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When I rewatched the game, the defeatist attitude really came out and yea I felt worried about Pet after watching this and I am a big Pet fan but he needs to pull this team together in a hurry or its #1 pick type bad. Mourg I don't think its Pet I think its what he has to work with. I understand that many or even most don't agree with that statement but this team is dysfunctional on so many levels and Pet has and is playing along with that dysfunction unfortunately. That's my opinion and my assessment of who we are as a team. I realize that my response is short and it doesn't lay out why I feel that way and its a whole lot of little things that lead me to that conclusion unfortunately that's what I think and I have no desire to write a book about it so this is short on reason. MY one hope is that this is the plan to tank this season secure the 1st pick and get this thing turned around. ??????????????????????????????????????? I will say this too, if this is indeed the best they can do, and their not tanking the season then we need to change course quickly.
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Legend
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Well then you are way off the mark and just wanting to believe these guys are way inferior. Was that concluded after their 7-9 season after exceeding the last 6 seasons including one with the great Banner?
Or.... you could say after their sixth loss in a row..... Remember, while you call it one game, this team lost five games in a row to end last season. At some point, even you have to admit that's a cumulative effect.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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j/c
I am struggling to believe on a 'football talk' thread - there is so much pure speculation about *feelings* after one game of the season. I understand as fans we have seasons of misery piling up that influence our attitude and outlook on the team. . . . you don't have to read the board for long to see how ingrained the expectation of the worst possible scenario has become in some. . . . but come on, people are trying to interpret players feelings - which can only be speculation on anyone's part - and then extrapolate that and apply it to the rest of the season. It's even more absurd than the posters who have already determined the grades on our latest draft class and decided how each Rookie is going to pan out for their career with the Browns.
I was as disappointed as anyone with the performance vs the Jets. But come on - let's have a larger sample size before we say the team has quit - before we try to play amateur psychologist and get touchy feely about the players emotional state. . .
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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So you too are calling this one game instead of our sixth loss in a row?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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So you too are calling this one game instead of our sixth loss in a row? It's one game. Period. The team has how many new players since the end of last season? How many new coaching staff. How many games have we played this season? I know it seems popular and easy to throw around phrases like mental midgets and such ... and I saw how a pick up game has more passion in it than the Browns apparently showed .... But let me ask you .... if you were on the team. If it was your livelihood and your profession .... would you quit? Would you be mooching around and hoping the F.O gets axed and there was a new regime next year. It's just too easy and simplistic to throw that stuff around - I don't buy it. I don't believe ANY professional athlete on the face of the planet playing any sport, for any team regardless of how good, bad or awful that team is - plays one game of a new season, says - damn, if we look back to last year we've now lost 'X' games in a row - that's it I am giving up. My next game I'll only give 75%.... Doesn't happen.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Team morale is probably a whole lot higher than fan morale.
If the team stinks this year, they should be in line for a QB. There will probably be 3 or 4 coming out. The decision will be which one.
Same as it has been since 99.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
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Legend
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I know it seems popular and easy to throw around phrases like mental midgets and such ... and I saw how a pick up game has more passion in it than the Browns apparently showed .... I saw that too. Yet I didn't say any of those things. But let me ask you .... if you were on the team. If it was your livelihood and your profession .... would you quit? What I can say is what I saw last week. I saw a team that appeared to lack the intensity you would like to see. They didn't seem motivated or disciplined. Now what we'll see from here on out is anybody's guess at this point. However, it did seem that way last week and I do believe it's worth watching out for. Would you be mooching around and hoping the F.O gets axed and there was a new regime next year. Those are things I never said either. It's just too easy and simplistic to throw that stuff around - I don't buy it. I don't believe ANY professional athlete on the face of the planet playing any sport, for any team regardless of how good, bad or awful that team is - plays one game of a new season, says - damn, if we look back to last year we've now lost 'X' games in a row - that's it I am giving up. My next game I'll only give 75%....
Doesn't happen. What I can tell you is this team has in fact lost six games in a row now. That's how the records are kept. I simply brought that up because another poster tried using the line, "But we were 7-9 last year". He brought up last year, I didn't. So yes, if a poster, in this case eotab, wants to bring last year into the equation, then that opens the door to state that this is our 6th loss in a row, don't you think?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I just hope he doesn't try to jump into the dogpound. How humiliating would that be? I still remember when OchoStinko tried it.
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Statistically we have lost 6 in a row. Yep.
