DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Presidential Hopefuls

See now we can agree on somethings. I DO think those that can work should. I do think people should live within their means. BUT I also think if your working you shouldn't be starving. For that matter nobody should go hungry, homeless or without medical care in the richest country on earth! I can't imagine Jesus Christ would have a different view, nor should anyone IMHO.

I also think that those who are willing to bust their butts should be able to earn extra, save and build wealth. BUT I don't think it is as easy as it use to be. I was a 60s child. I saw good times. We don't live like that anymore. You literally have to kill yourself to get ahead just a little now... and that's bull crap.

I'm not afraid of hard work. Worked hard for years. Owned more than one solid business. Made a lot of money. Paid Taxes.

During the Bush years I had health issues arise that hit me hard financially. I lost my business due to the banks failing. I was in a business that required me to be able to secure credit for consumers to purchase my wares.

I lost a business, savings and took major hits to my credit... NOT ONE BIT OF IT WAS MY DOING. So I'm pissed about the way things work. I used to be a brain dead Republican drone just like you, BUT I had to learn the hard way that that stuff you spew isn't true.

- Not everybody needing help is a parasite... most are good hard working people.

- Bankruptcy only has a bad connotation to the poor and working class... The rich understand it is a tool and use it frequently.

- No matter what you build, you can lose it... and fast.

So save the BS when you talk to me 40. You have NEVER paid for a food stamp in your life... You paid taxes. You have never carried the poor on your back... You paid Taxes. AND even if the welfare roles were cleared YOU would still pay those taxes, the GOP would pass the savings to the rich. Wake up.

I despise seeing you and others call people in need parasites! These are people, not some nuisance petulance! Children going hungry is NOT OK. Elderly going hungry is NOT OK. Nobody going hungry is ok with me.

And when you really piss me off is when you lump Social Security, VA Benefits and Military Retirement in with Welfare! People paid into Social Security with a promise it would be there for them when they needed it. VA Benefits take care of vets and their families who paid a huge price to give you the right to run your mouth on a board like this. Military Retirement WAS EARNED THE HARD WAY and is not a freebie handout, how dare you lump that in! This is what you support when you spew the GOP Fox News Rhetoric! Cutting these things should be the absolute last step we ever take.

The thing I find hillarious is that you don't rail against the rich! They are by far the biggest takers in America! Corporate Welfare cost more than any program for the poor!

So even though I understand what you are trying to say most of the time, please educate yourself and see what is really going on before you bash and twist and smirk like some gnat brained pinhead.

it seems like other countries, they work to live.

here in the US, we rather live to work.

Except Greece.. not sure a retirement age of 50 like they have/had would work anywhere either..

Well well all knowing cold one, you go through my posts and show everyone where I am against Charity, Social Security, Disability, VA Benefits, Bankruptcy and every other lie you post about me.
I support all these things. Always have, always will.

You and others know very well what I mean by Parasites.

Your highly emotional posts accusing people of things that just aren't true is why the Republican party tossed you in the first place.

Try getting the facts first and then recall the words...

Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so.
-Ronald Reagan

ted Cruz wasn't born in the USA. He was born in Canada. Might have been to american parents, but still, he was born in Canada.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_presidential_candidates,_2016

Yes. He is of course eligible to be President.

Not according to a many teabaggers and Donald Trump.

Ah, good, you liberals are finally starting to get out of bed.

Still waiting for Old Cold One's apology.

Just because we have more important things to do than post on a message board the moment our eyes open, doesn't mean we just got out of bed. Then again, you've always been fast and loose with anything pertaining to facts.

Well now, look who finally came down off his fence and admitted to being a Lib!

Are you sure? I mean, let's assume that Obama was indeed born in Kenya as some have asserted. Why is it that there is a double standard?

One parent wasn't american and one was in both instances. In both cases, the Mothers were the American side of things.

Assuming that Obama was born in Kenya as some folks assert, then what's the difference?

By the way, I'm one of those that think there isn't a lick of solid proof Obama wasn't born in Hawaii.

