What is the Haslam - Banner connection exactly?
I think I read that the league put them together. I have no idea what this means. Apparently, the league liked Haslam and wanted him to be an owner. I've also read that the league liked Banner and helped him connect with Haslam. Didn't we originally read that Banner was going to be a part of the ownership team with Haslam? I thought that was the first rumor. Then he's brought in as part of the leadership team and Haslam ... who is supposedly a smart business man ... gives him uber control.
What the hell is going on here? What is the connection? Why have Haslam and Banner united and why does Banner have all this control over something that is essentially Haslam's.
Imagine Haslam coming in and waiting to fill Banner's spot. He might be inclined to just leave things the way they are. Now I feel Banner is in his ear and I've just got a sick feeling about how all this is going to play out in a few weeks.
I think there's a chance that Haslam calls Banner and Heckert into a room and says how can we make this work and Heckert tells him to go pound sand. He's worked too long and too hard to get to where he is, his rep is super high in the league right now, why should he relinquish any control. I would if I was him.
But to me this all goes back to the Haslam - Banner connection. What is it? Why is Banner here exactly?
I just know it has to be better than anything Bob LaMonte related.
There was a thread on this some while back and I'm not sure if anyone actually figured out any direct connection before the purchase. I would really like to know myself.
There I go with another smiley!
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I just know it has to be better than anything Bob LaMonte related.
like Heckert? 
They are both friends with someone who knows someone who met Kevin Bacon.
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They are both friends with someone who knows someone who met Kevin Bacon.
So we are allowed to dance now??? 
You can if you want, but since they used a dance double, you really should hire someone to dance for you.
It's a great question. One that needs to be investigated and written by one of those gumshoes in the local media.
As an aside...for years I railed against Randy Lerner and his absenteeism et al.
Now we have an engaged owner. And we're winning and there's a decidedly different culture.
Funny how that works isn't it?
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Now we have an engaged owner. And we're winning and there's a decidedly different culture.
Funny how that works isn't it?
Since the only real movement on this team has been the hiring of Banner thus far, I feel the jury on "how that works" is a very long way from being seen.
Since it's the same roster with the same coaching staff and same GM, is this simply a bi-product of what was built and established up to this point? Or is it simply the fact someone bought the team and hired one guy in the chain of command?
Hmmmmm......
" Now we have and engaged owner and are winning because of it".
Hmm? I chalk it up to other things paying dividends.
Childress was named offensive coordinator.
Nolan Cromwell was signed as offensive assistant.
Brandon Weeden was drafted.
Trent Richardson was drafted.
All 4 of those are new this season.
Oh and the scouting department was overhauled about 2 years ago.
Oh yeah, and Shwartz isn't getting beat as much as Pashos, who may have played through injury.
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It's a great question. One that needs to be investigated and written by one of those gumshoes in the local media.
As an aside...for years I railed against Randy Lerner and his absenteeism et al.
Now we have an engaged owner. And we're winning and there's a decidedly different culture.
Funny how that works isn't it?
I wonder if big Mike H being gone has something to do with it also.
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It's a great question. One that needs to be investigated and written by one of those gumshoes in the local media.
As an aside...for years I railed against Randy Lerner and his absenteeism et al.
Now we have an engaged owner. And we're winning and there's a decidedly different culture.
Funny how that works isn't it?
I wonder if big Mike H being gone has something to do with it also.
Don't see why it would have anything to do with us winning after he left.
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It's a great question. One that needs to be investigated and written by one of those gumshoes in the local media.
As an aside...for years I railed against Randy Lerner and his absenteeism et al.
Now we have an engaged owner. And we're winning and there's a decidedly different culture.
Funny how that works isn't it?
I wonder if big Mike H being gone has something to do with it also.
Don't see why it would have anything to do with us winning after he left.
WOIO's Fifth Quarter crew threw out the speculation that perhaps Holmgren was micro-managing the offense.
I don't know how much stock I'd put into that at all, but the timing is strangely coincidental that as soon as Holmgren becomes personae non gratae, the offense begins to fire on a few more cylinders.
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It's a great question. One that needs to be investigated and written by one of those gumshoes in the local media.
