Was there any QB's in this draft that the Browns could have gotten better than Geno? Would you take Geno over McCown and JM?
ALL four top QBs in last years draft were better then any QB in 2013. I wouldn't have drafted Geno Smith. If any, I'd take a chance with Manual, but from Browns point of view I'd have gone with Weed. How Geno is still QB is beyond comprehension. To think, they dumped Sanchez, another journeyman. It is why Jet's GM is no longer GM. Oh, by the way, Geno Smith can be McCown's ball boy. Yes, as bad as McCown's record is it is 10x better than Geno. McCown had five good games!!
I agree as far as 2014 they drafted JF now which of 2015 QBs other than the ones they had no chance of getting Mariota and Winston which is part of the question I asked could they have gotten better?
I know no one wants to hear it, but Banner had us on the right track. He simply did not receive enough time.
Well, I'll agree ... and disagree.
I think that Banner made a couple of good moves in free agency, and in the draft in his time in charge. Obviously he made great trades, with Trent, and in the draft.
In the draft itself, he took Mingo, McFadden, Slaughter, Armonty Bryant, and Gilkey.
2 years later, we have Mingo and Bryant left, and while both have flashed ability, neither has established himself as a quality starter, let alone a plus level player. Mingo played with a bum arm last year, and that had to take away from his overall game, but he really didn't show anything in 2013. He has been OK, but this truly is a make or break year for him. If he doesn't show special ability, be could be out. (and I do appreciate the way he handled pass coverage, but he was brought in to be a pass rusher) DQ could cover receivers pretty well when he was here too, but he was not a good 3-4 ILB. pass coverage alone will not make Mingo worth his higher dollar contract. He has to show more.
A lot of people really love Bryant, and while I see talent in him, the reality is that he has done very little so far. In his 1st 2 seasons, he has 23 tackles and 3 sacks. He shows promise, but sooner or later that promise has to make it to the field.
So, 3 years later, Banner's draft is really under the microscope.
He signed Kruger and Bryant as free agents. Kruger has been excellent, but Bryant has been up and down, and injured off and on. Some of Bryants problems probably could not be foreseen, given the nature of his heart issues, so in fairness that really can't be held against Banner. However, since when is the NFL fair?
He hired Chud and has to bear some of the responsibility for the massive meltdown that occurred at the end of the 2013 season, where he was reported to have been meddling with the coaches to an extent that makes texting look like nothing, and undermining his coach. He assured the fans, press, and the owner that he would hire a high power coach. No one, not one, wanted to come here. Why would they? The team had little talent, no QB, no RB corps, no WRs, no ILB. and little depth anywhere.
Like Farmer or not, at least he did address all of those positions, QB certainly did not work out, but he made moves to address every single of those weaknesses. He rebuilt the RB corps. He added WRs to the team, who contributed in a major way. He signed Dansby (my favorite move of the year) and he drafted Kirksey. (not one of my favorite moves at the time) He also drafted Manziel and Gilbert. I remember you and I being happy about the Gilbert pick, even though others were not. I was cautiously optimistic about Manziel, seeing it as a worthwhile risk, but was very cautious. I was not sure he could ever be a great NFL QB, but when you don't have a QB, you need one.
However, Farmer hit a home run with Bitonio, who looks like an All Pro player in the making. Kirksey and West were useful player, and Desir has jumped ahead of a lot of guys so far, according to camp reports. It remains to be seen how these picks pan out in year 2.
One good thing ...... IIRC, he was the one who did not want Schiano ..... who I think would have been a disaster here. I definitely thank him for that.
However, when he did not get his high power coach, he also wanted to hire the assistants, and have them directly report to him .... like he was the pseudo coach from his office in Berea. There is absolutely no way that could ever be a successful situation.
He hired Farmer. This is a mixed move so far, with much TBD.
Overall, I am nowhere near as positive about Banner as you were. When he was hired, I was willing to give him a shot. When he hired Lombardi, and the fanbase went nuts, I was willing to give them both a chance. Both men did some good things, and both were involved in some absolute disasters. Right now, I am not at all sad to see him gone.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Some of the clowns we've had in here to coach (Shurmur comes to mind)... I'll take Pettine all day over that happening again. As for Farmer, jury is still out but I feel we are heading in the right direction talent wise.
I'm simply perplexed as to why you would pay someone 100k to evaluate the QB's in a draft then completely ignore their findings. If you knew the answer, why hire them? If you felt the need to hire them, why ignore them?
Sometimes, Consultants are used to confirm an established opinion. It could be that simple I guess
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Every good move, had a terrible counterpart, and he was a fake as a three dollar bill with an ego to match..
No thanks, I am glad he is gone.
Banner made some good moves but at the end of the day, Haslam felt Banner needed to go. Obviously Haslam had his reasons and does not feel the need to justify his decision.
The media and fans are left to speculate as to the reasons why Banner was fired...most have preferred to move on.
Browns fans are not responsible for Joe Banner being fired. The media is not responsible, either.
Joe Banner is the one responsible for Joe Banner being fired from the Browns GM position...Joe got himself fired.
You guys need to put Tennehill into the conversation. Richardson was taken in his place.
Now I agree that 3 would have been higher than I would have pegged Tannehill, but he deserves a point in the discussion.
I would have taken him top 5. I felt within 3 years he would be an upper tier QB and he was a top 10 QB last year. He is a top 10 QB and RG 3 is damn near out of the league. yes I am patting myself on the back lol. Now Johnny just has to make me look like a genius as well lol
I agree as far as 2014 they drafted JF now which of 2015 QBs other than the ones they had no chance of getting Mariota and Winston which is part of the question I asked could they have gotten better?
None.
The real question started when you said Banner passed on good QB.
I agree as far as 2014 they drafted JF now which of 2015 QBs other than the ones they had no chance of getting Mariota and Winston which is part of the question I asked could they have gotten better?
None.
The real question started when you said Banner passed on good QB.
Not really but it is not worth spending any more time on. The real question started at the perplexed post.
