DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Poor innocent Christians beat up at a gay-pride parade.

Only in your immediate jurisdiction.

I know and that's the sad part because like God wants all to come to repentance so do I

Oh please, you've been all over this board whining about the confederate flag being removed from government buildings. You trying to equate the rainbow flag to the confederate battle flag is laughable.

The rainbow flag offends me far more than the confederate one. No one cares that I am offended so why should I care if they get offended. Let each city decide for itself what is appropriate IMHO.

I want an America where I am not forced to do bad things to obey the law. God's law for a Christian should always come first because men are foolish and just do the things they want instead of what is best for mankind.

What bad things are you forced to do to obey the law in America?

If Jesus read this thread do you think he would be displeased about what is being said in his name or his fathers?

Hate, Bigotry, Blasphemy, Lies and Deceit...

When I read these things and the way many so called Christians relate to the world, I wonder why there are not more open Atheist. I know each religion has it's bad apples but this is just sad to see in America. Such soulless disdain for anyone not like them that they must act this way over something that will have very little if any impact on their own lives. Ridiculous.

Because you've CHOSEN to be more offended by it.
Your words/your choice.

Other Americans have made a different choice of which symbol they find more 'offensive.'

We're all allowed that, as citizens of this great country.

Personally, I see two flags with different color schemes. Each mean something different to virtually anyone who looks upon them. I see a "rainbow flag," -and see it as a symbol of disenfranchised Americans who have been working hard to gain the rights that every American should have been allowed to take for granted, by virtue of their citizenship. You apparently see it as a symbol of people that are deserving of second- (or 3rd- or 4th-) class citizenship.

I see the Confederate battle flag, and see Americans' limp bodies hanging from Poplar trees, churches ablaze, and Night Riders- dressed in bedsheets, terrorizing the midnight countryside... while Their Fellow Americans cowered in terror for their own mortality.

You apparently seem to see this 'symbol' as more benign than a rainbow.

"Each to his own," I guess.

____________________

Do you think that Your God sees either as more reprehensible than the other?
Does he He have a 'sliding scale of abomination,' where such is concerned?

...or are we to tacitly believe that YOUR interpretation of God's Word is what we ALL should adopt as our own?


Trust me when I say this: your 'flag preference' has NOTHING to do with God's Plan for all of us.
It has everything to do with your own social indoctrination as to what you BELIEVE is right for this country.


And I thank God on a daily basis, that He saw fit to keep the running of our country from the likes of you.

Joe Biden, Mitch McConnell, and their respective ilk- as bad as they are- are infinitely better than a country run by those who see America through your personal lens... because of this statement:





In short: you're still free. Free to believe and feel as you've always been. Just as I'm still free to live as an American who sees this nation as a place of promise. This time, I'm OK with what the SCOTUS has decided. You're just butt-hurt, because they didn't decide the way YOU think they should have.

And now you feel oppressed.
Well... welcome to How America Works, my friend.

Suck it up.
Grow a pair, and stop whining to someone who's not trying to hear this wimpyazz crap.

Are you White?
Are you Male?

Then it's time for you to face a harsh truth about America.... quite possibly for the first time, in more than 300+ years.... a harsh Truth that has been My Family's legacy since this land mass actually BECAME a 'nation':

Sometimes, s#!t doesn't go your way.

As a Black American, I've been forced to deal with decisions that have systemically held back my American demographic for not years, decades... but for GENERATIONS. And for but a few instances, God's 'Americans' said absolutely nothing. They stood by, and allowed my ancestors be slaughtered, dehumanized, and treated like disposable farm animals.

Where was My God- YOUR God when all that was happening?
Was He 'A-OK' with 1790's America's version of His Word?






Thank you for making my point for me.


Perhaps you should take a deeper look at your own point-of-view (and what it says about you- a 'Disciple Of Christ') before you make such an intractable stance on nuances of life that so obviously seem to escape you.

