DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Religion Discussion

Instead of playing word games, let me put it to you this way...

There are Tens of Thousands of Christians praying for this
woman now, let's watch and see what happens.

What law did she break? I don't know of any WRITTEN law that says a marriage isn't determined by the state. There are no federal laws that strip away the authority of the state to conduct marriages as they see fit.

IF there is a WRITTEN law please show it to me. The supreme court can't legislate new law that authority is held by Congress.

30A.020 Oath of clerk and deputies.
Every clerk and deputy, in addition to the oath prescribed by Section 228 of the
Constitution, shall, before entering on the duties of his office, take the following oath in
presence of the Circuit Court: "I, ....., do swear that I will well and truly discharge the
duties of the office of .............. County Circuit Court clerk, according to the best of my
skill and judgment, making the due entries and records of all orders, judgments, decrees,
opinions and proceedings of the court, and carefully filing and preserving in my office all
books and papers which come to my possession by virtue of my office; and that I will not
knowingly or willingly commit any malfeasance of office, and will faithfully execute the
duties of my office without favor, affection or partiality, so help me God." The fact that
the oath has been administered shall be entered on the record of the Circuit Court.
Effective: January 2, 1978
History: Created 1976 (1st Extra. Sess.) Ky. Acts ch. 21, sec. 2, effective January 2, 1978.

That is the written oath of office she took. A federal judge ordered her to comply with said oath. She refused. Which is contempt of court.

403.760 Contempt of court. (Effective until January 1, 2016)
(1) Violation of the terms or conditions of an order issued under the provisions of
KRS 403.740 or 403.750, whether an emergency protective order, or an order
following hearing, after service of the order on the respondent, or notice of the
order to the respondent, shall constitute contempt of court.
(2) Any peace officer having probable cause to believe a violation has occurred of
an order issued under the provisions of KRS 403.740 or 403.750, whether an
emergency protective order or an order following a hearing, and after service
on the respondent or notice to the respondent as provided under KRS 403.735,
shall arrest the respondent without a warrant for violation of a protective order
pursuant to KRS 500.020, 403.715, and 403.740. Following a hearing the
District Court in the county in which the peace officer made the arrest for the
violation may punish the violation of a protective order as a violation of a
protective order.
(3) Court proceedings for contempt of court, under KRS 403.715 to 403.785, shall
be held in the county where the order, whether an emergency protective order
or order following hearing, was issued.
(4) Nothing in this section shall preclude the Commonwealth from prosecuting and
convicting the respondent of criminal offenses other than violation of a
protective order.
(5) Civil proceedings and criminal proceedings for violation of a protective order for
the same violation of a protective order shall be mutually exclusive. Once
either proceeding has been initiated the other shall not be undertaken
regardless of the outcome of the original proceeding.
Effective:July 14, 1992
History: Amended 1992 Ky. Acts ch. 172, sec. 10, effective July 14, 1996

So again where does the LAW state that homosexuals are to be married in her area? Her county has written no new law saying to issue permits to homosexuals. To the best of her ability she is following the WRITTEN law.

Now if this where is a state or city where they have written law to issue licences to homosexuals then I could see where she is not doing her job but the fact is that is not the case. No where in our constitution does it give the supreme court the ability to legislate new laws.

I would also find it funny if the governor pardoned her.

Once again, no she is not. She is in violation of Kentucky State law 403.760 (Contempt of court).



The Supreme Court's decision in Obergfell v. Hodges, which deemed a ban on same sex marriage to be unconstitutional on the grounds of equal rights violations.

I think the Supreme court disagrees with you -- pretty explicitly... you should go look into it, it was in the news and stuff.

A governor can't pardon a contempt of court charge.

