DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Another Manziel Thread

There was a poster who recently was willing to take that bet giving you 10-1 .... why didn't you take him up on it?

Did you guys see the game?

He turned the ball over three times in the meat of the game and ran himself into trouble time and again by running out of the pocket.

He hit a go route to Benji that he even underthrew, but it was so wide open it didnt matter and then had his overthrow/catch magic JFF moment stupidly throwing off his backfoor while running backwards, for a moment it was like in college station, but the other 20+ drop backs, he looked like a minor league shortstop playing NFL QB

Might as well let JM continue but if we are going to give him the option to run, he will get hurt again. After watching some of the replays, he just had some throws that were not even close [like wrong shoulder]...plowing through these learnings on the field will help.

Keep Josh as a 2nd, especially If he test positive for a concussion as he will be suspect for the rest of the season -especially with the way the O-Line played today.

did YOU watch the game?

the guy went through his progressions before leaving the pocket. when he did leave the pocket early it's because the OL was getting man handled, which was every other play.

he had long runs, 2-3 which got called back because the OL got yet ANOTHER penalty.

tired of the "did you even watch the game?" BS comments. we all watched the game.

and then you're complaining about a TD Throw? really?

I thought he played as well as could be expected. Our O line obviously ain't what we were led to believe.

Actually, watching the replays, you can see him go through the progressions, when he had time. Not sure why O-Line played so poorly as it didn't look like Jets were doing anything weird. While we may not have won - the OLine penalties just absolutely killed every momentum we seemed to get...and it seemed like 3 down was their choice of down to hold or jump. At least do it on first down so we get more plays to make up time!

JM will need to work on his spot accuracy...I watched the the post game conference where the coaches said JM only got the reps he was allowed to do as a second string.

He mentioned that a few times...so what does that mean? By contract, can he only get xx amount of snaps in practice?

Oh my, we've hit a new low point if that crap performance is being praised as hope around here.

Believe what you want...progressions, lol. He's still a first option-and-go run QB. I saw him run into two sacks by stupidly running out of the pocket. He simply doesn't see the field when in the pocket and is hesitant to throw it unless his no1 option is wide opne, like on the TD to Benji...and yes, it WAS underthrown. Benji had to slow down and wait for the ball and then still had time to outrun the DBs, he was WIDE open, like they were in college. Good luck banking on those kind of plays going forward.

Homers on here go as far as dissing the OL, who did a good job taking on 6-7-8 rushers on every snap. Manziel got no respect from Bowles, he had 1on1 matchups all over the field, he never made the Jets pay for it. But yeah, blame it on the OL

what are you talking about?

The OL was crap even when McCown was back there.

Homers? guy your on a browns forum. you're just as much of a homer as the rest of us the moment you made your first post. 5390 post says it all.

Manziel could've played better, but you're giving the guy zero credit, which means it wouldn't had matter what he did, you already made up your mind on what you think about him.

chill out.

I'll dumb it down for you:

1TD - 3TO = bad QB

3TD - 1 TO = good QB

fair enough that there is nothing good to take out of this except for small points. Our D stopped a few times in the first quarter...we had a 9 minute drive...the initial execution of the offense seemed to work - except for the running game. We actually looked like a team for a few minutes...small victories but in my 45 years as a Brown's fan, what other types of victories do we have?

You are probably right on the option first - which was his HS and short college career. That being said, I look more to the running game - or lack thereof as an indicator of the line play. From what I could tell from listening the game, there were zero holes... - I can't say if that was the RB's or the O-line but the Brown's announcers kept saying about the poor line play - as a unit. Funny point on the running into the O-line - made me wonder if he is not used to some of the NFL speed even at the linemen.

It is clear that Josh probably can't make the entire year [if he has a concussion] and all we will have is JM..who if he options first then he won't last but a few weeks either.

Finally, if our OC cannot figure out how to handle the blitz - whether the Oline is good or not - it is a moot point as every team will send everyone all the time. I don't think our WR's evoke enough fear to pull double-coverage...

This may explain why the FO was big on dropping Pryor and getting Turbin...tI wonder if they saw the lack of a running game and grasped for something to fill the hole...even if he was a few weeks out.

So DJ, what would you like to see?

Do you want McCown put back in when he's ready?

maybe i should return the favor.

nobody here said he had a good game. but what we ARE saying is there is a noticeable improvement in his game.

go kick rocks.

Many problems with Johnny were and ARE still hidden.

Can you be more specific?

No.

I want to see Austin Davis.

Unless we're actually all in on tanking the season...in which case go ahead and just role with Johnny.

Tell me what you know about Austin Davis.

Why him over Manziel?

Nobody gets a pass today for this offense and I include Flip. Tepid as it was timid IMO.

Were we really attacking? Lot of wasted plays repeated though they were not effective, especially when behind. Self eval Pett & Co. We got some 'splainin' to do.

Yes. First drive was the only real drive of the entire game.

He's a well below average QB, but way better than Manziel, so he gives you a better chance to win.

I would rather see if Manziel can improve with more experience.

Fair enough, but I doubt more reps will improve his lack of height and field vision. It's a real issue.

That and his tendency to take off. It's part of his game and will only get worse with age and injuries.

I just don't see any upside worth investing time in as a pocket passer.

then tailor the offense around him.

the guy improved.

