Browns Sign Danbsy - DawgTalkers.net

J/C

I like the move. A big physical player in the middle. A upgrade IMO....a nice upgrade over Jackson. Jackson was a nice player, but if the DT's couldn't keep guards off of him he was pretty average at best. Dansby can play through player to make the play.

He had great numbers last season....and you don't luck in to those numbers, especially the tackles number. That means you find your way to the ball.

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Well,the defense just got older,more expensive,and the parking lot got shinier.But did they get better?
Talent wise,maybe,maybe not.Value wise,definately not.
Was Farmer ever in the Navy,and did he drink while at port?

I happen to think Dansby, at 10lbs heavier and two years older I believe more than DQ - is an upgrade at that position. He'll be a bigger impact against the run, and he'll be the same, perhaps a little better - in coverage than DQ.

I think these signings have already improved our defense. JMO

I agree Peen. IMO this is a definite upgrade over Jackson. Dansby is all over the field. The contract is good, he gets paid to come in and perform, if he's good, next year he"s cheap. Also, this fills the leadership role on the defense left by Jackson being gone. Veteran presence, with ability.

I also think this is just a move until they draft the replacement. If they sign a good young LB in the draft, Dansby will be there to learn from.

Still need to replace Robertson

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Pardon me for not being clear.... He'll take up $10M of the available $50M we have remaining for 2014....20%

Depends on how it's structured.

If a chunk of that is signing bonus, then that part will cost us 25% this year, and 25% in each of the next 3 seasons. (or until he is cut, and his bonus accelerates against the cap) If, for example, the Browns gave him $8 million to sign, plus a 1st year salary of $2 million, then his year 1 cap cost would be only $4 million. That seems a likely scenario.

Not all guaranteed money counts against the 1st year of the cap.

Cap space...as in Air and $$$ its ok... How many FA were you thinking we would sign to big contracts. So the hit this year would be 10 mil... The cap will grow and his contract will decline...it was designed with what we got in Space and to relinquish some of the space in the future.

Some times Browns fans are a tough crowd...we get views of negatives if we don't utilize our cap space and then views of negatives if we do

I'm just seeing this for exactly what FA should be - filling the needs before the draft. Lost DQ got Dansby, lost Ward got Whitner. Lost Lava and who did we get yet? Anyone?

jmho - so far so good. Wish we signed Schwartz but he's in NY now. Just got on the board. I like it so far.

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Cap space...as in Air and $$$ its ok... How many FA were you thinking we would sign to big contracts. So the hit this year would be 10 mil... The cap will grow and his contract will decline...it was designed with what we got in Space and to relinquish some of the space in the future.

Some times Browns fans are a tough crowd...we get views of negatives if we don't utilize our cap space and then views of negatives if we do

I'm just seeing this for exactly what FA should be - filling the needs before the draft. Lost DQ got Dansby, lost Ward got Whitner. Lost Lava and who did we get yet? Anyone?

jmho - so far so good. Wish we signed Schwartz but he's in NY now. Just got on the board. I like it so far.

I agree man. Some just complain to complain, like they know what they are talking about.

Not saying I do, but I am not complaing about the money. Screw the money. The cap keeps going up and we have been under the cap by a large amount for a decade, and we have sucked for a decade.

People say why spend on a 4-5 year rental.....well, many draft picks become that...at least the good ones. Look at Mack. The only way we might keep him around is to tag him at 10 mil per year.

In todays NFL, fewer and fewer plays stick with their drafted team more than 4-5-6 years...the contract escalators make it impossible to keep them.

Call me jaded,but I don't share your optimism.Our needs before FA,are the same as they are now.We allowed two players to walk,and we have now replaced them.That's just backfilling holes you've created.
We still need a #2 corner,another or two WRs,a RG,a RB or 2,an ILB,maybe a safety.
Day one for the Browns is a wash.

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Day one for the Browns is a wash.

Good thing there is one more day.

After the first day is when you start finding bargains. We paid a premium for two guys we really needed.

More of the thumper than DQ but couldnt cover a hotdog with mustard lol I would rather have DQ as this is more of a passing league but hey it gives our guys up front more freedom to attack because the guy does have great instincts in the run and he can sniff out the screen.

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More of the thumper than DQ but couldnt cover a hotdog with mustard lol I would rather have DQ as this is more of a passing league but hey it gives our guys up front more freedom to attack because the guy does have great instincts in the run and he can sniff out the screen.

What?

Dude had 19 pass deflections and 4 INTs last season

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Call me jaded,but I don't share your optimism.Our needs before FA,are the same as they are now.We allowed two players to walk,and we have now replaced them.That's just backfilling holes you've created.
We still need a #2 corner,another or two WRs,a RG,a RB or 2,an ILB,maybe a safety.
Day one for the Browns is a wash.

Ok....it's wash as you said, even if I disagree and think we improved.....so what's your beef? If we washed, that also means we also paid similar dollars for similar production......wait.....you have a DQ or TJ jersey

No worries man...the uni's are changing next year. You can rush out next year to get the newest one with a new name on the back......for this year it might suck since you worry about that.

Get a Groza 76.....a Brown 32....or a Kelly 44.....those will become throwback classics.

They played a lot more zone, he is a smart guy with good instincts but he still cant cover lol

Not really feeling this move but its done.

Will wait & see his impact on the field.

Welcome aboard, Karlos.

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More of the thumper than DQ but couldnt cover a hotdog with mustard lol

Where do you guys get this stuff? Everything I'm reading says Dansby was the 3rd best LB in the league at shutting down the pass this year. The tape backs it up. He was amazing last year. DQ is slightly more cerebral and consistent sure but Karlos is flat out a better athlete and more disruptive despite being almost 2 years senior. He shuts down the pass and makes more impact plays than DQ ever has. He was a better LB in all facets than DQ last year and given their respective systems, SHOULD be this year. I love DQ but Upgrade. It's not optimism, it's educated realism.

