DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mike Pettine..continued !

I disagree. I think much of what this writer has said has been brought up and reported several times in several different outlets over the past two years.

j/c

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Mike Pettine will be on live at 1:30 EST on CBD for those interested.

‘Words into action’ the backbone for 2015 Cleveland Browns]

Link

Mike Pettine strolled up to the podium on the eve of his second training with Browns, and he said something that may have appeared minor, but in reality, it will become the backbone for Cleveland football in 2015.

“Words into action,” the 48-year-old head coach said to a throng of reporters on a steamy day in Berea.

Coming from the guy who successfully implemented the mentality Play Like a Brown in year one, “words into action” shouldn’t be dismissed as a catchphrase. Pettine means business.

The Browns will have the best secondary in the league.

Cleveland’s new explosive identity on offense will catch teams off guard.

The Browns can end a 13-season playoff drought and reach the postseason.

Whether those words are external, or even internally laid out by the coaching staff as goals, turn them into action on the football field. And getting veteran leaders to emphasize the message in harmony, just like they did with Play Like a Brown, is a strength Pettine has channeled early in his head coaching career.

“We were leading Baltimore going into both fourth quarters, up here and there,” Pro Bowl safety Donte Whitner said. “We don’t think that there is that big of a difference between first and fourth place in the division. Teams are built similarly. Everybody has a pretty good defense, so it is going to be the team that really wants the division that goes out there and takes it.

“We have had our wins and taken our lumps, but it was our first time together. We went out there and accomplished some of those things. Just building on the things that we did last year, some of the late leads we let slip, we are really confident in what we can do.”

Said Pettine: “I think so much of the NFL is every team is capable but who can do it consistently and who can do it the longest. And I think that is where we have to take that next step this year.”

The dialogue at the Browns’ first team meeting Wednesday night will revolve around exactly this. The football season is going to get noisy and it’s going to get intense. It’s the franchises that can stick to their plan, and plug in backup players on the fly that find themselves playing football in late January.

Sure, the question marks are there. Josh McCown will have to prove it at quarterback. The run defense will take time to gel together. The Browns will play one of the more challenging road schedules in the league.

But all of that is talk. None of that is action on the field. Pettine knows Cleveland can improve – and prove it to those outsiders who aren’t yet convinced.


“There’s no reason to think that we can’t be in that conversation at the end of the year,” Pettine said.

Year 1 for Pettine was about establishment – of a new no-nonsense culture, of a shift in X’s and O’s philosophy that relies on dominant offensive line and secondary play, of reminding his players how fun the game of football really is.

Year 2 for Pettine will be about climbing the ladder – with more veteran reinforcements who have won in the NFL, a stronger defense that can be as nasty as his Jets teams and more prowess as a head coach and vision he can turn into reality.

Does Kevin Jones also write Romance novels?

I truly don't think I have ever seen a writer as bad as this guy. Ever.

Read it again. There were very few quotes. There was a ton of feel-good crap statements.

Maybe people are confused over what a Cleveland Browns beat reporter is supposed to write at the beginning of training camp?

I listed to the live interview with Pettine and it just reinforced why I like the guy, the other sound bite I heard yesterday was Whitner saying until the team proves otherwise, they don't deserve any media respect. I took both Pettine and Whitner at their word and felt they truly mean/meant what they said. Both perspectives are good for the long term benefit of the team.

Mike Pettine: We’re motivated by outside disrespect

Posted by Josh Alper on July 30, 2015, 10:08 AM EDT

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The Browns may lack talent at certain positions on their roster, but they shouldn’t be short on motivation.

That’s the message sent by coach Mike Pettine, who was asked Wednesday about predictions regarding the team’s chances of contending for anything more than a high draft pick next year. Pettine joked that he’s seen projections ranking the Browns fifth in the four-team AFC North, but got more serious about how the Browns can use that to their advantage.

