What are we looking at, at least 7 HC job openings in the next 3 weeks?
Does anyone know what the book is on Horton, as a potential Head Coach? Is there any word (fact or opinion) on how he did on his interviews? How close he may have came to a job last year? What are his weaknesses? Strengths?
Do his strengths line up with the qualities looked for in a Head Coach?
What potential team or teams might be a good fit? What do you think may be the chance of him being here next year?
I have no idea but what I think you are going to get in this thread is a lot of people who were scared to death to lose him 10 weeks ago, that aren't nearly as concerned right now...
Probably not very well considering how our defense has played.
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I have no idea but what I think you are going to get in this thread is a lot of people who were scared to death to lose him 10 weeks ago, that aren't nearly as concerned right now...
Ding. Ding. Ding.
I know he will be invited to interview for every open job just on the Rooney rule alone.
I do know that we made him one of the highest paid DC's in the NFL. I hoping he has a chip on his shoulder and will refuse to be teams Rooney rule lackey and refuse to interview... 
DC dawg...huh? This is the best defense we have had in a long long time. It will only get BETTER not Worse as the young player develop and the Defense is more comfortable to all in year 2, 3 etc.
We statistically show that we are one of the best young Defenses around...and Statistically show that we are one of the worst 3rd down teams and Red Zone teams around...why?
two reasons.
1. Pressure - with more familiarity in this defense we will get onto to 102 and so forth of our blitz packages. We are in 101.
2. Depth - Nickel Dime D...you know the one out there with all those BAD STATS!
We sorely need more depth in CBs and Safeties. When its our Starters against their Starters we kick butt. But once we get into the chess match of Depth...we just don't stand a chance. The level of talent falls so far short from our first tier to 2nd.
Its something that is easily corrected it just takes time to get it done. Either we get upgrades on our Starters who are decent and then the starters we had become the depth...or we upgrade the bottom of our Barrel which would be easier.
So regarding draft...BPA if its CB or Safety or ILB we will go for it and upgrade on our starters. If its mid round and 2nd tier it to upgrade on our depth. And don't forget natural progress from some of the young guys out there now...like McFadden and Posey and Poyer.
JMHO
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I do know that we made him one of the highest paid DC's in the NFL. I hoping he has a chip on his shoulder and will refuse to be teams Rooney rule lackey and refuse to interview...
That doesn't make any sense. He is a black man. Bogus interview or not, the only way he gets a head gig is to interview. How does he know who has a true interest and who doesn't?
I'd say there is a good chance he gets a head job this year.
Our D has improved and most know we haven't won only 4 games because of the D. Sure, we have lost a few games because of the D, but it is mostly because we can't move the ball well enough on O.
I think Horton has done a fine job even with all the critics out there. So I suspect someone will look at him. Not sure he'll get a HC Job or not, but he'll get interviews.
I also believe that he isn't the only fish in the sea. He may not even be the best DC that will come available next year. So this could be a good thing (me being the glass half full kinda guy that I am thinks it's possible.)
I'm actually more worried about holding a core of quality young players together that we could lose to free agency.
That doesn't make any sense. I forget people cannot read my mind... 
He's highly paid here. He doesn't have the reputation to write his own ticket. His opportunity to interview is because of the Rooney rule.
I think we genuinely are not that far from greatness as a team and especially the Defense.
IF...IF we progress in all areas and the somewhat dominating at times Defense gets better to the point that we turn that 3rd down efficiency around and we put out a more than competent QB out there on the Offense we can be a playoff team as soon as next season.
Let alone going deep in the playoffs. With that kind of turn around he would be in a position to "WRITE HIS OWN TICKET" - where now token interview or actual candidate...he would have to make a lot of concessions - its all depends on the ego of the GM or Owner.
As stated I hope he has a chip on his shoulder and refuses the interview not forever. Obviously he would wish to be a HC...but get some of the job done here and take that success to get the RIGHT job not just any Job.
JMHO
I think that we need to look at which teams will have openings next year.
The way I see it .......
AFCE: No changes
AFCN: No changes
AFCS: Houston - Definitely, Tennessee - Probably
AFCW: No changes - I think that Oakland has performed far better than anyone expected, so no changes.
NFCE: Washington - Almost certainly, Dallas - Maybe, NY Giants - Leaning against, even with the bad year
NFCN: Minnesota
NFCS: Atlanta - Tons of injuries, I don't see a change here. Tampa Bay - if they feel that the team is heading in the right direction, then I could see them standing pat.
NFCW: No changes.
The way I see it, Houston, Tennessee, Washington, Dallas, and Minnesota are likely to definite changes. The Giants are unlikely to make a change, and I think that Coughlin will return. I also think that Atlanta will stand pat, as they had a bunch of injuries this year. I think that Tampa Bay could also stand pat if they can win one more game this year.
I think that Dallas will go with an offensive head coach. I just don't see Jones deciding to become a defensive minded owner all of a sudden.
Minnesota has an awful defense this year, but had a good defense last year. Maybe a new voice makes the difference there. They could look at a defensive minded coach to go along with Peterson. Horton would require the team to change from a 4-3 to a 3-4 team. I don't know how they would feel about making that change.