Pardon me for not getting down on my knees and worshipping all things Haslam.
I guess I'm just not fickle enough for ya.
I see more money being spent,but I don't see this great talent upgrade.We are at the same place we were before FA,with less money to spend.I'm no economist,but that doesn't seem like a good thing.

BTW,I swore on the day they hired Mangini that until I saw proof positive that the Browns were not being run by a bunch of buffoons that I would not spend another dollar on this team.Needless to say,I don't own much Browns crap.Just a Hickerson throwback jersey,that I've owned for years.

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Not really feeling this move but its done.

Will wait & see his impact on the field.

Welcome aboard, Karlos.

I'm feeling the same way... I think we overpaid for both players.

Espcially looking at what other teams payed for DQ and Ward kinda hurts actually... I wonder what the contract is for hawkins.

hopefully all three come in here and kill it and make us forget about our losses

Jackson got more than Dansby.

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I see more money being spent,but I don't see this great talent upgrade.We are at the same place we were before FA,with less money to spend.I'm no economist,but that doesn't seem like a good thing.

Understand your trepidation but we would have had to spend money to keep those guys too.

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Jackson got more than Dansby.

DQ
four-year, $22 million deal with $11 million guaranteed

Dansby
four-year contract worth $24 million. Dansby will receive $14 million guaranteed and $10 million in the first season

how is that more?

I had a brain fart. For some reason I thought Jackson got $20 million guaranteed.

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I had a brain fart. For some reason I thought Jackson got $20 million guaranteed.

Too much avacado in your diet will do that to you.

so we paid $7 mil more over 4 years for two guys that wanted to be here as opposed to trying to convince two guys to stay that didn't want to be here.

How much more would we have had to pay to keep them?

Seems to me that would have taken a hometown anti-discount.

That and I still think they both are upgrades, but that is jmho

4.56 seconds

Karlos Dansby, 40 yard dash time

I think Jackson is a lot slower.

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2014/03/terry_plutos_cleveland_browns_8.html

2. The Browns two big signings are safety Donte Whitner and inside linebacker Karlos Dansby. The Dansby signing is the most intriguing because he gives the Browns one of the things they desperately need -- an inside linebacker who is a playmaker. He had 6.5 sacks and four interceptions for Arizona last season. He played all but three snaps.

3. Dansby will be 33 on November 3. The Browns probably overpaid for the linebacker ($24 million, $10 million guaranteed). But the fact is teams usually overpay for the top free agents. Because of all the losing and lack of stability, the price tag is even higher to bring a player to Cleveland -- unless he happens to be from here, as is the case with Whitner. Dansby should be a significant upgrade over D'Qwell Jackson, who struggled as an inside linebacker in the 3-4 defense.

4. For what it's worth, Profootballfocus.com rated Dansby No. 5 among all inside linebackers last season. Jackson was No. 42, and current Browns inside linebacker Craig Robertson was No. 52.

5. A major issue with Jackson and especially Robertson was pass coverage. Dansby excelled in that area with four interceptions and 19 pass break-ups. Jackson had seven breakups and Robertson had two last season.

6. Dansby has missed only eight games in 10 seasons. It's only two in the last six years. Along with his 6.5 sacks last season, he had four quarterback hits and 11 more quarterback hurries. He played like one of those guys who catches your eye because he seems in the middle of so much of the action.

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Pardon me for not getting down on my knees and worshipping all things Haslam.
I guess I'm just not fickle enough for ya.
I see more money being spent,but I don't see this great talent upgrade.We are at the same place we were before FA,with less money to spend.I'm no economist,but that doesn't seem like a good thing.

BTW,I swore on the day they hired Mangini that until I saw proof positive that the Browns were not being run by a bunch of buffoons that I would not spend another dollar on this team.Needless to say,I don't own much Browns crap.Just a Hickerson throwback jersey,that I've owned for years.

Cool....I won't rag you if you don't see a talent improvement....even if I disagree. I think both Dansby and Whitner are improvements...add in the slill sets compared to the oters....a big improvement, but you keep talking about the increase in money spent.

I have news for you, we were going to have to spend money to keep both TJ and DQ. I am not going to do ther reseach, but DQ was owed enough this may be a cheaper option if you add in what TJ signed for. We were going to pay way more if we had kept them.

Cool about the Hick jersey.....66 is a good number.

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J/C

I like the move. A big physical player in the middle. A upgrade IMO....a nice upgrade over Jackson. Jackson was a nice player, but if the DT's couldn't keep guards off of him he was pretty average at best. Dansby can play through player to make the play.

He had great numbers last season....and you don't luck in to those numbers, especially the tackles number. That means you find your way to the ball.

I agree. He's more physical than DQ and is much better suited at ILB in a 3-4. I thought DQ played very well the two seasons we ran a 4-3. That's why I was very surprised he signed with the Colts(they run a 3-4). It is what it is. We needed an ILB and we signed one. Lost Ward and signed a safety. So far so good.

Indeed.

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I see more money being spent,but I don't see this great talent upgrade.We are at the same place we were before FA,with less money to spend.

So you would have left holes at ILB and safety? Or you would have showered DQ and Ward with the money(in which case we would still have less money). We needed an ILB and a safety. We signed an ILB and a safety. Either way that money gets spent. I think the players we signed are superior to the ones that left in our particular system but that's up for debate. Also, that's presuming DQ and TJ were even willing to SIGN here. Both players seemingly wanted the hell out of Cleveland. Not that I could blame them.

i guess i just have a thing for loving the browns players that are good.

i like the whitner signing, but if this guy is such an upgrade, why didnt the superbowl contending team sign him instead of our "overrated" safety?

why did the playoff contending colts sign DQ instead of the upgrade that is danbsy?

" but DQ was owed enough this may be a cheaper option if you add in what TJ signed for."

