DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Should We Tank The Season?

Reading the prevalence of negative postings, it seems clear that a quite a few feel the team is not heading for a winning season, that four wins are more likely than nine, and that the QB situation is the worst in the league.

Also, given the perceived failure of the first round picks by more than a few here, and the perceived failure of Farmer as a GM, (again by more than a few,) would it be prudent to tank the season to guarantee a #1 draft pick, and high picks in all the other rounds?

We would virtually be only throwing three games, if a four win season is indeed the perceived outcome, and would be able to guarantee securing the top QB in the draft.

The Colts did it for Luck, and no one is blaming them, or calling them quitters or cheaters. It's never even mentioned except in passing. So is there anything wrong with the Browns laying down (amidst a tough schedule) to get a franchise QB, as a strategic plan to help right the ship?

Could the players be convinced that this is the right move?

Would they even consider it, or does pride prevent them from doing so?

I personally can't imagine it, but if it happened, I'm not sure I'd be too upset.

What say you?

No one tanks by playing poorly on purpose. Teams like the Sixers just don't field a competitive team, but the players play hard and the coaches coach hard. Furthermore, there is not an Andrew Luck type to even go after.

Dumb idea.

The Browns have even been too incompetent to achieve this in the past

They signed too many decent vets to make it. The entire D needs replaced in a couple of years and they've drafted bust after bust backing them up right now. No QB for the future, unstable RB, TE, WR situations. There's no plan, really. Not even tanking. It's just everyone trying to save his job

Tank for Cardale? I want him but no bad enough to tank a season.

No, with some caveats:

In basketball (NBA), it's a perfectly legitimate strategy. It's how the Spurs got Duncan. It's how the Cavs got LeBron the first time. It's how the Cavs got Kyrie Irving (technically this was with the Clippers' unprotected first, but the reason the Cavs got that was by taking on a drastically overpaid and often injured player. If they were actually building to win immediately, that cap space would have been used on more useful players.)

It's just one of those double-edged swords-- if you want teams to be able to bounce back quickly by being more likely to get the best players, some teams are going to take advantage of that. See the Philadelphia 76ers lately, and it's hard to blame them for their strategy. The nature of that league is such that one superstar can dramatically change the fortunes of a team, and the current draft lottery only changes to an extent.

The NFL is a bit different. There are more players. No single player (not even a franchise QB) can affect a game as much as a superstar can in basketball. Teams can come out of nowhere and have a good season, and teams that sneak into the playoffs can get hot and win four games and win a championship. Nobody sneaks into the playoffs and wins a title in the NBA.

I guess that's a long way of saying that I don't think going into the season with the idea of tanking makes much sense in the NFL.

In the past, I have rooted for the Browns to lose once the season has been derailed and they have no practical shot at doing anything that year. I'd rather them win 2 games instead of 4 or 5. I think that is reasonable, I've heard that I'm not a fan because of this but in actuality, it's just sacrificing some short-term gratification in favor of the long-term best interests of the team. 2011, week 17, who won between the Colts and Jaguars?

So what's the difference between 1-15 & 4-12 with this team?

This team will win more than 4. JMO but I think we will be a 500 team and it's important that they win this year to keep the guys we have buying into the coaching.

Colts:

2011 - 2-14
2012 - 11-5
2013 - 11-5
2014 - 11-5

It's one hell of an argument.

Also, they were 10-6 in 2010. They tanked. Intentionally.

There is a twitter thing going on I guess that is #tankforcardale or something like that. Not a twitter guy so if I said that wrong, sorry.

No, I don't think it's wise at all to tank. Yes the colts did it and they got Luck. But I don't think they did it on purpose. Remember, Manning was out with Injury. So if they tank and couldn't get Luck, they got a terrific back up plan, keep Manning for as long as he can play.

We do not have any back up plan. none.

Besides, I think Haslam would clean house again if that happened and you could bet that Mack would leave (he may anyway) But this would assure that.

As much as some hate Farmer and even some think Pettine isn't the answer, I just think it's wrong to do the tanking thing

I tend to agree. But i also would be willing to mortgage future draft picks to get the top QB, assuming we end up somewhere in the middle of the pack.

Some people think we tanked the season when we made McCown the starter. (Hey, it worked for Tampa.) I don't want to lose, and I'd never ask a pro to "tank". Besides, they wouldn't do it if they're worth a damn. But if I felt there were an Andrew Luck in the offing - after all the years of losing we've watched - you're damned right I'd start Ken Dorsey's less talented brother every game.

It's gotta be #failforCardale

Is Andrew Luck available?

It's an interesting thought. I happen to think McCown is better than his Tampa season though, and think Pettine and Farmer think so too. I do believe they want to win this year, but we'll see when the scores start coming in.

This isn't Indianapolis. And their ownership has the nads to call out others as cheaters. Tank the season pffft. NO WAY! That's cheating that actually destroys the integrity of the NFL.

Yes they tanked. They could have traded or signed a decent QB and probably had a respectable season. Credit to Bill Polian for being too smart for that and going with Curtis Painter instead, sacrificing an already lost season to set up the next 15 after that.

By the way, did you happen to watch the NBA Finals? Love was hurt, Irving hurt, Shumpert and Smith were abominations, and Mozgov was ineffective vs the Warriors small-ball lineups. Those Warriors were one of the best teams of all-time, and basically cruised through the West playoffs. Lebron and some guys made it a competitive series. Stars also attract other stars in the NBA, so it's not like the effects are just limited to any one game or series.