“Nobody wants to be disrespected,” Pettine said, via the Associated Press. “It’s a prideful group, and I just see it as a motivating thing. We had two wins over division opponents last year by 21 points, and we just feel our best path to get to where we want to be is in the division. We played well enough — at times — to be in that conversation and at other times we didn’t. I think so much of the NFL is every team is capable, but who can do it consistently and who can do it the longest. I think that’s where we have to take that next step this year.”

Pettine steered the Browns to a 7-4 record last season, but everything unraveled during a five-game losing streak that left the Browns in their familiar position on the outside looking in at the teams that advanced to the playoffs. That makes it 13 years without a playoff berth, which makes it feel less like disrespect and more like a desire for others to see something that makes them think that it will be anything other than the same old Browns this season.

However you frame it, though, there should be plenty of motivation in Cleveland for a better outcome this year.

As opposed to all of those off-seasons where they heaped respect on us and predicted that we would win a bunch of games...

I haven't wrote these guys off. In fact, I have said I like Pettine. I have also said I don't want either guy fired. I have also posted [in a reply to you] how I view their moves. I have seen good moves and bad moves. I call it "balance."

The issue is that people get offended when I address the negative moves. That is their right.

I just want to make sure that I address this: I do NOT hate this regime. I am willing to give them a chance. They have done things I have liked and they have made moves that I don't like. I do NOT want to be painted into this corner that makes it appear that I hate this regime.

You have been on a roll w/a lot of funny lines. I think most people miss them, but I enjoy your humor. The quip about Brady's balls was extremely funny.

Vers, I'll say this. You and BTTB, and a few others, are big advocates showing the negative side. With that said, I don't think that calls any "bad fans." Technically, you really only negative on 10%, but of that 10%, you go to war defending! Thinking that way gives me heartburn!

I know a lot of people who see things from the "not so positive side." Like the "positive," you are about 50% of the time correct! You wonder where yen/yang started!!!! Then there is...SuperBrown!!!!

You both need to post one week as if your are part of the "plant flowers around the runway people!" That will cure a lot of the drama!

Yep, we had 1 of those... 7 years ago... and with those great expectations and all of that respect, we underachieved in a big way...

Here's what Browns coach Mike Pettine is saying after second practice of training camp

By NATE ULRICH Published: July 31, 2015

Browns coach Mike Pettine met with reporters Friday after the second full-squad practice of training camp. Below is a transcript provided by the team.


On QB Josh McCown’s accuracy: “That’s the one thing that has jumped out is his accuracy, not just on the underneath stuff but those intermediate to deeper throws. I talk about having to watch the film and being able to evaluate, but I don’t have to watch the film to know he threw some pretty good balls in practice today. It’s good to see. Hopefully, that will carry over when we’re in pads.”


On if McCown is more athletic than most players his age: “I think he wanted to show that off a bit, too (laughter). When he took off running, we were joking with him that he’s an older car but low mileage, kept in the garage, driven to church not a lot of mileage on it (laughter). He’s surprised me. He has kept himself in great shape over his career. It’s a credit to him. He’s a good athlete and he showed it today. “


On preparing for the first practice with pads tomorrow: “Structure wise, it will be similar. There will be an extra team period, a run emphasis, where it’s just inside, no wide receivers; it will be all runs. It like an offensive drill is pass kill and no linemen or the defensive drills. It’s all runs. It’s more to establish the mentality. We’re going to have to be able to run the ball, and we’re going to have to be able to stop the run. We feel doing that drill every day in pads is going to be a big part of laying that groundwork and a big part of that success. That’ll be an addition. We’ll be closer to the max time. The individual period could potentially be a little longer. We’re not going to overdo it just because it’s the first day in pads, overdo the contact. There will be similar things, but we won’t get into any tackling or some drills where there might be more thumping than usual.”


On learning more about players during full-pads practices: “Absolutely, you do. It’s as close to a real game situation as you’re going to get. They’re wearing everything that they’re going to wear come game time. It is difficult on an offense – you’re talking about blocking surface. When you put pads on, you see it’s not as easy to get to the quarterback when there are pads on. “


On if the described running drill will feature live tackling: “No, we will not be live tackling tomorrow. We’ll likely progress to that at some point. Also, when we install goal line and short yardage, we’ll do some live work then, as well.”


