DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Camp Stuff 2015 (cont'd)

Pure slot receivers, who are good, are very valuable. Last year Andrew Hawkins was very good. If we had a competent QB Hawkins would be Welker level valuable.

Nate Ulrich ‏@NateUlrichABJ 16m16 minutes ago
#Browns back at practice: Mingo, Gilbert, Nelson, Poyer, K'Waun Williams, Kitchen

Niceeeeeee!

So who does this leave as far as players injured outside of Duke and Desir? Pretty much back with having the full boat, no?

Gaines hurt his hamstring. Other than the two you mentioned (and Manziel) I think everyone is practicing. Not bad.

I say F- it and cut Bowe to make the spot for Lenz. Heck, I think if Pryor makes the final roster; I think he will outplay the veteran Bowe! The guy has loser and waste written all over him. Wouldn't be the first time we cut a "big" FA signee.

Guys was CB Nelson the corner our coaches raved about last year prior to getting hurt...them KWilliams came out of nowhere and shined often during our season

I've never seen such a strong hate for a player who has yet to play a meaningful game for the Browns.

5 Browns observations from Monday’s practice

Link

Jamie Meder the No. 1 ranked DL in the NFL this preseason
On the last day of August, the Browns hit the field in Berea for a jog-through practice session. Because of the light tempo, many players were able to return from injuries.

Here’s what we saw.

1) DL Jamie Meder’s momentum growing

It may be the preseason, but Pro Football Focus ranks Meder as the No. 1 rated defensive lineman in the entire NFL. Working with mostly backups in the second halves of games, Meder has logged 49 snaps, producing seven tackles, a sack and has blown up a countless number of running lanes.

“I think (defensive coordinator Jim) O’Neil said it the other day that if you had to vote for a most improved, that Jamie would certainly be in the discussion,” coach Mike Pettine said.

We’ve written about Phil Taylor’s return to the field, Danny Shelton and Xavier Cooper’s superior play, Randy Starks’ needed veteran presence and undrafted rookie Dylan Wynn’s emergence. The shot clock is quickly approaching zero, and the Browns will have some big decisions on the horizon.

“We are just going to see how it all plays out,” Pettine said. “As we all know that is a room where we have tremendous depth.”

“I just want to do anything to help the team win,” Meder said Saturday.

2) Injury update

Who returned to practice: Justin Gilbert (hip), K’Waun Williams (abdominal), Robert Nelson (hamstring), Jordan Poyer (concussion), Terrelle Pryor (hamstring), Shaun Draughn (thumb), Ishmaa’ily Kitchen and Barkevious Mingo (knee). Senior writer Andrew Gribble will have a detailed piece on Mingo’s return.

Who did not: Duke Johnson Jr., (concussion), Pierre Desir (concussion), Nate Orchard (back) and Johnny Manziel (elbow) did not resume throwing the ball.

On Tuesday, the Browns will ramp up practice to full speed and will wear pads. Pettine and the coaching staff will hold meetings to determine which starters will rest against the Bears on Thursday.

3) Thad Lewis prepared to put 'best foot forward' in start vs. Chicago

As the calendar flips months to September, noises out of the Browns locker room are a little softer. Dozens of players share a tense feeling. Some will see their stay in Cleveland come to an end.

“You know how this league is,” quarterback Thad Lewis said. “Either you’re going to be here or you’re not.”

Lewis is one of those players. Earlier in August, he was splitting third-team repetitions with Connor Shaw. On Thursday, he’ll start against Chicago. The Browns are hopeful Manziel can return soon, but it’s unclear when he’ll resume throwing.

“I just have to roll with the punches and take every opportunity that I’m given,” Lewis said.

Pettine also confirmed newly-signed quarterback Pat Devlin had 10-12 plays memorized in case he was needed in an emergency situation last week against Tampa Bay. The Delaware alum has picked up the offense pretty quickly and will take the field Thursday against the Bears.

4) Extra defensive line depth aiding Desmond Bryant in new ways

Multi-sack games are nothing new for Bryant. In last season’s vintage defensive performance in Cincinnati, Bryant swarmed quarterback Andy Dalton for two quarterback takedowns.

But with a rash of injuries late in the year, Cleveland was forced to scheme up Bryant more as a run-stopper as opposed to letting him loose as a pass rusher.

This season, the scripts have flipped.

“We need to get him in (pass-rushing) situations,” Pettine said. “I think our additional depth will help that. We can put him in situations where it is more likely to be pass than it is run. He has proven to us that he is more than capable of playing every down. We are very pleased with where Des is.”

