Jackson ripped Williams for calling the way Ward tackles stupid. Seems like there is a lot of turmoil and tension between Jackson and his assistants. If the Browns win, it will be overlooked. If they start losing right out of the gate, then Jackson could be gone by week 5.

I would imagine that there is no more or no less than most other teams. We are all just dialed into to the Browns. I think Jackson is and should be safe this year, no matter what.

The season hasn't started yet, and already, some are finding reasons to dump Jackson.

Also, I didn't hear or read anything about Jackson ripping Williams for that. Did I miss it?

Overstate much?

I do think the team has to win for Jackson to keep his job. Beyond that obvious fact, no one knows.

You can tell that many haven't played football. They act like disputes between coaches is a novel thing.

But can you actually have a good message board without people throwing in the drama that rivals a reality show?

LOL.........drama increases the ratings.

This seems like a hardcore, in depth layer of dysfuncfion or disagreement when in reality, it probably was a two minute convo and moved onto the next topic.

Do you guys think other organizations don't have these issues either?

j/c:

Just more ado about nothing. Every profession with passionate people will have these disputes. I'd prefer it not be aired so publicly...but I fail to see any big deal here.

If Hue Jackson had a better record, then this would not be a problem. Things like this will continue to be a problem until Jackson’s record improves. If it doesn’t improve, significantly, he won’t be the head coach anymore.

Jackson saw a potential fire and put it out, that's all. You don't want players talking under their breath about crap like this in the locker room or on the field. Kill it and move on. Good move if you ask me.

I think some times people forget the very nature of football. It's a violent sport where the testosterone levels are off the charts. Many of the men who play the game are violent, combative, and highly competitive.

People are shocked when disputes break out among these volatile personalities. The media milks them for all they're worth because people soak that stuff up.

I can't tell you how many times there were physical altercations between coaches when I was coaching. One time, the OL coach and the DC got into it so bad that I thought we'd never separate them. The verbal arguments and explosions as a daily endeavor. It's no place for the timid.

If Hue went 0 - 16 with the Patriots' talent .. I would agree ... If he had gone 0 -16 even with the Bengal's talent .. I would agree .. BUT, Hue went 0 - 16 with the least talented QB and talent in the NFL, so I can not hold that against him.

So you're saying that what he said was just fine. It's only a problem, in your mind, because of who said it. Considering the source I expected no less.

Win games = genius coaching staff

Lose games = failures, fire them all.

There's really no in between in the NFL

just about, yep

No matter what?

That includes a lot. I totally disagree. No matter what includes anything.

Agreed...it's a lot like play-calling...if it works, you're a genius...if it doesn't work, you're a turd. It's almost impossible to know what really-was the problem without knowing the play-call and how it's been practiced.

I think the 'conflict' in the NFL coaching environment is a healthy thing as long as there is some degree of a lid on the explosions.

The NFL is not an accounting office...it's a crazy, aggressive place...if it was without conflict to some degree, I'd think something was wrong.

Good post.

Here is a personal perspective. I am ultra-competitive. I wasn't the biggest guy. Not even close. But, I worked my ass off. I try to win at every single thing I do.

So, I was well-equipped to deal w/all the big egos and bravado in the coaching room, but man............sometimes......it was like "are you guys going down that road again." Our OL coach was brutal. Fought everyone. He had guys chop blocking our own players in practice. We were all like.........WTF?

I mentioned this in another thread, but you don't go after dude's knees. And you are having them do it in practice? Are you kidding me.

He was the biggest ass. Most of us argued a lot and there were a few brief physical altercations, but they were quickly broken up and we allowed others to pull us away. That dude, though. He was an ass.

I don't think Jackson ripped him. Not as much as Williams ripped Ward. Personally, I like the fact (Hard Knocks has really shown this) that we have a coaching staff who isn't scared to disagree and let it be known. I always think walking on eggshells is the much more scary reality. I've seen nothing to suggest that relationships are frayed, much less in a state of turmoil.

Personally, I think the relationship between Williams and Jackson is much less a point of concern that between Jackson and Haley. They could get sick of each other. Williams and Jackson are each other's guys. I'm not worried about them at all. I feel like they'd happily spend the rest of their lives coaching together.

