DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel.....continued

Not to worry. I wasn't offended. I don't have high expectations and assume the coaches already have their QB plan, at least to start the season. I am the eternal optimist & hope JFF or Josh prove me wrong, play solid QB, does not need to be spectacular for us to show more improvement.

JFF makes or breaks his future by whether or not he can TAKE the starting job, not by what he might or might not do if handed the job.

There's no reason to give it to him... if he can't take it from McCown, he doesn't deserve it and would very clearly not be the future.

Perhaps, we could very easily be in a situation similar to what we were in last year... if the running game is good and the defense is good, we could be at the midpoint, be over .500 and still have people questioning McCown like they were last year with Hoyer.. at which point, can you make a change? If Manziel looks equal to McCown? just a little better? I would think he would have to look a WHOLE LOT better at that point to make a change.. Pettine saw the wheels fall off last year (not that it was all on the QB more on injuries to other positions) but I'm betting that Pettine will be very cautious this year before pulling any changes unless we are really stinking it up... in which case, who cares.

whats voice mail?

http://www.espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=48121

BEREA -- Today’s Johnny Watch is dedicated to Browns Head Coach Mike Pettine who gave the watch a shout out today after practice. Coach Pettine was asked how he thought Manziel did today and responded with the following: “I saw him make some good throws, but I just don’t know off the top of my head. I don’t chart or do those statistics during training camp like some others do. I’ll defer to seeing the tape.”

Coach you don’t need tape when you have the Johnny watch (OK, maybe you do but for my ego’s sake let’s just agree that you don’t).

9:25am: Day six of training camp has begun and Johnny is the final QB out of the locker room on this Wednesday. Connor Shaw led the charge at 9:20am with Thaddeus Lewis and Josh McCown walking out together at 9:21am.

9:30am: QB/Center exchange work.

9:38am: Stretch time

9:46am: Offense Shell Drill from the 10-yard line. Manziel and McCown rotate on each snap.

9:53am: QB/RB Drills

9:58am: QBs work on footwork and agility

10:05am: QB/WR Drills

10:10am: Manziel and McCown work with QB Coach Kevin O’Connell while the other two QBs help out with an o-line/d-line drill.

10:18am: Goal Line Drill (11 on 11) (Numbers are NOT counted in the totals)

10:18am: Josh McCown (Numbers – 1/1 Passing with three handoffs (Offense scores three TDs in four tries)

10:22am: Johnny time (Numbers – 0/1 - Offense scores one TD in four tries)

Play #1 – Handoff to RB Jalen Parmele (No TD)
Play #2 – Handoff to RB Timothy Flanders (TD)
Play #3 – Incompletion after play action to TE E.J. Bibbs (No TD)
Play #4 – Timeout before the ball is snapped. Someone isn’t lined up right on the O-Line.
Play #4 – Handoff to RB Timothy Flanders (No TD)

10:26am: Josh McCown (Numbers – One handoff for no TD…Defense wins the jerseys)

10:39am: 7 on 7 Drill

10:39am: Josh McCown (Numbers – 1/4 Passing)

10:43am: Johnny time (Numbers – 3/3)

Play #1 – Completion to WR Vince Mayle
Play #2 – Completion to TE Rob Housler
Play #3 – Completion to WR Shane Wynn who fumbles the ball after the catch

10:48am: Josh McCown (Numbers – 1/2 Passing)

10:49am: Johnny time (Numbers – 1/2)

Play #1 – Incompletion to WR Darius Jennings
Play #2 – Completion to WR Shane Wynn

10:51am: 11 on 11

10:51am: Josh McCown (Numbers – 1/3 with one INT and a handoff)

10:54am: Johnny time (Numbers – 2/3 with one handoff)

Play #1 – Incompletion to WR Josh Lenz
Play #2 – Completion to WR Vince Mayle
Play #3 – Handoff to Timothy Flanders
Play #4 – Completion to WR Vince Mayle

11:00am: Josh McCown (Numbers – 1/2 Passing with a QB Run)

11:03am: Johnny time (Numbers – 2/3)

Play #1 – Incompletion to WR Vince Mayle
Play #2 – Completion to WR Darius Jennings
Play #3 – Completion to WR Rodney Smith

11:05am: Special Teams time. QBs go to work on agility.