Those celebrating this clerk should really ask how much power you want to give individual county clerks, do you really want a county clerk in your city who gets to decide whether or not to enforce laws based on their own religious convictions? Do you want to live in a county where:

a.) you have a Muslim clerk who decides to reject the food service license for any restaurant that serves bacon

b.) you have a Conservative Jewish Clerk who refuses licenses for companies that will be open on Saturdays?

c.) you have a Quaker clerk who refuses to give out gun/hunting licenses?

d.) you have a Mormon clerk who refuses any city alcohol permit, or won't allow coffee shops to open?

This isn't a question of gay marriage, this is a question of "do elected officials have to follow the law"

If the woman was refusing to hand out gun licenses, I think a lot of people on this board would be doing a 180 real quick and ranting about how "second amendment rights can't be taken away".

Well, guess what, the Supreme Court just declared that the right to marry (straight or gay) is guaranteed by the 14th amendment, just like you can't let a county clerk declare a county gun free, you can't let individual county clerks refuse people the right to marry.

Article 6, Clause 2.

There is nothing in that article that gives the supreme court the ability to legislate new laws. In fact the federal government legislative branch(congress) is the only one that can do so by making a marriage law. They haven't done so therefore it is up to the state to decide. Therefore there is nothing IN the constitution determining what marriage is and therefore no part of it that CAN be unconstitutional.

Are any of those clerks elected officials? Then let the voters decide. Local communities should have a right to their own culture since they are the ones who live there.

If they are appointed then let those who appointed them fire them for failure to do their job.

Easy. Don't elect muslims, jews, quakers, or mormons.

They didn't legislate any new laws. They struck down unconstitutional laws that banned gay marriage. And, once again, the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution asserts that the Constitution is the highest law of the land, and the The Supreme Court is the arbiter of what is and isn't constitutional. Their decisions override any state law that they deem to be unconstitutional.



Again, this is incorrect. The Supreme Court ruled that gay marriage bans are unconstitutional under the 14th Amendment. The issue isn't a definition of marriage, it's that by banning two people from getting married, while letting two other people get married, a state would be in violation of the 14th amendment.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

I don't think the supreme court has the authority to redefine marriage as it has been known for thousands of years. One of the main reasons we have a house of representatives is to help protect states from an overbearing federal government trying to make all states exactly alike. We have different states along with many, many different cultures in our country. Our founding fathers understood that and wanted states to have the right to live as they seem fit except when it endangered the nation. thus federal laws take precedence over state laws. When there is no federal law it should be left up to the individual state.

If marriage is not defined by a man and a woman as has been for thousands of years then you can no longer define marriage and all you have is a public contract with no real meaning. It WILL open the floodgates for people being married to whoever and whatever they want eventually. The supreme court has grossly overstepped their authority.

Once again, you are incorrect. They most certainly have the authority to ban laws that violate the Constitution. 250 years ago, marriage was a property transaction in which the participants were arranged. In the 1940's and 50's, laws banning those with physical or mental deficiencies from getting married were struck down. In 1967, the Supreme Court struck down laws banning interracial marriage. There is a long history establishing the Court's authority, starting with the Constitution.

So theocracy it is then!

I went to Brunnerdale Seminary to become a Catholic priest. It is now Glenmoore Golf/community designed by Jack Nicholson..

I really wanted to devote my life to God and serve as a priest.. There were things that made me change my mind..And to this day it saddens me that I failed in following that desire I had...

Instead of devotion to God... I damned myself with sin and allowed Satan to change me from a devout Catholic/Christian to a damn sinner.

I left the Church and have not made many appearances since... I did the being saved thing at a Christian rock show and felt great.. but once again fell weak to the devil..

I still very often fall asleep holding my Rosary..Which makes me feel good... and talking to God at night before I sleep.. What bothers me is I accept excuses like.. Your born that way.. no ones perfect.. It's a chemical in balance in your brain... etc..

But what I always remember ..is how great I felt after leaving Church and the Spiritual high I was on.I want to find that perfect Church for me... But at the same time I feel so ashamed to go.. Because I'm afraid I will fail.

I feel since I didn't follow through with the Priesthood that I let God down so much.. And now I feel I'm not worthy for his forgiveness,acceptance and Love.

