DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Terrance West traded to Titans

Oh come on, it's obvious no other teams jettison draft picks after drafting them, it is only the Browns

Better quality team, better quality players, better quality depth makes it much harder to break into the Broncos squad than the Browns squad. Pretty basic actually.

Talent gaps in the NFL are a myth.

What really matters is the QB, and the Broncos have one of the best of all-time.

It's kind of funny how the teams with the best QBs are also considered the best drafters.

That or you just watch them play the game and realize they have better talent.

It seems you are indicating that all NFL GM's and their scouting group are on 100% equal footing. That's certainly not the case.

If some GM's are better than others, obviously the talent base they assemble will be a better group.

The whole "talent gap is a myth" is a nice catch phrase, it just doesn't hold water.

If that were the case Green Bay, Denver, New England, and New Orleans would play and/or win the super bowl every year. Teams, such as Cincy, never make the playoffs.

Six of the last eight Super Bowls have had one of those teams. Recent history suggests you need a great QB to make the Super Bowl. The only possible exception is the 49ers/Ravens Super Bowl and in that case Flacco was playing out of his mind in the playoffs.

Yes, it does hold water and is 100% true. The teams with the best QBs are always the best teams. Their GMs aren't geniuses compared to the rest of the league. Of course, not everyone is on equal footing. There will be some that are better than others and vice versa.

A great microcosm example is the one Vers always brings up with the offensive line with Charlie Frye and with Derek Anderson. Same line, same skill players, completely different result.

Were you responding to me? Seriously?

I think I said at least we are trying to get him. That is a compliment!!!! I also said that I didn't think we would get him because it appears he has other options.

I wasn't dissing Farmer.

I am way more balanced and fair than you are. And I am sick of you bashing every opinion I have just because you all into this stupid homer/negative poster mode. You call yourself a "homer" more than anyone else does. Why are you so defensive? And you constantly feel the need to classify posters into a negative group even when they are praising the guy you are so vehemently defending.

tab..........get out of my face w/your stupid regime war crap!

There are two parts to this:

Talent gaps in the NFL are not a myth. Teams like the Packers have way more talent than teams like the Jags. It ain't close.

Secondly, Farmer had chances to get good qbs, he blew it. So, what does that say about him?

blew it big time.

I have been saying that for 2 solid years now.

just sucks.

we could've had watkins and bridgewater.

but instead we have gilbert and maziel.

I'm looking for a "crying" icon...:(
I can't find one, but a Browns board needs one like white on rice.

What about ODB and Bridgewater AND a 1st rd pick?

<---I'm still crying over those too. How great would we look if we had them??

excellent point.

I'd rather have Beckham Jr and Bridgwater.

Man.............how sweet would that have been?

Shhhhhh............I can hear Cal and his posse coming. Dreads. Their horses are snorting. They are kicking up dirt. The men are shooting bullets into the air. Talking about lynching all "whiners" if they don't STFU. Screaming Yee-haw!!!

I'm scared......

....aren't you?

it's just crazy how we seem to always have 2 first rounders in the draft....and blow on all of them.

it's like they see who's the best prospect, that everybody is pimping hard.....then go ahead and choose the opposite.

They are a myth. Browns fans just refuse to believe it.

The Packers are a stable organization. A stable organization with a great QB. Having a great QB allows teams to actually develop the players they draft because they are successful every year and there is no rush to replace coaches and GMs every other year by impatient fanbases and owners. Players get to experience patience, the same coaches, and the same systems year in and year out. This helps players become good to great over time i.e., it helps them develop. A stable culture cannot be understated in the development of a player. A lot of those teams "good" players don't come out of the gate like hell on wheels. And the coaches, who know they are going to be there, have the time to make the investment in developing these players.

Talent gaps at every position except QB are a myth. Find the QB, allow for stability, and all of a sudden any GM will look good.

Now I'm not saying every GM is exactly equal. That would be a ludicrous statement. But this isn't rocket science. The league is so incestuous I find it very hard to believe that there is that much difference between scouting departments and philosophies from team to team.