As an aside...for years I railed against Randy Lerner and his absenteeism et al.
Now we have an engaged owner. And we're winning and there's a decidedly different culture.
Funny how that works isn't it?
I wonder if big Mike H being gone has something to do with it also.
Don't see why it would have anything to do with us winning after he left.
WOIO's Fifth Quarter crew threw out the speculation that perhaps Holmgren was micro-managing the offense.
I don't know how much stock I'd put into that at all, but the timing is strangely coincidental that as soon as Holmgren becomes personae non gratae, the offense begins to fire on a few more cylinders.
Dustin Fox was saying this the minute that Holmgren was fired as president. Something along the lines of every time Shurmur would get too far outside the box with the gameplan, Homie would step in and reel everybody in.
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It's a great question. One that needs to be investigated and written by one of those gumshoes in the local media.
As an aside...for years I railed against Randy Lerner and his absenteeism et al.
Now we have an engaged owner. And we're winning and there's a decidedly different culture.
Funny how that works isn't it?
I wonder if big Mike H being gone has something to do with it also.
Don't see why it would have anything to do with us winning after he left.
WOIO's Fifth Quarter crew threw out the speculation that perhaps Holmgren was micro-managing the offense.
I don't know how much stock I'd put into that at all, but the timing is strangely coincidental that as soon as Holmgren becomes personae non gratae, the offense begins to fire on a few more cylinders.
Dustin Fox was saying this the minute that Holmgren was fired as president. Something along the lines of every time Shurmur would get too far outside the box with the gameplan, Homie would step in and reel everybody in.
I don't know who Dustin Fox is or what credibility he holds, but if there is any truth at all to this, then I'm quite glad that Holmgren is gone.
I will say one thing - we used the Wildcat this week. I distinctly recall hearing when Holmgren came in that the Wildcat was dead in Cleveland.
Maybe there's something to it?
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I don't know who Dustin Fox is or what credibility he holds, but if there is any truth at all to this, then I'm quite glad that Holmgren is gone.
I will say one thing - we used the Wildcat this week. I distinctly recall hearing when Holmgren came in that the Wildcat was dead in Cleveland.
Maybe there's something to it?
Radio host on 92.3 in Cleveland, former OSU and NFL safety. He's played in the league and has some pretty good ties with players. He seems to be right a lot more then he's not.
more info
I heard the announcer say something about the wildcat. I looked up at the TV because I didnt believe him...lol
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I heard the announcer say something about the wildcat. I looked up at the TV because I didnt believe him...lol
I had the same reaction! I was like "what?!!?".
@Flap - And now that you say former player, I remember him from his time playing.
j/c
The funny thing is, I haven't really seen the playbook opened up or our O being allowed to play the passing game with the lead until the past few weeks.
It's something I have wanted to see. But when Holmgren left, it didn't just magicly start happening. I think that if people wish to look for the reason for a somewhat change in direction, it's more about people wishing to save their jobs with a new owner rather than anyone departing.
But I'm not surprised that the media is looking for a scapegoat. What people seem to be forgetting is that it was Holmgren that hired Heckert and Co. that bulit what we are seeing now. Not Haslam or Banner.
I think he helped build a very solid foundation for possible greatness and now is somehow being blamed why such a young team was not cut loose to play sooner.
I believe they are just now ready and experienced enough to open up the playbook more and if Holmgren were still here, it wouldn't be any different. But somehow everyone seems to be getting the credit for what we see but him.....
JMHO
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I believe they are just now ready and experienced enough to open up the playbook more
This is my main belief as well..... the guys are just finally developing.
However, the timing is very coincidental. His last day was Friday, Nov 30th. We've just seen it opening up the last couple of weeks.... the only couple of weeks that he hasn't been here. Reading too much into it? Perhaps. Perhaps not.
Yes, he brought in the people that were here, but I can very easily see him as the kind of person that meddled too deeply in the game planning and game day stuff for what his position was.
My only real fear is that Heckert is gone. I can't see anyone else on the horizon that would do a better job then he has.
I admit, my view of the horizon from the cheap seats isn't nearly as large a view as that of Banner and Haslam. but when nobody jumps to mind, it's a scary thought.
