There were a few other wrinkles in this one (trading with the Chiefs and Vikings later down the line), but essentially we traded Julio Jones for Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Owen Marecic and Brandon Weeden.
The 4th we received this year was used in the Richardson trade. We used our original 4th on Travis Benjamin.
Discuss.
Too early to tell if it was worth it IMO.
in all honesty, I'll take Jones over all of those guys.
100% dependent on how Weeden turns out.
Still too early to tell but still a trade I'd make any day...
Taylor already was an AVG to above AVG DT his rookie season...if he develops into a GOOD DT it was already a wash, since a GOOD DT > GOOD WR...considering his position and the developmental time it normally takes his play was phenomenal....real bummer to lose him for this season (even if he comes back, I consider it somewhat a wasted season)
Little...well, I screamed for Cobb....we needed a WR body for the outside though, so I understood back then....boom/bust pick back then and it still is...still can go either way, he HAS flashed and disappointed...he hasn't Roddy White across from him though, and no Tony Gonzo too
Marecic...well, I still had some hope for him but sometimes those tough overachiever guys GMs and coaches fall in love with just don't translate....looks like a busted pick...late in the 4th it happens to a lot of GMs
Weeden...1 game...and I just want the "not to lose" armchair GMs to remember that DeCastro looked like dog crap before his IR injury and couldn't even crack the RG job vs a former UDFA...same with M.Adams who's rotting on the bench despite PIT having no OL...so 90% who bashed the Weeden pick back then: go take a looong look in the mirror first....would you lable those other rooks bust too?
Hm.
Julio Jones looks to be on his way to being a top 5 WR.
After last year I thought Greg Little was going to be the key to the trade, as I thought he could be an acceptable replacement, I'm starting to wonder about him.
Phil is a beast, hopefully he doesn't get bit by the injury bug anymore.
I don't think I've ever hated a Browns player that's never REALLy done anything "wrong" as much as Marecic...
If Weeden takes us to the playoffs and plays well, I think the Trade is a win.
I think 4 players for 1 is always a win.
I don't think Jones make a difference on our team at all last season.
This season? Depends on if Weeden learns to hit the broadside of a barn.
I just hated having to give up a 3rd to move up to get Phil.
Sometimes it SEEMS TO ME that Heckert falls in love with a specific guy, and "panics" at the idea of not getting them...
Ask me again in December, and then again in December 2013.
well, if Colt didn't throw deep well enough and Julio's best asset is getting open deep, then how much would he have really helped?
also, good chance we take a DL there anyway (or trade down for one - not as far though).
Aldon Smith, JJ Watt, Nick Fairley, and Robert Quinn were the next DL off the board. Not sure which we would have taken.
As Django put it, and quite correctly at that, is that a good DT> good WR. So if Phil turns into our solid D line paired with Rubin for years and years to come, then it was worth it
plus with Jones in OUR offense, would he look that good? lol
no roddy white, no matt ryan, no gonzo
Quote:
There were a few other wrinkles in this one (trading with the Chiefs and Vikings later down the line), but essentially we traded Julio Jones for Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Owen Marecic and Brandon Weeden.
The 4th we received this year was used in the Richardson trade. We used our original 4th on Travis Benjamin.
Discuss.
I would guess that most of us think that Taylor was a solid pick.. Little could still turn out good, Marecic was a waste and it's way to early to tell on Weeden and Benjamin.
If Taylor and Weeden are the ones that turn out to be solid, then it was probably worth it, if Little turns out good and Benjamin turns out decent. it was worth it.
So beyond that, not sure what else to say.
Lets not go overboard on Julio just yet. He lit up a Romeo Crennel defense last week. Seriously, thats like a division 2 defense that he is sporting in KC right now. Also he is not the guy defenses are designing to beat. Roddy White gets the coverage, Tony Gonzales still draws a lot of attention in the middle.
could julio do that here where he would be the guy everyone is trying to stop? I dont think so.
Now Phil out right now doesnt help my case but man I cant wait until we have that 3 man rotation working with Big PHil, Rubin and Winn. That is a tight interior.
I think that both teams will consider the trade a win, win situation and both teams meet their needs with the trade. (not that Jones would not have also met a need for us).
We simply had more needs and I said before the Draft, that making the switch in the defencive system, that it was imperative that we came away with both a DT and a DE with our first two picks/rounds.
The trade accomplished this for us and also added a WR, QB and in part our RB.
Quote:
Lets not go overboard on Julio just yet. He lit up a Romeo Crennel defense last week. Seriously, thats like a division 2 defense that he is sporting in KC right now.
that was missing their best CB, starting S, probowl DE, and a couple other rotational players.
not to mention that it is just ONE WEEK
Same as with our QB..... ONE WEEK doesn't define you. There is a LOT of football left before any questions can be answered.
