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'McCoy, Cousins continue to out-play RG3'

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...partner=ya5nbcs

Posted by Michael David Smith on August 21, 2015, 3:43 PM EDT

If Washington’s quarterback depth chart were determined by on-field performance, Robert Griffin III would be firmly entrenched at third string.

Although coach Jay Gruden insisted after Thursday’s preseason game against the Lions that Griffin will remain the starter, that game showed once again what we’ve seen throughout Gruden’s tenure as Washington’s coach: Colt McCoy and Kirk Cousins are simply playing better football than Griffin.

So far this preseason, McCoy has a 131.6 passer rating and has led Washington’s offense on three touchdown drives. Cousins has a 118.3 passer rating and has also led Washington’s offense on three touchdown drives. Griffin has a 54.6 passer rating, and Washington has yet to score a touchdown with Griffin on the field.

You can argue that the preseason is too small a sample size to draw any conclusions, and that Griffin is playing against better defensive players than Cousins and McCoy are. But Griffin’s sub-par performance goes beyond just this year’s preseason. Last year Griffin started seven games, Cousins started five and McCoy started four. Washington wasn’t a particularly good team no matter who was starting, but according to ESPN’s QBR system, which combines both statistics and film study into one number on a 0-100 scale, Griffin was easily the worst of the three. McCoy had a 46.9 QBR, Cousins had a 46.5 QBR and Griffin had a 33.5 QBR. The Football Outsiders DVOA system, which uses play-by-play data to assess quarterbacks, similarly had Griffin as by far the worst of Washington’s three quarterbacks.

Given all that, it’s surprising that Gruden is so adamant that Griffin will continue to start. Perhaps Gruden is still intrigued by the great promise Griffin showed in his rookie season. Perhaps Dan Snyder has told Gruden to give Griffin a chance. Perhaps Gruden just doesn’t think McCoy and Cousins are legitimate NFL starters.

But at some point, on-field results have to matter. And Griffin simply isn’t getting results.



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RG3: One year wonder, and that's it?

-I wonder!

I think Griffin needs to get out of Washington, get traded to a team with an experienced and skilled veteran QB where he can wear a ballcap and carry a clipboard for a while and re-learn everything he thought he knew about playing QB. I still think he has the skills and smarts to be a 2nd tier type NFL QB, but he needs some solid guidance and the adaptability to change his approach.

I always really liked McCoy, but I think it's hard for him to throw long. Definitely not the strongest of arms.

Shaw reminds me of McCoy.

if only colt had a rifle for an arm and not a pop-gun.

Exactly. He has the intelligence, the drive, and the mobility ... but literally the worst arm in the league

'Noodle arm'

I'd still take McCoy or Cousins over our QBs. Colt's arm isn't great, but its at least average.

It is not average. It is well below-average.

I know Connor Shaw is hurt, but technically he is still in the league.

who knows maybe mccoy has learned how to get rid of the ball faster instead of locking onto a receiver and holding the ball forever. I really liked him when we drafted him but he was always a QB that was going to need time to be ready to play at the NFL level. unfortunately he got drafted by the Browns and played better than the sewage we like to parade through and call them QBs. He then proceeded to get pummeled to death for us and got ptsd in my humble opinion. Perhaps he has not had time to recover from it. I wish him the best because he is a good kid.

I was mistaken. I thought I remembered one of the draft guru's - could have sworn it was Gil Brandt that said his arm was average-to-slightly better than average - but I checked back through some 2010 scouting reports and both Brandt and Mayock, along with others said his arm was below average. That said, I don't think arm strength is Colt's biggest weakness, at least not when he was here. He had accuracy issues and pocket awareness problems that caused him to check down too much. He also got beat up pretty bad and got the happy feet.

I disagree w/this take. I think RGIII has these things working against him:

--he is self-centered

--he has acted like a prima donna.

--he throws his coaches under the bus.

--he can't read coverages

--he can't read defenses

--he has poor pocket presence

--he is fragile

--his teammates don't like him

I think the guy is a jerk who bought into his own hype and hasn't done the film study to elevate his game.

so basically an overhyped geno smith.

I don't view those guys the same.

i do based off what you just listed.

both QB's tanking sooo hard, and they have the same qualities(or lack thereof). no surprise they aren't making it.

One was the second pick in the draft w/talk of being better than Luck. He also won the Heisman. The other was chosen in the second round. One received a ton of hype, the other a ton of criticism.