I thought I read somewhere that Haslam was none too happy with the way Holmgren was chumming it up with Jerry Jones before the Cowboy game ...that whole fraternizing with the enemy thing. He didn't like the appearance of it.
Coincidentally Holmgren "decided" to move on early after that.
There is no doubt that I can not say with any certainty who is right or wrong on this point.
But the only factual thing I know Holmgren meddled in was the Colt McCoy pick. As far as I know, everything else has been nothing more than pure speculation. Is that speculation correct? I believe that is anybody's guess actually.
I have also witnessed first hand someone buying out a company (although the Browns are on a much larger scale) and firing the top dog. At that point I saw people scramble in order to do anything to save their job.
So I see more than one possibility.....
1. Shurmer is at the point he's willing to do anything and knew if he continued on the path he was taking, he would be sure to lose his job. So at that point, he openned things up.
2. Holmgren could have been meddling.
3. The new regime instructed him to open things up in order to better evaluate the talent we do/don't have on O. After all, the new regime made it plain they would be evaluating everyone and if you don't open up your O, it makes it much harder to evaluate.
I feel all of these scenarios are entirely possible and hold some merrit as to such possibilities and I really don't feel that anyone can say definitively which scenario is correct.
Including me.....
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I thought I read somewhere that Haslam was none too happy with the way Holmgren was chumming it up with Jerry Jones before the Cowboy game ...that whole fraternizing with the enemy thing. He didn't like the appearance of it.
Coincidentally Holmgren "decided" to move on early after that.
Since Haslam already made him a dead man walking, I doubt Holmgren really gave a damn what Haslam thought about it and if I were in Holmgrens shoes I wouldn't either.
Holmgren had essentialy already been fired/replaced. Why does Haslam feel he has the right to replace someone and then expect an appearance of loyalty from them? If what you are saying is true in regards to Haslams feelings on the matter it makes him look rather foolish IMO
I agree completely on all counts.
IF Holmgren was meddling/"advising" during the games, we likely won't hear anything concrete until some player leaves the team/retires.
One last option is simply that the level of competition has dropped off, so we're able to do more. We may see us looking like we did in the coming weeks. Too soon to tell on any count.
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I thought I read somewhere that Haslam was none too happy with the way Holmgren was chumming it up with Jerry Jones before the Cowboy game ...that whole fraternizing with the enemy thing. He didn't like the appearance of it.
Coincidentally Holmgren "decided" to move on early after that.
Since Haslam already made him a dead man walking, I doubt Holmgren really gave a damn what Haslam thought about it and if I were in Holmgrens shoes I wouldn't either.
Holmgren had essentialy already been fired/replaced. Why does Haslam feel he has the right to replace someone and then expect an appearance of loyalty from them? If what you are saying is true in regards to Haslams feelings on the matter it makes him look rather foolish IMO
I don't disagree with any of that. I was just relaying what I had read.
And if you think that made Haslam look foolish ... hold onto your seat ... more is coming ... 
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However, the timing is very coincidental. His last day was Friday, Nov 30th. We've just seen it opening up the last couple of weeks.... the only couple of weeks that he hasn't been here. Reading too much into it? Perhaps. Perhaps not.
My comment is less specific and more general.
I've been vocal about my dislike of Holmgren. Most of it stems from his micro-managerial style. We know for a fact he's done it because of his hand in the drafts in spite of that aspect supposedly being Heckert's.
So let's use a little common sense here: Anyone who has ever known a micro-manager...have you ever known that person to just micro-manage one singular aspect of his operation?
No, you haven't. I certainly haven't.
I'm not saying that Holmgren being fired opened up the reigns on Shurmur. What I am saying is that it would be naive to believe that the only place Holmgren micro-managed was for a few brief moments during the draft.
To me, he only did a couple of good things here. One was to bring in Heckert, and the other was to bring in the WCO. Beyond that? He got huge dollars to sit in the chair in front of the camera, and he did that rather poorly. Musta been nice riding around on his trike, cashing all those huge checks from Lerner while keeping bankers-hours.