Here's what Browns coach Mike Pettine is saying after fifth practice of training camp
By NATE ULRICH Published: August 4, 2015
Browns coach Mike Pettine met with reporters Tuesday after the fifth full-squad practice of training camp. Below is a transcript from the team.
On WR Terrelle Pryor’s status: “I don’t think it was anything serious, but you never know. We will get an image and see where we are with it.”
On if they had Pryor throw some balls today to take advantage of his skillset: “Yeah, special plays are going to be part of our plan each week. You want to have those up so the sooner we can start working on them, the better. I am a firm believer of always having that option. It is there, you have a couple practiced and ready to go. You get into a game where there is a lull on both sides and offensively you need something to break it open; you always want to have that to go to and a guy like Terrelle certainly gives us that ability”
On the early issues DL Danny Shelton and Xavier Cooper face: “I think they are having some of it. It is just typical stuff. I think they are both where we thought they would be. It is just getting used to the speed of the game and having to process quickly the terminology and all those things. The physical part of it going against guys that are NFL sized and NFL caliber players. That is a big part of it. They are both where we thought they would be or a little bit ahead.”
On the worry of spreading OL Cameron Erving too thin across the line: “It is out of necessity when we give guys days off to bounce him around a little bit. I think as camp goes on he’ll settle in. A lot of the technical things, the offensive line play like blocking a guy who is shaded on you is the same technique whether you are the right guard or the right tackle, or the center or left tackle. I think that is a little overrated as far as moving positions and getting used to it. He is a guy who I think as we get closer to the opener and we settle on how we are going to play. You will certainly see not just him, but all the players settle into the positions that will play a majority of the time.”
On which position will Erving settle: “I don’t know if I can answer that just yet. We haven’t even had a scrimmage yet. I will be able to answer that question a lot easier when we get going against some competition.”
On if TE EJ Bibbs is continuing to impress: “He is. He is. He has exceptional hands. I think he has displayed that throughout all the time he has been here. He has a lot of the detail stuff to work on and it is a lot for him from a playbook standpoint. I am pleased with where he is. He is a guy that impressed us from the day he walked in here. There has not been a drop off since we put the pads on. He physically has the skill set to play in the NFL. We’ll see how it plays out once we start playing games.”
On what allows DB K’Waun Williams to always be around the ball: “First thing that tells you is that he is getting targeted a lot. That’s one thing teams are identifying him as a guy to go to. He responded and made a lot of plays. There are some guys that just have a knack for finishing as a defensive back, understanding the timing, not fouling and being able to get the hand in and make a play. We are confident that he is going to take a big step in year 2. We are very pleased with what he did in year 1 as an undrafted free agent. He is going to be a big part of what we do.”
On DL Billy Winn’s status: “It was more of an ankle (injury) than knee. That was encouraging, but it will still be a little bit of time. At least a week and we will evaluate it then. We were pleased that it wasn’t anything serious from a knee standpoint.”
On if they signed two RBs because of RBs Terrance West and Duke Johnson Jr. not being completely healthy: “And (RB Luke) Lundy. With Duke being down – just to be able to practice we had to get some guys in here.”
On Winn has a high ankle sprain: “I don’t know if it was classified as that. I just know it was ankle but I don’t know – if it is I don’t think it was the severe type where you’re talking six to eight weeks.”
On if RB Duke Johnson’s injury is hamstring related: “That I don’t know. It’s just disappointing that a guy that we’re counting on to be a big part of what we do, to lose him at this formative time of what we’re getting done, that’s tough. He’ll have a lot of catch up work to do. We’re making sure he gets all of those reps mentally. But there’s no substitute for actual live reps.”
On if TE Gary Barnidge is a larger part of the passing offense than anticipated: “I don’t think so. I think we kind of see those three guys, for sure, just the skillset where (TE) Jim’s (Dray) more the blocker type, (TE) Rob’s (Housler) more the receiving type and Gary I think does both of them pretty well. He’s versatile and he’s also shown that he can come up and make big plays in big situations. Very pleased with where Gary is.
On if last season’s offensive trouble converting turnovers is deflating as a former defensive coordinator: “That’s last year. That’s always a point of emphasis. When you get a short field you have to take advantage of it. You prefer to score touchdowns obviously. Just like when- we consider, when you get a team backed up and you get a stop that’s close to being a turnover, you’re usually going to get some form of scoring out of it- prefer it to be a touchdown. Any time you’re on a short field, that’s important for you to get the momentum swing of a take away. Just overall feeling on the offense side. It was a lot for them in the spring and I think some of our guys were overwhelmed with the inventory. I think it’s been much smoother in training camp, now with it being the second time through- very pleased with where we are. I know our defensive guys called each other up and I don’t think that happened all of training camp a year ago. That’s a sign that the offense is having some production.”
On if last season’s offensive missteps were a source of frustration: “Losing games was the biggest source of frustration.”
On comparing DL Phil Taylor and DL Danny Shelton’s body types and performance: “I haven’t really studied their bodies to compare them. That’s not on my to-do list. I think you need that body type in the middle to stop the run, especially when you want to play some more coverage and allocate more players to defending the pass, then you have to have a guy that can eat up two blocks and not let one of those blockers off on the second level. We always feel, anytime you can play one of ours to two of their at the point of attack in the run game, you’re going to be successful. That’s what both of those guys do, that their body types can do for us.”
On if the team enjoys playing in different stadiums: “I just like it because we’re going somewhere different and it will be a different atmosphere. You want to see- ok guys can make plays out here on the practice field but now you have to- I mean we play games in that type of atmosphere and that’s important to see who’s going to thrive in that environment and who might drop away.”
On if the minor injuries are frustrating in training camp: “It is because you have to practice it. It’s hard when the lineup is constantly being churned like the way it is. You want to be able to settle in at some point during camp. That’s important because those guys are all young, they need their reps. When they’re not out there that is a source of frustration. “
On FB Malcolm Johnson’s status: “I don’t know. I don’t have that report yet. I know he’s gone in to be evaluated.”
