DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Another Day, Another Mass Shooting

There was a 10 day waiting period on that baby, BB.

. You don't get that puppy at your friendly used car lot...

So true. I hear things all the time from people talking about the recent rise in gun violence or violent crime, and I am quick to correct them. I think a lot of the hysteria comes from the fact that incidents happening today are completely random and happen in places where people feel "safe" (churches, theaters, schools, etc.). Internet sensationalism plays a role as well. But we continue to become less and less violent as a society, and the means to detect and capture those who are has also progressed in leaps and bounds. A person was statistically more likely to get murdered in 1960 than they are in 2015.

That's because you never hear stories of people stopping crime with a gun. It's not newsworthy if there aren't innocent gunned down victims.

Link

Researchers at the Cato Institute have reviewed eight years worth of news reports about shooting in self-defense and conclude, "the vast majority of gun owners are ethical and competent, and tens of thousands of crimes are prevented each year by ordinary citizens with guns."

?? We are much worse off today then back then....No Question about it. This has nothing to do about race. This has to do with moral decay. Just look around you. Kids no longer have a golden rule to follow, kids no longer have a set of guidelines to follow. We've told them it's ok to just do what you want to, it's ok really! Cats and Dogs living together. It's NOT ok. Were' killing our children and now it seems were selling their parts, BUT hey it's ok. You can sleep with who you want to, BUT it's ok. Until people wake up and realize their destroying, not just their own lives but their childrens lives also, things will get worse.

I raised my kids without religion, and most of them are good kids. I've always tried to teach them that they should treat others how they'd like to be treated. I followed that up by telling them that people will treat them as they treat others most of the time anyway, so you may as well at least be polite. They know right from wrong, even if I had to explain, 'just because it's wrong'. I think I did a fairly good job.

When you say something like "We are much worse off morally than we were in 1962", you're conveniently brushing off the fact that in 1962, black people were segregated. And, again, define "evil", and a metric to quantify it. You said it was "growing at a high rate", but there's no statistical measurement to back your claim. The murder rate has been dropping for decades. Same for violent crime. Same for property crime. In just about any category where someone can hurt or steal from another human being, the numbers have been steadily going down for some time.

Oh, no doubt you did a good job. But, the point is your values have to come from somewhere. A caveman did not just wake up one day and say...Murder is bad....Rape is bad. Where did Good and Evil come from? God put in us all the difference between Good and Evil. It's up to us to obey or not. Alot of us run from the truth so we don't have to deal with it. But, beware...

Isaiah 5:20King James Version (KJV)

20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Look, I get it...Not all People believe in God. But All People want Peace and Joy. But refuse to see from where it came from. I, for one, did not come from monkey's...I was created. We were all Created, and our eye's were opened, and we do know the difference between Good and Evil. Some choose Evil but call it good, thats what upsets me. JMHO

Quit trying to make this a racial thing. Has nothing to do with it. Were to treat each other as our selves and Love one another. Were killing our children in record numbers and were now promoting same sex. It doesn't always have to be about murder. Anytime you start thumbing your nose at God, you have to be prepared to run.

yes, it's a cop out.

and ask who? i don't believe in religion.

How am I making it a "racial thing"? You are claiming that we were a more moral society than in 1962. That leaves any and all aspects of the society in that period up for examination. And one of those aspects happened to be that we segregated a portion of the population because of their skin color. How, then, can you argue that we are less moral than a time in which we treated a large segment of the population as second-class citizens who were to be separated from the rest of us? And as for homosexuals, we treat them far more morally than ever. There was a time when they were institutionalized, treated as having a mental illness, and suffered similar second-class citizens status. They are just now beginning to earn rights long held by the rest of the population. There's no question whatsoever that our society has acted with more morality towards them then ever before. And murder and violent crime are perfectly acceptable aspects of society to look at when considering whether or not "evil" is "growing at a high rate". We kill people less, we hurt people less, we steal from people less, we rape people less. How can you argue that we're becoming more and more evil when the most heinous acts we can commit against another human being are steadily decreasing by the year?

Hmmmm Not the first time I've heard this.

Yes, remember it was a couple of days ago, when you accused me of being a racist, and when asked to cite an example of my racism, you couldn't provide one?

We were a more moral people in that we still taught the children to have love and respect for each other. Not all people think alike, it took time for some of these wrongs to be made right, but for the most part they were. The whole point of this is....

