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Posted By: ddubia Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 04:50 AM
Committed to Building the Right Way


By Fred Greetham
OBR Senior Browns Reporter
Posted Jul 24, 2013



Only time will tell if Banner's vision for the Browns will pay off, but there's no question he has a plan.

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BEREA -- Browns CEO is very optimistic that the Browns are poised to turn things around for the long haul. In a meeting with the local media on the Browns practice field in Berea, Banner answered questions for over 20 minutes regarding the Browns this year and the future. He also talked about the lawsuits against Pilot Flying J and his perception on how that will affect Jimmy Haslam and the Browns moving forward.

Banner said he is excited as the Browns take the field to start training camp on Thursday at 4 p.m. for the first official practice of training camp, which is open to the public.

"I think it's the effort, the quality of the coaching staff, the caliber of the people we added," Banner said. "I think you start with the minicamp. There's a real pace, energy and work ethic and that makes a difference. That's the culture that Chud (Rob Chudzinski) has instilled, along with the scheme, those are the types of things that will help us."

Banner was asked about what type of season he thinks the Browns will have in 2013, but he didn't want to give a number of wins or losses, rather choosing to focus on the bigger picture.

"My focus is really on wanting to see the shift in the culture that we've talked about, the effort, wanting to see the schemes that the coaches are putting in," he said. "That the players get better as the season goes in what we're doing. Seeing the young players develop that we're talking about and hoping that they are all what we think they could be. That's really my focus, wanting to see the work ethic and the pace that you saw in the spring stay through the whole season. So I think if we see those things then we're on the right track."

Despite, the legal problems with Haslam and Pilot Flying J, Banner said he feels the Browns have been able make solid strides in the team's perception.

"We're about where we thought we'd be," he said. "It's been a little overlooked, but we got two free agents that a lot of teams were interested in. The fact that they chose to come here is an important message to our team and around the league. The fact that we signed John Greco yesterday and the fact that players don't sign early unless they are optimistic and it's a place they want to be. I think that was bigger than the fact that he was from here, although that helped. I think those things kind of feed on themselves and if you want to be a winning organization and a place where teams want to come to that means they feel good about the people who are going to coach them and that they are optimistic about winning. There is an economic component, as well, but those other factors are in there when you're competing for those types of players.

"I think that is a really good sign on how the league is adjusting their thinking about what it would be to come and play here or coach here," he said. "That's a thing that will help us in the long term."

Banner knows that regimes have come and gone with the Browns since 1999 and all have said they were going to turn things around. Banner was asked why he feels his regime will succeed.

"I don’t want this to sound the wrong way, but I think the key to the answer is the people leading the organization really have to sell that message and vision, and just sell it hard enough for people to believe us," Banner said. "I mean, I come from having a track record, worked with Andy Reid for 14 years. That’s about as long a partnership is during the league and had Howie Roseman, who’s the general manager there, 14 years.

"Don Smolenski, who became the president when I left, was there 14 years," he continued. "Our directors of revenue were there seven or eight years. One of them, Len Komoroski came here and became President of the Cavaliers.

I think the fact that they’ve seen that my belief, and it may be kind of cliché-ish, is you don’t want to have continuity until you’ve got the right people in place because that’s the fastest way to really (do it), but once you have the right people in place, continuity is the most important, valuable thing that you can do.

"We just have to sell that vision," he said. "We’ve got to get them to buy it and trust it. I think we’re in very good shape with that. We’re starting to re-sign some of our own players, the kind of people we brought in here helps with all that, but some of it is just they’re just going to have to see it in action."

Banner knows the Browns weren't able to address all of their needs in this past off-season.

"This is actually the hardest part of where we’re at," he said. "Because whether it’s Jimmy or Chud or myself, we’re really impatient and we’re really competitive. So to have the discipline to do this the way we think you’ve got to do it if you’re going to sustain success is really, really hard right now. We’re trying to stay very disciplined about taking steps forward as opposed to fooling ourselves into trying to do everything at once, frankly signing too many free agents that are hard to integrate.

"The track record on free agents, in terms of the success rate isn’t as high as you’d like, so you’ve got to be really selective and careful," he said. "I can’t wait till we get to the point where we go into a season feeling like we’ve at least got solid players at every position, and hopefully some really dynamic difference-makers at some positions. It takes a lot of discipline, but having studied the teams that have done this well, having been part of a turnaround in Philadelphia, it’s really clear that the teams that have done this and sustained the success have taken the approach where for the first year or two they go into it knowing there are still some things left to do in terms of the roster, but been willing to build it that way on the way in so once they get there they can keep it there."

Only time will tell if Banner's vision for the Browns will pay off, but there's no question he has a plan.

Other questions that Banner addressed:


Q: How have Haslam’s legal problems affected the Browns front office?:

Banner: "It really hasn’t affected us at all. We have a team we put together here of really, really good people, whether we’re talking the coaching staff, the business side, even our foundation. We’re really excited about the team we put together.

Jimmy really had a vision. He spoke hereabout what his priorities were around creating a phenomenal fan experience and being focused on winning fans again. He hired me. We put together a team on a day to day basis to accomplish that. We’re free and clear to do all that. Nothing has happened to impact our ability to do that or frankly given us any reason not to be successful.”


Q: Is there anything you can say to fans to re-assure them concerning the Browns stability?:

Banner: “I don’t know what we can say beyond what we’ve said. And I understand why that doesn’t give everybody total peace of mind, believe me. But I don’t know what we can say more than we’re operating the team exactly as we would whether this had happened or not. Jimmy is here and incredibly supportive and a huge asset to us. I think he’s made it clear and I’ve tried to make it clear without any ambiguity at all that he’s not going to sell the team. But I understand why until that actually happens and this thing plays itself out that it’s a legitimate question.”


Q: Has he talked to you about this and said anything differently?:

Banner: “We’ve certainly talked about it privately. He’s been extremely open with me and felt it was appropriate I knew what was going on and reinforce the very same messages he said publicly. We certainly discussed it, but I know him. I have a lot of confidence in him. I wouldn’t say I had to be reassured.”


Q: Is there uncertainty in the Browns building?:

Banner: “I think when it first started people had questions about it, but I think fairly quickly they got answers and felt comfortable. They know me. They know Jimmy. I think they trust what we told them and we’re right back focused on exactly what we’re doing.”


Q: What was your reaction when Pilot got raided?:

Banner: “It was a surprise. Obviously, it wasn’t anything anybody was anticipating, so I was surprised. But I got the chance to know Jimmy and we talked about how we were going to run the Browns. The focus of his was doing things the right way, doing things with integrity from the first moment I met him. It certainly wasn’t anything I anticipated, but I felt comfortable with his responses. And as I said, we’ve been free to operate the Browns exactly the same way whether this happened or not.”


Q: Do you have more responsibility now that Jimmy is dealing with the legal issues?:

Banner: "No, as I say, the plan was for him to create this vision, for him to be involved in it, but to trust myself and the team we were going to put together to kind of implement it on a day-to-day basis, so we've continued to do that and I hope well. And as I say, I don't think we're doing anything differently here than we would've been doing if this had never happened."


Q: The perception was that Jimmy was going to be a very hands on owner. Has that changed?:

Banner: "The vision he told me he had for how he wanted to be an owner, which included him talking about some of the other owners in the league that he respected and that he wanted to operate in a similar manner to, is exactly the way things have gone, so whatever terms may have been used in terms of being hands on, how he defined that to me and how we've operated are totally in synch."


Q: Do you see a scenario where the Browns could be sold?:

Banner: "I don't see that scenario."


Q: Thoughts on Brandon Weeden?:

Banner: "I don't know in terms of final answers, but we're excited he has come in and met with Chud extensively. He has worked extremely hard and has done everything he has been asked to do. He obviously did a lot of work in the spring at the position. I think everyone is encouraged on how hard he is working and how badly he wants to do well."


Q: Do you see all three quarterbacks here at the start of the season?:

Banner: "In terms of evaluating them and how they're going to be used and stuff like, I want to leave that stuff to Chud. In terms of roster, we'll see what happens and you're always looking for any chance to upgrade any position on the team, so we'll keep our eyes open, but I think we feel pretty good about those three guys."


Q: What's your assessment of Josh Gordon in light of his 2 game suspension?:

Banner: "He spent a fair amount of time talking to Chud and he’s got to do some work and he understands he’s going to be held accountable and he gets the rope that’s left isn’t long. In working with the coaches they need to see that commitment, that work ethic. Obviously, off the field he needs to make good choices."


Q: Has there been any hesitation on sponsors’ parts because of the investigation?:

Banner: “Not that they’ve expressed, and I don’t mean this to say the wrong way but we’ve sold more season tickets than the Browns have sold since at least the return here. This offseason, more suites, more club seats, more new marketing partnerships. So there’s a lot of optimism and positive feeling about where the franchise is heading and I think it started with him taking over, leading the team and the vision he had and the team we’ve put together to run it.”


Q: Do you think part of that was your decision to do away with PSLs?:

Banner: “I think it’s a combination of things. But we did that because we view that as something that was very friendly. I know some people misinterpreted and didn’t get that, but it is actually a very fan-friendly decision. So it did open the door for some people. But I also think there’s a lot of energy, even increased energy and optimism about what things we’re doing now and where the franchise is headed. I think that’s the main reason you see that happening.”