For most of them, it's been 17 weeks.
I don't think any definitive conclusions can be made, but I think there's enough tape to form some opinions.
It seems most disagree with you and that the jury is still out.
I agree with this sentiment... Weeden is the x-factor to grading this trade. IMO Taylor and Little are integral to the core were trying to build here, as is Weeden but the success of the team mostly falls on the success of Weeden.
Quote:
100% dependent on how Weeden turns out.
Quote:
I agree with this sentiment... Weeden is the x-factor to grading this trade. IMO Taylor and Little are integral to the core were trying to build here, as is Weeden but the success of the team mostly falls on the success of Weeden.
Quote:
100% dependent on how Weeden turns out.
While that may be true, and I know Im going to get slammed for saying this the Weeden pick is like a free pass. Taylor and Little make up for Jones by themselves.
If Weeden busts out we have lost time yes but the pick was to me a free chance to pick a posible franchise QB. One we would have had to probably trade up to get or not gotten at all. JJ would never put up the numbers here he is there IMHO. So he would be probably be considered a bust by alot of people already.
If Weeden grades out we win hands down if Weeden flames out I still think we did good.
Someone else said it was a win win for both teams.
Quote:
GOOD DT > GOOD WR
I think in the end, it's going to be a question of good DT vs. elite WR.
I like the trade itself, but I'm wary of how we used the capital we gained from it.
I know, I know ... it's too early to tell, but as far as predictions...
I think Taylor will be a good-to-solid DT for us. I wasn't happy burning a third to get him, but if he pans out, I don't think I'll care all that much.
Little is a bit of a wild card. I can see him developing into a decent-to-good #2, and I can see his hands causing him to shuffle around the league as a mediocre #2 who can be a liability.
Marecic will be a bust. I doubt he's in the league within the next two years.
I fully expect Weeden to be a bust. Thought so way before Sunday. I could certainly be wrong there, and he should have a season or three to prove me wrong.
I think Jones will be an elite WR.
I think he would've helped us immensely last year. No, he doesn't puts up the same numbers with us, but he's a good YAC guy on top of his deep threat ability. If we stay committed to the WCO, he would've been a perfect fit, and easily the best WR since our return.
I'm not complaining about the trade. I thought it was the right move at the time, and I still probably make it in hindsight ... it was what our team needed ... but I think in the end, we'll be underwhelmed with the return.
Can;t decide if you are just ignorant or a Troll.
in my mind the real question going forward is what Gordon turns out to be. If he can become anywhere near what JJ becomes I think that also has to be taken into the equation because as you said and I agree he wouldnt have helped us last year and perhaps this year because speculating we dont get Weeden this year.
I cant really speculate on Little he does drop way to many balls for my liking. We had a guy like that we drafted 3rd overall and hes still dropping key balls. At least this time it was a 2nd round pick we are talking about if anything good can be taken from that.
Why do our recievers always hate the Juggs machines.
Quote:
Can;t decide if you are just ignorant or a Troll.
I rarely agree with Phil, but I don't see any trolling or ignorance in this thread.
Quote:
Can;t decide if you are just ignorant or a Troll.
Why don't you share your opinion on this topic?
Quote:
Quote:
Can;t decide if you are just ignorant or a Troll.
I rarely agree with Phil, but I don't see any trolling or ignorance in this thread.
yeah that one really took me by suprise. Its why I ignored it. I found the topic and subject matter sensible, entertaining, and engaging logical thinking. Guess Im a troll too. :shrug:
Quote:
Can;t decide if you are just ignorant or a Troll.
way off base there guy...
I'm still irritated they let Jones slip by them. He's the real deal. Has been since his soph season at AL.
They still could have picked up TR this year. Could have had Weeden in the 2nd round.
So that leaves out Phil Taylor and Mitchell Schwartz and they probably don't draft Little. So far, Huhges and Wynn have shown to be decent and are not THAT far of a drop off from PT. Schwartz has struggled a bit but if we picked up a RT in a later round, I highly doubt he'd be THAT much of a drop off from MSchwartz. Essentially, those are all a borderline wash.
So the real question is...
Is Julio Jones THAT much better than Little or Gordon? Yes, yes he is on his worst day.
We passed on a big time play maker for 2 run of the mill trench guys.
Maybe PT and MS will turn out to be studs. Julio is already a stud. So far, we have lost that trade.
the truth is,the players the Browns drafted in exchange for Julio Jones have had very little impact on the Browns.
since 2007,the Browns are still searching for that game changer at WR.