We No Longer Have A Foundation with which to Teach From.

And If It Feels Good, Do It....Just aint cutting it.

no, you just use to be under this illusion that it was better.

the same crap happening now happened back then. it's just with technology we can access everything, see everything.

stuff that would normally never make it out of the local news channel is now all over FB.

don't be blinded. morality has been questioned since forever.

Two dead, three hurt in shooting at Kansas City family gathering

http://news.yahoo.com/two-dead-three-hurt-shooting-kansas-city-family-181742989.html

KANSAS CITY, Mo (Reuters) - Two people were killed and three others wounded by gunfire at a family gathering in Kansas City overnight, police said Sunday.

The five people were shot shortly after midnight, with one person dead when police arrived and four others taken to hospitals where a second person died, Kansas City Missouri police Sgt. Kari Thompson said.

Thompson said police are not releasing information on any suspects at this time. The shooting occurred as a group of family and friends socialized, according to Thompson.

First, we are... Second, because people understand how a drug deal gone bad can lead to a shooting... people understand how catching your wife in bed with another man can lead to a shooting... people understand how armed robbery of a convenience store can lead to a shooting...

Rational people don't understand how a person can load a gun, walk into a crowded theater, church, restaurant, school... and just start shooting people they don't know.

We absolutely did not have more love and respect for each other in 1962. The population was still largely segregated in 1962. I wouldn't have been able to eat lunch with my friends in a diner in 1962. Minorities were treated horribly. Women were treated horribly. The murder rate was higher. Rates of domestic violence was staggeringly higher. The actions of our time absolutely did not reflect or set forth an example of love and respect. There is far more love and respect taught 2015. Society is far more loving and respectful in 2015. Just ask a black person or a Jewish person or a woman or a homosexual or someone with a mental illness, etc. Our society still has many problems, certainly, but we've steadily been moving forward, not backward, for some time now.

BS
You were there?

Or are you remembering from your classes in Propaganda school?

so you're saying the civil rights era with all the bad stuff didn't happen?

Jack is bringing up excellent points. he isn't making it a race thing, just making correlations.

As usual with you...

No, that's not what I said.

It's easy to appear to be a more moral person when you are constantly surrounded by people who generally think like you.

Everything I've said is factually accurate. The murder rate was slightly higher in 1962. Domestic violence occurred at a much higher rate. The black population was still dealing with segregation. The Jewish population faced far more anti-Semitism. Homosexuality was considered a mental illness, and they were frequently institutionalized. People with actual mental illnesses had far less avenues for opportunity than they do today. Same for women. All minorities, really. That pretty much covers everything I said. What, specifically, did you consider to be "BS" or "propaganda"?

When you say stupid stuff like this...

"We absolutely did not have more love and respect for each other in 1962. The population was still largely segregated in 1962. I wouldn't have been able to eat lunch with my friends in a diner in 1962. Minorities were treated horribly. Women were treated horribly."
---------------------------------------------------------

-There was respect for your elders, for your parents, for the Government as we were at war with the Soviets.

-Segregation was there. Whites pretty much lived in their world while Blacks lived in theirs. There were overlaps in business and such and there was respect. We young ones would be slapped for using the N word like some of the less educated older folks had a habit of doing.

When integration started and they told Jimmy Brown (head bowed respect given) that the Browns would now all ride on the buses together without consideration of Race, Jimmy said "But we don't want White people on our bus"! (I remember my Dad laughing at this and saying "Way to go Jimmy"!) There was plenty of self pride to go around. I remember eating in diners and there were Blacks eating there too. I remember because as a kid I didn't see many Black folks and they were interesting and different.

As far as women were concerned, nobody treated my Mom horribly! Nobody treated the other women in my life horribly!

I remember Gay men being all over the place during my young life, people would snicker that "He's Q" but they had their own lives in private, not in public at the time.

It was also a time of change in America. You had bad and violent things happening in a city here, a town there, a State down there. I'm not saying it was all roses as America changed but your post was just completely out of touch with reality.

So I guess what I am calling BS on is your referring to life back then as some kind of Aushwitz on earth.

lol, thats not what most of the elders i talked to said went down at ALL.

i couldn't help but read that in a children's audio book.

"twas a peaceful time, back when whites stayed to themselves, and the darkies as well"

First of all, there was an Auschwitz on Earth. It was called Auschwitz. And at no point did I compare 1962 in America to a Nazi concentration camp. I merely listed societal behavior in example and statistic. Nothing I said was untrue.

