I have no facts and I am not even saying I am right, but my intuition is usually pretty good. I have read a few comments from players questioning personnel decisions. I watched our team play sloppy ball in the opener. I watched them quit when things got tough. I have seen many, many questionable personnel decisions. I have heard corny phrases about "playing like a Brown," and then we cut guys who play like professionals and keep guys who have not, but were brought in by the current regime. I have seen good players like Winn, Kitchen, Skrine, etc not retained, while stiffs like Gilbert, Bowe, Orchard, and Meder are retained.

I see a first time GM who has no experience w/the draft. I see a first time head coach who hides behind his sunglasses. I see an owner who is a crook. I see a first time OC who doesn't understand run blocking like his predecessor. I see a first time QB coach who never had a meaningful job before.

These guys are in charge of grown men.

It's too early to say that team morale is low or that this regime has lost the team. Let me say that again......it is too early to declare that team morale is low and the regime has lost the players.

However, it is NOT too early to keep an eye on this possible situation. I have been around the game enough to know warning signs when they raise their ugly heads. There are some signs. I will be monitoring the situation.

I wondering what vets like Haden Thomas and Mack are saying or thinking behind closed doors.
Joe Thomas is this decades Archie Manning.great player who will never see a playoff game.
I think morale is low and if this team loses to the a rookie QB coming up the season is over.
yes 2 games in.
I see no sense of urgency or fire.
I haven't seen it since that playoff team of 2002.
Farmer has put together a roster that lacks cohesivness or a team first attitude.
Pettine ran a training camp like a kiddie safety school.
They lost to a Jets team who's trifecta on offense were NOT DRAFTED BY THE JETS.
other teams castoffs.

It's easy for us to say "they are pros and grown men, they should be together and play hard, etc, etc" ... but I'd probably agree. And IMO it's been like this for the majority of 17 years.

It's like they don't REALLY care. Sure, they'd like to do well, but it's not like they'd do anything to win. Collect a paycheck, stay healthy, get out.

I do think we have some really good guys on the team, but there is still a disconnect

Wait a minute,,, if they lack team morale, there is only one way to fix that. WIN

It's on them to turn it around. The coaching staff can only teach.. They have to learn and then use what they are taught.

They ARE grown men and should act like it. Grow up, do your jobs well.

I would think that how we respond next week will provide the answer and how much faith the team has in the coaching staff.

If we can rebound and execute plays well, then it was just a fluke. That being said, if there is another week like Sunday...what and how does the FO respond?

Joe Thomas being so frank around the media is a major cause for concern. Every quote he says reads like he's burnt out and know they have no chance this year.

I agree w/your points, but not sure if you understood mine?

It can be tough when you constantly hear stuff like "play like a Brown," while those same people give guys like Gordon, Gilbert, Manziel, and Bowe a pass.

It's tough when you see good players like Winn, Skrine, Sheard, Kitchen get let go for guys like Housler, Meder, Gilbert, Carder, etc.

It's tough when you cut a guy by saying "you have to produce now" and replace him w/a guy who is going to miss at least a few weeks.

It's tough when you run Camp Cupcake and then see so many guys go down w/injuries.

It's tough when you see your GM draft a dud like Gilbert and a guy like Manziel while passing on guys like Teddy and Beckham. Then, they turn around and draft Erving in round 1 this year???? Mayle????

That last paragraph can be contended easily. I get how it's up to the players to play and let the FO draft. I do.

I just think there is a whole lotta stuff adding up. Most of them bad. It's a weight on the player's shoulders. I am almost certain of that.

I pray I am wrong and if I am...........I will admit to it.

i do think players bought into that. i do think the players see what a joke it is.

Correct, it is up to the players to play with pride and effort. I disagree, that the coaching staff "can only teach." Most importantly, the coaching staff, specifically, the HC needs to lead and set the tone for the team.

In the offseason to present, Pettine ran a soft training camp, half the time the vets were busy standing on the sideline wearing bucket hats, as though this team has earned the right to slack off in TC. Pettine's body language was quite sad after the Jets game, head down and could barely make eye contact.

I like Pettine, he seems like a nice guy. However, I get the impression the guy is milquetoast, which is unfortunate. And, it seems to me the team is taking on that same identity.

Hopefully, I'm wrong.

Browns player quotes - Sept. 14

Link

Brian Hartline, Duke Johnson, Chris Kirksey chat with reporters


WR Brian Hartline
RB Duke Johnson Jr.
LB Christian Kirksey
DB Tramon Williams


WR Brian Hartline:
On the game film:
“A lot of missed opportunities. Definitely a tale of two halves. The first half was a different situation than the second half. We didn’t capitalize on our opportunities.”

On the Browns’ frustration level now:
“I wouldn’t say frustration. I would just say disappointment. Half the teams are going to feel that way in the beginning of the year. For everyone who picked us to go 16-0, it is not happening. We will move onto the next one.”

On switching from QB Josh McCown to QB Johnny Manziel:
“I don’t really think that was a thought process at some point. Obviously, it happened and we move forward.”

On why the two halves were so different:
“I think at some point when the scoring starts to change, their ability to continue the pressure because they could afford a big play on our side, sometimes it can change the game plan. If you score even and you can keep them a little more honest, sometimes that can make it easier on offense. We didn’t do that offensively. We made it harder for ourselves.”

On moving forward:
“It is not the first time we lose, and it might not be the last one either. There are a lot of vets in the locker room. It is (on) to the next one.”

On what the Browns did well yesterday:
“I think third downs we were converting pretty well. We were staying on the field for the most part. The ones that we didn’t convert, a lot of them were self-inflicted wounds from holding or turnovers or anything like that. I think that was the positive. I think we will continue to build on that, but overall, I think there were some times in the red zone where we should have got the ball in the end zone to keep the points going up. We will continue to move forward.”

RB Duke Johnson Jr.:
On his first NFL game:
“It was alright. It would have been better if we got the win”

On if he was nervous:
“First play, I always have butterflies. After you get that first hit out, you are fine.”

On grade himself for his first game:
“OK grade, not really sure. Not getting the win does not help and also I think I missed a couple of holes in the game. It was an OK grade.”

On how much he attributes the rushing game yesterday to his lack of reps:
“I think that comes with the first game of the season with any team. The plays that we did have, we had penalties. That is something we are talking about limiting. It comes with the first game of the season, being back out there in live action. I think we will be able to pick it up from here.”

On if there were holes to run through when he watched the film:
“There were.”

On why the Browns struggled to run the ball yesterday:
“I just think it was the first game jitters. Everyone is getting back out there, and we are all trying to get on one accord now. I think we can come back to the drawing board and fix some things up. It was all little things that we can fix, and we just didn’t do it in the game. Now, we are coming back to the drawing board and we are going to get it right.”

On it sounding like he is not too concerned about the running game:
“No, I think it is too early in the season to be concerned about the rushing game when there are a lot of things that we can do to fix it. The guys that we have up front will especially be a big help, too.”

LB Christian Kirksey:
On if there were a lot of missed tackles on the film:
“There were more than we want. We are a team that holds itself to a high standard and we hold each other accountable. Whenever we get more than three missed tackles and everything like that, we have to avoid that.”

On why the Browns didn’t play up to their standards:
“It is just one of those things where you work so hard throughout training camp and you work so hard throughout preseason and when you get to showcase your talents and put it all together and you fall short, it is kind of devastating. Like I said, it is Week 1. We didn’t put our best foot forward. We are not going to overthink it. We are going to put it in a box and learn from it.”

On what defensive coordinator Jim O’Neil said about the performance:
“That is not who we were or who we are. We know what we have to do. Like I said, a lot of people are going to count us out just after Week 1 or say it is the same old Browns. We are not going to overreact. All we are going to do is get better.”

On putting a game like that behind you:
“Just like any other play. When you have a bad play, you have to move onto the next and not let it accumulate into something bigger. Whenever you have a loss like that, you definitely don’t want to take it to Week 2. You have to mentally put it behind you, but at the same time learn from it.”

DB Tramon Williams:
On the defense’s play yesterday:
“It is tough. I thought we came out on fire. I thought we came out on fire. It seemed like when a couple circumstances went on throughout the game, the whole feel of the team went down. The momentum of the team went down. We have to do a better job of that. I saw that on the sideline. As far as the sideline and things of that nature, guys sitting on the sideline with their heads down, it is too early for that. You have to come out and play. You have to always believe. I think that is where we do need to get to.”

On how the Browns get there:
“Learning. Learning from, like I said, one week at a time. Learn from your mistakes from the past and bring it to the future. Obviously, now it is all about Tennessee. We have to get ready for those guys, but at the same time, we have to correct what we did this game before we move onto Tennessee.”

On if the defense feels they have something to prove to themselves:
“It wasn’t the way we wanted to start as a team, and at the end of the day as a unit, we want to play better, yes. At the same time, as a team, we didn’t play well. That we want to do, obviously. Like you said, defensively, we want to be the best defense in the league. We didn’t start that way. We just have to keep working. At the end of the day, we just have to keep working.”