As for Jackson being fired in week five, I really hope not. If the team sucks again and it's clear Jackson isn't getting it done, fine, but wait until the end of the season. Nothing good comes from a mid-season firing, much less a week-five-or-sooner firing. That's the worst.

You commit to the staff for the season; you give them the season. Forcing dysfunction on the team is antithetical to what we want.

Besides, I'm okay if the Browns don't start hot. We start with the Steelers and then the Saints. Two Superbowl contenders. The Jets and Raiders follow, I think they're much more winnable, then the Ravens and Chargers - I wouldn't say Superbowl contenders, but both are legitimate playoff teams.

Frankly, 3-3 would be an epic start. After the bye week (week 11) we've got the Bungles (x2), Texans, Panthers, Broncos and Ravens. I think that period is where the Browns could really put together some wins. I think the Browns could legitimately snatch four of the final six games.

So even if the Browns start 2-8 or 3-7, I'm not hitting the panic stations. Besides, when a team is ready to turn the corner, I feel like that always happens later in the season as they gain experience and familiarity. Rare to see a young team start hot and then crash. More likely to see a bounce back that has you saying, "Imagine if they played like that all year. They could be a contender next year."

I can only hope we stay the course for at least the season.

FWIW - I heard Danny Kanell on his radio show Monday or Tuesday. He was saying that he expected the Browns to go 8-8. But then noted that he was more confident in that prediction before watching Hard Knocks. He followed it up with something like: But they have really good assistant coaches. He didn't go into details but It was not a ringing endorsement for Hue.

For the Hue defenders, This is just relaying information. This is Danny Kanell's perspective not mine. I have not watched Hard Knocks and don't think that I have even opened up the Hard Knocks thread.

For the Hue haters, this is not my opinion. Just sharing what Kanell said. I have not watched Hard Knocks and don't think that I have even opened up the Hard Knocks thread.

The rath done cometh.



I would have thought the opposite would take place after seeing Hard Knocks. Did Kannel provide any additional substance as to why he felt discouraged, or rather less confident in his 8-8 prediction, AFTER watching Hard Knocks?

How did you arrive at week five as a breaking point? I would like to know what that is based on. This is hot seat for Hue already?

Have we managed to do that yet? Hats off to Purp and Company.

We are better with less drama; it is a reliable metric and admirable goal to bear in mind.

But where is the fun in that? LOLetc.

I would like to see some additional substance as well - my opinion of Hue has changed drastically for the better after watching.

You should watch Hard Knocks. It's an awesome show. The team is really coming together.

I think Hue has been very impressive on the show. He has a great balance of holding guys accountable while also being fair. He does a great job of "team building."

You can find all the episodes on YouTube. Check them out and see for yourself.

I've seen things... Coaches fighting on the sidelines, games stopped so coaches from both sides could gang up on the players, hats ripped to shreds on the sidelines, visiting team coaches flipping the home team fans the bird... Nothing surprises me.

Lots of pressure between the losing going on and this documentary stuff.
I say we're/they're just fine. Winning would be an elixer!

The joys of testosterone are unmatched. Getting wound up and edgy feels good, Coaches "live" in that mode. Healthy and understandable. Rooms are full of alpha dogs. Not unexpected surprising, just temporary, self-inflicted insanity. But for a good cause.

Here's the problem with the 1-31 record continuing to color every single thing Hue says. We start the season off against the Steelers and Saints. Chalk says we should go 0-2, regardless of Hue's history. And yet, the media will be ALL OVER him if/when that happens. The only way media (and select fans) quiet down about Hue is if we beat Pittsburgh and finish the first quarter at 2-2 or better. Tall order.

I've heard people call opening day a must-win game before, but always thought it was ridiculous. That probably remains true this year, but I'm not quite as sure.

It does suck that we open w/such a tough schedule.

I think the record in the first 4 games is not nearly as important as how we perform and how close the games are. We could be 1-3 and hove no discussion of "Hue must go". Well, none besides the usual suspects in the media and in the forums.

Hey Memphis

He didn’t go into any detail while i had it on driving home from work. But it was clear that he saw something about the way Hue was runny things that discouraged him.

I was hoping one of you guys saw something and could enlighten me. Seems we dawgs got a different impression of Hue from hard knocks than kanell did.

One thing that comes to mind, and I don’t know if kanell hinted at this or if it’s my own original thought (post work my mind kinda shuts down for a couple hours ) but what about the tempo of th practices?

