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What is the Haslam - Banner connection exactly?
I think I read that the league put them together. I have no idea what this means. Apparently, the league liked Haslam and wanted him to be an owner. I've also read that the league liked Banner and helped him connect with Haslam. Didn't we originally read that Banner was going to be a part of the ownership team with Haslam? I thought that was the first rumor. Then he's brought in as part of the leadership team and Haslam ... who is supposedly a smart business man ... gives him uber control.
What the hell is going on here? What is the connection? Why have Haslam and Banner united and why does Banner have all this control over something that is essentially Haslam's.
Imagine Haslam coming in and waiting to fill Banner's spot. He might be inclined to just leave things the way they are. Now I feel Banner is in his ear and I've just got a sick feeling about how all this is going to play out in a few weeks.
I think there's a chance that Haslam calls Banner and Heckert into a room and says how can we make this work and Heckert tells him to go pound sand. He's worked too long and too hard to get to where he is, his rep is super high in the league right now, why should he relinquish any control. I would if I was him.
But to me this all goes back to the Haslam - Banner connection. What is it? Why is Banner here exactly?
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I just know it has to be better than anything Bob LaMonte related.
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There was a thread on this some while back and I'm not sure if anyone actually figured out any direct connection before the purchase. I would really like to know myself.  There I go with another smiley! 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I just know it has to be better than anything Bob LaMonte related.
like Heckert? 
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They are both friends with someone who knows someone who met Kevin Bacon.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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They are both friends with someone who knows someone who met Kevin Bacon.
So we are allowed to dance now??? 
"Its too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence"
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You can if you want, but since they used a dance double, you really should hire someone to dance for you.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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It's a great question. One that needs to be investigated and written by one of those gumshoes in the local media.
As an aside...for years I railed against Randy Lerner and his absenteeism et al.
Now we have an engaged owner. And we're winning and there's a decidedly different culture.
Funny how that works isn't it?
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Quote:
Now we have an engaged owner. And we're winning and there's a decidedly different culture.
Funny how that works isn't it?
Since the only real movement on this team has been the hiring of Banner thus far, I feel the jury on "how that works" is a very long way from being seen.
Since it's the same roster with the same coaching staff and same GM, is this simply a bi-product of what was built and established up to this point? Or is it simply the fact someone bought the team and hired one guy in the chain of command?
Hmmmmm......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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" Now we have and engaged owner and are winning because of it".
Hmm? I chalk it up to other things paying dividends.
Childress was named offensive coordinator.
Nolan Cromwell was signed as offensive assistant.
Brandon Weeden was drafted.
Trent Richardson was drafted.
All 4 of those are new this season.
Oh and the scouting department was overhauled about 2 years ago.
Oh yeah, and Shwartz isn't getting beat as much as Pashos, who may have played through injury.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Quote:
It's a great question. One that needs to be investigated and written by one of those gumshoes in the local media.
As an aside...for years I railed against Randy Lerner and his absenteeism et al.
Now we have an engaged owner. And we're winning and there's a decidedly different culture.
Funny how that works isn't it?
I wonder if big Mike H being gone has something to do with it also.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Quote:
Quote:
It's a great question. One that needs to be investigated and written by one of those gumshoes in the local media.
As an aside...for years I railed against Randy Lerner and his absenteeism et al.
Now we have an engaged owner. And we're winning and there's a decidedly different culture.
Funny how that works isn't it?
I wonder if big Mike H being gone has something to do with it also.
Don't see why it would have anything to do with us winning after he left.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Quote:
Quote:
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It's a great question. One that needs to be investigated and written by one of those gumshoes in the local media.
As an aside...for years I railed against Randy Lerner and his absenteeism et al.
Now we have an engaged owner. And we're winning and there's a decidedly different culture.
Funny how that works isn't it?
I wonder if big Mike H being gone has something to do with it also.
Don't see why it would have anything to do with us winning after he left.
WOIO's Fifth Quarter crew threw out the speculation that perhaps Holmgren was micro-managing the offense.