That is something I had forgotten.DQ was under contract and cut,he wasn't a FA.If i remember correctly,DQ would have cost more than what was given to Dansby.
That makes that move a plus,and the other is still a push.
I stand corrected,the Browns are on the positive side of the ledger after day 1.

Dansby is not a long term answer but if he plays at a high level for 2 to 3 years he can help the team turn around into a stellar defense.

Legit questions Swish,

Maybe Ward fits the needs of the Broncos better than Whitner, just like Whitner fits our needs better in Pettine's defense.

On the Colts... I have no idea why they would give $22 mil to DQ. Especially to play in a 3-4. then again that did trade for Trich so I am not sure I would them up as great evaluators of talent. For $2 mil over 4 years I take Dansby every time, and yes I did like DQ.

Also lets not forget that both of these guys wanted out.

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I see more money being spent,but I don't see this great talent upgrade.We are at the same place we were before FA,with less money to spend.

So you would have left holes at ILB

we created our own hole.

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I see more money being spent,but I don't see this great talent upgrade.We are at the same place we were before FA,with less money to spend.

So you would have left holes at ILB

we created our own hole.

I don't think DQ wanted to be here anymore. I don't blame him.

He put in his time. Letting him go before FA started was the classy thing to do.

He wasn't worth what he was due, anyway (though to be fair we seriously overpaid for Dansby).

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i guess i just have a thing for loving the browns players that are good.

i like the whitner signing, but if this guy is such an upgrade, why didnt the superbowl contending team sign him instead of our "overrated" safety?

why did the playoff contending colts sign DQ instead of the upgrade that is danbsy?

Ward wanted out. I really don't want a guy in the locker room who's not really buying in. I'm not even sure I care if Mack returns for the same reason. Hate to lose him but I want a united room on this team. Dante and Dansby should both provide good, veteran leadership and desire to be here.

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http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2014recap.php

Browns sign ILB Karlos Dansby (4 years, $24M; $14M guaranteed): C- Grade
Sigh... same old Browns. Only inept teams like Cleveland would pay this much money to a soon-to-be 33-year-old linebacker who is almost certain to decline sometime soon. Granted, Dansby played out of his mind this past season, but he was on a 1-year deal, so he was extremely motivated to land another big contract. Cleveland naturally fell for this charade.

Once again, free agents who take big money to go to inferior franchises almost always disappoint. Dansby has shown that his No. 1 priority is money, so how motivated will he be while playing for a perennial loser? This is a disastrous move by Cleveland's new front office.

-OUCH! For the review.

We probably won't keep him for the full length of his contract, especially if he doesn't play as well as expected because of his age. We all know how cut throat Haslam can be.

I don't know squat about him but at the very least I'm glad we are makin' some moves... I guess?

yeah Walters had Dansby as the 2nd rated ILb in fa and DQ the 7th - our signing at 24 mil was terrible but Indy's for 22 mil was great, go figure that one,

Walters loses credibility on this one

Funny though that in polls I've seen Cleveland is being shown to have the best opening FA day.

Not too concerned what Walters thinks anyway.

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yeah Walters had Dansby as the 2nd rated ILb in fa and DQ the 7th - our signing at 24 mil was terrible but Indy's for 22 mil was great, go figure that one,

Walters loses credibility on this one

one can actually finish their contract the other will probably be too old. Also, we are paying 10 mill this year to a guy that can retire next year really rich.

both are basically one year deals with the option for more

or a guy we can cut loose next year and not hit our cap much.

I still take the 2nd rated player over the 7th rated, cap hit up front where we have the room

Seems like a pretty good signing to me. I am not a contract guy, but that contract seems to make sense. Dansby played very well last year. He can defend both the run and the pass.

I read a few articles and Arizona really wanted to keep him. That is a real positive.

I have doubted Farmer, but thus far, I am impressed by his FA moves.

Both Jackson & Dansby are ball hawks. The biggest difference is Dansby is better in pass coverage & also better at rushing the QB. You don't have to look any further than their stats to see that this is an upgrade.

jc

I'm liking both moves. I am one who thinks DQ wanted out, and we were never going to keep him. I thought we'd keep Ward, but am fine with Whitner, and think he's an upgrade. Then Dansby is an huge upgrade over pretty much nothing if you also think DQ was gone anyway, or if not he's better than DQ. (and I like DQ)
Dansby has been super for years now. I didn't understand why Miami didn't sign him, and now Arizone thinks he's too old as well. I thought they'd sign him for sure, and if not some team on the cups would snap him up. I hadn't even really thought about Karlos even after we let DQ go. I love this signing for what is/was available out there for ILB. Sometimes players peak later. I'm hoping he is one of those players who stay good for years.
Regardless it fills a need, and helps our team. Good moves.

Dansby is a significantly better player than DQ. Better at coverage, better at stopping the run. He's older, but I think Dansby has the ability to play well into his 30's.

Browns should take a run at Arthur Moats to play next to Dansby and we have a significantly improved ILB core.

I agree with that, big time.

Moats would be sweet.

Fantasy land......Moats, Trade for Revis, having gotten Dansby, and Whitner, with studs on Dline, and Haden...........man I'm drooling. lol

I love the attitude that Dansby and Whitner have shown in attacking the challenge of helping turn the Browns around. Dansby was actually part of that kind of thing last year in Arizona, so he knows how it's done.

Karlos Dansby on joining the Cleveland Browns: "We're called to do something great'' | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/03/karlos_dansby_on_joining_the_c.html

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Former Cardinals inside linebacker Karlos Dansby, who agreed to a four-year deal with the Browns Tuesday as a free agent, has high hopes for the Browns.

"Can you tell how excited I am?'' Dansby told cleveland.com. "It's a beautiful day. I'm more than ready and able to take on this challenge of making the Browns a winner.''

He's also excited that former 49ers safety Donte Whitner -- who also agreed to terms Tuesday -- will be joining him in helping to get the Browns to a playoff level. The Browns also reportedly engaged in trade talks with the Bucs for shutdown cornerback Darrelle Revins.

