DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Does Hue Need an O Coordinator?

Tyrod Taylor is probably not the answer for our QB problem but he is better than anyone we have right now IMO. I don't have a problem with us getting him for 2017 and then drafting a QB and developing him for the future whomever that may be. Let them all compete for the job and back-up positions.

I'll try to not be so cryptic.

I brought in McCarthy and O'Brien because their fans are in a similar situation as us. They are Head Coaches who call offensive plays. In both cases, they gave up the play calling duties this year. I suspect to focus more on overseeing the entire team in game management situations. In both cases, they took the duties back.

We can speculate why they took the reins back. Mine is, they didn't have the right guy in place, or didn't prepare them well enough to handle calling the plays for a playoff caliber NFL team.

Why did they turn over play calling duties in the first place? Possibly because being an NFL Head Coach is more than enough responsibility on its own?

Calling plays requires a real good mind and years of development through experience. The variables you have to weigh every second can be overwhelming.

Lets combine that with being the Head Coach. I guess this thread was intended to get all of you guy's thoughts on Hue doing both. Clearly, he has the authority to declare himself both. I suspect Jimmy and the boys had to give him that when we signed him last year.

My take is, what happened this year proved to both McCarthy and O'Brien that they weren't good enough to do both. Not if the Super Bowl is the objective anyway. Nobody is that good. Not Paul Brown, not Bill Bellichick, not....

it appears that the majority of the board is OK with Hue doing both. That's just the way it is. Is he good enough? So far, 9-23.

When it comes to the Orange Helmet, I take things very serious -- Too seriously.

This is a pure football question, but one of speculation. Speculation causes the board to get nervous. You are asked to take a stand on something that AngerDawg may come back at you with years down the line.

So, what is my agenda? Hue should have a future playcaller in place and should be training him, developing him, and empowering him. He must be very bright and gifted. Ie not Pep Hamilton. Pep simply wasn't good enough. He proved it.

Hue has two full time jobs.

Is he good enough?

Kyle Shanahan plans to coordinate 49ers' offense

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...e-49ers-offense

He'll run out of gas and peter out, quit, or choke in the end. Like he always does.

I think RG3 has more upside than Taylor. And, I'm not that big a fan.

Let me ask you guys this,

I didn't subscribe to NFL ticket, I only saw one game this year.

In that game, we started off (not with a snap from center) but penalties. We weren't ready to play. Then we had bizarre timeouts for no apparent reason.

It was embarrassing to all of us.

When I ask, does Hue need an Offensive Coordinator, I guess I have an agenda.

Looked to me like the answer was... duh (ya think?)

I think we will look back and see Hue not bringing in a top notch offensive assistant (or two), in the 2017 offseason, was a mistake -- A big mistake.

Just throwin that out there.

And what would it hurt? Hue needs better clock and TO skills. He was fairly predictable and over reached when behind too often. Like going for 25 when we needed 10 to convert. Some of his play selection in the red zone got odd. Real premium of fooling the D. He may need a bit more judgment and game planning IMO. Can't see it setting us back, because with one win we are really about upside and improvement IMO.

You could add Tiger Woods to that list.

just to re-answer the question. No.

Yeah, agreed. And with a leader more-so with Williams, Hue can focus even lesser so on the defensive side of things.

Like Eo said, we have some good veteran coaches here on our staff.

Well aware of those names and that list.

That is the basis for my post.

We can disagree.

Absolutely.

There is a big difference between the Browns needing an OC and Hue not wanting to relinquish the responsibilities.

And yet many great NFL HC's which have had great success have both DC's and OC's. Sometimes it's okay to look at history and admit that maybe, just maybe, our HC may not be doing the best thing. We're all human, even Hue.

So you promote young HC's not getting the help of an OC to help lighten their load. All righty then.

Well Pit........just like I predicted Horton will be the fall guy last year at this time.........this year I'm saying that Hue is going to get a lot of blame and there will be calls to fire him when reality sets in and the team doesn't win many games.

Not hiring an OC, poor clock management, being too cute, etc will all be valid reasons for canning him. LOL...watch and see.

Horton was fired because he couldn't get guys to tackle and Hue was disgusted by it and rightfully so. We got a major upgrade at DC so I am very happy about it.

I think Hue wants to establish a offensive system that is his and that an OC under him will have to learn to before he ever names one. In other words he has NO intention of letting the offense be a revolving door anymore.

Well, last year I was one of the very few who did not like the hiring of Horton and was being told how wrong I was. Kinda like this year and our discussions about Kessler and the secondary.

After the year played out, I was the one defending the guy.

Look.........here is why he was really fired. The talent on that side of the ball sucked. The offense had similar stats as the defense, but Hue wasn't going to be the one to go.

We'll see what happens next year when all these high expectations are met w/the reality that this team is still lacking enough talent and/or experience to field even an average team.

I'm okay with how Hue wants it..

It seems most OC's become HC's... If it doesn't work out..more than likely they become a OC again.

Seems the OC's job is to make sure the game planning stays on course and to see if it is working or not..

The HC mostly says yes or no to how the game plan is working.

Hue has both OC and HC experience ...now along with a good supporting class of assistants he may be able to improve on his weaknesses from last season.