Q: What is the renewal of last year's season ticket holders?:

Banner:
“I think we’re at 94 percent renewal rate. So season-ticket holders came back, which is an extraordinarily high number historically here. When I say that, a few percentage points actually makes a big difference. So that’s very exciting. Then as I say, we only direct back to 1999, and we’ve sold more new season tickets than has been sold in any year since 1999. For us, those are the tips of the iceberg where people are starting to feel optimistic and encouraged by what they’re seeing and wanting to be even more of a part of it than they’ve been.”


Q: Will cell phone service be better at the stadium this year?:

Banner: "Cell phones will work."



OBR
Posted By: PDR Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 05:27 AM
One thing I have liked is that we've been mitigating risk really well.

The new regime could flop flat on their face in terms of talent evaluation, and they still wouldn't be leaving that much of a mess behind contract-wise.
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 01:07 PM
I agree. So far, it appears Banner has done an excellent job negotiating. I know he has always been perceived as a very competitive negotiator, which can often lead to impasses and bad feelings, but there are no red flags so far. It appears to be working when you look at the structure of things as they are now.
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 01:21 PM
I agree. It's like he sees it as a puzzle and isn't going to force fit any of the pieces.
Posted By: BpG Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 01:29 PM
I'm not even reading this garbage. I've heard this with every single regime change, read the same boring, lifeless, garbage articles.

Show me.
Posted By: DjangoBrown Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 02:19 PM
I'm probably going to be the party pooper again, but the last dude that was tooting his horn so hard like Banner did in that piece was Mangini, who also talked about "culture change" and pimped himself constantly by quoting with what great names he accoimplished this and that (Mangini-Belly, Banner-Reid).

For once I'd like a FO/CEO/GM whatever that has his OWN vision instead of talking how he studied "succesful teams". Every regime we had said that and ran an old scheme because of it, because in this league you have to be the innovator not the copy cat, who implements a certain scheme when it is already inefficient or declining in effectiveness.

He's also back-paddling again trying to lower expectations and is close to say "Dear Browns Fan, take it and have faith for the next two years. Improvement is important, not winning", all that after shooting blame and constantly quoting the last regime's record as not being what they're looking at. The closer the season, the more it sounds as if it's ok though when his Browns collect a pair of 4-6 win seasons. Interesting. Attacking this, attacking that, talking big "culture change", but when it comes to the bottom line he is anything but aggressive, he becomes meekly. He definitely interviews "not to lose" here. The irony
Posted By: Rishuz Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 02:37 PM
I'm with BPG ... it's "show me" time. I've had my fill of these types of articles over the years. I care only about results ... wins. I don't care if these guys build themselves up to be the greatest thing ever or hide in the shadows never to be heard from ... I want the wins to be greater than the losses every single year.

I will say this, though. Mangini didn't have a clue and it was quite obvious. Banner at least appears to have a clue. Whether he showed a little insecurity or not ala Savage with pimping his own free agent moves, I don't really care. There are only so many ways to skin a cat in this league. Eventually we are going to hit on a winning formula, and I hope these guys are it.

I too, however, I'm not happy with the lowering of expectations. I've commented on this before, and it's really pissed me off. They came in here like gangbusters telling the fans how losing was unacceptable and we would be the ultimate competitors ... competing hard to win every game ... and as soon as Holmgren and Co. were gone that tune changed. Now they've got Browns fans ... some on this board ... singing that same tune. It's like brainwash city. I'm tired of hearing how changing coaches and schemes takes time. It's all about how you have improved compared to your peers. If we have improved better than our peers with our coaches and schemes and players it will show up on the field. These guys are doubting themselves and giving themselves an out. You have to go into every season expecting you'll be the last team standing. Because guess what? If you are playing for year 2 or 3 down the road, there are too many unknown variables between now and then that can have a major impact in what will happen ... including the improvement made by other teams.

I see no reason why we can't be SF from two years ago....none. But now the players know it's ok if that doesn't happen. All they have to do is listen to the FO.
Posted By: clevesteve Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 02:51 PM
like this?

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/03/22/one-on-one-with-mike-holmgren-how-to-rebuild-the-browns/

Quote:

FanHouse: How do you go about changing a culture of losing that has been ingrained with the Browns for 10 years?

Mike Holmgren:. You have to present a plan, a philosophy. And you have to make sure people listen. And you ask them to buy in. Not everyone is going to buy in. It's, 'Show me, I've been through this. Show me.' Then what you have to do is you have to have a little success. A little victory here, a little victory here. You take those steps and it happens.

FH: When you say 'they' have to buy in, who do you mean?

MH: Everybody. We work in the building, but the Cleveland Browns are Cleveland's team. It's a storied franchise. Everybody ... players, coaches, people who work there, fans, media. It's everybody. Because everyone has a vested interest. All those people somehow have a vested interest in how the Browns do. I don't care what they say. When you can build something up, everybody feels good about their contribution ... I've seen it work. It can happen. I don't care how many years people felt it's not been good or people have been frustrated. It can happen.


boy that sounds familiar... must be page one of the new regime take over manual.

Lowering expectations? Not sure they can get any lowerfor me.. I have none.

One thing for sure if you keep playing for tomorrow, you will always be playing for tomorrow. It never comes.. it is always a day away....
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 03:41 PM
I'm not trying to stick up for banner, because after all, I'm a hater, right?



But I'm really not sure we could expect him to say more. Let's look at the situation as it stands.

We all want Weeden to succeed, but do you have any more confidence in him than you did last year? And if so, do you honestly feel a system change will cure all of his shortcomings?

Do you feel there was a legit. QB in this draft we could have gotten that would have been a high % of solving the QB issue?

With TRiches injury history, do you feel confident we'll see a healthy TRich for 16 weeks?

I don't feel this FO or coaching staff feels we have all of the talent in place to take a big leap this year. I also feel they believe some of our young talent will progress, and some won't.

They had no real choice to find out than to give our young O a chance this year. But I believe even they know things won't operate on all cylinders. Yet again we see the Josh Gordon incident. Someone the O counts on, that as of now, really can't be counted on.

Their choices were wholesale roster changes, or letting a lot of it play out this year and seeing where they are by the seasons end. I believe they did the right thing. But do I feel they believe it will all be peaches and cream? Hardly.

And I actually never saw this FO tell us success would be immediate. H&H had three years with similar records. There was no steady progression in W's as time went on. So yes, to me that's unacceptable. If the same holds true for this group, I'll consider that unacceptable as well.

I don't believe you can take a roster someone else assembled and insert new schemes on both sides of the ball without growing pains.

I believe it's been far more members of this board who have in many cases fooled themselves into believing that, than anything said by this FO. People have insisted that Weeden will do much better in this system, yet it's some of his fundamentals that were lacking. A system doesn't fix that.

People have assumed our players will learn an entire new D scheme and will flourish in that system very quickly. While the new D system I believe is for the best long term, I believe there will be more growing pains this year than many anticipate from what I've read here.

Our secondary has question marks as we all know. As time has gone on, many have tried to portray that Skrine will turn from an ugly duckling into a swan. But really?



Actually I feel Banner is being quite realistic here. I really can't blame him because our fan base got overly optimistic and when they see reality, wish to blame others for their over optimistic expectations.

JMHO
Posted By: Ballpeen Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 03:50 PM
Kind of like last year when Homie, in a irritated voice, said we were going to be a much better team?

We all know what is going to be said. I am still going to listen and be hopeful...that's what fans do IMO.... But....I have been at the point of "show me" for a long time now. I'll run with what they say and tell until the show doesn't equal the verbage.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 03:58 PM
I'm also at the show me stage.

I just feel that Banners comments about this season were realistic and some expected much more in their first season here than what I felt reality dictated.

We all hope for more, but under the circumstances, I felt expecting it in their first season was fairly unrealistic.
Posted By: DjangoBrown Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 04:02 PM
Sure, he's realistic and he's all his bases covered as would I if I were in his shoes.
I even applauded them for the "wait and let's see" approach on Offense, as I never expected them to be this patient.

My problem is that he attacked the last regime for their record but acknowledged that they improved, got younger and left over a marvelous cap situation (normally, when a GM starts it's the opposite, ask the Raiders or Jets GM), which enabled THEM to reap 2 of the best FAs on the market (and he has the guts to twist this into a "selling a philosophy" thing, lol...Yeah Joe, you had a million more philosophy than the other GM)...and now? He comes out and says that W-L don't matter only "more" improvement?

Banner pretty much continues Heckert's plan with new coaches and scheme, that's it. So if Heckert was still here, would you be ok with 5 wins? Hell no, we have the same players on O and 3/4 of the D is the same and the other 1/4 was severly upgraded. At this point, whatever we do, is 50% Heckert too, but the way Banner set it up is:

we continue to win only 4-6 = well, we had to find out what the idiots before us accumulated

we win 7+ = we are already better than the idiots that were here before us

That's what I meant with regards to his interview-"not to lose"-rhetoric. He's talking out of both sides here and there are a lot of contradicting "statements" made, so he can pick and choose after the season. He put himself in a win-win, but the truth is that he pretty much left the roster as is and anyone who saw the team last season knows that this same team can easily win 7 games just on natural progression/experience of the young talent alone. Then add two high priced FA signings to that and it's far from crazy to expect a .500 season.