Houston has an upper level defense. Their problems are on offense. I just see their owner as wanting an offensive minded coach.
Washington will go find an offensive minded coach to work with RG3.
Tennessee could go with a defensive minded coach. Their best success since their move has been under Fisher. They are middle of the pack in points allowed, and middle=ish in points scored. They really could go either way. I don't know if they even will be in the market for a new head coach. I don't recall hearing much about them necessarily making a change.
I do think that Horton could find himself outside looking in again next off-season. I think that several teams will almost certainly look for an offensive head coach. I don't know if a 4-3 team will want to make a change to the 3-4.
It will be interesting.
He'll get interviews and he'll get them because he's one heckuva coach. he'll also get a few because of the Rooney Rule. But here's the deal, once he's in front of an owner and GM, he has the chance to impress them.
If he gets an offer to be a HC, he's gone. make no mistake about it.
He can't find a way to stop the short, middle of the field attacks that seemingly every offense that has played us has exploited.
I love the man and think he speaks with heart and I think that the players love him too, but game after game it's the same situation, method or course of action an offense picks to slice us up - and game after game we allow that. I mean HEY lets run a little out route or a curl route and gash the Brown's defense for 20 yards.
And Horton, bringing four man pressures IS NOT WORKING. Why do you continue this? Why not dial in some pressures? His play calling is almost as questionable as Norv's crappy play calling as of recent...
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What are we looking at, at least 7 HC job openings in the next 3 weeks?
Does anyone know what the book is on Horton, as a potential Head Coach? Is there any word (fact or opinion) on how he did on his interviews? How close he may have came to a job last year? What are his weaknesses? Strengths?
Do his strengths line up with the qualities looked for in a Head Coach?
What potential team or teams might be a good fit? What do you think may be the chance of him being here next year?
Judging by the record of the Browns and how they have done (statistics aside), I would not be surprised if he wasn't even considered for a HC position in the NFL in 2014.
I don't know if Horton gets a HC job or not, but losing a (likely) 4-12, 4th Q imploding D-coord would be a disaster.
I'm not sure about 7 openings... I think there are a few that could swing either way....
Houston is open.
I think Shanahan gets fired. I'll mark that as 2.
Will NY finally fire Tom Coughlin? What about Dallas and Garrett?
I don't think Leslie Frazier gets fired... I'm coming around on Greg Schiano not getting fired either. I think Mike Smith gets one more year in Atlanta...
Rex Ryan in NY? Haven't heard a ton about it. Those problems run deeper than HC.
Then there are the Raiders, and who knows with the Raiders.
I think there may only be 4 openings at the end of the year....
I don't think Horton gets one of them. I think he's a year away, although I thought Chud was a year away (my gut feeling was that Carolina was going to be good this year and thus Chud getting looks) and we went early on him.
If there are 7 openings and he's one of the 7 best candidates, I hope he gets the gig. Of course that would leave us open at DC and as long as we don't try to bring in Lane Kiffen's daddy we should be fine. Jeez is he having a bad year.
Last year 8 teams hired new head coaches. Only one team hired a defensive minded coach, Gus Bradley in Jacksonville. The trend is clearly towards an offense first approach.
I suspect Horton will have several interviews to fulfill the Rooney Rule mandate, but my feeling is he is next year's Perry Fewell. Lots of chatter about the candidate, but walking away with no offers.
I do believe Horton will be back with us again next year.
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I do believe Horton will be back with us again next year.
That's good because, despite the capricious fans, I think he is a good defensive coordinator who needs more than one year with a new FO to reach his potential.
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DC dawg...huh? This is the best defense we have had in a long long time. It will only get BETTER not Worse as the young player develop and the Defense is more comfortable to all in year 2, 3 etc.
Not saying he isn't a good coach, just that among Browns fans, he's not the shiny new toy he was early in the season...
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DC dawg...huh? This is the best defense we have had in a long long time. It will only get BETTER not Worse as the young player develop and the Defense is more comfortable to all in year 2, 3 etc.
Not saying he isn't a good coach, just that among Browns fans, he's not the shiny new toy he was early in the season...
somebody forgot to get the services done at 50k miles with regards to our pass rush. that shiny new toy just because junk with no batteries.
I was all excited about the hire and early on it looked like great ! ..
End of the season and we are one of the worst at getting off the field on third down and at the bottom of the heap defending in the red zone .. Not exactly a glowing report .. I don't understand the personal packages ( who is on the field / how many plays a guy gets ) .. I know we get exploited week in and week out over the middle ( ILB problem partly and scheme also ) .. I believe we miss Bryant and Grimes more than we thought we would .. We can be ranked fourth against the run and eight in pass coverage , but we are giving up a bunch of points and we stink in the fourth quarter .. I am not sure what all that means when you add it up ... I hope Banner and Lombo do
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I was all excited about the hire and early on it looked like great ! ..
End of the season and we are one of the worst at getting off the field on third down and at the bottom of the heap defending in the red zone .. Not exactly a glowing report .. I don't understand the personal packages ( who is on the field / how many plays a guy gets ) .. I know we get exploited week in and week out over the middle ( ILB problem partly and scheme also ) .. I believe we miss Bryant and Grimes more than we thought we would .. We can be ranked fourth against the run and eight in pass coverage , but we are giving up a bunch of points and we stink in the fourth quarter .. I am not sure what all that means when you add it up ... I hope Banner and Lombo do
I think it means we have a talented but young defense.