Where I think fans often make a mistake is when they use that frustration by feeling all of that is to blame on the current regime. While some find it hard to do, we must be able to separate those facts to each regime and not lump them all together.
I agree with that completely. I know the one word Browns fans hate to hear is "patience"... but it's a word that needs repeating.
We often said that we were drafting these QBs and putting them immediately in a position to fail... we didn't have the talent, the OL, the WRs, whatever.... then we would change coaching staffs on our young QBs all the time..... now I'm not saying any of them were going to be really good but we didn't do any of them any favors or increase their chances for success...
I read somewhere that Pettine strongly feels that there will be 2 UDFA that make the team. He didn't elude to whom but I believe one of them is Bibbs. The other could b an OL we added? or maybe one of the kickers?
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Here's what Browns coach Mike Pettine is saying after seventh practice of training camp
By NATE ULRICH Published: August 6, 2015
Browns coach Mike Pettine met with reporters Thursday after the seventh full-squad practice of training camp. Below is a transcript provided by the team.
On if there were other injuries during practice today: "Yeah. (TE Kevin) Haplea got rolled up on during the inside drill. He's being evaluated, that was a knee, not sure how serious. (DB Pierre) Desir we just think is a soft tissue we'll know a little bit more once it's evaluated."
On a timetable for LB Barkevious Mingo coming back: "Do not. We'll know better- it was today so we'll know better coming out of it. Sometimes when they go in, you never know if they find anything additional."
On if Mingo felt discomfort before training camp: "I don't think so. I think that was isolated to one play, I think something happened. I haven't seen it on tape yet to know exactly, what happened to it. But it was definitely a one play situation."
On if he feels for players, like Mingo, with training camp injuries: "You always do, especially a guy that works that hard, that is that quality a character, an individual that it's important to him and he puts the time in. Unfortunately, you have some guys that get some unfortunate injuries but you root for guys like that to come back, and come back and play well."
On DL Armonty Bryant getting more reps at outside linebacker due to teammates injuries: "Armonty's been playing a good amount of it, just kind of gets hidden. He doesn't stand up as much as the other guy. We give those guys an option in some of our calls it could either be a two point or a three point. He might be playing outside backer but his hand is down so it's going to appear to the casual observer that he's defensive end. What it really means is that Kruger will take on some more of our SAM linebacker role along with (Nate) Orchard who we've been prepping to do that. We might have to package some other things, using whether it's an additional safety or and additional inside linebacker. But still, we're a ways away from having to worry about that chart from a game standpoint."
On which players may be overlooked: "(TE E.J.) Bibbs is a guy I mentioned before, he's having a pretty good camp. The one guy that, to me, were all extremely proud of because we know how hard he's worked, is (OL) Michael Bowie. This is a guy that sat out all last year and that's tough to be in the building and be injured. You just feel like- because nobody knows what to say to you so it's a very quiet world you live in. You feel very much alone that way. Here's a guy that just worked and worked and really transformed his body. If you watch the tape he's so much quicker than he was before, even from the spring. Here's a guy that's pushing to be a part of what we do. That's a credit to him."
On if he has seen consistency in player performance: "I would say most are, some aren't. That's what I spoke to the guys on the field afterwards, just raising our level of consistency. We all know what our goals are and the goals are lofty which means we have to hold our guys to lofty standards. You just can't practice at this level and expect to play, here. It's about professionalism and consistency. There's a ton of examples of guys that are getting better each day and fighting through. Today was a tough day I could tell we were a little heavy legged. We scaled back practice some and then we'll get some time now to recover before we're out on the field again with the scrimmage. The scrimmage won't be a ton of reps and then they'll get another off day after that so I'm confident we'll get it back. Today was just a tough day to push through and some guys handled it better than others."
On if he was trying to give DB Justin Gilbert more reps at practice today: "Just wanted to – once we get a sense for a guy that their reps are starting to build up. Because you never know the type of reps too, if he has to cover a bunch of long balls and his running gets extended at times during practice- especially the receivers and the DB's we'll look to shut him down at a certain point."
On QB Johnny Manziel's progress after two good days of practice: "Absolutely. When you come in everyday with a great attitude and you work and it's important to you, you can't help but get better. I'm just happy for him that he's getting the results on the field and the guys around him sense that as well."
On if WR Terrell Pryor's time out due to hamstring issues is a problem: "I wouldn't say- when he gets back, I mean he's getting the mental reps now but sure any time you're competing to make a roster and you lose time - You have competitors stepping in and taking those reps. It is unfortunate that he's pulled up, hopefully we'll get him back sooner than later."
On if it is fair to say he did not find a backup kicker during the OL vs. DL Field Goal competition: "Very fair to say. Our backup kicker is not in the O-Line room or in the D-Line room."
On WR Shane Wynn: "He's a guy that I think, for obvious reasons, gets overlooked just because of his stature and all he does is come out here and work and look to make plays. He's done a nice job because we brought him in late so he was a little bit behind as far as learning the system. Credit to him, he was able to pick it up quick, he knows what to do. When he gets a chance to make a play he makes it."
On details about the Orange and Brown scrimmage: "We're going to start it off with more-similar to what we did a year ago. We'll do some 7-on-7 work and some crossover work with the line. Some one on one blocking and maybe some group protection stuff to get them some reps there. It will primarily be ones against ones, twos against twos, threes against threes. The quarterback rotation will- we'll get (QB) Josh (McCown) some reps, but maybe not as many as the others. You'll probably see Johnny out there with the ones. I don't know if they've totally etched that into stone but that was the direction that we were heading. All of the coaches submitted their plan for their guys and it's up to coordinators to put that together. I think that's tentatively, now, what the plan is."
On if there will be tackling at the scrimmage: "Yes. Yes."
On Bibbs spending more time in the backfield with player injuries: "He is, because I think he has that skillset that he can handle some of that interior blocking- his interior blocking assignments. All of the pass- all of the receiving stuff, that's his strong point. We've got to get him coached up a little bit better with the other jobs, that's certainly a void now with (DB) Malcolm (Johnson) out. Haplea was doing a good job with it too and unfortunately got injured today."