______________


To date, I've never known a 'rainbow flag' to be directly associated with the murder of American citizens. I can't say the same for the Confederate Battle Flag.


As a fellow lover of Christ's Message Unto Us All, I ask you this:

"Won't you PLEASE reconsider your priorities?"

In my own humble opinion, I believe it's what Jesus would ask of you.

Unless 'your version of Jesus' includes Him waving a Confederate battle flag, as he leads a failed, secessionist nation in an uprising that split an entire nation in half.

You have your preferences; I have mine.
Your post tells us where your true biases lie.

Jesus might have an issue or two with you.

Just sayin'...

As a Christian I am offended that so many people worry more about gay marriage than they do abortion. Just how many innocent babies are killed by gay marriage?

I would agree with the idea that we should all be fighting against abortion, and that it is a truly repugnant and abhorrent desecration of life. It is a sin, because destroying an innocent life is a sin. However, I don't know that just because one is wrong, that the other isn't as well. There is a danger in trying to accept one sin just because it isn't "as bad as" another. Is telling a friend's wife that he is still at work, when he is out cheating on her a "major sin"? Well, according to the Bible, all sin offends God, and all sin is deadly. I truly worry when we play games of which sin is worse, to try and lessen a particular sin. The thing we all need to remember is that we need to repent all of our sins, and move away from sin. Does anyone truly believe that Jesus wants "followers" who consistently cheat people, steal from them, lie, cheat on their spouses, and even murder another person's life's work in a malicious manner? Is that the kind of person Jesus wants us to be? I don't believe so, and further, I do not believe that we can truly repent of our sins and still pursue them with the zeal of a man on a crusade.

Acts 15:23-29 gave us Gentiles the basics for what is, and is not allowed.

and they sent this letter by them,

“The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings.

24“Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls,
25it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27“Therefore we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word of mouth.
28“For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials:
29that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell.”

This does not say that we can violate the 10 commandments. They were speaking of all of the "other" laws tha the religious leaders of the time tried to impose on Christians, especially trying to tell new Gentile Christians that they had to be circumcised, even as an adult. However, even here, sexual immorality is seen as so abhorrent that it gets its own, specific mention. What is sexual immorality? Well, based on what Jesus taught, it is adultery, or sex outside of marriage .... or even having multiple wives. Jesus also clearly defined what marriage is.

I honestly do not realize why so many Christians are fighting against what Jesus Himself said. My very best friend since High School has a lesbian daughter. I understand that it is not an easy thing to discuss. His wife has talked to the daughter about this, using Biblical terms, and despite the fact that the daughter says she is a Christian, she is living with another woman in a sexual relationship. She uses the "The Bible doesn't say that anything I am doing is wrong" routine anytime my friend's wife broaches the subject. She claims to be a Christian, and even attends a church where she lives ..... yet she refuses to look at her own sin.

In the end, this is what we will all have to do for ourselves. We all have to look at our own sins. We all have to read the Bible and judge for ourselves whether or not we are living in a sinful manner, bound for judgement, or whether we are living as a member of the body of Christ.

I do think that people can have difficulties breaking free of their sins. I do think that people can be saved while making a genuine (and only the person, and God know how sincere they are) attempt to change. However, those who are unrepentant, and those who thumb their noses at God ..... or who create their own God who does what they want, instead of us doing what he wants ..... well, those are the ones the Bible says are heading for trouble.