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I have no idea but what I think you are going to get in this thread is a lot of people who were scared to death to lose him 10 weeks ago, that aren't nearly as concerned right now...
Ding. Ding. Ding.
Changes like the weather!
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I have no idea but what I think you are going to get in this thread is a lot of people who were scared to death to lose him 10 weeks ago, that aren't nearly as concerned right now...
Ding. Ding. Ding.
Changes like the weather!
Everything is great in September, becomes cold and bitter in late November, and makes you sick by mid December.
I don't think Horton is a problem.
I hope we keep him.
I highly doubt that teams are jumping to the phones,as this defense has not exactly been as advertised.Kruger and Mingo are a huge reason for it too.I hope he stays but if he does,they have to have OLBs that get sacks,or it's pointless to run the 3-4.No one game plans around,or worries about some guys with 4 sacks.Secondary help is also a major issue.Horton should stay one more year,and finish the job.If not,good luck,thanks for stopping by,and best wishes.
Lets see:
Redskins
Cowboys
Texans
Vikings
Titans
Jets
next tier:
Giants
Lions
Raiders
Bucs
Dolphins
If there is less than six I'll be surprised.
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I don't think Horton is a problem.
I hope we keep him.
I agree with you Vers.
I don't know if the Jets will make a move or not.
To me honest, when the season began, I had Ryan down as a dead man walking. He has done a marvelous job with a team that has major flaws though. Smith has hardly been an asset to the team,. with 10 TD and 21 INT ...... but even he has helped than win a game or 2. They are 6-8 right now, and I truly have no idea how they have done it. They have 12 players on IR, and have had long injury lists lately beyond those players lost for the season. (even though few were starters)
I would not be surprised if he returns next year, and I also would not be surprised if he were to be fired.
Ryan does a great job at orchestrating the Jet's defense and making the calls... I still question his "head coaching" ability though. It's always a circus in Jets land and it start with Rex.
JMO
Oh I agree ..... however he has done a great job this year.
Many people though that this year's Jets team might be had pressed to win 1 game. They have won 6 so far, and play us and at Miami. They have, at least, a solid chance in both games.
Back to the other list, I don;t see Miami making a change unless they directly implicate the head coach in the Martin affair. They also could be better than expected ..... probably ending at 9-7.
Tampa is a real question mark. It appears that the team is responding to their coach, and that Glennon might be a capable NFL QB. I think that Schiano may have bought himself another season at the helm.
The Giants could be a possibility, but the Giants owner has said, absolutely, that Coughlin will be back next year. I think that this year has been a matter of injuries for the Giants. It seems like their whole OL has been beat to death this season. They lost Stevie Brown and Aaron Ross, which hurt their secondary. It seems like every RB they have has wound up on IR. Odd to see that Peyton Hillis is the one who has remained standing.
I don't know how much of Eli Manning's troubles have been because of his OL, but I think that his struggles factor in big to the equation. I think that Coughlin will get another year to "reset" things.
The Lions have bounced back from a 4 win season to win 7 games so far. I really don't have a feeling for them at all. They play in a tough division. This one could probably go either way. I really don't know.
I really don't see the Raiders making a change this off-season. They are another team expected to struggle to win 1 game, and they have won 4. They have a young QB in McGloin, who may, or may not be the answer ..... but the fact that they are taking a hard look gives him some legitimacy. I have a feeling that Smith will return.
It is really hard to say how many teams decide to pull the trigger. There could easily be surprises either way.
If he does go, I'm not worried about it. It's not as if he's been a defensive genius running a radical scheme this season that no other coordinator could comprehend. There have been good showings and bad showings, with a lot of failed attempts to get off the field on 3rd downs and close games out in the 4th. The Browns could get a replacement for him if he goes, and there is plenty of room to grow if he stays. Personally, I'm pretty indifferent about his fate at this point.
My view is that Chud went on record as wanting to bring in someone who is very agressive. Horton fit the bill - did what he was asked. I do think that we hit harder, and tackle better than most Brown's teams I've seen in years.
But, the fourth quarter imploding is a good point.
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My view is that Chud went on record as wanting to bring in someone who is very agressive. Horton fit the bill - did what he was asked. I do think that we hit harder, and tackle better than most Brown's teams I've seen in years.
But, the fourth quarter imploding is a good point.
Didn't defensive rankings improve greatly?
Yes,
It seems many are a bit down on him because the D has tapered off a bit. There was a time where guys on this board were thinking playoffs. Although having to play Weeden put a quick end to that, our defense didn't seem to progress from that part of the season.
I think we have some talent on the defensive side of the ball, but not a lot, and not as much as many teams who haven't performed as well as our defense has.
He's a good coach. Potentially a great D coordinator. Do you guys think he's Head Coach material is the question?
I can go either way on if Horton stays or goes...
That being said its because of this.