Yet, here he is lowering expectations after coming out firing early in the process. Smart weasel, I'll give him that
Posted By: PortlandDawg Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 04:06 PM
Quote:

Kind of like last year when Homie, in a irritated voice, said we were going to be a much better team?




Well in his defense I do believe we were a better team, roster wise, than the year prior. Just extremely poorly coached.
Posted By: KingSteve Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 04:24 PM
It's hard to really feel like I'm at that point of SHOW ME.

This is a new regime...love it or hate it...it's a fresh start for a fresh group.

It's like breaking up with a bad girlfriend and when you meet the new one be like...you better be the one, i'm sick of bad gfs...we cant really do that and expect anything to be good.

That being said, this new girlfriend is off to the right start. We have good coordinators (that aren't afraid to go hard...Jauron and Childress were the most conservative of the conservative) and a visionary head coach. I see Chud as a Sean Payton type. Similar hype when brought in...the whole, well he did a great job with x, and y, and etc... but can he really get it done running a whole team?

This is a guy that was coming in to really just show he could be more than a TE coach in 07...and blew away the coaching staff with his preparation, and he did the same in Carolina, and he did the same in Cleveland a 2nd time. The guy knows how to prepare...and when you know how to prepare, you can and will succeed.

Chud will do that.

Do we need patience? Sure...will he make rookie mistakes? sure...but you can guarantee that his rookie mistakes aren't going to be punting down 6 will the ball at the 40.

For the first time in a while...and oh god I've said that before...but it feels different this time. I don't have questions as to why decisions were made.

With Mangini it was...are you sure? This guy blew it in NY...well, there was a reason...okay.
With Shurmur it was...is this the guy? Couldn't we have found better? Or tried harder? well...he has pedigree...okay.

This time it feels like...ya know what...good. We tried x, y, z, a, b, f...this is the best...good. Has he flamed out anywhere? Not really...our offense was bad in 08...but it got progressively worse after Chud left...so...not really.

He has been great everywhere, and will continue to get better. If not...he has a proven GOOD OC in Turner that has had historically good offenses, record setting offenses...and a DC that was a great player, has been a great DB coach, and a great DC.

Patience? Sure...bummer that we need it? sure...

But...this looks like a plan. It looks like a good plan. It looks like we can come out guns blazing. We're not waiting for someone else to draw, were entering the fight already firing off 3 shots. It's hard to not get behind that mentality. Screw you we're doing this.

I for one am excited
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 04:31 PM
Quote:


This is a new regime...love it or hate it...it's a fresh start for a fresh group.




No, it isn't.. .not for me. No more fresh starts.



Quote:



It's like breaking up with a bad girlfriend and when you meet the new one be like...you better be the one, i'm sick of bad gfs...we cant really do that and expect




No, it's more like dating Cybil and each time a new personality comes out, you're telling yourself "THIS ONE isn't going to be crazy".
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 04:42 PM
At least Banner has some positive track record of running a team. Holmgren was just a big name hired to placate a fan base.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 04:52 PM
Quote:

"I think it's the effort, the quality of the coaching staff, the caliber of the people we added," Banner said.



The caliber of the people we've added?

Signed Desmond Bryant, he was arrested on 2/14 for criminal mischief
Signed Quentin Groves, he was arrested on 4/24 for solicitation
Drafted Armonty Bryant, he was arrested on 5/6 for DUI
Signed Ausar Walcott, he was arrested on 6/26 for attempted murder by punching a guy...

Yep, that's some seriously high caliber signings. There have been 31 NFL players arrested since the super bowl and the Browns account for 4 of them, all brought in under this regime... oh, and our best WR was suspended for the start of the season..... DOING IT THE RIGHT WAY ISN"T JUST A SLOGAN AROUND HERE.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 04:53 PM
Quote:

Quote:

"I think it's the effort, the quality of the coaching staff, the caliber of the people we added," Banner said.



The caliber of the people we've added?

Signed Desmond Bryant, he was arrested on 2/14 for criminal mischief
Signed Quentin Groves, he was arrested on 4/24 for solicitation
Drafted Armonty Bryant, he was arrested on 5/6 for DUI
Signed Ausar Walcott, he was arrested on 6/26 for attempted murder by punching a guy...

Yep, that's some seriously high caliber signings. There have been 31 NFL players arrested since the super bowl and the Browns account for 4 of them, all brought in under this regime... oh, and our best WR was suspended for the start of the season..... DOING IT THE RIGHT WAY ISN"T JUST A SLOGAN AROUND HERE.




lol!

Yeah, character and personality definitely were not the measuring sticks used for determining "caliber".... maybe he was referring to what they carry??
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 05:00 PM
At least they didn't kill anyone. . .

But seriously, Banner is talking about on the field.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 05:02 PM
Also, Gordon was drafted by Heckert and Holmgren. I don't see how that gets put on the new guys.
Posted By: PrplPplEater Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 05:06 PM
Ummmm, he didn't mention Gordon, did he?
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 05:13 PM
DCDAWG did. He said:

Quote:

oh, and our best WR was suspended for the start of the season


Posted By: Spiritbro77 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 05:16 PM
Quote:

I'm not even reading this garbage. I've heard this with every single regime change, read the same boring, lifeless, garbage articles.

Show me.




I was just going to say the same thing man. EVERY new regime for EVERY team says the same exact thing. Belichick just talked about building the Pats the right way in his presser yesterday.... It's their mantra. Some really believe it. Some actually do try to build a team the "right" way. And some just rattle off these platitudes because it's part of the gig. As you say BpG, SHOW me. We've heard it all before. Peace....
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 05:25 PM
Quote:

My problem is that he attacked the last regime for their record




Where did he do this?
Posted By: DjangoBrown Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 05:50 PM
Quote:

Quote:

My problem is that he attacked the last regime for their record




Where did he do this?




As I said, not in this interview which is a 180 from the early months of his tenure, that's when he cited the record and fired subtle and not so subtle shots at pretty much all past regimes.

When you use the "record" argument to discredit the work done before as not being good enough, then I don't expect you to back down from the W-L measurement, which is what he did
j/c:

Sheesh..........what a crock.

The same guys who preached about giving Holmgren and company a chance and defended every stupid move they did are now saying "show me."

I can even remember a guy on this thread who had "I'm becoming a Pat Shurmur enthusiast" as his sig before we even played a game. Now, he is saying, "show me."

You guys are looking for reasons to complain. Yet, you constantly defended the past regime. Yeah, I am taking you seriously.
Posted By: BpG Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 05:59 PM
I know you're talking about Spirit but I can't help but have the "Come at me" feeling.
Posted By: cfrs15 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 06:00 PM
I think there is some of that, but mostly I think people are just tired of sucking.
Not talking about you, bro..........and don't wave that finger in my face.
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 07:17 PM
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My problem is that he attacked the last regime for their record




Where did he do this?




As I said, not in this interview which is a 180 from the early months of his tenure, that's when he cited the record and fired subtle and not so subtle shots at pretty much all past regimes.

When you use the "record" argument to discredit the work done before as not being good enough, then I don't expect you to back down from the W-L measurement, which is what he did




I honestly don't remember him attacking the prior FO on their record. Can you point me to that?
Posted By: Heldawg Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 07:20 PM
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"I think it's the effort, the quality of the coaching staff, the caliber of the people we added," Banner said.



The caliber of the people we've added?

Signed Desmond Bryant, he was arrested on 2/14 for criminal mischief
Signed Quentin Groves, he was arrested on 4/24 for solicitation
Drafted Armonty Bryant, he was arrested on 5/6 for DUI
Signed Ausar Walcott, he was arrested on 6/26 for attempted murder by punching a guy...

Yep, that's some seriously high caliber signings. There have been 31 NFL players arrested since the super bowl and the Browns account for 4 of them, all brought in under this regime... oh, and our best WR was suspended for the start of the season..... DOING IT THE RIGHT WAY ISN"T JUST A SLOGAN AROUND HERE.




Well done sir.

Gotta call a spade a spade.

Don't worry guys. We have middle 1/3 of the NFL talent on this team right now. We're better than the Steelers talent wise right now. And the rearview mirror of the Bengals and Ravens say "things may be closer than they appear".

We're good. If Chud and Norv get Weeden slinging the ball we're going to win a lot of games. I'm excited.

But man we really need to beat Miami game 1.

I don't remember such a critical first game since the reboot.

We lose that game and go into Baltimore that's a recipe for 0-2. Then we get the Vikings and AD and ouch we could be staring 0-3 right in the face.

And then the team begins doubting......

That Miami game is critical.
Posted By: ddubia Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 07:52 PM
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The caliber of the people we've added?

Signed Desmond Bryant, he was arrested on 2/14 for criminal mischief
Signed Quentin Groves, .........





I believe he was talking about more than just the roster. The coaching staff, scouts, executives, etc, all contribute to an organization. I think Banner feels he's filled the building with quality people.
Posted By: KingSteve Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 07:53 PM
I don't think he's necessarily talking about caliber of person as a whole? I got a feel like caliber of person as a football player.

I get the idea, if youre not on the field youre of no value.

But...Bryant, and Groves can play. Bryant may be a player too. Walcott is gone.

We had a team with great character under Mangini and we got nothing back for it. I want players...
Posted By: Heldawg Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/25/13 08:16 PM
No I know...but you can take caliber the way that DC took it and he made a valid point. Just thought it was appropo.