On LB Scott Solomon working with the first team: “We’ll rotate those guys. It depends on what package who will be out there with the ones. He’s really picked up where he left off from an effort and a mentality standpoint. We talked about the ‘Play Like a Brown’ attributes, and he fits them all. What separates him this year where we feel like he’s even better is that he’s gone through a spring in our system. He’s going through a training camp in our system. Last year, he came in and was essentially playing defenses off of cards as a scout teamer and then we had to teach him our core stuff on the fly to be able to function in a game. His knowledge base and experience in what we do is so much more this year. That’s why we’re very optimistic about Scott.”


On not yet having live place kicking in practice: “We’re still in the acclimation period. We’re going to get to the point, too, where you want it to be more pressure situations. We’ll do two minute. We’ll always try to incorporate the kicking in it, as well, manufacture some kicks in. Also, easing those guys in. It’s tough on their legs so we’re not going to kick every day. At this point, we’re pretty much on a one on, , one off type period. (P) Andy (Lee) didn’t kick yesterday; he punted today. Tabes (special teams coordinator Chris Tabor) did a really good job of managing it, and we’ll have a good sense when we’re done. Those guys will have plenty of reps under pressure for us to evaluate. “


On DBs Tramon Williams and Justin Gilbert competing for starting CB: “Tramon has been with the ones. It’s an experienced guy who has started in the NFL. He came in very quickly in the spring and picked up what we were doing. I think a lot of our guys are going to play, but if we had to say today who the starter is going to be, I would say it would be Tramon.”


On evaluating LB Barkevious Mingo: “I see him working back into it. It’s good to see him healthy, and hopefully, that will continue when we’re in pads. I know he’s been kind of snake bit with his injury history, but he’s a guy that can do some different things for us. He can cover tight ends man-to-man. He’s a much better space player than a lot of people give him credit for, which was a difficult transition being a college defensive end with his hand down all the time. He’s done a nice job in that sense. I think he’s really starting to improve, just seeing some of the drill work, as a pass rusher, but it needs to carry over to pads. He made a really nice move on (OL) Joe Thomas yesterday, but again, that’s in shorts. It has to carry over.”


On his early impression of LB Nate Orchard and looking forward to seeing him in pads: “There are some guys that you reserve judgement because their game is based on their physicality. We talk about being a good teammate and not being ultra-physical on teammates and plying within the rules that the league gives us in the offseason for permissible contact. He falls into that category. Solomon is another one that you look very much look forward to getting him in pads. We’ve played him a lot out of position when we’ve been in shorts just to get him work at coverage. He wasn’t asked to do a lot of it in college, and we’re not going to ask him to do a lot of it. While we have the opportunity in shorts, we got him that work. His primary deal will be hand down or in the two point setting the edge and rushing the quarterback.”


On if it is a challenge to keep a nine-year veteran like OL Joe Thomas interested during this part of the season: “It’s definitely up to the individual. Joe loves football. He has an exuberance about him. Anybody that knows him knows that he has a dry sense of humor and applies it often, as often as he can. He is a special player. He proves it every year. We did it last year. I mentioned it yesterday. I want to say tomorrow will be his day off. I think (offensive line) Coach (Andy) Mueller said we are going to go [one day off] every three [days] with him, with potentially some exceptions.”


On how OL Joel Bitonio can have a better second year after a successful rookie campaign: “Really just take the next step. He is a guy that is very passionate and loves football, very competitive, very coachable. I would be shocked if he doesn’t take a big step forward in year two, which is saying a lot for a guy who played as well as a rookie. He is all about football. That to me is you know you are going to be successful when you fill a roster with guys who love to play.”


On WR Shane Wynn and his size: “He fits right in with some of our other smaller guys. I was joking with Flip that we can have an all Smurf group out there. He has shown right away that it is not too big for him. He has picked up the X’s and O’s part right away. For his size, he has the skillset that you need when you have the lack of height – the suddenness and the ability to separate. I’ll be curious to see what happens in a live situation what he can do when he gets the ball in his hands.”


