I think he needs a d@mn good one.

only if it is a darn good one...but who? idk...we will see how this plays out.

He dug really deep, back into his past, for our O Line coach.

Who knows, are there any legendary, old, offensive guys out there? What Hue needs is a guy that is clearly better at it than he is. Then he could be freed up to what he was hired to do -- learn how to be a great NFL Head Coach.

If there was an OC better than Hue willing to work for hue that would be kind of a bad choice for that person since he would be a HC candidate.

Some of you with this strange idea that we can land a better OC than Hue need to fix your brain because you're not thinking rationally.

but i don't think he'd ever relinquish play calling duties. he's been pretty adamant about it

No he doesn't.

He needs:

A cohesive OL
Another WEAPON
And a gosh damn QUARTERBACK

I'm sure there are a few of us old guys out here who are..."offensive".

"If there was an OC better than Hue willing to work for hue that would be kind of a bad choice for that person since he would be a HC candidate."

This.

Who's our QB coach right now?

Yeah, that shoe fits half the board here, lol.

We have one. He was just appointed. A shift in duties...I can't remember his name.

I'd just make him the part time OC in name only.

j/c

I think many people get the term offensive coordinator confused with play-caller. Hugh Jackson will be the play-caller. But to have a complete staff he still needs someone to coordinate the offense, especially when he is off doing head coaching stuff. Also, I think youth would be the way to go here to balance out the experience (age)of this staff.

That seems to be the answer I'd go with

I like the idea of Hue finding someone to mentor and build up to run his style of offense aka paul brown to bill walsh kind of thing

I think ed provided the most reasonable and correct answer.

I don't think that Hue needs to bring in someone to be the playcaller. I do think that he should have an OC to help w/practices, meetings, be a voice in his ear, concentrate on details, etc type of guy.

The problem is that any decent guy most likely would not want to come here. I think Greg Roman is an example of that kind of guy.

I bet the conversation will be hot and heavy during next year's season about Hue having too much on his plate and how he needs an OC. LOL

This reminds me of the the topic centered around "We need a proven talent evaluator/GM" conversation. How do we know Hue doesn't already have this person already in place? Someone to do the tasks you just described? Why does someone need to be called an Offensive Coordinator to do that when that role is generally around calling plays in the first place? I agree someone like Greg Roman would most likely be hired as an offensive coordinator only if he was given the role of calling plays, but I don't see the tasks you listed above needing the title of "offensive coordinator". Pep seemingly did that last year and he wasn't an offensive coordinator in title.

It's like the whole Andrew Berry thing. Just because he isn't called GM doesn't mean he is not leading talent evaluation and managing scouts. The question is who is calling the shots.

Give Hue more talent and I think that will address the concern of having/not having an OC more than anything. If you don't think Hue needs to relinquish play calling, then I don't think an Offensive Coordinator needs to be hired. If you think Hue should give it up, then that's a different conversation.

And running the offense can't be a part of that?

I would prefer if he did but, if Hue calls plays I can deal with that. He did it last year. However, I do believe we need a proper QB coach. I know he has his old coach out of Pacific working with QBs...I just hope that translates into the NFL.

This is more or less what I'm concerned about....has Hue hired the right people to assist with what he wants to do offensively if he is going to continue calling plays?

I have no doubts about that!

I wouldn't be surprised in the least that if, heaven forbid, our record isn't looking any better this year than last, that the top brass's first signs of tightening Hue's leash will be in insisting he hires an OC.

Greg Seamon, who was our TE coach last year but was Hue Jacksons OC in college when Hue was a QB.

the Asst OL coach Mark Hutson moved to TE coach.

I come down on the side of the fence that says, "no". He needs an influx of talent, a QB who can get the ball to open playmakers in a timely manner, and experience on the sideline as the HC. He's made some very stupid calls, and some highly questionable calls, but mainly as the HC. As the OC, he calls a pretty good, decently aggressive game. Time and game experience will help him grow, and refine his game managing skills. I'm ok with that.

I wish he'd rely on the run game more to establish the pass, then get a lead and keep it with the run game. Hopefully, we'll see a shift in paradigm with more talent, a decent QB, and an aggressive D that can get off the field on third down.