I don't think you close the book on either one of them, but I don't think Gino has been put in as good of a situation as RGIII has. RGIII had the Shannahans. He has Gruden now. Smith has had .......nothing.

Do you consider Jay like his brother Jon ? does he got that QB ...uhmm help me out here.. not ability.. but experience ? to get the most of a player like rg3

He did pretty darn good in Cinci. I just think it's hard to coach a guy who can't read defenses and coverages and who has terrible discipline in regards to footwork.

That's the kind of stuff that seems to be the hard habits to change or coach up on a player... I find it ironic that most physiologists consider a boy becoming a man at the age of 18..

And by then he's suppose to learn how to be sexually mature and be able to handle a women and a football team at the same time..

Thank goodness I played Defense

Did you mean "Geno Smith"

And yet, he still shines.. Amazing isn't it

I wouldn't say he "shines", Daman. He's a solid backup who has managed to stay in the league in spite of his weak arm. I am giving colt credit for that.

I meant shines by comparison to RGIII and somewhat to Cousins.

Alright then.

I read your post and I don't really see where we are at odds in our opinions all that much. I think I stressed that he needed to change his approach. I recall you saying in another thread that reading coverages was a QB skill that can't really be taught, but he certainly had a nice run in his rookie year before the knee injury. He looked like the real deal back then. He'll never have 4.4 speed again, but I think that with a fresh start in the right situation his size, still above average mobility, great throwing arm, and smarts could bring him back from zero-to-viable starter. He needs to grow up and see where he's responsible for his own failures, too. That should come with maturity.

It is kind of funny.. RGIII was supposed to be so mature coming into the league, a real likable and coachable kid, a real hard worker.... turns out that much of that proved to not be true...

Now we have Jameis Winston coming into the league, supposed to be very immature, uncoachable, cocky, brash, questionable work ethic, not the highest of football IQs... and I just have a feeling he is going to prove that he's not that guy...

Drafting QB's in the first round is almost always a crap shoot. Some you win..most you lose.

Winston is thought to have one of the highest football IQs since Manning. At least that's what Mariucci and several reporters at the combine said.

Not ripping on you DC, because I understand what your intent was, but yeah, Winston is said to be really smart in regards to understanding offenses. He picks things up very quickly. He amazed a couple of guys who grilled him on plays, defenses, reads, etc.

A solid O line makes a big difference as well.

It does. But colt doesn't have the gun he needs to be a bonfide starter. He has other positive traits that has kept him in the NFL - smarts, attitude - and that isn't a knock on him either.

'No. 2 QB could be vital for the Redskins; who will it be?'

http://realredskins.com/2015/08/24/no-2-qb-could-be-vital-for-the-redskins-who-will-it-be/#comments

Rich Tandler Aug 24, 2015, 10:59 AM EDT

It is becoming apparent that the No. 2 quarterback in Washington will have a good shot at becoming No. 1 at some point during the season.

It’s not too much of a stretch to concoct a doom and gloom scenario for Robert Griffin III. Watching him on Thursday against the Lions and throughout his career since 2013, it seems almost inevitable that his season will be interrupted by either injury or ineffectiveness. That means that the winner of the competition for the No. 2 quarterback job is likely to start some regular season games and perhaps sooner rather than later.

So who is the leader in that competition between Kirk Cousins and Colt McCoy? Jay Gruden said during training camp that performance in preseason games would be the primary determining factor. If there is a leader in the battle, Gruden has not tipped his hand to reveal which one it is.

Throughout OTAs, minicamp and training camp Cousins and McCoy have split the work with the second and third teams about as evenly as you can. One day Cousins would work with the second team offense and McCoy would work with the third. The next day at practice it would be McCoy with twos and Cousins with the threes.

“They’re doing extremely well,” said Gruden of the play of the two backups during the preseason.

The numbers bear out that assessment. Cousins has completed 77 percent of his passes averaging 9.4 yards per attempt while McCoy is completing passes at a 75 percent clip and also averaging 9.4 yards per pass.

Both have been behind center for seven drives. Cousins has had better results, with the team scoring three touchdowns and a field goal with him in the game while McCoy’s possessions have resulted in two touchdowns.

Neither quarterback has thrown an interception. Cousins was sacked once for eight yards and McCoy lost a fumble at the goal line in the closing seconds of the first half.