Why not do something similar like the way the seahawks tailored the system to Russel Wilson? he has the same height and field issues as manziel.

but the way you go about posting, you just give up on the guy without offering any alternatives.

I think size is an issue but not field vision. I think that will come with reps.

I also think he's shown a lot of improvement not running just to run. By your own observation, the Jets were bringing the house every play. More guys to block than blockers. He had no choice on a lot of plays. And if he can learn to strike the right balance finding the right time to run, he's got some wheels and can be a real weapon in that regard.

The best possible thing that can happen for Browns fans is Manziel gets the reps, the experience, and shows growth. There's no guarantee where we will draft next year and there's no guarantee any of the college guys will be any good. Every Browns fan should be pulling for this guy to remain the starter and show growth, IMO.

Improving from the nothingness of last season won't get me clapping my hands, he's still a bad QB with a very limited ceiling as a pocket QB. Sucking less is still sucking.

My alternative? Play McCown as long as the season isn't completely lost. I can't accept losing, it does no good to anybody. After that, who cares, play Manziel or Davis. We don't have a viable NFL QB on the roster.

Maybe ask the Bills about EJ Manuel. At least he has more upside

DJ you dont like Johnny but to criticize his TD throw is just stupid. The kid played his ass off today. He looked really good at times, he made some mistakes. He made a lot of plays that came back and then he was put in very long situations. I thought he was one of the few bright spots today.

Johnny can play in this league and it showed today.

+1

He made major mistakes for sure, showed some really good things both in the pocket and out. Our OL was atrocious, our defense should have stayed in the locker room, haden (lol) and Crow (he should NEVER get a touch outside of the red-zone again).

Because of that good ole' "Ignore" Button, lol

Manziel played badly today. I wish I had the rose colored glasses to pretend he didn't. The rest of the team didn't do him any favors though, and made him look worse than he was.

I disagree. The INT was a bad play but I thought he played decent otherwise. The fumbles and even the INT can be corrected with experience.

We do need to make teams pay for selling out for the run, but I thought Manziel showed some things to build on.

I thought Manziel did a pretty good job given the circumstances, until the game started to get away from them. Then he started to try and do too much and take chances, that's when the mistakes started. I'll take it a positive sign that he wanted to win badly as it seems the rest of team couldn't really give a crap.

Manziel at this point just needs more reps. I thought the best play he made all day was the hot read to Hawkins who had no one in front of him and he just never looked for the ball. should have been 6. He has made such tremendous progress. I just dont think you go back to McCown at this point.

Hell this is probably the best defense he will see all year. Plus I just really want to see Manziel vs mariotta. I want to see how he progresses after actually getting first team reps.

j/c:

If McCown gets cleared, I'd start him.

We're going back to McCown, without a doubt. Manziel has shown some improvement, but in no way did he win the starting job. For those who want to see him play more, he will get his chances, sooner more likely than later, but there is no need to start him at this point in the season simply to get reps.

JMHO

I can understand that point, the whole dont lose your job to injury thing but I go with my young QB and let my career backup stay the career backup lol. It probably will be Johnny this week as it doesnt seem like anyone that gets a concussion is out for just one week. They are even more cautious with hits like he took.

Its not a stomp your feet disagreement either lol. McCown was playing well yesterday before he went out.

There's nothing to gain by starting McCown. He's not good enough to take this team anywhere.

Play Manziel. If he's as bad as many think, the Browns will be vying for the worst team in the league. Haslam can blow everything up and the new guys will have possibly the top pick in the draft to work with. Many of the players, including Manziel, will be gone.

That is a way better outcome than a 5-11 season with McCown at the helm because Pettine doesn't want to hurt the veterans feelings. Screw that.

Either be good or bad.

And maybe, just maybe, Manziel ends up pretty good. Then you have something to build on.

The best thing to happen to the Browns yesterday was McCown getting knocked out of the game and Pettine is going to eff it all up.

I disagree.

I think if cleared to play, starting Manziel over McCown will lose the entire locker room-- I think that is a big deal. He's just not ready IMO and putting him out there in the second week concedes the entire season, to me.

I know it was only two series, but McCown had a drive of 17 plays and ate up almost the entire 1st quarter. This is the formula we need in order to win.

I understand the argument let's see what we have in Manziel and if we suck we know to draft a QB but I still want this team to learn how to win games and not give it up in mid-September.

I understand you wanting to see what Manziel has, but there's no reason to tank the season just to see what you have in the backup. McCown is the better player at this point, that's why he'll get the start over Maziel once he's cleared to play. But never fear, Manziel will likely see the field plenty this year, and I'm guessing by the end of the season we'll know what we have in him. I'm also guessing, we'll draft a QB in 2016.

JMHO

I just fear there is nothing to build off from yesterday. Starting Manziel is not giving up on the season. It's planning for the future, something the franchise has an obligation to do for its fans. The season was given up on the minute they signed McCown anyway.

Besides there are no competitors on this team, and our coach doesn't know how to get these guys up to play.

Losing the locker room? After the product they put on the field yesterday, it's like it's already happened. I strongly urge anyone who hasn't seen it to watch Pettine's presser. Guy wouldn't even make eye contact with anyone.

I don't care who the QB is, you can not be expected to consistently convert after 2nd and 9 & 3rd and 7 all game long.