Thank you Tramon.

Team of mental midgets.

Unbelievable.

The Browns have a very hard schedule after the Titans and Raiders. I thought they really had a good chance to go 3-0. I would assume the players may thought that as well. I don't see how their morale can be any good right now. As professionals, I know they have to erase that loss from their minds, but it has to be really tough to shake it off.

Bad morale: Pettine shows no real emotion. It's just the same tone. We lost and now it's on to next week. He should have been livid after that performance! I don't see what goes on behind closed doors, but watching his press conferences, it is hard to imagine anything is different behind closed doors. A team will be a direct reflection of it's leader.

And you are a FAN of that team?

More like young men who are trying to become men..

J/c

Of all those quotes, the only one I had concern with really was Tramon. The other players were just saying yeah, we had some jitters, made some mistakes and we will fix. Tramon gave the real insight so in that regard, Vers might be onto something.

Living Down Under, I get to see the game usually a day or 2 after its played (I'm either in bed or in work when it's on "live") so I guess I have the benefit of watching without the emotion, and the raw feeling of a live debacle when the result is known and I've read match day and review threads here. What I saw v the Jets was a great start. Those opening drives by both QBs I thought were outstanding and I really could not understand why the wheels fell off.

I don't think anybody saw it coming that the player group that were least likely to lay an egg would be the QBs. As for players heads down on the sideline, someone needed to recognise that and bring their heads back into what was at the time, a finely balanced competition. There's enough vets and coaches over there to get it done. Maybe understand why it couldn't be Whitner given he was playing like a goose and was probably in his own head.

I don't know if there's merit in the point that the op initially made but I know this. We better be prepared to play right off the bat v the Titans. I would expect to see significant improvement.

We have a team with a Rookie QB coming into town riding high off of a 4 TD game..

Bring them back down to earth and you'll start to see the morale rise up..

Let him have his way, and well.. I don't even know..

Winning cures all in sport.

It's a line in the sand make a statement sort of game now isn't it after that capitulation. They've put an enormous amount of pressure on themselves. If they'd kept after it against the Jets and gone down swinging and made it close bloodying a few noses then everyone in the world wouldn't be expecting a top 3 2016 draft pick.

winning cures all ills, but we've all been deathly sick for 15+ years

Interesting discussion Vers.

-In regards to roster: I understand that there will be young guys who come in to camp, and become a favorite of other players (i.e. Lenz). But there's still a business side to things, and I think its says more about the player than it does the team if he can't continue to be a professional (I'm speaking about Whitner). I'm probably unfairly picking on him, but after Whitner's performance this past week, he needs to shut his mouth about who should be on this roster. Yeah he had a few good hits, but he was missing tackles just as much as the others because he was half assing it (i.e the TD run where he tried to bump the guy instead of trying to tackle him).

-In regards to camp cupcake: I think this is on both Pettine AND the players. I didn't hear a single report of any of our Vets turning down an offered day off. On top of that, most of the injuries were muscle/tendon related. I'm not a sports medicine professional, but it seemed to me that many of those guys with hammy issues weren't exactly in a hurry to get back in to action.

With the exception of a few guys, there really didn't seem to be much sense of urgency did there? IMO this weeks loss is probably more due to an overconfidence and even a touch laziness.

It is something to watch for, I agree

I don't see anything to indicate a poor morale. It's way too early for that.

I think the poor morale is in the fanbase. That isn't to point fingers at anybody. I am not saying that is right or wrong. I understand how some people might have poor morale.

The upcoming TEN game is the most winnable on the schedule and I think they will respond and win it. Vegas agrees btw and has us favs and I am thinking about putting some money on us, although that would lead to double frustration if they lose it. This roster has enough vets to win those kind of games, they signed multiple older, experienced guys and I expect them to respond. T.Williams, Starks, Whitner, Dansby, Hartline etc

But if they lose next sunday too? Oh boy, then we're in for a first year Mangini-season re-run

I just saw a team lose their starting QB. Very few team go unaffected by that. I saw a BIG PHYSICAL WR in Brandon Marshall demoralize our secondary including Joe Haden. That interception that got stripped by Marshall just destroyed our entire team and made them feel pathetic.

Johnny does not have what it takes YET to motivate these guy beyond these kind of circumstances after barely having practice for 2 weeks.

It's not the end of the world fellas. Josh will be back soon and hopefully playing a little bit safer with his body because at 38 he just has to do that. He was playing great while he was in there =)

There is plenty to hope for so don't give up the season already guys!

I understood exactly what you meant, I just feel that if you want to fix team morale, it starts with the Vets setting the rules and making damn sure the younger guys stick to them.

There is only so much an Owner, GM, President, HC or assistants can do. Teams that turn it around are teams that have vets that take control.

I'm looking directly at guys like Thomas, Mack, Haden, Whitner, Dansby etc.

Having said that, talent is lacking on this team and in my opinion, that lands on Farmer and his folks. With that in mind, even top Vets like those mentioned above can only do so much. Somewhere along the line, we need an infusion of Talent.

Agreed. At some point, it's not the coach or the GM or any of it.

It's up to the guys on the team. We've been through many coaches. Many GMs. None have caught on.

At some point, it's the guys who are accountable. And they need to want to win. Whether Josh Lentz gets cut, Terrance Williams gets traded, the Kitchen gets cut, and so on.........

They should be embarrassed to collect a pay check, wear their jersey, drive their expensive automobiles, and kick back in their expensive homes/condos after that game against the Jets. They are professionals, and no matter who is coaching them, they have a duty to do.


Now, I'm of the opinion that we'll definitely look much better next week. We'll win against the Titans, win against the Raiders, and we'll be 2-1 by week 4. But what we saw against the Jets was unacceptable, and if that's what we're going to see all season, everyone must go.

I think losing McCown hurt not so much for his play on the field as it hurt losing his presence on the sideline. He's really our only upbeat motivator type person on O.

I think Haden having an off day hurt the whole D. He's usually that upbeat, energy guy on D, but didn't seem to be himself. Hopefully Joe can get right and Shelton can step up, too. Going up against Mangold is a pretty rough first assignment.

The whole team seemed to be playing tight. We need to figure out how to play aggressive, but still loose. We seemed like a bunch of guys out there playing on their own instead of a team/family. I noticed Dansby somewhat uncharacteristically chewing Kirksey out instead of trying to pick him up.

I don't think we have X's and O's issues or talent issues. We have attitude issues. There's too much negativity around the team, and I'm not sure how you fix that. The media/public perception will probably only get worse after that egg we laid.

I guess if I were Pettine I'd put the team in lockdown mode. No social media, ESPN, etc. I'd probably try to mix up the locker room, too. Try to spread out the positive guys to keep the team up. The problem with all the roster turnover we've had is we don't really have a tight team. We might have to go the us against the world route to try to foster the esprit de corps we need.

Got right on it, eh?

Won't argue a single point, but I will contend they are grown men and professionals, coaches and players. Flags and crappy play are unacceptable. The bike riders need to play well. Pett said they have to coach better and takes an immediate share of responsibility. Morale is important, but has its own smaller place after a single game.
Coaching is instructing and correcting. The flags and crappy play are mental as are missed tackles. I don't care about feelings and morale much; do your jobs. And I can't realistically write all that was awful Sunday and set it aside for morale.

This "lost the team" stuff is a discussion for later, say post-bye maybe if it is real at all. Now is not the time for that.

Except that it looked like nobody cared. And that's what worries me. Nobody caring on the first game of the season.

We've lost 11 in a row. Joe Thomas must have lost at least 8 of those. Alex Mack, like 6. Joe Haden, may be 4 or 5? Gipson lost his third in a row. Probably Mitchell Schwartz too.

Motivation should not have been an issue.



Hopefully it's just an oddball week and they step up against the Titans.

they're suppose to be professionals, but let's be real:

11 straight loses in season openers. thats a morale hit straight up.

getting blown out, who isn't gonna have their head hanging down on the sidelines?

nobody on the defensive side of the ball performed. very few on offense performed. it was just a bad game, but a bad game on the road.

we are here in the land next sunday. home opener. i expect them to light a fire under their asses.

This is a really good point. Maybe he shouldn't be running the ball as much as he has, but I really think this was why he went for the TD. He's going to lead by example. Did any of you guys see the angle from the endzone? He looked like a daggone madman and he wanted that TD bad. He's been criticized for it, but its also one of those plays that had he scored, it would have been a huge momentum boost.

Haden always seems to have at least one game every season where he gets his lunch money taken doesn't he?

It seems to me that our first drive with McCown looked pretty good. Not perfect by a long shot, but yet a sustained, clock eating, moving the football kind of drive. What I would consider a best case scenario kind of thing. When McCown took that first hit, I said to myself that he has to be smarter than that. So much for that idea. I would say I'm not so sure if he can come back and realize he's an NFL pocket QB and not the second coming of Fran Tarkenton, we may have a chance to show a little something.