I want to win and win with high character players too.
Aren't you referring to "character?" He said caliber. And I agree w/ddub that he was talking about the organization as a whole. No big deal, but I think you misinterpreted that remark.
Posted By: Spiritbro77 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/26/13 01:50 AM
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j/c:

Sheesh..........what a crock.

The same guys who preached about giving Holmgren and company a chance and defended every stupid move they did are now saying "show me."

I can even remember a guy on this thread who had "I'm becoming a Pat Shurmur enthusiast" as his sig before we even played a game. Now, he is saying, "show me."

You guys are looking for reasons to complain. Yet, you constantly defended the past regime. Yeah, I am taking you seriously.




For years I got grief for being too negative. Not buying to the latest, greatest savior. And all I got was crap from you over buying in to the plan when I did finally get on board. A plan I might add, that they STUCK with. So now I'm back in black. I expect to see improvement this year. Sue me. Since you were calling for Shurmurs head after one GAME you don't have much room to talk.


Building the team the right way = Building through the draft and being frugal in free agency.

Lets examine the previous regimes.

Mangini was in control for one season. He said all the right things. He was going to build it the right way. Etc. Then he signed aging vets and traded for more. At the end of his tenure as GM/HC we were a much older and slower team and he presided over one of the worst drafts in Browns history.

Holmgren and Heckert said they had a plan. They were going to build this team the "right" way. By building through the draft and not over spending in free agency. At the end of their run in the front office we are one of the youngest teams in the league, they left us in AWESOME shape cap wise and they did EXACTLY what they said they were going to do. Build through the draft and not over spend on old guys. They DID show and prove. We are in MUCH better shape now than we were when they got here.

Interestingly, our new regime Banner and Lombardi are saying the exact same thing Heckert and Holmgren said( typically what every new regime says)..... The plan hasn't changed. Or so they say. Time will tell if they show and prove it....

And yes, I liked Pat Shurmur. I thought he was a good guy. Much better than Mr. backstabber hero-boy. Mangini 10-22 Shurmur 9-23 Tell me HOW superior hero boy was..... One fluke win against Buffalo where we completed 3 total passes and won on a muffed punt return. Gained ZERO yards and Dawson saved Mangini from an 0-12 start. That's the difference man. A muffed punt followed by a field goal.

Want to argue further over past regimes, you know where to find me man. We can have at it any time you like....
Posted By: pblack18707 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/26/13 02:36 AM
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Quote:

j/c:

Sheesh..........what a crock.

The same guys who preached about giving Holmgren and company a chance and defended every stupid move they did are now saying "show me."

I can even remember a guy on this thread who had "I'm becoming a Pat Shurmur enthusiast" as his sig before we even played a game. Now, he is saying, "show me."

You guys are looking for reasons to complain. Yet, you constantly defended the past regime. Yeah, I am taking you seriously.




For years I got grief for being too negative. Not buying to the latest, greatest savior. And all I got was crap from you over buying in to the plan when I did finally get on board. A plan I might add, that they STUCK with. So now I'm back in black. I expect to see improvement this year. Sue me. Since you were calling for Shurmurs head after one GAME you don't have much room to talk.


Building the team the right way = Building through the draft and being frugal in free agency.

Lets examine the previous regimes.

Mangini was in control for one season. He said all the right things. He was going to build it the right way. Etc. Then he signed aging vets and traded for more. At the end of his tenure as GM/HC we were a much older and slower team and he presided over one of the worst drafts in Browns history.

Holmgren and Heckert said they had a plan. They were going to build this team the "right" way. By building through the draft and not over spending in free agency. At the end of their run in the front office we are one of the youngest teams in the league, they left us in AWESOME shape cap wise and they did EXACTLY what they said they were going to do. Build through the draft and not over spend on old guys. They DID show and prove. We are in MUCH better shape now than we were when they got here.

Interestingly, our new regime Banner and Lombardi are saying the exact same thing Heckert and Holmgren said( typically what every new regime says)..... The plan hasn't changed. Or so they say. Time will tell if they show and prove it....

And yes, I liked Pat Shurmur. I thought he was a good guy. Much better than Mr. backstabber hero-boy. Mangini 10-22 Shurmur 9-23 Tell me HOW superior hero boy was..... One fluke win against Buffalo where we completed 3 total passes and won on a muffed punt return. Gained ZERO yards and Dawson saved Mangini from an 0-12 start. That's the difference man. A muffed punt followed by a field goal.

Want to argue further over past regimes, you know where to find me man. We can have at it any time you like....




just wow. i cant remember a post with so much crap. you and mac in a contest?
Posted By: mac Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/26/13 02:46 AM
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just wow. i cant remember a post with so much crap. you and mac in a contest?




pbla...just what did Spirit say that was not true?...show us.

Gotta smack another gnat...

Gnats are bad this time of year !
Posted By: pblack18707 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/26/13 02:55 AM
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Quote:

just wow. i cant remember a post with so much crap. you and mac in a contest?




pbla...just what did Spirit say that was not true?...show us.

Gotta smack another gnat...

Gnats are bad this time of year !





why should i answer you? you don't answer posts where you are proved wrong. 0 respect for you. now spirit i do have a little. so when he wants me to answer i will.
Posted By: mac Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/26/13 03:16 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

just wow. i cant remember a post with so much crap. you and mac in a contest?




pbla...just what did Spirit say that was not true?...show us.

Gotta smack another gnat...

Gnats are bad this time of year !





why should i answer you? you don't answer posts where you are proved wrong. 0 respect for you. now spirit i do have a little. so when he wants me to answer i will.




pba...Run Forest, Run...

...damn gnats !
Posted By: brownsdog Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/26/13 03:20 AM
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

j/c:

Sheesh..........what a crock.

The same guys who preached about giving Holmgren and company a chance and defended every stupid move they did are now saying "show me."

I can even remember a guy on this thread who had "I'm becoming a Pat Shurmur enthusiast" as his sig before we even played a game. Now, he is saying, "show me."

You guys are looking for reasons to complain. Yet, you constantly defended the past regime. Yeah, I am taking you seriously.




For years I got grief for being too negative. Not buying to the latest, greatest savior. And all I got was crap from you over buying in to the plan when I did finally get on board. A plan I might add, that they STUCK with. So now I'm back in black. I expect to see improvement this year. Sue me. Since you were calling for Shurmurs head after one GAME you don't have much room to talk.


Building the team the right way = Building through the draft and being frugal in free agency.

Lets examine the previous regimes.

Mangini was in control for one season. He said all the right things. He was going to build it the right way. Etc. Then he signed aging vets and traded for more. At the end of his tenure as GM/HC we were a much older and slower team and he presided over one of the worst drafts in Browns history.

Holmgren and Heckert said they had a plan. They were going to build this team the "right" way. By building through the draft and not over spending in free agency. At the end of their run in the front office we are one of the youngest teams in the league, they left us in AWESOME shape cap wise and they did EXACTLY what they said they were going to do. Build through the draft and not over spend on old guys. They DID show and prove. We are in MUCH better shape now than we were when they got here.

Interestingly, our new regime Banner and Lombardi are saying the exact same thing Heckert and Holmgren said( typically what every new regime says)..... The plan hasn't changed. Or so they say. Time will tell if they show and prove it....

And yes, I liked Pat Shurmur. I thought he was a good guy. Much better than Mr. backstabber hero-boy. Mangini 10-22 Shurmur 9-23 Tell me HOW superior hero boy was..... One fluke win against Buffalo where we completed 3 total passes and won on a muffed punt return. Gained ZERO yards and Dawson saved Mangini from an 0-12 start. That's the difference man. A muffed punt followed by a field goal.

Want to argue further over past regimes, you know where to find me man. We can have at it any time you like....




just wow. i cant remember a post with so much crap. you and mac in a contest?




WOW Are we even still alive!!!

How anyone could live thru all of this BS is beyond me.

I have to check myself for a pulse cause I think I died 5 years ago watching this crap y'all call a football team.

I can only hope that this new front office and coaches can put something on the field that will shock me back to life and get my brown and orange blood flowing again.

Call me the paramedics Chud...... Please.
Posted By: Psydeffect Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/26/13 03:28 AM
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I'm not even reading this garbage. I've heard this with every single regime change, read the same boring, lifeless, garbage articles.

Show me.




I agree, I've felt this way about a lot of the articles lately. The same old "coach speak" we've read over and over and over. Win games.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/26/13 01:30 PM
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At least they didn't kill anyone. . .

But seriously, Banner is talking about on the field.



Ok, but for years we have blasted other teams for the character of their players off the field.. if we are going to stop doing that and put up with this kind of guys on our team... then that's what we'll do.
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/26/13 01:33 PM
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Also, Gordon was drafted by Heckert and Holmgren. I don't see how that gets put on the new guys.



You will note that I stated that all 4 of the guys arrested were brought in under this regime.. then added that Gordon was suspended.. I realize he was not brought in under this regime but like it or not, they are now responsible for his issues...
Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/26/13 01:35 PM
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I believe he was talking about more than just the roster. The coaching staff, scouts, executives, etc, all contribute to an organization. I think Banner feels he's filled the building with quality people.



I believe he was too.. but when you have the worst arrest record in the NFL this offseason, you have to be very clear when you start talking about the caliber of "people" you have brought in.