11:14am: 11 on 11

11:14am: Josh McCown (Numbers – 2/3 Passing with one handoff)

11:19am: Johnny time (Numbers – 0/1 with a sack and two handoffs)

Play #1 – Incompletion to WR Rodney Smith
Play #2 – Handoff
Play #3 – Sacked. Normally I don’t chat sacks but this one was so obvious I had to chart it.
Play #4 – Handoff to RB Jalen Parmele

11:26am: Josh McCown (Numbers – 2/2 Passing with one handoff)

11:28am: Johnny time (Numbers – 2/2 with one handoff)

Play #1 – Completion to WR Darius Jennings
Play #2 – Handoff to RB Timothy Flanders
Play #3 – Completion to TE E.J. Bibbs

11:30am: Josh McCown (Numbers – 1/1 Passing with two handoffs)

11:35am: Johnny time (Numbers – 2/2 with one handoff)

Play #1 – Handoff to RB Jalen Parmele
Play #2 – Completion to WR Josh Lenz
Play #3 – Completion to WR Rodney Smith



UNOFFICIAL PASSING TOTALS FOR WEDNESDAY AUGUST 5th

Johnny Manziel – 12/16
Josh McCown – 9/17, 1 INT

UNOFFICIAL PASSING TOTALS FOR 2015 TRAINING CAMP

Johnny Manziel – 63/93 (67%)
Josh McCown – 78/114 (68%)

I'll say this for the umpteenth time: The best thing that could possibly happen for the Browns is to have Johnny win the starting job and prove that he is the guy moving forward.

It's encouraging to read these positive reports about his performances thus far.

he better or it is going to be a very long year.

That'd be one hell of a turnaround to come out and play well his year. The more I read into things, the more I believe that the coaches are firm behind McCown....

If the Browns were to have a schedule for Johnny, I think they would love to make this year a wash for him, and hand the job to him next year, with a full year of development. I think he'd go into camp next year with a firm grasp of the offense and hopefully an added weapon or two.

The only problem with that, is they have to know. They've gotta be certain. If the Browns can add a weapon next year, this roster will be ready to take the next level, but cannot risk it with a QB who hasn't proved anything. I know QB's don't grow on trees but I really wonder what the plan is... McCown is a virtual band aid, who was brought in to keep things steady, and mentor a young QB.

What if Johnny doesn't pan out? What if McCown gets us back to 7-9. I really wonder where we go from there.

We will learn a lot more about our QBs during the scrimmage Friday and again in that joint practice against the Bills. McCown was receiving huge praise in camp last year as well but when the bullets started flying he was ducking and chucking.

Agreed, If McCown starts we will have another QB controversy like last year. And even worse McCown does just enough with a good running game and defense to make it hard to justify pulling the plug on him putting the coaches again in an awkward position of when to make the switch. Even if they look evenly matched over the next few weeks there's no good reason to start McCown at some point we need to know if JM has it or we need to look for a QB next year.

Here is a spin that really isn't mentioned a lot around here. Johnny will turn 23 in December. This season will be mostly over at that point. In some ways this is like his Sr. season of college.

We have seen a maturation off the field. I expect we will see one on the field as well. I don't think there is any burning need to push him as starter. If McCown is as bad as many think, Manziel will get in there. We rushed it last season. We don't need to do that this season.

A few nice passes:

'WATCH: 4 highlights from Johnny Manziel's impressive Browns practice'

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...browns-practice

Still a long college season to go and we don't know which underclassmen will declare but this upcoming draft could be very deep and talented at the qb position.

We need to come to a conclusion on manziel by then. Though I guess unless McCown has a career year, if manziel can't supplant him then we have our answer.

Not really, as we are going to draft one next year even if Manziel should make the ProBowl.
Disclaimer: Nobody is predicting this to occur...

Why? What proof do you have of that?

Proof? None. McCown at best, has only one or two more seasons left. Whether Manziel studs out or not, we are going to need another QB. That is of course, unless you forsee Shaw as a viable QB...

Man that was some nice throws. That first was a good 55 yards in stride. I know these guys had the dbs beat but these were fantastic throws. His arm looks even stronger. The down the right sideline I think it was to Mayle impressed me because he didnt rush it. He re-adjusted his feet and fired a perfect throw. The arm looks golden.