I don't know how much stock I'd put into that at all, but the timing is strangely coincidental that as soon as Holmgren becomes personae non gratae, the offense begins to fire on a few more cylinders.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Quote:
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It's a great question. One that needs to be investigated and written by one of those gumshoes in the local media.
As an aside...for years I railed against Randy Lerner and his absenteeism et al.
Now we have an engaged owner. And we're winning and there's a decidedly different culture.
Funny how that works isn't it?
I wonder if big Mike H being gone has something to do with it also.
Don't see why it would have anything to do with us winning after he left.
WOIO's Fifth Quarter crew threw out the speculation that perhaps Holmgren was micro-managing the offense.
I don't know how much stock I'd put into that at all, but the timing is strangely coincidental that as soon as Holmgren becomes personae non gratae, the offense begins to fire on a few more cylinders.
Dustin Fox was saying this the minute that Holmgren was fired as president. Something along the lines of every time Shurmur would get too far outside the box with the gameplan, Homie would step in and reel everybody in.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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It's a great question. One that needs to be investigated and written by one of those gumshoes in the local media.
As an aside...for years I railed against Randy Lerner and his absenteeism et al.
Now we have an engaged owner. And we're winning and there's a decidedly different culture.
Funny how that works isn't it?
I wonder if big Mike H being gone has something to do with it also.
Don't see why it would have anything to do with us winning after he left.
WOIO's Fifth Quarter crew threw out the speculation that perhaps Holmgren was micro-managing the offense.
I don't know how much stock I'd put into that at all, but the timing is strangely coincidental that as soon as Holmgren becomes personae non gratae, the offense begins to fire on a few more cylinders.
Dustin Fox was saying this the minute that Holmgren was fired as president. Something along the lines of every time Shurmur would get too far outside the box with the gameplan, Homie would step in and reel everybody in.
I don't know who Dustin Fox is or what credibility he holds, but if there is any truth at all to this, then I'm quite glad that Holmgren is gone.
I will say one thing - we used the Wildcat this week. I distinctly recall hearing when Holmgren came in that the Wildcat was dead in Cleveland.
Maybe there's something to it?
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I don't know who Dustin Fox is or what credibility he holds, but if there is any truth at all to this, then I'm quite glad that Holmgren is gone.
I will say one thing - we used the Wildcat this week. I distinctly recall hearing when Holmgren came in that the Wildcat was dead in Cleveland.
Maybe there's something to it?
Radio host on 92.3 in Cleveland, former OSU and NFL safety. He's played in the league and has some pretty good ties with players. He seems to be right a lot more then he's not.
more info
Last edited by Flap; 12/11/12 09:14 AM.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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I heard the announcer say something about the wildcat. I looked up at the TV because I didnt believe him...lol
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I heard the announcer say something about the wildcat. I looked up at the TV because I didnt believe him...lol
I had the same reaction! I was like "what?!!?".
@Flap - And now that you say former player, I remember him from his time playing.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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j/c
The funny thing is, I haven't really seen the playbook opened up or our O being allowed to play the passing game with the lead until the past few weeks.
It's something I have wanted to see. But when Holmgren left, it didn't just magicly start happening. I think that if people wish to look for the reason for a somewhat change in direction, it's more about people wishing to save their jobs with a new owner rather than anyone departing.
But I'm not surprised that the media is looking for a scapegoat. What people seem to be forgetting is that it was Holmgren that hired Heckert and Co. that bulit what we are seeing now. Not Haslam or Banner.
I think he helped build a very solid foundation for possible greatness and now is somehow being blamed why such a young team was not cut loose to play sooner.
I believe they are just now ready and experienced enough to open up the playbook more and if Holmgren were still here, it wouldn't be any different. But somehow everyone seems to be getting the credit for what we see but him.....
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I believe they are just now ready and experienced enough to open up the playbook more
This is my main belief as well..... the guys are just finally developing.
