I have been giving this a lot of thought lately, and since the NFL always makes changes to the rules in each off-season, there is one I would desperately like to see made this off-season.
Let's make "hits on defenseless receivers/QBs" automatically reviewed upstairs, as TDs are. There have been so many bad calls regarding this type of hit this year, and many that have gone against, of course, the Browns. Either that or make them a coach's challenge. I would prefer that these calls are automatically reviewed though. They are often game changing calls, and directly effect the outcome of many games.
What rules changes would you like to see made this off-season?
One thing that has always bothered me ... when a player goes out of bounds the clock should always stop. I realize it does the last so many minutes of each half, but it's really annoying to see the clock running just seconds after someone steps out of bounds.
If we are going to stop the clock the final few minutes of each half, then why wouldn't we always do it? Either do it or don't.
That reminds me of another calls I would like looked at. When a player is forced out of bounds on a kick cover, I understand that he has to get back in bounds as soon as possible ...... but if a guy is running along the sideline and doesn't immediately get back in bounds, I don't know if that should be a penalty or not.
Take all of the rules that are parts of what used to be spearing, wrap them up into one, and call spearing again.
one i would like to see is the kickoffs moved back to where they was, to allow return specialist a better opportunity to make a impact on games.
The clock should stop within the last two minutes after first downs and resume once the crew are set like how college does it. While NFL crews are fast, they do waste precious times in those crucial situations.
Personal fouls should be reviewed, just like flagrants in the NBA.
I would like to see then stop calling helmet to helmet when the ball carrier drops his head down into the path of the oncoming defenders helmet. That's on the ball carrier, not the defender.
I also really agree with ytowns first post, those calls infuriate me sometimes.
All penalties should be reviewable.
Soooooo many games are decided by the Refs and history has shown many of them to be inaccurate.
Many people would claim that allowing this would "delay the game", but each team would still be limited to 2 wrong challenges just like they are now, and if they are correct and "delay the game", it's better than ruined games!
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If we are going to stop the clock the final few minutes of each half, then why wouldn't we always do it? Either do it or don't.
The NFL needed the time because of how many commercials they run. They want to keep the Sunday times the same, but the extra commercials forced them to make some changes, such as the running clock and all the network promos they do during the live telecast.
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Soooooo many games are decided by the Refs...
Considering the "bang-bang" nature of many calls, it is surprising that they are correct the vast majority of the time...
J/C. I like stopping the clocks after a first down. I also hate that a punt returner has to be given so much space to catch the ball. He has the option of a fair catch. If he doesn't use it, he should be fair game.
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...a punt returner has to be given so much space to catch the ball. He has the option of a fair catch.
In the CFL, there is no fair catch, however, a punt returner must be given 5 yards prior to the catch...
Completely disagree w/that one. You have to give the punt returner space to catch the ball. Far too dangerous, otherwise. And that is even before we made all the stupid rule changes in the name of safety.
Some very good suggestions here:
For me..
1. Put the return game back into kickoffs by placing the ball back where it should be.
2. Pass interference and personal fouls should be reviewed. They are just too much of a game changer to go unchecked. They don't happen all that much to slow the game that much more than what TV has already done to it. Might as well get these calls right if you are going to hand a team an automatic first down and a huge chunk of yards. Especially review these roughing QB hits.
I know I probably sound like a broken record at this point, but I would like to see them take the entire format of the college game and drop it into the NFL with few exceptions.
- I'm fine with the two feet rule. I think it helps display the unbelievable athletic ability of these WR's and TE's.
- I don't like the targeting/ejection rule. Too many borderline calls that even replay didn't help get right. I'm still baffled at the Roby ejection, as well as the one in Georgia's game earlier in the year.
-I'm fine with the 2 minute warning, but I would not be against doing away with it and having the clock stopped at every first down instead. Keep in mind this will never happen, because the NFL loves the 3 minutes of commercials they can jam in during the 2 minute warning.
College games come in roughly at 3 hours just like an NFL game, however there is far more action in a college game, because the NFL drowns you out with more commercials.
JC,
The one thing that irks me seemingly every year is the half-the distance mark-off on penalties. If the yardage isn't there to do the full mark-off, put it on the 1, just like P.I. in the endzone. A personal foul shouldn't turn into a 6 yard penalty just because I'm only on my 11 yard line.
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Completely disagree w/that one. You have to give the punt returner space to catch the ball. Far too dangerous, otherwise. And that is even before we made all the stupid rule changes in the name of safety.
He can signal for the fair catch. If the cover guys are that close, he should be signalling anyway.
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All penalties should be reviewable.
Soooooo many games are decided by the Refs and history has shown many of them to be inaccurate.
Many people would claim that allowing this would "delay the game", but each team would still be limited to 2 wrong challenges just like they are now, and if they are correct and "delay the game", it's better than ruined games!
I completely disagree.
For one, the games would take forever. a 3 hour game, would be closer to a 4 hour game.
Also, some calls are just too borderline. Like the saying goes "there is holding on every play". You could review one play, maybe see that it wasn't holding, but then find a different guy holding on the same play.
I also hate the system the NFL uses for review. Challenges are stupid, it makes a game within the game, and it kills the flow.
Instead of stopping the game and letting the refs on the field have to go and look under some hood to see whether or not they got it right, they should have a group of people in a room with access to all the angles to make that decision.
College football uses, the NHL uses it. MLB of course doesn't use it, but they're 20 years behind anyway.
PI calls would increase 5-fold if the NFL adopted college's 15 yards.
I'd like to see a rule that ticket prices couldn't be raised more than the rate of inflation unless you make the playoffs.
Seriously.....I'd like to see fewer rules.
