DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel.....continued

+1, how much want to does Johnny have..watched JF2 AND JF with Gruden before draft...he's 22, he said all right things to Gruden, then fame, alcohol got him...good news, 22 and humbled. Ego and production got him drafted, hope his small town roots, ego and drive get him on field again..and he's productive for our Browns!!!
So far he's done everything he needed to do, now bullets start flying....GO Browns!!!

EO, just copy, paste, will find on Google...nice piece about guys who beat drugs...sort of...Go Browns!!!

EO, ESPN sent report to talk to Todd Marinovich and John Lucas drug addicts...their process of recovery...rehash of Johnny's troubles last year and mentioned positive steps he's taken....another, what will happen to promising, flawed, Heisman winner.....GO Browns!!!!

Nice tweet about JM from Pete Prisco, who always seems to be pretty hard on the Browns

RT @PriscoCBS Sure sounds like Johnny Manziel is committed to football. If he is, he might surprise some people. You know what you get in McCown.

Is this what you're looking for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p-kR_FG0R8

j/c:

The Realities of the Browns Quarterback Situation

Since the pairing of General Manager Ray Farmer and Head Coach Mike Pettine, the Browns have been very honest at the quarterback situation and this year is no different, with a common sense approach to the position as they prepare to head to training camp.

Free agent signee Josh McCown is the team’s starting quarterback and after a complete waste of a year which included a stint in rehab, Johnny Manziel is simply tasked with honing his craft while he gets a better handle on his life. While fans and media are discussing different scenarios and what this year means for Manziel, the reality is the Browns will be forced to again address the position after this season, whether it be in the 2016 NFL Draft or an acquisition of some kind (free agency, trade), regardless of how he performs.

While so many are painting the season as a black and white issue when it comes to Manziel, the reality is a far more gray area. There are those that argue the Browns have to play Manziel to see what they have. The Browns know what they have and this argument boils down to observers needing to see it play out on the field to believe it, one way or the other. This happened last year with Manziel as well, which was a black eye not only for Manziel and the organization, but also showed just how uninformed the older, traditional media is in Northeast Ohio.

The other problem with this argument is the Browns are simply too talented a roster to just throw a quarterback in to the starting job. As difficult as it is to believe, it’s true. The Browns are too good to just throw a season away. For a team with players like Hall of Fame bound Joe Thomas, who is closer to the end of his career than the beginning or the Alex Mack, who will opt out of his current contract at the end of the year, they want, rather need the Browns to put their best foot forward across the board. Mack is arguably the best center in the league and feeling as though they are out there to win every game could be crucial if he decides he wants to sign a new contract after the season or look around the league to not only cash in, but compete for a Super Bowl.

There is also nothing about this idea that fits Mike Pettine since he has come to Cleveland. The team’s philosophies of keeping the best 53, playing the best guy, and always competing were a culture change that appeared to take hold last season when the team not only outperformed expectations last season but fought to the very end of the season, getting contributions from a number of unlikely sources including several undrafted free agents (K’Waun Williams, Taylor Gabriel and Isaiah Crowell for example) or late adds in the season (Scott Solomon).

The meaningful gains from last year’s effort, even with a bottom of the league quarterback such as Brian Hoyer, would be completely thrown out the window if the Browns arbitrarily played an underserving player simply due to their drafting. The Browns and Pettine did not do this last year, despite pressure from the office, with Justin Gilbert or Manziel, so going back on that now would throw away a year’s worth of work in terms of the mental mindset being built here.

The other part of this, obviously, is Manziel. When he was drafted into the league, he was a redshirt sophomore and not surprisingly a project. The Browns coaching staff knew it, did not want to play him at all last year, and only when Hoyer completely played himself out of a job, did they finally relent, despite the objections of the locker room and most notably Joe Thomas, who described playing Manziel as giving up on the year.

Because of Manziel mania and the hoopla that came with it, fans and media were willing to believe that simply rubbing their fingers together could produce an NFL quarterback that could come in and succeed. Even some normally rational thinkers allowed themselves to believe it, despite an unimpressive training camp and less than stellar results in preseason against players that were just trying to land a roster spot or make the practice squad. His performances in the regular season were a disgrace that ended up with him with an injured hamstring and nothing but questions going forward with his career.