The producer of Hard Knocks has mentioned that the Browns have the best tempo he's ever seen in all of his years of working for Hard Knocks.

You really should watch the show.

Yes it's a violent, aggressive game and things get heated. This was not a one time incident that happened in the heat of the moment. Apparently Williams was talking to a reporter when he said the way Ward tackles was stupid. Jackson was mad that Williams said that to a reporter.

Yes disputes, arguments, and even fist fights between coaches happen. You settle those in house and not in the media.

Jackson in definitely on the hot seat and if the Browns don't show improvement he will be out.

Wow, that's great, the Browns have the best tempo. As for winning games, not so much.

I answered a direct question from Jester. Here it is:



Look, I'm tired of fighting w/you guys. I think Hue is doing a good job. It's amazing how much command he has of the players in meetings. You watch other teams or even previous Brown's coaches and almost all the players look disinterested, distracted, and/or bored. That isn't the case w/Hue. Everyone is sitting upright and listening. The guy is a great communicator and it's showing while watching the show.

We have something good going on and I hope the top brass allows this to play out.

A coach who has one win in two years.

New GM who wants to win now and feels the team should be better with the moves he made.

An owner who's patience is wearing thin and needs to start seeing some wins.

I stick by what I said. If the Browns start the season 0-5 Jackson will be out.

I've only seen one episode of hard knocks - but I agree 100% with this. He is a great communicator and motivator. I'm impressed.

That said and to the post above - he is still 1-31 with the Browns and if he does go 0-5 he could easily be gone. . . . but I don't see it. We might go 0-2 because of the first two teams we play - but I wouldn't be surprised to go 2-1 in the next 3 games. Jets are very beatable. Raiders traveling west is a tough game for them and I am not impressed with the Ravens.

We might be a trap team for the Saints. . . just thinking out loud.

We have one of the best OC in the league. We have one of the best DC in the league. There is no one we could hire and that is willing to come coach here that would ever be better. Flat out this is as good as it gets. PERIOD.

Hue is letting those guys do whatever they want but just doing his best to keep players motivated and healthy. From what I have seen he is doing this job with that great ability.

I think Hue with the coordinators will be a force to be reckoned with next season. I expect out defense to be flying this year and our brand new offense to be a bit sluggish just like the defense was last year. Does that mean Haley suddenly is a bad OC? No, it means we have players learning a new system and have not had enough reps in it that they are not playing instinctual yet.

I really hope that regardless of our record this year that we keep this coaching staff together for next season. I honestly don't have it in me to go through another coaching upheaval and years of waiting for something decent to be on the field.

KEEP thinking it, Dawg. Cause I DO TOO!

Why?

Saints go 1-0. Then get us. THEN game 1 of 2 vs. Division Rival Atlanta. That's the definition of a SET UP GAME!

Games 1 AND 2 are winnable.

We Damn near popped Pukesburg game 1 last year with KIZER. What's different? WR Washington and NO SHAZIER. GARRETT.

I LOVE our chances here.

Looksie. The Ferry has been called back to get those 18 just dropped off. They didn't even get to their cars!

Thats like walking out onto a balcony as opposed to a shaky tree limb .... ...

He may make it it to the bye if we start 0 - 5 ... but thats about as far as Hue’s ship would sail if we start 0 - 5 ....

1st two games are tough ... we will be dogs and rightfully so ... in years past winning either of them would have been a HUGE UPSET ... if we pull out one of these tow this year it will be a mild upset ...

Then in week 3 were playing a team with a qb thats making his 3rd start in the nfl ... even if we pull out a win in the first two weeks or not ,,, this is a MUST WIN game ... he’s going to be struggling mightily at this pint in his young career ... we have to win that game ...

But thats beside the point .. if we start 0 - 5 ... not sure if Hue gets fired on the spot ... but he’s gone at the bye IMO .. fair or not is irrelivent ...

But we’ll be 3 - 2 or 2 -3 after 5 ... so no worries ...

Had some spit flying arguements as OL coach vs OC/HC regarding blocking scheme on some plays. I don't like to argue, but he said he loved it and we hugged and made up.

It happens, I would be afraid if everything had the appearance of complete compliance cause for me tells me that staff is two faced ready to stab a guy in the back. Rather have them air it out.