Another thing that bothers me is the foregone conclusion that Bridgewater and Carr are already great QBs. Let's see how this season plays out for these guys. Weeden won more games as a rookie than Carr. Again, it's a convenient take for the piling on by impatient Browns fans who are sick and tired of losing.

Glad West is gone, he felt entitled...your point on draft picks...last year we took chances on skill players, DB and QB, your 20/20 hindsight is great, but most draft folks agreed with our picks as near best available/ near top of "potential" list.....THIS year we went with linemen....love Shelton and Erving couldn't beat out excellent, proven starters, BUT provides great insurance against injury...time will tell if those 1st rnds are good to great....hope Shelton is D side Thomas....GO Browns!!!!

Who traded two picks to take West in the third round? Who only received a 7th for him?

That makes you happy?

We traded a 4th and a 6th for him to move up to take him, IIRC.

In retrospect, this was not a good move. However, at least we didn't stick with a problem child in this particular case.

Spin, spin, spin.

We gave up two picks to move up to get West. A fourth and sixth.

We spent a 3rd round pick on him.

We traded him for a conditional 7th.

That's a loss!

Just like too many other moves Farmer has made. It's time for him to move on.

You wanted to keep Mangini, as I did, after a bad season with him playing GM, and while dealing with Kokinis' personal demons. Now you want to axe Farmer after a few "questionable" picks? (It's soo early in all their playing careers). Just get over that fact that he doesn't draft the way you would.

Let's see how our new #1 pick pans out before we pass judgment.

What did I say? i said, in retrospect, it was not a good move. Do you want me to throw myself on the floor in tears because of Terrance West? Sorry, but that's not going to happen. It was a mistake. The Broncos cut Monte Ball. Are they idiots too?

Sometimes a regime makes a mistake. It happens. They can't make too many, or else they will be out of their jobs. However, missing on a 3rd round RB does not get a GM fired.

Not only that, was it really a miss? A miss in the truest sense that West simply sucked and should have been a street free agent or later round pick. No, I don't think so. The miss was Wests problem. Not a miss on the talent level. West became frustrated when things didn't go the way he wanted and began to pout.

It hasn't been just one bad move. It's a series of bad moves.

No, I don't want you to cry. Perhaps you could bring back your Three Stooges sig like you did when Banner and Lombardi were here? They didn't make nearly as many dumb moves as Farmer has.

Funny how perception clouds reality.

You had the Three Stooges in your sig. Wow. You wanted to posters to see it on every post you made. Wow. Most of your posts were aimed at bashing them. Post after post after post.

That wasn't crying, huh?

We traded a 4th and a 6th for him to move up to take him. So we traded a 4th and 6th round pick for a 3rd and 7th round pick. That move was not bad. Missing on the pick in the 3rd round that's where the mistake was.

Wat.

Actually, that was rage. (and something I should not have done) However, Banner was wrong in the way he did things. He was also wrong in that when he hired Pettine, he wanted to have coordinators report directly to him instead of Pettine. I can only imagine what you would have said if Farmer had done that. I can imagine that it would not have been very nice though. I also do wonder why such a thing does not concern you about Banner. He was President, acted as GM, and evidently wanted to be the coach as well. That has never concerned you, at least that I can recall. I also have to wonder if that is why Chud was fired, because he refused to agree to such an arrangement? That is just an assumption, but knowing how Chud was, I can imagine him telling Banner to stick it if he approached Chud with such an idea.

Back to Farmer; I am not going to freak out over missing on a 3rd round pick, even if he cost us a 4th and a 7th. I do admit to being very concerned about Gilbert and Manziel, and wonder if Gilbert should even be on this team. He seems to be a real head case, and a big part of me hopes that we are working to trade him. I wonder whether he is mentally strong enough and/or driven enough to ever become a great (or even good) NFL CB. I am less concerned about Manziel, which would have been really strange to say about 6 months ago ..... but I do feel good about the way he has straightened his life out, and also the way he has committed himself to his craft. He definitely looked to have improved this preseason, especially his control at the LOS. That is encouraging.

