now10 seconds ago
#Cavs select Rakeem Christmas, PF, from Syracuse.

I like Christmas.

He can at least fill the Haywood role.

Overpaid seat heater?

He is only 20 years old. I wonder if Blatt knows anything about him, having coached overseas for so long?

The funny thing about that tweet is that it completely contradicts what the ESPN guys said. They said that he wants to come over right away.

He seems like a guy who can fill Thompson's role ..... rebound, rebound, rebound .... pay some defense, and not a whole lot else.

Since everyone else seems to have conked out by now .....

Cavaliers pick at 53 is Sir'Domenic Pointer, SF from St John's. Not much on offense, but a strong defender.

Chris Fedor ‏@ChrisFedor now7 seconds ago
Sir'Dominic Pointer participated in the LeBron James camp in 2010.

Cavs GM David Griffin says Cedi Osman reminds him of Goran Dragic. Adds that he'll spend a couple more years in Europe.

The only concern I have with arak is that Syracuse players rarely pan out because Boeheims system does a horrible job getting players prepared for the NBA.

Can't believe the Heat got Winslow at ten. They are the luckiest team in the league. Cauley-Stein to the Kings is a joke.

j/c:

I was very disappointed by what we did last night. I was hoping Delon Wright would make it to us, but Toronto grabbed him.

I was then happy to see us take Jones. He is a great distributor, can penetrate, and can make shots. Doesn't turn it over. I wanted a stronger defender, but that would have been a solid pick at 24.

The two guys we got in return. Blah. I guess they drafted them because they didn't want any rookies on the roster. That's the only upside I can see, because I don't see how either will play for the Cavs next season.

Meanwhile, the issues at PG remain...

The Cavs are in a bit of a financial situation at the moment. Every contract they sign at this point almost triples in cost because of the luxury tax. Taking anyone in the first round means you have to sign them to a guaranteed first round contract. That can be a pretty hefty price for a guy that might not even make your roster.

The other thing to note ... 1st round picks put a cap "hold" value on your team salary number. Second rounders do not. If something bad happens like TT signs elsewhere or Love bails on his agreement, we could do some further maneuvering like renouncing the rights to JR, and we would be under the Tax Apron enough to possibly do a sign and trade for a guy like LaMarcus Aldridge.

I think with this draft, they realized they weren't going to get a day one contributor, so they went the cap friendly route. We have a guy that's a 2 year euro stash and another that might see some D League time. The hope is they get better down the road and don't cost us anything now.

This +10.

Last night's draft was about next week more than anything else. I had zero expectation Cleveland would be holding onto #24. However, this team will have to somehow focus on bringing younger talent at some point. We cannot continue to first round picks because we're out of money. The ceiling will rise next year with a new CBA but I hope this method isn't a reoccurring one.

Thanks for the information.

I guess it comes down to how we evaluate the roster. In my mind, addressing the PG position is huge. I really don't see anyone else talking about it, thus I am assuming that everyone is fine w/Kyrie and Delly. I think that is a risky proposition if we truly want to win the championship, but it's all opinion.

It's the same w/TT. Most of you don't view him the way I do. I think he is a perfect fit for a team w/3 big time scorers. Most of you don't see his value. I think he is invaluable. Again, it's just opinion.

The JR Smith situation is interesting. I was assuming he would stay in Cleveland, but after reading some articles this morning, it looks like he may not be back.

I tried to to copy and paste one of the articles on here, but for some reason.........I can't paste anything in my replies for the last two days. Does anyone know how to fix that issue?

1 guaranteed contract vs 2 non guaranteed contracts.

That is the difference. This was a salary cap move, period.

I actually like the kid we stashed overseas, from what I have read about him anyway. He is a young kid (20) who has been playing professionally since he was 17, and he has improved every year. He is a solid outside shooter, and he can create. He is also still maturing from a physical standpoint, and he can work on building his body while he plays overseas. I read several articles that said that he could be a solid contributor once he fills out a bit.

We won't see him, and he won't affect our cap for 2 years.

I also wonder if Blatt knows him, as he plays overseas, where Blatt, not coincidentally, used to coach?

Actually, the more I think about both Christmas and Pointer, they look like guys who can fill a specific role ..... and on this team, that is what we will need down the road, especially from guys at the bottom of the 1st round through the 2nd round.