What the constitution says

We first looked into this issue in 2013 but decided to look again now that Cruz has formally announced. As we found back then, the constitutional requirements for a presidential candidate created by the Founding Fathers are concise but not readily clear. provisions are obvious: The candidate must be 35 years of age and a resident of the United States for 14 years. The third qualification: He or she must be a "natural born citizen."

What does it mean to be a "natural born citizen"?

Most legal experts contend it means someone is a citizen from birth and doesn’t have to go through a naturalization process to become a citizen.

If that’s the definition, then Cruz is a natural born citizen by being born to an American mother and having her citizenship at birth. The Congressional Research Service, the agency tasked with providing authoritative research to all members of Congress, published a report after the 2008 election supporting the thinking that "natural born" citizenship means citizenship held "at birth."

Link

There is more to this article, I just cut out this snipit.

You labeled me a lib a long time ago. Like I said, you have a way of playing fast and loose with the facts. Nothing new. Same old 40.

What Tulsa said.

And you denied it. Now you admit it. Who is loose with the Facts?

so why were you blasting him about the birth certificate on the old boards? don't be a hypocrite now.

if what tulsa posted is the rule, then guess what? obama was good to go. but you and others, but specifically you, were all aboard the "wheres your birth certificate" train.

so i'll be waiting for you to call Cruz not a real american, since you did the same to obama.

Cruz didn't hide anything, he came out with the Birth Certificate when asked about it. He proved his American Citizenship like I or any of us can.

Osama, delayed. Couldn't or wouldn't produce the requested proof. He was the one who lead to all the discussion of American Citizenship. Just like his College records are locked away to this day.

The best way for the left to handle this would be to point out the hypocrisy and move on... be the bigger person. They won't make any points by being equally goofy.

That is a very interesting idea and thought. It is possible that IF obama was born in Kenya(I don't believe that by the way) that it is why it was never an issue. It would also mean my daughters who we had born in South Korea because of the MUCH cheaper cost even after plane tickets can still have hope to be president some day.

I would really like an official clarification on the subject.

That would require somebody to challenge this to the SCOTUS, which I hope never happens.

And if you love your daughters, dissuade them from ever wanting to be President....

That either father or mother of said child is a natural born U.S. citizen. Doesn't matter where ever the baby is born, anywhere in the world.

Unless of course you're half white and the father is from Kenya and the Mother is from Hawaii.

You are not eligible to run for president if you hold a dual citizenship with any other country. So this makes Cruz less of a natural American then Obama IMO, since Cruz held dual citizenship with Canada right up until last year when he gave up his Canadian Citizenship..... Yep you guessed it, just so he could run for U.S. Prez

Obama never has never held dual citizenship. True American all his life.

I've read 4 or 5 different websites of varying credibility and every single one of them says that it's not officially determined but generally accepted to mean what you stated above.. none of them have offered the dual citizenship angle though. So nobody that I can find has an official definition, but you seem to know. That's pretty cool

Per whitehouse.gov:

The Constitution lists only three qualifications for the Presidency — the President must be 35 years of age, be a natural born citizen, and must have lived in the United States for at least 14 years.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/1600/executive-branch


Per US constitution.net:


The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps. The Constitution authorizes the Congress to do create clarifying legislation in Section 5 of the 14th Amendment; the Constitution, in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4, also allows the Congress to create law regarding naturalization, which includes citizenship.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

Anyone born inside the United States *

Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe

Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.

Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national

Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21

Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)

A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

* There is an exception in the law — the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example, from this provision.

Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html

So Cruz is eligible because despite being born in Canada, both of his parents are U.S. citizens and at least one has lived in the US

The issue with Obama is that IF he was born in another country, even if his mother was a US citizen then his father would have to be at least a U.S. national.

It will be a long COLD wait. You are now on record saying that you agree with those things. BUT explain why anyone is a parasite? And I wasn't tossed from anything... I left them, they still call looking for money.

Well, and this is where his story gets murky and actually provides fuel for the fire.

First, why is a U.S. President didn't have to produce proof of citizenship until 2 years AFTER he was elected? Why wasn't he (any of them for that matter) supposed to provide it when they officially register to run for office? You have to do that to get your driver's license, but I guess not to take possession of nuclear launch codes..