Now I do believe you may have exaggerated the crook point and the sunglasses issue, otherwise, I agree with you. It seems posters wish to blame the players, and to an extent they have a point. But the coaching staff and FO has the responsibility to gather quality talent and have this team ready to play. They certainly were not.

Some of us have pointed out that our staff may lack the experience to effective at teaching and leading our team. Some dismiss anything people say that questions the powers that be. You'll have that on a message board. People have different opinions. I believe it could be a huge deciding factor in many games this season when it comes to identifying needed adjustments.

The huge number of penalties rest on the heads of the coaching. Total lack of discipline. This coaching staff understood what was needed from day one. The ability to run the ball and stop the run. They had an entire off season to address it and change it. Yet we saw the same old thing. Do people really believe we can suddenly change it now after it being the focus of an entire off season?

It is too early to say for sure as you stated. But early on, it seems many of the things that people called some posters "negative posters" about, are real concerns, not something people were just making up to be negative. It's not a prerequisite to be blind in order to be a Browns fan.

I can understand why the players were deflated (even though it's a bad sign that they were).

They went from their starting QB scoring an opening drive TD to losing him for the game on a turnover.

They had a red zone pick turned into red zone TD following Gipson's fumble.

They were told they were going to run the ball and stop the run and did neither.

Their offense either turned the ball over or went 3 and out on most of their drives.

The coaching staff was completely outcoached coming out of halftime.

It was a tough game and it was clear that we weren't prepared at all for it. The challenge will be getting these guys motivated for the next game... which is a home opener against the 2nd easiest opponent left on our schedule. They should come out strong and confident.

If they come out flat and blow it vs. Tennessee? This season could turn into an unmitigated disaster.

I'm blaming anybody and everybody.... in some games its a little easier to say one group or one set of guys did well and the others did not (including the staff)... in this game, nothing looked good.

+1

...points to deeper problems that will be more exploitable later in the year (or for sure in his career)some would say. Any technique flaws overcome with athletics and buried under the rest of teams more glaring problems.

A much more glaring problem is zero pass rush allowing opposing QB's to stand in the pocket all day and then blame the CB's.

Pretty sure we should change the slogan from "Play like a Brown" to "You cant make this sh*t up"

Sad actually...I know this board is collectively all really true diehards...and we fight because we are all unhappy with having an inferior product yearly...it has go change right? 16 years later...and it hasn't...Truly unbelievable

Already, Mike Pettine must fight losing attitude infecting Browns

Losing attitudes can seep into a team without a team even knowing it.

Bred by losing, buoyed by culture and fed by negativity, a losing attitude can overwhelm much that teams try to accomplish.

No player or coach wants it, seeks it or accepts it.

But the Cleveland Browns find themselves fighting that attitude -- after the first week of the season.

An embarrassing season-opening loss to the Jets has fans angry and players around the league asking: What the heck is going on in Cleveland?

In almost every other city, it would be too soon to talk of this issue. It’s not in Cleveland. Not when the team has been over .500 once since 2003. Not when the team has lost an NFL record 11 season-opening games in a row. Not when the Browns are outmanned, outfought and outplayed by a team that finished three games worse than the Browns did a year ago. And especially not when one of the team’s new veterans, a respected player who came from a winning culture, said he noticed during the game players starting to hang their heads when things went awry.

"It seemed like when a couple circumstances went on throughout the game, the whole, I guess, feel of the team went down," cornerback Tramon Williams said. "The momentum of the team went down. We got to do a better job (with) that. I saw that on the sideline ... Guys sitting down on the sidelines with their heads down. It’s too early for that. We got to come out and play. We got to always believe."

This might be the toughest nut for Mike Pettine to crack. It’s certainly one that other coaches have found next to impossible to fix. How does a team gain belief without results? The Browns seemed to be gaining belief last season, but poor play and their own actions undermined a 7-4 start.

Five losses ended the season, and the streak hit six on Sunday.

One game into the season -- one game! -- Pettine has already discussed attitude in a meeting with his veterans.

"It is difficult when that is the past history," Pettine said. "It is easy to fall into, 'Here we go again.'"

Pettine talked about being even-keel. Williams, who had one losing season in seven in Green Bay, talked about belief. He, like many other players and coaches before him, said part of the reason he’s in Cleveland is to upend the culture.

"Some things need to change and it has to start with belief," he said. "You have to believe whether you’re down or up."

Williams faces what many other coaches and players before him have faced: The chicken or the egg question of whether belief breeds winning or winning breeds belief.

The Browns have obvious deficiencies. In all those years in Green Bay, Williams had Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers at quarterback. The Browns have Josh McCown and Johnny Manziel. The Browns also have a receiver guaranteed $9 million who isn’t contributing. The running backs have to prove themselves. A boastful defense gave up 154 yards rushing, two touchdowns passing and was pushed around. There is a glaring need for playmakers.

Add in the negativity that goes with years of losing and struggle, which is always brought up when things go wrong, and the climb becomes that much tougher.

The Browns have what they have. They might truly be in the tired old situation where they are the only ones who believe they can win.

But one thing is certain: If they give in to their deficiencies and lose faith when things go wrong, there will be a lot more results like Sunday’s.

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns...nfecting-browns

j/c......but, that was a good article, play.

--There were a lot of thoughtful posts. I like that even those of you who disagreed w/me did so respectfully. I appreciate that.

--I may not have been as clear as I had hoped to be. I am NOT just referring to our performance vs the Jets. I am certainly including the game, but I am also looking at many of our moves, the propaganda that is being put out, comments by players that you hardly ever see, the history of losing, etc, etc.

--The Browns need something positive to occur. I can only think of one thing. That is if Johnny comes out next week and lights it up. I don't care about his numbers too much, but if he can put points on the board, show toughness, be a leader, and then lead us on a late game-winning drive.............things can turn around. Again, I have no real proof of my concerns, but I have been pretty good in the past at spotting such issues. This team needs an infusion of positive news.

I think you are wrong...its one game. I saw some pretty bad preparation quite frankly and was disappointed there. I don't think we are Losing the team after GAME 1 or before as you suggest.

I mean - we have LOST every opener from 99-2003, 2005 to present. smh

All we have to do is win and its a cure all from anyone who has a doubt lingering in the back of their minds (talking players). There is very few players - and quite frankly those who are - I DON'T WANT THEM. That are grumbling this early in the season. They are looking to win.

I have no proof of this but I too have a pretty good read of players...not saying we are going to win every game. I'm saying that its nowhere close to mutiny or Pettine losing the team.

jmho

Proof or not the body language Sunday in the second half was grim. Everyone knows winning a few games will help but to cure all we need a huge infusion of positive news, something like the playoffs are on the horizon or it looks like we finally have our QB

I agree with Vers.

I agree also, but somewhere these players who are supposed o be professionals, need to step up. The coaches ain't dropping passes and missing tackles. It is time for THEM, t step up. Excuses are for......., well you know.

The game plan was weak IMO, but the players need to grow some, and dig down and play like a pro. A whining player after a game where they showed no enthusiasm and poor effort, is a cop out IMO.

The players need to play like a Brown, PERIOD!

They did that last week.

we played like something brown, alright.

LOL. Now that was funny.

With as much as Ol' Jimmy likes "improving" the look of the uniforms....and as "good" as they look currently...that right there might as well be our helmet logo.

We should have invested in 60 or so of these instead of wasting money on new uniform designs.

Note to Browns: Get angry, like the rest of us
Sep 18, 2015 -- 6:00am

The mood: The fans are angry. Season ticket-holders I’ve spoken to are angry. (Their sales reps with the Browns can attest to that.) At least one former Browns advertiser I’ve spoken to is angry. The media are angry. I’ve heard the owner is angry.

But are the Browns angry about that 31-10 losing effort against the New York Jets in Game 1?

I went in search of that emotion this week and came up empty.

The closest I heard came from safety Tashaun Gipson.

“We are a little bit (ticked) off because we know we’re better than that,” Gipson said of the defense.

Only a little bit?

I was particularly interested in the defense because that is the side of the ball that was supposed to lead the Browns this season.

The offense is challenged, we all know, because of the decision by GM Ray Farmer and coach Mike Pettine to build the team with defense first. As always, actions speak louder than words.

According to Spotrac, which tracks salary cap information of every team, the Browns rank second in the NFL in spending on defense. The Browns are devoting $62.3 million in 2015 salary cap money to defense. Only the Houston Texans at $63.7 million are spending more, according to the Website’s figures.

The Browns are second in spending on the defensive secondary (to the New York Jets), 19th in spending on the defensive line, and sixth in spending on linebackers.

The Browns are 21st in spending on offense. Those figures break down this way: 27th in spending on quarterbacks, 30th on running backs, 11th on wide receivers, 17th on tight ends, and fifth on the offensive line.