"We're called to do something great -- to do the impossible,'' said Dansby, who's deal is worth $24 million, including $10 million the first year and $14 million guaranteed.

Dansby, 32, replaces linebacker D'Qwell Jackson, 30, who signed last week with the Colts. Dansby is two years older than Jackson, but is coming off the best season of his career, by far. If he plays anywhere close to last year, he'll provide new coach Mike Pettine with a formidable playmaker up the middle.

In 2013, Dansby led the Cardinals with 122 tackles, 6.5 sacks, four interceptions -- including two returned for touchdowns -- 19 passes defensed and 12 tackles for a loss. He broke up more passes than cornerbacks Jerraud Powers (18) and Patrick Peterson (13). He also had 50 more tackles than anyone else on the team.

A second-team All-Pro last year, Dansby set his sights on being named NFL Defensive Player of the Year in 2013. It didn't happen, but he had a monster year nonetheless.

"Nobody's outplayed me," he told reporters in Arizona last December. "I got stats in every category. Leading the league in batted down passes, more than cornerbacks. Interceptions, two for touchdowns. I'm up in there, man. Solo tackles, you name it. Sacks, six-and-a-half. The numbers just jump off the charts, and I'm having fun. It goes all to the guys around me, because they're playing at a high level. It makes me raise my play to a different level."

Dansby, an 11th-year pro, spent his first six years in Arizona after being a second-round pick in 2004 out of Auburn, and helped the Cardinals to the Super Bowl in 2008. In 2010, he left to sign a 5-year, $43 million contract with the Dolphins, including $22 million guaranteed. At the time, it was the highest contract ever for an inside linebacker. But the Dolphins cut him after the 2012 season -- and he signed a one-year deal with the Cardinals worth $2.25 million.

He parlayed that homecoming into a blockbuster deal with the Browns -- $14 million more guaranteed for a total of $36 million guaranteed since 2010 -- by playing out of his mind last season.

"It's unbelievable. It's like PlayStation," Arizona defensive coordinator Todd Bowles told the Associated Press in December. "He's making plays all over the place. He's scoring. He's leading everybody, understands where the plays are going. He's having fun and it's rubbed off on the rest of the defense."

Dansby (6-4, 250) used his release by the Dolphins as motivation to tear up the NFL.

"The whole scenario, the way it went down in Miami, the opportunity here in Arizona — a perfect storm, a perfect stage, in one of the best divisions in the NFL, to show what I got, to show how I measure up with everybody else,'' he told reporters.

He also told The Jim Rome Show last season that he was irked by the Dolphins' move, which cost him his $6.05 million salary in 2013.

"For someone to take money off the table, it was disrespectful," he said. "There was still money in Miami and they took it off my kid's table, so that's very disrespectful to me. …A lot of people questioned a lot of things. I played with a torn bicep last year, no surgery, no nothing, I had 134 tackles, had fun doing it showing people I can play the game with one arm.''

But even though Dansby played the best ball of his career last season, he's still aiming for that Defensive Player of the Year Award.

"I've got some things up my sleeve to solidify myself as the best linebacker in the league, period," Dansby told the Associated Press in December. "I let it slip through my fingers last season. I won't let it happen again."

Before last year Dansby was one of the players I truly wanted the Browns to sign, along with Grimes and Campbell (d'oh). We didn't. This year we do sign him, which makes me personally believe we now have the best ILB since Mike Johnson was in his prime. Having said that, we paid a Redskins-esque price for a 32-year old linebacker.

I've spent much of the last several years watching Dansby. For those who fear him as a signing, take it from me:

We just got MUCH more physical in the middle.

His passes defensed stats from last year are going to represent the high-water mark in his career, but he won't be any worse than Jackson. He's actually an upgrade in that regard. And for those who put stock into the term "intangibles" you'll be happy to know that Dansby was the one guy who could make up for D'qwell Jackson's loss of leadership.

I'm not at all excited about that contract, but if he plays at his current level for two more seasons, it'll have been worth it and then some.

From what I have seen, he is actually capable of defeating blocks ..... which is a huge upgrade in the middle, no matter who on our roster he is compared to. He also seems to have more speed than DQ. He appears to be stronger than DQ. I think that we upgraded significantly.

Last year Dansby has 12 tackles for loss, and 4.5 sacks. He makes plays in the backfield. Dansby had 19 passes defensed, forced 1 fumble, and had 4 INT.

Last year DQ had 1 tackle for loss, and 2 sacks. DQ had 7 passes defensed, forced 1 fumble, and had 1 INT.

I know .... stats ..... but these stats are plays of consequence ..... turnovers and plays for loss. DQ had more tackles than Dansby did, but Dansby is the better player.

The only thing DQ did better than Dansby last year was total number of tackles. However, in terms of difference making plays, Dansby buried DQ.

I think that he's a great signing, even at his age. We'll probably keep him for 2 years, and then move on to his replacement.

Now we just need a player like Daryl Washington to play next to Dansby and we are set.

Haden, Gordon, and Sheard welcoming Dansby and Whitner to Cleveland.

And then there were 5

And speaking of Haden, I'd sure like to get him extended another 4-5 years.

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And speaking of Haden, I'd sure like to get him extended another 4-5 years.

Hopefully after FA n draft that will be a top priority of ours.

It was nice to see Haden on the welcoming committee for our new top FA signings.
He, Sheard and Gordon - lets Lock in Haden...probably work on Sheard afterwards.

jmho

Joe Haden is seriously an ambassador for the Browns. Re-sign him NOW

https://twitter.com/joehaden23/status/443717327415042048/photo/1

Contract details on Dansby:

LB Karlos Dansby signed a four year, $24 million contract with the Cleveland Browns on March 11, 2014. Dansby received $12 million fully guaranteed including a $6 million signing bonus. Base salaries of the contract are $4,000,000(2014), $4,000,000(2015), $5,000,000(2016), and $5,000,000(2017).

