DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Trade Billy Winn to Colts

Let's look at the line before and after the season.

Out: Rubin, Sheard, Taylor, Kitchen, Winn

In: Starks, Shelton, Cooper, Meder

Back from injury: A Bryant, Hughes (arguably)

I'm not going to speak for others, but here's why I have no problems with the DL:

Rubin and Sheard were not fits in this D. Rubin is bad at NT and Sheard is a 4-3 pass rushing DE.

Taylor looks like he's out for awhile (again) or soon to be out of the league altogether. Kitchen is out of football right now. We drafted Shelton to be the NT and extended a now-healed Hughes who can play NT or DE. Meder looks like a viable backup.

We also now have Starks & Cooper. Starks is a seasoned vet who brings a lot to the group and is still a very good player. Cooper is looking like a very good 3rd round choice. Winn was injured early (again) and guys like Cooper/Meder/Starks made him redundant.

A Bryant is healthy again and looks like he's picked up where he left off.

I liked the DL (when healthy) at the end of last season...I like it better now.

That response - coming from you - is both priceless and validates my intent.

Where did I tell you what you can discuss? Stop making things up and putting words in people's mouths.

The Gilbert pick is looking more and more like a wasted pick, West was a bad pick, Johnny LOOKS like a bad pick so far but he can't be written off yet. Erving is our top backup in his rookie year, it's way, way, way to early to complain about him. 9 million to Bowe who cares we don't pay him out of our pocket and he didn't stop us from spending any other money. Text gate.... stupid, stupid move by Farmer. Cameron did not want to play in Cleveland and is one head knock away from retirement so this can not be blamed on Farmer at all. Unless somebody around here wants to blame Farmer for not being able to bring the sun, sand, and ocean to Cleveland and give him hell for not being God. (Watch somebody will probably do that is we don't win today), and Ben Tate was a stupid move by Farmer as well.

Farmer has made his share of dumb moves, and his share of good moves. IMO we need to be more patient and wait to see if he will end up a good GM or a bad one.

I was blaming Farmer for trying to resign Cameron not for letting him go lol. I thought he was soft and he played like a Fairy not a Brownie lol

Its just starting to stack up against him. I loved this years draft. I liked last years with Manziel, Bitonio and WEst, liked Gilberts athleticism but certain things bothered me with his play. He didnt want to be physical at the line, he wanted to give big cushions and chase.

Overall, its a wait and see with Farmer but Bowe being his big signing certaining isnt helping his case. Hartline however is definitely helping.

This year is a bust anyway. The real battle is whether Pettine can wrestle all the power away from Ray-Ray in JH's eyes. JH trusts neither man right now, but it seems Pettine is winning the real battle on the team to save himself for another year.

Hartline wasn't able to get any separation today. Disappointing.

every year except 2007 and 2002 have been a bust.

actually, the Chiefs just extended his contract another two years (through 2017) a week and a half ago. He tore his ACL in the offseason.

and while we're on the subject, glad we traded Winn for a guy too slow to run the kickoff back to the 20 and completely ineffective at pass protection.

Uhmmmm...........how about this quote from you:



Oh, btw..............good call on how much better the DL is.

very impressive d-line.

yeah they really know how to stuff the run and control the los

I have tried to stay on Farmers side but the wheels seem to coming of his wagon ... JMHO

Browns, Phil Taylor agreed to injury settlement when he was waived

The Cleveland Browns agreed to an injury settlement when they released defensive tackle Phil Taylor. That means both parties agreed it was time for a parting.

Taylor, a first-round draft pick in 2011, agreed to a settlement figure of $966,529, according to ESPN's Roster Management System.

That's far less than the $5.477 million he was guaranteed when the Browns picked up his fifth-year option, and is roughly three games pay.

Teams and players usually agree to injury settlements when a player wants to go to another team, but the team feels he is not healthy enough to play or be released. Thus the two sides work out the terms of the settlement.

The three games pay probably indicates the Browns felt Taylor would be out that long, so they agreed to pay him for those games in exchange for him gaining free agency.

Taylor was trying to come back from knee surgery, and the decision to part ways was made a few days after he played in a preseason game, his first time on the field since last November.

When Taylor was released, he visited the Pittsburgh Steelers, who decided Taylor needed another procedure on his knee and passed on signing him.

That lingering knee problem may have led to the settlement, which is used in lieu of putting the player on injured reserve.

Had Taylor gone on IR, he would not have been able to play for the entire season -- or until he was fully healthy, when he could have been released off IR. The settlement gives him the chance to play again this season and to look for a new team. Taylor also may have thought his playing time would have been reduced in Cleveland with the Browns taking Danny Shelton in the first round of the draft. Taylor earned his freedom for just short of $1 million.

By agreeing to the settlement, the Browns saved roughly $4.5 million in cap room.

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...n-he-was-waived

Sure sounds like a win-win for both sides!

pretty sure after 6 weeks if he is still a FA he could sign back with us?

Let us trust that the bumps in the road get smaller, Pastor...

+1

You know it's bad when PastorMarc gets down. He's always posting positive messages when everyone else is negative Nancy mode. I suppose Cleveland can and will break anyone, lol!

How did Taylor win by making that move? I'm curious.

Wouldn't he have received more money if he didn't agree? Wasn't part of his money guaranteed? I am not being sarcastic. I'm really asking.

Not sure how cutting a first round pick that you traded-up for is a win????

And I don't think Taylor won, but I'm not sure. That is why I was asking for clarification rather than another propaganda reply.

Man, it's like living in a communist country w/all the propaganda from some people. I can't even finish reading those posts.

Will someone please answer my question about Taylor getting more money if had not agreed to the settlement? Please? Oh, and w/out all the propaganda. Thanks.