Arch:

Less than 24 hours after I outlined my POV, this news item came up.

It's exactly- to a tee- what I was describing in my post. I seriously doubt it would ever involve members of my family or yours... but I could easily envision it in many neighborhoods. Even nice neighborhoods. This accused didn't start a car, drive around to the back yard and mow down people who were gathered for a party. He pulled a firearm, and shot 5 people. Once that gun was out in the open, it took just three muscles in his index finger to change the lives of at least 2 dozen people.

That's a crapload of power to be entrusted with. Even for people who are extensively and regularly trained to carry. Like I said before... I can't trust everyone to be responsible.

On top of that, consider the increased number of bullets flying through the air if a 'good guy with a gun' decides to protect the partiers. He'd BETTER hit the person he aims at- with EVERY SINGLE SHOT- or someone 3 doors down could be felled as collateral damage. Potentially MORE lives impacted.

All in a span of less than a minute.


Like I said.... I ain't against them; I just wish there were lots fewer of them.

http://www.examiner.com/article/oklahoma-teens-arrested-held-for-stabbing-deaths-of-family-members

I understand about shooting and how you'd better be accurate.

Just tonight I had some friends over. They wanted to shoot a tannerite target. I showed them where to put it. One guy said " I don't need a table to shoot off of" I said "yes, you do. If you shoot the rifle from the ground at the target, you're shooting up. Can't do that. I pulled a table out. I then moved the table so that any "non hit" round would go through 1 mile of field and woods.

I get it Clem, I really do. You want less guns on the streets. What I want, is less bad guys with guns on the street.

I also understand that at any given time, a person that has been responsible in life, with guns, raising kids, whatever - that person can snap.

Do you have an answer to how to prevent that? If not, I'll just keep my gun. Cops show up to take reports.

As to my link - any thoughts on knife control?

No. I don't.


No thoughts on knife control either.


I sometimes just wish things were different... and that people were better. Happens a few times per year, every year. For me, it's not really even a debate any more, because 48 weeks out of the year, I'm resigned to it being our reality. Those other 30 days? I can't keep it out any more, and it makes me want to throw up.

It's just been one of those weeks.

There is always good in the world to focus on. When this idiot chose to shoot up a movie theater in Louisiana, a local teacher threw themselm in front of one of their colleagues, taking a bullet for them. The colleague then pulled the fire alarm, and dragged their savior to safety. There is always good in the world.

I don't think anybody is doubting that there is good in the world and people willing to do genuinely heroic things... but nobody should have to make that choice because they went to the movies or to church..

No, they shouldn't. But you can focus on the dark or the light. I try as best I can to focus on the light. Though I can't blame anyone who focuses on the dark.

For the record (as I think the bulk of my posts will attest), I believe that focusing on the light is how I get through the 48 weeks.

I'll call that one month "The Devil's Cut' ...the price I pay for doing Good Time here on Earth.

Yeah... my mood is pretty dark today. But it will get better. It always does.

I rarely complain when I have to pay full price for gas or groceries. I don't flip out when I get a parking ticket. I'm even pretty cool when I have to deal with airports. It's part of the cost of being in the game. So I won't bitch too hard about paying a 1-month spiritual and psychological toll in exchange for 11 months of a life that blesses me over and again.

_____________________________


Which reminds me: It's been >2 years since I took a self-imposed 'daily news moratorium.' 1-2 weeks of nothing but music, literature, hikes, and daily errands WITHOUT the news. Years ago, I'd load my pack with 2 weeks' provisions and disappear. At least once per year. Get so far 'out there,' I might see only 3 people in 14 days. Manna for the soul.

Grew up in the city, played on asphalt and small back yards, spent thousands of hours in a cubicle with my noisemaker, make my living in rooms with over 1,000 people... and always felt safer with the weather, bears and wolves than I ever did my fellow man. (...never camped in 'Grizzly Country,' tho-)

I haven't 'disappeared' like that since the week following 9/11.

Something tells me I'm long overdue. And out-of-shape.

Clem, I always used to go hiking on the AT on daylight savings weekends. I'd pack up with everything I needed to survive a few days on the trail, ditch my phone, watch, set my clocks before I left, and go live in the dirt for a few days. I never suffered from DST changes, and I got away from all things that beep for a weekend. Very relaxing.