“We want to let the league know the Browns are for real this year,” Bryant told ClevelandBrowns.com after Saturday’s game.

5) Other news and notes

-Some members of the Dawg Pound expressed surprise on social media when wide receiver Shane Wynn was waived Monday. The undrafted rookie caught a touchdown pass from Manziel against the Bills and had an exhilarating punt return. Pettine did not rule out the team bringing back the Cleveland native if the circumstances presented themselves.

-“I think Shane got caught up in the numbers a little bit,” Pettine said. “We loved having Shane here. We loved his attitude. He was productive for us.”

-Another game in the books for the Browns resulted in no missed field goals or extra points. Young kickers Carey Spear and Travis Coons remain in a dead heat for the opportunity to suit up for the team. Pettine was rather adamant that Spear and Coons have looked just as solid as veterans around the league so far in the preseason.

- “It is no different – they have to put the ball through the uprights,” Pettine said. “I have seen rookie kickers come in this league and be very successful. I am not that concerned about that. I think the competition has really been great for both of them.”

I kind of agree with you. Bowe has had a nice career, but he isn't showing much at this point, though I am sure that if we keep him he will have maybe 50 catches and gain maybe 600 yards or so with his share of TDs. It's the safe pick. I am just not sure I want the safe pick when the numbers he will probably put up will be the same as any number of free agent receivers we might be able to pick up. The upside in the short term for Bowe is he does bring size. I am not against small receivers by any means, but a QB does like that big guy for jump balls in the endzone. When all is starting to fall apart, just toss it up to the big guy and hope he can catch it or break it up.

Bowe is 30 it's not like he's 34. We have him until he is 32 and when he should be at the top of his craft.

would have kept austin myself.

Ideally you are correct, but based on his production last season that doesn't bode well. I'd like to hope he'll be around for a productive 3 years, but I already kinda wish we could cut him haha.

Obviously he's got some time here to knock the rust off though

jc ...

I'm amazed at how short-sighted people are. Let's cut guys that are hurt because they "aren't doing anything right this instant" in favor of someone who can get out on the practice field ... never mind who the better player is. I just can't believe how dumb people are.

Was listening to the RBS this morning. Why I continue to do this is a mystery. I used to defend Rizzo, but my goodness is that guy a doofus. During the ten minutes they actually talk about sports (and I'm usually not lucky enough to catch those ten minutes on my ride into work), it is clear that Rizzo's new favorite whipping boy is Manziel. He wants to cut Manziel in favor of Lewis because Lewis is available to play. Never mind who the better player is. I mean are people purposely being dumb for effect? Or is this really what's become of our microwave society?

It was so funny listening to Rizzo, his sidekick Casey who never disagrees with him, and Cherry go off on Manziel. I can tell Cherry thinks Rizzo is a moron, but for job security he plays along. Matt Fontana, one of the producers, is the only one that will stand up to Rizzo and comes short of calling him an idiot. I'm sure he doesn't want to get fired either.

Rizzo is the same guy who, if Manziel were to be cut and go on and star with another team, would be all over Farmer for doing so. When called on his idiocy, he would claim that's what Farmer gets paid to do.

I really don't think the city of Cleveland deserves a championship. I don't. The idiot fans and media are too dumb to deserve one. I'm sorry. The years of losing has caused an infection that lives in people's brains in that city.

I'll admit I was skeptical on Bowe...but he really did get open in that game against Tampa for what it's worth. I can't say for sure whether or not he'll be great this year, but I think he'll be better than a lot are making him out to be right now.

But he's not doing anything RIGHT NOW! How on earth can he be any good?

WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?

It scares some to death that Johnny got himself clean off the field and has shown tremendous improvement on the field. They like reporting that the Browns are 91% done with Manziel.

He was playing in a run first offense. They didn't throw a TD all year to a WR... it's not like they threw 50 of them and he didn't catch one.

the QB literally did not throw one to a WR.

Yeah, when we first signed Bowe I said something like "he'll be our Miles Austin but will get more reps and be less likely to get hurt"...

Ya, should've just kept my trap shut. Thus far, and it's early still I'll admit, not impressed.

It's maddening Mourg the way the fans of this team and the media (who are also fans of this team) act. It's sickening actually.

This is the second time you have said this about a player. What NFL peaks at ages 30-32? That makes no sense.

What if you didn't think Bowe was any good in the first place?

Enough said.