On how DL Billy Winn has looked this year and competing for a position, given the defensive players acquired by the Browns: “I think he has had one of his better offseasons. Physically, he has put on some weight, but it is good weight. We’re looking for big things, not just from him but the whole room. I think the competition is really going to force that room to work.”


On if he has talked to General Manager Ray Farmer about personnel duties during the first four weeks of the season: “I will let him speak to the plans if he is ready to. We have preliminary thoughts on it. I’m very confident given the time of year – you are coming off a lot of the decisions already being made. Whether it is (executive chief of staff) Bill Kuharich, (vice president of player personnel) Morocco Brown or whatever we decide to do, I have full confidence in that group. He will be the first one to tell you that you are only as good as the people you surround yourself with, and he has a heck of department.”


On QB Johnny Manziel’s performance today and if anyone challenged him after his performance yesterday: “No, it was a practice in shorts where you are just trying to execute one play at a time. I don’t want to make, too much gets made in that ‘He had a bad series of plays.’ He came out here today, just like any other day – he wanted to work to get better, and he took it one play at a time.”

http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-brow...g-camp-1.612392

Browns Texting Scandal Is Behind Ray Farmer And Mike Pettine
By DARYL RUITER, 92.3 The Fan Browns Beat Reporter

BEREA (92.3 The Fan) – Ray Farmer and Mike Pettine have let bygones be bygones.

Less than a week after Pettine denied any rift or problems internally, Farmer said all is well in Brownstown.

Farmer, who will serve a 4 week suspension for sending illegal and improper texts during games last season to staff and coaches, has cleared the air with Pettine over the last few months.

“The guy doesn’t invite you to his summer home if he’s mad at you or there’s a problem,” Farmer said. “Mike said it best, we’re singing from the same hymnal.

“The reality is that me and Mike have no issues. I can’t tell you when I’ve ever been in some knockdown, drag-out argument with the man, ever. I like Pett, think he likes me.”

Pettine expressed his anger and displeasure over Farmer’s actions at the NFL Combine but the 2 have buried the proverbial hatchet.

Buried deep in the 16-page decision from NFL commissioner Roger Goodell to uphold Tom Brady’s suspension in the wake of Deflategate was a note concerning the cooperation of Farmer in the league’s investigation of the Browns. Goodell used Farmer’s cooperation and Brady’s lack of cooperation justifying both penalties.

Farmer reiterated he was guilty and ensured that he cooperated fully with league officials when it came to light.

“I did. I turned over my cell phone,” Farmer said. “Again, I made the mistake, I made the admission, and it is what it is. I’ll deal with any penalty I got. If they saw fit to be lenient, then that was their call, but it wasn’t mine.

http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2015/07/31/ray-farmer-mike-pettine-relationship/#.VbvIuM4-tMs.twitter

See, we are the model franchise and the Patriots are the dysfunctional one. <purple>

Current ambient air temperature in Hell: 33F, and dropping.

Man - this can't be true. It is counter to so many people's agendas that this simply can't be true.

Yeah, I thought the Browns were dysfunctional.

Actions speak louder than words.

I agree.

Oh but it's 100 percent true

Browns owner Jimmy Haslam endorses his GM and coach: We're not going to blow things up

Continuing the theme of the first week of Browns training camp, owner Jimmy Haslam staunchly refuted any rift between his general manager and head coach. As the one who writes their checks, Haslam went a step further.

“We’re not going to blow things up, OK?” Haslam said in response to what has become an annual question.

“I think we’re on the right track, so we’re not going to blow things up. (I) understand why people might ask that after a couple bumps in the road the first couple years. I think we’re putting in place a good foundation.”

Haslam asserted that he feels the shotgun marriage of GM Ray Farmer and coach Mike Pettine – forged after Haslam blew up the Joe Banner-Mike Lombardi front office tandem in 2014 after one season together – is the right partnership to lead the Browns to the playoffs.

“I do. They’re both quality people. They’re both smart. They work hard. They work well together. And I enjoy working with both of them,” Haslam said.