I'm not sure Vers. Maybe others that are logged on aren't sure either.

well with my basic understanding of settlements and contracts, with the settlement, they avoided having to pay whatever money was guaranteed in his actual contract. so they gave him, and he agreed to, a lump some of money for injury instead of the team not only paying him, but releasing him as well.

just kinda taking a stab at it bro.

Okay. Just asking.

I know that we have quite a few posters on here who have a good working knowledge of contracts, the cap, and all other money issues.

My knowledge in those areas is very limited. I assumed that he would get more money because of guaranteed money, but again, my ignorance on the subject makes me want to ask someone who knows more about contracts so I can get the correct answer.

Browns, Phil Taylor agreed to injury settlement when he was waived

The Cleveland Browns agreed to an injury settlement when they released defensive tackle Phil Taylor. That means both parties agreed it was time for a parting.

Taylor, a first-round draft pick in 2011, agreed to a settlement figure of $966,529, according to ESPN's Roster Management System.

That's far less than the $5.477 million he was guaranteed when the Browns picked up his fifth-year option, and is roughly three games pay.

Teams and players usually agree to injury settlements when a player wants to go to another team, but the team feels he is not healthy enough to play or be released. Thus the two sides work out the terms of the settlement.

The three games pay probably indicates the Browns felt Taylor would be out that long, so they agreed to pay him for those games in exchange for him gaining free agency.

Taylor was trying to come back from knee surgery, and the decision to part ways was made a few days after he played in a preseason game, his first time on the field since last November.

When Taylor was released, he visited the Pittsburgh Steelers, who decided Taylor needed another procedure on his knee and passed on signing him.

That lingering knee problem may have led to the settlement, which is used in lieu of putting the player on injured reserve.

Had Taylor gone on IR, he would not have been able to play for the entire season -- or until he was fully healthy, when he could have been released off IR. The settlement gives him the chance to play again this season and to look for a new team. Taylor also may have thought his playing time would have been reduced in Cleveland with the Browns taking Danny Shelton in the first round of the draft. Taylor earned his freedom for just short of $1 million.

By agreeing to the settlement, the Browns saved roughly $4.5 million in cap room.

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...n-he-was-waived

"$5.477 million he was guaranteed when the Browns picked up his fifth-year option"

well there you go. i guess he thinks he can come back and get on another team.

Thanks play.

When I read the first article about this, I was thinking: man, I bet Taylor regrets making that move... but then the next post said it was a good deal for both sides.

Seeing as how the Steelers didn't sign him because of his knee, I am thinking that Taylor made a huge mistake by agreeing to the settlement.

yea, so we actually won on this occurrence.

sadly though, makes drafting him all the worse.

maybe. or maybe pukesburgh said come back in a month?

He likely would have went to IR and likely not played the full season. Now he least has a chance to latch onto another team if/when his knee heals. Plus, facts are facts, with Danny, Randy and Meder - he knew his role would be cut short to next to nothing. He has a chance to go to another team and be able to fulfill a larger role.

I see those as wins for Phil. Don't you?

JC

It was a gamble on his part for sure.

As stated ... this is his contract year ( maybe his last chance for a big one) and even if on the active roster his playing time was going to be limited.

Sitting on IR or PUP and then getting limited reps is not conducive to getting a big payday... at best he would have gotten a "show me " contract and we all know ( sadly) that PT is not a Show Me kind of guy, we know it first hand don't we.

I think that if he had been healthy he probably would have been traded, ( maybe we could have gotten ANOTHER 7th rounder... yah boy !!),

This is just supposition on my part ... with no evidence whatsoever other than it fits ...... but maybe the Browns examined Taylor after the game he played on, and were talking about putting him back on IR, or even on short term IR .... and he did not want that to happen. He also had to see that he was never going to beat out Shelton for the starting job. So, with no long term prosoects, he asked to be released, and the lure of a long term deal was his incentive to make this kind of move.

I have no evidence ... just putting the pieces together and coming up with a ;possible explanation. It fits, and if the Browns had given up on him anyway, getting out of his contract would be a huge incentive for them.

I actually wrote a post answering your question and then saw that pblack had already responded with a good answer.

Considering the past investment, it's definitely a loss. First round pick (granted from a trade down) that I think a third rounder was burned to get. A miss on Heckert's part for a wide body that got pushed around more than you'd hope for at that slot.

In the now, it was a definite win. Even when healthy, the guy wasn't conditioned well and didn't really make an impact in stopping the run. The best thing you can do in any negotiation is reach "win/win" terms, but win more. That's what we did in ending up paying a fraction of his salary while he got the courtesy of trying his worth on the open market. He should be pissed at his agent for allowing him to go along with it.

I promise I wasn't criticizing you when I questioned you. I promise!!!

I was just confused because I was thinking that Phil just a lot of guaranteed money. However, I wasn't totally sure about that because I am pretty ignorant when it comes to understanding contracts. I had read previously that he had a guaranteed contract. The word guaranteed seems like he would be owed a certain amount of money and I thought it would be more than what he received.

I wasn't trying to slam you. I was more curious than anything.


I do have to add this, though........tab's response really got me to thinking. We have posters on this board that don't really care that we just lost yet another first round draft choice. Another guy who should be making big contributions for us is now giving us nothing.

Instead, they are more concerned w/defending the current front office rather than what is best for the franchise. That is mind-boggling!!!!!

Yeah, it's a great move for Farmer. He saved the Browns money by reaching the settlement w/Taylor. Yeah....let's throw a party and celebrate that the "Browns" just lost another first round draft choice who has to be deemed as yet another bust because it's more important that Farmer looks good rather than the team winning.

lost that pick 5 years ago when we drafted him. first round pick for seventh round talent. the guy was a fine backup/rotation guy but......