The responses: Here is a sampling of reaction to my query about the mood of the defense this week:

Defensive end Desmond Bryant: “I think it was more disappointment in ourselves. We know we can play better than that.”

Cornerback Tramon Williams: “Angry? I don’t think so. We understand in the NFL it happens like this at times. It can be frustrating, but you have to learn from it and let it stay in the past and not let it carry into the next game. You have to hit the reset button. I know it’s cliché, but in this game, all the ups and downs, your mindset has to be like that.”

Defensive coordinator Jim O’Neil: “Ready to bounce back. I think that they were a little embarrassed by what happened on Sunday. I was embarrassed, but it’s a resilient group. They have a lot of pride. They compete. Had a great practice yesterday so I love where we’re at. I love how they’ve come back. I’d be shocked if we didn’t play well on Sunday.”

On Tuesday, safety Donte Whitner apologized for the effort at the close of an interview with Marc “Munch” Bishop on ESPN 850 WKNR.

Unprompted, Whitner said, “To all browns fans, I apologize for this game on Sunday. It was very uncharacteristic of our team and what we embody and what we’re going to do this year. We’re going to put a better product on the field Sunday.”

“Being from here,” Pettine said of Whitner, “he knows what it means to our fan base.”

Almost toxic: Probably the most disturbing aftermath of the loss was the observation on Monday by Williams, the former Green Bay Packer, of heads hanging on the sideline in the third quarter as the Jets were taking control of the game.

I checked in with Williams on Thursday for a clarification.

“No energy on the sideline,” he said. “It was everybody, really. It’s almost toxic when you see that on the sideline. It’s like cancer. It can spread.”

Did it become a topic of conversation during the week?

“We mentioned it,” Williams said. “I think guys understand we have to be better than that. The good thing is, it was just Week 1.”

Which, to me, means that Game 2 – to borrow from Jimmy Fallon’s Donald Trump – is huuuuuuuuge.

The defense shoulders the responsibility for keeping this season from turning into a chemical spill. The offense is challenged by Farmer’s archaic, misguided philosophy of building a team without devoting priority to quarterback and receiver.

The defense is highly paid and also has the greatest orators on the team. Even after the Jets – in Gipson’s own words – “imposed their will on our seconday,” Gipson still said on Thursday, “We still feel like we’re the best secondary in the National Football League.

“We’re definitely not in a panic mode because we know who we have back there.”

All good. I just wish somebody showed some anger. Some emotion. Some passion. Like the rest of us.

“To me, when you lose you should be upset,” Pettine said. “That’s to me an indication that it’s important to you, you’re passionate about it, something you put a lot of time in and came up short.

“You get guys that are motivated by what winning brings to you, the feeling that you get when you’re in. You get guys that are also motivated by the fear of losing. It’s a coaching cliché, but when you lose you want guys to remember the feeling.

“To me, if losing doesn’t bother guys, they have the wrong make-up to be in your locker room.”

http://espncleveland.com/common/more.php?m=49&action=blog&r=17&post_id=49491

The only part of this I don't think I quite agree on is that it was a weak game plan. I'm not saying it was masterful by any means, but had the players execute properly, not missing tackles, holding the outside contain, etc... I think the game plan would have been sufficient.

The more I think about it, I think the lack of veteran presence in the preseason, between those held out for minor injuries or given days off, is why we saw such a lackluster and at times a lack of cohesive effort.

LOL, maybe we could have the elf dropping a deuce!

That is very unsettling... Disappointed? Embarrassed? We understand?

They lost morale because they knew Johnny was not going to score anymore points and they knew they couldn't stop brandon marshall.

get over it guys. Let just hope Mariotta(that guy Farmer would have drafted last year if he came out) doesn't kill us too bad.

Last year there was a point after the Texans MAN HANDLED us and then the Colts edged us that we lost morale ... but that was weeks 12/13 or something like that

Head up bundt is hardly a morale issue. It IS an "I can't be bothered enough" issue, an "I love flagged football penalties by the dozen" issue, and so on. I guess as a fan Ia m to rivet on snappy explanations after losses and continue to care more about the game than the team does.

Fans n Owner I can see "ANGER" being involved.

But I don't get this bit about players being Angry as the litmus test to I don't know what...to being a fan???

As long as they aren't Satisfied with their performance and are looking to improve and get it up to where they should be and if anything maybe over achieve. I have yet to find
"ANGER" as the motivating factor??? Right then an there walking off the field...I can see/expect some anger from players in the result. But afterwards its about working hard to be better.

I know Haden stated that Pettine was going to really be pushing them in practice and working them extra hard cause of the way they played...maybe he did.

But in pressers he would not reveal any anger. Doesn't mean they all enjoyed losing.

Again I don't get the anger bit?

Interestingly enough, my ticket rep for my season tickets called today to check in. Looks like they are in full damage control mode already.

J/C ......

I think that it's OK to be angry behind closed doors, but I don't think that it does a lot to be angry publicly. When a player is angry, the next question is, "who/what are you most angry with?", and that lease to a whole line of questions a team does not need.

Fans overreact so badly. I remember the 2007 season, where we lost in week 1. The OL "sucked" according to many ..... the team stunk .... the season was over ......

We put up 50+ points and beat Cincy the very next week .... barely ..... and when I got home and read the board, people were talking about how badly DA played, and how much he stunk.

Fans always overreact. Players don't always overreact. Players are taught to be careful when speaking to the media, and I am sure that the coaches told them to be careful not to blast a teammate. The players don't always just blow their stacks. I am also sure that none of the players wanted to have anything they said come off as blaming Manziel, since he went in under less than ideal circumstances. Let's face it .... beyond the penalties, the 3 turnovers by Manziel were probably the biggest contributing factor in this loss. (and then the collapse of the secondary, and the play of the OL ...) Does it do a whole lot of good to blast Manziel, especially after he had so little time to prepare in the preseason?

These guys have fire, but there is a difference between fire directed at the other team, and raining down friendly fire on your own teammates.

I understand what Pettine is getting at...he is attempting to tap into the emotions he feels might be lacking in some of our players.

It sounds as if Pettine expected more emotion from his team and is attempting to pass the message along to the team that he is disappointed.

Fear and anger can be used as positive motivators if a player knows how to use emotion to help motivate himself.

I believe Pettine is attempting to teach the team what/how he expects them to react to a loss, like last weeks butt kicking.

No one should like losing!

Maybe anger is the wrong word.. maybe just "emotion" is the better word. Granted, I can only see what the TV shows me, but I saw very little. I saw very little during the game on the field as the Jets were starting to pull away, I didn't see any on the bench trying to motivate or galvinize a group of guys to keep fighting while we still had a chance...

Did it happen? I don't know, but if it did, I didn't see it.

I don't think it's as simple as that. Remember the movie with Keanu Reeves called the replacments. He had a line about what he was afraid of and his answer was Quicksand. The more you struggle to get out, the worse things get.

If there was a morale issue, I'd say it's the feeling that everything was just going south.

They are professionals, they gotta lift themselves up by the boot straps and get the job done. There is no time for that Hang Dog feeling. Move on, this is a new week.

The Morale issue seems to be with the fans...don't know about the silent majority but the fans voicing their opinion are acting like we just went 2-14 and the season is done???

Considering we have lost our opener 16 out o 17 years...why would this make us the worse team we have seen here since 1999?

My goodness. I've never seen this. The usual negative posters are like trying to right the course...lol

Perhaps you are right, but I watched the game and I didn't see a whole lot of "fight back" in that team once things started going south..


Might not be the worst team since 1999.... but it sure looks like a lot of those teams we've watched along the way... and lack of improvement doesn't improve morale.

I won't speak for anyone else...I saw a team with low morale starting in the 3rd qtr Sunday. I know this isn't the worse team we've had since '99 but they gave up on both sides of the ball and laid down for the Jet's.

The Brown's are almost always in the game to the end. Not last Sunday, they gave up.

They need a booster shot badly and smacking every other team in the mouth is going to be the only fix here.

I'm sure that the Browns players know what time it is with this team thus they ain't mad.. I ain't mad cause I honestly expect them to lose.

I can hate this season love the draft and love all the seasons to follow. Upset disappointed that it is what it is, but better days are coming just to bad there so far away...

Sad

I feel your pain but tomorrow we'll be very telling, I'll wait till 4pm before I go for the shower curtain rod....

We're tied for second in the division.

A few things:

--I have clearly stated that I am NOT using just the one game for my concern.

--I clearly stated that I was not positive that the team's morale was low, but I was concerned and would keep an eye on it, as opposed to being a person who just turns a blind eye to the situation because I wanna be "positive."

--I never once mentioned that team was going to start a mutiny.

--I gave examples from not only the game, but practices, roster moves, slogans, draft choices, FA moves, comments from players throughout the preseason, the soft TC, the interference from a GM who is suspended for interfering, the team's body language on the sideline, etc, etc.