On QB Josh McCown's not getting reps with the ones at the scrimmage: "You want to mix up the reps- Josh will not go with the twos. Guys that are competing to be your number two quarterback, unfortunately and it happens every season in the NFL you just have to go out and play with that group. You don't want the first time that he's out there with that group of guys to be in a game. I wouldn't read too much into it that he's going with the ones. Josh, right now is firmly the one but don't be surprised at some point during camp if you see maybe Thad (QB Thaddeus Lewis), maybe even (QB) Connor (Shaw) with that group as well."
On why NFL coaches wear long sleeves at practice: "That is a good question. That is really random too. To me it's like, I don't know, the coaches that sit in the sauna. The passive, the corporate workout that I'm getting a little bit, maybe sweating a little bit more. I don't know, maybe- I got plenty of sun during the summer so the less I get here is probably the better."
On if he is investing in drone security after a drone flew over practice: "That is not ours for the record. I know I've been asked about that before but the FAA probably got a phone call. Somebody told me, I guess the airspace over the field is obviously private but it's ok to be over, as long as it's outside of the fence. That drone was definitely- it might have been Ravens or Steelers or Bengals, but it was not…I mentioned shooting it down, but you have to get creative in how you do it."
On what he has seen Manziel improve on this year: "Some of its physical but I would say the majority of it is the mental part of it, understanding protections. The one play he made where defense was a heavy blitz look he walked up, changed the protection, stepped up in the pocket and threw a touchdown pass. That was probably, start to finish, his best play of camp. But it just typified his- it was more preparation than anything else. I just think he has so much more of an intimate knowledge of what we're doing."
On if Hartline is establishing more of a connection with McCown: "He is but that's who Brian is, that's who he's been. As I mentioned before, when I was in New York it was always –all this guy does is get open and catch the ball other than that he's not very good (laughter). He continues to prove that here. Ultimate professional, comes out and works every day. I think he has great body control. His catch radius is tremendous and he's a veteran, he just knows how to get open, he understand it."
On If DB Tashaun Gipson had the day off or if he is injured: "He got dinged a little bit on the goal line so it was more of a precautionary thing. Just hold him out today and we'll evaluate him tomorrow as whether he can take some reps in the scrimmage but its nothing long term."
On RB Glen Winston: "Winston got surgery today as well. He's also- I believe it was a scope, but that was something he reported here with it. We just thought we could get it to calm down and it didn't so we made that decision to get I operated on."
On if Pryor will play in the scrimmage: "No."
On if Pryor will travel to the scrimmage: "Yes."​
On if he was trying to give DB Justin Gilbert more reps at practice today: "Just wanted to – once we get a sense for a guy that their reps are starting to build up. Because you never know the type of reps too, if he has to cover a bunch of long balls and his running gets extended at times during practice- especially the receivers and the DB's we'll look to shut him down at a certain point."
He is saying he was giving Gilbert #1 reps. Cause the other CBs ahead of Gilbert - Pettine is saying they have a good grasp on what they can do by now. So in lieu of covering (rotational) WRs and some on long routes. Might as well shut down those CBs (cause again they got a good look at them already) and give others a chance.
In other words don't read too much into Gilbert working with the #1s. He is still behind in the depth chart.
Hope that works for you.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
On if he was trying to give DB Justin Gilbert more reps at practice today: "Just wanted to – once we get a sense for a guy that their reps are starting to build up. Because you never know the type of reps too, if he has to cover a bunch of long balls and his running gets extended at times during practice- especially the receivers and the DB's we'll look to shut him down at a certain point."
Can anyone interpret that?
Actually, the question was in the context of Haden coming off the field. Haden had covered a lot of long balls in series so they took him out for a few plays and Gilbert was the next man available. I heard the presser yesterday. terrible transcription.
Mike Pettine Press Conference, Orange & Brown Scrimmage -- August 7
Pettine talks to reporters after Friday's scrimmage
On the atmosphere in Columbus:
“It was great. It is a football town. It was a real good trip for us. It was good to come down here. The turnout of our fans speaks for itself.”
On who stood out in the scrimmage:
“It is hard because I think we had some guys do some really good things, and we made some mistakes. It was a typical first scrimmage-type atmosphere – a lot of self-inflicted wounds on offense, especially with some of the down the line groups. Overall, very pleased offensively. We scored some points. Defensively, we have some things to clean up, but we made some plays. It is great teaching tape. You can’t replicate this in Berea. To come down here in this atmosphere to practice and knowing it is on TV and in front of a crowd, guys separate themselves. There is no substitute for getting this kind of work.”
On why QB Johnny Manziel did not get any reps with the ones:
“When we went through the depth chart at the end with guys who were nicked up and not able to go, we just couldn’t get them both enough reps. It’ll happen in the preseason game, but the way we were depleted with injuries and being cautious with guys, there was just no way to do it without putting other guys at risk.”
On why DB Joe Haden and OL Alex Mack did not participate in the scrimmage:
“It was more precautionary with Joe, and with Alex, he was good to go, but we just held him out of this. He will get plenty of work in the preseason games.”
On the Browns being cautious with Haden: “A little muscle tightness.”
On Manziel’s performance:
“The thing that jumps out, he is much less antsy in the pocket. He sets his feet, which you really didn’t see much last year. He is trusting his reads. I thought he placed the ball – I thought his location accuracy was good tonight.”
On DL Danny Shelton’s play, hustling toward a receiver on the sideline:
“I know he is not the fastest guy, but when he gets there, he packs a punch. I was just happy to see (WR) Marlon (Moore) get up from that shot.”
On Shelton being on the field for passing downs: “I have no problems putting a big guy out there on third down. If teams do want to run it, he can disrupt it, and we can still be in light spacing from a team standpoint. He is a guy that can push the pocket. Sometimes, you get these lighter pass rushers that these offensive lineman can control, and if a guy struggles with a bull rush, you are going to put a guy like Danny out there.”