Heading into his third full season of ownership, Haslam is determined to shed the image of having a quick trigger and build continuity in his organization. It was one of the early lessons of ownership after buying the team from the Lerner Family Trust for $1.005 billion.

“At the same time, I think it’s important to get the right people in the building,” Haslam said. “Maybe we did or maybe we didn’t at first, but I feel good that we have the right people in the building now.

On other topics, Haslam:

* Expressed satisfaction with Johnny Manziel’s commitment in his second season and patience with his overall football growth.

“I think we’re pleased that Johnny did the things he should do in the offseason. It was a great improvement over his first year, but anything less would have been totally unacceptable,” he said. “So he’s working hard. But playing pro football, you have to be a pro, particularly playing the position he does, so he’s got to work hard every day on and off the field. He’s making progress, but he’s got a long way to go. But we’re obviously pleased with the offseason.”

Haslam cited improvement in Manziel physically – “He looks like a pro athlete should.” – and said he is “clearly engaged” in his job this summer, as opposed to last year.

Despite the fact Manziel clearly is No. 2 at this camp behind veteran arrival Josh McCown, Haslam said “we’ve not at all given up on Johnny” and indicated Manziel is not in a make-or-break period.

“He’s barely 22 … he’s still young. So I think over the next couple of years we’ve got to see if Johnny can be a legitimate quarterback or not,” Haslam said. “I don’t want to put too much pressure on him or our coaches and say it has to happen this year.”

* Praised McCown’s character and intangibles but fell short of predicting he will be the quarterback to lead the Browns to the playoffs.

“I think in Josh you have a guy who’s played in the league, who’s experienced. But clearly we’ve put together a team that’s not totally reliant on great play by the quarterback,” Haslam said.

He added: “I think we’ve said numerous times you’re not going to win consistently in this league without a good quarterback, and we’re trying to make that happen.”

* Declined to state his expectations for the 2015 season.

“If I had said at this time last year we were going to be 7-9, you all would have said, ‘That’s pretty good,’” Haslam said. “The problem is we lost our last five. We get that and understand it and we’re not pleased with it. I don’t want to say that.

“At the same time, I think it’s unfair to say you have to win X amount of games. Because injuries happen, schedules are harder or easier than you think. It’s a tough league. I think you have to look at the body of work over a period of time. I feel good about where we are vs. where we were two years ago or even vs. a year ago.”

* Said that a deal to move portions of the 2016 training camp to Columbus is not finalized.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=47841

This is exactly WHY I have a huge issue with the powers that be. They said the exact same thing last year, and it was a LIE.

Credibility accountability and all that comes with it went out the window when the truth came out for me.

SAD.. I do not trust and I do not believe these people. Luckily I don't really have too, but then again what you say carries no meaning with me, prove yourself and rebuild the credibility you have lost via the lie's.

Pile on top of that some of the moves and non moves and I have begun to lose patients with this bunch. In other words part of the problem is them.

I think we see this a little bit differently. The bottom line of what we see is the same. The conclusion of how it ends up that way is different.

I always keep in mind that these guys are selling a product. It's a corporate business. As such it's their job to put a positive spin on everything. If there is dysfunction in this FO, are they going to come out and tell us that? No. If they're disappointed in JFF, are they going to publicly state that? No. That's just a part of doing business and trying to promote your product. For years now this time of year is what is used as a marketing tool to help inspire the fan base and get them excited. It is what it is.

So in the end, we both have a lot of suspicions in the things they say and we don't take them at face value. I just believe it has a lot more to do with marketing and promotion than it has to do with anything else.

I am so glad Haslam came out to shut guys like Grossi and McManaman up and hopefully BTTB up. These guys want the Browns to do bad. They thrive on the drama. They will manufacture drama where none exists.

Kirwan and Jim Miller were at practice today and had a ton of good things to say about what they saw. These guys are pretty straight shooters. Kirwan always calls it like he sees it.

The Browns are building something that they can eventually insert a QB into. You get rid of Pettine and Farmer after this year and that all goes up in smoke. Heck, Manziel appears to have had a couple of good days in a row. Perhaps we shouldn't give up on him just yet.

