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I've been worried about Mack leaving ever since he and his agent devised a contract with a two year out option. There's no reason to have such a clause in your contract unless it's an option you feel you may use.
I believe anyone who doesn't have concern about that is being a bit naïve. I agree with you. What I believe it MAY hinge on is our record this year. 10 or more wins might provide enough "good feelings" for him to want to stay.  In either case, with the thought of him opting out next year, I was happy we got Irving.
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The fact that guys want out of Cleveland doesn't actually lend itself to a positive atmosphere.
Paying guys like a punter, McCown, and Bowe more than you wanna pay your All Pro FS is not exactly viewed as a positive in the locker room.
Losing more games than you win every year is not positive.
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#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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The fact that guys want out of Cleveland doesn't actually lend itself to a positive atmosphere. Who wanted/wants out of Cleveland? Paying guys like a punter, McCown, and Bowe more than you wanna pay your All Pro FS is not exactly viewed as a positive in the locker room. FAs get overpaid all the time...that doesn't just happen in Cleveland. No on else attempted to sign that All Pro FS (who was injured months ago and still can't practice) not to mention that we have no idea what the Browns may have offered...the Browns played that perfectly. Losing more games than you win every year is not positive. No doubt about that. Winning trumps all. Even though we haven't won yet, I gotta believe that Mack - and others - are looking at this roster and feeling better about our prospects than they have in a long time
Last edited by WSU Willie; 06/30/15 08:38 AM.
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The fact that guys want out of Cleveland doesn't actually lend itself to a positive atmosphere.
That could have an impact, but I would suggest that there are few (if any) who want out because of a negative atmosphere.
Paying guys like a punter, McCown, and Bowe more than you wanna pay your All Pro FS is not exactly viewed as a positive in the locker room.
It's a business, and when it comes down to the crunch, he will be paid what the market going rate is, or his value as viewed by the FO, or he will be gone.
Losing more games than you win every year is not positive.
True, but we are on the upside of the curve. Stay and have the satisfaction of being a part of building a winner, or take the easy road and join an already winning team.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Mack re-signed with us as recently as a year ago...he could have left then if he really wanted. Cameron wanted out? I wanted Cameron to leave. Neither guy said a peep about 'wanting out of Cleveland'. Players come and go all the time...it happens. Who else you got?
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And Irvin wants out of Seattle.
53 guys. Hard to keep everyone happy every year. It's still a business.
While I don't agree with the way Farmer has handled our own FAs, Mack has never impacted the win total.
Man, I can't wait until we find the QB. A lot of this other stuff won't be a big deal.
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My turn to ask a question. Why didn't you challenge 32's assertion that we have a "positive" atmosphere? What proof do you guys have of that?
Oh, and before you get all high and mighty.......you might want to do some research.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 06/30/15 08:57 AM.
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My turn to ask a question. Why didn't you challenge 32's assertion that we have a "positive" atmosphere? What proof do you guys have of that? Well...32 didn't reply to me AND I think the atmosphere has improved based on what I have read. So what would I challenge? Where is YOUR proof that there exists a negative atmosphere right now? See how that works? Oh, and before you get all high and mighty.......you might want to do some research. On your advice I did do some research...where did 32 assert that we have a positive atmosphere? I honestly can't find it.
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Mack re-signed with us as recently as a year ago...he could have left then if he really wanted. IIRC, this is not true. We placed a transition tag on Mack, he signed a deal with Jacksonville and we matched it. He could not have left, and indeed tried to.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
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...32 didn't reply to me AND I think the atmosphere has improved based on what I have read.
Sorry, Willie. Was I owing you a reply? My ssertion that the atmosphere is positive at this time is based on (as Willie stated) what I have read from articles and the fact that the term "dysfunctional" has not appeared anywhere in print lately.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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He could not have left, and indeed tried to. Or, it simply may have been a ploy to get more money out of us. His intention, thus, was never to have left in the first place...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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One can only laugh when they get the BS flag thrown at them and they can't refute it.
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He could not have left, and indeed tried to. Or, it simply may have been a ploy to get more money out of us. His intention, thus, was never to have left in the first place... Yep...happens all the time all over the league...not just in Cleveland.
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One can only laugh when they get the BS flag thrown at them and they can't refute it. I am a bit confused by this post. Was that directed to me, and do I owe you a reply?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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One can only laugh when they get the BS flag thrown at them and they can't refute it. I am a bit confused by this post. Was that directed to me, and do I owe you a reply? Not directed to you and you do not owe me a reply. I'm just jabbing Vers.
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One can only laugh when they get the BS flag thrown at them and they can't refute it. I am a bit confused by this post. Was that directed to me, and do I owe you a reply? Not directed to you and you do not owe me a reply. I'm just jabbing Vers. Gently, I trust... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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He could not have left, and indeed tried to. Or, it simply may have been a ploy to get more money out of us. His intention, thus, was never to have left in the first place... True, but that does not support the claim "that he could have left if he wanted to." That is what I was responding to.