So, it's basically a 2year 11mil deal. A roster decision is due after the 2015 season at age 34. We can save 3.5mil by cutting him if he isn't worth 6.5mil for the season.
Good deal !

Dansby and Whitner together ONLY count 9.75mil vs the cap in 2014, so we still have 33-40mil (depending on which list you look at) of cap to burn...plus another 3mil when we cut Campbell.

Having realized that, I wish we would have gone after Byrd too. At this point Clemons is only player left that would be an upgrade on Gipson in FA

So this deal is really not front-loaded in any way.

The cap hits will be something like: 5.5M, 5.5M, 6.5M, 6.5M

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Joe Haden is seriously an ambassador for the Browns. Re-sign him NOW

https://twitter.com/joehaden23/status/443717327415042048/photo/1

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Dansby and Whitner together ONLY count 9.75mil vs the cap in 2014,

isnt that about what we were on the hook for , for DQ, unless he re-negotiated?

speaking of Byrd, NO now has Vaccarro, Byrd, and K.Lewis in their secondary. pretty nice group there.

and I agree, I want us to go after Clemons for FS.

Cap hit this year is almost completely meaningless. We have so much cap money that it is almost impossible for us to get near the cap.

And if we did get near the cap, we'd have to cut half of the new players we signed anyway, to get under the cap next year or the year after that.

PFF H2H comp of DQ-Dansby:

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/443766660181151745/photo/1

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PFF H2H comp of DQ-Dansby

That might have been the most difficult thing I've read all day... I feel like I'm back in the military, always talking in acronyms, lol

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Joe Haden is seriously an ambassador for the Browns. Re-sign him NOW

https://twitter.com/joehaden23/status/443717327415042048/photo/1

Joe Haden seems like he is always the coolest guy in the room.

By the sounds of it in his presser, it sounds like Dansby said he didn't even interview with anyone else... if so, kudos to Ray and Pettine/O'Niel for making the position and etc elaborate enough to secure a likely sought after FA on the first sh-bang!

NRTU

I have for the most part remained silent well color me silent NO MORE….

You must be kidding me Haslam? You are aren’t you?

1st you jump in bed with a snake then you compound the entire situation by firing easily the BEST staff we have had here sense our rebirth then by the time you wake the hell up it’s too late the ship is going down or has sailed you choose…..

Then in a moment of absolute brilliance you let DQ walk and replace him with Dansby, then you re-sign or tender Robertson someone had to go but you got the wrong guy. Instead of shoring up the defense you weaken it and overpay to boot. Why the hell didn’t you keep DQ and add Dansby now you’re talking…. But as is it’s a wash we didn’t get better nor did we get worse we remained the same the only difference is we are now paying more of our cap towards a player while he is good won’t even limp to the last year of the deal… What the hell are you thinking????????

Then the Ward fiasco what can you say reports are Ward signed for 5.5 and we sign a Whitner for 7???? Tell me it isn’t sooooooooooooooooo.

Just the simple FACTS.

We had and I emphasize HAD the beginnings of something special sure it hit a major road block mid-season and I agree with Haslam accountability is critical and correctable. Chud needed a trip to the wood shed no doubt but fired after one season with that staff and the foundation in place. The truth is Ward, nor Mack want anything AT ALL to do with Cleveland they couldn’t wait to get the hell out of town. If they hadn’t tendered Mack he would be long gone by now, and who could blame him?

Right now we should be overjoyed by our signings instead we all KNOW we are right where we started minus about 50mill in contracts.

I would say more but the more I say the madder I get.................................................

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Joe Haden is seriously an ambassador for the Browns. Re-sign him NOW

https://twitter.com/joehaden23/status/443717327415042048/photo/1

Joe Haden seems like he is always the coolest guy in the room.

One, Joe Haden needs to be louder, angrier, and have access to a time machine.

Two, whenever Haden's not on the field, all the other players should be asking "Where's Haden"?

Three--

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Joe Haden is seriously an ambassador for the Browns. Re-sign him NOW

https://twitter.com/joehaden23/status/443717327415042048/photo/1

Fully agree! Pay the man

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NRTU

I have for the most part remained silent well color me silent NO MORE….

You must be kidding me Haslam? You are aren’t you?

1st you jump in bed with a snake then you compound the entire situation by firing easily the BEST staff we have had here sense our rebirth then by the time you wake the hell up it’s too late the ship is going down or has sailed you choose…..

I see why your frustrated and have shared some of it to some extent, but at the end of the day that "BEST" staff went 4-12 and showed no real improvement from the past year. If players were upset by the firing then they have to look no farther than themselves. Make the plays and we go 8-8 and Chud is still here.

Then in a moment of absolute brilliance you let DQ walk and replace him with Dansby, then you re-sign or tender Robertson someone had to go but you got the wrong guy. Instead of shoring up the defense you weaken it and overpay to boot. Why the hell didn’t you keep DQ and add Dansby now you’re talking…. But as is it’s a wash we didn’t get better nor did we get worse we remained the same the only difference is we are now paying more of our cap towards a player while he is good won’t even limp to the last year of the deal… What the hell are you thinking????????

So we shouldn't have signed Dansby unless we kept DQ? We should've invested almost 20 mil for 1 yr at ILB? If DQ was here Dansby wouldn't be 36 at the end of his contract? A lot of double speak. Are you really that upset we tendered Robertson to a contract less than 2 mil? Do we get penalized for having depth or special teams players on our roster? I must have missed that a RFA that is tendered must start the following season. Is this the last day to set the roster? As for limping into the last year of his contract do you think Ware, Byrd or Talib see the end of their deals? Probably not. Its the nature of the beast. A lot of guys do not survive to live out the life of their 2nd contracts

Then the Ward fiasco what can you say reports are Ward signed for 5.5 and we sign a Whitner for 7???? Tell me it isn’t sooooooooooooooooo.