McCown's gonna get the first crack but if Johnny keeps spinning it like this, he is gonna get his number called early. guys he was doing from the pocket.

+1, stated same thing...JM is 22, human body isn't fully mature...at it's peak until 28 or so in most cases...he can look, listen, LEARN, and then feel the heat...one good practice doesn't MAKE a QB...IF he beats out McCown, good....if not....no problem yet, he has time....GO Browns!!!

I think both hoyer and Manziel were completing under 55% and doing a lot more checking down. Someone had a chart on it showed their completion % and to which area of the field these passes were being completed and it was dumpdown central although Hoyer I think tore up the mid range middle of the field throws.

McCown and Manziel hitting close to 70 in comparison with more deepball emphasis.

Against a perceived better D as well.

There you go. A couple more thoughts.....McCown isn't all that old. If he plays like the team and us hope there is no reason why the guy can't play a few years after this season. QBs can play up to around 41-2 if they are in shape. By all accounts McCown is in top shape.

Also, nothing says we don't draft a QB even with Manziel on the roster. I know some think it is redundant, but the Pats have done this for years. At some point you can trade away the player. In the end it is about building a roster with talented players. I know some don't like blown picks at the top of the draft. I don't look at it that way. Once a player is drafted or signed, all that really matters is how the players play. Draft round is no longer important. As an example some are really ticked that Desire is playing better than Gilbert. To me it doesn't matter who or where guys emerge. The key is that someone does.

I think some have unrealistic expectations concerning a draft. Some act like you should hit all of your picks, when the reality is if you can pluck 2 solid starters a draft, you are doing a great job. It doesn't really matter when they were picked. Thus far I think Farmer has done a great job in selecting players. I will take him over Dwight Clark any day of the week.

JMO

J/C .... here's a revolutionary thought ... maybe we are actually trying to develop a QB for once.

Shocking.

If McCown starts and is mediocre, and Manziel looks evenly matched... what would be the point of making a switch? If Manziel doesn't look more than "evenly matched" with McCown, you already know what you need to know. Switching would be switching just for the sake of switching... it wouldn't accomplish a thing.

"ain't nobody got time for that!"

There you go again, trying to start wars

All kidding aside, I'm sure that's in the back of their minds, that and finding out what they have so they know what to do in the future in terms of FA's and Drafts etc.

j/c:



https://twitter.com/Mr_KevinJones

Well, that sounds pretty positive....

We have a saying in my family.... "one uh-oh cancels a lot of atta boy's"..

JM has a full ledger of Uh-oh 's from last year it's going take a hell od a lot more atta boy's for him to come out of the red... but here's hoping

No offense, but do you really think 3 starts constitutes a full ledger of Uh-ohs?

jester was referring to having to take a qb in the first round and maybe even trading up for one.

If Johnny makes All Pro, we will NOT be taking a qb in round 1. Guaranteed.

Well, if they are evenly matched--there is no doubt you start Manziel. He's younger. You don't play an old qb over a young qb if they are evenly matched.

Not to mention the invaluable experience you get from actually playing in real games. Not TC, not a scrimmage, not preseason.

Why/how would that ever matter?
If they're evenly matched, the result will be the same - so why and how would it matter who starts, and what would be the value in making a switch?

It will be McCowns 13th season. He is a finished product. He most certainly is not a hope as a future franchise QB.

With Manziel, you have a young guy with lots of room for improvement and if that improvement materializes, the possibility of a franchise QB.

So at that juncture, you have a Manziel that can improve, show his talent and potential moving forward.

With McCown you have none of that. If both are equal, it means Manziel has improved and is improving. One might be your future, the other never will be.

None taken.. but I was also considering the entire picture last year... drinking, fighting, carousing, not being properly prepared and taking the game / job seriously... those ....

That Cincinnati game was an entire ledger of uh-ohs... There was nothing but horrible mistakes, and complete confusion out there.

This was my original point, Manziel is young, has talent and lots of room to improve. McCown has none of those things and I'll add one more thing if McCown starts the season JM will not be getting any first team reps or game time so there we be no way for him to win the job after the point, the only way he sees the field after that is if McCown loses it through injury or stinking it up real bad neither scenario I want to see. So again if they look evenly matched in preseason you start Manziel hands down.

He has made a clear and deliberate 180 on those issues by his own choice if that translates to the field is yet to be seen.