Knowing God is forgiving..Telling God that you want him in your heart and want to be a part of his Kingdom.. Is how I feel..but yet I still continue to sin.. the way I'm
thinking is absolutely ridiculous.

I really feel like God has my right hand... and the devil has my left... And I'm being torn right down the middle..And the whole time I'm yelling for God to save me.

I must stop fearing myself and stop allowing the guilt of my sins to keep me away from the only salvation I have.

That salvation is God and I keep telling myself.. Do I really need to go to church ? My heart says you don't have to.. Then it says Billy... you always felt so good when you did... I'm having a real hard time with this..And it is very important for me to get it figured out..

I've never not believed in God.. I have questioned it...
If God and Satan aren't real... Then why do I ask God to allow me into his Kingdom and fear going to Hell ?

As of now I seem to get by with holding my Rosary and my talks with God... I just wonder if going back to Church .. getting past my fears and feelings of failure.. will help my Soul to heal.

I think you know, but I want everyone to know, I was joking.

I will do my best to get back to you on this post.

There's a lot of questions.

But, for the time being, just trust that even the "best" of Christians have the same thoughts you do. We never feel "there". Knowing that, realizing that - is important. For our selves.

And that's not to say I'm a great Christian. I'm in the same boat as you. There isn't a final "I made it" time, as we all constantly strive to be better. It's the journey that improves us. The desire. The willingness to see our faults.

Even the apostle Paul still sinned. You should read Romans chapters 6 through 8 for starters. Those chapters really helped me understand the mystery of sin and how to receive God's grace to overcome it.

It's a daily relationship. Everyone fails, we're either-or we're getting up.

And remember this-SALVATION IS NOT BASED ON HOW YOU FEEL!

One guy I like to listen to every now and again named Roger Sapp says, 'sometimes I don't feel saved till I've had two cups of coffee!'

You have to forgive yourself. God did for Jesus sake, who are you to hold yourself against yourself?

Learn to trade your weakness for His strength. I do this through worship, listening to songs that soften my heart so I can receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that gives me the strength to live right by his power in this world.

My favorite of the Gospels is the Gospel of John. I would also read (the whole New Testament) The Epistles of John for starters also. I John has an emphasis on God's love for us.

One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord.
Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.
In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand.
Sometimes there were two sets of footprints,
other times there were one set of footprints.

This bothered me because I noticed
that during the low periods of my life,
when I was suffering from
anguish, sorrow or defeat,
I could see only one set of footprints.

So I said to the Lord,
‘You promised me Lord,
that if I followed you,
you would walk with me always.
But I have noticed that during the most trying periods of my life
there have only been one set of footprints in the sand.
Why, when I needed you most, you have not been there for me?’

The Lord replied,
‘The times when you have seen only one set of footprints in the sand,
is when I carried you.’

-Mary Stevenson

Wow !! brought tears .. Nice.. very nice Thank you

deisel if you want to find a church then just start going to visit some. If ther eis one meant for you then God will eventually guide you to one he thinks suits you. He may have some lessons for you so don't worry about if the church you visit is t"THE" church meant for you.

Don't care about what you did in your past. God forgives it all if you're sincere in asking for it. It doesn't matter what vices you have either. We all have different things that temp us in horrible ways. Just acknowledge that weakness and do your best to fight doing it. God knows you heart and will know your trying hard even if you fail a few times.

Just forgive yourself and move on while God comes to show you the way =)

It is a beautiful and moving poem that has brought me strength
thru the years in my walk with God.

Always remember we ALL are sinners and fall far short of
what God deserves from us. He loves us anyway. He truly
loves the sinner, what he hates is the sin.

We fight every day against sin, sometimes winning and sometimes losing but we never stop picking ourselves up, we keep on coming. We all go thru times where we question our faith and question God's very existence.

God however never loses faith in us.