I don't want to take that road. I believe in Jesus Christ, s I am doing my best to follow and obey Him. I will point out what is sinful activity according to the Bible, and will try to explain why the Bible says it is a sin .... but in the end, the decision lies with the sinner. I know that there are people on this board who are homosexual and transsexual, or who are involved in a relationship with such people. Many of these folks are really nice people .... they are, by earthly measures, really good people. Unfortunately, they are also in violation of what Jesus taught. Now I realize that many on this board have made up their minds as to what they are going to do, and that is their perfect right to do. Every single one of us has the right to decide for ourselves what we are going to do. However, maybe a young kid who is having sexual urges can be saved from going down the road. Do I think that a person with strictly homosexual urges can become a heterosexual? No. not if they are truly homosexual. They will probably always have those urges. However, they can choose to abstain from sexual activities, if they want to follow Christ. We all have urges we must abstain from. Some have to control their violence. Others have to resist temptation to cheat on their spouses. Others have to work to abstain from greed and covetousness. The list goes on. Sexual urges are specifically singled out by Paul. Why? Because the body of the believer is to be a temple for Jesus Christ. This means that we are to keep the temple as pure as possible. The easiest way to defile the temple is with sexual lusts. We all have them. God expects us to resist them when they are inappropriate, just as He has taught us. We may slip, but God is always willing to forgive a truly contrite believer. A repentant heart, where the believer truly and completely and are grieved by their sinful actions, will always be forgiven. This is God's promise to us all. However, He does not say that we can keep a favorite sin or 2 for ourselves, and place those above God .... obeying the rest perfectly, but purposefully pursuing those sins above anything God says. Even a single sin is deadly for us. We have to realize this, and repent of all of our sins .... not just the ones we can easily do without.

There is a real danger in telling people their their sins are just fine. We give them the idea that their sin is "not that bad", when God says that all sin offends Him. I truly worry about those who believe that they can sin in an unrepentant manner, because they are "saved" ..... even though they continue to thumb their noses at God ....... and also who lead people to sin in such a way. The Bible is clear on certain things, and this is one idea that comes through clearly. We ignore it at our own peril.

God leaves that decision up to ourselves though.

I also want to address the idea that informing someone of a sin is "judging" them.

Imagine with me, if you will, that you are out with a friend of yours, and you go to a store to pick up a few things for a cook-out. You are real careful about what you spend, because your friend, who is splitting the bill with you, is almost broke. When you leave the store, he looks over to his right, and sees a jewelry store. He says, "Oh man, that reminds me, I have to pick up something nice for my girl." You, of course, would say .. "Man, I thought that you were broke". He says, "Oh, I am, but that doesn't matter." "It doesn't matter?" you say. "Nope, I said "pick up", not "buy.'"You are shocked, and say, "You can't do that. It's illegal, and what if you get caught?" He says, "Oh, I do it all the time, and I have never been caught." He then proceeds to show you both pockets full of stuff he stole from the store you were just in. He tells you that he steals something from every store he goes to. He is very good at ot,m and had never been caught.

If you inform him of the illegality, and potential consequences, of his actions, are you judging him, or informing him of the law, the penalties he faces if caught, and trying to help your friend off a path that almost certainly leads to jail if he continues as he is doing?

I don't thin that anyone would say that you are "judging" your friend if you point out that what he is doing is wrong in the eyes of the law, and in the eyes of the Lord, and that he could face serious consequences if he is caught.

The only difference for us trying to help someone see their own sin and move away from it is that, in the case of the believer trying to help someone get out of their sin, God is the police, and God is the judge, and He does not miss a single piece of evidence. When we die we are all "caught".

Back to our unrepentant shoplifter, if you could help save him from himself, if you could help him stop what he is doing, and thus ensure that he stays out of jail, would you? Or, would you just say to yourself .... "Well,he is my best friend, but it's his decision. I don't have the right to tell him that he is doing anything wrong.", and then go sit in the car until he comes out?

What would you do? If you do point out that what he is doing is illegal, are you judging him, or just trying to help him see that what he is doing is wrong, and that it could have serious consequences for him?

I know where I stand on this issue. What would you (anyone reading this) do? If you confront him, are you judging him, or trying to help him?

Which state or federal gov't is sanctioning the rainbow flag and flying it on a government flag pole with a law that states it can't ever be removed?

Any U.S. citizen that isn't offended by this or any confederate flag flying on a government flag pole at the cost of our tax dollars is on the wrong side of this issue and in a very small minority.