How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?
#gmstrong
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He could not have left, and indeed tried to. Or, it simply may have been a ploy to get more money out of us. His intention, thus, was never to have left in the first place... True, but that does not support the claim "that he could have left if he wanted to." That is what I was responding to. You are correct; he was not going anywhere without our say-so...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I was laughing because of how mixed-up you are about all of this. It ain't worth the time to explain because you don't even wanna hear the truth, so go ahead and keep making fun. You're cool. 
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I find it funny how people try to dissect things that use the most logic.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I was laughing because of how mixed-up you are about all of this. It ain't worth the time to explain because you don't even wanna hear the truth, so go ahead and keep making fun. You're cool. Keep laughing Vers...it's really all you've got here once again. I'll trump your Mack with Dansby and Whitner last year...then Bowe, Hartline, Starks, T Williams, Housler and McCown this year. Wow! Those guys really want out of Cleveland because of the negative atmosphere.You tossed out your usual agenda BS and got called out on it...AGAIN....and your best retort is that your challenger doesn't want to hear some Vers-truth. Shocker.
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8:00 in the morning and you are already full of hate? 
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8:00 in the morning and you are already full of hate? No...having a great morning. You?
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8:00 in the morning and you are already full of hate? Just wondering, where DID 32 assert the atmosphere is improved? I can't find it, can you get me a link
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Originally Posted By: mac
Hard to blame any player for wanting to win... [/color]
Certainly not, but that is only one aspect.
Money - important, but could be made with any other team.
Location - nice to be near "home", but not essential.
Atmosphere - positive in Cleveland; have not heard "dysfunctional" used lately.
Winning - we are getting close. Do you want to go to a winner, or do you stay and help build a winner? I suggest that latter is much more satisfying...
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j/c...
Last year the team was totally revamped - New Regime and the local and national atmosphere was that the Browns were dysfunctional and could not provide stability.
Without question Farmer and Pettine has turned that thought process around. Without a question this time last year the players had to have great concern...but in the 12 months that has transpired it is obvious to me that almost all the players have bought into the new program. Like all the coaches and the stability that has transpired even if we did make some changes in the Offense.
Now this is pretty much fact - I'm sure there will be some grumblers don't know where. But Pettine has been a darn good leader.
Now was there any news btw on our Camps. Or is this bantering a product of the Dead Zone.
I hope when there actually is football out there it will stop. Until then you guys have fun... lol 
Btw...the Mercenary Pitbulls are 1-0 winning their opener 26-0. Next game July 11th our home opener. There is football going on out there... 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Without question Farmer and Pettine has turned that thought process around. Without a question this time last year the players had to have great concern...but in the 12 months that has transpired it is obvious to me that almost all the players have bought into the new program. Like all the coaches and the stability that has transpired even if we did make some changes in the Offense. I disagree. I think there is no way you can say "Without question..." In fact, I think it has gotten worse. There were more substantiated stories about tampering, texting, roster control, etc than there ever has been before. Last year it was rumors. This year there were reports from coaches and an actual fine handed down by the NFL.
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Originally Posted By: mac
Hard to blame any player for wanting to win... [/color]
Certainly not, but that is only one aspect.
Money - important, but could be made with any other team.
Location - nice to be near "home", but not essential.
Atmosphere - positive in Cleveland; have not heard "dysfunctional" used lately.
Winning - we are getting close. Do you want to go to a winner, or do you stay and help build a winner? I suggest that latter is much more satisfying... Oh, so it wasn't 32, it was Mac. OK,, That clears that up. Atmosphere in cleveland is more positive. There isn't anything to refute that statement in and of itself. About the only person on this board that speaks of Dysfuncation these days is you and maybe one or two other posters. I get the sense that because we are in a lull right now, that sometimes leads to feeling better about things than perhaps we should. I get that. But, my general perception (and it's just my perception not known fact) that as a city/area/region that lives and dies with the Browns, optimism is up. I don't know many (any really) that think Manziel is the answer. But beyond that, most are happy we are building a strong foundation. That I think is very true. JMO, but that's what I personally believe. So yeah, I'd say the atmosphere is generally trending up.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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From our Banner, Lombardi, Chud firing - You are saying the atmosphere is worse. I know I wear those Brown n Orange glasses but if that is what you truly see...I have to question your glasses.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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No, 32 was responding to mac's quote.
Look, I wasn't attacking 32. He voiced his opinion. No big deal. I disagreed w/it and Willie came along and called me out. I told him to do some research and he got all confused. I wasn't asking him to research 32? LOL
I was asking him to do research about which teams don't the players want to play for. The Browns were 3rd from the bottom, just ahead of Buffalo and Oakland.
I wanted him to research Cameron's contract in Miami. Quotes from and about Mack. He turned things around and acted like I was the one who was whacked.