My only pet peeve. Change the non holding calls to holding. I am so sick of seeing Browns players held, grabbed, mauled, and pulled to the ground while Ref's stand by staring at the holding and never throw the flag. Protect the QB sure, stand by and watch a offensive lineman rape our defense.... NO THANKS
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2. Pass interference and personal fouls should be reviewed. They are just too much of a game changer to go unchecked. They don't happen all that much to slow the game that much more than what TV has already done to it. Might as well get these calls right if you are going to hand a team an automatic first down and a huge chunk of yards. Especially review these roughing QB hits.
A lot of good stuff in this thread.. I think PI calls in the last 2 minutes of the half and the game should be reviewed.. I just wonder how you would handle non-calls that might have been interference.... I'd also give the booth the option to not only say yes it was a penalty or not, I'd give them the authority to change it from defensive to offensive if that was warranted. That said, I'd allow more hand fighting when the ball is in the air, as long as there is no grabbing or holding, I'd like to see them let the guys fight for the ball a little.
As far as the hitting the head of the QB... I think there should be a 5 yard version with no automatic first down when it's pretty clear the guy was just trying to hit his throwing arm or swat at a pass.. then a 15 yard version and automatic first down when there was more malicious intent..
I never understood why the automatic review on a "close call" TD, (to make sure they really did score), but totally ignore a close, non-TD call, (not caring if that potential scoring play was called right or not).
On a close non-TD call the HC has to risk a timeout by challenging that call. Shurmur challenged once and won the review giving us a score when it was called a non-score. That alone should be enough to revisit that rule.
I'd like to see them review it both ways. If they're not sure a Ref can make a TD call correctly then how can they be sure they make a non-TD call correctly? It's the same call.
In other words, if they're not sure the Refs can correctly make a scoring call then review them all. Not just the ones that put points on the board, but also the ones that could be leaving points off the board.
The validity of this change can be demonstrated by merely switching it around and review only the non-TD calls while not reviewing TD calls. It becomes obvious right away that it wouldn't be right. And it's not right the other way around either.
Got it...they should improve these new rules but the set back to that is so many offenses are in hurry up mode. Will there be a proper chance in getting it done right. Even us betcha when all know our O and we are a machine we will be doing the hurrying up thing...Oh also when we get our Super star QB or Hoyer back under center. 
What I would like to see done...is we hear every time from the announcers that the guys in the booth are seeing this in Real Time. I would like to see the review improved by letting them take it to slo motion in their review and even frame by frame if need be...get it right!
I would like to see current rules executed and for them to stop making new rules.
JMHO
I want to comment on "pick plays." Every team in the league is running the fly-post pick combo route and it is absolutely destroying the league right now. It's almost impossible to defend.
The Packers are absolutely guilty of receivers locking up before the ball is out. They were far and away the worst in the league at that. They ran it mostly because they had no way of countering the Tampa-2 looks without the running game. This year, they've run the ball mostly when faced with that. It's coming back out again since there offensive line has been getting injured. The Broncos are the worst, especially at setting blocks on WR screens.
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The Broncos are the worst, especially at setting blocks on WR screens.
Colts were the same way with Peyton. It's obviously something he's adding to the offense.
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The Broncos are the worst, especially at setting blocks on WR screens.
Colts were the same way with Peyton. It's obviously something he's adding to the offense.
on Welker's TD against Washington, Demaryius absolutely crushes the CB trying to come over to cover Welker, then throws his hands up like he was in that spot for a pass. the cameras even showed D.Thomas & Welker on the sidelines yucking it up about the whole thing.
definitely would be nice for the NFL to put a point of emphasis on those plays, but I doubt they would (more scoring = more viewers --- for the most part)
I don't know if that was directed to me Candyman...thank you for wanting to talk football. I do gargle with Listerine but I must have bad breath or something cause it seems nobody wishes to talk football with me here...the few back n forth I get is in humor n not football - maybe Pit is the only one willing to discuss football. Well thanks, hopefully its not a Just clicking thing...lol 
Defenses forever in this league have adjusted. If this becomes a widely used play - It is defensible - It I can assume it is used on obvious passing downs where there are multiple WRs. Team will have to just go to more Cover, 1, 2 or 3 (which would be prevent) - MAN. For example Cover 3 that most are familiar with is the FS and 2 CBs dividing up the Deep Zone in thirds. The proper term for that is Cover 3 Zone. Cover 3 man that I suggest is a prevent type defense. Is Every eligible WR will have a Man - then over top you have the 3 deep zones being covered by DBs. With no man assignments given to those 3.
But defenses will come up with a way of stopping that play if it becomes epidemic. Maybe with more Cover Man??? Something...Defenses are so talented and well coached...there really is nothing that can be thrown at them where a counter action will be used to stop it. The key is to have a counter action for that adjustment
JMHO
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I have been giving this a lot of thought lately, and since the NFL always makes changes to the rules in each off-season, there is one I would desperately like to see made this off-season.
Let's make "hits on defenseless receivers/QBs" automatically reviewed upstairs, as TDs are. There have been so many bad calls regarding this type of hit this year, and many that have gone against, of course, the Browns. Either that or make them a coach's challenge. I would prefer that these calls are automatically reviewed though. They are often game changing calls, and directly effect the outcome of many games.
What rules changes would you like to see made this off-season?
I agree with this, as long as they get it right. In college the refs review for the targeting rule, but even after review sometimes get it wrong. I was watching a game earlier this season that was obvious shoulder to shoulder contact, but the defender was still ejected after review.
Maybe it's just me, but it seems like the "must continue the catch process to the ground" and bang-bang fumbles seems to conflict with each other.