--I want to add this, the comments coming from Berea are disturbing. What Williams said about the sideline demeanor is telling. He certainly never saw that type of "quit" in Green Bay. This team has a morale issue. It doesn't have mental toughness. They quit too easy. They get down too easy. They don't have a strong resolve. The FO making one boneheaded move after another and having a HC who runs a soft camp and then sits there hiding behind his sunglasses and showing no emotion on the sideline are only adding to the problem.

Vers you started a thread last week about are u excited? I never got the sense this team was excited to be playing. I was very concerned with 20 guys riding the bike heading into the last couple of preseason games and almost all were guys that made the roster.

The defense felt disengaged throughout the preseason and it carried into week 1. This team loved solomon not because he was great but because he brought it on every play. I didnt see a lot of that from the rest of the defense.

I saw McCown and Manziel put it all out there on offense but there just wasnt a lot of enthusiasm from that side of the ball either. Its hard to describe it other than there just wasnt any energy displayed.

Hawkins not even looking back when no one was covering him, gets his head around its 6 pts. Dray and Barnidge dropping balls. Gabriel dropping the one at the end. Crow missed a couple really good holes and didnt look mentally ready. I thought the interior of the line struggled mightily in this one.

I dont know if it was due to any personnel decisions but the game worries me as I do like Pet. These are the kind of games that get coaches fired.

I have no proof of this but I too

Clearly I read what you wrote and didn't put any blame on you.

Not playing for the coaches...Mutiny, call it what you may, its all about belief of the players.

I don't disagree one bit about our game vs. the Jets there was a let down. They believed in McCown and he was torn from them after the first drive. Not that they don't believe in Manziel I think it was more - the fact that they had to go on with their BACK-UP QB and then when there were turnovers...its sapped their heart.

Not condoning what happened. Just observing.

Comments thousands of them throughout off season and camp. If you wish to Cherry Pick them and put them all together go right ahead. That to me was not proof. Just an excellent presentation in a debate. After all that you presented...you yourself reminded us that you have no proof. Yet if I don't accept that I am not doing so out of disrespect. I'm doing it simply cause I don't accept it.

as alway jmho. I didn't Kool Aid my response. I put it on the Coaching staff cause its their responsibility to have these guy hopped up and raring to go...even with their backs to the wall.

I think they were ill prepared to lose their starting QB also in the first drive. They got to be better.

anybody wanna guess what the team morale for KC is after thursday night's game?

The defense let them march down the field on them right out of the gate and a blown play and a shanked field goal was the result of that one. To say it was because they lost their QB is just silly. The defense played their ass off down the stretch when Hoyer, Manziel and Shaw was playing like total garbage.

Losing a 36 year old journeyman backup isnt gonna devastate a team.

Unfortunately the lack of competitiveness from the team against the Jets reminded me of Chud's last few games.

My cousin and I were texting about it this week and he said it's rumored that Pett is a hardass behind closed doors and shows a ton of emotion when not in front of the camera. Anyone else heard this or read anything like that?

There are a lot of people who think the team quit because of Manziel. I didn't really feel that watching the game. I think Camp Cupcake, Pettine's lack of emotion, and lack of fiery, competitive players turns this team into mental midgets at the first sign of adversity. At the professional level of competition I find that to be pathetic.

Hell, we have weekend warrior type pick up basketball and football games here every Saturday. We show more competitive fire than the Browns. Hell, really good friends will almost come to blows and go several days without talking to each other after some of these games. LOL.

Moral wise they aren't going into the game with the attitude...McCown sucks if we lose him no big deal he's only a 36 year old Journey man.

McCown has been big for this teams off season. He's gotten players into the system. He has shown that he knows the system and can run it efficiently. What you said was so so not football. Usually you are pretty good. But sorry that what you said was pretty ignorant of how a team believes in an obvious leader. No he was no Payton Manning. But to those players he was THEIR PAYTON MANNING...if you don't get that then I apologize.

I will try AGAIN.

I am NOT talking about just one game.

When I rewatched the game, the defeatist attitude really came out and yea I felt worried about Pet after watching this and I am a big Pet fan but he needs to pull this team together in a hurry or its #1 pick type bad.

If they are that mentally weak then I fully recommend a complete blowup of this roster and staff.

We should know tomorrow about 3PM

Well then you are way off the mark and just wanting to believe these guys are way inferior. Was that concluded after their 7-9 season after exceeding the last 6 seasons including one with the great Banner?

Right the moral is so low??? Come on Vers do yo really believe what you write?

So if we won against the Jets...our 2nd opener win since 99 you still think the Moral is low? So it is about one game.

Sorry - this might end up to be a not so good season I cannot predict. Worst thing to happen for the Browns is another Regime Change. That much I do know!

Agreed. It was just one game. But, if we see much more of that, people need to go. And lots of them.

I've read that in the military, when a unit just can't pull together, they basically blow the thing up and move all the members to other units.

Now given, that was just one game, but we cannot have guys hanging their heads and accept losing. Especially in the third quarter.

Mourg I don't think its Pet I think its what he has to work with.

I understand that many or even most don't agree with that statement but this team is dysfunctional on so many levels and Pet has and is playing along with that dysfunction unfortunately.

That's my opinion and my assessment of who we are as a team.

I realize that my response is short and it doesn't lay out why I feel that way and its a whole lot of little things that lead me to that conclusion unfortunately that's what I think and I have no desire to write a book about it so this is short on reason.

MY one hope is that this is the plan to tank this season secure the 1st pick and get this thing turned around. ???????????????????????????????????????

I will say this too, if this is indeed the best they can do, and their not tanking the season then we need to change course quickly.

Or.... you could say after their sixth loss in a row.....

Remember, while you call it one game, this team lost five games in a row to end last season. At some point, even you have to admit that's a cumulative effect.

j/c

I am struggling to believe on a 'football talk' thread - there is so much pure speculation about *feelings* after one game of the season. I understand as fans we have seasons of misery piling up that influence our attitude and outlook on the team. . . . you don't have to read the board for long to see how ingrained the expectation of the worst possible scenario has become in some. . . . but come on, people are trying to interpret players feelings - which can only be speculation on anyone's part - and then extrapolate that and apply it to the rest of the season. It's even more absurd than the posters who have already determined the grades on our latest draft class and decided how each Rookie is going to pan out for their career with the Browns.

I was as disappointed as anyone with the performance vs the Jets. But come on - let's have a larger sample size before we say the team has quit - before we try to play amateur psychologist and get touchy feely about the players emotional state. . .

So you too are calling this one game instead of our sixth loss in a row?

It's one game. Period.

The team has how many new players since the end of last season? How many new coaching staff.

How many games have we played this season?

I know it seems popular and easy to throw around phrases like mental midgets and such ... and I saw how a pick up game has more passion in it than the Browns apparently showed .... But let me ask you .... if you were on the team. If it was your livelihood and your profession .... would you quit? Would you be mooching around and hoping the F.O gets axed and there was a new regime next year.

It's just too easy and simplistic to throw that stuff around - I don't buy it. I don't believe ANY professional athlete on the face of the planet playing any sport, for any team regardless of how good, bad or awful that team is - plays one game of a new season, says - damn, if we look back to last year we've now lost 'X' games in a row - that's it I am giving up. My next game I'll only give 75%....

Doesn't happen.

Team morale is probably a whole lot higher than fan morale.

If the team stinks this year, they should be in line for a QB. There will probably be 3 or 4 coming out. The decision will be which one.

Same as it has been since 99.

I saw that too. Yet I didn't say any of those things.



What I can say is what I saw last week. I saw a team that appeared to lack the intensity you would like to see. They didn't seem motivated or disciplined. Now what we'll see from here on out is anybody's guess at this point. However, it did seem that way last week and I do believe it's worth watching out for.



Those are things I never said either.



What I can tell you is this team has in fact lost six games in a row now. That's how the records are kept. I simply brought that up because another poster tried using the line, "But we were 7-9 last year". He brought up last year, I didn't.

So yes, if a poster, in this case eotab, wants to bring last year into the equation, then that opens the door to state that this is our 6th loss in a row, don't you think?

I just hope he doesn't try to jump into the dogpound. How humiliating would that be? I still remember when OchoStinko tried it.

Statistically we have lost 6 in a row. Yep.

What is the point of this observation in regards to the emotional state of the players? I need clarification from you if you want to have a meaningful conversation. It doesn't seem like you have said anything at all other than state a statistical fact that may or may not have any effect on the feelings of the players .... you know I don't think it does.

My initial post was a general observation on all the comments on the board. You asked if I was denying that they had lost 6 games in a row with the inference being you disagreed with everything I wrote. I answered again in general to the comments on the board. . . . You seem to have muddied my response with Eo ... so in order to prevent that, answer the Q in the paragraph above and then we can talk.

