DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Presidential Hopefuls (part3)

Truth be told, I've always thought that purple text was like a set of training wheels for folks who needed more literary help than the effort was worth.

Others seemed to have no problem getting the joke without the purple font.

But that's ok. At every party, there's always someone who laughs at the joke last. Let's round him up next time, so HE can explain the punch line to you. There's no shame in hiring a tutor if you're falling behind in class.

NOW you can accuse me of 'having my nose in the air.' This time, it would be entirely appropriate.

See how that works?

OK... THIS is why I don't usually do snark:

I leave this thread... and click on "Tough Times" by Vers. Needless to say, I regained a sense of perspective.

That's why I'm re-posting in this thread WITHOUT editing my prior post. That would be the cowardly way out. I'm also leaving it up as an act of penance- so the entire community can see what an asshat I can be when I'm caught in the wrong mood.

Instead, I'm offering up a public apology to you, Mr. Ted... for forgetting my own cardinal rule of being a good citizen. It would be just as cowardly for me to rip you in public, then apologize in a PM.

I'm glad I got my 'reality check' so quickly. I hate letting stuff like this fester... and I hate falling short of the standards that I was raised to reach.

_____________

We now return you to our regularly-scheduled broadcast; Presidential Hopefuls )part3)

Thanks Clem, I apologize also.

Berinie Sanders For President!

just sayin'

Based upon what he's saying.....
..we could do much worse at this present time.


(...and we probably will...)

if this comes down to Trump Vs. Sanders, it's gonna be a slaughtering.

right now the biggest issue is income inequality and other social issues.

people are complaining about big corporations and outsourcing, and the republicans are (most likely) gonna give Mr. Big business himself the nod?

that would really signal the end of the republican party. because yet again it shows that republican politicians are too far out of touch with the average american. they say they are, but their policies show anything but.

Nate Silver has Trump's chances at winning the GOP nomination at 2%, and Sanders at about the same margin for the Democratic ticket.

Bernie Sanders loves the socialist European model and would soon have America looking like Greece.

Ouzo for everybody!

I went through the Cold War for most of my life as America fought for its very life against Socialism and Communism and now
I read where my fellow Americans on these Boards are supporting
a self declared Socialist for President.

Perhaps we will be renaming the United States to the...

United
States
Socialist
Republic

Can't help but feel that the battle is lost, we have become a nation of government dependents. Almost half of the people in this country rely in full, or in part, on the government for their basic necessities... and a significant portion of the other half think it's only "fair" that the government continues to provide more and more for people who can't, or won't, support themselves. I honestly don't see any of this changing because anybody who dares to say that people should actually be responsible for themselves is painted as a cold hearted bastard and vilified in the media... oh well, we will reap what we sew...

Instead of picking a failed/failing attempt at socialism why not use Norway? Where quality of life is extremely high. They take care of their elderly. They educate their citizens. They don't have a crumbling infrastructure.
Why can't America be held to those standards? Why should Vers and his brother go broke trying to finance caring for his mother, only to have her spend her life savings and any inheritance she may have been able to save... To end up on Medicare... Which is socialized medicine?! Why is it that everyone thinks of Greece? Why does our version of 'socialism' have to be a failure? Why shouldn't we hold our government to a higher standard?
Oh. Cuz 'Merica.

It's comments like this, so full of complete nonsense and rhetoric, that make you look like you don't have a clue. Please take a moment to learn who Bernie is and understand what "Democratic Socialist" means and more importantly means to Mr. Sanders.

Here is a link to help you out:

Bernie Sanders vs ignorant attacks - Click Me and Learn Something!

Have you looked at the cost of living in Norway? Oslo is one of the highest cost of living cities in the world. They also have only 5 million people in the entire country - the state of Ohio has over double that. They also get a lot of money from oil production that is completely owned by the government.

Some prices of everyday items in Norway as compared to the US:
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/com...2=United+States

I have a very good friend from Norway that has been in the states now for about 15 years. He left because of socialism - he was tired of people working a lot less than him and getting the same pay so he moved to the US. He just shakes his head at the politics here pushing a socialist agenda.

Didn't Norway become wealthy because of Oil and Gas reserves?

I read thru your liberal propaganda site, Comrade. I see
you bought into it, hook, line and sinker. What a bunch of bull.