Since he's been gone, has anyone from the top of the organization on down to the players noted that he's being missed?
I'm not sensing that Holmgren leaving is being met with any tears inside of Berea...
JC ...
I'm going to go ahead and pose this question here.
Say Heckert and Shurmur are shown the door. What would it take to make you stick around? What coach/GM combo will leave you feeling satisfied or intrigued?
I never, ever thought I would say this because I thought he would be ...and did become ...an utter failure in Denver, but I'm intrigued by Josh McDaniels ... and his name is being thrown out there as a possiblity. Could a second gig for McDaniels be our Bellyache?
The reason I'm intrigued is because I think he would get the most out of Weeden and our offense, in general. He's young, still has room to grow, and has failed experiences to draw from. Bellyache opened him back with open arms ... even after he showed him up in that Den-Pats game ... and all Bellyache cares about is winning so I think that says something.
I could get on board with McDaniels as coach ... if Heckert stays as well. To me, that's an intriguing combination and will probably keep me tuned in.
If Heckert is shown the door, I really have no idea who would get me excited to take his spot.
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JC ...
I'm going to go ahead and pose this question here.
Say Heckert and Shurmur are shown the door. What would it take to make you stick around? What coach/GM combo will leave you feeling satisfied or intrigued?
GM? Nobody. There is not one single name that you could throw out there that would interest me.
Coach? Bellichick. Cowher. Dungy.
In other words - nothing would get me to buy into a blow up.
I'm just wondering how many of us will actually be able to walk away. I'm talking a big game, but I love this team so much ... I don't know if I could actually tune out. Maybe I'm underestimating myself.
So I think I'm trying to prepare myself for what I feel is the inevitable ... at a minimum Shurmur is gone and most likely both him and Heckert.
I hope it doesn't happen, but if I were a gambling man that's where my money would be.
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I'm just wondering how many of us will actually be able to walk away. I'm talking a big game, but I love this team so much ... I don't know if I could actually tune out. Maybe I'm underestimating myself.
That's exactly what I thought too... until we beat Pittsburgh. When that game ended, I didn't feel over-joyed or giddy. I thought to myself, "well, that is nice" and went upon my day. We just beat our rival, who has made a decade of kick the tar out of us, and it was "nice".
Don't get me wrong, I still pay for the direct TV ticket, put on my jersey and plop down on the couch every sunday, but I feel like i'm getting closer to that edge of not caring. And honestly, I think a lot of it has to do with all this talk of blowing it up because Banner didn't hire the guys.
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I'm just wondering how many of us will actually be able to walk away. I'm talking a big game, but I love this team so much ... I don't know if I could actually tune out. Maybe I'm underestimating myself.
So I think I'm trying to prepare myself for what I feel is the inevitable ... at a minimum Shurmur is gone and most likely both him and Heckert.
I hope it doesn't happen, but if I were a gambling man that's where my money would be.
Ive tried (and of course was forced to) but no matter who I cheer my heart was always in Cleveland with the Browns.
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I'm just wondering how many of us will actually be able to walk away. I'm talking a big game, but I love this team so much ... I don't know if I could actually tune out. Maybe I'm underestimating myself.
So I think I'm trying to prepare myself for what I feel is the inevitable ... at a minimum Shurmur is gone and most likely both him and Heckert.
I hope it doesn't happen, but if I were a gambling man that's where my money would be.
I won't have a problem.
We need to just relax. I really see no 'where there's smoke...' type rumors out there. The media can write whatever they want w nothing to back it up.
I still have faith Heckert could stay.
I THINK I'd give Shurmur another year at this point but I think one would have to be crazy to actually be surprised if they can him.
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I'm just wondering how many of us will actually be able to walk away. I'm talking a big game, but I love this team so much ... I don't know if I could actually tune out. Maybe I'm underestimating myself.
So I think I'm trying to prepare myself for what I feel is the inevitable ... at a minimum Shurmur is gone and most likely both him and Heckert.
I hope it doesn't happen, but if I were a gambling man that's where my money would be.
I won't have a problem.
