DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh McCown...

IMO EJ Manuel will be available early on TC... bet we make a play for him... ugh

Well call me crazy, but I'll take Weeds 10x over McCown any day...any day! The signing of McCown for the $$ they gave him should be incredibly embarrassing to Farmer. One of the worse signings of the new Browns...now that's saying something!

As long as McC's the yes-man that the front office wanted, it doesn't matter.

I honestly don't have high hopes. I mean I DO hope Josh will have a good year for us. For most of his career he has played on some bad teams. It's hard to fairly judge a QB when he is moved from one terrible team to another.

The team obviously wants to give Johnny a shot to improve. They have a first round pick and they are doing everything they can for him. It's up to him to make the most of that. I don't have any high hopes for him either.

There were no other decent QB's to be had that was worth making them the face of our franchise. There just wasn't. We are stuck with what we have and that is that.

They reality is that it might be YEARS before we have a chance at landing even a DECENT QB much less a good QB. There is just a big shortage of them. There are tons of avg QB out there just not many that you would call special.

I like that our team recognizes that and is going gung ho in finding a stable of running backs and a stud offensive line to block for them. It's a smart decision to make the most of a bad situation. I really, really like what they are doing in that regards.

When we finally do land a good QB they will have the support cast to make them special. It's just sad it probably won't happen while Joe Thomas is still our LT. Still I bet we make it into the playoffs with in the next two seasons.

I'm looking forward to a stifling defense and a quality power running game with juuuuust enough passing game to keep everyone and their mother from stacking the box. The key will be to limit Josh's ability to kill games. He, unfortunately, looks like a prototypical Browns QB. In fact he looks like a composite of like 8 of our former QB's. Joy.

Too bad you are not our GM. With Glennon, we would at least have ONE competent QB.

Memphis = Ms.Cleo

Best.
Compliment.
Ever.

Did he defecate the bed or did the entire offense defecate the bed. I don't remember the running game piling up big numbers and I do remember Gordon admitting to running the wrong route's on several occasions that we ALL know about. You want it to be simple when it suits you and complicated bordering on pure fantasy when it comes to McCown.

I can easily see Hoyer turning the bad play to good because he has played well in the past McCown on the other hand thru his extensive 12 year NFL career has had one period of time in that career when he produced more wins then loses and that was to the tune of 3-2. He has thrown nearly 2 ints per start and he has fumbled nearly 2 times per start over the course of 12 seasons. Do the math that means he will trun the ball over 3 + times per game. How will that help us NOT defecate the bed, tell me I want to know?

Like it or not 7-6 is better then 1-10.....

So you know, I will take a guy defecating the bed over a guy that can't even find the bedroom.

Hoyer played worse when they kept trying to make him throw the deep ball instead of a short to medium passing game. I think hoyer is a smart QB who can make decisions fast but he just doesn't have the ability to accurately throw beyond 20 yards on a consistent basis.

I don't understand why coaches try to force plays that don't work on QBs unsuited to run them. Instead they should understand what they have to work with and adapt the playcalling to help him out instead of hinder him. That was one thing that annoyed me about our OC last season. He got too desperate and started calling bad plays that Hoyer had no hope of executing well.

The guy that got benched twice for the guy we signed?

Is this a joke? It's gotta be a joke, right?

They drafted first, and picked Winston. You don't draft a QB first overall (especially one with so many character flags) if you think you've got the QB on your roster. Glennon's 2015 salary is $687,188. McCown was due $5.25 million. Either one of them was going to be the backup. It's as simple as that as to why they made the choice they did.

I know that it is the popular perception on these boards that Hoyer was a terrible deep passer, and I agree that we all saw a couple really awful deep attempts last year. One in particular sticks out, the punt he threw to Hawkins - and it was a completion. But I also recall a couple really nice deep throws (as I mentioned recently on another thread) to Gabriel and Cameron where the ball was right where it needed to be, was caught, and each guy proceeded to fall down with a TD in front of him.

So while I concede that deep passes are not his strong suit, I also think he was not nearly as bad throwing deep as most here think he was.

* Per NFL stats, he completed 51 passes over 20 yards, good for 11th among NFL QBs.

* He completed 10 passes over 40 yards, good for 6th among NFL QBs

* His YPA was 7.6 yds, good for 9th among 33 (qualified) starters.

For comparison purposes only, here's McCown's numbers:

* Per NFL stats, McCown completed 28 passes over 20 yards, good for 29th among NFL QBs.