In his 1st draft, we gained 2 starters in Bitonio and Kirksey, and a guy I like, but you do not, in Desir. However, the 2 guys at the top of that draft will determine whether it was a good draft, or a bad one. If both Manziel and Gilbert become what we hope they can be, they it becomes a great draft. If "only" Manziel becomes a plus level starter, it still becomes a very good draft. If both players bust, then it is a below expectations draft. I cannot say that a draft that generates 2 starters and a player I think can contribute is a bad draft, but with the 2 1st round picks we had, it would definitely be well below expectations if both Gilbert and Manziel bust. Right now there are both signs for concern, and signs for hope.

I think that we also have to look at how Farmer did in Free Agency, and among the UDFA group. I think that he has done very well there.

I also seem to remember that Farmer was involved in Pro Personnel at KC more than anything. He never had a great deal of experience in college players, and he also used the scouting department he inherited to help him in that 1st draft. I do think that his 2nd draft looks really promising, so that gives me hope.

I think that we will know a lot more about Farmer by the end of this year. I am sure that Manziel will have a chance to play before this season is over, so we may have a god idea about what he is at that time. Gilbert will almost certainly have a chance to contribute in some way, so hopefully he either turns it around, or turns it around enough that someone wants to trade for him.

I think that the 1st of those 2 propositions is most likely to happen, and that is good for Farmer, because of Manziel becomes a capable starter, then his 1st draft suddenly becomes very good.

I get it. It's rage or anger w/one regime vs crying and whining if you do it w/another regime.

I can't even fathom the outcry if Banner had made the same moves Farmer has. You guys went nuts over every single move he made and turned rumors into convictions of guilt. Farmer makes terrible moves, gets caught cheating, admits to having meetings w/the coaching staff to break down tape, has his coaches and players in the news for all the wrong reasons, is currently suspended, makes head-scratching roster moves and you defend him.

And then you try to act like you are the rational posters.

Why must you derail every thread with your Regime wars? Do you actually NOT see that you are the only one who gives a crap at anywhere near the level you do?

There is a "Farmer" thread, post there. Mods please move the post above - and about a hundred others that say the exact same thing.

Who drafted West? Who traded West?

It's not irrelevant. You just don't want to hear about it.

Big deal!

The same guy...and...I don't care who did what. You do care. It's ok for both of us.

West didn't work out...he was cut by the guy who supposedly is more worried about his "rep" than fielding the best team he can.

He owned up to his mistake and cut the guy. Simple.

Now on to the football player...from what I know and have seen, I like Turbin better than West.

Cut a guy they didn't want anymore and went and got a guy they think is better. Simpler.

I really wanted us to draft Robert Turbin. I had a much higher grade on him than most and that being a late first. I also had a late first on Duke Johnson as well. lol hopefully i end up being right on both.

The Browns cannot afford to merely trade a 3rd RD pick and cut a 4th RD pick in the same season.
You will never close the gap on the AFC North doing that as the Bengals Ravens and Steelers are GETTING CONTRIBUTIONS from the same rounds.
Farmer has blown more early to mid RD picks than hit.
This Franchise has a worse track record from 1999 to 2014 than any other NFL franchise unless you go back to the Steelers of the 40s 50s.
what has Farmer shown that he's the right man to turn the culture around in Berea?

You misunderstand me. I was extremely angry with the way Banner acted. He screwed Chud over, telling Haslam that he could hire a great, big name, top end coach .....

and he could not deliver. Further, the reports that Banner wanted to have the coordinators reporting directly to him instead of the head coach was idiotic. (and I posted a link earlier about this)

He made the team look really stupid by not only firing the coach he himself hired just a few months prior, but the way it all went down, the way Banner sabotaged his coach was horrible. Nationally the team, and those in charge, were looked at like Bozos, and there was significant cause for that.

I admit that I got caught up in the emotion and anger that was swirling all around the Browns. The team looked stupid in the eyes of almost every news outlet, and in my eyes as well.

I got over it though.