Manziel is said to be conducting himself the right way and critics from within the locker room have become supporters, hoping that this leads to meaningful change and ultimately helps himself become a successful quarterback. That does not mean it has to happen this year and it is far more likely that it does not.

As mediocre and uninspiring as Josh McCown may be to some, Manziel was the worst rookie quarterback in the entire NFL last year, which included his teammate and undrafted free agent, Connor Shaw. It is a huge leap for Manziel to go from worse than Shaw to being ready to start games, but the reality is that Manziel does not need to start or beat out McCown to have a successful season. He just needs to improve and make meaningful strides this year.

The Browns have to add another quarterback next year and hopefully the 2016 draft is far more impressive than 2015 was (one of the worst in history). Even if Manziel were to make a miraculous improvement, take the starting job, and play well this season, the Browns still need another quarterback. The Browns cannot put them in a position where they are entering next year’s training camp with nothing but question marks and a bottom feeding quarterback room.

McCown has embraced the mentor role, so if the Browns and McCown opt to keep that relationship going, the team could enter training camp with McCown, Manziel and whichever quarterback they draft with Shaw competing to try to win a job. If McCown and the Browns part ways, Shaw may be able to secure the third string job and keep trying to improve. Manziel’s improvement or stagnation simply impacts how desperate the Browns are to get their quarterback next year, whether they need to mortgage the future for a signal caller or if they can be more patient and select one they really like to bolster the depth chart.

In the best case scenario, Manziel makes meaningful improvements and the Browns have a far more promising quarterback trio next year with two potential quarterbacks that could lead this team to the playoffs and further. In the worst case scenario, Manziel is unable to improve or even relapses, the team has to cut bait and they have an even bigger hole to address; a familiar one that the team has been trying to address since Tim Couch’s arm fell off.

The pressure for Manziel to play this year or it is a failure is nonsense. His improvement both on the field and in his personal life is what matters and the Browns need to go with the best option at the position this year, which is likely McCown, with an eye to adding a quarterback next year is the only logical approach. The Browns are too good, believe it or not, and simply are not in a position where they can wait around for anyone. They have to be proactive to get the best 53 and attack the position that has been dogging the team for two decades.

http://www.footballsavages.com/the-realities-of-the-browns-quarterback-situation/

I think no matter how Johnny plays, if a QB is available that they feel is better than he has shown by the end of the season they will take him.

If you truly subscribe to the "better the position" philosophy, you should always be looking for an upgrade at every position, unless you are absolutely sure you have the guy in that spot already.

josh mccown shouldnt be that crazy hard to beat out. I`m guessing that its set up for a win for manzel. if he cant beat out hoyer and mccown then its a bad pick thats hurt us for 2 years

That article managed to portray arrogance and ignorance at the same time.

Is that guy a reporter? He sounded like some blogging blowhard.

lots of blowhards out there. Just seen some `nfl news` ask if johnny is ahead of mccown in the qb race...some lady said its head and shoulders mccown actually.

It seemed like a balanced and reasonable article to me.

What parts did you find arrogant and ignorant?

I know you don't like me (and that's ok), but that is a serious question. Why did you interpret that as arrogant and ignorant?

He point blankly stated that Manziel is not starting because the coaches see him every day and practice and he's not good. His statement that the media can't accept that and need to see it with their own eyes was insightful.

He talked about the talent on the team, of which there is plenty outside of QB. He mentioned that you have to be careful about what message you send the team by playing a QB that isn't any good when he's not ready.

He talked about the strategy moving forward depending on how Manziel progresses.

I don't know. Seemed like a solid, well thought out article to me.

I don't care that you have a difference of opinion. I'm curious as to why you have a difference of opinion.

Pete Smith is a member of the Football Writers Of America and a contributor to FootballSavages.com. Don't know much further and won't spend the time. Personally, I thought the article was well written...

interesting perspective.
I saw not a single sentence that portrayed either one of those characteristics.

I can see you believing that.....