What is the point of this observation in regards to the emotional state of the players? I need clarification from you if you want to have a meaningful conversation. It doesn't seem like you have said anything at all other than state a statistical fact that may or may not have any effect on the feelings of the players .... you know I don't think it does.
My initial post was a general observation on all the comments on the board. You asked if I was denying that they had lost 6 games in a row with the inference being you disagreed with everything I wrote. I answered again in general to the comments on the board. . . . You seem to have muddied my response with Eo ... so in order to prevent that, answer the Q in the paragraph above and then we can talk.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Btw, we had super competitive basketball runs this morning. Lots of fire and competitive spirit. I almost threw up...which was actually a combination of the heat, going all out, and being out of shape. But I was willing to throw up for my team. 
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we had the runs this morning. GM would be proud...(age) Lots of fire and competitive spirit. Credit the blue pill.. (age) almost threw up.. a combination of the heat, going all out, and being out of shape. I told her.. it was ..(age) But I was willing to throw up for my team You"ll Learn (age ) 
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Right the moral is so low??? Come on Vers do yo really believe what you write?
Gee, where is steve? I thought he hated when posters made fun of other posters in this manner? Oh..........and no tab, I don't believe any of it. I am just making it all up because I hate Farmer. My points have no validity at all. Now, will you go away?
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Who are you to tell Pit what to do on this thread? I started the thread and you certainly have changed the meaning of many of my points.
I NEVER said it was about one game. I have included numerous reasons at least 2 to 4 separate times.
You don't have an argument, so you start your usual crap of making it about the poster[s] rather than the topic. I despise posters like you.
Talk about the subject at hand instead of belittling other posters as your defense.
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we're about to see where the team moral is today.
home opener, team coming off embarrassing loss. hopefully we show some fight.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I know that everyone always wants an answer to a question immediately, but as I mentioned in my initial post..........I think it is too early to make any conclusions.
I think this is something to keep an eye on over the course of the season.
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I stated nobody is happy with a loss. It is deflating. Morale? That is a damning thing. Morale indicates to me that Pettine and staff are LOSING THE TEAM. And I don't think I ever EVER remember in all the HORRIBLE SEASONS here since 99 that we have ever lost the team by GAME ONE or as Vers stated PRIOR to game one. That is simply and Indictment on this Regime. Dress it up anyway you want to - simply the Combo of Haslam, Famer and Pettine is the absolute WORST we have had here.
And that would include the PERSONNEL here. Including the former Pro Bowlers we have here.
I'm calling this what this is. Silly. Based on selected quotes from THOUSANDS.
Can I believe our FAN base is down in Morale...100% and all those things you state.
As for football players - assessing the past season. With 5losses in a row. That is what the off season is for. They worked hard in the off season. Some coming back from injury. Whittner tells it like it is...for him.
He is the typical surly knarly defensive pro. Its not Morale for him...its about Winning.
So Pit..and whoever. Just cause FANS are ready to give up...how the heck do you guys think well it must be with the PLAYERS...Before friggen Game ONE!
I will call this thread what it is...Silly
I know this will not sit well with Vers...but sorry I will not hold your hand in this. Doesn't mean I don't like him doesn't mean I will insult him. Just cause I strongly disagree doesn't mean I am insulting.
I don't expect all of us to be on the same page.
But the premise that in season two - prior to the start of season two. The Regime of Haslam, Farmer and Pettine are losing the players...from the get go. I can see something like this popping up and actually have some discussion if we are talking after 8 games and we are 1-7 there truly will be some Morale issues.
Anyways. I'm not afraid to stick with my convictions about this team. I will not put any Validation of a possible TEAM MORAL issue and I'm surprised knowledgable Browns fans would even bring it up. I mean Dislike Farmer all you want but not even the hatred to Banner or Mangini would bring out of thread like this. If a poster did...they were equally SILLY.
jmhStrong Conviction
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Silly?
That's the same thing you have said for years when I have made posts about didn't fit into what you wanted others to believe.
You won't change, but hopefully, others are seeing through your act.
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Look..........guys like tab and 88 have tried to derail this thread by turning my words around. I am going to post my first post again. It is my hope to have some intelligent discussion, rather than the made-up stuff that some are trying to sell. Please pay particular attention to the bolded parts, as they clearly refute what tab and 88 have said regarding my comments. I have no facts and I am not even saying I am right, but my intuition is usually pretty good. I have read a few comments from players questioning personnel decisions. I watched our team play sloppy ball in the opener. I watched them quit when things got tough. I have seen many, many questionable personnel decisions. I have heard corny phrases about "playing like a Brown," and then we cut guys who play like professionals and keep guys who have not, but were brought in by the current regime. I have seen good players like Winn, Kitchen, Skrine, etc not retained, while stiffs like Gilbert, Bowe, Orchard, and Meder are retained.