This team is building something. We need to let it play out.

I don't know if that is exactly accurate. I don't see how you can look at the performance of last years first round draft picks and text gate and paint things as being all warm and fuzzy. I don't know if you can look at Manziel, Gilbert and West, then say they drafted players that embody "Play like a Brown". There are a lot of questions still to be answered and I don't really believe people are making any of that up.



I believe you are correct here. When it comes to practice, you'll have good days and bad days. I don't really read a lot into that either way.



I don't see any reason to question that. We don't have dominant WR's or TE's, but without a strong QB it's not something I consider essential at this time.



Last year was the rookie year for Pettine as an NFL HC and for Framer as an NFL GM. I believe it's natural to expect some bumps along the way. I believe we saw more from Farmer than from Pettine, but I believe we need to let it play out to see how both of them mature in their positions.

As for Manziel, I didn't believe in him when we drafted him and I don't believe in him now. I certainly hope I'm wrong but as I said before, I don't put much stock in practice.



I know this FO and coaching staff is doing their very best to build a winner just like the other 31 NFL teams are doing. At this juncture I believe it's far too early to tell how much we've caught up, or lost ground on the other 31 teams.

I too believe we need to let it play out. I'm sure my signature should be a strong indicator that I'm a firm believer in continuity. As with anyone I have my limitations because continuity just for the sake of continuity isn't a sound principal either.

I'm one who believes it's far to early in the process of this regime to call them the answer or a failure. We should let it play out. But let me say this, IF JFF doesn't pan out and they score a zero on their next high investment at QB, I'll probably be inclined to move on from them.

I don't see Pettines comments as any reason for people to "move on" from their opinions however. He's say all the same things every NFL HC says this time of the year. It's the company line, breeds excitement in the fan base and sends a positive message to the players. It's what coaches are supposed to do.

Here's the bottom line. Cleveland fans are so impatient and want a winner so bad they can't help but stumble all over themselves. They fail to recognize one of the two biggest reasons they have been perennial losers. Lack of stability and continuity. The fans trip all over themselves trying to run every single regime out of here that doesn't produce instant results.

You keep bringing up your standard line of you don't want continuity for continuity sake. Who would you replace these guys with? Serious question. I know you'll say you can't answer it but that is a very big key question that will need to be answered by all the fans that can't wait to run these guys out of town. If you replace them with another set of newbies, what have you really accomplished?

Coaches and GMs are no different than players. They grow and develop as well. They make mistakes. Bellyache made a ton of mistakes in the 5 years he was here. And the media couldn't wait to run him out of town.

People need to be smarter about this. They need to understand what the root cause of the perennial losing is. So many people in daily lives never want to focus on the root cause of a problem. Instead they want to apply band aid after band aid. You never truly solve a problem until you fix the root cause. But fixing the root cause is hard and in this microwave society that is unacceptable to most.

Does this imply you have to put some blind faith into these guys? For a period of years, at least 5, yes. But I don't categorize it as blind faith. I would argue guys that get to the positions that Pettine and Farmer have can be successful with time. You are talkiing about a very small select group of individuals who can do their jobs. The Matt Millens of the football world are outliers, IMO. You're not going to get that level of incompetence in general from guys that get to that position. Pettine and Farmer have worked their way up to get their positions. They're not bumbling idiots.

I honestly think any fan who has any thought of firing these guys just enjoy being miserable. It's their happy place. Their comfort zone. That feeling is too familiar to want it gone.

Bud, I already answered that question. I said I think they should stay. Maybe you should read my post again?



Can you name one HC that we have had here since 1999 that has went on to be a good HC elsewhere in the NFL? Or do we just always hire the "outliers" as you claim them to be?




I don't believe they have been either but I still have some questions regarding Farmer. Respect is earned, not given. I don't believe that you put a simple time frame like "five years" on a new regime. So far since 1999 the indications are that had we stuck with any of those former regimes, it would simply have been even more time wasted. But as long as progress is made, you stick with it.