However, the timing is very coincidental. His last day was Friday, Nov 30th. We've just seen it opening up the last couple of weeks.... the only couple of weeks that he hasn't been here. Reading too much into it? Perhaps. Perhaps not.
Yes, he brought in the people that were here, but I can very easily see him as the kind of person that meddled too deeply in the game planning and game day stuff for what his position was.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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My only real fear is that Heckert is gone. I can't see anyone else on the horizon that would do a better job then he has.
I admit, my view of the horizon from the cheap seats isn't nearly as large a view as that of Banner and Haslam. but when nobody jumps to mind, it's a scary thought.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I thought I read somewhere that Haslam was none too happy with the way Holmgren was chumming it up with Jerry Jones before the Cowboy game ...that whole fraternizing with the enemy thing. He didn't like the appearance of it.
Coincidentally Holmgren "decided" to move on early after that.
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There is no doubt that I can not say with any certainty who is right or wrong on this point.
But the only factual thing I know Holmgren meddled in was the Colt McCoy pick. As far as I know, everything else has been nothing more than pure speculation. Is that speculation correct? I believe that is anybody's guess actually.
I have also witnessed first hand someone buying out a company (although the Browns are on a much larger scale) and firing the top dog. At that point I saw people scramble in order to do anything to save their job.
So I see more than one possibility.....
1. Shurmer is at the point he's willing to do anything and knew if he continued on the path he was taking, he would be sure to lose his job. So at that point, he openned things up.
2. Holmgren could have been meddling.
3. The new regime instructed him to open things up in order to better evaluate the talent we do/don't have on O. After all, the new regime made it plain they would be evaluating everyone and if you don't open up your O, it makes it much harder to evaluate.
I feel all of these scenarios are entirely possible and hold some merrit as to such possibilities and I really don't feel that anyone can say definitively which scenario is correct.
Including me.....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
I thought I read somewhere that Haslam was none too happy with the way Holmgren was chumming it up with Jerry Jones before the Cowboy game ...that whole fraternizing with the enemy thing. He didn't like the appearance of it.
Coincidentally Holmgren "decided" to move on early after that.
Since Haslam already made him a dead man walking, I doubt Holmgren really gave a damn what Haslam thought about it and if I were in Holmgrens shoes I wouldn't either.
Holmgren had essentialy already been fired/replaced. Why does Haslam feel he has the right to replace someone and then expect an appearance of loyalty from them? If what you are saying is true in regards to Haslams feelings on the matter it makes him look rather foolish IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I agree completely on all counts.
IF Holmgren was meddling/"advising" during the games, we likely won't hear anything concrete until some player leaves the team/retires.
One last option is simply that the level of competition has dropped off, so we're able to do more. We may see us looking like we did in the coming weeks. Too soon to tell on any count.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Quote:
I thought I read somewhere that Haslam was none too happy with the way Holmgren was chumming it up with Jerry Jones before the Cowboy game ...that whole fraternizing with the enemy thing. He didn't like the appearance of it.
Coincidentally Holmgren "decided" to move on early after that.
Since Haslam already made him a dead man walking, I doubt Holmgren really gave a damn what Haslam thought about it and if I were in Holmgrens shoes I wouldn't either.
Holmgren had essentialy already been fired/replaced. Why does Haslam feel he has the right to replace someone and then expect an appearance of loyalty from them? If what you are saying is true in regards to Haslams feelings on the matter it makes him look rather foolish IMO
I don't disagree with any of that. I was just relaying what I had read.
And if you think that made Haslam look foolish ... hold onto your seat ... more is coming ... 
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However, the timing is very coincidental. His last day was Friday, Nov 30th. We've just seen it opening up the last couple of weeks.... the only couple of weeks that he hasn't been here. Reading too much into it? Perhaps. Perhaps not.
My comment is less specific and more general.
I've been vocal about my dislike of Holmgren. Most of it stems from his micro-managerial style. We know for a fact he's done it because of his hand in the drafts in spite of that aspect supposedly being Heckert's.
