DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh McCown...

I purposely don't use purple font. I think it lessens the intent.

I know.


And neither of them are all that similar to building a winning NFL team.

I think it plays a small part with many other factors. Otherwise, I don't think Jimmy Haslam comes out and tells the media that he isn't blowing anything up (hopefully that statement is true and not just more owner BS). The Chud firing had nothing to do with fans or media. That came out of nowhere. Even the beat reporters who have been around a while were stunned.

But in the past, I truly believe it had a small factor. I think its easier to sell a new regime, with new philosphies, and new ideas, than it is to sell continuous crap like you have seen with the Indians. Yes they have had 2 playoff appearances in the last 10 but poor drafting and mismanagement has kept them from being relevant.

It's not the deciding factor. It never was and never will be, but I think the media pressure both locally and nationally probably has a small effect. Just my opinion. Really more of a guess since none of us are in those offices.

I really wish some of you would take a page out of Paul Brown's book and say nothing when you win and even less when you lose.

Sheesh.......ripping on a team that continually finishes ahead of us.

Oh.........and guys. Modell practiced the art of continuity much more than Junior and Haslam.

I'm okay w/opinions, but man, lying about things is not cool.

Not to mention that Modell would have never fronted millions of his own money to upgrade the stadium.

No he wouldn't have. To me that is even further proof of how invested Haslam is to bringing a winner to Cleveland. In my mind, there's nothing lacking in his efforts and desire to accomplish this.

+1, Haslam wants a winner...anyone paying a billion buck+ has right to do what they want with their organization...JMHO....GO Browns!!!

Mary Kay Cabot ‏@MaryKayCabot 42m42 minutes ago Rocky River, OH
#Browns LT Joe Thomas tells @MikeAndMike the thing he's most excited about this season is QB Josh McCown. Agrees its McCown's team

Browns OL Joe Thomas gives an outlook for Cleveland in 2015, including the progress of Johnny Manziel and how difficult it has been to have inconsistent QB play under center

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=13408514

When your LT is happy,thankful,and looking forward to having a journeyman backup,to be your season starter....that sums it all up right there.

Yep ... sums up how some fans think they so know so much more than a pro bowl left tackle.

Great point. It's not like McCown has been in the league before. He's never played and hasn't established himself one way or another as a professional qb, thus we should all just chill.

I think it just depends on what version we are getting. He's been in the league forever, but not really a lot of meaningful starts. I think that gives him the label. If we get the Tampa version, we are hosed. But the offensive line was a disaster. The team lost their OC right as the season started. They really were without a plan, unless their plan was to suck to draft a qb. Now if one goes back to the Chicago days, he should have just replaced Cutler permanently. He really was playing good ball.

I'm cautiously optimistic on several fronts. I think he can hold the position down as long as the o-line stays together. If we get the ground game going it just opens up everything. And by all accounts, he has been an excellent mentor as well. If Johnny is going to succeed, that is absolutely critical. And if its not Johnny, he will mentor the next guy. He understands his role.

Of course, it does make me wonder why Tampa cut him lose, he would been a veteran mentor to Winston as well. Maybe it was a financial decision.

Here is what I know about him, mac:

Positives:
--Good size
--Faster than he looks
--Good character
--Decent arm

Negatives:
--Holds the ball way too long
--Makes bad decisions when pressured
--Is inaccurate once he's been pressured
--Terrible TD to Int ratio

Why do you always feel the need to make snarky remarks? No one answered his question and took a shot at you, but you couldn't help yourself. It's beyond old.




I think that this belief--and it seems rather prevalent around here---should be treated w/caution.

Just two short years ago, we opened the season w/Weeden at qb. I think the first couple of games were against Miami and Baltimore. We lost both. Proceeded to lose some more.

All the talk was about how terrible our OL was. The worst in the league. There was thread after thread and tons of posts about how freaking awful our OL was. Hoyer comes in and that talk stops..........Immediately.

Most people don't realize how important the QB is in regards to sack totals. We've seen it time and time again:

Timid held the ball way too long. Tons of sacks. His OL took the blame for all of them. Holcomb comes in and all of a sudden posters are saying the OL is playing well.

Frye took a ton of sacks. Posters blamed the OL. DA comes in and the sacks evaporate. The OL is making DA look good.

Weeden took a ton of sacks. The OL was horrible. Hoyer comes in and the sacks disappear. We have one of the best OL's in football.