The TE coach now was in Oakland as TE coach when Myers had his "breakout" year (2012, I think, was looking them up the other day) there. That one seems fine.

QB coach, we'll have to see. I do like that Hue is familiar with him at least.

I'm not sure if Hue not having an OC will help or hurt us. I'm not sure how exactly he split his time last year. I think if he spends more time with the O it could help on offense as there seemed to be some disconnect at times with the play calling. I'm not sure how that will affect his head coaching and time management duties though.

j/c:

This reminds me of many conversations we have on this board. Some like to spin everything in a positive light and seemingly dislike conversation. Then, a year later they are calling for the head of <<insert name>>.

It comes down to competence. The Browns draft was disappointing. Perhaps a proven NFL talent evaluator could have done a better job. Perhaps having a proven OC and/or QB coach could help this offense.

Let's ignore all of that and draw lines in the sand, though. It's very productive.

Yes Hue Needs an OC ... JMHO

If I have the time I will scan and post Bill Walsh's breakdown of the roles and duties of the offensive staff.

But in the in between time here are some of the roles of the OC.

Nvrmd found it online here:

http://www.westcoastoffense.com/implementing%20game%20plan.htm

Might give those interested a look at the various roles of the different coaches on the offensive staff. And how much will fall on Hue's plate without an OC.

We hired Jackson because of his offensive expertise (which includes his playcalling).

I think his staff could be a little more robust, but Jackson is and should be the offensive coordinator.

You still get his offensive expertise and his playcalling without him being the offensive coordinator.
In fact I would argue that having an offensive coordinator allows Hue to fine focus his expertise, gameplanning and playcalling.

He's going to take on the roll of offensive coordinator no matter what. Hiring a person to that position won't change that.

On top of that, IIRC, when Hue was first hired and asked about it, didn't he say something to the effect that he preferred being much more hands on Game Day?

IMO unless or until he shows that he can't do both, I don't see hiring an OC as a necessity.

I agree. I said it some days ago. The problem is it is hard to find a "OC" who is going to run Hue's O and have Hue call plays.


In most cases the OC installs his O and calls the plays.


It is hard to make a name for yourself if you aren't able to do that. To me that makes you a senior O coach.


To me, it isn't the same.

I am beginning to wonder about Hue. Last year when Hue was talking about QB play he said the two things he sought were vision and accuracy. This year it is vision and arm talent.


To me, accuracy and arm talent atrn't the same thing.

Hue might not be the QB guru that some thought. If I was Sasi, Hue might still gave the biggest hammer on QB stuff, but mine just go a lot bigger and his a little smaller.

IF An OC is hired why do you think Hue would will still take on that role? What do you think the role of offensive coordinator entails?

Hue Jackson has a huge ego and having an "offensive coordinator" on staff would not change anything Jackson does.

IF An OC is hired why do you think Hue would will still take on that role?

What do you think the role of offensive coordinator entails?

You are typically reasonable. Not sure how you can agree w/cfrs's post.

Also, it ain't working. Horton got fired. His defense was ranked 30th in scoring and 31st in yards. Hue's offense was ranked 31st in scoring and 30th in yards.

Not sure how that equates to getting it done?

Also, his top assistant resigned and went to a collegiate program. If that doesn't tell you how bad things are in Cleveland, well..........no further comment.

This is Hue's offense, I think he would be the best one to call it. I think Hamilton was the defacto OC last year. He knows the offence and has taught it.

Will you clarify?

Are you talking about playcalling or being an OC? Or, are you confusing them?

Green Bay isn't bringing Tom Clements back

Tom freaking Clements.
I saw Tom Clements throw a Grey Cup-winning TD pass in 1976, when he played for the Ottawa rough riders. Tony Gabriel caught it.

He must be in his early 60s. Played for KC for awhile I think.

Peen, the term 'arm talent' seems a bit overly vague. I would agree that it probably means something different than accuracy. My guess is that Hue grew tired of not having any QB's willing to push the ball down the field (aside from maybe McCown, but he's not really an option at this point). I'm wondering if maybe he feels guys like Pryor and Coleman can help mitigate any QB accuracy issues and might be willing to go with more of a "gun slinger" type?

So, my interpretation of your position on the Horton firing is that I don't think you are upset specifically about Horton getting the boot as much as you are about the apparent lack of consistency in the standards by which the coaches are judged? Would that be a fair assessment?