Oh, so NOW he wants the majority to rule. The two faces of opinion have spoken.

You're on the wrong side bro. Let it go.

I'll bet lighting up the White House in rainbow colors cost more than a flag on a pole.

Give it a break....Was the WH lit up like that for 150 years, with a law saying nobody can shut it off? You good ole boys crack me up.

I could care less about that flag, Oklahoma was Indian territory, it wasn't part of the Union or Confederacy. It has no history here. You brought up tax dollars, so you can give it a break.

You do know the Jews were slaves to Egypt for hundreds of years, right?

I wonder if the advice they would give you would be...

Suck it up.
Grow a pair, and stop whining to someone who's not trying to hear this wimpyazz crap.


Sometimes, doesn't go your way.

Historians constantly show there was no exodus from Egypt, and definitely no israeli slave trade. The only evidence of slaves, sketchy at best, may link them to Levites. They were a tiny population of the overall slaves in Egypt, too.

Another swing and a miss of the hammer missing the nail. Come on 40, you could at least research some of these extraordinary claims.

I have edited several posts on this thread for profanity and masked profanity. Please refrain from posting profanity per the board rules.

Got to love it when you good ole boys bring up an analogy to the Rainbow on this subject then say you "could care less" when shown that it doesn't hold water in the discussion. Some of you guys just can't admit that you do care about the flag of hate and still want it to fly high.

Why on earth would he when he can pervert history to fit his agenda like all the politicians do these days.

Clem you crack me up sometimes. The rainbow flag stands for immorality and disgusting sexual perversion so yes it offends me. It stands for public acceptance of living a life of sin so yes it offends me. it's not a choice because I couldn't change how something like that makes me feel even if I wanted to.

Yeah sometimes things don't go God's way but that doesn't mean his children should stop the good fight to make it his way. When I ask does God want the state saying its ok to be support acts he considers an abomination the obvious answer is NO. Therefore logic says I should fight against what he doesn't like since he is my eternal king.

The rebel flag no longer stands for the same thing it used to. It just represent being a country boy living off the land and living a simple life. Yes, I can see how people are offended by what it used to mean or stand for and I don't blame them for it but at the same time it was over 100 years ago. It's time to move on IMHO.

Any talk of slavery if full of hypocrisy. It tries to act like white people enslaved all the black people. That is simply not true. In fact it was African murdering other Africans and then selling their own victims and war prizes. If you want to be mad then be mad at the Africans who enslaved your ancestors. There were also a LOT less slaves in America than there was in the rest of the world too.

I have know plenty of people from Africa that came to America and did just fine and are very successful. Its not skin color that holds someone back it's their attitude. When they give up all this victim nonsense and get off their butts they can find work. If they study and work hard they can go to college too. Hell, it can actually be easier to go to college as a poor person than someone from middle class. There are TONS and TONS of scholarships available to a hardworking student who gets off their butt and applies for them.

Take the race whining and grow a pair yourself. Change the culture of poverty before you worry about their skin color because black, or white if you grew up in total poverty your chances of escaping it is very slim because you have no one to show you HOW. Not because you can't.

My priority is that GOD comes first. His laws come first. If you call yourself a Christian put God first instead of the people you know lost in sin being offended and lead them to God instead. Let God work the change while you just live your life the way God told you too. You can live for the next 100 years giving mankind what they bellyache over or you can live for the sake of your eternal soul. I know what is more important to me and my priorities are in order. If nothing else I would like to prevent my country from earning God's wrath because he is a LOT harsher than I would ever be.

C'mon man ! Leave the Duke Boys out of this! Those poor guys never meanin no harm. Its not their fault they got caught up in all the middle of this nonsense. Yeah, they had the flag on top of the General Lee, and no they didn't have a lot of black characters, but the one who made several appearances, the Sheriff of Chickasaw Co. was a legit dude and he was actually a respectable character...

and besides, without that show, all the rappers of the '80s and '90s wouldn't have been singin about "daisy dukes".......