We've all seen a WR make a catch, have two feet down and then roll to the ground and then lose control a second later and then it be called incomplete. I think it's okay, but needs more refinement.
But then, you'll have a WR make a catch, have two feet down and then before he can roll to the ground the defender knocks the ball loose and it's a fumble.
If it's a catch and fumble before he gets to the ground, why is it not a catch the other way?
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The Broncos are the worst, especially at setting blocks on WR screens.
Colts were the same way with Peyton. It's obviously something he's adding to the offense.
It's a reason why I hate the Mannings. I know people like to hate Ton Bray because of his personality but Manning is worse. However people don't see it that way because of his "good ol country boy" personality and his TV ads. He's been a whinny punk ever since his days at Tennessee. He gets away with a ton of cheap passes. Remember when he used to use refs as human shields?
Come playoff time not only do defenses clamp down, but the best refs in the NFL do as well. It's not a coincidence he struggles in the playoffs. He doesn't get away with picks and such. I think Manning is one of the GOAT, but he annoys the hell out of me and I enjoy seeing him fail in the playoffs.
I don't think Manning is a punk at all.
To each their own.
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I don't think Manning is a punk at all.
To each their own.
I wanted to use another word, but it might have been filtered. I don't think he's a "punk" if used in the context of being a thug.
Outside of last year...in the playoffs where I think his arm was a bit tired and showed signs of dead arm. But even last year. I lot of the playoff failures has been that he never had a strong Defense. Same thing with the Saints...they've always had a great offense with Peyton as HC and Brees but its been the Defense come playoff time that would let them down. Both Manning and Brees had that one special year. Where the Defense upped their game during the playoffs.
I know people are shying away from the old adage - "DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS" but I still think it applies. Of course you have to have that AIR Attack on O...but if you have a weak D that probably will get you in the Playoffs but to go deep you need that D to stop the other teams Air Attack!
Oh and if Manning came out in 99 instead of 98...he would have a Statue outside of CBS by now
JMHO
I have a question, how do you tackle a WR running a slant to the middle?
I want to know this, every time I see a play where a WR/RB/TE runs from one side across the middle and is thrown the ball he gets hit and then a defenseless receiver penalty is called. What are you supposed to do? Stop running at the receiver what for him to catch the ball, then get trucked?
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Oh and if Manning came out in 99 instead of 98...he would have a Statue outside of CBS by now
We'd have picked Ryan Leaf.
I have a question, how do you tackle a WR running a slant to the middle?
Shoulder in the ribs...if helmet is there for part of the aggression put the hat on the ball or hands of the WR. - But shoulder into the Ribs. You know picture perfect would be Gipson's hit on Packers TE...you know the one where the REF threw the flag for a 15 yarder. Mean while Gipson did not get a fine cause when they reviewed it he actually tackled perfectly within the rules.
JMHO
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Oh and if Manning came out in 99 instead of 98...he would have a Statue outside of CBS by now
We'd have picked Ryan Leaf.
A serious rule change I would like to see. It would consider touchdowns in the front corner of the end zone. Sure, about 19-22 years ago, announcers started this bull about a player on a rushing play reaching the ball forward over the goalline, and proclaiming, that that is where the spot should be. So, No problem, ... in the Middle of the field, but at the out of bounds marker... it's become ridiculous. I believe the rule should be, when considering spots, and forward progress, that where the ball is when the players body goes out of bounds, even if he is high in the air as he crosses the out of bounds marker, should be the spot. NOT where he can fanagel his arm to put the ball across a line at the last split of a second.
Another thing, where they often get it wrong in my opinion. When considering whether a player on a rushing touchdown in the middle of the field, is across the goal or not, it is this simple. Spot the ball like you would on any rushing play, and if any part of the ball is over the white of the goal line, (just like if any part is across the "chain gang's" metal pole), then it's a touchdown.
And one more thing. Already in the CFL, they have a 20 yard deep end zone, I think. While I don't advocate moving the goal posts back any deeper, I believe that making the end zones, 5 yards deeper, to 15 yards deep, would make for a safer, more enjoyable game.
And when we had Dawson, I think 51+ yard kicks should be worth more points, but we don't have Dawson anymore, so forget it.
And I'm all out of bubblegum.
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in the Middle of the field, but at the out of bounds marker... it's become ridiculous. I believe the rule should be, when considering spots, and forward progress, that where the ball is when the players body goes out of bounds
Is he serious?
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in the Middle of the field, but at the out of bounds marker... it's become ridiculous. I believe the rule should be, when considering spots, and forward progress, that where the ball is when the players body goes out of bounds
Is he serious?
You know, I think he is.
I read an article yesterday, can't remember who wrote it...well known ESPN personality...he had some ideas that actually sounded pretty good.
* No defender can play more than 8 yards off the LOS...this will limit big hits by the safety.
* Allow the O a 12th person...a non eligible blocker to help with pass protection/run blocking...
* Since those 2 help the O...allow bump and run until the ball is thrown and no more half ass inteference calls. Allow the defenders to defend.
* Don't allow the QB to run. Once he crosses the LOS, it is a dead ball. (I would still allow a QB sneak in 4th one type situations)
* No more calls against defenders who simply touch a QBs head...
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Maybe it's just me, but it seems like the "must continue the catch process to the ground" and bang-bang fumbles seems to conflict with each other.
We've all seen a WR make a catch, have two feet down and then roll to the ground and then lose control a second later and then it be called incomplete. I think it's okay, but needs more refinement.
But then, you'll have a WR make a catch, have two feet down and then before he can roll to the ground the defender knocks the ball loose and it's a fumble.