Horton turns in a bottom dwelling defense and is let go, but Hue turns in a bottom dwelling offense and still has his seat. Consistency in standards would mean either they both stay or they both go.

I get that. I wouldn't say I necessarily disagree with that. I guess the only thing I can say to that is it's good to be the boss? It's not fair, but it is what it is. If I showed up drunk to work I'd be fired. A few years back we had a major show up drunk he got demoted.

Now in regards to Hue's performance... I guess it depends on how much tolerance Jimmy, the FO, and the "plan" have for the offense.

I do agree with what someone wrote above in that if the offense has another lackluster year, we'll be looking at a fulltime OC in Hue's 3rd year... assuming there is a 3rd year.

My gut feeling is that if Hue can't show any improvement with next year's offense, his whole ability to be a HC will be brought in to question.

Dang dude.. what I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall in Berea! Speculating about what goes on can be fun, but sometimes it would be nice to have validation that we know what the hell we're talking about lol

Probably so. I think we saw severl times that Hue looked frustrated because we didn't go deep. I guess what we couldn't see unless at the game was how many times did Pryor and or Coleman have a step on their guy and we didn't make the play and dumped if off short?

It really serves no purpose to have receivers who can press the deep routes but a QB who can't get it to them.

Could Tom Clements be interested? He appears to be leaving the Packers...

I don't know if Hue wants to bring in anyone in or not. But, even if he does, I think it would be hard to attract solid candidates like Clements because of how often the Browns fire coaches and Hue's obsession w/power. Not having much say and knowing that you will be the first scapegoat is not the most appealing situation in the world.

To me, accuracy and arm talent atrn't the same thing.

Maybe to Hue Accuracy is a variable in arm talent???

What confuses me a little bit Vers...its always The Browns Organization is a mess and any little thing you point out is PROOF FOR YOU.

Pep Hamilton leaving. Actually very key in this thread cause PEP was the OC and yes, he is leaving cause he was not given enough control of the offense not because our Team's Organization is at a chaos and just a mess.

Also confusing... No link...lol but I could have sworn you were very dissatisfied at the hire of Pep Hamilton in the first place.

Back to the thread - the only OC's we will get are on the cusp of a Maurice Carthon type who would be willing to take on the work of an OC in preparation but game day will not have the power of play calling.

Why I think Wilson will step up in a lot of that as well as Al Saunders...because of the nature of what we are talking about as function in the Offense day to day duties. Those two or more will be stepping up in that role, Saunders, Seamon and Wilson together becoming the OC by committee per say...and with Hue giving Williams full control of the DC he will also be there as well!

jmho

I think it's pretty clear we aren't hiring anyone.

Note...all our QBs will be going to Camp Tom House in the off season and between mini camp and Training Camp.

Actually in the Senior Bowl Interview (10 minutes) he mentions House almost as an entity of the team in getting our QBs ready for the season.

jmho

Both Super Bowl QBs (Ryan and Brady) work with House in the off-season.

In no way was I trying to state we have his camp Exclusively...But it is no secret that Hue and House have a close relationship and that House has a grasp on Hue's playbook in giving our QBs a little more one on one geared to our needs.

jmhrecollection

Not sure I used the word "mess," but the Brown's organization has been unstable for years. They are always firing someone. That isn't news. It isn't debatable. Neither is their atrocious record over the years.

Even a guy like me who "doesn't know football" can figure that one out.

Not sure how House has a grasp of our playbook?

What exactly does House teach in his football camps?

I know that Tom was a former major league pitcher and a pitching coach at the major league level for many years. I have one of his books.

When did he start with football? I am not saying he can't teach football mechanics because they are much easier than pitching mechanics. Just wondering how long he has been at it with football and who taught him? I know he a guru in kenitics, so throwing is throwing. Balance, hips, shoulders, arms,then trigger.



Might be a google search in the near future.

Interesting read on House.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d82...fl-quarterbacks

J/c

I am not sure why House was mentioned in relation to whether the Browns need an OC or not?

LOL..........I think I know why.

Pick up the book The QB by Feldman

A good description of House's philosophy and methods are described in detail.

I'm under the impression that practically every quarterback in the country is visiting him these days.