There has been occasions where an OC or DC was considered a HC's puppet. Most people knew the HC was calling the plays..no new news.

Hue seems to get the guys riled up, so lets see what happens in his Sophomore year as the Browns HC.

I'm really hoping to see some good football this season.

What is the difference between a head coach and offensive and defensive coordinators in football?

A head coach manages the team. Some have more offensive mindsets, some have more defensive mindsets. They decide who should be drafted, what type of offensive and defensive schemes should be ran, and some coaches even call the plays in game, but that is getting to be more rare.

A coordinator is the implementer. It is their job to decide how many plays there should be, what formations to run, whether they should have the wide receiver block or fake like he is going out for a pass when they do a particular run play. On defense, they decide who should blitz, how many zones they should run, and things such as this.

Overall, the head coach is the overseer, and the final words on decisions, but the coordinators are the implementer's.


So can a HC do both and be successful ? And is this statement correct ?

If they are valid reasons, then what is the problem?

That said, unless Hue totally blows it, he gets half of a 3rd season before he gets canned. When I say half, it could be at the bye week which might come a few games before the actual half way point.

The problem is that too many posters are overrating the roster and when reality sets in, they need to blame someone for invalid reasons.

Who / Where are these mystery posters?

I know I'm late to the party. BUT Horton deserves to be the fall guy. Just because some posters gang up on the guy does not mean ALL OF A SUDDEN Horton deserves to be spoken for. Horton is a washed up D coach and will be treated as such.

I have to say it's not like we haven't seen this movie before.

Let's look at the facts since Haslam took over. I predicted he was a marketing guy who had never had to build a real product. The fuel was provided and all he had to do was market around it. He said it himself that he was into marketing. There's a difference between building a product and marketing one.

Since then, we've had new uniforms, a better "fan experience" at the stadium. All marketing. Yet no real success on the field. Marketing looks for instant gratification. That's why we've seen a huge turnover in HC's and FO's.

One of two things are happening here. Either he has zero patience or he's terrible at hiring football people. Possibly both. Posters can take their pick. Or they can kick and scream like they often times do. And yes, to market your product, when things go wrong, you have to look for a fall guy. You have to change the perception no matter the impact of the move. It's salesmanship.

I hear what you're saying Pit, but if you recall Haslam's press conference from 1/3/16 (link) in which he said “I don’t think this is a team that is going to go from three wins to 13 wins in a year. I think this is probably a several-year rebuilding program. As long as we feel we are directionally correct and getting better, then we will stick with things. We will be patient. We do want to do this the right way. We are going to build through the draft. I know there are probably rolling eyes because that hasn’t worked so well, but if you look at the successful teams in the NFL, they have built through the draft. That is what we are going to do. We are not going to go out and spend a gazillion dollars in free agency. We are going to build through the draft because we are firmly convinced that is the right way to do it. The team we played today has been pretty good for a long time, and that is certainly how they have done it.”

Now you may think that's just him saying the right thing, but so far everything that has happened since that day has followed the outline laid out in that quote. So, either he was just saying what sounded right at the time, or he has learned some hard lessons and has truly bought into a path that he intends to see through.

You can joke all you want about seeing movies, but do you really think Horton deserved another year? Come on man, I can't believe some of you guys are calling this a "fall guy"
Dude was terrible

It doesn't matter what the "Posters" think. Most don't know.


I think our FO has a pretty good grip, and think Hue does too.


Hue is said to be a QB coach, and he doesn't shy away from that lable, so at some point he needs to wear it on his forehead.

Like I said, unless he does some really stupid things this year, he is going to get a pass. 2018 is the year when sitting at 1-2 wins 7-8 weeks in to the season just isn't going to cut it. He does have some say in this process. It's not like Sashi and company disregard his wishes and thoughts.


Face it. You may not like it, nor may I like it, but a FO get 2 coaches before the fingers begin to point at them, unless instead of drafting Myles Garrett with the first pick, they draft Channing Stribling with the first pick.

You coached, you should know. The first guy to go is the head coach. In cases where the head coach can fire the GM, the GM goes first. That happens sometimes when you have a Don Shula sitting in the HC position.

Just trying to temper things. Unrealistic expectations are not a good thing. Many of the same posters who are so positive every year turn on coaches when things don't meet their expectations.

The team was devoid of talent last year and Horton was sacrificed. They are lacking talent and experience this year and I am afraid many will turn on Hue........and one thing Haslam has shown, he does listen to the public.

We just disagree on Horton. Hue needs a strong DC because he is a OC who is also a HC.

I think he has a strong DC now. He doesn't have to think about the D.

If you remember correctly, I was one of only a few who did NOT like the Horton hire. All I'm saying is that the defense lacked talent and experience and NO ONE could have made that D good.

Yeah, you and I both questioned bringing him back after failing before.

I remember you didn't like him...Neither did I. It didn't work the first time.

It wasn't just the players. We had to call a TO on the first play of the game because we couldn't get lined up defensivly.

I think BOTH of you guys are correct. Hopefully the marketer has given way to the builder.

*Bump*

Again, it should be Hue's decision if he wants an OC and if that OC will call plays. If Dorsey has anything to do with forcing an OC on Hue, it shouldn't looked at as a good thing.

Agreed, Memphis.