* He completed 6 passes over 40 yards, good for 25th among NFL QBs

* His YPA was 6.75, good for 31st out of 33 (qualified) starters.

In fairness, McCown did throw 111 (327 vs 438) fewer passes than Hoyer, but Hoyer's numbers are still much better if attempts were equalized. Still, it seems most posters here feel McCown will bring a better deep ball than Hoyer did, and I'm just saying ... I don't think so.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?statisticCategory=PASSING

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/yardsPerPassAttempt

And if you hold the ball longer, you're more likely to be sacked.

EO..agree with what you stated, comparing QBs on different teams/Olines, situations just doesn't make sense to me...like comparing 85 Bears beating 90s 49ers...using stats...someone is just making money and discussing possiblities....I think/hope McCown with our line has successful season....GO Browns!!!!

I think we do disagree on WR's to some degree, but not by a huge margin. If you have "elite" WR's like Marshall and Jeffries, combined with a great RB like Forte', you have a complete cast of elite athletes in all the skill positions to surround yourself with. Not only does the D have to respect the pass, but the run too. So in this case, you have a D playing the run with elite WR's on the field.

I don't believe we really have the WR's that command anything more than single coverage. So I do believe it will make it easier for opposing D's to keep 8 men in the box and still cover the pass. I think you can win in the NFL when you have a good QB with average WR's or an average QB with very good WR's. But I don't believe you win your division with a below average QB with an average at best WR core.

You wish to double dip in the below average category and still come out a winner. A quality OL alone won't accomplish that. I'm big on the OL as you know. But it's still one unit of the O. It alone will not win you division titles.

So let me get this straight, you're standing on his 3-2 record in 2013?

A five game stint?

So you have no problem saying Hoyer was a flash in the pan and crapped the bed based on a 9-6 record but claim McCown is just the opposite based on a 3-2 record?

I don't think that anyone is dismissing a five game run of 3-2 over a 12 year NFL career. some re just keeping it in context.

He was 3-2 Tab for Christ sake, he didn't morph into Manning. He tossed the ball up in Chitown a lot and those big WR's went up and got the ball sheeeeeesh your ignoring what you KNOW to be a honer instead...... We can't match that here we brought in some taller receivers for him to chuck it up to but their both on the backside of their careers all stuff you know and choose to ignore......

And this is where you and I part company so to speak.

Hoyer lacked opportunity to start. You can say he didn't earn it, but few would earn PT behind Brady. But you ignore that FACT to say 7 years in the league. But 7 years in the league equals 10-7 and that is way way better then McCown. You have closed the book on Hoyer when you and I both know that there was way more then just Hoyer involved. Almost may not be good enough for you. But almost is far and away closer to the end goal then never has been after 12 years and multiple opportunities to show his wears.

And then you corner the market on homerism by saying he alone was responsible for the teams collapse which is totally and completely false.

Did the Run game do well when Hoyer was struggling?

Did Gordon and Cameron run the wrong routes?

Was the O Line protection studly?

So was it all Hoyer, nah your just so far down the blind alley your going down at this point you don't know how to get yourself out.

The ONLY reason Hoyer isn't still here is because Flip wanted his guy and that was McCown. Now lets see what he does with him. And if he manages to get something out of him he will have done something he couldn't do in the past.

Where are you getting this crap of Tampa Bay running a Spread offense w/McCown and providing Glennon w/maximumm protection?

The guy has played 12 years. We have a body of work to judge him by. There is absolutely no need to look at a small sample size.

Another misconception that I am seeing is that our line is going to always keep him clean. Hoyer's problems began w/two distinct variables:

--We lost productive players, including two Pro Bowlers, on offense.

--The OL did not give him as much time later in the year as they did earlier in the year.

When you combine those two things, guys not getting open as quickly and not getting quite as much time, you get what we got later in the year. And Hoyer did not handle the pressure very well. He started throwing off his back foot ans sailing passes. He lost accuracy.

McCown is notorious for holding the ball too long and then making bad decisions when pressured. It is a pipe dream to believe he is not going to get pressured.

You seemingly are getting angry at Pit, mac, and BTTB because they aren't agreeing w/you. However, other than some hopeful fans on a Brown's message board, who shares your opinion?

All the reporters, including former players and coaches, are bozos, right? You know way more than they do, right?

His former teams are run by clueless idiots, right? Arizona should have kept him. Oakland should have kept him. Carolina should have kept him. Chicago should have kept him. Tampa Bay should have kept him. They are all idiots and you, and several other guys on this board, know it all. Got it!