I think it's pretty clear there aren't many good ones out there.

Right now I look at McCarthy and O'Brien as two guys who call the plays as head coaches. Both of them relinquished those duties, and felt like they had to take them back in order to avoid a disaster. In both cases they came off looking like they were right. Why doesn't Bellichick run his own defense? He is clearly more capable than any defensive coordinator he has ever had. Heck, I recently watched video of Paul Brown asking Bill Walsh what plays he wanted to run in a crucial situation.

The post about bringing in a young guy and then training him to your philosophy makes sense. I suspect that is exactly what happened with Hue bringing in Hamilton. My question, based on my observations, is that Hamilton may be better inclined to coach at the college level. I have never thought that he is a very good coach. My opinion was that he rode Harbaugh's and Luck's coat strings into an NFL gig. His lack of success at the NFL level has been well-established. Maybe it's just his personality, his ability to relate to NFL players versus those at the college level. I don't know. I suspect he may be over-rated at both. I am encouraged by both Hamilton and Horton being gone.

Anyway you look at it, it comes down to us taking a long, hard, honest look at Hue.

As a head coach he was 8-8 with the Raiders. Although that was an improvement for them, he was let go.

He is a good offensive coordinator. Whether he is a great one, or would be considered in the top five in the NFL would probably be up for debate.

As a head coach, I can't help reflecting back to Diam's specific posts concerning mistakes he has made throughout this past season. Combine this with the one season he had in Oakland.

Is he really a quarterback guru? The Big Show had a direct hand in developing Montana, Favre, and Young. That is my idea of a Quarterback guru. The Wentz thing looks like something we all would prefer to pretend just didn't happen - - I wish it would just go away.

I do like Hue for all the qualities you guys consistently apply to him. But, when it comes to the Browns, I reject living in "pretend world".

I kind of answered my own question in the same post.

Like I said, I have a book by House. I have been to Tennessee Baseball Coaches Association clinics, where House was a guest speaker one year.

I was very familiar with him as a pitching coach for the last 25 years or so. I just didn't know he was doing football as well. I think House has a PhD in Kenitics. He studies throwing motions.

As I said earlier, there are far more teaching points in pitching a baseball than throwing a football, so it makes sense he would take that on.

In many ways, he is using the same teaching points. Balance, arm position, stride, release. You just don't have as many movements to tie together in football as you do in baseball.

Yeah I think I miss spoke about the play book. I think Hue and Tom have a close relationship and knows exactly what HUE wants out of his QBs just common sense.

From Hue Presser 6/7/2016:

On recommending that the QBs work with Tom House:
“He is one of the best at what he does – teaching rhythm and timing and making sure a guy’s body is in the proper throwing mechanics and position – that there is in the world. I have a really tremendous relationship with Tom, but it is another opportunity for the players to get better. How can you continue to get better? That means a guy is willing to sacrifice some of his time to go work at his skill. That says a lot to me. If there is anybody in the world I can have them be with because I can’t be with them, it would be Tom and Adam (Dedeaux). They do a great job.”

No problem my friend. I have no problem with our guys seeking coaching.

No problem, tab. We all misspeak at times.

Was hoping for some opinions on whether we should.

I get that most don't want to put themselves out there on the subject of Hue. Not yet.

My gut tells me that I would like Hue to work intently on his Head Coaching skills. I think we need a better one than we saw this year. A better one than the Raiders saw a few years back.

If there is a good Offensive Coordinator out there, he is probably holding his breath for a call from Dan Quinn.

So, where does that leave us?

I'm not feeling very comfortable about it. I think things are getting better. I disagree with some on the board. The direction we are headed could work. But, just like many decisions that have come at crucial times, I'm scratching my head.

Does Hue need an Offensive Coordinator? Should Hue be calling the plays? Is he talented enough as a Head Coach where these additional duties aren't that big of a deal?

I'm hoping for ol dawg to put himself out. Somebody like Clem, etc...

Hue Jackson has an enormous ego. I said this when we hired him. It does not surprise me that he wants to control everything about the offense. He basically tried to take over the entire Raiders organization when Al Davis died.