From what I have read its basically, Good Cop-Bad Cop scenario with a rookie.

As long as Hue does not MICRO Manage everything. Hope he doesn't get that paranoia of losing his job.

We're good. O and D have their tiffs all the time!

jmho

j/c

I'm not putting much into an opinion on the coaches based on Hard Knocks...which has been quite entertaining. There's no way to get the full picture from a few hours of NFL-reality TV. I will say this:

I'm not impressed or discouraged by what I've seen of Hue simply because I can only assume that he is the same guy today that he's been since he got here. If he's truly different, I can see why players like him...so long as Hue likes the player. I think he tries too hard to be 'like-able'. Bosses just don't get to be that guy.

I think Williams says what he thinks he should say to be a tough guy...I don't find him to be very genuine. I think his bluster is filled with some 'pretend'.

I think Haley is what he appears to be...somewhat of a complete arse and/or a little nuts...but I see no 'fake' in him...for better or worse. He genuinely has no filter and doesn't care what he's talking about or who he's talking about. He is brutally honest...not saying he's always correct.

Trap games aren’t real.

Especially after we come out and punch the Steelers in the face.

Yes, playing a game in the ocean would be a very tall task indeed!

LOL

Opps !

I disagree. I think teams mentally overlook 'weak' opposition every year and lose games they'd win if they were preparing normally.

https://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress....own-game-myths/

(Side note: The person who wrote the above article is Kevin Meers. He now works for the Browns his title is "Director, Research and Strategy".)

Lmao. Dude I ain't even reading it.

TRUST ME. SET UP GAMES HAPPEN. And it has NOTHING to do with Vegas.

Maybe you understand LOOKING AHEAD or LETDOWN?

Not looking at the article is very easy. If you did it you would not see the words "point spread" or "Vegas."

Continue on in your little world.

MGH. I understand EXACTLY WHY WE FEEL NEW ORLEANS IS POTENTIALLY RIPE FOR A LOSS.

Good discussion.

The article does nothing to address trap games. I have to say if this guy is on the Browns he's not very impressive.

While a 0.500+ team playing a -0.500 might give you a base line. . . . where are the statistics and comparisons of - say - a 0.700 team playing a sub 0.3 team or a sub 0.25 team (the numbers don't need to add up to 1.0) ... the definition of a trap game is a dominant team (way better than .500) playing a weak team (way below .500) and the article doesn't even come close to sniffing anything to do with that. Just coz the article has "Harvard" in the strap line doesn't mean it is correct.

Thanks for reading the article, I was just representing one side. I don't think teams overlook teams, I think some teams just lose to crappy teams sometimes.

j/c

It seems to me the disconnect lies between possibility and probability and that when it happens the popular belief is that the reason for the loss is a "trap game". Which refuses to take into account who has home field advantage and injuries.

I have seen good teams, better on paper than an opponent, play down to that level with mistakes, penalties, and the like. I have also seen teams play over their head and scrape a win with a little luck over a better opponent. It has been known to happen. Not the mainstream, but it can.

The NFL prepares for games well. Injuries in game, flukes, bounces, messed up assignments can happen. Not sure I buy into trap games in the whole, but I surely do hope for them. We might get this one.

Go ahead. Make me cheer. This is the year for a win!

It has to be true if it is on the internet.

Btw----I am not saying that we are a trap game for New Orleans, but anyone who has ever played or coached the game knows that there are trap games.

I agree. Teams are supposed to look at one game at a time. It doesn't always work that way.

The week after playing us the Saints head on the road to play the Falcons. A big division rivalry game.

wrong thread

Whether or not we are a trap game in Week 2 depends almost entirely on how we show up Week 1.

If we come out of Week 1 with a 1-0 record, they will NOT be looking past us.

If we come out of it 0-1 and still looking like the bumbling fools that find new & creative ways to lose, then yeah, they will probably not look as deeply at us as they might otherwise.


All that being what it is, I don't think there is any way that we are a trap game for anyone in the first half of this season. Between Hard Knocks and all the hype and whatnot around this team, you can absolutely bet that other teams are scouting us and looking hard to try to figure out what to expect.

j/c...

Wasn't sure where else to put this....