Admit it, if the Bengals had their typical 4 or 5 arrest offseason and then Lewis did an interview about the high caliber of the people they brought in, it would be slapped up in the smack shack immediately and ripped apart...
Posted By: eotab Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/26/13 02:02 PM
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Signed Desmond Bryant, he was arrested on 2/14 for criminal mischief
Signed Quentin Groves, he was arrested on 4/24 for solicitation
Drafted Armonty Bryant, he was arrested on 5/6 for DUI
Signed Ausar Walcott, he was arrested on 6/26 for attempted murder by punching a guy.




Bout time we got some Defensive players with Attitude! I'm tired of all the Choir Boys...


glover...I hope you realized he was talking about Holmgren not Banner. Holmgren was a little hesitant to fire Mangini but stated that two seasons of 5-10 just weren't hacking it and it was time to WIN...of course possibly he said that with anticipation of one of our Softest schedules in 2011...I think he was shocked at how much they lost

BPG n others...agree with the Show me...actually always have. But they say the same thing about buying into the PROGRAM...simply because it is Franchise Building 101...Step I get them to all buy in.

After that 3 things are NEEDED to BUILD which sadly have been missed by our Regimes.
1. TALENT...drafted talent specifically.
2. Coaching. HC, OC and DC
3. Continuity.

Without those 1,2 n 3 buying into the program by everyone is MEANINGLESS. So we got 101 down...young guys easily buy into everything. Football players (especially Defensive) love attack mentality so easy to buy in.

Now its down to 1,2,3.
Talent we have a nice foundation of young players maturing and did well with the few additions we made.
Coaching...Chud is infectious n a Browns fan to boot. Norv n Horton probably the best OC/DC combo we have every had!

Continuity...very reassuring from Banner...he just came from a place where they all worked together for 14 years!

Definitely time for the "SHOW ME" part - 100% with ya there as talk is cheap. But its looking good and I hope we stick with it for more than 2 years, Our last two Directions

JMHO
Posted By: Spiritbro77 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/26/13 06:04 PM
It's funny. Seems like I believe in these guys more than the supposed "supporters" do. There is no reason this team can't win some games and play good football this year. I'm not saying playoffs or anything crazy like that. But 7-9 or even 8-8 while scaring the bejesus out of every team we play is easily do-able. Chud got DA to the pro-bowl. We have another strong armed QB in Weeden and he can do something DA could never accomplish. Take something off the throw and display some touch. If Chud can get that kind of season out of DA, there's no reason to think Chud PLUS Norv Turner can't get similar results with superior talent. We have a very good offensive line that will give him the time to throw those deeper routes everyone is so intent on. We have a stud running back and an OC that thinks he could easily reach 300 carries this year. Meaning, we plan on running the ball. We have a confident defensive coordinator that wants to fire up a pass rush and a number of young players our new staff feel fit that scheme very well. If Horton can get these guys up to speed in time, we should get good pressure on opposing QB's. All we heard from the supporters was how this new staff would change the system to fit the players and how our guys would thrive on that. Well, then there is no reason to believe we won't see that on the field of play in wins and good football.

So why is it crazy to expect to see improvement this year? It's completely possible for this team to make significant improvement and play good football this season. They just have to go out and DO it. I think they can. Come on supporters, show a little confidence in a staff you proclaim to support.
Posted By: PDR Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/26/13 08:32 PM
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Gotta smack another gnat...

Gnats are bad this time of year !





They are attracted to garbage.
Posted By: Spiritbro77 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/26/13 09:15 PM
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Quote:

At least they didn't kill anyone. . .

But seriously, Banner is talking about on the field.



Ok, but for years we have blasted other teams for the character of their players off the field.. if we are going to stop doing that and put up with this kind of guys on our team... then that's what we'll do.




Seems to have worked for the Bengals the last couple of years. They very easily could win the division this season. Of course they don't rebuild the front office and coaching staff every couple years. Knock Mike Brown all you want(he's earned it) but sticking with Marvin Lewis through some rough times is starting to pay off now. That defense is tough and their WCO is scoring enough to win games. Right now I'd LOVE two back to back 10-6 seasons.

The Steelers have a sexual predator at quarterback and the league and fans just FAWN over the .. Big Ben this, and Big Ben that.... sickening.

Compared to that our guys are choir boys.

The league DOES need to drill it through some THICK skulls that hiring a service and being driven around is what RICH folk do. It's stupid to drive yourself anywhere, let alone a club where you're drinking. Take a cue from the REALLY rich. Hire a driver/service and be DRIVEN wherever you go.
Posted By: Spiritbro77 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/26/13 09:38 PM
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But, you sure did want Mangini fired after he didn't think Brady Quinn was a great qb. I remember the threads where you guys would talk about signing petitions and boycottting games in an attempt to get Mangini fired.





Bull! I never called for Mangini's head until the very end. Certainly not the first year. And as for the DA/Quinn debate. You're memory sucks. Yes, I did think Quinn should be given a shot at the job. The year BEFORE Mangini got here. Once the previous regime had left, Quinn wasn't ON Mangini. He was on SAVAGE. Who spent a butload on a quarterback they weren't even giving a shot to. THAT ticked me off(in 08).
Had Mangini come in and dumped both DA and Quinn and drafted a QB, I'd have been cool with that. Instead, he had a competition, and that was fine too. HE chose Quinn as the winner and started him game one. Then quickly went back to Anderson. Do you remember what I wrote at that time Vers? Bet you don't. I wrote that making the switch was fine, he didn't owe Quinn a thing. However, DON'T CHANGE BACK. Rotating quarterbacks in and out on a whim accomplishes NOTHING. So when he went with DA I felt AND wrote that they should stick with DA until the end of the season or he gets hurt. I made no threats of petitions or boycotting games.
I did comment on what I saw and that was some of the worst football I've EVER seen. But I refrained from calling for his head. And when Holmgren was hired and decided to keep EM I really hoped that JUST being a coach and not in charge of everything would turn things around for the club and for hero-boy. In hindsight that was Holmgrens biggest blunder. Not firing him day one. < notice I don't agree with every stupid move made by Holmgren and Heckert.

So, for the record. My opinion is that a brand new head coach isn't responsible for the quarterback he inherits. Unless a team has Tom Brady or Arron Rodgers, a new HC should be able to pick or draft his own quarterback. Example, if Chud and Norv decide Weeden can't do the job, I would completely back them either using one of our other quarterbacks, or trading for one they feel can. Weeden isn't on them. And if this crew drafts a QB next year and then gets fired later, the incoming coach should have the right to bring in his guy. It's his ass on the line if they don't succeed. I felt that way when Mangini took over, and I feel that way now.
Posted By: mac Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/26/13 11:17 PM
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Quote:


Gotta smack another gnat...

Gnats are bad this time of year !





They are attracted to garbage.




PDR...yes they are... ...you might want to clean up a bit...
I just don't think 7 to 8 wins is winning football. I think that is attainable, but I wouldn't call that a good year.

You guys act like Weeden is so much better than DA. I haven't seen it, yet. DA got rid of the ball quick. He didn't make his OL look bad. He had tremendous touch on the deep passes. He threaded 18 yard curls and outs like a needle. He threw for 29 TDs and 19 picks, while Weeden threw for 14 TDs and 17 picks. He led his team to a 10 and 5 record while Weeden guided his team to a 5 and 10 record.

I am not saying Weeden won't be better than DA, but as of right now........he isn't. And it ain't even close. I am tired of reading poster after poster make this claim of how much better Weeden is than DA. He hasn't done squat yet..........other than suck. And until your QB plays effectively, your team will struggle.
Posted By: ddubia Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 12:40 AM
I think you also have to consider too what DA did after he left here, and this may be a vote for the Chud/Norv style offense,... he sucked.

Once DA was out of this offense he didn't do squat. Worse in fact than Weeden did last year. He didn't do well here nor anywhere else he ended up,

None of this is to dispute what you say about how well DA threw the ball here but maybe there's something to the Norv offense being QB friendly.
Posted By: Heldawg Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 02:26 AM
The only route that DA was top 20% was the seam route. And yet you don't even make mention of it. Why?

He also was not good at throwing curls and he didn't have fantastic touch on deep passes. He did have a tight end who could catch anything thrown to him practically within a 10 foot window on curl routes. And he had a ridiculously athletic WR who could make acrobatic catches seem easy and easy catches seem acrobatic.

DA could throw a rope in between the hashes but was not very good or accurate on anything else.

And he was downright pathetic within 20 feet trying to hit a dumpoff.

Even in his "pro-bowl" year intelligent posters knew what we had on our hands was a fluke and I was praying the Cowboys would swipe him away.

Oh well. We don't have to worry about him anymore.
Posted By: jacksondawg Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 03:32 AM
like your post weeden rookie qb ranking 70 derrick anderson 0.00

derrick anderson in his first two years he averaged 32.0 under chuds system so if weeden throwns 73.0 this year we will be in the playoffs sense they spent 100,000,000 million on contracts plus there two high drafts picks.
Quote:

Vers
I just don't think 7 to 8 wins is winning football. I think that is attainable, but I wouldn't call that a good year.