I really don't care all that much at this point. If they blow up the team and hire Lombardi I'll probably find something better to do with my football season. It's been long enough and I'm tired of these halfway football teams.
j/c
Call me crazy - but the Browns are my team - have been since I can remember watching football. (39 years or so)
Only time I haven't watched them on Sundays (aside from the occassional glitch in my schedule) was when we didn't have a team. I also didn't watch any regular season games in those 3 years. I did tune in for a playoff game or 2, and of course, the super bowl - but I had no interest in the other teams.
I am a Browns fan - come hell or high water - I watch the Browns. Heck, as it is, I watch the Browns now - I don't watch other games, other than a quarter here or there. Monday night games? I don't care. Sunday late games? I don't care.....
I watch the Browns, that's it. If they blow it up and start over, I'll be watching the Browns.
Now, with that said, I may not pay to attend any games. I may curtail or simply cut off my Browns purchases. But I guarantee, I will NOT quit following the Browns because of some front office decisions, or some player decisions. Guess it's just me - that's how I am. The Browns are MY team.
I'm with you Arch... For better or worse, I was born a Browns fan and will always watch them. However, I'm just now starting to feel good about this team again and, as a season ticket holder, that's a pretty big deal for me. I waited until, literally, the last minute to renew THIS season. If Jimmy-Joe blows this thing up, I might just save my money and buy a nicer HD TV for next season.
I view it as tough love.
If I had a son with a drinking problem, I wouldn't keeping buying his line of crap endlessly when he tells me "this time, this time it'll be different!"... no matter how much I care for him.
I see this as no different.
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I view it as tough love.
If I had a son with a drinking problem, I wouldn't keeping buying his line of crap endlessly when he tells me "this time, this time it'll be different!"... no matter how much I care for him.
I see this as no different.
In that scenario - would you give up on your son and adopt another son? Or would you keep on rooting for, and pulling for your son?
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I view it as tough love.
If I had a son with a drinking problem, I wouldn't keeping buying his line of crap endlessly when he tells me "this time, this time it'll be different!"... no matter how much I care for him.
I see this as no different.
In that scenario - would you give up on your son and adopt another son? Or would you keep on rooting for, and pulling for your son?
But it's just a football team. I've been a Browns' fan for as long as I can remember. And for far too many of those years they've been a disappointment to me. Yet I keep coming back. Next time, it'll be different, that's what I keep telling myself. After a while you just get tired of it. At this point I can pretty much walk away from NFL football and my life will go on. The Cleveland Browns made me that way.
I'm excited about the team and it's direction. I'm hopeful that Haslam isn't some kind of filthy rich buffoon who wastes ten years trying to fix what isn't really all that broken right now. I just don't have the energy to sit and watch another rebuild. Especially when I don't believe it's warranted. My best guess is he's smart enough to recognize he bought a team that is on it's way to contention.
I'll be even more excited after we beat Washington to make it four in a row.
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I view it as tough love.
If I had a son with a drinking problem, I wouldn't keeping buying his line of crap endlessly when he tells me "this time, this time it'll be different!"... no matter how much I care for him.
I see this as no different.
In that scenario - would you give up on your son and adopt another son? Or would you keep on rooting for, and pulling for your son?
Oh, I'd keep my son, but I'd absolutely stop enabling him by no longer buying into his lines of BS and wait for him to SHOW ME that he's different, that he has turned himself around, and that he has EARNED my support. Depending upon how wrecked up he is, that could well (easily) mean that he'd no longer be welcome in my house, even for short visits.
Affection and support cannot be taken for granted.... no matter how thick blood is.
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...I may not pay to attend any games. I may curtail or simply cut off my Browns purchases. But I guarantee, I will NOT quit following the Browns because of some front office decisions, or some player decisions. Guess it's just me - that's how I am. The Browns are MY team.
+1
If I haven't quit yet, why would I quit now?
I'm of the mindset that nothing can be worse than the last 12 years of crap I've put up with. I still go crazy and yell when the Browns make a good play. That will never change.