Go ahead, do the research for yourself. You'll see what I am talking about.
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I am using facts. You are using rumors. Put your glasses on that.
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I didn't see facts Vers..where? Show me - just saying so isn't fact. Worse than the atmosphere of last year when in one year we were doing a total REDO...come on. Get a new prescription - you ain't seeing things.
I like the way Your opinion is fact and mine is Homerism...lol
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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No, 32 was responding to mac's quote.
Look, I wasn't attacking 32. He voiced his opinion. No big deal. I disagreed w/it and Willie came along and called me out. I told him to do some research and he got all confused. I wasn't asking him to research 32? LOL
I was asking him to do research about which teams don't the players want to play for. The Browns were 3rd from the bottom, just ahead of Buffalo and Oakland.
I wanted him to research Cameron's contract in Miami. Quotes from and about Mack. He turned things around and acted like I was the one who was whacked.
Go ahead, do the research for yourself. You'll see what I am talking about. I think you have some facts wrong, but to be sure, I went back and did just a LITTLE research. First, you got the Calling Out thing backwards. you called willie out.. Not the other way around.. This is your quote from further up this page. My turn to ask a question. Why didn't you challenge 32's assertion that we have a "positive" atmosphere? What proof do you guys have of that?
That's you doing the calling out.. Just thought you might like to know..
Last edited by Damanshot; 07/01/15 09:10 AM.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Fact 1: Shanny [an actual coach] spoke about things going on in the FO and wrote a 32 point presentation to Haslam to justify his release from the team. You might not like Shanny. You have--and will--call him names, but the FACT is that it really happened.
Fact 2: Farmer was suspended by the league for the first four games of this upcoming season for inappropriately texting during games.
Fact 3: Cameron left Cleveland for Miami even though the contract was the same.
I will not add in any rumors. And all you have about Banner is rumors. There were no coaches who asked for their release because of how screwed-up the FO was. There were no penalties imposed by the NFL onto the FO. All that we had against them was a ton of negative rumors fueled by an angry press and fan base. Gee, The Three Stooges moniker must be a fact because a media guy said so.
See that.
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Why do you ask when you don't want the answer. I responded to 32. I did NOT respond to Willie until after he called me out. Sheesh!
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FACT: Banner was fired. I don't know if there is anymore definitive proof than that that things were not all hunky dory with Banner. There was just no one to report about his dysfunctions.
FACT: Mike Lombardi and LaCanfora were buddies. LaCanfora broke a lot of stories about the Browns. They were good stories when Lombardi was employed. They were bad stories when Lombardi was fired.
FACT: Every team in the league has dysfunction. The most dysfunctional team just won their fourth Super Bowl.
FACT: Players want off even Super Bowl winning teams sometimes.
I know where you're going with your posts. I agree with you more than eo. I think as a fanbase we need to be more objective. We need to understand what we are watching better. How anyone can predict we will improve on last year's record is ignoring the obvious - that we don't have a QB. We are in for a very long year.
But this whole dysfunctional notion is way overblown.
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Fact one is a fact but I don't respect Shanny the way you do. All this transpired on his EXIT which was in his plans long before the season end. I don't have to tell you what I think of him.
Fact two is indeed a fact. I'm not quite sure how that is worse than having the FO fired from last year. TEXT vs Upheaval. Not a bright feather in his cap but not hard for him to put it behind him. I don't see the mistrust and travesty from the Local or National media. Oh it was news a month or so ago cause we were in the dead zone but if continued negatives we have not heard anything. It was news the suspension was handed down and pretty much we have heard hardly anything come of it. I think the words Mountain vs. Mole Hill regarding this indeed fact.
Cameron...yes, he did - I can sort of see why. I would move for Tanehill over McCown also. I would move also to Florida who's tax laws given him probably close to a mil more in liquid income. I would move also if I have injuries and the warm weather benefits me?
I'm sure the saying the Climate was better for him in Miami to Cleveland is true in several ways.
As far as I'm concerned. Unfortunately he probably will not last the contract. But yes without a doubt he preferred Miami to us. There are no Steeler, Ravens and Bengal Defense there.
Smoking gun - its a guy making a movement. A California WR type of TE. We are looking to Tough it smack time football here. I understand it. I don't think he hated our coaching staff, I'm sure he hated our instability with especially our QBs without a doubt. Probably the fact we changed OC whether it was Shanny leaving or us not wishing to move forward fact is we changed the OC again.
So I understand and can see why he moved. But not a testimony that we are in disarray.
Guess what Revis moved from the PATS. Suh from the Lions. Its called FA not a testimony to the team being in disarray.
Again this is how I look at it. And having some negatives which are facts...it does not prove your comments that things have gotten worse in the Players views nation wide and within our teams then we were last year.
Not even close. Facts don't alway mean your opinion is correct just the facts.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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