While I have seen people question some of their moves, and sometimes rightfully so, I don't recall hearing people calling for their jobs. It's far too early in the process to even consider that.

Every time someone questions decisions the FO makes, it doesn't mean they want them fired. It just means that nobody is perfect and that everyone makes mistakes. I believe if you wish to hit on this topic, you might wish to send Haslam an e-mail.

As far as this board goes, who's been asking they be fired?

I think you're fighting a straw man here.

I am trying to implore people to think of the big picture. Not textgate, not individual drafts, not individual drafted players. The big picture. You absolutely cannot win in this league without a QB. QBs don't grow on trees. And in the absence of a QB, an established identity and culture born through years of stability and continuity is the best way to success. It's also the fastest way for ultimate success when you finally find that QB and can insert him into that situation.

Look around the league. Understand what the successful teams do and don't do. Todd Haley was awful for the Steelers when he first arrived. That was the perception. There was infighting on the team between him and Roth. They stuck with him because they hired him for a reason. The Steelers are expected to have a high scoring offense this year now. They worked through it. All is right in Steeler land. Many are picking them to win the AFC North...maybe make some noise in the playoffs. There are examples all around the league of the right way to do things and many fans just ignore them.

What do you think would be more damaging to the Browns? This year's draft turns out awful, our record sucks, but we stick with Pettine and Farmer anyway or this year's draft turns out awful, our record sucks, and we fire Pettine and Farmer? What would be the better long-term decision for the Browns?

Big picture thinking.

Censorship is wrong.

How many people are calling for either guy to be fired? You sure weren't making these claims w/all the ignorant talk when Banner was here, but now, we are all supposed to just shut-up and never even discuss the merits of the moves these guys are making.

Insane.

I'm not surprised you responded the way you did.

It was actually predictable.

I stand by what I said.

Again...............please name all of these people who are calling for Farmer and Pettine to be fired?

What's a Banner?

You have a lot of nerve asking me that question when several days ago I asked you to list the people that give Farmer a pass on every move and you ignored the question. Still haven't answered it. LOL.

If you think I was talking about you as someone who wanted these guys fired I wasn't. Do you want me to identify fans that have come out and said "I want these guys fired?" I would have a hard time finding that quote. But I will predict there will be a growing contingent of Browns fans...not just those on this board...that will want one or both of those guys gone as the season moves on. If you want to hold me to that, feel free. It's not like it's hard to predict. How many times have we seen this movie?

I stand by what I said.

Your actually making the case for them to get canned, not me.

I never asked that anyone be fired but if they keep drafting JFers and letting winning QB's go to be replaced by losers well those decision catch up with you and you earn your way on the GM HC scrap heap.

Make no mistake Rish they will earn what they get this regime has enjoyed more overall support and a blind eye then any I can remember.

They start out drafting JF, then turn training camp last year into an open competition for the starters spot. Then when they decided to run with a QB, they didn't give him the kind of support your suppose to show for your starting QB, in fact if reports are true (which I believe BTW) Text was calling for the starter to sit early in the year.

I call it what it was/is bungling. You all call it rookie mistakes, OK ya got me. NOT

Their suppose to be professionals, their suppose to KNOW how to handle these things and they totally and completely blew it. Neither knows how to handle a QB that is plain as day. I will repeat this again, I said this very thing LAST year at the break of camp.

So this year they come out early and often they do all they can to surround McCown with receivers that are tall and have huge catch radius, they go further and name McCown the starter before OTA's. I applaud their reversal of handling but they just have to blow it somehow so they turn loose a QB that can win in favor of a QB that is a loser and I have to turn a blind eye again to their ignorance and mishandling all for the sake of continuity.....

I am not calling for their firing YET but they are inching closer with every used car sales pitch they pass off in place of sound smart football decisions. When it comes to the QB spot they have collectively been a down right disaster. I wished I could ignore it but I can't.

The biggest problem I have now is with them running their mouths. Shut up better to not say anything then to lie.

Pitt I think your response to me was spot on. I concur with your take, some is marketing if not all but I hate the used car salesmen pitch it insults my intelligence.