Scott Petrak ct @ScottPetrak
#Browns Amos Jones on Hue Jackson's decision to go with Jabrill Peppers over Antonio Callaway as No. 1 punt returner: We're gonna do what the hell we're told. And there's a learning curve (for Callaway).

Tweet

That's a weird quote. I don't really even know what it means.

I'll help you. It means that:

--Hue Jackson is the head coach.

--Callaway isn't quite ready for that responsibility.

--You and the other haters have a new reason to bash Hue.

I'm not going to look, but it seems to me that he misplayed a punt or 2 in the preseason, and that probably played a part in him not being the PR.

I seem to have misplaced my thread. I think it means coaching probs — but maybe personnel getting coached is the issue. Under real fire, we looked lame more than once.

But I believe that good veteran coaches make good veteran adjustments when possible. This should be a strength. Remains to be seen yet.

Thursday's game is one that bothers me.

It's hard to make coaching adjustments when you haven't yet seen the team in action.

Now that the coaches have seen the team, they can make changes, and to work to put the players in their best positions. We do have veteran coordinators, and I believe that they will do so .... but, especially on offense, the sheer volume of new players make it a process that will be ongoing, as the team comes together, and they see who fits where and what, and who might not.

damn it Vers, stop saying things I agree with. Doesnt create enough drama.

I agree with that. The coaches have seen them all in controlled practices and limited vanilla situations up until last week. They have not seen all these combinations for use in a real game plan.

Football is going with strength. Football means adjustments. Winning soon matters to me. Hope we roll somebody.

I agree with you 100 percent.

Williams, Haley, and Hue are all good coaches with vast experience.

Williams and Haley have been head coaches which gives them a different perspective. They can relate to the unique pressure that a head coach faces and they should know how to work together. At the same time they are now able to focus on their specialty.

Hue has been a coordinator so he knows that frame of reference. Now as head coach he can oversee two experienced coordinators.

It is a unique coaching staff and I am hopeful that they win enough games that Haslam is patient.

Every year losing teams go chasing the "next great coach" from young bright coordinators.

I love experience and the Browns have that right now.

j/c

There were seven new HC hires this off season. Their combined record in week one was 0-7.

and none of them looked very good. The Lions were a trainwreck

Living so close to Nashville, I see a lot of Titans coverage. They squeaked into the playoffs last year with Mike Mularkey as their HC. For some reason, the Titans didn't think that was good enough for another season hoping to build on that.

Instead, they went with a never before HC in Mike Vrabel. While it's too early to say for sure, the sloppiness of the Titans in week one looks like Vrabel may be in over his head.

Sometimes people need to be careful what they wish for.

yeah Tennessee is one of those teams that just never does it for me. They're just "blah"

As always, I hope the Browns win.

Well I have another reason to Bash Hue,

because 10 minutes after I made that post, is when I heard the Browns are going to release Josh Gordon.

Ever since the Browns cut Travis Benjamin, and Andrew Hawkins.

The Browns have cut their number 1 WR from the previous year every single time, often the top 2 receivers if you include the tight ends.

How can any team do this and expect to improve the winning percentage.

A coaching staff, I'd expect, would be raising some stink as to why this kind of thing goes on,

and why if the players had to go, why were the players brought in in the first place.

It's time for the coaching staff to say "hold on a minute".

Somebody ought to.

If Taylor doesn't perform well today, I'd get the wide receivers together and start a strike\mutiny of not playing as a unit until Baker Mayfield starts.

I forget where I saw it but someone tweeted last week that their team sources said the receivers and team in general support Tyrod 100%.

Anyone trying to get a strike/mutiny started would be out of football in a second. The last thing this team needs is a locker room cancer trying to get a raw rookie thrown into the deep end.

Damn. Can we literally just let him develop for more than five minutes? Surely we, more than any other team in the entire history of the NFL, have to be sick of putting rookie quarterbacks in horrible situations and failing to let them develop their skill set before stepping on the field. How many rookies do we need to watch struggle before logic becomes a virtue?

Yeah, that's what this team needs, a friggin' player-led mutiny of "Start the rookie or we'll refuse to play." That'll go well.

...because that would clearly help things....

https://twitter.com/clevezirm/status/1041704407073796097

For people at work: That's a video of the Calloway end around

Playcalling is garbage and execution of playcalling is even worse. Why doesn't Fells block that DE? Why are we in a two TE offset formation from under center?