The rumor is that they are interested in Chip Kelly.

source?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/spor...m=.e5fee1d2b81d

http://www.thefalcoholic.com/2017/2/5/14...ia-eagles-49ers

http://www.oregonlive.com/nfl/index.ssf/2017/02/chip_kelly_a_legit_option_for.html

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...han-in-atlanta/

Just hire Bellichik's QB coach and make him the OC and bring Bellichik O system to Cleveland

that way we can win 10 games with a late rd QB...if Matt Cassell can win 10 games in that system any QB can.

Not going to happen. We hired Hue's system.


As long as Hue is head coach, we run his system. It's going to be pretty much impossible to hire a OC who is just going to step in and take over another persons system. You aren't a oc, you are a play caller....wait, you don't even get to call the plays. How's that going to work?

The reality is that Hue is probably not a head coach. He is a good coordinator. Much like Romeo and lots of others. As a coordinator, Romeo is very good. As a head coach, not so much.

Hue has said he will adapt his system to cater to the players he has to work with, so to think he is inflexible about the system is a bit unwarranted IMHO.

That was one of the reason he fired Horten because he was too inflexible and didn't teach the basics well enough.

while it might be cool for me...or even awesome to be able to say
"what do you do?"
me: "I call the offensive plays for the Browns."

prolly not so much for a real OC...

so unless Hue finds someone who almost mirrors his style of play calling and philosophy. prolly won't be a OC here next year either.

I think he needs one and should focus on HC duties whatever they may be.

so to be clear, I think Hue maybe taking on too much. I am to believe that HC duties and OC duties are two completely different things.

too me it's why work 80 hours a week when you should be working 40 hours a week?

kinda smacks of ego a bit...hope not. I want him here for the next ten years. let's just try it one time for kicks and giggles and see what happens.

my biggest hope right now is the HC, OC, and DC all stay here for the next decade, and make their systems work.

I don't know that it is too much. I think he wants to turn over the D. I guess it could be viewed as head coach of the D.

There are other coaches who call the plays during games.

Lets see how it works once we have a D that can get off the field and a O that can string together some long scoring drives.

I think Williams is basically gonna be the Defensive Head coach. Almost like Hue isn't even going to have any responsibility there

Are we implying that the problems and mistakes we saw this season were due to Hue having to step in and assume some responsibility for the defense?

If I am a Texans or a Packers fan, I'm wondering if we can actually win a Super Bowl without freeing up our Head Coach to focus on...

Head Coaching

Is McCarthy or O'Brien good enough?

Is Hue?

Not sure what you mean, my friend?

I think Hue is going to call plays and run his O. I think it would be hard to hire a coordinator under those parameters. Face it, running their own O and calling plays is how a O/C makes his name.

I don't have a real problem with that as long as Hue can make it work. Making it work is the only real responsibility of a head coach.

Williams made it plain in a interview that he may not be able to cut a player, that is Hue's job, but when it comes to D, he will determine who will play. He won't bend on that.


It could be a marriage that works.....or one that falls apart early.

I have a feeling that Hue has a good mind for offense, but doesn't really understand how to stop a offense. That is IMO why he wants a strong armed D coordinator and is willing to turn that side of the ball over.

agreed.

I think we have a legit shot to up the defense by a good shot.

focus on D in the draft and FA

then hit the offense again next year...just my thinking on it

I agree. The D is further away then is the O. The team has to make improvements on the field, and the quickest way to do that is to field a good D. I think the braintrust knows this. That's why we saw a D coordinator ride in to town.

If we can get a edge rusher who can pressure the QB, Collins and the others rushing the passer will become better. That in turn will make our cover guys better.

One of the comments by Williams that stuck with me was about corners and the ball going over their head in a hurry. He won't have that. Sure, guys will get beat. Just don't let it happen in the first 3 seconds. Give the line a chance to at least pressure the QB. Pressure leads to sacks and bad throws.

I think it is pretty clear that the corners have 1 responsibility...stick with their guy. They don't have any real run responsibility. That is the job of the line and the backers. Stick with your guy for 3 seconds. Don't even look run until the receiver is trying to block you 20 yards down field. If you get beat after 3 seconds, that's life in the big leagues.

Browns have hired former #Bills assistant David Lee as their QB coach

Cue the Tyrod Taylor comments in 3....2....1....