I see a first time GM who has no experience w/the draft. I see a first time head coach who hides behind his sunglasses. I see an owner who is a crook. I see a first time OC who doesn't understand run blocking like his predecessor. I see a first time QB coach who never had a meaningful job before.
These guys are in charge of grown men.
It's too early to say that team morale is low or that this regime has lost the team. Let me say that again......it is too early to declare that team morale is low and the regime has lost the players.
However, it is NOT too early to keep an eye on this possible situation. I have been around the game enough to know warning signs when they raise their ugly heads. There are some signs. I will be monitoring the situation.
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All Pro
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I think it is a possibility, Vers, but I would not put Meder and Orchard in the stiff category. It is something that may have started with the benching of Hoyer last year. A big tipoff could be today, when we see how the team responds to the new and improved Johnny.
I think keeping Bowe was a bad move for both talent and morale. He is clearly collecting a paycheck on the downside of his career, and he makes it obvious. And it isn't like Austin last year, where he gave his money's worth. This guy is like Keith Hernandez going to the Tribe. I would think the players hate that.
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Let me say that again......it is too early to declare that team morale is low... It may not be a silly thread, but it is perhaps premature. Let's hope this thread loses traction as the season rolls on...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Legend
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Btw, we had super competitive basketball runs this morning. Lots of fire and competitive spirit. I almost threw up...which was actually a combination of the heat, going all out, and being out of shape. But I was willing to throw up for my team.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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It's too early to say that team morale is low or that this regime has lost the team. Let me say that again......it is too early to declare that team morale is low and the regime has lost the players.
However, it is NOT too early to keep an eye on this possible situation. I have been around the game enough to know warning signs when they raise their ugly heads. There are some signs. I will be monitoring the situation.
Do you think frustrated and low morale are synonymous in how you look at a team? Are the signs displayed on the field or in off the field media? Are they reflected in Win/Losses or in the overall effort? I have no experience in this so I am wondering. You hear things like 'the players are behind [or buy into] the coach or QB'or buy into the system...is this indicative of morale? It would seem like the most morale killing item would be a lack of consistency at the Head Coach position and constant turn-over. I imagine a 'brotherhood' mindset of everyone in the locker room and coaches so would morale have less to do with wins/losses or schemes but a lack of confidence is the organizations's ability to support the players? Do you think players player harder for different QBs and morale is based on who they think gives them a better chance? Just wondering on what to look for on some of the leading indicators.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." [Mark Twain]
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As for football players - assessing the past season. With 5losses in a row. That is what the off season is for. They worked hard in the off season. You are 100% correct. And we were told about that too. How we would run the ball. How we would stop the run. Those are things we were told that were addressed and were what the team was concentrating to address. After an entire off season, how did that work out last week? So Pit..and whoever. Just cause FANS are ready to give up...how the heck do you guys think well it must be with the PLAYERS...Before friggen Game ONE!
I will call this thread what it is...Silly Twisted into what you are attempting to say that I and some others have said, which is not true in any way, you would be right. But you're not. What I'm saying, and Vers made it VERY obvious, is that the team certainly quit last week. So the question is, will it be a problem going forward, or not? Nobody said it will be. But we saw it with our own eyes last week, so it is something to watch for. But the premise that in season two - prior to the start of season two. The Regime of Haslam, Farmer and Pettine are losing the players...from the get go. I can see something like this popping up and actually have some discussion if we are talking after 8 games and we are 1-7 there truly will be some Morale issues. If you didn't think the team simply gave up, showed a lack of intensity and discipline with 12 penalties last week, that's your opinion. That's not what many saw. So fans should just be quiet about that and not wonder if it's a problem? Got it Captain Dawgtalk! Anyways. I'm not afraid to stick with my convictions about this team. I will not put any Validation of a possible TEAM MORAL issue and I'm surprised knowledgable Browns fans would even bring it up. I mean Dislike Farmer all you want but not even the hatred to Banner or Mangini would bring out of thread like this. If a poster did...they were equally SILLY.
jmhStrong Conviction Since when was it Farmers responsibility to coach this team and prepare it for game day? Sounds like you're missing something here. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Pit - I see a response to Eo, but not to my Q. Other than being factually accurate, what impact do you think losing 6 games in a row split over two seasons means? Do you think the 5 games lost at the end of last season are influencing anything this season? Do you think the team is so weak minded that they collapsed and need to be wrapped in some pink taffeta to sooth their tormented egos?
