DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum camp stuff 2015

Too much stuff to copy and paste it all:

'Cleveland Browns Training Camp Report: Day 3 - The Pads Go On'

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/8/1/90...-the-pads-go-on

I think that is why they went after McCown and didn't want Hoyer.

Then again, basing your qb decisions on what kind of mentor a guy can be as opposed to how he can actually play speaks volumes as to one's understanding of the position.

When Hoyer was benched for his crappy play he went crying to the press and became that locker room divider. Thats why he isnt here. Its not very complex but I won 8 games speech got him no contract offer from us.

In the same breath however, McCown is pulling the team together but I dont think he has that passion and desire to be the #1 that Hoyer did. I think he is fully content to receive his money while he sits on the pine cheering. If the starter goes down and he comes in, He will be fine. We will see his best but trotting out there on opening day just isnt his thing anymore. He isnt the lead sled dog.

That was a hell of a pass and catch from Manziel to Johnson. Thanks for the link. Johnson had his own cult following in college and think he might be developing one here lol

I don't want to turn this into a Hoyer thread, but I don't think this statement is fair or factual. He didn't "go crying to the press", he answered the questions they asked him. He never divided the locker room - the locker room was already his, due his play earlier in the season and due to Manziel's poor effort and cavalier attitude. The players, more than anyone, knew what Hoyer was up against; first with the Alex Mack injury and the resulting O-line chaos, then with the return of an ill-prepared, half-assing and entitled Josh Gordon, and finally with the undermining of Hoyer by an interfering front office.

Oh no, we're doomed

pic.twitter.com/wfEyUZjTaw

don't know how to post pictures, but here are the "winner" practice jerseys.

thoughts?

Gack!

Of the options they had available, which one would you two "realists" have chosen?

With Tramon Williams sitting out with many other veterans, Pierre Desir took the #2 CB role in 11-on-11 instead of Gilbert. Secondary coach said he "earned it".

Also, Phil Taylor was back out on the field.

I don't feel compelled to call out nonsense... because it's nonsense.

Life's too short.

If your mileage differs, have at it. Do your thang, Big Boy.

bring in a QB that has a chance of becoming a starting nfl qb. like ryan mallett. maybe draft a qb like Brett Hundley or Bryce Petty.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13364582/tony-mcdaniel-released-seattle-seahawks

Seahawks cut starting DT Tony McDaniel. Not sure he'd want to come here or that we'd pursue him, but just throwing the news out there

MKC's Twitter page, re: Pryor

MaryKayCabot · 22m22 minutes ago  Ohio, USA
#browns Pettine on pryor: "he doesn't look out of place"

*****************************

MaryKayCabot · 21m21 minutes ago  Ohio, USA
#browns wr coach joker Philips on pryor: "he's all in. He knows the system. Just have to teach him our techniques"

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@MaryKayCabot · 17m17 minutes ago  Ohio, USA
#browns joker Philips on pryor: "he's very very talented and talent wins football games"

seems to me like Pryor is a lock to make the roster ... even after a week of practice

Its also quite telling that Desir appears to be ahead of Gilbert on the depth chart as of right now (or at least the coaches are sending a warning shot to Gilbert that he's not performing again)

Our CB group is very deep right now ... Haden, T Williams, K Williams, Desir, Gaines, and Gilbert

Is it possible that we cut Gilbert? Probably not. However, does he deserve to really be on the team? Probably not.

It goes back to something Vers and I was talking about last year when I sent him some highlight links of Gilbert just after the draft. the guy wants to float and give up to much space and you just cant do that at this level. Desir did not like contact at all in college but he has really shown a willingness to learn.

Apparently Gilbert is still doing the same thing in camp and that he wants to give up to much cushion and is just getting eaten up. He has skills but he is a long way away from being a starter in this league. From the folks I have talked to Johnny is much closer to being ready to start than Gilber at this point.

He is in great shape, he is trying but he is struggling to learn this defensive philosophy.

Good points mour ... as some of you know one of my good friends plays CB for the Titans ... whenever I talk with him I'm always asking him questions, which he probably gets sick of ... but that's one thing he always says: you must be the aggressor, even if it's against Dez, Calvin, Green, etc. You cannot retreat because that's like blood in the water for a WR. The phrase he always uses is "you gotta let them know you're there" (which is probably a Titan coaching point).

It did seem to me last year that Gilbert just wasn't physical/aggressive enough before the ball was in flight

D4Life, great insight. I enjoyed reading that.

I love watching Haden play press all game. Wonder if our coaches are coaching the same thing as the Titans, but Gilbert isn't listening.

jc...

Seems like an odd lack of coverage today from camp.

was hoping to get some fan impressions posted on here.

guess no one went?

Cleveland Browns Scribbles about Justin Gilbert, Pierre Desir, Terrelle Pryor, passes to backs and other stuff -- Terry Pluto (photos)

BEREA, Ohio -- Cleveland Browns Scribbles in my notebook from Sunday's practice:

1. It was meaningful that Pierre Desir was with the starters at cornerback. The Browns have two veterans who will open season at cornerback -- Joe Haden and Tramon Williams. The coaches gave Williams a rest day. It was Desir -- not Justin Gilbert -- who was with the starters. I'm not at every practice, and I have no clue what goes on in the various meetings. But in OTAs and early in camp, Desir has played well. Gilbert has not been terrible. But it is Desir who has made a strong impression.

2. The Browns are clearly running a "non-entitlement" training camp. Just as Gilbert is with the backups and will have to play extremely well to earn time on the field, Johnny Manziel is preparing for his backup role at quarterback. You'd like to say that the two first-round picks from a year ago should be starters by now. But if they aren't ready...or if others are better...than it's destructive to force the issue.

3. Desir was the Browns fourth-round pick last season, a Ray Farmer small-school special. The Browns general manager found Desir at Lindenwood University in Missouri. It's a Division II school. Desir was given the Cliff Harris Award as the top small college defensive player in the nation in 2013. He's 6-foot-2, 206 pounds and has the physical gifts needed to play well in the NFL.

4. Coach Mike Pettine on Desir: "He's very passionate about football...very coachable...he has an NFL skill set...he has a lot of ground to make up." The last part is because Desir played at such a small school.

5. Defensive backs coach Jeff Hafley said Gilbert "has done a good job...the key is consistency." But he also added that Desir "earned" the snaps with the starters Sunday.

6. This year's first round picks -- Cameron Erving and Danny Shelton -- have been working primarily with the second string so far. This follows the coaches approach that young players have to earn their time on the field.

7. The receiver who made the best impression on this Sunday was Travis Benjamin. He caught several nice slant passes and seemed to be running the right routes. The Browns think he will be much better this season as he is now 18 months away from the ACL knee surgery. It's a small sample, but watching Benjamin fielding punts on Sunday was not encouraging. He seemed to still have trouble tracking the ball.

8. Taylor Gabriel returned punts at Abilene Christian and he has been working out in that role with the Browns. It's impressive how many Browns defenders such as Joe Haden praise Gabriel's work as a receiver.

9. Veteran punter Andy Lee has been impressive. The Browns were able to pick up Lee as San Francisco had some salary cap issues. Lee punted with the 49ers for 11 years. He holds several 49ers franchise punting records, and should be a real asset to the Browns.

10. We'll see what happens in the regular season, but the Browns are throwing a lot of passes to running backs. Last year, the Browns backs ranked dead last in pass receptions. Isaiah Crowell was the only notable back on the field. Terrance West (calf injury), Duke Johnson (hamstring) and Glenn Winston (unnamed injury) didn't take part.

11. Shaun Draughn has played a lot in camp. He is in his fifth season. He has played for Kansas City, Baltimore, Chicago, San Diego and the Browns. He has been in a total of 30 NFL games, carrying the ball 73 times for 254 yards (3.5 average). He is a special teams guy.

12. In the final drive of practice, Josh McCown took the team down field throwing mostly to tight ends Gary Barnidge and Jim Dray. The new offense seems to have more throws to the backs and tight ends. I've been waiting to see a little more from Rob Housler, the veteran free agent tight end signed in the off-season. I just haven't noticed him as much as Dray and Barnidge.