Btw, we had super competitive basketball runs this morning. Lots of fire and competitive spirit. I almost threw up...which was actually a combination of the heat, going all out, and being out of shape. But I was willing to throw up for my team.

GM would be proud...(age)





Credit the blue pill.. (age)





I told her.. it was ..(age)






You"ll Learn (age )

Gee, where is steve? I thought he hated when posters made fun of other posters in this manner?

Oh..........and no tab, I don't believe any of it. I am just making it all up because I hate Farmer. My points have no validity at all.

Now, will you go away?

Who are you to tell Pit what to do on this thread? I started the thread and you certainly have changed the meaning of many of my points.

I NEVER said it was about one game. I have included numerous reasons at least 2 to 4 separate times.

You don't have an argument, so you start your usual crap of making it about the poster[s] rather than the topic. I despise posters like you.

Talk about the subject at hand instead of belittling other posters as your defense.

we're about to see where the team moral is today.

home opener, team coming off embarrassing loss. hopefully we show some fight.

I know that everyone always wants an answer to a question immediately, but as I mentioned in my initial post..........I think it is too early to make any conclusions.

I think this is something to keep an eye on over the course of the season.

I stated nobody is happy with a loss. It is deflating. Morale? That is a damning thing. Morale indicates to me that Pettine and staff are LOSING THE TEAM. And I don't think I ever EVER remember in all the HORRIBLE SEASONS here since 99 that we have ever lost the team by GAME ONE or as Vers stated PRIOR to game one. That is simply and Indictment on this Regime. Dress it up anyway you want to - simply the Combo of Haslam, Famer and Pettine is the absolute WORST we have had here.

And that would include the PERSONNEL here. Including the former Pro Bowlers we have here.

I'm calling this what this is. Silly. Based on selected quotes from THOUSANDS.

Can I believe our FAN base is down in Morale...100% and all those things you state.

As for football players - assessing the past season. With 5losses in a row. That is what the off season is for. They worked hard in the off season. Some coming back from injury. Whittner tells it like it is...for him.

He is the typical surly knarly defensive pro. Its not Morale for him...its about Winning.

So Pit..and whoever. Just cause FANS are ready to give up...how the heck do you guys think well it must be with the PLAYERS...Before friggen Game ONE!

I will call this thread what it is...Silly

I know this will not sit well with Vers...but sorry I will not hold your hand in this. Doesn't mean I don't like him doesn't mean I will insult him. Just cause I strongly disagree doesn't mean I am insulting.

I don't expect all of us to be on the same page.

But the premise that in season two - prior to the start of season two. The Regime of Haslam, Farmer and Pettine are losing the players...from the get go. I can see something like this popping up and actually have some discussion if we are talking after 8 games and we are 1-7 there truly will be some Morale issues.

Anyways. I'm not afraid to stick with my convictions about this team. I will not put any Validation of a possible TEAM MORAL issue and I'm surprised knowledgable Browns fans would even bring it up. I mean Dislike Farmer all you want but not even the hatred to Banner or Mangini would bring out of thread like this. If a poster did...they were equally SILLY.

jmhStrong Conviction

Silly?

That's the same thing you have said for years when I have made posts about didn't fit into what you wanted others to believe.

You won't change, but hopefully, others are seeing through your act.

Look..........guys like tab and 88 have tried to derail this thread by turning my words around.

I am going to post my first post again. It is my hope to have some intelligent discussion, rather than the made-up stuff that some are trying to sell.

Please pay particular attention to the bolded parts, as they clearly refute what tab and 88 have said regarding my comments.

I think it is a possibility, Vers, but I would not put Meder and Orchard in the stiff category. It is something that may have started with the benching of Hoyer last year. A big tipoff could be today, when we see how the team responds to the new and improved Johnny.
I think keeping Bowe was a bad move for both talent and morale. He is clearly collecting a paycheck on the downside of his career, and he makes it obvious. And it isn't like Austin last year, where he gave his money's worth. This guy is like Keith Hernandez going to the Tribe. I would think the players hate that.

It may not be a silly thread, but it is perhaps premature. Let's hope this thread loses traction as the season rolls on...

Do you think frustrated and low morale are synonymous in how you look at a team?

Are the signs displayed on the field or in off the field media? Are they reflected in Win/Losses or in the overall effort? I have no experience in this so I am wondering.

You hear things like 'the players are behind [or buy into] the coach or QB'or buy into the system...is this indicative of morale?

It would seem like the most morale killing item would be a lack of consistency at the Head Coach position and constant turn-over. I imagine a 'brotherhood' mindset of everyone in the locker room and coaches so would morale have less to do with wins/losses or schemes but a lack of confidence is the organizations's ability to support the players?

Do you think players player harder for different QBs and morale is based on who they think gives them a better chance? Just wondering on what to look for on some of the leading indicators.

You are 100% correct. And we were told about that too. How we would run the ball. How we would stop the run. Those are things we were told that were addressed and were what the team was concentrating to address. After an entire off season, how did that work out last week?



Twisted into what you are attempting to say that I and some others have said, which is not true in any way, you would be right. But you're not.

What I'm saying, and Vers made it VERY obvious, is that the team certainly quit last week. So the question is, will it be a problem going forward, or not? Nobody said it will be. But we saw it with our own eyes last week, so it is something to watch for.



If you didn't think the team simply gave up, showed a lack of intensity and discipline with 12 penalties last week, that's your opinion. That's not what many saw. So fans should just be quiet about that and not wonder if it's a problem? Got it Captain Dawgtalk!



Since when was it Farmers responsibility to coach this team and prepare it for game day? Sounds like you're missing something here.

Pit - I see a response to Eo, but not to my Q. Other than being factually accurate, what impact do you think losing 6 games in a row split over two seasons means? Do you think the 5 games lost at the end of last season are influencing anything this season? Do you think the team is so weak minded that they collapsed and need to be wrapped in some pink taffeta to sooth their tormented egos?

I see where you are going with this, but I'm not so sure it has impacted the psyche of this year's team, mainly because of what Vers described as Camp Cupcake. It didn't sound like many of our vets were preparing for this season like they could have been

Just glad to see the entire team playing with some fire after last week's debacle. OK, on to the second half. Stay strong Browns!

j/c:

No team morale whatsoever!

Just Clicking

Wasn't it sad to see how the teams morale sank into the gutter today when Manziel stepped up under center

Gee, what a surprise that Memphis and Daman totally miscontrued my points and instead tried to poke fun.

I've been very clear. This is not a one game thing. The proof will be over the course of the season, especially when adversity rears it's ugly head.

Vers, I have to disagree. I think right now where this team is mentally and also being so young, that it is a game to game thing roller coaster of emotions. This team quit after the Gipson pick and Pet helped this team pull it together for this weke. They just arent established enough to be more emotionally stable.

No one is misconstruing your points and it is very clear what you are trying to convey is this thread, regardless of any fair and balanced approach you claim to make...you started this thread (and other threads) to attempt to advance your negative view of this team. Let's take a look at some other threads you've started, shall we?

1. Questioning team morale.
2. Is anyone excited for the season?
3. The Browns' Pre-season ranking at 30th
4. NFL's weakest position groups (guess who you wanted to highlight?)
5. "Haslem's next move of deceit" (this one's my favorite )
6. Bradford would not sign extension w/ Browns

Yeah, you're pretty balanced!!

I honestly don't think that Vers sees that he does that. It's like a very subtle smear campaign.

Subtle? Only to him. It's obvious to others.

I like reading the contrarian / loyal opposition P.O.V. on the board, like Vers and DJ (and others). I think it makes for a more interesting and lively MB because they spur conversation. What I wish is that posters on both sides of a given discussion would post on the subject, and not the personality posting it. More facts and less insults from those who disagree, as well as thicker skin on the part of those whose views are being challenged would alleviate many of the nasty confrontations we seem to see a lot of these days.

Well you make this thread after our first loss when so many are depressed, angry and ready to lynch the entire FO and Coaching staff.

Yes, silly.

Too soon but when I state after the game you are going on before the game. That you have deducted the possible MORALE issue.

Here is the facts and you know it 100% True.

If you lose the Moral of the team goes down.
If you win the Moral of the team goes up.

It rarely has to do with HATRED or DISTRUST of the FO or Coaching staff. THE SAME people win all is GOOD.

My wish was not to DERAIL or Sabotage your thread. I think making it after a depressing loss for most fans and I don't think ONE PLAYER ENJOYED THAT LOSS.

Its Obvious...and I even said it - we are 1-7 after 8 games. I would expect some grumbling and definite Morale being low.

But to be LOW before the start of the season. When all teams are looking forward to the season. I think the team most definitely came out flat. I definitely think there was a let down when OUR Starting QB from the entire Training Camp who the players believed in went down the first series.

But the only way for MORALE to be low as you said it COULD BE or SOMETHING WE HAVE TO LOOK OUT FOR. Is if the players had no or little trust or respect for their Coaching Staff and Front Office. You know basically your opinion.