On how encouraging it was to see the ones on offense be successful, especially McCown:
“That is what he has been doing in practice. I am glad he was able to carry it over into this type of environment. I think (TE) Gary Barnidge is very underrated. He just does his job and makes plays. I think Josh showed off his athleticism a little bit on the roll out. He outran (LB Paul) Kruger and then threw the strike.”
On if the team’s support is important to QB Josh McCown
“I think that’s any team. I think our guys just feel so positive about not just Josh but the quarterback room. To me, it’s any team.”
On if the kickers got off to a good start:
“I didn’t see halftime, but I thought certainly (K Travis) Coons hit the big one in the body of the scrimmage. I think in this atmosphere, they kicked well.”
On DB Justin Gilbert’s injury:
“The Gilbert question, I know he hurt his wrist on the ball in the back of the end zone. I haven’t heard from (Head Athletic Trainer) Joe Sheehan yet just how he finished up. I know he was a little banged up, but he pushed through it.”
On the amount of fans at tonight’s scrimmage: “It speaks for itself. It’s Cleveland Browns fans. It’s loyal, passionate, whether they’re here in Columbus, a lot of them made the trip down (I-)71 or came from all over the state. People love this team, and we feed off that. It’s great for our guys to see that.”
On WR Josh Lenz and WR Shane Wynn making a case for making the team:
“It’s every year you get some off-the-radar guy that shows up. Those are some of the [guys] – (TE E.J. Bibbs) again, he made some plays, and the guys that you mentioned. We saw something in them to bring them here and a lot of that is credit to (General Manager) Ray’s (Farmer) group that can find those guys, whether it’s after the draft or wherever we acquire them from, and they can come here and be productive.”
On Manziel not getting reps with the ones today:
“That was the first question. It just didn’t work out with the injuries we had and holding guys. We would have had to put too many guys at risk to get them both a number of reps. Josh didn’t get that many reps to begin with.”
On if he sees things differently now, being more involved in the offense: “They do. It’s a matter of focus, listening to the call, hearing the line calls hearing the communication. I’m in those meetings and kind of know what it’s supposed to look like and sound like. It’s just natural that that’s an area that I’m focused on.”
On if nights like tonight will help Manziel’s performance: “Sure. Anytime you go out and play well, it’s a boost of confidence, especially this is not your normal practice. To do it in front of a bunch of fans in a competitive environment like that, I think it’s great for the kid.”
On Coons’ two field goals: “I have to go back and see what Tabes (special teams coordinator Chris Tabor) thinks about the operation time and how the kicking went at halftime. He didn’t look out of place as a kicker. He had some big kicks.”
On K Carey Spear not having any field goal attempts: “Yeah, but we still have four games to get it worked out. It was a good start. We got those guys a lot of reps.”
On LB Nate Orchard’s progress: “Nate’s quietly just getting better. Very heavy-handed guy. This is his type of environment. It was hard for him in shorts to really show up. We talked about that before. It’s encouraging to see a guy, a rookie that kind of starts and he’s a little bit lost and gradually starts to come on once he gets it.”
Mike Pettine wants Browns to be physical, not combative, in practices with Bills
Cleveland hits the road for New York on Sunday
Mike Pettine has made it more than clear he won’t tolerate any after-the-whistle shenanigans between his players and the Bills when they participate in joint practices Monday and Tuesday.
But after tackling that very subject following Saturday’s practice, Pettine paused for a second before emphasizing one of the main reasons why he was so intrigued by the idea.
“Understand,” Pettine said, “we’re not going up there to have a pillow fight, either.
“Hopefully it’ll be clean … both teams are wanting to establish the physical part of the game. We’re looking to get some good solid work out of it.”
The Browns will go through one more practice Sunday before they board a train to Pittsford, N.Y., a suburb just outside of Rochester. They’ll go through two practices before returning to Berea on Wednesday. The two teams square off Thursday at FirstEnergy Stadium in a primetime, nationally televised broadcast.
Officially, this will be Pettine’s first venture into joint practices, a growing trend throughout the NFL. As a member of the Ravens coaching staff, Pettine would sometimes go on day trips to practice with another team but never the kind of endeavor he’s about to experience in the coming days coaching against his good friend and mentor, Rex Ryan.
Pettine also has a close relationship with Bills offensive coordinator Greg Roman and a number of members of the Bills defensive coaching staff. Pettine was Buffalo’s defensive coordinator for one season before he was hired by the Browns.
“Anytime you can collaborate that way, you’re going to get a lot of good work done,” Pettine said. “You get the exact work that you want and it’s also in a controlled environment. We’re not going to be live. You’re minimizing the risk for injury but you’re getting work done against another NFL opponent. It’s a win-win. It’s not a surprise that more teams aren’t doing it.”
In recent days, Cleveland’s and Buffalo’s coordinators have been in constant communication as they formalize the practice schedule. Pettine said there will be a “move the ball” period at the end of each practice but there won’t be a true scrimmage.
After seeing 19 players miss Thursday’s preseason opener, the Browns are slowly getting their players healthy and back on the field. A number of them saw increased workloads at Saturday’s practice, and Pettine expects to have a even deeper group by the time Monday’s session with the Bills begins.
All are aware of how Pettine wants to see them perform in this unique setting.
“I'm very much looking forward to it,” Pettine said. “I have a bunch of guys on staff that have been a part of it and they highly recommended them so it was a no-brainer for us talking to the Bills at the combine and getting this arranged.
“We definitely talked to our guys about, ‘hey, we're going to be competitive, just not be combative.'”
The Browns head coach talks to the media after Monday's joint practice with the Bills
hotogallery data-galleryurl="/cda-web/photo-gallery-module.htm?id=5f59afca-8351-4e1d-ad14-fa5b8f2434dc&viewName=full-width-gallery&adFrequency=6&adDuration=15&cssClass=light" data-sitewidth="980" data-embedwidth="550" data-numpics="25" data-coverimagepath="/assets/images/imported/CLE/photos/clubimages/2015/08-August/tempDSC09340--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.jpg" data-title="Photos: 2015 Training Camp - Browns travel to Rochester" class="center" style="display: inline-block; position: relative; width: 620px; margin: 0px; text-align: center;">hotogallery> VIEW GALLERY | 25 Photos Photos: 2015 Training Camp - Browns travel to Rochester
On how practice went today: “I think it will be some great tape to go off of. Anytime you can get out and against another team in a semi-controlled environment you are going to get more work done than going against yourselves. Some of these situations are even better than the preseason game. You can simulate some things and then not put your quarterbacks at risk. I think it is good work. To me the biggest misfortune is obviously Ty Powell. I don’t have the details on it, but I understand it is a knee (injury). Got to know him a little bit when I was here a couple years ago. Great kid. It is tough to see that.”