13. The Browns coaches are trying not to become too excited about Terrelle Pryor...but you can tell, they are excited. As Pettine said, "He's not looked out of place...he's ahead of where we thought he'd be."

14. Manziel had a so-so day, some good throws, some not. When he sets up in the pocket and is patient, he can make some very nice medium range throws with real zip. He still seems to struggle a bit when taking a snap under center.

15. Perhaps the most impressive pass of the day was 40-yard strike from Thad Lewis to rookie Vince Mayle. The 6-foot-2, 225-pound Mayle did a very nice job of using his size to keep the defender on his back and create space to make the catch.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2015/08/cleveland_browns_scribbles_abo_4.html

Browns training camp Day 4: Injuries pile up at running back

* Reinforcements already?: Seems like there always is one position group hit hardest by injuries at a training camp, and the early lead has been claimed by the running back group. Missing on Sunday were Terrance West (calf), Duke Johnson (hamstring) and Glenn Winston (knee). And then, early in the practice, rookie fullback/halfback Luke Lundy walked off the field with a trainer and didn’t return. That left three backs healthy – Isaiah Crowell, Shaun Draughn and rookie fullback/H-back Malcolm Johnson. Draughn, the James Wilder of this camp, is logging practice reps at a record clip. Coach Mike Pettine said he is hopeful that West and Winston, who brought an injury to camp and hasn’t passed the conditioning run, both will return after Monday’s off day, but Johnson’s absence “could be a little bit (longer).” On his visit to Browns camp on Saturday, NFL Sirius XM analyst Pat Kirwan noted a history of nagging injuries during Johnson’s career at University of Miami. Pettine said he will meet with GM Ray Farmer at each team off day (every fifth day) of camp to assess player and roster updates. “Certainly that position will be the first one discussed,” Pettine said.

* Other injuries: Pettine had an incomplete update on the status of Billy Winn, who was carted off the field on Saturday and was listed out with a knee/ankle injury. Pettine said, “X-rays were OK,” but the coach hadn’t received results of another exam Winn had on Sunday morning … Guard Vinston Painter left the field with a trainer, but there was no update on him … Pettine said players generally responded well to the first day of pads on Saturday. A few veteran players on the defensive side were given light days, including safety Donte Whitner, cornerback Tramon Williams and end Randy Starks … Defensive tackle Phil Taylor participated in team drills for the first time.

* New practice jerseys: Defensive players sported brown-and-orange camouflage jerseys for winning Pettine’s team competition the day before. They were, um, different. “The original idea was to be more of the military green camo, but when we contacted the league about it, they would prefer that we stayed within our team colors, so that’s how that became orange and brown camo,” Pettine said. When reporters joked about the look, Pettine responded, “I’ve seen how some of you in this group dress, so I don’t know if I’m going to be very open to fashion advance. You know who you are, too.” Maybe they’ll look better on the offensive players. The offense won Sunday’s competition when Josh McCown completed a touchdown pass to tight end Gary Barnidge for a touchdown with the competition on the line.

* Quick hitter: The idea of Terrelle Pryor benefitting from the expertise of the Browns’ stacked defensive backfield to help his development as a receiver is not just talk. Prior to practice, cornerback Joe Haden engaged Pryor in some valuable 1-on-1 conversation about releasing from press coverage …

Andy Lee’s punts might appear on radar at nearby Cleveland Hopkins International Airport. Goodness, he hits them high and far … One throw Johnny Manziel appears to have better command of is on the quick, inside slant routes. He zipped a few in a row on the mark in one drill … Don’t write off Travis Benjamin as a receiver or punt returner. Benjamin looks quicker and more confident in the second season removed from 2013 ACL surgery. “He surprised all of us last year (as a receiver),” Pettine said. “What’s encouraging this year is if you talk to him and ask him, ‘Hey, how do you feel compared to a year ago?’ it’s night and day, and that’s usually true with that type of injury -- that it takes to that next year to really feel back to being your old self.” … Kevin Mack and Earnest Byner – the heart and soul of the Browns’ playoff teams of the mid-1980s – visited camp. Mack is in alumni relations with the club and Byner appeared at an area event over the weekend ... Players get every fifth day off. That's why there is no practice on Monday.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&post_id=47851

update

Other injuries: Billy Winn, who was carted off the field on Saturday, was diagnosed with an ankle sprain. The club’s statement said Winn will be re-evaluated on a weekly basis, which sometimes suggests it could be the dread high ankle sprain. Which is still better than it first appeared ...

Travis Benjamin shines at Cleveland Browns training camp: Who won the day

BEREA, Ohio -- It's not unreasonable to think that Travis Benjamin came into training camp on the bubble. His days as the heir apparent as a return man took a hit in 2014. There are plenty of other small, quick guys on the roster -- though, to be fair to Benjamin, he towers over some of the other players in the receiver room with his 5-10 frame.

Just play the numbers game, though. Add Dwayne Bowe and Brian Hartline to Andrew Hawkins, plus Taylor Gabriel coming off of a strong rookie season, Vince Mayle coming in as a draft pick, plus guys like Rodney Smith and others trying to squeeze in, and, on top of that, Terrelle Pryor showing signs that maybe he can make the transition from quarterback to receiver. Someone has to get pushed out. Benjamin finds himself in with the group fighting for a spot.

Sunday, he made a case that there's still room for him.

On its surface, it wasn't a day that's going to blow you away. Camp hasn't had many highlights to speak of regardless, but it was a day where Benjamin was something that can't be overstated in a receiver: reliable.

Here were the key plays from Benjamin:

Josh McCown finds Benjamin deep.
McCown quick throw to Benjamin in front of Pierre Desir.
McCown finds Benjamin underneath.
McCown goes over the top to Benjamin for 15+ yards.
Two things of note: First, Benjamin was catching passes from McCown, meaning he spent much of his time with the first team. Second, he made a couple of deep catches but also made catches going over the middle and as a safety valve. Sometimes a guy just has to do the dirty work, even on a hot Sunday morning in early August.

It's easy to forget that Benjamin is still developing as a wide receiver. He was drafted in the fourth round in 2012 as the guy who could possibly replace Josh Cribbs. He even showed signs that he could. He caught 18 balls that year, too, including a 69-yarder against Washington.

He matched his rookie year catch total last season after catching just five passes in eight games in 2013, scoring three touchdowns (including the go-ahead score against Tennessee and the game-tying score in Game 1 against Pittsburgh) and had some observers wondering early on if maybe he could take the next step as a receiver.

Competition is never bad. So far, it's brought out the best in Benjamin. He wins Sunday

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/08/travis_benjamin_shines_at_clev.html

Cleveland Browns Training Camp Report: Day 4 - Live in Berea

The Gatorade Story: We had great end zone seats, and then, all of a sudden, a worker wheeled a Gatorade dolly/hydration unit right in front of us. The worker returned a few minutes later to the machine, and a fan behind us was yelling out loud, "why would they put that thing right in front of the view of the fans?"

I'm guessing the worker heard the fan, because he then wheeled it about 15 feet away from where it was and plopped it down. I looked over, and the thing was now wheeled in front of a media member who had a professional camera with him. His expression was, "are you kidding me?" since the guy just left it right in front of him. A few minutes later, it was wheeled over to the running backs, and that is what all four of them were enjoying in the lead photo to this article.

Camp Chatter: Every year, I try to highlight some of the camp chatter around me. I've already touched on some of it with respect to WR Terrelle Pryor, but here are a few other things I overheard:

-One fan said, "We need Bernie Kosar back on the preseason games, he was really good at analyzing things." The fans around agreed and said how his speech was probably because of how many concussions he had. "He used to line up under center with one foot already out because he was so slow and he wanted to get that extra head start."

-Some discussion was about QB Johnny Manziel: "With his height, the trajectory of his throws are going to be batted down a lot."

-There was a kid nearby, and someone was mentioning how NT Danny Shelton was the first one to come out for practice. The next thing I know, the kid just screams, "I didn't f#$%ing say Johnny Manziel was the first one out, I said SHELTON!", to which I cringed if that's how the kid always reacts to a misunderstanding.

-Much of the conversation around me was quite knowledgeable. Even when there were mistakes, they soon corrected themselves. For example, I recognized the "double team the gunner" drill as a special teams one right away, but other fans were asking, "why are they practicing double teaming wide receivers off the line?" or "why is the receiver going out of bounds?" The light bulb soon clicked.

RTA Chatter: For some non-football camp chatter, here is some fun RTA dialogue I could see/hear on my way home at one of the rapid stations. There is an older white guy who seems to be a talkative type of person, and there are about 5-6 people in the vicinity of him. He is talking to a female and was apparently asking her something several times, and she was not interested. As he persists, a younger black guy calmly interjects and says, "hey, I think she already said she wasn't interested."

The older white guy snaps with, "Why don't you mind your own f%$#ing business!?! You seem like a nice guy, just leave me alone."

The younger black guy is walking away and says, "I am leaving you alone, you're the one still talking."

The older white guy yells, "OH, so you think you're a tough BLACK GUY, eh? Why don't you come over here coldclock me so you can spend a year and a half in COUNTY PRISON!?!"

Well, this guy seems like a clear racist. Thankfully our bus arrived, and the older white guy wandered off somewhere.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/8/2/90...4-live-in-berea

there is more at the link. pics and other stuff. just put up what he was hearing from the fans.

I am not surprised that Desir is doing well. I recall from watching the combine last year that he looked really good. He has the physical skills to play the position. We called last year a redshirt, in reality he played more than he should have.

The big jump should be between year 1 and 2. Desir jump may be larger than expected.

Read the backstory on him. I doubt if he will be a problem. He has reasons to succeed.

Wasn't a fan of the fan stuff. Would have preferred more football. Particularly as the anecdotes made those fans look like real muppets.

Any DawgTalkers going to camp this year? There's usually a few posters that ask for any requests to hone in on stuff. I've enjoyed those posts over the years.

I'll be there this Thursday ... hopefully I'll post a "what I saw" thread sometime that night or on Friday

Ah awesome. Cheers dude.

I must admit....not a bad TG article this morning.

Early camp thoughts on the Browns: Manziel improving, concern about the running game, and a runaway leader for team MVP

The Morning Kickoff …

Random observations on the Browns through four training camp practices …

1. There is tangible evidence early in camp of Johnny Manziel’s improvement.

Whenever the Browns are asked about Manziel, they cite his recommitment to his job and his renewed work ethic. Owner Jimmy Haslam observed, “He is clearly engaged this year.” Haslam also said that Manziel “physically looks better … he looks like a pro athlete should.” What I notice is Manziel is throwing the ball more accurately. I checked with ESPN Cleveland “Johnny Watch” chronicler Jason Gibbs and his numbers back me up. Gibbs tediously charts all of Manziel’s passes in all drills. Through four practices, Manziel has completed 43 of 62 passes for 69 percent. A year ago at this time, Gibbs’ figures had Manziel at 42 of 75 for 56 percent. Overall in Manziel’s rookie training camp, he was 178 of 347 for 51 percent. It turned out to be a fair indicator of his seven quarters of work in the regular season. When I asked coach Mike Pettine before camp about completion figures at practice, he said they were “not insignificant.” I agree. By itself, the uptick in accuracy is no guarantee that Manziel is turning his game around. But it’s another positive sign. By the way, through four practices, Gibbs has Josh McCown at 54 of 75 for 72 percent.

2. I don’t buy the theory that the Browns’ running game automatically will be a strength just because center Alex Mack is back and backs Isaiah Crowell and Terrance West are in their second seasons.

Crowell has a real good nose for the end zone, but his ball security scares me. West looks chunky in his second season and I keep hearing he is on thin ice because of maturity issues. Rookie Duke Johnson is out with a hamstring injury and there are some who say questionable durability is the reason the Miami Hurricanes all-time rusher lasted until the third round. The Browns added two camp bodies – Timothy Flanders and Jalen Parmele -- to the running back mix on Monday. The running game is supposed to be the bread and butter of the new Browns’ offense. And I don’t like the vibe at that position group.

3. I’m much more confident about the Browns’ wide receiver group.

It is diverse and dynamic, and way more professional than the running backs, as a whole. The playmakers are going to be the under-six footers – Andrew Hawkins, Taylor Gabriel and Travis Benjamin. While the taller Dwayne Bowe and Brian Hartline don’t possess the speed at this stage of their careers to scare defenses, they are extremely important in setting the example as true professionals. This causes me to wonder why the Browns didn’t add a similar experienced player to rule the running back room.

4. If I were to name a team most valuable player right now, the runaway choice would be cornerback Joe Haden.

Aside from his obvious ascension into the elite category among NFL cornerbacks, Haden’s maturation as a team leader is invaluable. Nobody on the team works harder at every practice, and that example is infectious. Whether Haden is giving pointers to Terrelle Pryor on how to release from a jam at the line of scrimmage or tutoring the stable of young cornerbacks coach Mike Pettine has assembled, Haden has emerged at the age of 26 probably as the most important player on the team – the definition of MVP.

5. Early signs are the defense is obsessed with stopping the run.

Seemingly every running play, the defense swarms to the ball. As Pettine and defensive coordinator Jim O’Neil professed before camp, there is a round-the-clock emphasis on stopping the run that goes beyond the mere drafting of nose tackle Danny Shelton. I expect the Browns to improve significantly in this area.

6. I think the Browns should limit Cameron Erving’s reps to two positions – guard and center.

Pettine originally said that he had no problem spreading the versatile Erving across the offensive line because “he did it in college.” In the little I’ve seen of Erving, he indeed is in danger of falling into the “jack of all trades, master of none” syndrome. The coaches need to focus Erving on mastering one position as a rookie. If circumstances warrant Erving moving to another position, fine. Right now, he doesn’t look capable of unseating any of the Browns’ five starters by opening day. I know, it’s early.

7. I don’t get the fascination with the hybrid fullback/tight end role.

Rookie sixth-round pick Malcolm Johnson is cast in this role by coordinator John DeFilippo. At his introductory press conference, DeFilippo referred to H-back Marcel Reece as a “playmaker” in the Oakland Raiders offense. Reece is the model for what the Browns hope Johnson will become. For sure, Reece is an overachiever, an undrafted player who has been voted to the AFC Pro Bowl team the past three years. In that time, Reece has four receiving touchdowns and two on the ground. Playmaker? The really good offenses aren’t concerned with this hybrid position. They are loading up on seam-splitting tight ends who can catch.

8. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Terrelle Pryor struggles in the practice games.

The converted quarterback had an impressive early showing, but odds are the nuances of the new position will cause him to hit a wall as camp proceeds. The joint practices with the Buffalo Bills on Aug. 17-18 at Bills’ camp in suburban Rochester, NY, should be an interesting checkpoint on the Pryor experiment.

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=47771

Crow MUST clean up those fumble issues...

Of all our backs, IMO, he's the one that could dash up a defense and especially if the line is giving him some openings. Fumble issues could kill your career.

I agree. Good article.

Don't like what I read about the RBs, though. No running game spells big time doom for this year. Could bring the record from 5 to 6 wins to 2 to 3. And disappointed to read West is still having maturity issues. Starting to look like Johnson will be someone who can't be counted on. Ugh. What a mess. I don't know if Crowell can be a feature back. And I like Crowell.

Love Haden. The two Joes really make you feel proud to be a Browns fan.

I think #6, #7, and #8 were great insight by Tony.

I think Tony knew he had to tone it down a bit after Haslem scolded him for "irresponsible" journalism at his press conference the other day.

Anyone at camp today? I'm here.

Enjoy...and report back!

I didn't know that. Good for Haslam. Grossi is a hack.

In the last two weeks he dreamed up a power play between Farmer and Pett and had us trading Joe Thomas. His sole purpose was to whine and incite. There wasn't an ounce of truth to either. Hell, he tried to bait the Browns best player since the return, Thomas, into getting angry about his situation. What a jerk. He's a certifiable clown. Even Rizzo, who is also a bit of a clown, loves to call Grossi on his idiotic ways. I love those moments.

Offense wearing camo jerseys.