If you substitute the word "media" for the phrase "professional $#!% stirrers" it all makes perfect sense.

Without controversy, there is no "news".

I would probably reverse that.

For every fan there are 10 great idiots that deserve a championship?

They win a championship for the fans for the same reason actors at a play perform at the best of their ability, we are paying to watch them. If it wasn't for the fans there would be no football. We pay to go to the game, we pay for merchandise, we pay $10 for a $2.00 beer, $6 for a 0.30 hot dog, and so on

While we don't always agree, we certainly do this time. Bowe has been a very productive WR in the NFL. What people keep forgetting to mention, is that NO Kansas City WR caught a TD pass last year!

Smith hardly ever throws long and when they are close, they have Jamal Charles run the ball. NONE of their WR's caught a TD pass, but that's on Bowe?

Silly Fanbits, Trix are for kids!

Mike Pettine Press Conference - Sept. 1

Link

The Browns head coach talks with reporters after Tuesday's practice

On terminating Phil Taylor’s contract:

“Just given the depth that we had in that room, we knew we were going to have to make some difficult choices. I think you can group Kitch (DL Ishmaa’ily Kitchen) in along with Phil. When we were wherever Phil was and kind of in his state of rehab, he was well on his way to being back but just given the current circumstances of us needing to trim the roster down and where he was and how we felt about the room, we just felt it was the right decision for all involved.”

On the Browns paying Taylor guaranteed money factoring into the decision:

“It’s something that we’re obviously very well aware of, but did not factor that in. When we talk about the roster, the contractual stuff to me is a secondary thing. You want to say with the 75 we want to move and then to the 53, I don’t think it’s very prudent to let the contractual stuff, especially given where we are financially. I don’t think you want that to be a factor in it.”

On DL Jamie Meder playing inside or end:

“We cross-train our guys to play all those spots. I think Pete’s (vice president of communications Peter John-Baptiste) the one that put him as an end (laughter). He lets me know, ‘Oh, by the way, we put a depth chart out.’ I don’t even know other than just looking at the names, as far as guys, where they are. We might even list guys as left end and right end so I’ll direct that question to Pete.”

On keeping K Travis Coons over K Carey Spear:

“Yeah, it was close. I thought both those guys handled themselves very well, very professionally. Carey did a really good job and I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t get a look elsewhere. There will be some interest in him, but Travis – it was close – was slightly better. That’s the decision we went with. I’ll be curious to see how he responds to that. He’s going to get a full night of kicking on Thursday, and we’ll go from there. I thought both those guys handled it well, but that was the decision we went with.”

On how Coons was better:

“Statistically, it was almost a dead heat, especially when you put all of the practice stuff in. I would say that he’s got a slightly bigger leg. Carey was a guy I thought got the ball up in the air a little bit better so you could really compare the kicks, but Travis has a slightly bigger leg, but it was close. It was not an easy decision.”

On OL Joe Thomas and WR Brian Hartline not practicing today:

“Joes was a veteran day. Then Brian I think just got stepped on so it was just something that we wanted to go ahead and rest him. A lot of the stuff we were doing today was reduced pace anyway so we went ahead and shut Brian down.”

On an update on QB Johnny Manziel and when he might resume throwing:

“Yeah, he’s close. I just spoke with (head athletic trainer) Joe Sheehan about that, that he’s where we thought he would be in the progression and that we’re confident by the end of the week that he’ll be able to handle the football and throw it.”

On the No. 2 QB:

“Whoever our two quarterback is – right now we’re hopeful that it’s going to be Johnny – he has to be able to throw. We’re not going to roll the dice and go into a game, especially after (QB) Josh (McCown) showed us that he can be a little bit on the reckless side sometimes. No, Johnny, we’re confident that he’ll be where ne heeds to be, and like I said before, if we’re not, then we’ll address it appropriately.”

On WR Terrelle Pryor potentially aggravating his hamstring factoring into his playtime Thursday:

“We don’t want to put him at risk, but it’s a fine line. We also want to have him out there. I’ll rely on the judgement of the medical staff and also when Terrelle tells us that ‘Hey, I’m ready to go. A big part of that is going to be just going through another day of rehab and working it tomorrow and seeing how he feels when he warms up on Thursday night. If there’s a high risk of a severe re-injury, then we won’t expose him to that, but if we feel he can go out there and give us some quality reps on a pitch count, then I think that’s best for all involved.”