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Pit - I see a response to Eo, but not to my Q. Other than being factually accurate, what impact do you think losing 6 games in a row split over two seasons means? Do you think the 5 games lost at the end of last season are influencing anything this season? Do you think the team is so weak minded that they collapsed and need to be wrapped in some pink taffeta to sooth their tormented egos? I see where you are going with this, but I'm not so sure it has impacted the psyche of this year's team, mainly because of what Vers described as Camp Cupcake. It didn't sound like many of our vets were preparing for this season like they could have been
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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Just glad to see the entire team playing with some fire after last week's debacle. OK, on to the second half. Stay strong Browns!
The Browns finally have a leader in the building. It won't be long before Jim Schwartz is in charge. Thankfully.
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j/c:
No team morale whatsoever!
Tackles are tackles.
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Just Clicking Wasn't it sad to see how the teams morale sank into the gutter today when Manziel stepped up under center 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Gee, what a surprise that Memphis and Daman totally miscontrued my points and instead tried to poke fun.
I've been very clear. This is not a one game thing. The proof will be over the course of the season, especially when adversity rears it's ugly head.
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Vers, I have to disagree. I think right now where this team is mentally and also being so young, that it is a game to game thing roller coaster of emotions. This team quit after the Gipson pick and Pet helped this team pull it together for this weke. They just arent established enough to be more emotionally stable.
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Gee, what a surprise that Memphis and Daman totally miscontrued my points and instead tried to poke fun.
I've been very clear. This is not a one game thing. The proof will be over the course of the season, especially when adversity rears it's ugly head. No one is misconstruing your points and it is very clear what you are trying to convey is this thread, regardless of any fair and balanced approach you claim to make...you started this thread (and other threads) to attempt to advance your negative view of this team. Let's take a look at some other threads you've started, shall we? 1. Questioning team morale. 2. Is anyone excited for the season? 3. The Browns' Pre-season ranking at 30th 4. NFL's weakest position groups (guess who you wanted to highlight?) 5. "Haslem's next move of deceit" (this one's my favorite ) 6. Bradford would not sign extension w/ Browns Yeah, you're pretty balanced!! 
Tackles are tackles.
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Gee, what a surprise that Memphis and Daman totally miscontrued my points and instead tried to poke fun.
I've been very clear. This is not a one game thing. The proof will be over the course of the season, especially when adversity rears it's ugly head. No one is misconstruing your points and it is very clear what you are trying to convey is this thread, regardless of any fair and balanced approach you claim to make...you started this thread (and other threads) to attempt to advance your negative view of this team. Let's take a look at some other threads you've started, shall we? 1. Questioning team morale. 2. Is anyone excited for the season? 3. The Browns' Pre-season ranking at 30th 4. NFL's weakest position groups (guess who you wanted to highlight?) 5. "Haslem's next move of deceit" (this one's my favorite ) 6. Bradford would not sign extension w/ Browns Yeah, you're pretty balanced!! I honestly don't think that Vers sees that he does that. It's like a very subtle smear campaign.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Subtle? Only to him. It's obvious to others.
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Gee, what a surprise that Memphis and Daman totally miscontrued my points and instead tried to poke fun.
I've been very clear. This is not a one game thing. The proof will be over the course of the season, especially when adversity rears it's ugly head. No one is misconstruing your points and it is very clear what you are trying to convey is this thread, regardless of any fair and balanced approach you claim to make...you started this thread (and other threads) to attempt to advance your negative view of this team. Let's take a look at some other threads you've started, shall we? 1. Questioning team morale. 2. Is anyone excited for the season? 3. The Browns' Pre-season ranking at 30th 4. NFL's weakest position groups (guess who you wanted to highlight?) 5. "Haslem's next move of deceit" (this one's my favorite ) 6. Bradford would not sign extension w/ Browns Yeah, you're pretty balanced!! I like reading the contrarian / loyal opposition P.O.V. on the board, like Vers and DJ (and others). I think it makes for a more interesting and lively MB because they spur conversation. What I wish is that posters on both sides of a given discussion would post on the subject, and not the personality posting it. More facts and less insults from those who disagree, as well as thicker skin on the part of those whose views are being challenged would alleviate many of the nasty confrontations we seem to see a lot of these days.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Silly?