If it's a catch and fumble before he gets to the ground, why is it not a catch the other way?
By what you described, that's the refs not doing their job.
If you catch the ball, get both feet down, then roll to the ground, then lose the ball? That's a catch and if still in bounds and untouched, it's a fumble.
Catch, two feet, "football move" is a completed catch.
The refs get this wrong all the time, see Calvin Johnson a few years ago, a game you were probably at.
If you catch a ball as you are going out of bounds, get two feet in, and are bobbling the ball, or at least not having it secured in your hands, I also believe that isn't a catch but the refs are getting that one wrong all the time too.
I would just like to see universal agreement, and consistency on this type of stuff.
Same goes with QB hits, defenseless receivers, etc... I don't care what you decide just be consistent with it, because right now I think a lot of these players, even the all pro/vets are confused at what's right and what's wrong.
No offense, but those are rule proposals stink and are ignorant. Not allowing your FS to play deep to protect against big plays? Allowing 12 men on offense?
Yea I'm not down for that either...
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No offense, but those are rule proposals stink and are ignorant. Not allowing your FS to play deep to protect against big plays? Allowing 12 men on offense?
Sorry, I don't think so. Big hits over the middle happens because the safety is 18 yards off the line.
You want to protect the QB, give him protection rather than this pansy ass flag throwing.
Sometimes you have to think out of the box.
Sorry man....they may be bold proposals, and you may not like them, but I wouild say they are far from ignorant.
Peen, it's more than thinking outside the box.
How about we think "outside the box of only worrying about player safety?" How do you defend the deep part of the field if you don't allow safeties to play deep? How do they provide cover 3 help outside the hashes to corners on deep passes? Who is left to stop a RB if he breaks through the LOS.
That rule change is ridiculous and was made by someone who doesn't understand the game.
Then, we have the proposed rule of playing 12 on 11? Sheesh, the offense already has been given plenty of unfair advantages.
If those rules were to occur, games would turn into exhibitions, similar to the games that retired players play prior to the Super Bowl.
I'm going to go retro and cement my "geezer status" ...
I'm tired of watching field goals and think they should be de-empasized, so I would:
1.) Reduce the width of the goalposts by a few feet.
2.) Widen the hashmarks on the field, like back in the 60's to cause wider, tougher angles on FGs when the ball is spotted to one side or the other.
3.) Outlaw side-winder / soccer style kicking on FGs or kickoffs (I miss KO returns being an important - and fun - part of the game.). IMO, soccer style kickers kick deeper and more accurately. BTW, there would be no square-toe boots allowed for kicking, and no sledgehammer shoe inserts allowed (ala Tom Dempsey).
On offense, I'd outlaw the helmet mics that allow QB's to get the playcall from the sideline or booth. If you don't have a QB that can call plays, then you'll need to employ hand signals or messenger guards like Paul Brown did way back in the day.
On Defense, I'd do away with the 5-yard chuck rule and allow contact with WRs as long as the ball isn't in the air.
Roughing, or contact to the head or lower leg of the QB penalties that are deemed to be accidental or incidental would be 5 yd penalties and not an automatic 1st down.
There would be no review. The call on the field is the call that stands. If that causes problems, get better refs, or get more of them on the field.
I'm available for the commissioners job ...
Fine line between thinking outside of the box and Insanity
I'm with the purist those rule changes are pretty well Bozo material.
Especially the 8 yard thing.
At first I was against all this Defensive flags for hitting...but now after a couple of years I see how the they have conformed to the rules. Still can hit and displace the ball just have to do it the right way. Sure the Refs get it wrong and usually against us - No call on Harrisons hit on MoMass...Flag on Gipson hit. One of them was withing the rules oddly the one who was flagged.
Many old vets were not complaining cause they would state when they played sure they did a lot of illegal things but using the HELMET was not done much - Most hits were with Shoulders...and the football was Good n hard...this is what I'm seeing more n more.
You want to protect the QB...ban the spread offense not add an unfair advantage of Numbers. That is what football is about. If you don't have a stud LT n RT you got to keep some body in to chip block...not this all out nobody back there then they cry about their QB getting hurt! It rather simple...its called MAX PROTECT...every team has it in their vocabulary and use. They choose not to utilize it... Don't cry to me!
JMHO
The rule I don't want to see is anything having to do with penalizing teams for bullying each other at the line of scrimmage. The game has been so diluted and watered down that it is ridiculous.
No hard hitting. No end zone celebrations. No bad mouthing each other at the line. Might as well put skirts on the players and tell them to act like ladies.
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I just wonder how you would handle non-calls that might have been interference.... I'd also give the booth the option to not only say yes it was a penalty or not, I'd give them the authority to change it from defensive to offensive if that was warranted. That said, I'd allow more hand fighting when the ball is in the air, as long as there is no grabbing or holding, I'd like to see them let the guys fight for the ball a little.
I can't see how you can. Flag needs to be thrown and then reviewed. I do agree with the hand fighting. NFL wants parity, give something back that has been taken away from the DBs over the years. To be honest, I personally don't like the "It's a passing league now" league. (Probably because we haven't had a capable QB in over 20 years)
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As far as the hitting the head of the QB... I think there should be a 5 yard version with no automatic first down when it's pretty clear the guy was just trying to hit his throwing arm or swat at a pass.. then a 15 yard version and automatic first down when there was more malicious intent..
I like that too, but reviewable from the booth.
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College football uses, the NHL uses it. MLB of course doesn't use it, but they're 20 years behind anyway.