In terms of passing attempts, Cousins has thrown 26 times, which is a small sample size. McCoy has 12 attempts, an extremely small sample size. That’s one problem with comparing the performances of the two quarterbacks. The other problem is that both have played against players who will be backups when the season starts or will be unemployed in September.

If we assume that such factors even out, the numbers and results seem to give Cousins an edge. But it is important to remember that Gruden benched Cousins last year in favor of McCoy and, when Griffin struggled after returning from an injury Gruden turned to McCoy. That is likely to factor in to the decision.

Gruden hasn’t said when he will announce who the backup is. He might like to wait until he submits the inactive list for the season opener on September 13. But if Griffin’s performance continues to falter Gruden might have to accelerate his timetable.

A couple of nice hard hits at the link below:

'An NFL coach says he has never seen anything like what the Redskins did with Robert Griffin III in a preseason game'

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/nfl-coach-says-never-seen-162939718.html

Business Insider By Emmett Knowlton
5 hours ago

In a preseason game last week, Washington Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III was repeatedly hit by Detroit Lions defenders until finally he had to leave the game with a concussion.
Because preseason games are meaningless and Griffin's short NFL career has been marred by injury, many wondered why head coach Jay Gruden didn't pull his quarterback to keep him out of harm's way.

Most starting quarterbacks play only a few possessions per game during preseason. If there's even the slightest possibility that a quarterback is hurt, coaches will usually put in a backup rather than let the starter play through it.

And why wouldn't they? It's preseason! On Sunday, Marcus Mariota took one hit against the Rams, and the Titans pulled him instantly. So why didn't Gruden do the same?

In a column on Bleacher Report, NFL reporter Mike Freeman shared comments from an anonymous NFL head coach who suggested Gruden's decision to keep Griffin in the game was "personal."

"I have never, ever, on any level, seen a head coach treat his quarterback with such a lack of respect," the coach said.

The coach told Freeman:

What is baffling is that I can't think of a single head coach in the NFL who would take an injury-prone quarterback, put him behind a very shaky offensive line, in a preseason game, watch him take those kinds of hits and leave him in the game. It looks personal to me.

This isn't exactly the sort of press you want before week one, but for the Redskins it's par for the course. Since Gruden took over as head coach before the start of the 2014 season, his tumultuous relationship with Griffin has been extremely public.

On the one hand, Gruden has very openly bashed his quarterback's ability.

"Robert had some fundamental flaws," Gruden told NFL.com's Dan Hanzus after the Redskins fell to 3-7 following a home loss to Tampa Bay last year. He continued:

His footwork was below average. He took three-step drops when he should have taken five. He took a one-step drop when he should have taken three on a couple occasions and that can't happen. He stepped up when he didn't have to step up, and he stepped into pressure. He read the wrong side of the field a couple times.

Griffin, to be fair, hasn't exactly been a passive bystander through all this. He has sparked controversy after losses by saying he can't win games all by himself, which many interpreted as him throwing his teammates and coaches under the bus.

During this year's training camp Griffin told reporters he thought he was the best quarterback in the NFL. When this quote blew up, he quickly blamed the media for taking his words out of context and using them for headlines and clicks.

Still, as Freeman notes, it's rare to hear coaches criticize their quarterbacks as openly as Gruden has. It's even rarer for an injury-prone quarterback to stay in a preseason game when his line can't protect him.

Already this off-season we have seen a player blow his finger off with fireworks and another get his jaw broken over $600, and Deflategate has now dragged on for longer than an entire NFL season. It's hard to be the most dysfunctional franchise in the NFL, and yet, Gruden and the Redskins are making a very strong case for first place.



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If their secret goal is to get RGIII hurt so they can move on from him, then I don't see any effort really needed on their behalf. RGIII will do that himself, and early too.

Gruden is being forced to play the owner's choice. He wants him to play then here he is in all his glory. What happened when he came out?

Excuse me, but the Shannahans were widely criticized for their "treatment" of poor, poor, RGIII. Freaking gag me.

This is precisely why I detest RGIII. He is a coach killer. And I said that anonymously.

Everyone is to blame in this situation. RGIII needs to act more professionally and learn to protect himself on the field, Snyder needs to let his coach play who he wants, Mike and Kyle ran RGIII into the ground, and Gruden needs to keep his mouth shut.

Yeah, there's a lot going on and many players in that drama.

As a former coach.........I know certain players are "coach killers."

Timid was one. Farve in his latter years was another. Bernie was too at the end. RGIII is the biggest one I've seen in a long, long time.