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Everything Else?

I'm not sure. I'm unable to find the rules about explicit sexual talk on this board. 4Chan would be a better place. Fit right in.

absoultly agree. there should be no Urban Dictionary crap like he use. the guy does it all the time.

Wait...............did you miss this one?



What does that have to do w/real football?

I freaking posted an article. He questioned why I posted it. I explained why. He resorted to his usual insults. Why the hell did you ignore his crap?

I am not kidding you..............I am sick of the biased BS on this forum.

I will not back down and I hope some of the silent readers start voicing their opinion instead of remaining silent because of the mob that ridicules anyone who doesn't agree w/them.

War.

Until the philosophy which hold one group superior
And another
Inferior
Is finally
And permanently
Discredited
And abandoned
Everywhere is war
Me say war.

That until there no longer
First class and second class citizens of any board
Until the opinions of each poster
Is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes
Me say war.

That until the basic human rights
Are equally guaranteed to all,
Without regard to homerism
Dis a war.

That until that day
The dream of lasting peace,
Board citizenship
Rule of message board morality
Will remain in but a fleeting illusion to be pursued,
But never attained
Now everywhere is war - war.

And until the ignoble and unhappy regimes
That demonize our brothers who are fans of the Browns,
In Cleveland
Across the United States
Sub-human beings
Have been toppled,
Utterly destroyed
Well, everywhere is war
Me say war.

War in the east,
War in the west,
War up north,
War down south
War - war
Rumours of war.
And until that day,
The Brown's nation
Will not know peace,
We Brown's fans will fight - we find it necessary
And we know we shall win
As we are confident
In the victory

Of good over evil
Good over evil, yeah!
Good over evil
Good over evil, yeah!
Good over evil
Good over evil, yeah!


Yeah, thanks Marly Mon for the inspiration.

But that was you...

Perhaps because I am afflicted with SRS...Selective Reading Skills.

i speak english. i dont use the Urban Dictionary to run people down slyly. like he does. dare i say cowards do that.

well get banned i get banned. i will call a spade a spade. i still remember the guy calling me a bastard and using his Urban Dictionary as a excuse. pfft he wouldnt do it in front of my face i know that.

Vers, they are sabotaging your thread to get it locked. I can't believe what I read. It went from football to a school yard spat.

I mean come on the article points out flaws. It is no different than last year when media ranked the Browns 32nd. They even stated we draft Mariota with the first pick in the draft. Why is any of this news? Until Browns prove it on the field they are and will ever more be labeled as weak. To me, they have every right since Browns yet produce a product deeming different.

Thanks for saying that, bugs.

You and I disagree on where the Browns are at, but I hope it is safe to say that we disagree w/each other respectfully.

I don't know if it was on this thread or not, but I mentioned guys like Mourg, Clem, ddub, Pit, etc, and how we disagree but can do so in a respectful manner......I knew I forgot some guys and you are one.

Peace brother............

............even if we go at it tomorrow. LOL

I will be happy when training camp begins.

The board this off season has been brutal

Again, what's your point? Is it that my being wrong about Bowe last year makes it easier for you to admit you don't anything about how the QBs will perform this year? Or are you simply attempting to change the subject in your typically smarmy manner to appear somehow superior. Which is it?

If everyone was as perfect as me, it'll be a dull world!!!!

What is sad is there is some pretty good posters if they drop the drama.

Vers, I understand and really like we don't agree at times. It helps me see things in a different light. Sometimes I actually learn something and...gasp...change my thinking!

By the way you're still wrong!!!! LOL!! Na Zdrowie (Cheers)!!!

I have to agree with you.

Last I said at around this time that it was officially "Bicker Season" on dawgtalkers. I'm reminded every year of why I shouldn't check in more than once every few weeks during this lull. Same cast of character, same results.

At this moment I risk sounding more self-important that I would like. I really don't believe the world revolves around me but I can't think of a better way of saying this...

This forum appears to have really slipped off of its axis since my dust up with Vers a few days ago. If that is true, I regret that. Can't we pull back to our normal level of smoldering resentments and dysfunction?

I'd really like to keep the Refs out of this.

Oh the drama...no one on this board attacks posters more often than you. Pot meet kettle just doesn't do it justice.