It's my understanding that next year in MLB is getting closer. All reviews would be from NY office, but they have a stupid challenge system in place. So that will leave the NFL with the lamest and longest review system. (Maybe they just want to get those extra commercials in....seriously)
I'd actually like to see this one changed this year if possible:
Rule 28b - Section 5 - All hits to the head of the QB will receive a 15-yard personal foul penalty, except Browns QBs.
I'm fine with flagging defensive players that clearly lead with their helmet. There was a really bad one in the Tennessee/Oakland game yesterday that would have easily been an ejection in NCAA.
I just have a problem with the ones that aren't so blatent.
I hate the inconsistency on the calls for hits to the head against QB's. Your hand accidently grazes the helmet. 15 yards, then you have no flag on a very cheap play by the steelers. Be consistent.
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I'm fine with flagging defensive players that clearly lead with their helmet. There was a really bad one in the Tennessee/Oakland game yesterday that would have easily been an ejection in NCAA.
I just have a problem with the ones that aren't so blatent.
I hate the inconsistency on the calls for hits to the head against QB's. Your hand accidently grazes the helmet. 15 yards, then you have no flag on a very cheap play by the steelers. Be consistent.
Wasn't there even an edict to the refs...."When in doubt, throw the flag?" Not that I agree with the philosophy, but come on refs!
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I'm fine with flagging defensive players that clearly lead with their helmet. There was a really bad one in the Tennessee/Oakland game yesterday that would have easily been an ejection in NCAA.
I just have a problem with the ones that aren't so blatent.
I hate the inconsistency on the calls for hits to the head against QB's. Your hand accidently grazes the helmet. 15 yards, then you have no flag on a very cheap play by the steelers. Be consistent.
Wasn't there even an edict to the refs...."When in doubt, throw the flag?" Not that I agree with the philosophy, but come on refs!
You didn't read the small print. When in doubt, throw the flag, if it's a Manning, Brady, Brees, etc...
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One thing that has always bothered me ... when a player goes out of bounds the clock should always stop. I realize it does the last so many minutes of each half, but it's really annoying to see the clock running just seconds after someone steps out of bounds.
If we are going to stop the clock the final few minutes of each half, then why wouldn't we always do it? Either do it or don't.
Games would take FOREVER to complete if that was the rule. I like it how it currently is. I don't want to sit for 4+ hours for a football game to be completed every week. I love football as much as the next guy, but sitting there with the clock stopped after half of the plays does not interest me at all.
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JC,
The one thing that irks me seemingly every year is the half-the distance mark-off on penalties. If the yardage isn't there to do the full mark-off, put it on the 1, just like P.I. in the endzone. A personal foul shouldn't turn into a 6 yard penalty just because I'm only on my 11 yard line.
I agree, especially on the other side of the field. I'm still waiting for defenses to start murdering QBs in these situations since it will only move the ball from the 4 yard line to the 2.
I also agree with the helmet to helmet reviews... ball carriers are making themselves smaller to protect their legs (ironically, because of the helmet to helmet rule) and inducing the very thing that the league is trying to eliminate.
I wouldn't mind having two choices for Offensive Holding - 5 or 10 yards.
TO's have to be called before the kicker becomes set... If you want to ice him - fine, but no more waving off kicked FGs - it's stoooopid.
I agree with reviewing PI calls - WRs are getting way to crafty at inducing interference and the questionable calls ruin the game.
Also - WTH was wrong with the rules for "catching a ball" before? How do we go from secure the ball and come down with two feet -to- catch the ball, come down with two feet, make a "football move" and return to the sideline and make love to your coach without the ball ever flinching from your clutch?
Lastly - what is wrong with a "horse-collar" tackle? In a league that is trying to protect it's players this seems like about the safest way to bring someone to the ground.
I agree with that.
I think that if a penalty cannot be completely enforced. then it should be enforced to the 1.
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Lastly - what is wrong with a "horse-collar" tackle? In a league that is trying to protect it's players this seems like about the safest way to bring someone to the ground.
No it isn't. The problem is guys end up with serious leg/knee injuries as the player gets bent backwards on his own legs. Defenders also tend to end up falling on the back of the tackled players legs.
Earlier I posted some rules changes I read that made some sense to me. Here are a few I propose.
1. Reduce the number of refs on the field. Seems you could get a well called game with 5 on the field. Maybe even 3.....just to keep law and order out there and call the most obvious of calls and get away from all the crap calls made every Sunday.
2. Look at reducing the size of helmets. If you don't want people hitting with their heads, don't let them wear something that encourages them to do so.
On a tanget here.....has there ever been a study that looks at what caused the consussion? Are most caused by players hitting another player in the head with their helmet? Are they caused by players slamming their heads to the ground? Maybe by getting hit in the head by some players knee. Also...are their positions more apt to get a concussion? If we have those answers maybe rules could be geard around the whys of that rather than just say you can't touch a QB head with your hand, no matter how slight.
TO had one of the ugliest leg injuries because of a horse-collar tackle.
I think it's cheap, and I'm glad they took it out of the game.
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TO had one of the ugliest leg injuries because of a horse-collar tackle.
I think it's cheap, and I'm glad they took it out of the game.
No crap? Wow, I guess I've never seen any injuries because of this. Every time I see one now the player looks like their legs come out from under them and they land on their ass. My bad.
Yeah FATE, too often when they land on their asses it's on their own feet. Ouch.
btw, congrats on accepting the facts and not arguing your original point like 50 idiots might have done. Welcome to the board.
'Helmet off' rule needs a minor tweaking:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/29/helmet-off-rule-needs-a-minor-tweaking/Quote:
That memorable goal-line collision late in Thursday night’s game has brought into a focus a safety rule that, in this instance, came into play only after the ball carrier had absorbed a brutal blow to the head.