Josh Reed Retweeted Mary Kay Cabot
David Lee was with #Bills the past 2 seasons. Familiar with Tyrod Taylor a QB the Browns could have interest in if TT hits free agency

https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/829360307185258500

Tyrod Taylor is probably not the answer for our QB problem but he is better than anyone we have right now IMO. I don't have a problem with us getting him for 2017 and then drafting a QB and developing him for the future whomever that may be. Let them all compete for the job and back-up positions.

I'll try to not be so cryptic.

I brought in McCarthy and O'Brien because their fans are in a similar situation as us. They are Head Coaches who call offensive plays. In both cases, they gave up the play calling duties this year. I suspect to focus more on overseeing the entire team in game management situations. In both cases, they took the duties back.

We can speculate why they took the reins back. Mine is, they didn't have the right guy in place, or didn't prepare them well enough to handle calling the plays for a playoff caliber NFL team.

Why did they turn over play calling duties in the first place? Possibly because being an NFL Head Coach is more than enough responsibility on its own?

Calling plays requires a real good mind and years of development through experience. The variables you have to weigh every second can be overwhelming.

Lets combine that with being the Head Coach. I guess this thread was intended to get all of you guy's thoughts on Hue doing both. Clearly, he has the authority to declare himself both. I suspect Jimmy and the boys had to give him that when we signed him last year.

My take is, what happened this year proved to both McCarthy and O'Brien that they weren't good enough to do both. Not if the Super Bowl is the objective anyway. Nobody is that good. Not Paul Brown, not Bill Bellichick, not....

it appears that the majority of the board is OK with Hue doing both. That's just the way it is. Is he good enough? So far, 9-23.

When it comes to the Orange Helmet, I take things very serious -- Too seriously.

This is a pure football question, but one of speculation. Speculation causes the board to get nervous. You are asked to take a stand on something that AngerDawg may come back at you with years down the line.

So, what is my agenda? Hue should have a future playcaller in place and should be training him, developing him, and empowering him. He must be very bright and gifted. Ie not Pep Hamilton. Pep simply wasn't good enough. He proved it.

Hue has two full time jobs.

Is he good enough?

Kyle Shanahan plans to coordinate 49ers' offense

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...e-49ers-offense

He'll run out of gas and peter out, quit, or choke in the end. Like he always does.

I think RG3 has more upside than Taylor. And, I'm not that big a fan.

Let me ask you guys this,

I didn't subscribe to NFL ticket, I only saw one game this year.

In that game, we started off (not with a snap from center) but penalties. We weren't ready to play. Then we had bizarre timeouts for no apparent reason.

It was embarrassing to all of us.

When I ask, does Hue need an Offensive Coordinator, I guess I have an agenda.

Looked to me like the answer was... duh (ya think?)

I think we will look back and see Hue not bringing in a top notch offensive assistant (or two), in the 2017 offseason, was a mistake -- A big mistake.

Just throwin that out there.

And what would it hurt? Hue needs better clock and TO skills. He was fairly predictable and over reached when behind too often. Like going for 25 when we needed 10 to convert. Some of his play selection in the red zone got odd. Real premium of fooling the D. He may need a bit more judgment and game planning IMO. Can't see it setting us back, because with one win we are really about upside and improvement IMO.

You could add Tiger Woods to that list.

just to re-answer the question. No.

Al Saunders Sr. Offensive Assistant/Wide Receivers

David Lee Quarterbacks Coach

Kirby Wilson Running Backs/Run Game Coordinator

Bob Wylie Offensive Line
Lots of Veteran Coaching experience here. I don't see this NEED for an OC. Plenty of good veteran Coaches to get this team to Execute. Plenty of KNOWLEDGE in the booth talking to Hue from above. Hue will call the plays.

Also he seems to have full confidence in putting the D into Williams hand and Tabor on Special Teams. So that he can put most of his efforts into the O.

jmho

Yeah, agreed. And with a leader more-so with Williams, Hue can focus even lesser so on the defensive side of things.

Like Eo said, we have some good veteran coaches here on our staff.

Well aware of those names and that list.

That is the basis for my post.

We can disagree.

Absolutely.

There is a big difference between the Browns needing an OC and Hue not wanting to relinquish the responsibilities.