I wouldn't consider that even acceptable at this point there is way to much talent here for us to be even a .500 team. Now I do understand the reality of where we are at we are young yet talented, we have some rather large question marks hanging over some key positions, but I also know that there are enough option available to believe that these issues shouldn't keep this team from being damned good.

Throw on top of that a new staff and new schemes, you know you may suffer at least to start with, but by the mid season mark this team should be rolling, and what I mean by rolling is they should be winning and winning convincingly.

Then there is always the unknown an injury bug could hit and end it there. But we can take a hit in that area and not collapse which has happened to us in the past (see 2010 season). As is true with everything though there are limits within each position group to the numbers of injuries we can sustain. You won't find that not to be true of any team.

Quote:

Vers
You guys act like Weeden is so much better than DA. I haven't seen it, yet. DA got rid of the ball quick. He didn't make his OL look bad. He had tremendous touch on the deep passes. He threaded 18 yard curls and outs like a needle. He threw for 29 TDs and 19 picks, while Weeden threw for 14 TDs and 17 picks. He led his team to a 10 and 5 record while Weeden guided his team to a 5 and 10 record.

I am not saying Weeden won't be better than DA, but as of right now........he isn't. And it ain't even close. I am tired of reading poster after poster make this claim of how much better Weeden is than DA. He hasn't done squat yet..........other than suck. And until your QB plays effectively, your team will struggle.




I think by the time camp closes will have a better feel for who Weedon truly is, that said I think he has the potential to be worlds better then DA ever was. That doesn't mean he is at this moment or that he ever will be for that matter, but he can make all the throws DA could and he can do one thing DA couldn't and that is hit a dump off throw. But for now your 1000% correct in your comparison but that may not be so for much longer.

But for me the bottom line is Weedon can make every throw and DA couldn't. Hopefully you will at least concede that point???

I have been waiting for some one to do a breakdown of the 2007 team and compare it back against this squad and I think when you take in the total team, offense, defense, ST????, and over all depth this squad is worlds better. Now that doesn't make that so nor does it mean this team will compile a similar record, there are to many variables to say that in absolute terms, but IMO this team is better nearly across the board better, yet yes they are unproven. The important thing here is though, we have huge IMO potential, and that is something that has been missing.

We have a 1st rate coaching staff, and we have talent, therefore we have an opportunity to be really really good, dominating good in fact. Will it start that way??

Not likely, but as we move along thru the season and certainly by mid season this team should be turning heads, in fact if there not I'm going to be pretty unhappy. So for me they have to try to eek out a few early wins if they can get to mid season anywhere near .500 they will have a legit shot to make the playoffs. Yup I said the word, I think this team is going to be the talk of the league this year. You know the team that comes out of nowhere and wins way more then anyone though they could?

Quote:

Spirit
And as for the DA/Quinn debate. You're memory sucks. Yes, I did think Quinn should be given a shot at the job. The year BEFORE Mangini got here.





You have often spread poison Spirit IMO. The BQ thing is but one example...

The whole PF thing was yet another example of your being wrong, again IMO. And yes you on a weekly bases put up threads calling for Mangini to be fired, and my memory is NOT faulty in that respect at ALL.

The mistake you say PF made was not firing Mangini to start with, and fail to recognize that the real mistake was hiring PF in the 1st place. But in Jr. fashion he displayed once again his unsteadiness, and we the fans reaped the reward of his unsteadiness.

The real key that is going to unlock the door for us is Haslam, I know many of you won't understand that but Haslam is a huge key. He has to make sure that all parties play nice with each other, and work for the common good of the team. Had we ever had that with Jr we wouldn't have gone thru 13 years of absolute misery.

I know we aren't going to see this huge turnover and constant upheaval we have witnessed over the past what seems like forever. I think the fans and the press know that our days of running the football team ended when Haslam bought the team. A steady hand in the owners box will bring the stability we have been lacking. JTHF

So I say to all if you want to be thankful, truly thankful for something be thankful that Jr. is gone and that Haslam who will keep his hand on the pulse of this team from top to bottom is here. Now we win and change of ownership is the number one reason that happens.

That said I get a sense that your about to leap on the bandwagon Spirit that you like this staff, you like the defense especially and you like the ingredients and possibilities presented by the offense, so we are as close as we have ever been to coming to a kind of agreement, and I see that across the board pretty much. There is more unity among the fan base then ever before when it comes to staff and talent. I think we all know that we are in a better place then we were..

I've said enough..............LOL
Posted By: eotab Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 01:04 PM
Won't really debate on DA...but he's proven he's a back up.

Difference between DA n Weeden...Weeden show accuracy and touch on the check down routes.

DA was totally lost when Defenses got his number and played behind our WRs leaving just the underneath stuff.

He was one of the few QBs who was WELL UNDER 50% completion on passes 10 yards and UNDER...most were in the 70-80%. This is where I think any and all claims of Weeden is better than DA. Stat comparisons with 07 n 2012...pretty meaningless.
1. Different systems.
2. Rookie vs 2nd year player
3. Shotgun college QB taking the MOST SNAPS in the NFL under center.
4. Stretch philosophy not the same.
5. Schedule

Actually this season will be a good comparison not that I care - Cause rather simply put. DA ain't here...if he was I'd be a heck of a lot more curious but the powers to be chose Campbell instead of DA - and DA was on record on stating he would love to follow Chud. We didn't want him...If he had a rats ass chance of being BETTER than Weeden I think we would have signed him for our back up n competition.

JMHO
Posted By: Dawg_LB Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 01:10 PM
I'd rather have gotten Hoyer than DA. And we did, and as you said we are going into camp without DA although there was speculation of bringing him in. I am glad, DA just is backup material and truthfully, Campbell can make all the deep ball throws DA could minus some of the other headaches.

Derek had one good season throwing deep in Chud's offense, and people want to keep saying his name around here. He did nothing in Arizona and nothing in Carolina, both places that needed a QB to step up at the time and the starting job should have clearly been open for the best player to take... clearly there are reasons for that. My thoughts are now DA won't ever be behind a starting nfl center and he'll take the Seneca Wallace route, bouncing around benches and team's second stringers...
Posted By: bonefish Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 01:48 PM

Here take this pill. Count backwards from ten and believe everything I say.

Hows this draft a quarterback who is a leader, can play the position, and has a future. Someone we can count on for say ten years.

Then get into the playoffs for oh, I don't know say eight years straight and win a Super Bowl.

Performance and results are what counts not the endless rhetoric.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 02:11 PM
I feel kinda stupid asking this but can someone define "THE RIGHT WAY" for me.

I mean, I thought/believed the right way was through the draft and I guess to a large extent, I still do. That kinda worked for a year with Edwards and KW2. But, I've seen that tried and I've seen that mostly fail.

Then of course, there is the "get them in FA" plan. We saw that kinda work with Butch Davis but in the end,, it wasn't sustainable due to the CAP issues.

Let's not forget the always popular "combo platter" where you draft well and pick up great FA's. We've really not seen that much in the last 14 years have we? I mean, we've seen it attempted, but just not successfully.

But that appears to be the plan now. Draft well (although there will always be those that think we didn't draft well, just the nature of the beast I guess) and pick up a couple of select FA's to round things out and apparently, this plan can't be done in one year (imagine that)

So, I ask, which is the "RIGHT WAY"?

Or is it that they all can and have worked and we just haven't had the Front Office Staff that could tell good from bad and pull it off here? If that's the case, do we now have that FO?

Mac, please refrain from responding, I know your answer to that last question
Posted By: jacksondawg Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 02:37 PM
Quote:

I feel kinda stupid asking this but can someone define "THE RIGHT WAY" for me.

. jarvis jones
2arthur brown
3warford lg
4that injured ronning that had a 1st round grade
signs
1 dummerville
2wallace who wants to play me
Posted By: guard dawg Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 03:15 PM
Quote:



So, I ask, which is the "RIGHT WAY"?

Or is it that they all can and have worked and we just haven't had the Front Office Staff that could tell good from bad and pull it off here? If that's the case, do we now have that FO?






Since you asked...I was one of those fans wary of Joe Banner when he first came in. I got even more uncomfortable after the Lombardi hire. But since that point my opinion of the FO has been trending up. I don't like everything they have done but to do so would be unrealistic. Overall, at this point, (do I need to say this point includes no actual football) I like what they have done to build the team.
My point wasn't to build DA up...........sheesh.

I am saying that Weeden hasn't shown us anything to inspire so much confidence. I can't fathom how you guys are saying he is more accurate. He was all over the place w/his throws.

I do have to say this though........Held, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 03:47 PM
Quote:

Quote:

I feel kinda stupid asking this but can someone define "THE RIGHT WAY" for me.

. jarvis jones
2arthur brown
3warford lg
4that injured ronning that had a 1st round grade
signs
1 dummerville
2wallace who wants to play me




What?
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 03:54 PM
Quote:

Quote:



So, I ask, which is the "RIGHT WAY"?

Or is it that they all can and have worked and we just haven't had the Front Office Staff that could tell good from bad and pull it off here? If that's the case, do we now have that FO?






Since you asked...I was one of those fans wary of Joe Banner when he first came in. I got even more uncomfortable after the Lombardi hire. But since that point my opinion of the FO has been trending up. I don't like everything they have done but to do so would be unrealistic. Overall, at this point, (do I need to say this point includes no actual football) I like what they have done to build the team.




You weren't alone in the Doubting Banner team.