That's the same thing you have said for years when I have made posts about didn't fit into what you wanted others to believe.
You won't change, but hopefully, others are seeing through your act.
Yes, silly.
Too soon but when I state after the game you are going on before the game. That you have deducted the possible MORALE issue.
Here is the facts and you know it 100% True.
If you lose the Moral of the team goes down.
If you win the Moral of the team goes up.
It rarely has to do with HATRED or DISTRUST of the FO or Coaching staff. THE SAME people win all is GOOD.
My wish was not to DERAIL or Sabotage your thread. I think making it after a depressing loss for most fans and I don't think ONE PLAYER ENJOYED THAT LOSS.
Its Obvious...and I even said it - we are 1-7 after 8 games. I would expect some grumbling and definite Morale being low.
But to be LOW before the start of the season. When all teams are looking forward to the season. I think the team most definitely came out flat. I definitely think there was a let down when OUR Starting QB from the entire Training Camp who the players believed in went down the first series.
But the only way for MORALE to be low as you said it COULD BE or SOMETHING WE HAVE TO LOOK OUT FOR. Is if the players had no or little trust or respect for their Coaching Staff and Front Office. You know basically your opinion.
Its ok for you to call those who have a good feeling about the Coaching n FO to be PROPAGANDIST of the team and just dummies following what is spoon fed to us. That to you is not insulting but just the truth.
You can't have it both ways.
I will say this once again. Yes, you are correct if we lose a lot of games and in a row. MORALE will be low, that is common sense.
If we win and especially if we win more than we lose - Morale will be up.
And most of my disagreement and opinion here is the same history of our team and fans - a grass movement to be started to get rid of our REGIME...Farmer will not go - they all will go.
Just like Savage went...so did RAC although RAC I'm not sure deserved to go. But it was a clean sweep.
I'm sick of the Regime Changes. I think we got Good YOUNG GUYS (you wish to look at them as simply Inexperienced) I wish to look at them as young guys all looking to make this team great!
jmho After yesterdays win...I'm just guessing but I think the players Morale is up 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,184 Likes: 18
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,184 Likes: 18 |
"...as well as thicker skin on the part of those whose views are being challenged would alleviate many of the nasty confrontations we seem to see a lot of these days."
Absolutley, there are WAY too many thin-skinned people on this board. It's really amazing at how offended some people get about the simplest things. I don't know how some members have made it through life with how easily they get hurt (I hope that doesn't offend anybody).
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,465 |
I do not mind replying if my reply is going to be discussed, but to reply and get called names because I dared to defy the opinion of an "expert" is demeaning. If the "expert" is as good as they think they are.. they should send a resume to Haslam, or one of the other 31 teams, and interview for a position. Don't try to be a message board bully.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,184 Likes: 18
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,184 Likes: 18 |
Nobody here is an expert, no matter how much they claim to be or truly think they are. We're ALL fans watching from the sideline with absolutely no input on the team's successes and failures. When you realize that, you then realize their attempt at being a bully is laughable. If you don't give them the power of being a bully, they're nothing. People can make fun of you or call you names all day long and you shouldn't couldn't care less. Anybody trying to be a message board bully is a joke.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,995 Likes: 1360
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,995 Likes: 1360 |
Pit - I see a response to Eo, but not to my Q. Other than being factually accurate, what impact do you think losing 6 games in a row split over two seasons means? Do you think the 5 games lost at the end of last season are influencing anything this season? I left off your last line of sarcasm. Yes, I believe a culture of losing is something that's quite obvious if you look across the league. I believe a continuous change over in coaches and coordinators can help a culture of losing. I don't believe it has to, but it often times can and does. Now this week the team was up for the game and ready to play. JFF is getting better. There's a difference if something will happen or can happen. But we see many teams around the league that are cellar dwellers from one season to the next. If you don't believe they are suffering from a culture of losing, then we simply disagree. If you don't believe their current results are in part due to past failures, then we disagree. Teams sometimes do eventually turn it around. And as Browns fans we hope every year is that year. Maybe this year will be it. But to see that a culture of losing can be an ongoing trend from one year to the next, you need only look around the league to see just how true that can be.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
Of course, every post on here except for Pit's and tabs [to some extent] is dealing w/perspectives of posters rather than the topic.
That is why I think most posters on this board are a complete joke. Hope that doesn't hurt your feelings.
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