Everyone knows Luck is probably a once in a generation get. Problem is, we don't have a generation to wait. As I said, my tendency would be to see where we landed in the draft, then mortgage future picks to get a top tier QB. That doesn't change the hypothetical.

Cook, Goff or Cardale, or someone else who steps up this year... at this point, we are practically forced to grab the top guy. How we do it and if we do it remains to be seen.

Between the good possibility we have another losing season (even if we try our hardest not to) and the number of bottom-dweller teams no longer in need of a QB, I think our chances of landing the QB we want in the first (assuming our brain trust even wants that) are pretty good.

Who else could be looking for a QB in the first next draft? Jets? Skins? Bears?

I also believe the Warriors got lucky not having to face the Clippers or the Spurs.

I certainly respect that thinking, and want to believe I feel the same way. But in today's world, where now is all that matters and winning is everything, and a simple "I'm sorry" frees you from all responsibility, it may be fair to ask, so what?

True, but the Warriors would have probably been heavy favorites regardless. That team is really good!

Anyway sorry for the NBA derail. I just thought it was relevant because tanking is more common and recognized there.

Interesting point, but even teams that drafted QBs recently looked to upgrade this year. Titans, Jets, Bills. You never know who might sneak in front to take a guy they covet, or that the teams with the worst records won't take a QB.

The analogy is much appreciated.

NO

To be clear, the Colts didn't tank. They just started Curtis Painter at QB.

Fixed it for you.

IMHO, they did.

Why not?

No.

It's hard to "unlearn" expecting to lose. When we picked at 22, Manziel, Bridgewater, and Carr were all available... let alone our pick at 4/9/8. Manziel actually showed real quarterbacking qualities (appropriate audibles, correct hot reads, being able to throw with accuracy on the move) in that second preseason game. It's unknown whether or not he will fulfill his potential or if his elbow will allow him to.

I haven't given up on Manziel. Even if we see by the end of the season that we need to move on, we won't necessarily have to have the top pick to get a quarterback. Yes, this past year the top two picks were the two best QBs, but I expect that QB stock slingshot to come back down this year when neither TB or TEN make the playoffs, and there are more guys with good potential. Cody Kessler, for example, I believe has the ability to be a good QB and probably won't be a first rounder. There are several other guys in the discussion... Jones, Kessler, Goff... I don't think tanking is the right thing here.

And the Germans didn't tank France in WWII. They just strolled through the French countryside in Panzers.

Great answer.

That could possibly be what's said about the Browns.

The Browns didn't tank. they just started McCown

Depends what your definition of tanking is. The players and coaches most definitely tried to win the games.

You can say that, you can believe that; we'll never really know. But look at the games they played and the losses they "suffered" and the ways they lost to the Jags, the Titans, the Chiefs, the Browns and so on and it becomes suspicious at best.

Could very well be, like I said, I'm not a twitter kinda guy.

The X factor, at least when it comes to Cardale Jones, is that Urban Meyer might very well trot out JT Smith to start this week against Hawaii, or other weeks against certain other teams. If Jones doesn't even start all of OSU's game, does it devalue him on draft boards? To a degree it might, if only to drop him out of the top tier of this (apparently) very talented group of available QB's. The other thing, if we're talking Cardale Jones, is that he's a red-shirt Junior. He'll have another year of eligibility in 2016, and he has previously stated that he wanted to finish school.

GMs tank, coaches and players don't. I support tanking, but good luck trying to get a Lebron James type of player in the NFL draft.

Because its tantamount to cheating and lying and as much of a prick that I am I do not cheat, lie or steal.

Because it sends the wrong message that winning takes precedent over all things and we have enough of that crap in our society in general and sports in particular.

Because I haven't given up on this season, yet and find it incredulous that some are ready to do so before the first whistle has blown... I don't get that.

Because when backed into a corner I was always taught you had two choices to fight or flight... I choose to fight to the bitter end, others want to give up without so much as a whimper that is their choice and I am good with allowing them that.

Are you familiar with the concept of a "treadmill team?" Because you'd be a prime candidate to manage a team like that.

I think our coaching staff should tell the players to tank it and lose every game on purpose.

Why? Because they've been telling them to play well and win for 15 straight years and we have losing seasons. So let's try the opposite.

Was just discussing this at therapy this morning... There were two older Browns fans ..70's plus.. A younger guy.. I would say late 20's and myself 54.

What I found interesting that everyone thought the talent is there and the coaching staff is a good group..

It was...by no surprise the big complaint was the QB..The group consensus seemed okay with losing to get a better shot at a draft pick..But not actually tanking.

I told them there's no good feeling about losing and losing will cause more problems for everyone involved..From Ownership to the fans and the City of Cleveland.Losing cures nothing.

I want to see the team go to a play-off game or two... I want to feel good about winning and not losing Having pride in the team I support with my hard earned money.. I'm not going to pay the money I do to go to the games to expect them to lose.

We can target a player for the 2016 draft and feel tankning for him will increase our winning the season after..

My question for the people at therapy was this... What if we fail for Cardale and Cardale doesn't enter the draft or he gets an injury that will change his game.

I say we play to win.. play for pride ..play for fun play for that ring we are craving to see our players recieve... Play to win because it's my hard earned money that is getting me to the games..

Im not so sure failing to gain is that easy of a thing to do...

I understand at times we will do anything to win... But I will enjoy winning and taking the chance that no matter where we end up in the draft.. That our Luck will eventually land in Cleveland