On if both defenses were ahead today: “I spent my time over here (with the offense) for the most part. The Bill defense I thought had the upper hand. I think some of our guys had different tempos. They have to understand the guy across from them is going at game type speed, other than the live tackling part. We were inconsistent with our expectancy of what we were getting from the other side. I thought (Buffalo) did a good job. We made some plays. Unfortunately I thought some of the self-inflicted stuff that we have been able to avoid a lot at camp; jumping off-sides, two bad snaps that likely would have been positive would have been disastrous as a part of a drive. Very much looking forward to getting back and seeing what it looks like on the film.”
On the major benefit of practicing against another team: “I think the energy is that of – it is game type speed, especially inside with the lines. To me it is competing against somebody other than your own. You kind of get in a comfort zone when you are going against your own guys and you don’t get a good sense for where you stand. I think the adrenaline ratchets up a little bit and guys want to prove something to other guys in the league. I think it is just naturally just better competition.”
On the unscripted period looking scripted: “We wanted to make sure we got situations, so that is why – it was unscripted as far as the calls, but we scripted what the situations would be. We didn’t have calls on the call sheet, but it was move the ball here and now it is this. (We) wanted to make sure we moved the field so we got some work backed up and we got some work in the drive zone and then obviously we got some low red zone work.”
On how beneficial these practices can be for the offensive line and specifically OLCameron Erving: “I think it is great work. This is one of the best defensive fronts in the game. You could make that argument just looking at their front a year ago. It would be hard to argue with that. For our guys to go out and against them in live work – to me there is no way to have any substitute it for that.”
On signing DB Aaron Ross: “Just felt from a depth standpoint in that position with (DB Robert) Nelson still not back, (DB Pierre) Desir not being back. With (DB) Joe (Haden) being down for a couple days we wanted to make sure we were covered their depth wise. When you start to lose guys at certain positions, corner being one of them it can really effect how you practice. We wanted to make sure our bases were covered there.”
On how Ross looks after his Achilles injury last season: “I don’t think we have seen enough. I think it is too small a sample size. I didn’t get a chance to see him at all today.”
On signing LB Everette Brown: “Same thing. With (LB Barkevious) Mingo being down and we are playing (DL) Dylan Wynnout of place. I mentioned that the other day. We wanted to be able to get him work at his true position to get a true evaluation. That would be unfair to him to evaluate him at outside linebacker essentially and make a roster decision when he should playing inside. That allows us to move him back. Everette is a guy who is a professional. He has played quality reps in this league before. We will see what he can do.”
On QB Connor Shaw’s status: “I think he is scheduled for surgery I believe.”
On why it took three days for that injury to be disclosed: “I just think it was something that he didn’t think was that serious, and let it go. Then came in the next day and I think sometimes guys it is natural. Guys get dinged and they don’t want to go into the training room. They fear the worst. They are hopeful that it is just something that is sore and well go away.”
On if Shaw’s thumb is broken: “I don’t believe – it is ligament damage.”
On Buffalo fans reaction to DB Donte Whitner: “That is his history here. I wasn’t here when he was here before. I wasn’t part of him leaving. I do know this – Bills fans are very passionate, very protective of their Bills and their city, as they should be. We feel they are very similar fans bases, Cleveland and Buffalo.”
On DB Justin Gilbert’s possibility of being a punt returner: “That is on the tapes. He has proven that he can return kickoffs. I don’t know whether that was part of Chris’ plan. I am not sure how he has returners. I know we are pretty set with Trav (WRTravis Benjamin) being the lead guy and (WR Taylor) Gabriel likely will be the backup. I know that plays into your theory of getting the ball in his hands more.”
On WR Marlon Moore removing his helmet after a play: “I talked to him about it. I told him he is too good looking to risk getting hit. It is not the place or the forum to take your helmet off. It was an unfortunate thing. He was in a red jersey, which means he shouldn’t be contacted. I think linebacker it is just instincts to re-route a guy. Sometimes you are not dialed in and you see someone from the other team and you are going to hit him. He took offense to that and we all saw what happen.”
On how practice went and what it is like to be back at St. John Fisher: “I thought it went well. It is great work. You can’t replicate this anywhere else. It is great to get back here and see a lot of familiar faces and some old friends. Whether it is players or staff. I know a lot of us are feeling that way. A lot of the guys that were here in Buffalo before. (defensive coordinator) Jim. O’Neil, (defensive line coach) Anthony Weaver, (outside linebackers coach) Brian Fleury and (linebackers coach) Chuck Driesbach It is great to be back. I enjoyed the time up here before, camp wise. It is a great setting and I am glad we could get up here and get some quality work done.”
On the defense getting the edge in practice today: “Yeah that was my understanding form the other field. It was certainly on this one. Hopefully maybe the offenses we’ll rebound tomorrow. We will see.”
On the format of practice tomorrow: “It will be similar. Some of the scripted situations will be different. What we actually do -- the emphasis in those team periods and in the scale. The only difference will be the action that took place on the grass field will now be on the turf. Our defense and their offense will be on the turf and vice versa on the grass field. Just so one group is not practicing exclusively on the turf.”
On DB Tramon Williams’s performance today “That was a key signing for us to really stabilize that room, losing Buster. Anytime you can bring a veteran guy that’s proven that he can play at a high level for a long time in this league. It’s a great example for our young guys, He can certainly still play now. I think he’s a great compliment to (DB) Joe (Haden). He understands being opposite of Joe Haden he’s going to get a lot of throws his way, We understand that as a staff so we’ll do some things to help him out, to hopefully free him up that he can make some plays., I can’t say enough good things about him, he’s been the ultimate professional.”
On if he is surprised with Williams performance at age 32: “Is he really 32? (laughter) no I’m not surprised because he takes care of himself. He’s a guy that’s lasted this long and a lot if it is because of his intellect. Just to hear his conversations with Coach Hafley (secondary coach Jeff Hafley), Coach O’Neil (defensive coordinator Jim O’Neil) and the other DB’s it is detailed, high-level stuff about routes and wide-outs and things that he sees. To me that’s so good for our young guys.”
On if it his likely he will keep two QBs: “I can’t say that at this point. We’ll come up with the position minimums. Obviously, two would be the minimum and then we’ll go with- we’ll fill out the roster with the best players after that.”
On if his plans changed with QB Connor Shaw’s injury: “No, I mean… To me it’s one less to choose from. I can’t talk about roster counts or numbers at this point.”
On if he knew much about DB Tramon Williams before he arrived: “Just seen him a lot on crossover tape. He had been up for free agency previously, years ago. Evaluated him then, liked him and then went back and looked at my notes. When we watched him again this time not much had changed, still had a very positive- all the reports were very positive. We knew about him but, hadn’t gone against him that much being in the NFC.”
On if he was in New York or Baltimore at the time: “I’m not sure, I’m not sure when he would have been up. He might have been- as old as he is at 32 (laughter) it might have been two times that we ended up evaluating him in free agency.”
On how QB Josh McCown and his age have helped the team: “Very similar. Advanced level of quarterbacking knowledge. Understanding of NFL defenses, understanding of our system, what each play is designed to do. What can get us in trouble, what can get us out of trouble. Just all the little things of quarterback play that you pick up over the years. We didn’t bring him in here to coach, he can still spin it. He showed that a couple times today, the one especially on the long ball to (WR Taylor) Gabriel. He’s been- everybody that we talked to about him just raved about him as a person and a player and it was an easy decision to bring him in,”
On if he was worried about McCown’s problems in Tampa last year: “Not at all.”
On DB Justin Gilbert’s confidence: “Yeah. That’s the life of a corner. You have to have that short term memory and be able to bounce back from a play. The best corners are confident corners and that’s something that comes from having success and if he’s in a little bit of a slump it’s on him. We have to help him but he has to play his way out of it.”
On how he gets a player out of a slump: “One, you don’t overreact. You get them to stay true to their technique. When guys get in trouble it’s when their technique starts to slip. They start to do things out of structure to overcompensate. To me it’s a trust thing. Trust his own athletic ability, trust what we’re telling him and just go out and take it play-to-play.”
On if Gilbert’s attitude is good: “Yeah. He’s good in the meeting room. He understands his mistakes. He wants to learn. He wants to get better.”
Here's what Browns coach Mike Pettine is saying after practice
Opening statement: “I’m sure everybody has read the statement on (offensive line coach) Andy (Moeller). I’m not going to add to that further at this point with any details. We’re following our internal protocol, but I will say in the short term that the room will be handled by (assistant offensive line coach) George DeLeone and we’ll also move (senior offensive assistant coach) Kurt Roper in there, as well. Those two, in addition to the strong leadership in the room, we feel that there will not be a significant drop off. Ill open it up”
On trading RB Terrance West: “I think Terrance’s issues here were well documented. We felt the decision was best for us moving forward and potentially best for him.”
On if he had concerns about West’s maturity level before the draft: “I personally did not. I’m not going to go into what was in his draft file, but I personally did not.”
On if there was a final straw with West: “No, I always speak to a body of work. And then you also, especially at times when you’re making roster decisions, you’ll hit the pause button and just look at trends over time. As I said, without going into too much detail, that we feel it was best for us moving forward and feel like a fresh start would be good for him, as well.”
On an update on RB Duke Johnson Jr.’s status: “No, given that we’re in a game week, we’ll issue that injury report on Wednesday.”
On if there is a need to add another RB to the roster: “I’m not going to get into the roster stuff. We’re confident that when we get to New York that the running backs that will be out there will be sufficient.”
On adding QB Austin Davis to the 53-man roster, rather than a QB to the practice squad: “Austin (Davis) is a guy that his name has come up often. He’s played some quality minutes in this league. He does not have practice squad eligibility so the only way to get him was to put him on the 53. Also, given still the uncertainty, without going into detail, we feel good about where (QB) Johnny (Manziel) is, but it was an opportunity for us to added Austin and that was really the only way we could do it.”
On if QB Johnny Manziel was throwing throughout practice: “Yeah, he was.”
On if it is easier to step in at RB than other positions leading up to a game: “A lot of it depends on what are you doing, what’s your offense and how much are you going to ask that. Are you going to ask a guy to be an emergency backup and be a core [special] teamer? Or are you going to ask him to come in and take a role on first and second down? Or are you asking him to come in to learn pass protection? I think it’s more from what you put on that player’s plate. You could make it very easy or you could ask a lot.”
On the big picture feel of having two employees suspended and some position uncertainty: “My focus is on the New York Jets. We’re in a game week. Our goal is to go 1-0. I don’t have time to sit here and reflect on big picture. Our focus is very narrow.”
On the running game: “(RB) Isiah Crowell, I think, proved last year that he is a legitimate back in this league. We feel very good about where Duke is and our offensive line worked on a lot of things in this preseason and our tight ends. Understand when we get into game planning mode that we’re going to be able to do something schematically. Very confident in that group. I know that it’s easy to beat up the run game based on the preseason. Like I said, internally, we’re confident, and we’ll just have to wait and see.”
On if there was debate over keeping QB Thaddeus Lewis, rather than signing Davis: “I think we have a good sense of who Thad is, and like I said, Austin’s been a guy that there’s been some intrigue with that his name has come up before and the opportunity presented itself to bring him here so we took advantage of it.”
On if that intrigue in Davis went back to last year: “Yes.” On listing DB Charles Gaines on injured reserve/designated to return, when the Browns only get one such designation each year: “I think there’s risk anytime you’re involved, but when you want to be in a situation where he’s not going to be available for a long period of time, and I think Charles played well enough for us in the preseason, demonstrated that he’s going to be a part of what we do. When you looked at roster moves to ensure that you keep all the guys and don’t expose players that you want to the wire, we felt that was the best move for the organization.”
On his confidence in the offensive line’s ability to perform, given Moeller’s suspension: “Like I said, there’s strong leadership in that room. They’ll be fine.”
On WR Vince Mayle’s exclusion from the practice squad: “We talked to Vince about coming back and there was some uncertainty on his part. Right now, I’m not sure where he is with it, but I know he did have some other options.”
On if Manziel will play Sunday: “I would say that’s TBD. I can safely say that he’s on track, barring a setback.”
On keeping WR Terrelle Pryor on the roster: “It was something we’ve talked about in here at length [in the media room] that it was – I think the phrase ‘leap of faith’ was used, and I agree with that. That spot is largely because of his potential, but as the season goes on, I mean it’s sooner than later that that’s going to have to translate, that’s he’s going to have to be a productive member of this team. You walk that fine line between ‘Hey, we think this guy can do it,’ but as we all know, the NFL is a win now business and we need our players to be productive. All of that weighed into the decision.”
On if cutting Mayle as a fourth-round pick was a hard decision: “It was difficult, but at the same time, to me, it also speaks to the depth in that room that Gabe (WR Taylor Gabriel) really stepped up and had a great offseason for us, that Hawk (WR Andrew Hawkins) is who he is. To add a (WR Brian) Hartline, and to me he’s been better than what we thought we were getting when he came in. We didn’t know that (WR) Travis (Benjamin), I think, was going to bounce back the way he did and be in the discussion to be our top guy. When we signed (WR) Dwayne (Bowe), unfortunately. we didn’t get a good look at him just because of his injuries and then you’re really weighing it – you have (WR) Marlon Moore but that’s essentially a core [special] teamer first and a wide receiver second but it’s still worthy of a roster spot given how we feel we’re going to have to play this year. Given (P) Andy Lee, having him and Bade (DB Johnson Bademosi)) on the roster were two important pieces for us. When you weigh all that in, it comes down to we have our position minimums, as I’ve talked about, and then you look at that pool of players. It was a tough decision. We were hopeful to get Vince to the practice squad, and I would say there’s a possibility of that down the road.”
On what gives him confidence in the offense, considering many fantasy football owners wouldn’t draft Browns players: “Do you have a fantasy draft tonight or something? (laughter). You looking for inside info? I’m sure in the fantasy community I’m probably public enemy No. 1 – running back by committee, receiver by committee, some unknown guys. To me, we believe in the concept of team and that we have a lot of different ways to get it done. We have a lot of guys with a lot of different skillsets. Each week, I think you need to adapt your game plan. What does it call for this week? Do we need speed on the outside to help us win? Do we need our tight ends to help us win? Are we going to have to run the ball? To me, that’s what coaching is, is finding a way each week to hit the reset button. I like the diversity of skill that we have. Do we have any big names? No we don’t, but at the same time, we still feel there’s a lot of different ways to win football games and we’re confident we can get it done.”
On offensive coordinator John DeFilippo: “He’s done a nice job. He’s had to work around some of the injury stuff and some of the stuff on our checklist that we wanted to make sure we got done and got practiced. Some of the shifts and the motions that we wanted to get on tape that won’t necessarily marry up to the plays that we’re running. You have a very different plan, especially in the preseason games, that you don’t game plan for. I think Flip’s done an outstanding job to date, but it starts to count coming up so that’s the important time for him. I’m very confident in him and very confident in the staff around him as we’re currently helping him build the plan and build it around what we do well. That’s what game planning is. Where are our favorable matchups? Where are their favorable matchups? How do we win this game and how do we prevent them on defense from being successful against us? That’s all part of it.”
On keeping K Travis Coons as opposed to a more experienced kicker: “We talked about a pretty detailed list of the guys that were out there and the guys that came free, and we’re very confident in Travis based on what he’s done to date. I’m looking forward to seeing him kick for us in the regular season.”
On if he expects Pryor to be active on Sunday: “I’m not going to speak on actives, inactives.”
On potentially taking away QB snaps for more Wildcat plays: “Coming from the other side of the ball, knowing how problematic some of those things can be, I just think every good offense has some element of – anytime you can run something that’s simple for you offensively that causes stress on the other side of the ball, that will potentially cost some meeting time, some practice time, some walkthrough time. I put that in the body punch category. You’ll never know the effect that you had, but I think we always need to have those types of things. Whether it’s a diverse empty backfield package, all of the stuff that can cause issues, whether its Wildcat, some of the unbalanced line, special plays and those types of things that you have out there that causes wasted time on defense. I’ve been a part of it on the other end. You need those types of plays as changeups. Things aren’t going well with your conventional stuff, what are some things you can do to break a game open? I think a good offense has those in waiting.”
On the most improved part of the Browns: “That’s hard to say. I think on paper you’d have to say the defensive line. Just the depth there, keeping seven. I thought (DL) Billy (Winn) did a good job late once he was back healthy, earning his way onto it. Like we said, we’re going to keep position minimums and look at the best players, and he certainly was one of our top guys. We feel really good about the depth in that room. If I had to point to one group, it would likely be there.”
On keeping four TEs: “That just falls into what I just said that you have your position minimums and then you keep the best football players. The one thing about it is all four of those guys you could look are very different. (TE EJ) Bibbs is almost part fullback, part tight end. (TE Rob) Housler is almost part wide out, part tight end. (TE) Gary (Barnidge) is probably most complete of that group and (TE) Jim’s(Dray) a pretty good blocker and I think a better receiver than people give him credit for. I think that room, Flip’s well aware of the depth in that room and we’ll use it to our advantage.”
On if today was the first day Manziel threw: “I do think he threw some yesterday.”
That means I still got a shot at that consulting gig.