Come on! It's freaking great comedy.

I hope people will keep an open mind when contemplating the various information that some of us are providing. When a qb holds the ball, the OL is blamed. When a qb gets rid of it on time, the OL is glorified.

I think we have a good pass-blocking OL, but if McCown holds the ball as long as he has in the past, this OL will not be regarded the way they are now.

Food for thought...........

cant believe people cannot grasp that simple fact.

It is odd how people can't connect the dots. I think we have great talent on the OL. Point being, they can't protect the QB forever. The quickness with which the QB read and reacts will be in direct correlation to how well our OL looks in pass protection.

And I will post the way I want. Here, watch this:

I think you are full of crap and you deliberately try to deceive posters w/half-truths, exaggerations, and outright lies.

Our line was fine a couple of years ago. If you couldn't see the difference in the number of sacks when Weeden played vs when Hoyer played than you are either blind or once again not telling the truth.

Not trying to be tough. I'm just telling you that your crap is beyond old. I am tired of you deceiving people and then talking out your butt w/comments about sorry if I give you hope. WTH???? Are you REALLY questioning the loyalty of fans like Pit and me because we have doubts about how good Josh "Freaking" McCown is????

Man it is tough to keep up on this board ... I can never remember, are we supposed to be just talking football? Or are we just being the victim? Or is it time to be abusive again? Somebody help me out so I can keep track.

I was at that Miami game, and the right side of our line featuring Oniel Cousins was on their ass in the backfield the whole game. It was pathetic.

The difference between 2.1 second and 4 seconds is not easily recognized by most fans.

You're beyond help.

pretty sure he was in the line he first 2 games hoyer started too. then lava came back for the third game where he got hurt?

I see what you did there

He started 4 games in 2013. The site doesn't say which ones.

yea. i remember saying after hoyer was in i wanted to see more of Oniel Cousins because he was looking so much better. at the time i thought he was getting it. you know it was the first time he played guard.

Not trying to be a jerk towards you. I think you are a good poster and a fair one, so please don't take this the wrong way.

The point I made about the difference in the perception of the OL when Weeden was the QB vs when Hoyer was the QB is very valid. There were numerous articles that spoke of QBs who held the ball the longest and those who got rid of it the quickest.

Weeden held it longer than anyone. Not totally sure about that, but pretty sure. If he wasn't the worst, he was right there. Hoyer, on the other hand, was getting rid of it quicker than almost any qb in the league. You can look this up if you don't believe me.

I think my point about how long a qb holds the ball is extremely valid. We can go back and track Joe T's comments about Frye/DA and Weeden/Hoyer as examples of offensive linemen believing the same thing.

I am NOT trying to call you out, but I am simply adamant about the importance of how long it takes a qb to deliver the ball.

I want to believe. I really do. It would thrill me to no end if Josh McCown became miracle boy and pulled a Jim Plunket or even a Rich Gannon..... Man the odds are against it. Less than 60% completion rate, twice as many losses as wins. He has thrown more TD's than INT's. So he's not an interception machine. But he's not a touchdown machine either..... At least until this point. Guess it's wait and see time. Not like we have another choice. It's McCown or nothing. I do want to belieive...... This being Cleveland and all, how often do these things work out for us? PLEASE don't let this be another craptastic season. I may be a die hard, but this is getting old.... Run the damned ball, play awesome defense, and grind out some wins. Peace

Hate to be a scrooge, but his TD/Int rate for most of his career has been horrendous.

It is Verse. In Walsh's book "Find the Winning Edge" he lists the most important QB traits. The ability to see and process information quickly and act is at the top. Speed at processing data is extremely important at the QB position. Dan Marino was highly immobile. Especially in his later years. But he got that ball out FAST.

I learned a lot from that book. Like never loan out a cherished book no matter who asks to borrow it!

I thought I saw a stat where he has a few more TD's than INT's? Not a lot mind you, but here in Cleveland you take any solace you can get lol. Pickings have been SLIM here in Browns town. How the hell did we get to a point where our only hopes at QB are McCown and Johnny Fragile? It's like they are doing it to spite us. Like we're some damned experiment by the NFL to see just how much a fanbase can take brfore totally shutting down....

Thanks Spirit.

I hope people will keep that in mind when I regarding what I said earlier to tab, which was: