DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Camp Stuff 2015 (cont'd)

Please tell me that you're not valuing WR's moreso than CB's. Perhaps I misread your post...

I think he meant that each team is going to keep X number of Wr and X number of Cb so they are not competing against each other for roster spots.

I 100% agree w this. While Gilbert has not looked like anything resembling a #8 pick, there is no way that Bademosi outplayed him, or anyone, as a DB. If there is an ST ace in camp that can also play on the field for short stretches, Bademosi can be in trouble as far as a roster spot goes. That's the danger of an ST guy being a one trick pony ... if he is one, he needs to be head and shoulders beyond anyone else in camp at it.

IIRC... Bademosi had one passed defensed in the past game... it hit him on the back of his shoulder while he was trailing the WR... that was his highlight play.

No way Bademosi is better than Gilbert, that said Gilbert is panning out to be a very bad pick

Nope, I said that I would personally cut him and take the roster hit. Like I said above he'll probably make the team.


Yes they will value CB over WR or some other position if they keep an extra corner because of Gilbert's contract.

Saying Bademosi outplayed Gilbert isn't saying that he is that great at corner, just better than Gilbert.

Listen guys, I know Gilbert has great athletic ability. I was extremely happy when we drafted him. I just don't think he has the heart to be an NFL player. Some guys feel that when they get that first paycheck that they have done all they need to do. He pissed away his first season and supposedly caved and said he'd actually try this year. When asked if his goal is to start this year, he says "We'll see what happens." What player doesn't want to start? He admits that he doesn't watch enough tape and it shows on the field.

My biggest problem with a guy like Gilbert is that laziness is contagious. Guys that slack off tend to party together. So you keep him because of raw talent and a big contract and you have 3 more guys just like him next year. It's all a moot point because we'll keep him. It's what NFL teams do.

Jester;
Tackles is total tackles, sacks, tackle for loss or made 25 yards down field all count the same.

I think we will see at least one of them traded fairly soon. At least I hope so.

Total tackles always includes all categories of tackles. (including for loss and sacks)

So, if Winn has a game where he has 3 total tackles, 2 assists, 1 tackle for a loss, and 1 sack, then he has the following:

2 half tackles, with split credit for the tackle with another player.
1 solo tackle for a loss
1 solo tackle resulting in a sack.

Hope that helps.

I agree [mostly] with everything else you said.

The above statement is so far from the truth that makes me question whether you watched the games. I think your personal hatred for Gilbert is clouding your judgment. Or you are Bademosi's mom.

Yeah, Bademosi has been awful on D, and hasn't made an impact on special teams yet in the games or scrimmage. I hate to say it, because I've like the guy, but if it comes down to Moore or Bademosi, there's not question who I take there.

Bademosi plays like people think Gilbert plays.

I don't see that as much a contagious problem here with this particular staff. Pretty clear cut you slack, don't produce, lack of effort and etc - you don't play on Sunday and you ride the low end of the depth chart. I believe there are many examples to support that.

Now, if you're a player who doesn't care if they play or not, then that's another issues all together and I wish you'd get the *F* outta Cleveland if so.

Yeah, I really don't understand how people can say Gilbert is getting a pass from this coaching staff. The guy is buried on the depth chart. True, he probably would've been cut if he didn't have so much potential, but that's the name of the game. Who was that one WR we had that was a physical freak, but never even sniffed the field? That guy collected his paychecks on potential alone for how many years?

Referring to Travis Wilson?

Okay, maybe I saw 2 different games with Bademosi than everyone else but this is what I saw.

Washington

CB Johnson Bademosi 41 62% 3 tackles (3 combined).
CB Justin Gilbert 37 56% 1 tackle (1 combined).

Bademosi looked fine in the running game although he did get sucked in on one running play. He recovered the fumbled punt on Special teams.I did not see him thrown on during the game.

Gilbert was the goat of the game. He gave up the 22 yard TD to Ryan Grant along the sideline and Garcon toasted him for what should have been an easy TD. I did see a semi decent coverage on Garcon once, but he was not credited with any passes defensed. He avoided the running game like the plague, but did manage a tackle.

Gilbert did not play in the Buffalo game, but Captain Flawless was getting toasted regularly in practice that week.

Bademosi got 3 tackles on 33 snaps. His one pass defensed was the endzone play where his back was turned, but he was close enough to get a hand in. He had a hands to the face penalty that wiped out A Bryant's sack. Nothing special on ST in Buffalo.

So yes Bademosi has not been great, but better than I have seen from Gilbert. If you throw in the game where Bademosi played corner and played halfway decent against Dez Bryant, I think he is head and shoulders above Gilbert at this point.

It is not hard at all to outplay someone that hasn't done anything good.

I'm giving Gilbert the same amount of rope I gave Manziel the start of this season. They both said they were gonna put in the effort to get better in the off-season. It's clear that one of those guys did so far and it's not Gilbert.

I think Bademosi has looked plain awful this preseason so far.

What's odd is I remember him guarding Dez Bryant back in 2012 against Dallas and actually doing a damn fine job. Looks like that was just a fluke.

No one is saying Gilbert has played well. It is just absurd to say that Bademosi has been better. He has been the worst player on the field when he plays on defense.

LOL, If you switched the names, that would have been my point. I haven't seen a pass play where Bademosi got flat out owned. The closest thing was that end-zone play in the Buffalo game.

What games have you been watching? Pretty much every pass Bademosi has been targeted on he has been owned.

I am assuming the percentage you posted was the percentage of passes completed against Bademosi. If so, 63% is tremendously horrendous. Gilbert's percentage was 56%. To put that in context, when people are passing to Bademosi's man they are completing passes at as good of/better rate than Andrew Luck (63%), Russell Wilson (63%), and Eli Manning (63%) completed last year. The only QBs last year to complete 56% of their passes or less last year? McCown (56%), Hoyer (55%), and Stanton (55%).

Of course this is a very small sample, so maybe over a larger period of time these numbers would even out (although I doubt they would given what I have seen).

He was in on 62% of the defensive snaps. Where did you see all these passes against him? Are you talking about practice?

There was a lack of clarity in your post. I thought that that was the completion percentage of throws to players he was covering (to be honest I thought it was a little low).

Ah, now this is going to bug me. He was a big, fast WR we either signed as a UDFA, or drafted him in a late round, and he lived on the bottom of our WR depth chart for a couple years (more than one regime). There would be the yearly article before the start of training camp that would say the time had come for his breakout season. I believe he bought his own JUGS machine to learn how to catch.

Paul Hubbard?

Carlton Mitchell?

5 quick-hitters from Wednesday’s Browns practice

Link

1) John Greco holding serve at right guard

The most anticipated training camp position battle never really surfaced.

Greco has taken nearly every first-team snap at right guard, while Cleveland’s first-round pick, Cameron Erving, was instead given a crash course on positions all across the offensive line, mostly with the second-team offensive line. The decision shows how favorably the coaching staff views the 30-year-old Greco, but that doesn’t mean the veteran is going to relax.

“You can’t let up because it’s a long season and if I don’t perform, they are going to put the best five out there,” Greco said. “I’ve had the mindset approach each day as it’s my job to lose.”

Second-year guard Joel Bitonio has been working closely with Erving behind the scenes – and the pair have become good friends. Bitonio instructed the rookie what type of coffee and sunflower seeds the offensive line room likes. But he’s also encouraged Erving to not get down about not cracking the starting lineup of one the league’s premier units.

“The sixth man on the O-Line has to be ready to play at any second,” Bitonio said. “One guy goes down, you’re in. I think (Erving) understands that. We’ve talked. He knows we have a good O-Line. He knows it takes work to start, and he appreciates that. He’ll be ready to come in if any position goes down.”

2) Browns use scout team for the first time in 2015

After barely discussing the Redskins and Bills in their weekly team meetings, the Browns are preparing for the Buccaneers like they would a regular season opponent. During practice, the scout team offense and defense ran basic plays out of Tampa Bay’s playbook. The game planning is solid practice for the regular season.

The nine-minute opening drive from Buffalo’s offense in the second preseason game didn’t exactly please coach Mike Pettine. The Browns’ offense will be under attentive eyes against Tampa Bay, but the Cleveland coaches want to see the backbone of their team return to top form, too.

“(Let’s) go out and be us,” Pettine said about the defense. “Passionate. Competitive. Tough. Make plays. Football is about being productive and making plays.


3) Joe Haden, key injured players return to practice

When Joe Haden (hamstring) trotted out to the practice field with pads on, Pettine couldn’t help but smile. Two weeks without your top defensive player can cause any defense some uneasiness, but the Pro Bowler was lively on the practice field and should return to the starting lineup against the Buccaneers.

Joining Haden back on the field were safety Tashaun Gipson (calf) and wide receiver Terrelle Pryor (hamstring). Cornerbacks Justin Gilbert (hip), K’Waun Williams (abdominal) Robert Nelson (hamstring), offensive lineman Michael Bowie (shoulder), safety Jordan Poyer (concussion) and defensive lineman Ishmaa’ily Kitchen (groin) watched from the sidelines.


4) Joel Bitonio bonds with Josh McCown over age gap

Josh McCown is 36 years old. Bitonio is 23. When Cleveland’s left guard was getting on the school bus for his first day of fourth grade, Josh McCown was preparing for a preseason game as a member of the Arizona Cardinals.

“He has a daughter that’s 17 – I’m 23! That’s close in age,” Bitonio joked.

Ribbing aside, Bitonio says McCown has changed the dynamic of the Browns’ offensive line. Last season, center Alex Mack made most of the protection calls at the line of scrimmage before the ball was hiked. This season? McCown has shown he’s capable of offering a different perspective and is sharing those duties more with Mack to make sure blitzers don’t run free.

“Anything you can think of as a football player scenario wise, I’m pretty sure he’s been a part of,” Bitonio said. “Honestly it’s an honor to play with him. I’ve enjoyed it. I love that he’s our quarterback.”

5) Other news and notes


Because of the fascination with Pryor, and the surprise performances from reserves Josh Lenz, Darius Jennings and Shane Wynn, fourth-round pick Vince Mayle has flown under the radar during training camp. Mayle’s made some big catches in camp, but he’s also had some drops and some typical rookie up-and-downs.
“We knew it was going to be a steep learning curve from him just coming from the system he played in at Washington State to come into a NFL system,” Pettine said. “West Coast, lot of heavy verbiage, more nuances to their routes. That’s difficult for any wide receiver coming from that spread type background to step into immediately.”
Thaddeus Lewis, who will see significant snaps on Saturday if Johnny Manziel is indeed ruled out, sees offensive coordinator John DeFilippo’s offense as quarterback-friendly.
“It’s similar to the West Coast, been in the West Coast before but at the same time it has a lot of dynamics where you can get the ball down the field to some of the fast guys you have and that’s what you like about it,” Lewis said. “Opportunity to get the ball in the playmakers hands and allow them to make plays for you.”

Adam Caplan ‏ @ caplannfl 2m 2 minutes ago

Former # Dolphins QB Pat Devlin will be working out for the # Browns tomorrow, source said. Was most recently with # Bears.


Pat Devlin, come on down

I am sure the price is right.

Pat Devlin?

And just when I thought this season couldn't be less exciting.

Just wait til they cut him and try to sign Ken Dorsey


(I hope I'm joking)

Have they cut Shaw yet?

I hate when motorcycles drive past my house when I'm trying to post.

Nate Ulrich @NateUlrichABJ
#Browns DL Phil Taylor joins guys on bikes. Others are Gilbert, Nelson, K'Waun Williams, Bowie and Kitchen.

wonder what the deal is with Phil Taylor?

for some reason i thought he has been practicing. i guess not?