If he stays...amazing. The guy is a great defensive coordinator. And the issue is that every team he has coached, the defense has been good not great off the bat. The D in Az had good numbers, but wasnt great his first year, and things mproved every year after that. to the point it was a GREAT defense last year, and without him has still been a very good defense this year.
Yes 3rd down and RZ have been an issue, but this defense is not perfect...we still lack in a few places and need to improve in a number of places...we're also very young and changing COMPLETELY. We went from the soft, bend dont break, read and react defenses of Dick Jauron to this animal in Horton. Yes Rob Ryan went hard when Mangini was here...but that was for a short amount of time, and before that was 5 years of Romeo's soft defense...5 of the last 7 years our defense has been bend dont break, read and react defenses. With two years of crazy with Rob Ryan. Now we're back to crazy go get it defense, but with players that dont necessarily have that mentality...though we added some pieces...
Things havent been perfect, but theyve been MUCH better...If you look at this league...its hard to have a dominant defense...its hard to stop everything because the rules favor the offense so much.
Horton has done a great job so far and will only improve the defense next year. But we need a better ILB...a thudder...a Burfict/Harrison/Porter type.
The reason I'll be okay if he goes is this...
We knew hiring this man that he would be a rental. We knew that he wouldnt be here for a long long time because he is on his way up. He is going to be looking for head coaching jobs EVERY single offseason he is here.
We would be complete idiots if we didnt have a contingency plan, for if he leaves. There is an assistant on staff, that will remain as DC when he leaves to become the head coach. There are prolly assistants also there that will leave with him...but I just dont see a situation where he leaves and we dont have a guy within to promote that wont change our defense much. That has similar philosophies that we can continue building what we are building right now.
If he stays great, if he leaves...we'll be fine, that was in the plans anyway.
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He's a good coach. Potentially a great D coordinator. Do you guys think he's Head Coach material is the question?
I don't think there is any way to know... being a HC is a vastly different skill set than being a DC...
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Yes,
It seems many are a bit down on him because the D has tapered off a bit. There was a time where guys on this board were thinking playoffs. Although having to play Weeden put a quick end to that, our defense didn't seem to progress from that part of the season.
I think we have some talent on the defensive side of the ball, but not a lot, and not as much as many teams who haven't performed as well as our defense has.
He's a good coach. Potentially a great D coordinator. Do you guys think he's Head Coach material is the question?
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the right way to look at the Defense is to look at it play by play and be critical of each play.
I think you look at the whole product.
I do believe the D was good enough this year to win a lot of games with if only we had an offense that could consistently put up points.
I also think when looking at this D you have to take into account what they tried to do this year.
They added Krueger, Mingo and Bryant and some other lesser pieces. Moved a few guys around (sheard) Then asked everyone else that remained to switch from a 3-4 to a 4-3.
Basically, they changed everything on D. I'd say they are doing very well given those realities.
Does Horton get a HC job next year? I think he'll get interviews. All depends on if he impresses someone.
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Yes,
It seems many are a bit down on him because the D has tapered off a bit. There was a time where guys on this board were thinking playoffs. Although having to play Weeden put a quick end to that, our defense didn't seem to progress from that part of the season.
I think we have some talent on the defensive side of the ball, but not a lot, and not as much as many teams who haven't performed as well as our defense has.
He's a good coach. Potentially a great D coordinator. Do you guys think he's Head Coach material is the question?
If guys like Dick LeBeau, Romeo Crennel, and Pat Shurmur were hired as head coaches, then Horton has as good of a shot as anybody.
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Didn't defensive rankings improve greatly?
If you measure the rankings by yards given up, yes.
If you go by points surrendered, only marginally - we have slightly improved on last year going from 23 ppg to currently at 20.6 ppg.
Last year, 23 ppg was good for 19th best in the NFL.
This year, 20.6 ppg is only good for 27th.
So, Horton's defense doesn't give up many yards, but it gives up more points than all but 5 other teams.
Unfortunately, you win by points, not yardage.
Umm, not sure where your stats come from, but we are allowing 25.9ppg, not 20.6, this season and rank 21st with that
We flashed both more good and really bad play. We'e traded constant AVG to below AVG play for up and down play that is below AVG at the bottom line level. That's reality apologists don't want to face and psychoanalyze away conspiracy style to make sense of it.
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Umm, not sure where your stats come from, but we are allowing 25.9ppg, not 20.6, this season and rank 21st with that
We flashed both more good and really bad play. We'e traded constant AVG to below AVG play for up and down play that is below AVG at the bottom line level. That's reality apologists don't want to face and psychoanalyze away conspiracy style to make sense of it.
Yup, my bad... we're scoring 20.6.
So, uhhhh.... yeah. We're worse all around, lol!
Using points allowed, especially when you don't factor in all the miscues on offense and special teams is certainly a scientific means of evaluating the defensive performance of a team.
I didn't really have a problem w/Jauron. I thought he was a good coach. I did think he was a bit conservative, but he kept us in games. However, I think this year's defense is better than last year's, and I really don't care what stats you want to emphasize and which you guys choose to ignore.
Btw---------which team hired Jauron to be their DC this year?
It's absolutely as valid as looking at only yards allowed. Without exception, regardless of extenuating circumstances.
You cannot look at our yards allowed and say "we're the #8 defense!!" and say that we've improved when the bottom-line stat of points shows that there's been a regression.