Steelers rookie running back Le’Veon Bell, who generated 136 total yards from scrimmage on 23 touches, was touched as violently as any football player ever can be as he tried to score the potential game-tying touchdown. Caught in a Malachi Crunch of Ravens, Bell’s helmet came off an instant before he crossed he crossed the plane with the ball for what would have been his second score of the night.
Replay review reversed the call, because Bell’s helmet was off before the ball kissed the front of the white line that borders the end zone.
The rule is as simple as it is unyielding. Rule 7, Section 2, Article 1 states, “An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended,” followed by 18 specific instances of “when.”
At part (r) — the 18th and final “when” — the rule says “when a runner’s helmet comes completely off.”
A safety provision adopted several year back, it’s as black-and-white as a rule can get. Helmet off? Play over. Period.
It doesn’t matter where the player is. Helmet off receives the same treatment as knee down.
And so it was easy for referee Clete Blakeman (who has had an eventual 10 days) to look at the video and determine that, when Bell’s helmet was “completely off,” the ball wasn’t yet touching the goal line.
But something seems unfair and unnatural about the result. Though not airborne, Bell was lunging forward but not yet down. The rules, however, say he was down because his helmet came off.
Moving forward, this specific situation should prompt the NFL to consider modifying the rule to include the phrase “unless the player is in the process of going to the ground.” Indeed, if a player’s helmet comes off while he is going to the ground, no one is going to stop what they’re doing because a player’s helmet has come off. The action will continue until the guy is down; killing the play does nothing to help protect him at that point.
While the officials got the “helmet off” portion of the play right under the current rules, it appears that Ravens cornerback Jimmy Smith may have gotten away with an illegal ramming of the crown of the helmet on Bell. Linebacker Courtney Upshaw also apparently attempted to ram Bell with the crown of Upshaw’s helmet from the other direction, but Upshaw ultimately delivered only a glancing blow.
Lost in the outcome of the play is the fact that it almost didn’t happen at all. With Bell lined up behind quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and anticipating the snap, Bell started to lean forward and nearly lost his balance, which would have drawn an illegal procedure penalty and killed the entire play before it happened.
Based on how Bell and Smith possibly are feeling today, maybe they wouldn’t have minded that alternative outcome.
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'Helmet off' rule needs a minor tweaking:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/29/helmet-off-rule-needs-a-minor-tweaking/
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That memorable goal-line collision late in Thursday night’s game has brought into a focus a safety rule that, in this instance, came into play only after the ball carrier had absorbed a brutal blow to the head.
Steelers rookie running back Le’Veon Bell, who generated 136 total yards from scrimmage on 23 touches, was touched as violently as any football player ever can be as he tried to score the potential game-tying touchdown. Caught in a Malachi Crunch of Ravens, Bell’s helmet came off an instant before he crossed he crossed the plane with the ball for what would have been his second score of the night.
Replay review reversed the call, because Bell’s helmet was off before the ball kissed the front of the white line that borders the end zone.
The rule is as simple as it is unyielding. Rule 7, Section 2, Article 1 states, “An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended,” followed by 18 specific instances of “when.”
At part (r) — the 18th and final “when” — the rule says “when a runner’s helmet comes completely off.”
A safety provision adopted several year back, it’s as black-and-white as a rule can get. Helmet off? Play over. Period.
It doesn’t matter where the player is. Helmet off receives the same treatment as knee down.
And so it was easy for referee Clete Blakeman (who has had an eventual 10 days) to look at the video and determine that, when Bell’s helmet was “completely off,” the ball wasn’t yet touching the goal line.
But something seems unfair and unnatural about the result. Though not airborne, Bell was lunging forward but not yet down. The rules, however, say he was down because his helmet came off.
Moving forward, this specific situation should prompt the NFL to consider modifying the rule to include the phrase “unless the player is in the process of going to the ground.” Indeed, if a player’s helmet comes off while he is going to the ground, no one is going to stop what they’re doing because a player’s helmet has come off. The action will continue until the guy is down; killing the play does nothing to help protect him at that point.
While the officials got the “helmet off” portion of the play right under the current rules, it appears that Ravens cornerback Jimmy Smith may have gotten away with an illegal ramming of the crown of the helmet on Bell. Linebacker Courtney Upshaw also apparently attempted to ram Bell with the crown of Upshaw’s helmet from the other direction, but Upshaw ultimately delivered only a glancing blow.
Lost in the outcome of the play is the fact that it almost didn’t happen at all. With Bell lined up behind quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and anticipating the snap, Bell started to lean forward and nearly lost his balance, which would have drawn an illegal procedure penalty and killed the entire play before it happened.
Based on how Bell and Smith possibly are feeling today, maybe they wouldn’t have minded that alternative outcome.
That was a vicious hit. Wow. My wife is just learning the game and after a look of befuddlement she just burst out with "Another stupid rule - that's why I can't watch this game" lol
I doubt that the rule will be adjusted since it would be so rare that it would be enforced. I can see it now - players caught in a scrum at the goal line would just rip the runners helmet off.
"Personal foul - half the distance to the goal" lol
I'm tired of seeing these giant PI plays that get major yardage. As the game evolves more toward passing they're getting extraordinarily common. Ultimately it's unfair to the defenders.
However I do agree that 15 yards on PI is not a deterrent. I don't know exactly what solution is. However, I can brainstorm.
Maybe remove the "Must make a play on the ball" requirement, if the defender isn't hanging on to the receiver, why call him on it?
All PI plays under 15 yards are "Spot of the foul". Plays exceeding 15 yards are "15 + half of the yardage of the foul exceeding 15 yards (rounded up)"
So if you PI 20 yards from the line of scrimage... it'd be 17 yards.