So I guess you are saying, this could be the front office that uses the "Combo Platter" approach and gets us up and running right?
Posted By: guard dawg Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 05:05 PM
The one condition I would place on the "combo platter" approach as you describe is, being very careful with the use of free agency. IMO, free agency should be relied on sparingly. What we did this year makes sense and although the team was aggressive in FA they were not excessive. Still, draft maneuvering like Banner did to acquire Bess or trades such as getting RB Lewis is a better alternative for acquiring veteran talent.
Posted By: Spiritbro77 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 06:58 PM
Quote:

I just don't think 7 to 8 wins is winning football. I think that is attainable, but I wouldn't call that a good year.

You guys act like Weeden is so much better than DA. I haven't seen it, yet. DA got rid of the ball quick. He didn't make his OL look bad. He had tremendous touch on the deep passes. He threaded 18 yard curls and outs like a needle. He threw for 29 TDs and 19 picks, while Weeden threw for 14 TDs and 17 picks. He led his team to a 10 and 5 record while Weeden guided his team to a 5 and 10 record.

I am not saying Weeden won't be better than DA, but as of right now........he isn't. And it ain't even close. I am tired of reading poster after poster make this claim of how much better Weeden is than DA. He hasn't done squat yet..........other than suck. And until your QB plays effectively, your team will struggle.




He also liked throwing 100 mile an hour fast balls at running backs five feet away. He had ZERO touch on the ball. Weeden has shown he can take some velocity off the ball and throw those touch passes. What has DA done? Zero playoff runs. Can't hold a starting job anywhere. Flat out SUCKED in Arizona while having Larry Fitzgerald to throw to. DA is nothing more than a backup. Now, Weeden may end up as nothing more than a backup as well, but he has more tools in his toolbox than DA. There's a reason our new regime decided to stick with him.
And remember, Weeden was a rookie last year. Broke a few rookie records as well....
7 to 8 wins is improvement and that's what we are looking for. Improvement. I'll take that this year as long as we are in every game. I think we would have done that without changing regimes. Around 8 wins this year, shot at the playoffs next year, deep playoff run the following year. Hopefully, that time table hasn't changed due to the turnover. And with a young team, hopefully we can sustain that..... instead of filling the roster with old guys hoping you can squeeze one playoff run out of them.... For once, a regime change doesn't seem to have resulted in a complete roster overhaul. Or a complete shift in direction. Build through the draft, don't overspend on old guys....
Posted By: Spiritbro77 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 07:10 PM
Quote:

3. Shotgun college QB taking the MOST SNAPS in the NFL under center.





I keep seeing this from different posters. RG3 was NEVER under center in college. Yet no one is giving Shanahan crap for putting him under center in Washington. If you want to run the football you have to have a quarterback that's comfortable under center. Period. If a quarterback just flat out can't line up under center, he can't play in the NFL. I'm glad they had him under center so much last year. Will help when we have him there this year.....and if Norv is right and Richardson gets 300 carries, Weeden will be under center more than some think....
Posted By: Attack Dawg Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 07:12 PM
Quote:

I agree. It's like he sees it as a puzzle and isn't going to force fit any of the pieces.





Almost hate to say this but I get a good vibe from these guys. It seems that they know what they are doing and are not hesitant to make upgrades.
Posted By: Heldawg Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 07:32 PM
I'll put this out to the board...

Has anyone met Vers? Because its easy to proclaim on a message board that you're a professional scout. But by the quality of your posts I simply know that isn't true.

If you don't know that DA's best work came throwing the seam route then it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

I find it sad that you maintain a fraudulent identity to attempt to talk down to people.

Any long time posters want to speak up on behalf of meeting Vers and validating his story?
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 07:38 PM
I've never met him, sorry I can be no help to you on that.
Posted By: jacksondawg Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 07:56 PM
vers is pretty harmless just mention anderson only had a 0.00 qb ranking in his first year.
Quote:

Quote:

3. Shotgun college QB taking the MOST SNAPS in the NFL under center.





I keep seeing this from different posters. RG3 was NEVER under center in college. Yet no one is giving Shanahan crap for putting him under center in Washington. If you want to run the football you have to have a quarterback that's comfortable under center. Period. If a quarterback just flat out can't line up under center, he can't play in the NFL. I'm glad they had him under center so much last year. Will help when we have him there this year.....and if Norv is right and Richardson gets 300 carries, Weeden will be under center more than some think....




No one is saying that RG3 and other QBs don't line up under Center at times ...... but the Browns lined up under Center more often than almost any other team last year.

NFL QBs, overall, threw from the shotgun 66% of the time. '

Weeden threw from the shotgun on only 43% of his throws.

He is a QB who was far more comfortable in the shotgun, but who was forced under Center by a strict offensive philosophy. He was also a QB who had a QB rating of almost 80 from the shotgun. Under Center he was much less effective, with a QB rating of 67.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2013/02/statistics_show_west_coast_was.html

Further, many passes from under Center for QBs across the league could well have been play action passes. I wonder how often QB lined up under Center and dropped straight back to pass. I bet that it's around 20-25% of the time tops.

Again, no one is saying that we should never line up under Center as a look in the passing game ..... but it's becoming more and more infrequent in today's NFL. It's a small section of the playbook, whereas once upon a time, it was the norm.
Quote:

Weeden threw from the shotgun on only 43% of his throws.




A big mistake by Shurmur and his coaching staff last year. Simply put, I think this is not knowing your QB and shoving their offense down his throat rather than adapting to your personnel. An issue beating to death on here. I believe stats were listed on this site about Weeden's numbers under the center vs. the shotgun. I feel like it was better under the shotgun if memory serves me correctly.

This year, we'll see if Weeden can perform in something that may be more suited to his abilities.
Yep, Weeden was much better from the shotgun. The numbers are at the link I posted.
Posted By: bbrowns32 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 09:13 PM
Quote:

There is more unity among the fan base then ever before when it comes to staff and talent...I've said enough..............



And well said indeed! While there remain the difference in opinions on the FO, there is noticeable unity when it comes to staff and talent...
Posted By: The Beast Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 09:22 PM
Blah blah blah. Shut up and win already. This is my last regime. Period.
Posted By: bbrowns32 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/27/13 09:42 PM
Quote:

Blah blah blah. Shut up and win already. This is my last regime. Period.



I trust that you were 'just clicking'...
I never said anything about DA and the seam route. I questioned you because you said he couldn't make good throws on the curl and a couple of other stupid things.

Are you one of those people that feel the need to get others to gang up on one person if that person doesn't agree w/you? I never said I scouted for the pros. I really could care less what you freaking believe. Don't read my posts if you think I am such a fraud. At least I'll be spared from reading your character assassinations.

This is another case of switching the argument to a poster rather than the subject at hand. I do think that the new regime is very focused on what they want to get done. I think they will have the fortitude to see the plan through........and that is the biggest difference between them and other regimes. I think the days of blowing things up every couple of years are over. Thank God!
Posted By: Damanshot Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/28/13 12:23 PM
Pot, meet kettle,, Just sayin...
Posted By: mac Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/28/13 03:08 PM
Quote:

I'll put this out to the board...

Has anyone met Vers? Because its easy to proclaim on a message board that you're a professional scout. But by the quality of your posts I simply know that isn't true.

If you don't know that DA's best work came throwing the seam route then it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

I find it sad that you maintain a fraudulent identity to attempt to talk down to people.

Any long time posters want to speak up on behalf of meeting Vers and validating his story?




Held...I've never met Vers...

He's claiming to be a "professional scout" ?...didn't know that, either !

I'm not claiming to know this guy, Vers...but I will say, this message board has been "had" before...anyone remember Coach 'B' ?

Why would a "professional football scout" spend hours everyday, on a message board?

I don't have the answers, but maybe they deserve an answer.
Posted By: ddubia Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/28/13 03:38 PM
Quote:

I don't have the answers, but maybe they deserve an answer.




You guys crack me up.

I've never met Vers personally either. But I do know that he's been involved in football for many years in his past. No longer I assume. But he has more football knowledge than 99.99% of this board. And 1000% more than you mac.

Besides, what's the difference anyway on whether or not someone has football experience? I don't have any, just a keen interest to learn everything I can, especially where it concerns the Browns.

You read the posts with an open mind and decide if they make sense. If not debate if you wish or move on. That's something that's very hard to do if you're focused on a personality.
Posted By: JulesDawg Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/28/13 03:46 PM
Seriously, some of these guys thrive on drama. I haven't met Vers, but I know people who have. He also doesn't strike me as a liar. A bit antagonistic and full of himself, yes, but not a liar.
Posted By: bbrowns32 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/28/13 03:55 PM
Quote:

He also doesn't strike me as a liar



I have known vers on the board(s) for approx 6 years, and do not believe for one moment that he is a "liar". Totally unfounded. Also, he has never claimed to be a "professional" scout...
Posted By: Psydeffect Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/28/13 04:15 PM
Quote:

I'll put this out to the board...

Has anyone met Vers? Because its easy to proclaim on a message board that you're a professional scout. But by the quality of your posts I simply know that isn't true.

If you don't know that DA's best work came throwing the seam route then it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about.

I find it sad that you maintain a fraudulent identity to attempt to talk down to people.

Any long time posters want to speak up on behalf of meeting Vers and validating his story?