Quote:
Quote:
Can;t decide if you are just ignorant or a Troll.
way off base there guy...
I agree. Do you even know what a Troll is in net-speak, Dawg Duty?
Or do you actually think he might really live under a bridge and turn to stone in daylight?
Quote:
100% dependent on how Weeden turns out.
Bingo! If Weeden and Taylor work out long term, then it was worth it. If we only get Taylor out of it, then we got duped. Hindsight is always 20/20, however.
Quote:
the truth is,the players the Browns drafted in exchange for Julio Jones have had very little impact on the Browns.
since 2007,the Browns are still searching for that game changer at WR.
?? our starting DT who played well (did taper off the last month) and starting WR that led our WR corps (did have some drops) didn't have an impact? and now are starting QB?
and, again, there is no guarantee we draft Julio there. we were switching from the 3-4 to 4-3 and had no DL to do it. we likely go DL there (and probably Fairley who has been hurt much of his NFL career)
Could have gotten Weeded in the Third Round !
Quote:
I don't think I've ever hated a Browns player that's never REALLy done anything "wrong" as much as Marecic...
You know im glad to hear somebody else say it. I cant see him doing ANYTHING. But he's not bad....just...nothing.
Quote:
Could have had Weeden in the 2nd round.
You don't know that.
Quote:
in all honesty, I'll take Jones over all of those guys.
Whose throwing to him?? 
So Weeden had a horrible first game... still too early to write the book on him.
Little I think will be our #2 receiver by the end of the year. He had a good first year and hopefully will improve this year
TR has potential to be a fantastic back for years to come...if we can get someone to block for him.
Mareick I can do without
in the long run I still do the trade... too many holes to fill... Jones is a great athlete but he doesn't fix this team... If Green was there I think we would have taken Green... but Jones didn't (and doesn't) seem like the can't miss HOFer type talent that Green is...
Quote:
Quote:
in all honesty, I'll take Jones over all of those guys.
Whose throwing to him??
Take Phil and little off of last year's team and add Jones and it might be Griffin .
Quote:
Can;t decide if you are just ignorant or a Troll.
I vote neither. I find PDR to be one of the sharper tools in the shed.
Quote:
yeah that one really took me by suprise. Its why I ignored it. I found the topic and subject matter sensible, entertaining, and engaging logical thinking. Guess Im a troll too. :shrug:
Get back under your bridge.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
in all honesty, I'll take Jones over all of those guys.
Whose throwing to him??
Take Phil and little off of last year's team and add Jones and it might be Griffin .
Or maybe Luck.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
in all honesty, I'll take Jones over all of those guys.
Whose throwing to him??
Take Phil and little off of last year's team and add Jones and it might be Griffin .
Or maybe Luck.
Probably would have won the same amount of games last year. Only difference is Colt would have lead JJ into Harrison a few to many times.
I agree though, if not Atlanta we were taking offers because we were going to draft defense no matter what, much like washington this year, ATL's was the best so we took it.
Quote:
Quote:
Can;t decide if you are just ignorant or a Troll.
I rarely agree with Phil, but I don't see any trolling or ignorance in this thread.
Thats the same comment he sent to me on a political thread. I* should have mentioned that and it would make more sense. Phil does that to me.
I can see the argument for going defense at 5, but Heckert does have a history of going aBPA, and I think the BPA was Jones.
Quote:
I can see the argument for going defense at 5, but Heckert does have a history of going aBPA, and I think the BPA was Jones.
I agree not saying he wouldnt have picked him. Much of what he said would back up the fact he would have selected him such as "the offer was just to much to pass up."
I think much like Savage was with Edwards he was looking to get out of that pick and found a taker and perhaps had more then a few, creating a bidding war?
We will never know until he writes his book. "My time as a GM in the NFL" 
Quote:
I can see the argument for going defense at 5, but Heckert does have a history of going aBPA, and I think the BPA was Jones.
well, if we are playing hindsight, then the BPA was JJ Watt. clevesteve nailed that one.
Quote:
Quote:
I can see the argument for going defense at 5, but Heckert does have a history of going aBPA, and I think the BPA was Jones.
well, if we are playing hindsight, then the BPA was JJ Watt. clevesteve nailed that one.
I guess it's opinion, but Jones is BPA over Watt ten times out of ten for me.
Hindsight says Clay Mathews Jr doesn't go 4th round to Green bay.
I don't think Weeden would have been available in the 2nd round.
The Julio Jones trade, getting Phil Taylor and Greg Little is a + for the Browns so it was definetly a trade the Browns won on.
Phil Taylor, when he comes back is going to be a beast, because he is.
Little may still pan out More than Julio.