Rakeem Christmas seems like a Thompson type ..... not much offense, but rebounding galore, especially on the offensive end. CBS Sports gave us an A for this pick ... one of only 2 A's in the 2nd round. I know that doesn't necessarily mean much, but it somehow makes me feel better. lol He also has an enormous wingspan. (7'5.25")
He has a little game around the basket, and is reported to be a solid defender around the hoop. He will have to learn how to defend on the perimeter. It looks like he will fit on the team, and could be a post player to help cushion the blow of the loss of Tristan Thompson. (who I just cannot see getting the max on this team)

Pointer shot 52% from the floor last tear, and added 7.7 rebounds and 3 assists per game. He's not a 3 point specialist, as he barely shot the 3 in college, but we'll see if he can develop that. I think I read that he is a great perimeter defender, and if so, he will have a role.

Both guys are also older guys, who completed school.

DraftExpress NBA Draft Prospect Profile: Cedi Osman, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Cedi-Osman-7133/

DraftExpress NBA Draft Prospect Profile: Rakeem Christmas, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Rakeem-Christmas-5722/

DraftExpress NBA Draft Prospect Profile: Sir'Dominic Pointer, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Sir-Dominic-Pointer-6523/

I have a couple friends who have played in the Turkish League over the past few years.

I will ask them what they thought of him. Those Unis look familiar, I think one of them may have played on that same team.

Yes, I get that. I alluded to that in my earlier post and Excel elaborated.

My contention is that winning the NBA championship should be the goal next year. We might not ever have a better opportunity.

Keeping TT and upgrading the PG position would be wise moves.

I realize you don't see TT's value, and that is fine, but that isn't going to change my mind. I watched the games w/my own eyes and no one had an answer for him in the playoffs. You aren't going to replace that w/a second round pick.

Furthermore, Kyrie has a history of getting injured. Playing Delly big minutes at PG would be a disaster [again, in my opinion.] You might not see it that way and that is fine. I am just expressing my opinion.

He might be alright down the road, but he is not a solid outside shooter.

He has some strengths, but he is not a good shooter and is not very athletic. That's a tough combo to overcome in the NBA.

Actually, I liked Thompson going back quite a while. I was actually derided for thinking that he could be a capable NBA player, and a useful piece of a winning NBA team.

It is not that I do not like Thompson, it is that we will pay Lebron, Kyrie, and Kevin to max deals, and Mozgov will be in line for a huge raise after next season.

Our best chance for keeping the team together is if Lebron sells them on staying to win a championship over chasing every last dollar. I would almost be OK with the team signing Thompson to a deal like Lebron will sign ... a 1 and 1 deal, with a salary around $12-13 million, and the right for Thompson to be a free agent again next year when the cap increases dramatically. Maybe Lebron does the same with JR .... do a 1 and 1 .... and go for the money next year when more teams will have a lot more money to spend.

I do think that we picked the Christmas kid because the team sees a lot of Tristan Thompson in him. Christmas can legitimately back up the Center spot. (defensively, anyway) He is only 6'9" or 6'10", but he has a huge wingspan, and is an excellent post defender. He will have to learn to defend away from the basket, but that may come with time. That is the challenge for him.

I just look at how the team is constructed, and I have to ask myself a series of "or" questions.

Tristan Thompson or Kevin Love? I take Love 100 times out of 100. Not having Love's offense was a major contributing cause for us losing the Finals. Thompson will never have that kind of offensive game, and honestly, he will never even be close.

If Mozgov continues the way he has begun his Cavaliers career, what kind of contract does he earn? This year, Thompson averaged 26.8 minutes/game, 8.5 PPG, 8 RPG, 0.5 APG, and 0.7 BPG.

Compare that with Mozgov, who, as a Cavalier averaged 25 MPG, 10.6 PPG, 6.9 RPG, 0.8 APG, and a very strong 1.2 BPG.

If Thompson is a max player, will Mozgov also be a max player? I don't see how you can argue that he won't be. That's only 1 year off, and if we pay a "Big 4" going into next year, there won't be room got Mozgov as well. The cap will be $88 million, and if we pay TT the max, along with the Big 3 ... we'll have almost $80 million tied up in those 4 players. Then we have to pay Mozgov, and fill out the roster ......

I don't think that Gilbert minds paying some luxury tax, but I don't think that he wants to pay tens of millions in luxury tax.