This is what I'm saying. I keep listening to 92.3 and some others and they say the Browns should start JF to see what they have in him. This is the same stupid crap that Chud did with Weeden.

I'm sorry, and maybe someone with coaching experience can help - but if the kid isn't getting it done in the classroom, on the practice field and cannot beat out one (probably soon two, since I doubt JF beats out McCown) older QBs that haven't really done a whole lot in the NFL... what more evidence do you need?

Why would forcing him onto the field be any beneficial to him the player or the team as a whole? I just don't understand this logic.

I agree Dawg. We should not start JM until the coaches feel he is ready. It will not help him or the team if we start him too soon. I'm sure with the teams we are playing this year he may have at least a few chances to play in a relief role and we can see what he may be able to do.

I think this was a well written article. Made alot of good points. I don't think Pet has any intention of seeing what Johnny can do. What I've been getting from his presser's is...
JM need's to come in and work hard, and study hard and get his life together. Only chance Johnny has is if he blows everyone away in training camp. If he can do that then great for everyone. Otherwise I think the FO want him to sit and learn for another year.

I can understand reading it that way. The author's statements about certain groups of people (namely local media) were pretty blunt. I don't know I would call the writer arrogant, but that's probably because I agree with almost everything he says.

I like you, Rish. You are a solid poster. In fact, I think you are one of the better posters on here. I just thought the open-minded comment was whacked. You thought I was whacked. Not a big deal in my world. We got after each other and then it's time to move on.

I am not going to go through the entire article because it sucks having to go back a page and then come back and reply one line at a time, but here are a few things:


Completely arrogant.


I think that comment is ignorant because it is assuming that Browns are going somewhere w/Josh McCown, who despite the support some posters are throwing his way, has stunk for almost every single one of his 12 years in the league. I can't believe we even have to debate that.


That statement is so freaking contradictory that I can't believe it. That much of a contradiction makes me think he is reaching........and that reeks of ignorance.



Arrogance. Who the hell is this guy to call others nonsensical in a national report?



This is a lie that tells me is both arrogant and ignorant.




What? Tell that to Brian Hoyer. Tell that to Shanny. Honest, really? Ignorant comment.



So, if Johnny sees the field in preseason, lights it up, and has a very good season or if the 36 year old McCown gets hurt again this year and JM replaces him and lights it up.........we absolutely have to find another QB? That is ignorant. Yes, the odds are we are going to find a qb next year, but who the hell didn't know that? So again, he is being arrogant by acting like he knows something we don't.

I suppose someone will break down each thing I quoted and argue them singularly, but while reading one comment after another when I first read the article, I was appalled by how amateurish it was. Just my opinion.

Oh, and thanks Daman for not letting me down. You never miss an opportunity to insult me. What a swell guy you are.

j/c:



https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN

It isnt that he isnt making great throws because he has but he has been inconsistent. Manziel gets back to throwing the ball more naturally and we will see his accuracy improve.

I hated his mechanics last year and although they got a bit more power out of his throws, it was unnatural and robotic. I dont want to rip the former coaches for this as his motion was likely an unfinished product of what they wanted him to do but if we can get him throwing like he was at his proday we will have a really good passer.

I'll be honest with you. After reading your response, I went back and reread the article. I can see how those sentences you highlighted could be interpreted as arrogant and/or ignorant ...although I would say more so on the arrogant side than ignorant.

I think the general tone of the article when taken in totality is a brutally honest one. He does use words and phrases that might cause people to think he's arrogant, but he hides them well overall behind what I believe is just brutal honesty. Was Hoyer a bottom of the barrel QB? Yes, he was. Does applying that adjective of him in an article make the author arrogant? Yeah, I can see that. There are other examples of this as well throughout.

I can see your point, but just didn't get that general overall feel and take away from the article the first time I read it. I didn't really get it the second time I read it either, but I was looking for it and can see how others might interpret it that way.

You deserved it.

Do you have a scripture to back that up?

Which is what I suspect. He's getting better at the things he can control. Not getting better at the things he can't.