It has taken me 60 years to come to the point where I know God is there for us all without question. I have faith in God just like I have faith there will be air to breath when I leave one room and enter another. It is unquestionable for me now and that brings me peace.
I pray peace for you Billy.

Thank you and thank you to all of you.. I didn't read the whole thread and I honestly don't know what most posts are about..

I just sensed the need to tell how i felt in a religious way.

And already I feel better than ever... And it's all the words from you all.. means a lot.. it really does..

I live in a Canadian province where gay marriage has been legal since 2003, and while there was some public debate prior to the law being put in place, in the dozen years since, it's not been an issue. No one cares anymore. I know that privately, there are people who will express their displeasure for gay marriage, but I thankfully live in a small corner of the world where "live and let live" wins the day.

BTW, Americans who happen to be gay used to flock to Canada to get married, which I gather was a symbolic thing. Not so much now I don't think but at one time it was common.

Kind of crazy the woman from Kentucky is also Apostolic.


Small world.

J/C ......

Question:


President Obama has refused to enforce immigration laws, citing his beliefs, and his conscience. How is that any different from what this lady has done?

It's the privilege of the president to enforce or not to enforce laws. Thats one of the checks and balances.

For instance cities and states might be willing to legalize pot use but the fact remains by federal law it's still illegal. As president he could go into those states and arrest every single pot shop owner and grower.

ATM there is NO written federal law that control any part of marriage except allowing or not allowing foreigners to immigrants as a wife. Guess what? Those federal laws don't allow or permit for the marriage of a homosexual manner. If anything its sets a federal precedent to what a real marriage is considered to be. Its for making and raising children and to give those children a legitimacy to inherit by law. Since homosexuals CAN'T create children the immigration policy blocks a legal marriage through immigration.

you know he's deported the most, right?

We don't need to be afraid of failing, rather we should be afraid of not trying...

"It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out; it's the pebble in your shoe".
...Muhammed Ali

That depends on who you ask. I googled-Obama deports most illegals and found arguments for and against And 'what they're saying now doesn't count because terminology has changed' articles.

good point Ted.

good morning to you by the way. good morning to all.

I'm pretty sure that the Bible says that if the government puts you in a position where you have to either break the law of the land or break the law of God, that you should break the law of the land... This is illustrated in a story where the edict comes down to pray to a a golden idol set out by the King instead of the Christian God and when Daniel and others refused, they were punished..

Now, we can debate whether or not she is actually breaking the law of God or not by distributing these licenses.. that's a different debate.

She has taken her stand, and she is being punished...

I'm of the opinion GOD doesn't require a form or license. That license belongs to Caesar, give unto Caesar what is Caesar's. She works for the state, not the church. She needs to abide by the states rules as she would any employer and if these rules are in conflict with her personal religious choices, she probably should find a new employer.

Which is exactly what Daniel did in the story, he worked for the King, the King made a law he refused to obey, he was thrown in with the lions.. God saved him and in that story the King realized Daniel was right and changed the law back... if that's what she's hoping for, well good luck.

Again, this is incorrect. The Supreme Court's decision in the United States v. Windsor, which struck down the Defense of Marriage Act (and later in Obergefell v. Hodges, which struck down any laws prohibiting same-sex marriage), means that same-sex marriages in which one of the parties is a foreigner or immigrant now allow for a marriage visa or green card. Here is the first such instance: http://www.domaproject.org/2013/06/press...riage-act.html. Let me explain this in layman's terms: any law on the books that prohibited or failed to recognize a same-sex marriage has been deemed unconstitutional by the highest court, and has therefore been invalidated.

Jesus broke the law of the Pharisees and Sadducees. His Apostles broke the law of Rome and other domains. They were never violent, but they did not stop preaching the teachings of Jesus Christ, as they were legally ordered to do. Christians did not stop worshiping Jesus, despite the threat of death.

We should not be violent, for that is not our role, but we also must not obey laws that violate what God has told us to do, or not do.

She's gonna have a good testimony out of this. Hopefully she gets an interview and compensation for work missed from her church or something.