Given your life experiences, I won't begrudge you for your feelings on the subject. But there are a couple things I'd like to point out:

1) Many of the people that I've seen in favor of the Confederate Flag aren't KKK or trying to bring back slavery or Jim Crow. Many are actually a younger generation that have embraced it as symbolic of Southern culture. Now contrary to what progressives and some people on this board will tell you, Southern culture has nothing to do with slavery or race. Its more family based, religious based, FOOD based, predicated mostly on manners, and generally accepted rules of social conduct. Its a lifestyle that is slower and waaaaay more laid back than the Northern lifestyle.

It may have stood for some of the darkest periods in American history, but I just can't help but think of how much of a societal triumph it would be to embrace the positives that it represents TODAY, instead of censoring it and ultimately making it a sign of this countries... redemption is probably the wrong word... but I just think we are missing out on an opportunity to show true PROGRESS.

2) While there were many people who stood by and allowed these things to happen to your ancestors, there were many who didn't. With all due respect, I think its dishonest of you to come across as any and all progress made in this country was solely fought for and gained by black people only. Tens of thousands of white people died in the Civil War on the Union side. Out of the few thousand lynchings of the last century, several hundreds murdered were white, and they were killed because they were 'sypathizers'. Underground Railroad never would have existed if white Northerners AND Southerners didn't risk life and all their property to do the right thing. And how quickly we forget how all those white faces who marched with MLK huh?

I'm not accusing you of this, but anyone who says there has been no progress in this country is a flat out liar and the people pushing that belief are exploiting black people of today for their own profit.

3) Before you talk about poor blacks of today being kept down by 'white institutions', recognize and admit that THE biggest group of people oppressing them are violent black gangs.
-White people aren't keeping black kids form going to school
-White people aren't going in to poor black neighborhoods and shooting up the joint
-Even if you believe the CIA introduced crack to black communities, its not a white guy in a suit slinging rock on the corner
-It wasn't white people en masse that went in to Ferguson and Baltimore and looted and rioted and destroyed the livelihoods and what little economic opportunity and investment there was.

Of course not all black folks in these communities are gang bangers. Certainly not even the majority. But there are enough gang members and sympathizers that have had a devastating impact on poor black communities.

So of course no one wants to invest in these communities. Who in their right mind would? Why should I open a business where my employees will be robbed every night? Why should I open a community center that would be burned down without a second thought over a crackhead, then be told it's MY fault that I'm not doing enough? If I'm a teacher, why would I ever go somewhere I'm threatened daily, and try to educate children in an environment that is counter-productive because being educated is seen as being 'white'?

This is where the modern civil rights movement is having an epic failure. They keep trying to make martyrs out of people like Mike Brown and Freddie Gray who are the biggest predators of poor black folks.

Hey, Devil. Thoughtful post, as usual. Always enjoy seeing your POV.



Sorry about my omission of Whites in the Civil Rights movement. It was not an omission on purpose, more that there is only so much typing I can do on a subject. I'm not blind to that piece of history at all, and I'm sorry if my omission painted me as a Blacks-only absolutist. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm glad you DIDN'T accuse me of thinking as you outlined. You made many points in entry 3, and I'd like to address them some other time. Instead, I'd like to go to your last line, and discuss it.



IMHO, what you described is a symptom of the disease. The root cause is a dearth of intellectual leadership the equal of Dr. King. I mentioned months ago in (I think) Vers' thread that many of the truly qualified successors to Dr. King's legacy migrated away from his model to find homes in academia. Still others abandoned the national initiative to work in local communities. So the vacuum that formed in Dr. King's absence was filled by the likes of Jackson & Sherpton. King had at his core, a sense of social morality that had him preaching accountability, responsibility and ethics to the Black community all the time. The also-rans who came after him? Not even fit to open his door.

I'm not sure there will ever be another like MLK. I'm not sure that current times would even allow for such a person to galvanize so many from such different walks of life.