Okay guys. I have a solution here.






Now everybody!

What are you talking about?

BS! The only time I EVER click on your name is when you make a post like the one I am replying to. You guys gang up on anyone w/a different opinion and then expect us to not say a word about it.

What crap! Trip to the monkey house for poo tossing. Basing subjective rank numbers going forward? About as conceptually stupid as I have seen. So you gin up the "facts" as you have seen them. Totally not valid. Despite three Great Football Minds.

Beats work.

Sadly, I think this thread does accurately depict the Browns future... if not, at the very least, it is a great indicator of the past.

possibly the dumbest thing i've ever read on here.

POV = Point of view. or if you're in the military= Personally owned vehicle.

you knew damn well what he meant by POV.

Can't we just go back to debating about Hoyer?

Wheres BTTB at!?

This is a general reply and not directed to any individual

I knew this thread would turn nasty quickly so i didnt bother but reading the first couple of posts. If you base our future on our last dozen years we should all go bungy jumping without the cords. You can never build anything when you are running through coaches the way we have the last few years. We build for one system scrap it for another on and on and on.

Now if we assume Pet is here for the long haul then our future suddenly looks much brighter.

We have a solid roster that can compete and beat anyone if we get just halfway decent play from the QB. The defense is really good but they have yet to take that step towards closing games. Giving up big plays at the end of games has killed us. We talk about the offense needs that killer instinct but honestly, the defense needs it more. If you play a great game for 55 mins and give up a game winning drive, you just gave up the game winning drive.

Anyway this is the most talent we have had on our roster since 94. I have always graded our roster heading into camp and we were lucky to have 30 players that are worth a roster spot. We will cut a lot of guys this year that are worthy of roster spots. To give you an idea of how bad it was, Mangini's first year, we had about 16 guys that were NFL worthy. We added some talent with Heckert and with Banner but right now, the only ovious hole is at QB and you may not like it but we do have a first round QB that is being groomed to fill that position.

No need to join the wrist cutters club. the sky isnt falling. We are in really good shape to where, decent at the QB position can get us into the playoffs.

j/c

The fact is it appears we blew a great opportunity to draft a QB last year. Actually two of them in Bridgewater and Carr. Will they be great franchise QB's? Only time will answer that question but they both had promising years as rookies. Now people can say that we shouldn't talk about that and we can't change the past. But the fact is that opportunity was blown. Unless by some miracle JFF makes a complete 180, we are where we are because of that.

Nobody in the league respects a team without a QB. And when looking at it objectively, at this time we are a team without a QB. When your own coaching staff says, "We are going to minimize the QB position", it means you don't have a QB. It's not that complicated. Even our own coaching staff is afraid to put the game in the hands of any signal caller we have on our roster.

While it is true that nobody can say as a 100% guarantee that our QB's will suck this year, what they can do is look at every possible indicator of what they'll do. McCown has a very long NFL career and it has sucktitude written all over it with one minor exception in a five game run over what, 15 years? Yeah, it's hard to fathom an educated guess based on that!



JFF has been, well....JFF. He can't beat out McCown. ( for reference see above )

Now people can debate that on maybe, hope, passion for the Browns or whatever type of rationale they so choose, but there's a mountain of evidence to make a well founded hypothesis that you would not be correct.

The NFL is a QB driven league. That's why it's the most critical position to fill in the NFL and why NFL GM's are judged and valued on their ability or lack there of at drafting a QB. Once again that's not a complicated subject. But whatever you do, let's not discuss that, right?

Let's see, "Hey, this staff won 7 games last year. The best of a new group yet!" So having a losing season being something to celebrate? Less than mediocrity only shows how deprived this team has been in talent and coaching. It's not some great feat to hang your hat on. Another one, "You have bad grammar!".



Yeah that addresses the issue.



Another one, "We're tired of hearing all of the negativity!"

Yes, after not having a Championship since 1964 and the losing tradition since 1999, we should all be heaping praises about what a wonderful tradition we've had since our return rather than being honest and addressing the true issues and what we've actually seen with our own eyes.

And yet another, "We don't like your posting style and the way you say things."