But keep acting like we are talking out our butts and you are the only one applying football logic.

eo. did you watch the 5 starts at the bears with mccown?

Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer Hoyer...

I mentioned him...na na nana na...

How many NFL teams would trade their starting QB for McCown right now?
answer ZERO.
This whole McCown situation is really no different than what I've seen since 1999.
The Browns bring in a vet QB who the front office crosses their fingers and hopes he can revive a flat line offense the year before.
has no front office ever learned from histories mistakes with this franchise?
every wish and a prayer QB the Browns brought in has failed.
when was the last time the Browns had even the 3rd best QB in the North?
Josh McCown won't even be challenged for the starting job.
He can put up a 67 rating in the preseason and will still win the job.
opposing DC's will have no problem coming up with a scheme to stop McCown.
this isn't the NFC South he will be facing this year.
Cincy,Pitt and Baltimore all have better defenses than the Falcon's Saints Panthers.
heres the deal can McCown beat the AFC North.
answer no.

And I'm looking at the sum of 12 years. It's really no different only I'm looking at a five year longer career than you are.

and no Tab, it wasn't the "2013 season". It was "five games in the 2013 season".

You're basing your opinion on five games.

Now if you think that makes you look foolish, don't blame me for that.

Hoyer had worse games after his first 5 starts with both Mack and Cameron gone so you gave up on him. When McCown had a lesser talented OL in Tampa Bay, you ignore that and try to bolster his possibilities.

That's not too far off.

J/C ... I am not saying that it is going to happen ..... just that it is a possibility.

I remember a Super Bowl, several uyears ago, where the 2 QBs were Brad Johnson and Rich Gannon.

Prior to going to Oakland, Gannon had been in the league for, IIRC, 11 years. He was the very definition of journeyman. He had thrown for a high of 2300 yards, and he had exactly one season where he threw 16 TD .... and he also threw 16 INT. To that point in his career he had 66 TD passes and 54 INT. He was hardly the ideal candidate to be a starting QB.

He then went on to throw 24, 28, 27, and 26 TD on the next 4 seasons. He threw for 3800, 3400, 3800, and 4700 yards.

He found the right "fit".

His opponent in the Super Bowl was Brad Johnson. Johnson was also a journeyman QB. He was somewhat more highly thought of, and in 5 years in Minnesota had 44 TD and 29 INT. His high in yards was just over 3000.

He then went to Washington, and was very average. 35 TD and 28 INT in 2 seasons.

He then went to Tampa. His 8th season in the NFL looked a lot like his prior seasons, with 13 TD and 11 INT, and no ral reason for hope.

Then, in 2002, he put things together and gave the Bucs 22 TD and 6 INT. (and a Super Bowl win) The following year he threw 26 TD and 22 INT. Sometimes you only get a year out of a guy, and sometiems you lose other pieces that really helped the QB.

Howver, both of these teams made the Super Bowkl with rather nondescript QB choices, because the QB fir into their team, and scheme.

I admit that I was not crazy about the choice of McCown, but maybe the coaches see something that allows him to be a better fit than Hoyer. Hopefully that will be the case.

Yes we can all point out exceptions to the rule and pray.

Well .... that is what we have at this point.

Same old tab. The master of double speak.

Here is an excerpt from an article about Tampa Bay's season.



You can read the entire article here:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/23129...ucs-2014-season

Counterpoint, Pit':

https://youtu.be/XfuBREMXxts

J/C

1- ok im sure everyone will agree that josh is not a good or even average qb
BUT
He is a Browns QB so what is wrong for browns fans to HOPE he does ok this year ?

2-
Why is Hoyer even being talked about in a McCown thread ?
He isnt even on the team anymore whether people think he should be or not.

3-
Why does every thread have to turn into a pissin match over the same ol shitz whether it has any relevance to the thread or not?

4-
This used to be a great board to read good articles and debates about the BROWNS
Now its just the same ol same ol in every thread with all of them having the same BS arguments no matter the original subject.
No wonder most of the good posters rarely join in anymore since every thread gets hijacked into a pissin contest.

5-
Dont bother telling me if i dont like it that i dont have to read it because i wont take the bait and argue about it..

Its just a shame that the best BROWNS board has sank this low

Ok im done with my rant and sorry it wasnt really on the thread topic
As far as the topic
I hope he does well since it sounds as if he will be our starter unless somehow Manziel somehow beats him out in training camp and preseason