I liked the article (what can I say, I'm probably arrogant and ignorant). Pretty straight forward and reasonable. I suspect we're going into the season looking to absolutely maximize our running game and defense and ask Josh to manage and dink-dunk... high percentage stuff for a low percentage guy. I think most reasonable people agree there were VERY few options this off season at QB and yet we still managed to make a poor choice. Whatever, not much variance between the top and bottom options afforded us this year frankly.

The QB question is all in the future with someone who is currently not in the room. Period. Johnny improving to the point of being a good starting QB AND keeping his life in one piece is a statistical outlier to say the very least. I agree that the best we can probably expect for this year is an adequate and stabilizing manager who's minimal allowed mistakes let the rest of the team find a footing. All while we set our sites on another prospect or FA. May the odds be forever in the scouts favor.

Johnny Manziel struggles at Browns camp; Terrelle Pryor thrives at WR

BEREA, Ohio -- It was not a grand opening for Johnny Manziel at Cleveland Browns training camp Thursday.

The results of the second-year quarterback's first four drop backs went like this: sack, sack, pass nearly intercepted, pass batted down at the line.

The Browns' practice was like an extension of their minicamp, without pads and with limited contact (the sacks were plays stopped because the defender was near the quarterback). But Manziel and the other QBs had the ability to drop back, read and throw.

Josh McCown did that, and generally had a day that seemed to go well. Manziel eventually did it a couple times, but his overall performance to the eye did not jump out.

McCown worked exclusively with the first team, Manziel with the backups.

"It's hard to say," coach Mike Pettine said when asked to evaluate the pair.

Pettine said both had good throws, and he liked their command in the huddle and knowledge of the offense. Manziel's body language did not ooze confidence, though. He walked a lot with his head down, as if he was not pleased with the way things were going.

The Browns have been patient with Manziel and insisted in the offseason that he not be judged on the results of plays because they were not called for specific situations.

Pettine said earlier in the week that Manziel could win the starting job for the season opener. Based on the first day, he has a long way to go -- even if it was a practice without pads.

Quarterback-turned-receiver Terrelle Pryor, meanwhile, oozed the proper amount of confidence and realism.

"I believe I can do it," he said of making the position switch in camp. "It's just going to take a lot of hard work and focus."

Receiver Brian Hartline said Pryor faces a "pretty tall task."

"I've been playing since I was 16, just like the majority of guys in the NFL," Hartline said. "Now he has to make up years of learning and work in a couple weeks."

From the sideline, Pryor looks the part. He's tall, has good hands and runs extremely well after the catch. He showed that when he caught some slants and ran past people, working backups vs. backups.

Pryor said the details will be his biggest challenge. Cornerback Joe Haden described those details as getting in and out of breaks and going after the ball.

"He looks great in a uniform, I can tell you that," Pettine said.

McCown walked over to Pryor after his first full practice and told the receiver he looked "real good" and to "keep stacking the days."

As for his Ohio State days, Pryor said this: "Loud fans, beautiful stadium, great coach, great tradition." And the end, when he was suspended and left early? "Painful, but I've seen worse."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/133477...s-training-camp

one would hope a second year vet would do better.

I know it's the first day of real camp, but ouch. Maybe they should take off his red jersey and let him get hit so he has added *want* to do the right things.

About what I expected McCown is our best option...

Sad, Sad, Sad

This is pretty funny... Manziel has 4 snaps listed behind the line of Seymour, Painter, Erving, Olsen, and Bowie (I guess, they are the back-ups on the depth chart).. and gets pressured a couple of time and people have reached a conclusion.

Manziel’s pass was deflected at the line of scrimmage and the ball thudded to the ground. There were a couple times in that drill and in another period when DeFilippo yelled to Manziel to get out of the huddle and get the play off........

guess since he was with the second string he didnt have anyone to ask for help on the play call?

jff must have looked very poor; thats unfortunate

Seems everyone's jumped on the doom and gloom bandwagen after four snaps...WOW..JMHO, we know JF isn't tall, what are DL guys going to do with NO HITTING, block throwing lanes and jump up to knock down passes...wonder if they'd have the hands up with helmet to the face or cut block...four snaps and JF season is over....come on....GO Browns!!!!

Absolutely, 1st day of camp and people already are writing him off this year