Hey Arch, I agree. I've been a Browns Fan since '67. And I think sometimes "Well if they blow it up, then I'm done, But I don't think I can. I mean It seems to me that I was always happy, win or lose, thru all the years, Now since we've been back, and I have a computer and started following everything, I sometimes feel like I was happier when I was just reading about the Browns in the paper. I mean I knew who the coach was and all the starters and even some of the back-ups. But now it's like you know EVERYTHING. Which I don't think is such a good thing. It seems I was content just watching us play and rooting for the Team. Now it's like we know everything about not just the players but the FO to. Maybe cause I'm older now, but it does seem to me that yesteryears was a whole lot simpler. Wish I could go back to just enjoying the Browns and not think about all the FO or even who owns 'em. Just Go Browns!
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I'm of the mindset that nothing can be worse than the last 12 years of crap I've put up with. I still go crazy and yell when the Browns make a good play. That will never change.
Don't put that challenge out there into the eather or Vick will be playing QB for us with Tebow as a back up, Lombardi acting as GM (god his drafts were Kokonis bad), and Chip Kelly trying to turn us into a college team. 
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I view it as tough love.
If I had a son with a drinking problem, I wouldn't keeping buying his line of crap endlessly when he tells me "this time, this time it'll be different!"... no matter how much I care for him.
I see this as no different.
In that scenario - would you give up on your son and adopt another son? Or would you keep on rooting for, and pulling for your son?
Oh, I'd keep my son, but I'd absolutely stop enabling him by no longer buying into his lines of BS and wait for him to SHOW ME that he's different, that he has turned himself around, and that he has EARNED my support. Depending upon how wrecked up he is, that could well (easily) mean that he'd no longer be welcome in my house, even for short visits.
Affection and support cannot be taken for granted.... no matter how thick blood is.
So you'd be a bandwagon parent.
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I view it as tough love.
If I had a son with a drinking problem, I wouldn't keeping buying his line of crap endlessly when he tells me "this time, this time it'll be different!"... no matter how much I care for him.
I see this as no different.
In that scenario - would you give up on your son and adopt another son? Or would you keep on rooting for, and pulling for your son?
Oh, I'd keep my son, but I'd absolutely stop enabling him by no longer buying into his lines of BS and wait for him to SHOW ME that he's different, that he has turned himself around, and that he has EARNED my support. Depending upon how wrecked up he is, that could well (easily) mean that he'd no longer be welcome in my house, even for short visits.
Affection and support cannot be taken for granted.... no matter how thick blood is.
So you'd be a bandwagon parent.
If you want to call me that, fine. I don't care.
I tend to view it as a parent that won't take crap from his kid and expects him to grow up and stop being a douche.
normally im one of the people to say step away from the ledge but in this case I agree. Ive seen this team go down this path more then once and the last time Ive seen us with a team and coach that had it all together.......we moved the team.
This is really my last go round if Banner does what I think hes going to do, the Browns wont get 1 more cent of my money.
It's not about kids.
It's about being there and watching the team become a champion.
But if you want to ignore it until there good. And then come in and celebrate when they're good. That's cool...
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j/c
Call me crazy - but the Browns are my team - have been since I can remember watching football. (39 years or so)
Only time I haven't watched them on Sundays (aside from the occassional glitch in my schedule) was when we didn't have a team. I also didn't watch any regular season games in those 3 years. I did tune in for a playoff game or 2, and of course, the super bowl - but I had no interest in the other teams.
I am a Browns fan - come hell or high water - I watch the Browns. Heck, as it is, I watch the Browns now - I don't watch other games, other than a quarter here or there. Monday night games? I don't care. Sunday late games? I don't care.....
I watch the Browns, that's it. If they blow it up and start over, I'll be watching the Browns.
Now, with that said, I may not pay to attend any games. I may curtail or simply cut off my Browns purchases. But I guarantee, I will NOT quit following the Browns because of some front office decisions, or some player decisions. Guess it's just me - that's how I am. The Browns are MY team.
+1
The only caveat is that I really like Heckert and do not want to the Browns to lose him. I could care less about Shurmur (who has been better recently but is still below average). The one thing is nice is that the Browns should be an attractive place to coach because of the youth. Regardless like you Arch I will always root for the Browns.