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Btw---------which team hired Jauron to be their DC this year?
No idea, and don't care - but you're free to go look it up if you are curious. This wasn't and isn't about Jauron.
The yards allowed vs points allowed can point out a couple of things about our d. One of those is starting position for the opposing offense.
While it's not as bad as some posters make it out to be, I think that partially explains why there is such a difference between the yards vs points ranks. Additionally, our redzone offense is terrible.
Between those two points, I think you can explain the difference in ranking.
Starting position didnt matter:
Bears scored from their own 5 and 22yd line
JAX from their 20
NE from their 18,19
Those were the 4th Qtr collapses of just the past three games...
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It's absolutely as valid as looking at only yards allowed. Without exception, regardless of extenuating circumstances.
You cannot look at our yards allowed and say "we're the #8 defense!!" and say that we've improved when the bottom-line stat of points shows that there's been a regression.
I don't recall ever saying that we're the #8 defense. I don't recall saying that we should only look at yards allowed.
I think that it shows bias when posters only point out certain statistics. Some of you are very good at manipulating the truth. DJ is the master of it. He only points out certain stats. It's amazing that those stats support his argument that this FO and coaching staff sucks. You seem to be following his lead.
I have seen others only posting the positive stats, although those guys are fewer and far less vocal.
I think that all the stats should be considered. I also think that the eye test should also be a factor. And frankly, despite comments such as "So, uhhhh.... yeah. We're worse all around," I actually think this year's defense is better than last year's.
I am not asking you--or anyone--to agree. However, I will argue my viewpoint when people say that we are worse than last year.
Top of the day, to ya'
What I was trying to say is that, over the course of a season, a defense that has to deal with more short fields isn't going to give up as many yards, but will tend to give up more points. Simple fact.
We also have a poor redzone D.
Yes, the fact that in the last 3 weeks we've been outscored something like 50-21 in the 4th quarter is a bit disconcerting... I'm sure we aren't saying anything the coaching staff hasn't spent countless hours dissecting and trying to figure out...
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What I was trying to say is that, over the course of a season, a defense that has to deal with more short fields isn't going to give up as many yards, but will tend to give up more points. Simple fact.
We also have a poor redzone D.
very true.
also, please add in that our defense has struggled mightily with 3rd down % and red zone %. it also explains why despite our yardage (and more importantly yds/play) are well ranked but pts/game are not.
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It's absolutely as valid as looking at only yards allowed. Without exception, regardless of extenuating circumstances.
You cannot look at our yards allowed and say "we're the #8 defense!!" and say that we've improved when the bottom-line stat of points shows that there's been a regression.
I don't recall ever saying that we're the #8 defense. I don't recall saying that we should only look at yards allowed.
I think that it shows bias when posters only point out certain statistics. Some of you are very good at manipulating the truth. DJ is the master of it. He only points out certain stats. It's amazing that those stats support his argument that this FO and coaching staff sucks. You seem to be following his lead.
I have seen others only posting the positive stats, although those guys are fewer and far less vocal.
I think that all the stats should be considered. I also think that the eye test should also be a factor. And frankly, despite comments such as "So, uhhhh.... yeah. We're worse all around," I actually think this year's defense is better than last year's.
I am not asking you--or anyone--to agree. However, I will argue my viewpoint when people say that we are worse than last year.
Top of the day, to ya'
Then, perhaps you should read my comments in the context in which they are posted. Such as my comments about scoring defense being in response the question being asked "aren't we ranked better this year?" Or, the comment about "yeah, so we're worse all-around" being in regard to both offensive scoring (the stat I mistakenly posted) and scoring defense... where we indisputably suck this year.
So, climb down from both your ledge and your high horse and engage some reading comprehension skills before you go off on others for "manipulating" things or only looking at what they want to see - like you just did. 
G'day!
My reading comprehension is just fine and that is why I addressed your post.
In keeping w/the closing theme:
Toodles.............
JC
I do admire his prognosticating ability.
He said we would see a different D after T-giving.He sure hit the nail on the head on that one.
He's a politician dressed in coach's warm ups.If he goes,fine,if he stays I hope somebody can keep him from the microphones.
Speaking of which,haven't heard much from him lately.
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What are we looking at, at least 7 HC job openings in the next 3 weeks?
Does anyone know what the book is on Horton, as a potential Head Coach? Is there any word (fact or opinion) on how he did on his interviews? How close he may have came to a job last year? What are his weaknesses? Strengths?
Do his strengths line up with the qualities looked for in a Head Coach?
What potential team or teams might be a good fit? What do you think may be the chance of him being here next year?
As of now - I see him getting interviews.
As of now, I don't see him leaving.
He isn't, according to our D, all he's cracked up to be.
If a team hires him - it might be a good thing for the Browns D.
Where is this "attacking" D we used to hear so much about? If you can't get to the qb.........and the qb burns you consistently ............I just don't get it.
I, and most, thought we had the horses up front to get to the qb - ANY qb. What I, and we, thought, has obviously been proven wrong.
Not only do we not sack the qb, we give up huge gains on 3rd down. Consistency is generally a good thing, unless you consistently give up firsts on 3rd.