As much as I respect Thompson, he is a backup on this team, and we have 4 players who are higher priority IMHO. If he takes a 1 and 1 deal, with a salary somewhere in the $12-13 million/year range, then I am happy to re-sign him. If he is dead set on the max, then I have to let him explore his options. I simply cannot see completely blowing the salary structure of the team, long term, to re-sign him.

I meant to take that out, and forgot. You are correct in that he is a limited outside shooter.

Here is ESPN's evaluation of our draft:

2015 NBA draft - Thumbs up or thumbs down for team
http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2015/story/_/id/13148447/2015-nba-draft-thumbs-thumbs-team

Cleveland Cavaliers

• Tyus Jones, G, Duke (24); traded to Wolves
• Cedi Osman, SF, Macedonia (31); acquired from Minnesota
• Rakeem Christmas, C, Syracuse (36); acquired from Houston
• Sir'Dominic Pointer, SF, St. John's (53)


After four straight years selecting in the top five of the lottery, the Cavaliers had to wait a bit before passing on the name of their No. 24 pick, Tyus Jones, to commissioner Adam Silver on Thursday. The Cavs received the draft rights of Osman, selected No. 31 by Minnesota, as part of the Jones trade. Osman is a 6-8 shooting guard out of Macedonia who is known for his shooting stroke, but only shot 32.8 percent from 3 last season, averaging 8.5 points in 20.8 minutes per game. He still has two years remaining on his deal in Turkey, which means he likely wouldn't be suiting up for the Cavs until the 2017-18 season as a 22-year old, according to GM David Griffin. The Wolves deal also netted the Cavs the draft rights to Syracuse big man Christmas, who was selected at No. 36. Christmas was a four-year college athlete, exploding in his senior season to average 17.5 points and 9.1 rebounds after underwhelming production through his first three years. The Cavs finished off their draft night by using their own No. 53 pick on Pointer, a 6-6 wingman out of St. John's. Like Christmas, Pointer blossomed in his senior season, being named the Big East Co-Defensive Player of the Year and upping his averages to 13.7 points, 7.7 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 1.9 steals and 2.4 blocks in his final season as he was also named his conference's most improved player. Thumbs Up -- Dave McMenamin

Really hope the Kings keep Boogie and Rudy Gay. Those 2 + WCS l be a formidable front line.

That team has talent, but I feel like Karl will destroy it.

There is a rumor that the owner is considering firing him, only 4 months after hiring him.

I wonder what would happen if a group of All Stars actually agreed it was JUST about winning and in turn teamed up without all getting Max Deals..

I've also felt, while obviously it sucked, that when James, Wade, and Bosh all teamed up.. Had they done it here, as opposed to Miami.. The dynamic of it would of been the exact opposite..

Mostly due to James "bringing" them here, as opposed to the view of him "joining" them in Miami, also because.. Miami..

The Carmelo rumors have started. I would expect the Rockets and Mavs to go hard after him.

nah we're going after him bro.

My apologies. I have never noticed you say anything positive about him, but there are a lot of posters on the board and I just missed those comments.

Now, I have seen you write quite a bit about not bringing him back. You keep mentioning his lack of scoring. Right?

I do think your post was well written and you made some very good points.

However, it is going to come down to this: I think we need to try to win the championship this upcoming year. You don't replace TT w/a 2nd round pick who has a rep of defending and rebounding in college. Again, NOT ONE TEAM in the playoffs had an answer for TT.

May I ask why you did not post playoff numbers? Heck, why don't you post Game 6 numbers in the GS series? I know you love stats, right? I wonder if playing big on the biggest stage is important?

On a team w/a lot of offensive weapons, why would we not value a guy who doesn't demand shots and can rebound and defend? TT changes the way teams defend us and it helps open up outside shooters and cutters. And he does NOT need the ball to be happy. I also bet he can improve a bit offensively. He will never be an outside shooter, but I bet he can become more polished in the low post. We saw some glimpses of those moves in the post season.

My contention is that you win more w/guys like TT than you do w/most of our other players.

I also contend that we are going to keep him.

One more thing............you didn't address my points about the PG position. No one has. Thus, I am wondering if you guys are good w/going into next season w/Kyrie and Delly? Oh.......and as a reminder........I contend that we will NEVER have a better chance to win it all as we will next year.

We disagree on some of these issues, YTown.........but I appreciate the debate. It's fun.