But when digging in to his background (this is just off the top of my head)... one of the schools he went to in I think Indonesia was a pretty prominent school, so much so that it was unheard of for someone who wasn't a citizen to be allowed to attend.

What makes the college records so important is that it appears that Obama stayed in the same dorm as the foreign students, not a typical room assignment for a U.S. citizen. There's also speculation that he went to college using scholarships granted to foreign students. I think the key qualifier there is foreign?

So the question is: how does a guy who is supposed to have always been a U.S. citizen get extended opportunities meant for non-U.S. citizens?

Plus there is this, this woman was set to testify in court about the Obama birth certificate's authenticity that she issued....
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/health...ash-f2D11732106

I mean, if Hillary Clinton had Vince Foster killed for travel records...

What many are forgetting is that some people have dual citizenship.

Obama's father may not have been a US citizen, but his mother was. That makes him a US citizen. Period. As long as he fulfilled the 14 year qualification, which I do not believe anyone has disputed, then he is fully allowed to run for President, and serve legally.

I'm not sure I know what the 14 year requirement is?

I guess my question goes back to why this wasn't vetted in the first place when he registered his candidacy. Obviously it wasn't because it took 2 years to provide proof via the birth certificate and while I don't believe he should have to release his college transcripts, I just find it hard to believe he's spent millions of dollars to hide a C- grade. But then we are told how brilliant he is supposed to be, so maybe...

If it had been vetted from the beginning when he applied, as soon as the issue came up it would have been put to bed. Remember, the lawsuits aren't about what proof of citizenship he showed when he registered (to my knowledge none was submitted??), its what he had the State of Hawaii released as being official.

As per my post above, if Obama was born in another country and his mom was a US citizen at the time then his father would either also have to be a US citizen or a US national. Plus his mother would have had to live in the US for at least one year of her life.

The exception would be if Obama was born before 5/24/1934

So, using those same rules, Obama is was a natural US Citizen by Birth.

So why do some still insist he isn't?

As far as I know, as long as you have one parent who is a US citizen at the time of your birth, then you are also a citizen. Further, if you are born in this country, whether your parents are here legally or not, then you are a natural born citizen.

For a child of a US citizen, it does not matter where on earth they are born, as long as one of their parents is a US citizen.

Obama was eligible for the office he holds, because his mother was a citizen of the US at the time of his birth, and Cruz is eligible because his mother was a US citizens at the time of his birth. The only way either of these men could have been disqualified is if their parents had, and gave up US citizenship prior to their births. (assuming both parents were US citizens, which I do not know in Cruz's case)

both my daughters were born in Germany, and my wife is a German citizen.

but they automatically have US citizenship because i'm American. Thats what the consulate tells Americans overseas. no matter what the other parent is, as long as 1 is a US citizen, and has lived in the states for a combined 14 years-not continuous, just combined- the children are automatic.

Now Swish, you probably already know this; but for others a curious twist: When your daughters are older (I think 23 yo) they will have to decide whether to become US or German citizens because Germany doesn't allow dual citizenship:

http://www.dw.com/en/dual-citizenship-is-a-touchy-subject-in-germany/a-17215322

You spewing lies does not a record make.
-40

The trite saying that honesty is the best policy has met with the just criticism that honesty is not policy. The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
-Robert E. Lee

yea, unless they put in a special request with a good enough reason to keep their dual citizenship (there is none in our current situation)

but if they apply for any job here in the states that require a clearance, they have to give up the german citizenship.

Hey guys, Can we stop saying "as far as I know..." and guessing at what being a natural born citizen means. Here is what the constitution website states:

Per US constitution.net:


The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps. The Constitution authorizes the Congress to do create clarifying legislation in Section 5 of the 14th Amendment; the Constitution, in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4, also allows the Congress to create law regarding naturalization, which includes citizenship.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in the gaps left by the Constitution. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

Anyone born inside the United States *

Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe

Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.

Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national

Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21

Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)

A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

* There is an exception in the law — the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example, from this provision.

Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html

One can only hope that a man with the moral fortitude to belittle an American serviceman for getting captured can rise through the ranks and nab the GOP nomination.

I don't consider much off limits but belittling a veteran's military service is definitely on that list.