There is nothing wrong with Marecic that some coaching and focus can't fix.
Browns will just have to go forward with the team they have.
Clay went 26th overall in the 1st to the Packers. Perhaps you were mistaking him with his little brother Casey, who was drafted in the 4th by the eagles last year.
Quote:
Little may still pan out More than Julio.
I don't think he'll be as good as Julio but he doens't need to be for the trade to be a + for the Browns... I think he'll have a good year once Weeden gets things under control. I see him being our #2 in the future... but a very solid #2...
J/C
Just a fun little stat that proves absolutely nothing.
Week 2:
Jones - 14 rec yds & 3 drops.
Plyrs acquired with picks obtained by CLE - 322 pass yds, 57 rec yds, 21 rush yds, 2 TDs
lol thank you for that. made me feel a little better.
In fairness, didn't little and marecic both drop a pass as well?
Did they? I don't recall honestly and I just checked on a couple sites and drops weren't listed. I just remember JJ cause it was just last night.
I was reading the political thread before posting that. Apparently the 'leaving out facts that do not support my argument' technique rubbed off on me a little bit.
it'd still be 2 drops by a multitude of players vs. 3 drops by 1 player. Our side still wins
Quote:
100% dependent on how Weeden turns out.
Totally agree. If Weeden pans out I don't care what all the little draftniks think of Julio jones.
Quote:
Quote:
100% dependent on how Weeden turns out.
Totally agree. If Weeden pans out I don't care what all the little draftniks think of Julio jones.
If ATL wins the Super Bowl in the next few years, and say Jones is the MVP (It would be Ryan, but bare with me) Then the announcers will talk about how ATL traded up for him, not about how we "gave him up" or whatever.
The flip side of that, is if Weeden leads us to a SB? Does anyone in the National media even mention the 22nd pick we got from ATL? Or is it glossed over?
Reasons I don't watch ESPN anymore.
My guess is that if the browns became worth talking about, ESPN would talk about them more.
Quote:
My guess is that if the browns became worth talking about, ESPN would talk about them more.
It's not even that, it's they way they highlight games.
If you watched the Highlights of Cle/Cin but didn't know the score, you'd think Andy Dalton was the best QB ever and Cincy blew us out.
I hate highlight shows, I like recap shows, which actually tell you the storyline of the game, not show plays and talk about the winning team. Because who won isn't always all that matters.
they showed highlights of the Browns/Bengals on ESPN? I never saw any. Only the top 10 where TRich got #1 and Pacman got #3...
I watched ESPN all day yesterday and the only highlights of games I saw were the Giants/Bucs, Steelers/Jets, Eagles/Ravens, and New England/Arizona...Did anyone else play Sunday?
I think those were the only games...I think Andrew Luck played too, but thats it, oh and RGIII, Idk who they played, i only know they won and were amazing...
Quote:
Quote:
My guess is that if the browns became worth talking about, ESPN would talk about them more.
It's not even that, it's they way they highlight games.
If you watched the Highlights of Cle/Cin but didn't know the score, you'd think Andy Dalton was the best QB ever and Cincy blew us out.
I hate highlight shows, I like recap shows, which actually tell you the storyline of the game, not show plays and talk about the winning team. Because who won isn't always all that matters.
Umm winning isn't all that matters. 
Anyway I do get what your saying. Just had to have some fun with that.
I too hardly watch the highlight shows for the same reasons.
That and we dont ususally have many highlights to begin with. Spend an hour waiting for a 20sec clip of the other team.
If ATL wins the SB and Jones wins the MVP I could see them talking about how he came to them in a trade with us.
If we won a SB and Weeden is the MVP. They will talk about how Heckert drafted him and perhaps that we got the pick from Atl but not likely because that would be at least a few more years down the road for us.
Now when we play Atlanta in the Super Bowl THIS year...
New tee shirt idea :
Front : "We <3 hypotheticals!"
Back : "www.dawgtalkers.net"
Quote:
Now when we play Atlanta in the Super Bowl THIS year...
ESPN would talk about Pittsburgh having trained Haslam and show hours of Pittsburgh highlights. Then talk about how great ATL is with Jones.
Love your thinking though!
Quote:
The flip side of that, is if Weeden leads us to a SB? Does anyone in the National media even mention the 22nd pick we got from ATL? Or is it glossed over?
If Weeden leads us to the super bowl, they can say whatever in the heck they want... I won't really care.
Why is this stuff important, to rehash the history of the draft and which trades led to which picks when discussing players? I don't remember them harping on how Eli ended up with the Giants when he was winning super bowls... It was a story that was in the news for a while after it happened, then archived under "Who gives a crap"...