However if you made a huge PI foul 48 yards away it'd be a 32 yd penalty total.
I fear this might muck things up though because the officials would have to bring a calculator on to the field with them...
I have zero faith in the NFL officials, who come across as some of the least intelligent people involved in pro sports, to be able to do such advanced math.
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I have zero faith in the NFL officials, who come across as some of the least intelligent people involved in pro sports, to be able to do such advanced math.
I watch football on all levels from peewee to pros, and I swear, the NFL refs make more mistakes than any others.
The change I would like to see is same rules for everybody.......too bad that will never happen.
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I have zero faith in the NFL officials, who come across as some of the least intelligent people involved in pro sports, to be able to do such advanced math.
We need to bring back the refs that called the games when the official refs were on strike or whatever. Sure, they couldn't break up a squabble/fight - but least there seemed to be less no-calls... I am not trying to make excuses or anything for our team, but there have been beyond several, clear as day, noticeable no-calls being made. Our defense get held often, and is never called. It just doesn't make any sense...
I'm okay with no-calls if it works both ways. Its like a home plate umpire calling balls and strikes - all you ask is that they be consistent. In general, I think we see too many ticky-tack calls and flags for inconsequential infractions that had no part in a play. The no-call on the Campbell fumble, however, was so blatant that I really don't see how it was missed. For the most part though, I'd like to see a lot less of the zebras when I watch a game. Unfortunately, a lot of them seem to think the game is about them getting facetime on TV.
I would love for the pass interference rules/hand checking rules to be moved back to where they were before Peyton's whining had them changed after the Pats loss. The calls are entirely too subjective and have a huge impact on the outcome of a game. However, I would bet on snow cones in hell before I would lay a dime on this happening.
I would like all passes by our opponents,to be ruled incomplete.They also should only be allowed FGs instead of TDs....it's our only chance at having a winning team otherwise.
There must be some rule that states "if the team with orange and brown is ahead, make up penalties. If its in the fourth quarter, do as necessary to spot ball at orange and browns one yard line"
I think this rule is in section BS - subdivision national fixed league, subsection: protect tv ratings.
I would like this rule repelled immediately.
I would like to reiterate:
Hits to defenseless receivers should be reviewed so that we don't get the garbage calls like we had today. Again.
The NFL was trying to get full time officials at one point ....... and I think that it;s about time to revisit that. Their officiating has become quite a joke all too often.
After watching the game today.. Browns Pats game...I would like to see the Intentional grounding rule changed....
I still want to see non-TD calls in the end zone reviewed. I don't remember the game but yesterday a HC had to throw the red flag to get a non-TD call reversed to a TD.
If the NFL is so determined to get TD calls correct why are they not concerned to get non-TD calls correct as well?
It's mind blowing to me. If they think the refs can get a TD call wrong they have to believe they can also get a non-TD call wrong.
Any scoring or near scoring play should be reviewed
JC
At this point, I would worry more about the refs calling and enforcing the current rules as opposed to changing any. It would seem difficult for them to see and throw flags and honestly, game after game now of no-calls, bad calls and missed calls, I'm sick of it.
The New England game crossed the line.
I'd like it if some website like PFF reviewed the officiating of every game.
Haden was getting 1 very long bs PI call every game for a while there. I remember being happy when one of them was only 15 yards instead of the usual free touchdown.
I'd like to know if this is just a Browns thing or if it is rampant. I'm not sure which would bother me more.
i agree. Its time for full time refs. I understand that the majority of the refs currently have other jobs and this is basically a "hobby". So there would be a huge turn over, i don't think that would be a bad thing. It just doesn't sound like our game yesterday was the only one, its sounds like the refs had 3 or 4 other clunker games that are getting discussed in national media. The browns are overlooked of course....
I think the college system seems to work without too many hiccups. Every play is reviewed. Even those head to head shots on a defenseless receiver to decide whether to eject the player.
Those 15 yard game changers need to be reviewed, same with the spot foul PI. It just can't be up to the refs on the field- they have proven their incompetence time after time. It will take a high profile game with these game changing decisions for anything to be done about it. But since the refs are peeking at the right time with the playoffs looming- it could happen. Could you imagine the uproar if the calls against the browns in the final two minutes occured in a championship game or superbowl--- yikes.
hey, that was my 1500 post. It only took 7 years. A mini-mile stone of sorts. Spent it complaining about the refs, imagine that
What I diislike about the instant replay rule is that, in the most important part of the game, (the 2 minute warning of both halves) the coaches are helpless to challenge anything. I also dislike the limitations as to what can be challenged. Get a game changing pass interference call and it cannot be challenged. Get a game changing 15 yard "hit to the head of a defenseless receiver" that wasn't a penalty, and it's just too bad.
I don't care if it adds a minute or 2 to the game, I would rather see them get it right. Maybe personal fouls could automatically be reviewed, just like TDs are. That process seems to be pretty seamless now. I am just sick and tired of seeing teams gain 15 yards for no good reason.The officials are so scared of not calling a hit on a players that they call way too many. (except for those on our players)
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Those 15 yard game changers need to be reviewed, same with the spot foul PI. It just can't be up to the refs on the field- they have proven their incompetence time after time. It will take a high profile game with these game changing decisions for anything to be done about it.
There was a boat load of BS in the Seattle v. Stillers "Big Game" a few years ago and it didn't change one darn thing. Rooney's and Kraft are the names that control the NFL & zebra corps.
Can we replace the existing rulebook with that of about 1985?
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Those 15 yard game changers need to be reviewed, same with the spot foul PI. It just can't be up to the refs on the field- they have proven their incompetence time after time. It will take a high profile game with these game changing decisions for anything to be done about it.