You and others want to grow the "Hand out" State by taking
from the successful. So very good are you socialists with
other people's money.

Such thinking attacks everything that was great about America.

United
States
Socialist
Republic

The Scandinavian countries have incredible social services, but people forget the cost with which to get those services. They just look at Sweden and go "Oh they have free college!" But nothing is free:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international...-sweden/276428/

The middle quintile in the United States pays 12.7% in federal income tax. A colleague of mine left Texas to move to Stockholm, and after calculating everything determined he had an effective tax rate of 51%. So even though he was making roughly the same in Kroner as he did USD, he had no disposable income. The upside to this is he has a nice safety net in case he loses his job, but the downside is he has little money available to him to invest or build something with. He puts his money into the state and prays they know better than he does...

I'll pay a higher tax rate to know that one medical diagnosis, such as cancer, won't lead me to losing my home and my life savings. I'll take higher taxes to know that those taxes are being used to fund repair of our infrastructure. Leading to living wage construction type jobs for my fellow countrymen. I won't mind paying higher taxes knowing there's a safety for my aging parents.
As it is I'm not sure what I'm getting for the taxes I pay now. Another tank for the war machine? Another congressman's lifetime benefits for their 4 years of service....which lead to a higher paying lobbying gig?

So, you're willing to pay 51% of your income in taxes? (might even be higher, depending on if sales tax, state income tax, licenses, permits etc are included. I don't know if they are/were.....just saying).

you forgot the other side.

the free for all which the the people get to outsource jobs all the time, and the typical response is more or less "tough luck".

so we can complain about the "takers", but why is it that nobody wants to acknowledge the reasons people can't get jobs anyway? cause outsourcing for more profits.

founding fathers that people love to bring up...always biting them in the ass when it matters most.

Outsourcing has hurt, no doubt. (ever notice the quality of goods imported? Many times it's lacking)

However, just talked to my friend again this past weekend. In Williams county Ohio - Bryan - he's looking for employees. Starting wage is between $10 and $15 an hour. Overtime available.

He can't find people that will actually show up for work. You know, be there on time, and actually work.

Problem is work ethic, AND the whole "welfare, food stamps, WIC, aid for single mothers, rent money, help with utilities, and all the other programs out there."

Why actually work when I can get by without working?

Disability.......what exactly does one need to be on disability? I have a friend that got drunk, fell off a truck, and she now gets $1500 a month - for doing nothing, even though she can work.

I could list 6 people like that right now. 6 people I know.

And by the way, this isn't a rocket science business.

Yes, mostly oil that is all government controlled. They also have a very hefty tax rate and an extremely high cost of living. That and the weather sucks.

I don't think most people respond with "tough luck", I think most people, on both sides, disapprove of outsourcing... but what to do about it? Republicans generally favor creating incentives to keep business here such as lower taxes and less regulation... democrats seem to favor punishing companies for shipping jobs overseas... but nobody really likes it.



Homebuilders take a beating from lack of skilled labor - CNBC

Labor Shortages Loom as Most-In-Demand Group of Workers Retire - Career Profiles

Worker Shortage Hammers Builders - Wall Street Journal

US Manufacturing Faces a two-million-worker shortage over the next decade - Deloitte

So I don't know Swish, why is it that people can't find jobs?

bro you know how much they tax for importing a car there?

i felt broke just reading the policy. jeeeeeeeeezzzuuuussss.

hey man, you and Arch have a great point.

but a lot of people are getting degree's in other stuff as well. not everybody wants to do manual labor.

now, this is the part where somebody jumps on the high horse and goes "it's not about what you want, but what you have to do to survive".

while then going home at night and telling there kids they can be whatever they want to be in life.

What degree jobs are we outsourcing? The majority of outsourcing is manufacturing and those annoying customer service tech people that nobody can understand.


I tell my kids that the harder you work and the more education you get the more options you have but I've also told them that there is no shame in swinging a wrench or driving a backhoe if you have to.. I tell them they can be whatever they want, except a freeloader.... so yes, you are pretty much correct on both counts.

well the majority of those jobs are in the service industry.

also, the tech world is starting to get outsourced more and more.

look, all i'm saying is we can't just always blame it on the "takers". people need to acknowledge that corporations have their hands dirty as well.

Quite a few. Off the top of my head, radiology is a big one. It's a common misconception that the only jobs going overseas are manufacturing and unskilled labor.