I don't think we have to worry about Horton leaving us. I do wonder if we have to worry about him staying.
Question for you.
When do we stop blaming the coaches and start looking at the freaking players that have been here for the past few seasons?
5 wins. 4 wins. 5 wins. And 4 or 5 this year.
Is it always the fault of the coaches, or do we have a lot of mentally weak players on this team?
I think we should be making big changes next years in regards to player personnel. We have a team full of losers. I'm sick of the half-hearted efforts. I'm sick of guys like Haden smiling into the stands when we are getting our clocks cleaned. I'm sick of guys like TJ Ward wuss out on tackles and then be talked about like a freaking pro bowler.
Time for some changes in regards to the roster.
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Question for you.
When do we stop blaming the coaches and start looking at the freaking players that have been here for the past few seasons?
5 wins. 4 wins. 5 wins. And 4 or 5 this year.
Is it always the fault of the coaches, or do we have a lot of mentally weak players on this team?
I think we should be making big changes next years in regards to player personnel. We have a team full of losers. I'm sick of the half-hearted efforts. I'm sick of guys like Haden smiling into the stands when we are getting our clocks cleaned. I'm sick of guys like TJ Ward wuss out on tackles and then be talked about like a freaking pro bowler.
Time for some changes in regards to the roster.
Answer for you: I don't know.
What I do know is prior to the year, we were told we'd be an attacking D. What I do know is general consensus was we had the d line to do it. What I do know is we showed it early in the season. What I do know is later in the season, we didn't show it.
I also BELIEVE Horton isn't going anywhere as a head coach this coming season.
Are our D problems the coach or the players? I don't know. Neither do you. What we both know is we aren't a D you want to trust the game to.
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Question for you.
When do we stop blaming the coaches and start looking at the freaking players that have been here for the past few seasons?
5 wins. 4 wins. 5 wins. And 4 or 5 this year.
Is it always the fault of the coaches, or do we have a lot of mentally weak players on this team?
I think we should be making big changes next years in regards to player personnel. We have a team full of losers. I'm sick of the half-hearted efforts. I'm sick of guys like Haden smiling into the stands when we are getting our clocks cleaned. I'm sick of guys like TJ Ward wuss out on tackles and then be talked about like a freaking pro bowler.
Time for some changes in regards to the roster.
then you need to get rid of DQ, cause he was getting handled today.
you need to get rid of thomas and mack, because they absolutely stunk it up today, the entire ol did.
by your logic, we need to swap out every single player. every. single. one.
the problem isn't the players. we haven't won more than 5 games since 2007. so by your logic, none of the coaches stunk during that time? just all the players? we have probably overhauled the roster every 3 years during that time span, so about 2. you're saying coaching has zero to do with that?
you're telling me its the players fault that baker is running well, but norv once again went against the run and passed way more?
its the players fault that they only rush 3-4 people, even though we were BUILT for rushing damn near every down?
you mean its the players fault for poor clock management, because the coaches can't get the plays out in time?
you mean its the players fault that on 3rd and 1, we run draw plays or throw it?
there are definitely players that have to go. but you wanting to get rid of the few proven playmakers is straight up stupid.
the season is already over with, hell the season has been over with ever since the offense folded in the cincy game after the bye.
will STILL need another ILB, a #2 CB, because skrine got ate alive today, him AND mcfadden. which means we need more depth at DB.
we need a #2 WR, and probably another slot WR, we need a #2 TE. we need 2 G's, and a RT.
thats a lot of needs. you're the main poster preaching to us about giving the FO time and such. the last few games has been the coach's fault just as much as the players.
so if you wanna overhaul the roster, then these bum ass coaches need to go, as well.
Horton hasn't done his job. All he has done is run his big fat mouth and nothing to back it up with. Lousy players doesn't help either. Arizona sure hasn't missed him. Their D is better than ever this year. I think we could use every pick in this next draft on defense it is that pathetic. This DLine is so overrated it's not funny. We need a slew of linebackers also. D'Qell and Robertson ect are not cutting it. Ward and Gibson are are beyond garbage.
We have a good coaching staff and a good group of young players but we do lack depth and we we wear down late. A full year in this system along with strengthening the back end and middle of the roster will help this defense tremendously.
Big Phil, Sheard, Armonty Bryant, Haden, Gipson, Skrine, Mingo and Winn are a nice young group of talent. Then you have the more mature vets like DQ, Rubin, Kruger, Desmond Bryant. I love the direction of this defense and they have surpassed my expectations for year 1.
Desmond Bryant loss was devastating for our 3rd downs. If we can get bryant back along with a year of growth from armonty bryant, I think our 3rd downs will become a strength.
Outside of Haden there's zero respect for our secondary. (except for being whacked by Ward, but not his coverage skills)
If we could provide good coverage making the QB hold the ball a second or two longer our sack total rises.
I like our D but admittedly have not seen the multi formation, fast flying D as promised. Whatever they allowed Kruger to do in Bmore needs replicated here.
But it was preached on this board that our front 7 would make the secondary look improved, not that it was supposed to work the other way around.
I just think the fan base gets too excited over bright, new, shiny things.
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When do we stop blaming the coaches and start looking at the freaking players that have been here for the past few seasons?