There was a boat load of BS in the Seattle v. Stillers "Big Game" a few years ago and it didn't change one darn thing. Rooney's and Kraft are the names that control the NFL & zebra corps.
yeah, you are correct. Same can be said about the VIkes/Saints game- but that lead to OT rules being tweaked.
So maybe it is one of the NFL darlings that needs to get screwed before something changes.
jc.
thqat defenseless receiver crap has got to go. i understand the helmet to helmet part, but you can't lay a lick on the reciever when he tries to catch it? to me it basically seems like you have to allow him to catch it, which is stupid.
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jc.
thqat defenseless receiver crap has got to go. i understand the helmet to helmet part, but you can't lay a lick on the reciever when he tries to catch it? to me it basically seems like you have to allow him to catch it, which is stupid.
Agreed. It's sickening.
There was a game earlier this year, forget who know, where the QB was scrambling and right before he stepped out of bounds he threw the ball. A defender hit him (not leading with helmet, hit QB's midsection with his shoulder) as he was throwing the ball (always a good tactic, messes up the throw) and he got flagged. I remember thinking at the time that it looked like the D has to let the QB throw the ball unimpeded. And now you also have to the receiver catch it.
Why not break out the dice and the old APBA boards?
After this week, I'd like to see one thing changed. It's impractical and wouldn't work, but if a ref penalizes a team incorrectly and it costs them the game, I'd like to see the record (W-L) corrected.
Like I said, won't happen, but it would be interesting.
Rule change:
Less equipment. Take away all the excess padding and hard helmets and these guys will wrap and tackle rather than spear, dive, etc. Make the game more about technique and ability.
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There was a game earlier this year, forget who know, where the QB was scrambling and right before he stepped out of bounds he threw the ball. A defender hit him (not leading with helmet, hit QB's midsection with his shoulder) as he was throwing the ball (always a good tactic, messes up the th¡ow) and he got flagged. I remember thinking at the time that it looked like the D has to let the QB throw the ball unimpeded. And now you also have to the receiver catch it.
RGIII has admitted that there have been times when he was approaching the sidelines he has pulled up to try to get the defenders to stop so he could then cut up field for more yardage (says he's seen Vick do it too).. he has also admitted that there have been times where he was planning on running out of bounds but he slows down so the defender can get closer and hit him just as he gets to the line so he can get the penalty...
It would be impossible to make the call, but in my opinion, using the rules deceptively like that to your advantage is worthy of a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty...
I've been saying in recent years...throw a soft layer on the exterior of the helmet to cushion impact/absorb and dissipate energy
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There was a game earlier this year, forget who know, where the QB was scrambling and right before he stepped out of bounds he threw the ball. A defender hit him (not leading with helmet, hit QB's midsection with his shoulder) as he was throwing the ball (always a good tactic, messes up the throw) and he got flagged. I remember thinking at the time that it looked like the D has to let the QB throw the ball unimpeded. And now you also have to the receiver catch it.
RGIII has admitted that there have been times when he was approaching the sidelines he has pulled up to try to get the defenders to stop so he could then cut up field for more yardage (says he's seen Vick do it too).. he has also admitted that there have been times where he was planning on running out of bounds but he slows down so the defender can get closer and hit him just as he gets to the line so he can get the penalty...
It would be impossible to make the call, but in my opinion, using the rules deceptively like that to your advantage is worthy of a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty...
I know I've seen a couple instances where he benefitted from late-hit calls despite not being out of bounds when he was hit.
With the high incidence of critical errors being made by officials in assessing penalties incorrectly, I see no other option for the NFL except an automatic review of any assessed penalty that results in more than 10 yards against the offending team (which would essentially be personal fouls and defensive PIs). The review should be treated like turnovers and scores...no hurrying to snap the ball to avoid the review. It should also be a booth review...the officials on the field should have no further say in the matter. People will say that it will slow the game too much, but the extra time would be minimal and I'm sure the fans by and large would prefer the calls to be correct.
I'd be interested in knowing what percentage of 15+ yard penalties are assessed against defenses. The overwhelming majority would be my guess, and therein lies the rub: these penalties lead to higher scoring, which the league believes is what the fans want in this era of NFL Red Zone and fantasy football, and they lead to improbable comebacks and controversial wins, which build drama and keep the NFL on the tips of everyone's tongues.
They ought to also keep a pool of on-call officials...grade low enough for a game and you get demoted while the highest-ranked official on call takes your place. You go to the end of the queue where you remain, without pay, until your spot is the first in line and someone gets demoted. There needs to be some additional incentive to do your job competently than "you don't get to ref the Super Bowl this year".
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I've been saying in recent years...throw a soft layer on the exterior of the helmet to cushion impact/absorb and dissipate energy
You want a hard outer shell so‰the helmets slide past each other. If you put a soft outer layer, the helmets and neck will take on most of the force.
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I've been saying in recent years...throw a soft layer on the exterior of the helmet to cushion impact/absorb and dissipate energy
You want a hard outer shell so the helmets slide past each other. If you put a soft outer layer, the helmets and neck will take on most of the force.
soft outer layers will simply shred with the repeated impacts. Lineman would be going through several outer shells per game.
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I've been saying in recent years...throw a soft layer on the exterior of the helmet to cushion impact/absorb and dissipate energy
You want a hard outer shell so the helmets slide past each other. If you put a soft outer layer, the helmets and neck will take on most of the force.
soft outer layers will simply shred with the repeated impacts. Lineman would be going through several outer shells per game.
Additionally, there are anti-friction coatings that should resolve the issue...