Are you Wards agent? Were you sitting in on the negotiations? How do you know we didn't offer Ward the 7 mil per contract?

Just the simple FACTS.

We had and I emphasize HAD the beginnings of something special sure it hit a major road block mid-season and I agree with Haslam accountability is critical and correctable. Chud needed a trip to the wood shed no doubt but fired after one season with that staff and the foundation in place. The truth is Ward, nor Mack want anything AT ALL to do with Cleveland they couldn’t wait to get the hell out of town. If they hadn’t tendered Mack he would be long gone by now, and who could blame him?

Wait I thought all we had to do was offer Ward 7 mil?

Right now we should be overjoyed by our signings instead we all KNOW we are right where we started minus about 50mill in contracts.

And if we resigned Ward and kept DQ we would still be right where we were minus 45mil. Assuming we signed Ward to the same deal as Whitner and kept DQ at his current contract.

I would say more but the more I say the madder I get.................................................

Look I get why your frustrated. We filled holes we created. But we filled them with players that are arguably better players and a better fit.

j/c..

I like the Dansby pick up and think he's an upgrade over DQ.. love his vocal nature..

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Look I get why your frustrated. We filled holes we created. But we filled them with players that are arguably better players and a better fit.

Bull crap DQ had a very serviceable contract and Dansby and he together are an improvement.. We basically switched out players and gained ZERO...And that's the thing the idea is to get better not stay the same..

Not to mention when you introduce new players to any system or team it takes time for those players to blend in, Ward and DQ had that in the bag...

Bottom line I like both Dansby and Whitner adding either or both players and keeping Ward and DQ truly makes this a better team but these moves do nothing..............................

Im responding to reading Arizona didnt want him back, on NFL Network they were reporting that Arizona offered Dansby a 2 year deal. But with Dansby having airport accomodations on a private jet with Gordon, Sheard, and Haden, he knew there were greener pastors. I didnt know what to think of DQ being cut, especially with the lack of depth at ILB but he was due a $4 million bonus on top of his pay and now the Browns are getting a better player. I wanted both ILBs and spend a pick on ILB to groom in 2 years. I still think the Browns are in the running for another ILB and draft one. There is no reason to be mad at this pick up. Banner would have never made that call. He was a money saver. He left Farmer in great position to make the Browns good for years to come if he does good in this draft. I didnt like the timing of firing Lombardi but with NE having different needs it might not haunt the Browns.

The weakness in this defense was covering TEs and RBs and now they got one of the best. Whats to get mad about? I was pimping this dude thinking he was the missing link of this defense.

At least Haden aint mad losing his buddy Ward to Denver and still working for the team by helping bring in Whitner and Dansby on a private jet. That shows he is willing to help the team in any way and he should be rewarded for doing so. If Dansby doesnt work out, guess what, they cut him like they did DQ, who many liked because he was the best they had while being out of place in a weak 3-4 ILB core. Now they are better, above being a wash IMO. Its possible they added a Pro Bowler who is better then Londen Fletcher at this stage. Nothing to complain about if you ask me.

Well then you should be happy that we didn't go backwards. We lost we gained...who is better than who - break even? Key thing is we lost and didn't go backwards. FA is a need filler, I see us doing that. Draft is the Team builder...we got 10 picks n UDFAs for that.

DQ was in line to receive something like $10 million between salary and roster bonus. That's hardly a serviceable contract.

He also doesn't fir the 3-4 defense. Honestly, I don't know how anyone could argue against that. Dansby is a huge upgrade in the 3-4 over DQ.

Plus, Farmer and Pettine have said that they are not going to keep a player who does not fit, even if they can get him at a bargain. DQ wasn't a bargain, and he didn't fit, so there was nochance of him remaining.

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DQ was in line to receive something like $10 million between salary and roster bonus. That's hardly a serviceable contract.

He also doesn't fir the 3-4 defense. Honestly, I don't know how anyone could argue against that. Dansby is a huge upgrade in the 3-4 over DQ.

Plus, Farmer and Pettine have said that they are not going to keep a player who does not fit, even if they can get him at a bargain. DQ wasn't a bargain, and he didn't fit, so there was nochance of him remaining.

There you have it.

We let our emotions run too high

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DQ was in line to receive something like $10 million between salary and roster bonus.

and the cap hit for Dansby + Whitner = $9.5mil for 2014

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DQ was in line to receive something like $10 million between salary and roster bonus. That's hardly a serviceable contract.

He also doesn't fir the 3-4 defense. Honestly, I don't know how anyone could argue against that. Dansby is a huge upgrade in the 3-4 over DQ.

Plus, Farmer and Pettine have said that they are not going to keep a player who does not fit, even if they can get him at a bargain. DQ wasn't a bargain, and he didn't fit, so there was nochance of him remaining.

There you have it.
We let our emotions run too high

And that's to be expected. Fan is, after all, short for fanatic. We all have our own favorite players, and many people refuse to let go of their favoites no matter what happens with them on the field.

DQ was a fantastic ambassador for Cleveland and the Browns. However, he was a very average player on the field. He led the team in tackles most years .... yet so did other guys fans loved, like Andra Davis and Wali Rainer. They were also "good" players, but never difference makers. We need difference makers. DQ was never going to be a difference maker. He's not a good pass rusher. He doesn't make plays in the backfield. He's decent in pass cover, though not a top tier player. He is awful at shedding blocks. In the right defense, as a member of a 4-3 defense, he can be effective, but he's a below average 3-4 ILB.

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Joe Haden is seriously an ambassador for the Browns. Re-sign him NOW

https://twitter.com/joehaden23/status/443717327415042048/photo/1

Joe Haden seems like he is always the coolest guy in the room.

One, Joe Haden needs to be louder, angrier, and have access to a time machine.

Two, whenever Haden's not on the field, all the other players should be asking "Where's Haden"?

Three--

This can't go unapplauded

Don't like this move. Gave him too much cash.