Its ok for you to call those who have a good feeling about the Coaching n FO to be PROPAGANDIST of the team and just dummies following what is spoon fed to us. That to you is not insulting but just the truth.

You can't have it both ways.

I will say this once again. Yes, you are correct if we lose a lot of games and in a row. MORALE will be low, that is common sense.

If we win and especially if we win more than we lose - Morale will be up.

And most of my disagreement and opinion here is the same history of our team and fans - a grass movement to be started to get rid of our REGIME...Farmer will not go - they all will go.

Just like Savage went...so did RAC although RAC I'm not sure deserved to go. But it was a clean sweep.

I'm sick of the Regime Changes. I think we got Good YOUNG GUYS (you wish to look at them as simply Inexperienced) I wish to look at them as young guys all looking to make this team great!

jmho After yesterdays win...I'm just guessing but I think the players Morale is up

"...as well as thicker skin on the part of those whose views are being challenged would alleviate many of the nasty confrontations we seem to see a lot of these days."

Absolutley, there are WAY too many thin-skinned people on this board. It's really amazing at how offended some people get about the simplest things. I don't know how some members have made it through life with how easily they get hurt (I hope that doesn't offend anybody).

I do not mind replying if my reply is going to be discussed, but to reply and get called names because I dared to defy the opinion of an "expert" is demeaning. If the "expert" is as good as they think they are.. they should send a resume to Haslam, or one of the other 31 teams, and interview for a position. Don't try to be a message board bully.

Nobody here is an expert, no matter how much they claim to be or truly think they are. We're ALL fans watching from the sideline with absolutely no input on the team's successes and failures. When you realize that, you then realize their attempt at being a bully is laughable. If you don't give them the power of being a bully, they're nothing. People can make fun of you or call you names all day long and you shouldn't couldn't care less. Anybody trying to be a message board bully is a joke.

I left off your last line of sarcasm. Yes, I believe a culture of losing is something that's quite obvious if you look across the league. I believe a continuous change over in coaches and coordinators can help a culture of losing.

I don't believe it has to, but it often times can and does. Now this week the team was up for the game and ready to play. JFF is getting better.

There's a difference if something will happen or can happen. But we see many teams around the league that are cellar dwellers from one season to the next. If you don't believe they are suffering from a culture of losing, then we simply disagree. If you don't believe their current results are in part due to past failures, then we disagree.

Teams sometimes do eventually turn it around. And as Browns fans we hope every year is that year. Maybe this year will be it. But to see that a culture of losing can be an ongoing trend from one year to the next, you need only look around the league to see just how true that can be.

Of course, every post on here except for Pit's and tabs [to some extent] is dealing w/perspectives of posters rather than the topic.

That is why I think most posters on this board are a complete joke. Hope that doesn't hurt your feelings.

Actually your the only reason I come here, I grab my beer and popcorn and enjoy the show.

I could have given you a hell of a show were I allowed to say the same things as other posters, but I would get suspended.

Believe me, after reading those genius posts that had nothing at all to do w/the thread, I had some choice words for them. LOL

They don't even talk about the topic. They make it about me. Freaking Memphis lists my posts. He's like a stalker. Kinda creepy that someone who dislikes you spends so much time following you around. <<shudder>>

Well, I for one think you are highly competent when defining x's and o's of a game or a play or a player.

So, yeah, I can see where you might think I'm a joke

Is your post about the thread topic, or you and I?

Just wondering?

No sarcasm at all - just painting an extreme picture to make the point.

I agree 100% about that the Browns have had a culture of losing - and to be honest I thought that despite the win at the weekend, we saw a little bit of that hanging over the team when we lost momentum and we played not to lose. Playing conservatively like they did when they had the lead is a born from a culture of losing. The Patriots, Steelers and other good teams don't have to deal with the fear of losing factor. They would have stepped on the neck of their opponent and finished it. Interestingly while we went conservative on O - the defense (where Pet is more comfortable from a coaching and experience perspective) we were still aggressive which is improvement.

However - that said - my initial comments and your response to me were whether a team of professional athletes could (start to) lose their morale after a single game of a new season as suggested by the originator of the thread. In fact, since I wasn't logged in early today I saw that the poster has since shown his true colors so to speak and stated 'as fact' that the team will without doubt lose their morale and its only a matter of time before they collapse mentally ... no doubt all due to the perceived incompetence of the FO. . . .

Anyway, I agree statistically that we had lost 6 in a row. I agree that the Browns are still fighting a culture of losing. I think that the losing streak at the end of last season might be a factor and contribute to players attitudes if they go on a 4 or 5 losing skid this season. . . . . I do not believe that any player was thinking about or affected by last season's losing skid after/during game 1 of this season. I believe that the soft camp, the OL coach fiasco and then McCown getting hurt at the end of a first (and most excellent) drive were more likely to be adverse effects on team performance. My 2 cents.

And then:

Back to the topic: Morale is always higher when things are going right, and lower when things aren't.

I don't think team morale is an issue at this point.

I meant what I said, I do find you highly competent in specific areas and completely off base on others.

When you called posters a joke, was that about the thread topic?

so....... how is Team Morale this week?

It's awesome. I was so "silly" to ever question it. Purely agenda driven w/absolutely no substance behind the wonderings.....

You have to have a team to have morale. We don't have a team.
Maybe a "scout" team.

Browns player quotes - 10/1

Link

Included below are select quotes from interviews with the following Browns players during today’s media availability:



TE Gary Barnidge
WR Travis Benjamin
RB Isaiah Crowell
DB Tashaun Gipson
OL John Greco
WR Brian Hartline
WR Andrew Hawkins
RB Duke Johnson Jr.
RB Robert Turbin
DB Donte Whitner



TE Gary Barnidge:

On if he is a blocking or receiving TE:

“When I got drafted, everybody considered me a receiving tight end. After my first year in Carolina, I was considered a blocking tight end. Everywhere I’ve been, it’s gone back and forth. Every year, it seems like I go from receiving to blocking, receiving to blocking. I want to be known as I can do both, not one or the other.”

On his performance last game as his role going forward:

“I don’t really consider any role as that because everybody gets everybody open. It’s a different week. It’s different guys. It’s not always going to be the same guy every week, and we don’t gameplan for one guy to get all these catches or one guy to do all of this stuff. Everybody gameplans together and guys just get other guys open. That’s all it is.”

On if he looks for more opportunities to catch the football as a TE:

“You do look for things like that, but you also know, them as a defense, they’re going to work to fix so it doesn’t happen again. You can’t count on that to happen every time so you have to game plan as a team and let things fall where they fall.

WR Travis Benjamin:

On if he is frustrated with his punt return performance last week:

“Not at all. I’m still confident. I’m still going to be out there and be the punt return guy and go out there and play full speed every snap. Just going out there knowing I just can’t make that mistake again.”

On not connecting with QB Josh McCown for many deep balls:

“Just caching the ball. It’s just catch and pass. Even though it was a deep ball and I didn’t catch it or he so called didn’t put the ball on the spot, it’s all about just catching the ball from a receiver standpoint. You want those balls deep to give your receiver a try. Nobody to blame it on. We hit a couple deep balls in practice this week. Hopefully, we go into Sunday and knock them down.”

On if he prefers to play with QB Johnny Manziel:

“Not at all. Not at all. It doesn’t matter if it’s Johnny, Josh or even if they bring (QB Austin) Davis in. it doesn’t matter. Whoever throws the ball, we have to get out there and catch the ball. That’s it.”

RB Isaiah Crowell:

On his play against Oakland:

“I feel like I played okay. As a team, we just have to step it up and be more sound. Myself, I have to do better. That is what it is.”

On if the Browns didn’t run the ball much against the Raiders because they were trailing:

“Yes, anytime you get behind, you have to try to do things to play catch up. I feel like that really did take a big part in the ball game.”

On if the Browns are running the wide-zone running scheme as much as last year:

“The season just started so I really can’t say what we are doing more of or what we are not doing because there is a lot of season to go. I don’t know right now.”

On missing the hole on the goal-line run:

“Yeah, I should have hit it a gap outside of what I did. I have to do a better job of seeing the holes and picking and choosing. That was on me.”

On how good of a RB he can be:

“I feel like I can be a big-time running back. I feel like I have all the tools and what it takes. I am just waiting. It is the coach’s decision on what they would like to do. I am just waiting and playing my role.”

DB Tashaun Gipson:

On how he feels physically:

“I feel good. Just bumps and bruises. That’s part of being in this league. It’s 100-percent injury ridden league. I had a minor groin issue, but come game time, I’m more than confident I’ll be out there with my guys.”