And sometimes we need to be objective about which people as well as corporations belong on the takers list.
Sometimes people seem to leave off a lot of the takers on their list.

How do you outsource an x-Ray machine that is being used in a hospital here?

Let me ask you a question... if it was possible, and we took every company around the world and made them pull all of their operations back to within their own borders... all of the R&D, all of the manufacturing, all of the customer service, all of it... would the US be better off? Would we be net winners or losers in that deal?

“Hospitals outsource the management of physicians from a physician management company. In other words, they buy physicians’ time from a management company. In this way, they get dedicated physicians who, for the most part, only work for their hospital. This is not necessarily the same thing as outsourcing radiological services, where hospitals send images out and it could be read by one of 1,000 radiologists,” Clark says.

http://www.zmescience.com/research/some-...tsourced-05354/

yes.

and it doesn't need to be all, but most.

The countries doing the best have more exports going out than imports, whereas the US has slightly more imports than export.

look at this:

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/balance-of-trade

germany has a surplus.

also this:

Total value of exports: $1.492 trillion

Primary exports – commodities: motor vehicles, machinery, chemicals, computer and electronic products, electrical equipment, pharmaceuticals, metals, transport equipment, foodstuffs, textiles, rubber and plastic products

Primary exports partners: European Union (58.2 percent of total exports), US (7.0 percent), China (6.1 percent), Switzerland (4.5 percent), Russia (3.3 percent)

Total value of imports: $1.276 trillion

Primary imports - commodities: machinery, data processing equipment, vehicles, chemicals, oil and gas, metals, electric equipment, pharmaceuticals, foodstuffs, agricultural products

Primary imports partners: European Union (54.8 percent), China (8.9 percent), US (5.5 percent), Switzerland (4.2 percent), Russia (3.3 percent)

So they export more than they import, meaning that most of their goods are made in Germany.

This holds the same for Norway, Sweden, Denmark, countries that for similar reasons, always get compared to the US from economic and social issues.

so to answer your question, Is that to say 100% that if we export more than we import, we would be better off?

yes, IMO. Because all these countries have a strong middle class, while ours are weakening. people in those countries can afford to by their own products. My wife's uncle just picked up a brand new m5, and he works for the plant in Stuttgart. granted, he's been there a while.

There's people who work at a ford plant right now who can't even afford the damn Fiesta.

The Radiologist is still in the US and must be registered in the US in order to legally read the Xray or Mri etc. The Hospital won't be able to collect money especially from Medicare,
Medicaid and many Health care organizations otherwise.

I can find strong indications that the answer would be yes, we would be winners.

If you look at economic trends from the 50's through the late 70's, we had a very strong economy. We had strong unions. Working class people in manufacturing had representation that insured good living wages. Non union shops had to compete with union wages to keep skilled people.

A result of that is that most working class people, even in the manufacturing field had disposable incomes with which to afford homes, new cars and many consumer goods. So much so that both consumers and business had great success.

Since that time, a lot of these jobs have gone away. The percentage of union workers has sharply declined. A smaller portion of our workers can afford homes, new cars and many consumer good. This causes goods to sell less, cars to sell less. And when looking at homes, so many were sold irresponsibly to people that really couldn't afford them in the first place, we saw the housing crash.

Now people try to argue these points on the number of houses and cars sold, but they don't take into account how many houses are foreclosed on and cars repossessed.

In the 80's through the early 2000's, I worked the exact same jobs many in my family did, making less money with less benefits and 401k rather than a pension. I worked more hours, did more side work (concrete, decks)to just come close to what they made.

The greed of corporations to further line their pockets at the expense of the American worker has had disastrous impacts on our nations economy.

I can't and won't defend people who refuse to work when they are able. I do however understand why hard working people get so frustrated and apathetic when they realize that no matter how hard they work, their odds of getting ahead are shrinking daily. That their possibility of The American Dream is slipping away.

It's why today, many manufacturing jobs pay 10-12 an hour. Those same jobs years ago paid more money for the same job. If you wish to look at the economy, simply look who controls the money and how many more have been excluded from the odds of success. You'll see that without a working consumer base that has the incentive of getting ahead and without spending power, we all suffer.

Legally, yes, this is true. But they still do it anyway.

In that case it is a Federal Felony and jail time with big fines await them.