Coach V?
Posted By: guard dawg Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/28/13 04:55 PM
j/c
This is the pure football forum, right? There nothing further from pure football that this type of personalized BS. Same is true when people rip MAC on an overly personal basis. I don't know either of these guys other than what they write on here.

Honestly, the refs ought to do something to squelch this.

I really detest unfairness. It seems obviously unfair to suggest that Ver's claims to be or have been a "professional scout". Using that wording implies that he's claimed to scout at the professional level. I am not aware that he's ever said that. He has said he has experience as a scout. For which he may have been paid, I don't know that but even if he was never compensated for scouting if he was officially designated as a scout that would qualify him for working in a professional capacity as a scout. That's quite likely.

Bottom line is, if everyone including Vers and the people he's rubbed the wrong way resisted the tendency to get so venomous when they disagree the football on this board would be pure-er.
Posted By: Heldawg Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/28/13 11:09 PM
Quote:

I never said anything about DA and the seam route. I questioned you because you said he couldn't make good throws on the curl and a couple of other stupid things.

Are you one of those people that feel the need to get others to gang up on one person if that person doesn't agree w/you? I never said I scouted for the pros. I really could care less what you freaking believe. Don't read my posts if you think I am such a fraud. At least I'll be spared from reading your character assassinations.

This is another case of switching the argument to a poster rather than the subject at hand. I do think that the new regime is very focused on what they want to get done. I think they will have the fortitude to see the plan through........and that is the biggest difference between them and other regimes. I think the days of blowing things up every couple of years are over. Thank God!




Thank you. I'm happy to see that you've owned up to not being a paid scout. It takes some intestinal fortitude to do so and I commend you for that. Nice job.

I hope this will put an end to talking down to posters who disagree with you. You typically start with the "did you even watch the game?" followed by the "you don't know what the heck you're talking about" followed by the "I was employed for my football knowledge were you?" And I really hope that that's the last of that. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say it is now. I trust it is so.

As to my post...you made mention of a hyper-specific example of an "18 yard curl" as what DA did best. What I was saying was curl routes were never much of a strength of his compared to the rest of the league and I would think most people could recognize that the seam route was by far his best throw. Nothing more.

The days of the I'm an "ex-player", "ex-coach" and "ex-scout" are hopefully officially done.

I'm ready to getting back to Pure Football.

Thank you Vers!

....one thing more....I saw a post where someone used "Coach V". Please let's not go there. Vers probably doesn't need any more piling on right now and has owned up properly. Let's all move forward from here.
You are unreal. Quit twisting my words around. I did get paid to scout. Two years. But, it was for a collegiate service. We scouted high school players. I NEVER said I scouted for the pros. I also coached for years. But, it's been a decade since I have done either. I rarely bring it up. You bring it up more than I do. You misinterpret almost everything I say. You make the thread about me rather than what it was intended to be. Why? Because you can't handle people having a differing opinion than you. I have asked you nicely to stop spreading lies about me. You apparently are refusing to do so. What recourse do I have? The refs won't touch you. You are in w/the in crowd here. A lawsuit for public slander? What? I'm telling you.............stop telling lies about me.

To those of you who defended me. I appreciate you having my back, but I would rather not talk about me. This thread is supposed to be about Banner is committed to building the team the right way. I believe he is. Have you noticed that the topic of discussion is far from what it is supposed to be? Ask yourself why that is.
Quote:

. Have you noticed that the topic of discussion is far from what it is supposed to be? Ask yourself why that is.




oooh,oooh I Know I know....

"what is posters spend more time worrying about being right than being objective?"
And as far as personal attacks, obstensively on Vers at this moment...

I could give a rat's A** what someone did in the past... Look at us over the past 14 years, hell if that is what professional scouts come up as talent than who cares if someone professes to be a pro scout or not... I could do as well.

AND Vers has never used that in our "discussions" in the past and we have had some good ones.

there are a few things I learned about him though,

he is opininated.

He will not back down, especially if he thinks he is right.

When wrong he admits it

When right he expects you to do the same.

He can be condescending.

He can be very supportive.

He really doesnt give a crap what I or anyone else thinks about him.

I'd like to have a couple shots of tequila with him, and EO, and Spirit, and Pit and Held and BB32 and BTTB, and anyone else for that matter ..
Posted By: Dawg_LB Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/29/13 12:59 PM
Quote:

I'd like to have a couple shots of tequila with him, and EO, and Spirit, and Pit and Held and BB32 and BTTB, and anyone else for that matter ..




Lol, tequila and opinionated Brown's fans may not be a good mixing combo!

Posted By: eotab Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/29/13 01:14 PM
Quote:

Any long time posters want to speak up on behalf of meeting Vers and validating his story?





I met Vers...2003 our First Monday nite football game vs. Rams. We did shots together and talked at length.

yeah hes is about 5'2" 120 lbs and looked like Jerry Lewis' Nutty Professor... just kidding!

Impossible to validate his story as you say...btw I don't ever remember Vers stating he was a "PROFESSIONAL SCOUT" - I won't go into detail but Vers has a lot of recognition and respect from the OHIO HS football Hot Bed area...One such coach moved on to College Football and respected Vers enough to ask him to keep a tab on the Elite Schools QB Prospects. Ergo scouting.

I'm sure this is true even though I have no way to validate it. I have no 100% knowledge of his Coaching Resume but when I met him he did not OVER STATE his history - I mean if you are going to make stuff up you might as well go for some big time stuff...he did not so I did come away with the sense that he was true blue. Man almost 10 years...I've learned so much football since then including coaching. I hope I keep on learning till the day I die!

Let's just say - He ain't no Coach B...
Easily the most twisted post I have ever read.....

You make up lies then commend Vers for owning up to what? your lies.

And shame on some of the members of this board for playing along with this lie...

I never really liked this board because its a click more so then a football forum. Your post is an example of exactly that you lie and your click swears to it. Good for you and good for those that played along. You have proven you have no integrity or class............

Vers on behalf of those that know better and that have enough class to call this guy for the lies he has told please except my apologies......

Obviously neither of us will be asked to join the click, oh well.......
Posted By: mac Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/29/13 01:32 PM
Quote:

yeah hes is about 5'2" 120 lbs and looked like Jerry Lewis' Nutty Professor... just kidding!





So vers is Banner's brother?...

Posted By: DCDAWGFAN Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/29/13 01:40 PM
Quote:

My point wasn't to build DA up...........sheesh.

I am saying that Weeden hasn't shown us anything to inspire so much confidence. I can't fathom how you guys are saying he is more accurate. He was all over the place w/his throws.



I think the accuracy thing comes from Weeden begin better at knowing how to change speeds... he doesn't throw an 8 yard slant with the same velocity as a 20 yard out like DA did... so I guess you would say that he throws a more catchable ball... and his dump offs are more accurate. On his down the field throws though, I would agree that Weeden hasn't done a lot to distinguish himself from DA in that regard.
Quote:

Quote:

I'd like to have a couple shots of tequila with him, and EO, and Spirit, and Pit and Held and BB32 and BTTB, and anyone else for that matter ..




Lol, tequila and opinionated Brown's fans may not be a good mixing combo!






LOL. You maybe right.

When I lived in Richmond Va, I would invite 10-15 redskin fans and the same number of Cowboy fans to watch the game... great fun, a few fights mostly baseball fights, pushing and name calling.. what a hoot. Got a few things broken but nothing serious.
Posted By: dawglover05 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/29/13 01:44 PM
I agree with that. I feel like they both have trouble getting a feel for how much "arc" they need to put on their throws. In DA's case, it was none...
Posted By: bbrowns32 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/29/13 01:47 PM
Quote:

....I never really liked this board ...



Well, it certainly is "tamer" than the old Browns board and friendlier also. Speaking of the Browns board, are they ever going to get it back and running (not that I would ever likely return as I have my thoughts on that subject and probably should keep them to myself)?
Posted By: Dawg_LB Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/29/13 02:10 PM
Quote:

Quote:

....I never really liked this board ...



Well, it certainly is "tamer" than the old Browns board and friendlier also. Speaking of the Browns board, are they ever going to get it back and running (not that I would ever likely return as I have my thoughts on that subject and probably should keep them to myself)?




Yeah it's funny. "We predict we'll be down for a week, two weeks maybe" - it's been what, two months now or something? I am glad I took the initiative and signed up here instead of waiting on them.

Posted By: sham63 Re: Committed to Building the Right Way - 07/29/13 02:18 PM
Quote:

Quote:

My point wasn't to build DA up...........sheesh.

I am saying that Weeden hasn't shown us anything to inspire so much confidence. I can't fathom how you guys are saying he is more accurate. He was all over the place w/his throws.



I think the accuracy thing comes from Weeden begin better at knowing how to change speeds... he doesn't throw an 8 yard slant with the same velocity as a 20 yard out like DA did... so I guess you would say that he throws a more catchable ball... and his dump offs are more accurate. On his down the field throws though, I would agree that Weeden hasn't done a lot to distinguish himself from DA in that regard.




Not to say you are wrong, but I remember people saying that Quinn threw a more "catchable" ball than Anderson did. I thought it sounded good at the time, but it obviously did not work out.
Posted By: Dawg_LB Re: Committed to Building the RightIWay - 07/29/13 02:22 PM
Good ole' check-down Quinn... don't miss watching him play behind center one bit.
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