Well guess what sugar plumbs, many of us are not from the PC crowd. We shoot from the hip and don't sugar coat everything to suit everyone else. We have every right to our opinions as the rest of you. And in most cases so far, we've been FAR more accurate in predictions and the direction our team has gone. Even though you don't like hearing it.

Now, back to some more football. In the immortal words of my Jr. High School football coach, "Suck it up Nancy!"



Disclaimer:This is a message from PitDAWG. Our station and its sponsors do not necessarily agree with the views shared and its content.

Spot on Mourgrym. I think the defense needs a little confidence and swagger. Dansby and Whitner is the pill needed to get it started. From a technical perspective and basically what you said, they changed schemes so much they can never get comfortable. It wasn't even little scheme changes 3-4 to 4-3; pressure vs coverage...Davis to Romeo to Mangini/Ryan to Juaron to Horton to Pettine/O'Neil...those are some good DCs that came and went.

You can ditto that to offense.

Just seeing them building something similar for a second year is gratifying. Like them or not I think Davis, Mangini, and Pettine were the only head coaches with a plan. Strange enough Pettine and Farmer maybe the first pair, GM/HC, who work together.

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Pessimism is easy when it comes to the Browns. Optimism has been downright inadvisable for years now. Personally, I'm somewhere in the middle. I see a plan. I see a guy who could be a pretty good coach. I see some foundational pieces. I also see a lot more work to be done.

ESPN.com ranked all 32 NFL teams based on their outlook over the next three seasons. They rated the quarterbacks, the rest of the roster, the coaching, the front office and drafting of each team in order to slot them. Things didn't turn out well for the Browns, coming in 30th.

Look, it all starts at the quarterback position. It's a safe bet the starting quarterback three years from now isn't on the roster. Of course that weighs on the future outlook of the team. But, Louis Riddick points to the first round of the 2014 draft as a prime reason for a bleak outlook:

"The Browns must to find a way to salvage the futures of both their 2014 first-round picks, CB Justin Gilbert and [Johnny] Manziel. There's an accepted philosophical scouting belief that it's OK to occasionally miss when evaluating a prospect's on-field talent, but it's never acceptable to miss on a prospect from a character perspective. That's especially true in the cases of Gilbert and Manziel, who had red sirens going off concerning their ability to handle the pro game off the field. If they are unable to turn things around, the Browns will feel the effects for years to come."

Quarterback troubles and drafting. Stop if you've heard this before. That being said, though, the Browns have actually done well in acquiring talent outside of that so-far-abysmal first round (and no, I haven't abandoned ship on either player, yet, even if I'm not entirely optimistic). The second, third and fourth rounds of the 2014 draft produced contributors. The 2015 draft is getting decent early reviews, even if we have yet to see them play real NFL football. One of the real issues has been stability. When you bring in new coaches and GMs, young players lose advocates and there's no incentive to develop them.

John Clayton takes up that issue:

"Coaching and management changes have hindered the Browns' ability to build a solid young foundation. If Danny Shelton beats out Phil Taylor at nose tackle, Cleveland will have only three starters from its 2011-14 draft classes -- guard Joel Bitonio, tackle Mitchell Schwartz and linebacker Barkevious Mingo."

Clayton goes on to praise the Browns for undrafted finds like Tashaun Gipson, Craig Robertson, Isaiah Crowell and others to offset some drafting failures. See? Even over at ESPN it's not all bleak.

link: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/06/the_futures_not_so_bright_clev.html

Yup, Yup, Yup

Pitt, I think you are counting eggs before they hatch. Remember how well RG iii played his first vs second and third years. Sam Bradford's best year was his first too.

Neither Raiders or Vikings did much helping their offensive lines. It should be worth watching how both teams perform adding skill position over lineman. Even better question does both Bridgewater and Carr make a whole season.

It becomes a very interesting debate if halfway through this season Bridgewater and Carr get hurt vs. Manziel holding a clipboard another season. Better yet Bridgewater and Carr don't get hurt but take a beating all season and team struggles.

I don't know much about the raiders.

but for the vikings, Teddy should have a better season. All Day is back, so i don't see Teddy getting banged up like that.

Yup and worse yet the Browns downgraded and did so purposely. But lets not call a spade a spade lets say it was a lateral move....