And yet many great NFL HC's which have had great success have both DC's and OC's. Sometimes it's okay to look at history and admit that maybe, just maybe, our HC may not be doing the best thing. We're all human, even Hue.

It would be best for us to establish that O until the right asst. evolves into a potential OC.

Hue is here 1 year - give him 4 or 5. To see who evolves.

Is Shanny making the same mistake in SF? or just Browns HC's

Its funny cause if we did what you an others are asking -
We are now having 5 new Offenses in 5 years...now there is a smart move...lol

So you promote young HC's not getting the help of an OC to help lighten their load. All righty then.

Well Pit........just like I predicted Horton will be the fall guy last year at this time.........this year I'm saying that Hue is going to get a lot of blame and there will be calls to fire him when reality sets in and the team doesn't win many games.

Not hiring an OC, poor clock management, being too cute, etc will all be valid reasons for canning him. LOL...watch and see.

Horton was fired because he couldn't get guys to tackle and Hue was disgusted by it and rightfully so. We got a major upgrade at DC so I am very happy about it.

I think Hue wants to establish a offensive system that is his and that an OC under him will have to learn to before he ever names one. In other words he has NO intention of letting the offense be a revolving door anymore.

Well, last year I was one of the very few who did not like the hiring of Horton and was being told how wrong I was. Kinda like this year and our discussions about Kessler and the secondary.

After the year played out, I was the one defending the guy.

Look.........here is why he was really fired. The talent on that side of the ball sucked. The offense had similar stats as the defense, but Hue wasn't going to be the one to go.

We'll see what happens next year when all these high expectations are met w/the reality that this team is still lacking enough talent and/or experience to field even an average team.

I'm okay with how Hue wants it..

It seems most OC's become HC's... If it doesn't work out..more than likely they become a OC again.

Seems the OC's job is to make sure the game planning stays on course and to see if it is working or not..

The HC mostly says yes or no to how the game plan is working.

Hue has both OC and HC experience ...now along with a good supporting class of assistants he may be able to improve on his weaknesses from last season.

There has been occasions where an OC or DC was considered a HC's puppet. Most people knew the HC was calling the plays..no new news.

Hue seems to get the guys riled up, so lets see what happens in his Sophomore year as the Browns HC.

I'm really hoping to see some good football this season.

What is the difference between a head coach and offensive and defensive coordinators in football?

A head coach manages the team. Some have more offensive mindsets, some have more defensive mindsets. They decide who should be drafted, what type of offensive and defensive schemes should be ran, and some coaches even call the plays in game, but that is getting to be more rare.

A coordinator is the implementer. It is their job to decide how many plays there should be, what formations to run, whether they should have the wide receiver block or fake like he is going out for a pass when they do a particular run play. On defense, they decide who should blitz, how many zones they should run, and things such as this.

Overall, the head coach is the overseer, and the final words on decisions, but the coordinators are the implementer's.


So can a HC do both and be successful ? And is this statement correct ?

If they are valid reasons, then what is the problem?

That said, unless Hue totally blows it, he gets half of a 3rd season before he gets canned. When I say half, it could be at the bye week which might come a few games before the actual half way point.

The problem is that too many posters are overrating the roster and when reality sets in, they need to blame someone for invalid reasons.

Who / Where are these mystery posters?

Just cause you say that is what I'm saying does not make it so.

Each case is different. But Walsh had his O, Hue has his I don't see the need for an OC when we have Veteran Asst. Coaches to put the time in for execution. Just what OC of merit would want to come here and run somebody elses O and not call plays???

How would another be able to call plays better than HUE with is Offense?

That is what I'm saying...not your made up schpeel.

I know I'm late to the party. BUT Horton deserves to be the fall guy. Just because some posters gang up on the guy does not mean ALL OF A SUDDEN Horton deserves to be spoken for. Horton is a washed up D coach and will be treated as such.

I have to say it's not like we haven't seen this movie before.

Let's look at the facts since Haslam took over. I predicted he was a marketing guy who had never had to build a real product. The fuel was provided and all he had to do was market around it. He said it himself that he was into marketing. There's a difference between building a product and marketing one.

Since then, we've had new uniforms, a better "fan experience" at the stadium. All marketing. Yet no real success on the field. Marketing looks for instant gratification. That's why we've seen a huge turnover in HC's and FO's.