So let's use a little common sense here: Anyone who has ever known a micro-manager...have you ever known that person to just micro-manage one singular aspect of his operation?
No, you haven't. I certainly haven't.
I'm not saying that Holmgren being fired opened up the reigns on Shurmur. What I am saying is that it would be naive to believe that the only place Holmgren micro-managed was for a few brief moments during the draft.
To me, he only did a couple of good things here. One was to bring in Heckert, and the other was to bring in the WCO. Beyond that? He got huge dollars to sit in the chair in front of the camera, and he did that rather poorly. Musta been nice riding around on his trike, cashing all those huge checks from Lerner while keeping bankers-hours.
Since he's been gone, has anyone from the top of the organization on down to the players noted that he's being missed?
I'm not sensing that Holmgren leaving is being met with any tears inside of Berea...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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JC ...
I'm going to go ahead and pose this question here.
Say Heckert and Shurmur are shown the door. What would it take to make you stick around? What coach/GM combo will leave you feeling satisfied or intrigued?
I never, ever thought I would say this because I thought he would be ...and did become ...an utter failure in Denver, but I'm intrigued by Josh McDaniels ... and his name is being thrown out there as a possiblity. Could a second gig for McDaniels be our Bellyache?
The reason I'm intrigued is because I think he would get the most out of Weeden and our offense, in general. He's young, still has room to grow, and has failed experiences to draw from. Bellyache opened him back with open arms ... even after he showed him up in that Den-Pats game ... and all Bellyache cares about is winning so I think that says something.
I could get on board with McDaniels as coach ... if Heckert stays as well. To me, that's an intriguing combination and will probably keep me tuned in.
If Heckert is shown the door, I really have no idea who would get me excited to take his spot.
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Quote:
JC ...
I'm going to go ahead and pose this question here.
Say Heckert and Shurmur are shown the door. What would it take to make you stick around? What coach/GM combo will leave you feeling satisfied or intrigued?
GM? Nobody. There is not one single name that you could throw out there that would interest me.
Coach? Bellichick. Cowher. Dungy.
In other words - nothing would get me to buy into a blow up.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I'm just wondering how many of us will actually be able to walk away. I'm talking a big game, but I love this team so much ... I don't know if I could actually tune out. Maybe I'm underestimating myself. So I think I'm trying to prepare myself for what I feel is the inevitable ... at a minimum Shurmur is gone and most likely both him and Heckert. I hope it doesn't happen, but if I were a gambling man that's where my money would be.
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I'm just wondering how many of us will actually be able to walk away. I'm talking a big game, but I love this team so much ... I don't know if I could actually tune out. Maybe I'm underestimating myself.
That's exactly what I thought too... until we beat Pittsburgh. When that game ended, I didn't feel over-joyed or giddy. I thought to myself, "well, that is nice" and went upon my day. We just beat our rival, who has made a decade of kick the tar out of us, and it was "nice".
Don't get me wrong, I still pay for the direct TV ticket, put on my jersey and plop down on the couch every sunday, but I feel like i'm getting closer to that edge of not caring. And honestly, I think a lot of it has to do with all this talk of blowing it up because Banner didn't hire the guys.
Last edited by Flap; 12/11/12 02:09 PM.
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Quote:
I'm just wondering how many of us will actually be able to walk away. I'm talking a big game, but I love this team so much ... I don't know if I could actually tune out. Maybe I'm underestimating myself.
So I think I'm trying to prepare myself for what I feel is the inevitable ... at a minimum Shurmur is gone and most likely both him and Heckert.
I hope it doesn't happen, but if I were a gambling man that's where my money would be.
Ive tried (and of course was forced to) but no matter who I cheer my heart was always in Cleveland with the Browns.
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Quote:
I'm just wondering how many of us will actually be able to walk away. I'm talking a big game, but I love this team so much ... I don't know if I could actually tune out. Maybe I'm underestimating myself.
So I think I'm trying to prepare myself for what I feel is the inevitable ... at a minimum Shurmur is gone and most likely both him and Heckert.