Edit: I want to add I think the Vick hate is misguided if you want to argue he may not be an upgrade that's fine but this whole dog killing thing should be over with. He paid his debts to society, has done charity work, and seems to have turned his life around. It's irrational to to continue to hate this guy when this team had a person who killed someone on the team.
I think I kind of see both you and Arches viewpoint.
Maybe people would call me a fence straddler on this, but I think I would be a combination of both of your views to some extent.
Take this year..... I went to one pre-season game with my grandson. I probably spendt $300.00 to $400.00 on Browns gear on myself and as gifts.
Now if such a blow up happens, I have enough Browns gear to last at least one decade if I wore Browns gear every day!
I went to my first Browns game 48 years ago. I could never root for or be the fan of any other NFL team and I do love the sport.
So while I would still be a Browns fan, root for the Browns and wear the colors, I would no longer financialy support this team. I liken that to having such a son as you both described, loving him, rooting for him to do well, but not enabling him with anything monitary.
Haslam bought the Browns as an investment and the only real way to send him a message is through your $$$$.
I mean Art Modell fired Paul Brown and I remained a fan. Testicleverdi was brought in and Bernie sent packing. Art moved the team. I've lived through a lot while being a Browns fan.
But I actually root for the "team". The guys on the field. The players brought in to represent the Browns. And none of what Art did was the fault of the players. Just like nothing Haslam/Banner would do would be the fault of the players.
So that would be my personal solution. Be there in spirit, but not in wallet.
And just to throw out a conspiracy theory........
What if they purposely want to PO the fan base into turning their backs on this team to give them the perfect excuse to move to L.A.?
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I view it as tough love.
If I had a son with a drinking problem, I wouldn't keeping buying his line of crap endlessly when he tells me "this time, this time it'll be different!"... no matter how much I care for him.
I see this as no different.
In that scenario - would you give up on your son and adopt another son? Or would you keep on rooting for, and pulling for your son?
You never give up or stop rooting for your son... but at some point, you stop supporting the bad habit, believing the lie of 'this time it will be better', and being an enabler....
Can you honestly say you've never felt like that about the Browns? I've been a Browns fan for close to 40 years and I've bought countless jerseys, coats, hats, etc. I've been to quite a few games, though not as many as most people who live close, I've paid for the ticket, I've left my family for 4 hours many Sundays to go to a remote bar to watch when I didn't have the ticket... and for what? A bunch of rich men are getting richer off of my money and I get what in return exactly? For close to 2 decades I get a couple months of unwarranted optimism followed by 10 months of ice cold reality pretty much every year...
We all have our own perspective, those who live closer to Cleveland have a perspective, those of us who live in other markets have different perspectives. I'm not surrounded by Browns fans, I live in an area that has seen tremendous influx of people over the last decade from all over, I'm surrounded by Steeler fans and Patriot fans and Cowboy fans and Redskin fans and Giants fans and Bears fans... and I'm sort of tired of wearing a Browns hat or sweatshirt and being met with laughs, smirks or outright sympathy from fans of almost every other NFL team... teams that have actually won something or at least competed to win something in the last 20 years...
We are on the verge of being pretty good, I believe.... and if we blow it up in the name of satisfying a couple egos, then I'm not sure I want to give another dime or another moment of my time to watch them try to rebuild something that wasn't broken in the first place...
I'll never root for anybody else, that's not even a consideration... I'll just consider myself a much less interested Browns fan.... and if they actually do get good, it's hard to say whether I will regain the passion that I've carried for so long, I guess I might try.... and if that makes me a bandwagon jumper or a fair weather fan, then so be it.
I've just been a Browns fan for so long (I'm 40, so it's well over 30 years) that I can't imagine NOT being a Browns fan. I'd never root for another team, but my interest might wane as well. In the end, it's the Browns or nothing for me, and so far they haven't pushed me to nothing. (Of course with the exception of when satan moved the team to Balt.) It's the only time in my life that I didn't have a favorite team to root for, and it just didn't feel right.
If McDaniels wants to switch the defense to a 3-4 there is NO WAY I want him here. You do not mess with things when they are working.. That seems like a pretty simple rule that gets disobeyed sometimes in the NFL. We need to keep Jauron on board at all costs.