5 wins. 4 wins. 5 wins. And 4 or 5 this year.
Is it always the fault of the coaches, or do we have a lot of mentally weak players on this team?
It's not "always" any one person or groups fault.. but every single time I hear players interviewed, they all seem to agree... the mental make-up of the team starts with the coach. He's the guy that sets the tone.
That said, I don't think it's unfixable... Going back to the Panthers.. Carolina was viewed as very mentally weak team and Cam Newton was viewed as one of the leaders in mental weakness.. Did anybody see what they did to the Saints yesterday in the final minute?
Luke Kiechle said after the game in an interview with the radio announcers... "Winning a little breeds confidence, confidence breeds more winning"... I go into every year hoping and praying that this team can win early and get off to a fast start because that would give them confidence.. but in the last 10 seasons, our record in weeks 1-3 is 6-24...
TJ Ward was horrendous in coverage. I absolutely see why we had Robertson guarding guys like Reggie Bush now. He missed tackles, he was no where to be found in coverage, just bad. I was on the fence about him and his contract situation, but I know where I'm at now.
If it's between him or Mack, I let Ward walk.
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I do know that we made him one of the highest paid DC's in the NFL. I hoping he has a chip on his shoulder and will refuse to be teams Rooney rule lackey and refuse to interview...
That doesn't make any sense. He is a black man. Bogus interview or not, the only way he gets a head gig is to interview. How does he know who has a true interest and who doesn't?
I'd say there is a good chance he gets a head job this year.
Our D has improved and most know we haven't won only 4 games because of the D. Sure, we have lost a few games because of the D, but it is mostly because we can't move the ball well enough on O.
Well I'm a black man too but it won't me into the Browns draft warroom.,..I've been tryng since this old board came into existence.. 
but if I were watching the Browns D all year , I'd be a tad bit hesitant to say he's gone. .
Oh I'm sure he will get a few offers but it's one to keep a eye on.
I'd say it would be a pretty hard sell telling your owner that you just hired a guy who has never been a Head Coach and whose Defense was part of a 4-12 team.
Horton will get interviews if he wants them but I doubt he gets hired by anyone this year.
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I'd say it would be a pretty hard sell telling your owner that you just hired a guy who has never been a Head Coach and whose Defense was part of a 4-12 team.
Horton will get interviews if he wants them but I doubt he gets hired by anyone this year.
My guess is, after this year, I bet he won't even attempt an interview. He wants another reclamation project-- he built ARZ defense after a few years and now Cleveland. He signed a four year $8M deal to be our DC....my guess is he stays around for the right opportunity as he is very highly compensated for his position.
He will not get a HC job in this league but if he does not major loss.
Just some random replies:
Jauron was a very good coach. Without big Phil for most of the year and when he returned he wasnt the same and an often injured Rubin last year, he produced similar results as this year.
Horton is a very good coach. This team went through a massive change in philosophy and was really starting to show when Bryant went down. That loss killed the defense. Big Phil and Desmond Bryant opened it up for others to make plays and they made plays of their own. The loss of desmond Bryant is the single biggest factor for the decline of the defense down the stretch.
Big Phil has worn down with the barrage of double teams. The backups arent bad but the drop off is rather significant. Without Des and Phil wrecking havoc in the middle, the secondary gets hung out to dry. What is obvious is that our outside pass rushers arent difference makers without the interior guys forcing plays to them.
It is a young talented team and they should improve with another year in this scheme along with hopefully the return of desmond bryant.
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...Jauron was a very good coach.
I was elated by the hire, and very sorry to see him go. I am not particularly a fan of the 4-3 over the 3-4 as both can get the job done. However, I must say that as a general observation, there has been no bottom line improvement this year over last...disappointing.
Jauron was better here than I expected him to be. I never particularly cared for his overall philosophy, especially speed over all else, particularly in the power running AFCN. He did not make the final call on players, though, so that never became an issue here. As a coordinator, he did a fine job.
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Just some random replies:
Jauron was a very good coach. Without big Phil for most of the year and when he returned he wasnt the same and an often injured Rubin last year, he produced similar results as this year.
Horton is a very good coach. This team went through a massive change in philosophy and was really starting to show when Bryant went down. That loss killed the defense. Big Phil and Desmond Bryant opened it up for others to make plays and they made plays of their own. The loss of desmond Bryant is the single biggest factor for the decline of the defense down the stretch.
Big Phil has worn down with the barrage of double teams. The backups arent bad but the drop off is rather significant. Without Des and Phil wrecking havoc in the middle, the secondary gets hung out to dry. What is obvious is that our outside pass rushers arent difference makers without the interior guys forcing plays to them.
It is a young talented team and they should improve with another year in this scheme along with hopefully the return of desmond bryant.
For this unit to work it needs 3 things:
1-a stud ILB
2-Mingo to add weight/muscle and some moves
3-Ballhawk FS
4-A big corner opposite Haden
O.k that's four, never enough
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I'd say it would be a pretty hard sell telling your owner that you just hired a guy who has never been a Head Coach and whose Defense was part of a 4-12 team.
Horton will get interviews if he wants them but I doubt he gets hired by anyone this year.