IDK if DQ is worth $22 mil, Dansby is worth $24

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His salary cap cost had been slated to be $8.1 million

You want to state facts then fine do it.....

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DQ was in line to receive something like $10 million between salary and roster bonus. That's hardly a serviceable contract

Not to mention he said he would have taken a pay cut to stay.. I liked DQ he played hard and was a team leader who EVERYONE respected and you know what he earned his respect by his play.....

Like I said keep him instead of Robertson add Ward and Dansby and Whitner to this team and we are instantly a better team and defense... Being a fan and all I guess I have lost my ability to figure that out.................

Where exactly did we get better again remind me................

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Not to mention he said he would have taken a pay cut to stay.

Therein lays the problem. We tried to restructure, but he said it was too much off the table. Plus he also said he wanted to go somewhere where there was more stability. Like I've said before...If they don't want to be here...See Ya.

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Not to mention he said he would have taken a pay cut to stay.

Therein lays the problem. We tried to restructure, but he said it was too much off the table. Plus he also said he wanted to go somewhere where there was more stability. Like I've said before...If they don't want to be here...See Ya.

no, no, no every player wants to stay here, every FA wants to come here.... all we have to do is ask...... funny 2 months ago nobody was going to come here and nobody wanted to stay..... now .... oh boy..... never mind its an exercise in futility

As far as I can tell. DQ's base salary was slated to be $3.93 million, plus a $4 million roster bonus and a $100K workout bonus.

He had a $7 million signing bonus on his contract extension, along with unspecified guarantees. (at least that I can find without doing a CIA level search) He played 2 years of his 4 year deal, so half of his signing bonus is still to be allocated. So, for 2014 and 2015, his signing bonus would have accounted for $1.75 million per year.

Salary: $3.93 million
Roster Bonus: $4 million
Workout Bonus: $100K
Pro Rated Signing Bonus $1.75 million

So, his cap cost for this year would have been $9.78 million. (if my math is correct)

Instead, he cost us $3.5 million against the cap, which is the remaining unallocated portion of his signing bonus.

Not regarding DQ, but one thing I have wondered about is this ...... Brandon Weeeden, just to use an example, had a fully guaranteed salary this year, and a 50% guaranteed salary next year. Does his entire salary guarantee accelerate when he was cut, or just this year's salary, with the 50% of next year's salary going against next year's cap?

We got better because Dansby is a better inside linebacker in a 3-4 than DQ is. Period. I liked DQ. He played very well the two seasons we switched to a 4-3. But Dansby is certainly the better choice in a 3-4. Ward was excellent against the run. But we got better by bringing in a more well rounded safety in Hitner.

Saw some film on Dansby yesterday, aside from his on field prowess, he's an inspirational leader. Somewhat reminded me of Ray Lewis. Always trying to fire up his teammates. He even said at the press conference, his goal was to elevate the play of those around him. Also, he's been to a Super Bowl. He knows what it takes to win and can bring that experience to the locker room.

Whitner is also a vocal leader. A quarterback for our new D. He's coming off three trips to the NFC Championship and a Super Bowl birth. He's a fine addition to the locker room.

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Not regarding DQ, but one thing I have wondered about is this ...... Brandon Weeeden, just to use an example, had a fully guaranteed salary this year, and a 50% guaranteed salary next year. Does his entire salary guarantee accelerate when he was cut, or just this year's salary, with the 50% of next year's salary going against next year's cap?

pretty sure all to this years cap... they could have used the June 1st designation to spread that over next year... each team is allowed to do that with one player - like the Steelers did with Woodley

It gets accelerated, meaning we ate ALL of DQ's and Weeden's remaining $$. Their off next year's cap.

If a player is cut/traded DURING a season, like TRich, then I think it gets spread out or "punted" into next season's cap cost. That's why TRich is still on the books with 6.67 mil

in 2014

Not 100% sure, but I think that's how it works...

Sorry man, I've been a real stinker. To Me it's just when they leave....they leave. Crying over spilled milk aint gonna bring 'em back.

I agree completely.

I owe my allegiance to the browns and the players here, those that are gone, not coming, never been... they are nothing but names to me

There is a difference between DQ's contract and Weeden's contract though.

DQ's guaranteed money remaining was his signing bonus, which he was paid when he signed his contract. He had 2 years that hadn't yet been allocated against the cap, and that definitely accelerates when the player is cut.

Weeden had a signing bonus, but he also has a fully guaranteed salary this year, and a 50% guaranteed salary in 2015.

So this year the remainder of his signing bonus definitely accelerates, and his salary for this year counts against this year's cap. However, he had a 50% guaranteed salary for 2015. He also may have had offset language. I'm not sure. However, if he did, then the Browns responsibility to his guarantee would be lessened correspondingly. I would think that a player's future guarantee would be due against his team's cap in the year it is paid, whether or not he is still on that team or not. I can't find it for sure though.

Some of you guys kill me. As much as I liked Jackson, I never really saw the "leader" praise he got that last couple of years. Seems like it was more do to his tenure than his presence to inspire his defense. One press conference and I'm already sold on Dansby being a plus in this category. For me DQ was too laid back for a team leader. Especially at Linebacker. Dansby seems to have that "fire". I hope my instinct is correct.

I don't know if you have to be a fiery type guy to be a leader. I mean take one of our own for example, and it's been well noted of it too by Armonty Bryant and etc - Rubin is a very soft spoken guy, but players and people seem to love the man... would you not agree?

Everyone has their own style that people will eventually see and then understand and of course then, hopefully, feed off it and listen to/believe in.

I get what your saying, I do. But if you're going to be a soft spoken leader, imho you better be a thumper. Again i liked DQ, but think of all the posters that mention his stats are bloated due to 4-5 yards past the line. If that number was -2 to +2, I think we would all feel different about this change. Sadly this might be one of the position changes targeted by Pettine when in his first presser he mentioned getting the roster "tougher".

Spirit my old friend, how are you???