On the defensive issues:

“It’s a lot of different things. It’s more than just. I don’t think that it’s fair to pinpoint and say, ‘Hey, it’s one thing that we can’t stop the run.’ I don’t think it’s fair to say that that’s the problem. When quarterbacks are throwing the ball, they’re completing passes so we can’t put it all on the front seven. It’s a cumulative effort. The defensive front seven and the back four, we all have to play as one unit together, and I don’t think we’ve been doing a good job so far. When you look at it, we have all the guys we need on paper. We just haven’t been able to show up. Like I said last time I talked to you guys, we’re not in panic mode. Last year , if you remember the first couple of games, we started off similar to this – gave up a couple 300-yard passing games and we claimed to be one of the best secondarys in the league last year. I don’t think there’s room for panic in nobody’s room, whether that be the defensive line or linebacker corps or the DB room. I think we’re all definitely excited for another challenge this Sunday.”

On DB Donte Whitner and comments that he’s ‘aged quickly’:

“If it’s one guy, I wouldn’t rather play with another safety in this league, and that’s truly from the heart. I have nothing but respect for him and the way he approaches the game. Him as a player, like I said, he’s not going to make every play. I don’t think it’s nothing to attribute to his age. It’s just that sometimes guys are going to make a play. They’re high paid athletes just like we are. Donte for sure is feeling some type of way. I’m pretty sure you guys already know that, and I sit right next to him so I know he is. He’s going to come out with a chip on his shoulder. I don’t think he’s been under this type of pressure in his career thus far. He’s definitely going to rebound and be the Donte Whitner, the Pro Bowl player that he was last year. I think he actually got a little more pep in his step this year than last year. I give him a hard time about it. ‘Man, you look faster to me this year.’ I think that he’ll be fine. I’m not worried about Whitner. I know that sometimes we can get caught up with what we read on Twitter. That’s why I typically don’t read my twitter, especially after loses. You just have to learn how to roll with it and just go from there. That’s the price you pay being a professional athlete.”

OL John Greco:

On if the departure of former offensive line coach Andy Moeller has had an impact:

“Anytime that happens, especially when it is someone like you said, when two guys are sharing duties and one is gone and everything is on the remaining guy, it is going to be a tough adjustment. I give all the credit in the world to (assistant offensive line coach) George (DeLeone). Even he was just doing the pass, the guy was here all day, every day. First one here, last one out of the building, putting that whole other side on him. I think he has done a hell of a job.”

On what he sees in the running game:

“It is easy for me to sit here and say we are not hitting the panic button because we only had 14 run attempts. In our minds, a positive run attempt, a successful run attempt, we said we had five of 14 (against Oakland). If you look at those two goal line runs, one or two things here and there then we are seven out of 14. That is 50 percent. If you are at 50 percent or above success rate in your run game, you should be a pretty good team. We are one or two things short here and there. That is the most frustrating (part) about it. I don’t know think it is this big cataclysmic thing that we are having a problem with. It is just one guy here and there. It is all of us. We’re trying to get that cleaned up. If we do we know we have something special.”

On what was it like to lose a coach in season:

“It is different. It is tough, but it is like a player getting traded or released or losing a guy to injury. You just have to move on. Just because it was the situation that it was, we have to move – I hate to say it – but like it never happened. That is just the nature of the business. There is no time to sit back and say, ‘What just happened?’ We had a game that week. We have a game in a couple days. We have to prepare each week and get ready each week. If something happens, if a curve ball is throw at you – like you said adversity – we have to fight through it.”

WR Brian Hartline:

On if he has ever previously had a season where he makes two circus catches:

“I just try to make a play when a play is presented. Not the first time, hopefully not the last time.”

On if it affects his preparation when San Diego’s secondary is reportedly banged up:

“No, I do a little bit of personnel study, which is always good. I look at the scheme probably more and what they try to do defensively as a whole. There is definitely parts for scheming for individuals and knowing how they like to play, but I think a lot of the guys will be coming back. I don’t think they are as banged up as perceived.”

On saying the Browns needed to be more aggressive:

“It took us too long to get started, and we needed to be more aggressive out of the gate.”

On if he means from an energy standpoint:

“Nope, I don’t think energy was a problem. I think we were flat in the essence of not executing. The perception can be that they weren’t pumped up to play, but anytime you can’t stay on the field, it is pretty hard to be successful. We weren’t doing a good job staying on the field.”

On if he meant it more from a player’s perspective:

“We just need to execute better. We need to stay on the field. We need to get more plays ran in the first half.”

On if that was a point of emphasis this week:

“It is always a point of emphasis. It always is.”

WR Andrew Hawkins:

On if it was important to clear the air after the TMZ article:

“Honestly, it wasn’t even so much about (that). For me, it wasn’t about the context of the article as much as it was just the fact that people were taking it and running with it. The things that were in the article, it wasn’t even about that. It was the fact that nobody wants a representation of what I am not be true. By saying that and saying it’s anonymous, it could be any one of us. I think it’s important for most guys to know, no, that’s not how we operate here. That’s why I love the guys on this offense and on this team, period, because they’re stand-up guys and that’s what they believe.”

On if he felt the need to reiterate his support of QB Josh McCown in person:

“No, I don’t. Like I said, I speak highly of Josh and I mean it. I speak highly of (QB) Johnny (Manziel) and I mean it. They’re two great quarterbacks. We have the luxury of having two great quarterbacks in the room. When you have two good quarterbacks, from the media standpoint and a fan standpoint, there’s going to be sides of the fence, but the guys in here know that we’re a family, we’re tightknit. Johnny’s development, Josh is catering to that. If Josh is out there, Johnny’s coming to the sideline and telling Josh what he’s seeing and helping Josh. There’s no need for me to have to go to either one of them because they both know where I stand because we all stand in the same place with each other. This is a team and this is a close-knit offense and that’s what I appreciate about it. “

On if there are still things the offense needs to do to move to ball:

“Yeah, there’s a lot of things we need to do on offense and I’d be saying the same thing if we were sitting here at 3-0. It’s about continuing to get better. Anytime you have drives that don’t end in touchdowns you can do better. Obviously we’re not that close to being that but I say that to say we always have to improve. There’s always thing we need to do better and like I said, hopefully we can work to do enough to end up on the winning side of the football game.”

RB Duke Johnson Jr.:

On how good his 18-yard reception felt against Oakland:

“It felt good just to get out there and get in a live situation, not practice. Catch it, make a move, get up field and get out of bounds in the two-minute situation.”

On if that is the best he has felt playing this season:

“As of now, yeah. I haven’t had many opportunities yet to catch a pass out of the backfield, but we are working on getting towards it.”

On if he is getting better every week:

“That is the plan.”

On if he is up to speed after missing some time in the preseason:

“I think I am fine. Still out here playing and try to make a difference.”

On if the change of speed from college to the NFL is faster than he expected:

“No, it is just about around the speed I expected. Not too fast, not too slow; it is right there.”

RB Robert Turbin:

On if he is anxious to contribute right away:

“I’m definitely anxious to play football. The only thing I want to do is do the best I can for these guys, for the team. Perform at the very highest level that I can perform to help us win football games.”

On his ankle:

“It’s getting there. It’s getting real close. Starting to run, starting to run full speed. Like I said, we want to put some extra weight on the ankle with the helmet and shoulder pads and change direction that way, catch a couple footballs and accelerate down the field and see how it felt, and then just shut it down and continue to progress from there.”

On the Browns bringing him to the team, despite being injured:

“It’s incredibly humbling to get a team that knows I’m going to be out and teammates that are happy that I’m here, although I’m not playing yet. To have those guys around is definitely encouraging it’s motivating its inspiring. That’s why I want to get back on the field and be there for those guys and contribute to the team.”

DB Donte Whitner:

On his performance:

“Me, personally? Up and down. Missed a few tackles. I see a lot of people writing me off as being old and this and that and wanting me replaced and all these things, but I can accept the criticism, being a leader of this defense. It’s OK. We’re going to fix it. A lot of things are easily correctable.”

On how the Browns work on tackling:

“We tackled a lot today in individual. You have to go – I guess the DB’s but more so when you’re in practice – you have to make sure you really concentrate on breaking down, not breaking down too early and making sure that you wrap those tackles. That’s something that I got away from and that’s something we got away from as a defense, and we’ve been working on it.”

On the notion that the run defense has gotten worse:

“I wouldn’t say it has gotten worse. I would say there’s two or three plays per game that we let out that we really shouldn’t have. That goes for all of us from the defensive line to linebackers to safeties and keeping it in between us and getting the guy on the ground. We can’t give up big plays. When you give up big plays, that’s what happens, especially in the run game. If you watch the film, you’ll see 10, 12 plays where they try to run the football and barely get anything. Then, you’ll see that one break out for 40, 50 or 60. Just being consistent and not allowing that one to get out and us getting them on the ground.”

May I asked why you posted that article in this thread?

Yes you may ask.

so....... how is Team Morale this week?

Dwayne Bowe's tenure with the #Browns in one pic:

There's a few more threads you can post this in... Please do...

ok. if you wish.

Is that Dave Chapelle?

Great pic. LOL.