Then lets say we are going to minimize the position and really make everyone out side of Cleveland spit out their coffee laughing at us, again............



Hurt both Carr and Bridgewater have value holding a clip board Johnny has little value and if he actually plays he has even less value....SAD

Just something to add to your list of things that make you sad and mad................

Actually BTTB Browns moved up! Last year they ranked Cleveland dead last having no receivers, no experience HC, new front office, untested QB, and missing pieces in Browns defense.

I can't argue with you. I can sit here all day saying the sun is rising, but if we haven't seen it in several years, it is really hard convincing. On the flip-side, it is equally hard believing, assuming FO and HC stay in place, Browns can't make any improvements over last year. Even with the argument Browns didn't add any new the sheer fact guys improve from one year to the next.

It all boils down to the glass half full or half empty.

Personally, I'd be ecstatic if both sides of the football finish the season. Defense played ending last season strong, offense, well, not so much. Finishing strong means there is pride and a foundation. Otherwise, I think the offense, worse yet the entire team, implodes and start again. If both sides accomplish this goal, I think their win record will show well too.

What makes you better rehab or work in the off season? If McCown does as well as you predict, we will see Manziel. Then, we start/finish the debate, from the old board, build the OL or get skill positions first.

You can argue all day about some things but its impossible to say we have the kind of impact play makers that turn the tide.

We have a group of solid football players and that would be great if we paired it with a quality QB, but we can't.

Can't argue that last years impact picks (1st round) was horrid. Like the writer said I haven't lost all hope but its close on Johnny.

Those are the guys that HAVE to be your difference makers.

Yes we have closed the poor top of the draft gap via late round and UDFA, but those guys aren't impact difference makers, their roll players and its unlikely they will ever be much more then that.

You can say well its better then what we had, and it is and you can also say.... SO WHAT.

What I mean by that is it still adds up to being the same old Browns and it looks like this last draft was solid at the top but missed on what we need most impact, difference makers. The draft was more along the lines of the status quo, so what?

When the obvious need to be bold and daring presents itself we seem lacking, and that concerns me and from a fans perspective lateral movement seems to be OK.

I guess my concern is this we are content to move laterally when we need to move vertically. We have plenty of head space yet lateral is good/great.

This is a saying I never agreed with. Any way you slice it, it's a half a glass.

And I'm really not being premature in my evaluation of Bridgewater or Carr. I believe I did indicate that my observations are "as of now". What I can say that as of now they both show promise and it would appear they have the ingredients needed to show promise. They have a skill set that is needed to be successful NFL QB's. So far it appears they are making good progress at transitioning to the NFL game.

I think those are ingredients you should expect an NFL GM to be able to recognize and identify when drafting a QB. Now you can draft a "gimmick QB" which is what I see in QB's like RG3 and JFF or you can draft a QB like Bradford who later becomes injured. Nobody can stop or be responsible for injuries that do occur in the NFL.

There's another term thrown around I find silly at best. "He's already reached his ceiling".

You have QB's the same age with pretty much the same amount of experience. Yet people try to insinuate that because one or two QB's have done better in the same time frame, that they somehow won't continue to progress? That sounds like very flawed logic to me. It sounds to me like that QB actually has done a better job of learning in the same time frame which would indicate there's every possibility that he's very adaptable and teachable. Actually the exact opposite of the term "reached his ceiling".

I'm certainly not calling Farmer a bust. I'm not calling for his job. I do find it concerning that he chose to draft an undersized gimmick style QB when there were better choices available. That doesn't mean the other two are going to be great. What it means is that given what we've seen, they are certainly having a much easier time adapting and being productive coming into the NFL. And isn't that the main ingredients you're looking for when drafting a QB?

Farmer has time to grow and become better at drafting skill players in the NFL. He was a rookie GM. I'm sure we're all hoping that's what happens. I just think people wish to gloss over and try their best to get people to drop something that should be at least something that should be of some concern to everyone moving forward.

I daresay that there is not a soul on this board who doesn't have concern for the mid- and long-range QB position. McCown should be able to bridge the coming 2 years and Manziel we really don't know as yet as to whether he is a viable option or not...

Considering the overall evidence in the long career of McCown, I would suggest that he is more aptly compared to a sinking ship rather than a bridge.