The Browns hired Chud, who had never been a head coach before, and whose offense was part of a 7-9 team. I don't think it's a far fetched notion that Horton could be hired as a HC somewhere.
Didn't say it was far fetched. I said it would be a hard sell. And I believe that is true.
As I said, I believe that he'll get some interviews, just not any offers.
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Didn't say it was far fetched. I said it would be a hard sell. And I believe that is true.
As I said, I believe that he'll get some interviews, just not any offers.
Okay, I'll rephrase. It wouldn't be a hard sell.
Hmmm.....
Wonder what is gonna happen tomorrow.
LINK Browns | Ray Horton allowed to explore options
Wed, 01 Jan 2014 10:29:51 -0800
The Cleveland Browns have allowed defensive coordinator Ray Horton to explore other coaching options.
Source: CBSSports.com - Jason La Canfora
Jimmy and Joe admitted in their presser they would be "liberal" in terms of allowing the coordinators and etc interview and such elsewhere.
I'll bet Jerry is already being him to come to Dallas.
Just clicking
I remember when this thread was about how we were going to lose Horton and how we could keep him and maybe where he'd end up...
LOL Amazing how a few weeks can change things
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Just clicking
I remember when this thread was about how we were going to lose Horton and how we could keep him and maybe where he'd end up...
LOL Amazing how a few weeks can change things
hey, is he staying here? or is there word teams are looking at him for the DC spot? i haven't seen anything, but i'm worried we gonna lose him.
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Just clicking
I remember when this thread was about how we were going to lose Horton and how we could keep him and maybe where he'd end up...
LOL Amazing how a few weeks can change things
Yes it is. Some of the ones hoping we wouldn't lose him now have no problem with it because this FO told them they should suddenly think differently.
JC
I remember last year reading he was coming to Cleveland w a major chip on his shoulder cause he didn't land a head coaching gig somewhere.
So far no news of anyone being interested...
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Just clicking
I remember when this thread was about how we were going to lose Horton and how we could keep him and maybe where he'd end up...
LOL Amazing how a few weeks can change things
hey, is he staying here? or is there word teams are looking at him for the DC spot? i haven't seen anything, but i'm worried we gonna lose him.
I've actually not heard a word on the subject.. Just a ton of speculation.
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Just clicking
I remember when this thread was about how we were going to lose Horton and how we could keep him and maybe where he'd end up...
LOL Amazing how a few weeks can change things
Yes it is. Some of the ones hoping we wouldn't lose him now have no problem with it because this FO told them they should suddenly think differently.
I don't know of whom you refer, but I can assure you, it isn't me LOL
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Just clicking
I remember when this thread was about how we were going to lose Horton and how we could keep him and maybe where he'd end up...
LOL Amazing how a few weeks can change things
Yes it is. Some of the ones hoping we wouldn't lose him now have no problem with it because this FO told them they should suddenly think differently.
Not me.
I want Horton as HC.
It sucks what is happening to him, IMO.
I simply look at it this way. Any HC worth his salt, will want to hire his own coordinators. He won't simply walk into a situation where it's dictated to him he must stick with one who is here. Unless those claiming they simply want a yes guy are 100% correct.
The FO gave both Norv and Horton the right to seek employment elsewhere. I believe thinking that no other NFL teams would want Horton as at least their DC is kind of naïve.
So when people try to stick up for the firing of Chud, they have no problem seeing Horton gone too.
Yet those very same people felt Horton was an amazing hire when he came here.
Not saying everyone feels this way, but there are some.
And as far as him becoming the HC? I see about zero chance of this happening. You fire the HC because the team didn't improve. Can anyone point to ways the D improved the last half of the season? And the D had a lot more investments placed in it.
To me that would make about as much sense as preaching continuity then firing your HC after one season.
But then again after considering it, that sounds like something they might do!
No lead is safe with this D. Even if it got the ball back, & got off the field, we lost. A bunch. In a row. And this D played a "softer" D in the end of the year. Not sure whether that is coincidence, but it seems unlikely.
This blame is warranted in my opinion. We kept getting torched by the same things all season. Deciding to blame the coach or players for bad season? So whichever is picked gives the other a pass. You can't divorce the scheme from the play anymore than splitting the dancer from the dance. If a coach can put you in the best position to win, he can also put you in a position to lose. Did you feel better about us and our D at the end of the season or the first part. Horton kept part of his best up his sleeve. I think he is a better coach perhaps, than we have had, but the scheme he chose to run as part of his gameday wasn't successful. Flawed players amplified bad assumptions on his part. And he was too stiff minded to return to what is on paper a good attack D, but not after Thanksfiving or thereabouts.
I learned this as an ignorant fan: We can drop as many as we like, and most of the time opponents complete passes. We do not dial up pressure enough, and the three-man rarely worked. It could, but we wanted to be passive and succeed. The rush mostly disappeared, the corners' cushions got deeper, and we did not challenge receivers successfully. Haden had some great games and I salute all who succeeded.
But we got many losses to consider. If Chud called off the D, then it is on him. The "gameplan" didn't work well. Often.
If he stays, I want the stronger game, not the philosophically flawed D that never found a way to stop stuff that gouged them week in and again.