I think what's missing here is its not an either or, at least not for me..

Keep Jackson and keep Ward and add Dansby and Whitner were a better defense...

Here for me are the real choices. Robertson - DQ.........Ward Gibson or I could almost see letting Ward go but Jackson no way at least wait until your in a dollars crunch or have his replacement in hand as is who exactly is it that's going to play next to Dansby???

Its a team sport and the teams we play go after the weakest link who was that last year???? It sure as hell was NOT Jackson nor was it Ward but you could make a case that Ward wasn't so great in coverage granted.. You could even make a case that Jackson was getting a bit long in the tooth (30) but Dansby is 32................ Ward was a pro bowl player ranked well ahead of Whitner and both Ward and Jackson were home grown and you don't get better by creating holes then filling them.

In other words our off season moves to date are horizontal vs what you would hope to see which is vertical... These were questionable at best moves.....................We are as we were less about 50mill in contracts.....

I don't think they are horizontal per say...

DQ is a 4-3 guy.. We're in the 3-4.. I love him but he's not this great MLB presence. Dansby is..

And Whiter is better overall than TJ. Having both of them wouldn't of made any sense, you're not ganna see Whitner in the box as much as you did TJ, him and Gibson(unless he gets replaced) are going to covering a lot more...

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I think what's missing here is its not an either or, at least not for me..

Keep Jackson and keep Ward and add Dansby and Whitner were a better defense...

Playing Ward and Whitner side by side would not have made us a better defense. They are both SS ... Whitner is better at coverage than Ward but still not a FS. We would be exposed deep.

Ward and Whitner play the same position BTTB. I don't see either player in the free safety role. As for teaming DQ and Dansby, while possible it wouldn't be a very lasting solution. I'm really hoping we pick up a good young ILB or two in the upcoming draft. Dansby is fine for a couple years. As long as he stays healthy(which can be said about any player)he should really bring some pop on the inside.

I'm looking forward to seeing a real thumper in the middle this year. At least I hope that's how it goes. One can never tell with these matters.... I don't want to jinx anything by listing examples, but we haven't had the best of luck in FA over the years.

Guess we can only cross our fingers and hope Farmer and Pettine know their stuff.

We agree to a point, yet disagree.

Where we agree is that we haven't as of yet actually addressed any of the holes we had going into the FA market. What we have done is fill holes that were created.

But what was also done, was that we acquired players that fit the system by replacing one's that didn't. I see that as progress.

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But what was also done, was that we acquired players that fit the system by replacing one's that didn't. I see that as progress.

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But what was also done, was that we acquired players that fit the system by replacing one's that didn't. I see that as progress.

+1

That's exactly right.

No team goes into free agency without a single player at a particular position, and signs a guy because there is no one else. They sign players because they feel that they are upgrades over the players they have. If we had signed Schwartz, for example, at Guard, he would have "replaced" Lauvao. According to most people that would have been just fine. We would have "created a hole" by not resigning Lauvao ....... and plugged it with a free agent.

If there was a premium level starting QB on this market, a team like the Broncos wouldn't be on the hunt. Why would they? They have their guy. They went after Manning, but also cut Tebow. In essence, they "created a hole" ....... but really all they did was upgrade a position.

Maybe fans don't see DQ as being a hole, but I did. He was an OK player, but except for the 1st couple of games of the 2012 season, In those 2 games, he tallied 2 INT and 2 sacks. He was everywhere. Unfortunately, what were his season totals? 3.5 sacks and 2 INT. He made impact big plays in those 1st 2 games, then went back into a more passive role. Passive ILB are not made for th 3-4. The 3-4 needs aggressive ILB, who get off blocks and attack plays. Tha is who Dansby is. It is not, and never will be who DQ is. We took a major step up base on the defense we run.

It is a similar case for Whitner vs. Ward. It was said that Ward was negotiating with the Browns and wanted a salary in the neighborhood of $8 million/year as a starting point for conversation. Instead we signed Whitner for less than that, and improved in the pass coverage aspect. Ward gets to go to a team where he can play up in the box where he is most comfortable. This is a win/win for both players and teams. Ward isn't a bad player, but Whitner is a better fit here.

These 2 players should have a major impact on the defense this coming season. They are filling holes, but not just because we cut, or didn't re-sign a player ........ but because the holes always existed because the talents of the players did not fit the defense.

A team isn't always made strong by replacing only weak players. Sometimes you build by replacing "pretty good" players with "equal" type players who better fit the team. I think that's what we have done with these 2 moves. We can debate whether or not Dansby and Whitmer are better players ........ but what cannot be debated is that they appear to be better fits for the Browns. That makes them better players (for us) than the guys we let go.

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Ward and Whitner play the same position BTTB. I don't see either player in the free safety role. As for teaming DQ and Dansby, while possible it wouldn't be a very lasting solution. I'm really hoping we pick up a good young ILB or two in the upcoming draft. Dansby is fine for a couple years. As long as he stays healthy(which can be said about any player)he should really bring some pop on the inside.

I'm looking forward to seeing a real thumper in the middle this year. At least I hope that's how it goes. One can never tell with these matters.... I don't want to jinx anything by listing examples, but we haven't had the best of luck in FA over the years.

Guess we can only cross our fingers and hope Farmer and Pettine know their stuff.

Jackson was due like 10 million dollars. No way he was getting that, he simply isn't worth half that at this point. Sad but True.

j/c

People are getting to hung up on salary/bonus and whether a player was good enough.

DQ is a good LB for the right scheme just as Danbsy. DQ is a read react kind of guy...think Jauron. Danbsy is more a thumper and gap-read which fits Pettine's style. Regardless whether Browns had DQ or Danbsy they need to draft a replacement soon. To match level play and have a better scheme fit, Browns brought in Danbsy. Ideally I think it would have been nice if DQ restructured his contract and added Danbsy Browns would have best of both worlds. In the next year or two, I see Farmer addressing this issue.