One of two things are happening here. Either he has zero patience or he's terrible at hiring football people. Possibly both. Posters can take their pick. Or they can kick and scream like they often times do. And yes, to market your product, when things go wrong, you have to look for a fall guy. You have to change the perception no matter the impact of the move. It's salesmanship.

I hear what you're saying Pit, but if you recall Haslam's press conference from 1/3/16 (link) in which he said “I don’t think this is a team that is going to go from three wins to 13 wins in a year. I think this is probably a several-year rebuilding program. As long as we feel we are directionally correct and getting better, then we will stick with things. We will be patient. We do want to do this the right way. We are going to build through the draft. I know there are probably rolling eyes because that hasn’t worked so well, but if you look at the successful teams in the NFL, they have built through the draft. That is what we are going to do. We are not going to go out and spend a gazillion dollars in free agency. We are going to build through the draft because we are firmly convinced that is the right way to do it. The team we played today has been pretty good for a long time, and that is certainly how they have done it.”

Now you may think that's just him saying the right thing, but so far everything that has happened since that day has followed the outline laid out in that quote. So, either he was just saying what sounded right at the time, or he has learned some hard lessons and has truly bought into a path that he intends to see through.

You can joke all you want about seeing movies, but do you really think Horton deserved another year? Come on man, I can't believe some of you guys are calling this a "fall guy"
Dude was terrible

It doesn't matter what the "Posters" think. Most don't know.


I think our FO has a pretty good grip, and think Hue does too.


Hue is said to be a QB coach, and he doesn't shy away from that lable, so at some point he needs to wear it on his forehead.

Like I said, unless he does some really stupid things this year, he is going to get a pass. 2018 is the year when sitting at 1-2 wins 7-8 weeks in to the season just isn't going to cut it. He does have some say in this process. It's not like Sashi and company disregard his wishes and thoughts.


Face it. You may not like it, nor may I like it, but a FO get 2 coaches before the fingers begin to point at them, unless instead of drafting Myles Garrett with the first pick, they draft Channing Stribling with the first pick.

You coached, you should know. The first guy to go is the head coach. In cases where the head coach can fire the GM, the GM goes first. That happens sometimes when you have a Don Shula sitting in the HC position.

Just trying to temper things. Unrealistic expectations are not a good thing. Many of the same posters who are so positive every year turn on coaches when things don't meet their expectations.

The team was devoid of talent last year and Horton was sacrificed. They are lacking talent and experience this year and I am afraid many will turn on Hue........and one thing Haslam has shown, he does listen to the public.

We just disagree on Horton. Hue needs a strong DC because he is a OC who is also a HC.

I think he has a strong DC now. He doesn't have to think about the D.

If you remember correctly, I was one of only a few who did NOT like the Horton hire. All I'm saying is that the defense lacked talent and experience and NO ONE could have made that D good.

Yeah, you and I both questioned bringing him back after failing before.

I remember you didn't like him...Neither did I. It didn't work the first time.

It wasn't just the players. We had to call a TO on the first play of the game because we couldn't get lined up defensivly.

I think BOTH of you guys are correct. Hopefully the marketer has given way to the builder.

*Bump*

Again, it should be Hue's decision if he wants an OC and if that OC will call plays. If Dorsey has anything to do with forcing an OC on Hue, it shouldn't looked at as a good thing.

Agreed, Memphis.

j/c:

I think that we have a HC and a GM that respect each other and want to work together. We haven't had that type of working relationship between the FO and coaching staff in ages.

I think that is a good thing and I am excited about the team moving forward.

We can only hope and see...the guy has Ron Wolf backgrounds and football background so I'm pretty sure he knows how valuable it is for all to be on the same page. In the past I think every GM we had would say so...but after a short time was looking to take over.

jmho

Every GM/FO equiv. and HC has said the same thing the minute they began working together. Hue said the same stuff about Sashi. "lock step" was the term used. Pettine said the same thing about Farmer. Chud said the same thing about LomBanner, etc., etc. What unfolds later is far more important that the stuff said now.

I think we should all know that by now.

I'll take the "Wait and see" approach also. I only hear talk so far. We've heard it every regime change and it always sounded good.
Nothing here makes my ears perk up and put any real faith in their proclamations.