I hope it doesn't happen, but if I were a gambling man that's where my money would be.
I won't have a problem.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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We need to just relax. I really see no 'where there's smoke...' type rumors out there. The media can write whatever they want w nothing to back it up.
I still have faith Heckert could stay.
I THINK I'd give Shurmur another year at this point but I think one would have to be crazy to actually be surprised if they can him.
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm just wondering how many of us will actually be able to walk away. I'm talking a big game, but I love this team so much ... I don't know if I could actually tune out. Maybe I'm underestimating myself.
So I think I'm trying to prepare myself for what I feel is the inevitable ... at a minimum Shurmur is gone and most likely both him and Heckert.
I hope it doesn't happen, but if I were a gambling man that's where my money would be.
I won't have a problem.
I really don't care all that much at this point. If they blow up the team and hire Lombardi I'll probably find something better to do with my football season. It's been long enough and I'm tired of these halfway football teams.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,396 Likes: 440 |
j/c
Call me crazy - but the Browns are my team - have been since I can remember watching football. (39 years or so)
Only time I haven't watched them on Sundays (aside from the occassional glitch in my schedule) was when we didn't have a team. I also didn't watch any regular season games in those 3 years. I did tune in for a playoff game or 2, and of course, the super bowl - but I had no interest in the other teams.
I am a Browns fan - come hell or high water - I watch the Browns. Heck, as it is, I watch the Browns now - I don't watch other games, other than a quarter here or there. Monday night games? I don't care. Sunday late games? I don't care.....
I watch the Browns, that's it. If they blow it up and start over, I'll be watching the Browns.
Now, with that said, I may not pay to attend any games. I may curtail or simply cut off my Browns purchases. But I guarantee, I will NOT quit following the Browns because of some front office decisions, or some player decisions. Guess it's just me - that's how I am. The Browns are MY team.
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,936
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,936 |
I'm with you Arch... For better or worse, I was born a Browns fan and will always watch them. However, I'm just now starting to feel good about this team again and, as a season ticket holder, that's a pretty big deal for me. I waited until, literally, the last minute to renew THIS season. If Jimmy-Joe blows this thing up, I might just save my money and buy a nicer HD TV for next season.
[color:"white"]"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
-- Mark Twain [/color]
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,946 Likes: 763
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,946 Likes: 763 |
I view it as tough love.
If I had a son with a drinking problem, I wouldn't keeping buying his line of crap endlessly when he tells me "this time, this time it'll be different!"... no matter how much I care for him.
I see this as no different.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,396 Likes: 440
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,396 Likes: 440 |
Quote:
I view it as tough love.
If I had a son with a drinking problem, I wouldn't keeping buying his line of crap endlessly when he tells me "this time, this time it'll be different!"... no matter how much I care for him.
I see this as no different.
In that scenario - would you give up on your son and adopt another son? Or would you keep on rooting for, and pulling for your son?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 814 Likes: 8
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 814 Likes: 8 |
Quote:
Quote:
I view it as tough love.
If I had a son with a drinking problem, I wouldn't keeping buying his line of crap endlessly when he tells me "this time, this time it'll be different!"... no matter how much I care for him.
I see this as no different.
In that scenario - would you give up on your son and adopt another son? Or would you keep on rooting for, and pulling for your son?
But it's just a football team. I've been a Browns' fan for as long as I can remember. And for far too many of those years they've been a disappointment to me. Yet I keep coming back. Next time, it'll be different, that's what I keep telling myself. After a while you just get tired of it. At this point I can pretty much walk away from NFL football and my life will go on. The Cleveland Browns made me that way.
I'm excited about the team and it's direction. I'm hopeful that Haslam isn't some kind of filthy rich buffoon who wastes ten years trying to fix what isn't really all that broken right now. I just don't have the energy to sit and watch another rebuild. Especially when I don't believe it's warranted. My best guess is he's smart enough to recognize he bought a team that is on it's way to contention.
I'll be even more excited after we beat Washington to make it four in a row.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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