I hear everyone starting to talk about Saban making the jump once again to the NFL and I am a bit intrigued by that thought for the same reasons you are with Josh MacDaniels. Although at the end of the day I would rather keep Heckert and hire another coach if that is what we must do.Saban would probably want control of the 53 man roster which is what Banner would seem to prefer. Would that not make the GM, whoever it is, pretty much irrelevant?
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I hear everyone starting to talk about Saban making the jump once again to the NFL and I am a bit intrigued by that thought for the same reasons you are with Josh MacDaniels. Although at the end of the day I would rather keep Heckert and hire another coach if that is what we must do.Saban would probably want control of the 53 man roster which is what Banner would seem to prefer. Would that not make the GM, whoever it is, pretty much irrelevant?
I think the only reason Banner wants that is because his only football success has been with a team that did it that way.
that's why I think that our next coach will be Reid.
To me, that means that Heckert is gone and personally, as much respect that I have for Reid, I think he's done. he needs to sit down, relax, get over the death of his son. He needs to give himself time to heal.
Maybe in a year or two, he can come back. He's a tough guy, so he'll never admit it, but I really think that's part of the problem with the eagles. Well, that and injuries.
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Edit: I want to add I think the Vick hate is misguided if you want to argue he may not be an upgrade that's fine but this whole dog killing thing should be over with. He paid his debts to society, has done charity work, and seems to have turned his life around. It's irrational to to continue to hate this guy when this team had a person who killed someone on the team.
OK... he's not an upgrade. Period. That was easy.
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Edit: I want to add I think the Vick hate is misguided if you want to argue he may not be an upgrade that's fine but this whole dog killing thing should be over with. He paid his debts to society, has done charity work, and seems to have turned his life around. It's irrational to to continue to hate this guy when this team had a person who killed someone on the team.
OK... he's not an upgrade. Period. That was easy.
He did do a lot of charity work though... every Sunday this fall he was giving away footballs to almost anybody that wanted one.
If anyone in my relationship with the browns is more akin to an alcoholic ... It is I, the fan.
Blindy believing I don't have a problem, that this time will be different, that I can stop caring anytime I want.
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He did do a lot of charity work though... every Sunday this fall he was giving away footballs to almost anybody that wanted one.
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I hear everyone starting to talk about Saban making the jump once again to the NFL and I am a bit intrigued by that thought for the same reasons you are with Josh MacDaniels. Although at the end of the day I would rather keep Heckert and hire another coach if that is what we must do.Saban would probably want control of the 53 man roster which is what Banner would seem to prefer. Would that not make the GM, whoever it is, pretty much irrelevant?
I don't think Saban fits the mold of what these guys want ... I believe he's in his 60s and these guys want a young up and comer that can be here a long time. Furthermore, I think with Saban there is a much more likelihood of a switch to a 3-4.
Does anybody remember what McDaniels ran on D while in Denver? Was it the 3-4? I think McDaniels ... with being an offensive guy and all ... could be more flexible on the type of D but that's just a guess.
I do believe McDaniels will squeeze every ounce of talent out of this offense that he can. And if he turns out to be our Bellyache, he's young enough that he can be here for a long time.
You are right Saban is 61. Youth is definately on the side of Mc Daniels. I just have trouble getting past him taking Tebow in the first round.
Do you think after the issues in Philly between Reid and Banner that they would be willing to work together again? Unless all of the hype about the power struggle was totsally over blown by the media.
If I was hiring a head coach this season, it would be Bruce Arians.
I have to laugh when CBS Sports says that Arians should be on someone's short list for Head Coach. Quite frankly the guy should be Coach of the year for the job he has done this year. He's be excellent in handling a very difficult situation, and getting far, far more out of that Colts team than almost anyone thought possible. He has done a better job as "interim" head coach than anyone else has done ah head coach.
As far as his qualifications, the man knows how to develop QBs. He has shown that he understands how to be involved with the team overall without nosing in on the defense and such. In short, he has shown that he understands the role of a head coach. I think that he'll be a great head coach somewhere.
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Does anybody remember what McDaniels ran on D while in Denver?
Not just McDaniels, everyone ran on their D while he was in Denver.