On WR Vince Mayle’s position in the WR room:

“Vince has had some adjustment issues. I know I have said it before, but going through the spring with the thumb and not catching anything – just like a corner, as we talked about with our corners some, same with receiver – that a lot of it is confidence. Vince just has to play. He has done a good job. It has just been inconsistent. No different to me than any other rookie dealing with the growing pains and the adjustment to life in the NFL, dealing with an NFL route tree and an NFL Playbook. On top of that, having balls fired at him from NFL quarterbacks, I think it is all part of an adjustment process for Vince. He has handled it well. He needs to continue to improve. I think Thursday will be a big night for him.”

On if the Browns would consider carrying eight WRs:

“Yeah, I would say that is not out of the realm of possibility. There are certainly teams that have kept that many and teams that have kept a lot less. Thursday is part of it, and we will see how it all shakes out at that position.”

On if the Browns would like to have a young quarterback on the practice squad during the season:

“To me, you need to have three quarterbacks on campus. If we go with the decision to only carry two on the 53 and we have not made that determination yet, I just think three on campus, three or four on campus, is important.”

On DL Danny Shelton’s progress and his confidence in Shelton:

“We feel real good about where Danny is. That his learning curve , characterized by not just how he is playing, but the questions he is asking, to me he is already at a level whether it is through film study or working with (defensive quality control) Coach (Tony) Tuioti or (defensive line) Coach (Anthony) Weaver that he…. I would put him along the lines, his development, to where we were with (OL) Joel Bitonio a year ago. If you spent time around him and watched him play and how he carries himself in the meetings and the questions that he asked, it would come as a surprise to you that it is his first year.”

On the motive to draft Shelton:

“We felt that the reason we were very excited about the pick was because we felt that it was the intersection of value and need. Danny was rated very highly on our board and it was a position given our circumstances with Phil coming off the injury and where we were with our struggles against the run, (which) was well documented. It was a very easy pick for us to make.”

On his faith that the Browns will have a great defensive line:

“We’re very confident in the group that we have. We feel the defensive line is going to be the strength of what we do defensively. Those are our circumstances. We are confident with the youth in that room. We were able to add (DL) Randy (Starks) this offseason. (DL) John Hughes is back healthy. (DL) Jamie Meder has stepped up and proven that he can play at a high level in this league. Shelton and (DL Xavier) Cooper and Des (DL Desmond Bryant) are playing at a high level. We knew that coming into – it was a good problem to have – it was still a problem figuring out how to get the roster set. We are very confident in the group that we have.”

On if his time in with QB Thaddeus Lewis in Buffalo played a part in Lewis signing here and does he see Lewis future tied to Manziel:

“To answer the first part of it, yes. I was able to spend time with him and see how he approached the game and how professional and knowledgeable. He was able to go out and win football games. He did that for us when I was in Buffalo. I think he started against the Dolphins twice and won both of those games. He is a competitor. That left an impression on me when his name came up. This is a guy I worked closely with and saw what he could do and we certainly need to see as we already talked about with Johnny’s situation. Where we think it is headed we are confident that he is on the road to getting back and to be able to throw very quickly, but it is nice to know that we have guy here that has won games in the NFL and will be there for us and hopefully put some quality work out there for us on Thursday.”

Remember those depth charts that people were questioning earlier in the off-season?

That is a ridiculous statement.

However, if it were true, I would disagree w/which fans and media members are the idiots.

We had a very good one here in Banner...........and y'all ran him out of town.

I think you guys don't really know much about Bowe.

We'll see.

I predict most of you will hate him by year's end.

And I can say that because I actually thought he was great coming out of college and predicted he would have a great career.

I didn't realize at the time that he would have issues with:

--substance abuse

--quitting on routes

--having alligator arms

--not being in top shape

--dropping too many balls because of poor concentration.

Hopefully, him being released wakes him up and he utilizes his awesome physical skills [which are not as great as they once were] but are probably still good enough.

I ain't holding my breath on that one, though. Did you see the effort he made on the first pass thrown his way the other night. That's D. Bowe.

When I pay $150 bucks for a seat, $20 to park, and $10 for a beer, I deserve a freakin Championship!

Of course you play for approval from your team-mates, coaches, etc, but never lose sight of the fact that it's the fans who are ultimately paying the freight...

Cleveland tailgating is undefeated for maybe the last 40 years. It would be nice if the team played close to those high standards.

I'm certainly not going to say you are wrong. But I certainly hope you are.

Maybe Pettine understands the game better than many of our posters. Maybe some of our posters know the game better than many other of our posters. Though I won't mention names..... like Vers and Tab or clevesteve