How is Duke Johnson an effective slot WR, but we're using other WRs to do sweeps?

valid points, good job bringing that clip up...looked very odd set up, then lackadaisical execution.

I was yelling at the TV for him to throw it away. Awareness of a rookie.

Well, it isn't like they were using them much, or even well for that matter for the most part. But, we see some production lately. How we seem to be using (or failing to use) these guys has confused me.

during the browns 19 game winless streak, 9 of those games were decided by 6 points or fewer.

Exactly what I was shouting. Way outside the tackle box, just toss it over the bench.

That's how I read it.. odds of running one back are very slim.. need a guy who you are at least comfortable is going to catch the ball and make the smart play..

Disputes between the coaches isn't an issue. They can be quite healthy, in fact.

Now when the assistant coaches are almost always right and the head coach is almost always wrong, that's a problem.

Let the record speak for itself.

It has been zero days since the Browns have cut a veteran player off their starters.

well looks to me hue was right.. gordon should have not started and should have been on limit snaps.. our oc made a ass of himselfe having him play so much

I don't see it that way. Heck, Hue could have cut him last year.

I think the difference this year is the additions of Landry and Callaway, and the emergence of Higgins.

All three of them had some really nice moments against the Saints, which bodes well for the coaches. The only concern now is injury. We're definitely a little thin.

i dont think so.. brown was in charge

Sashi was in charge of the roster and that was made public. But people never let facts get in the way when it comes to making up reasons to blame Hue.

Yep, It was also made public when Hue said in a press conference that it was his job to find us a QB and also said in press conference when Sashi was hired that the draft would be a team effort between the scouting dept. and the coaching staff and that Sashi would only step in when the two disagreed yet Sashi gets all the blame on passing up Wentz and the draft failures.

I'm not going to get into a peeing match with you. Yet I refuse to ignore the evidence. Hue is here. Sashi is gone. There are reasons for that.

PROBLEM Hue Jackson 1-32-1

Are you suggesting Haslam made a mistake?

Quite the opposite actually. But you already knew that.

Hue was the third head coach the Haslams hired, and their fourth head coach overall (Pat Shurmur was already here when the Haslams bought the team.)

I'm curious to know what you have seen to think that Hue Jackson is the one they actually got right. What I've seen is that he is inept and over his head. It's not like the Haslams are executing this grand strategy where everything they do turns out brilliantly and us simpletons can't understand it. No. Look at their record since they bought the team in 2012.

Look what happened at Pilot Flying J under Jimmy's glorious leadership.

Hue was supposed to be a QB whisperer, and told us to "trust him" on Cody Kessler. He fell in love with RG3. He made DeShone Kizer the starter and repeatedly yanked him and re-insterted him back into the starting lineup. Yet the very next year, he won't even consider allowing Baker Mayfield to play.. not even if he gave us the best chance to win. (I'm not so much advocating for Baker to play as I wonder what Hue's thought process is as there doesn't seem to be much consistency.)

We thought so highly of his offense that we brought in an actual offensive coordinator and put him fully in charge of, something I can't actually think of happening to a head coach whose expertise lies on the same side of the ball.

He's supposed to be the head guy, an executive of coaching of sorts. The problem is you have to have good ideas for this to even begin to make sense, but everything Hue touches falls apart. The not getting players into a rhythm, the moving Bitonio to LT and back, on and on it goes. We have a dominant defense and +6 turnover differential, by far the best in the league, and he still can't coach the team to a win.

Even a replacement level team-- that is a team full of street free agents signed for minimum salary-- would be overwhelmingly likely to outperform the Browns the last two seasons. I understand the Browns talent level in 2016-2017 wasn't what it needed to be but they were still far better than replacement level.

Hue got a great contract (I think it was 5-6 years, in the mold of what Kyle Shanahan got from SF) and the Haslams weren't ready to eat it after year 2. Had he gotten a typical 3 year, ~10 million dollar contract that many unproven coaches get, he'd have been fired no later than the Monday after the 2017 regular season ended.

I guess you aren't watching this year. I don't feel anyone thinks he's a "great coach". I think those with just a little common sense can see that he hasn't had a roster that could compete in the NFL until this year.

I think everyone deserves a fair shot and this year he has some talent to work with. I'm going to see what he can do with that talent and form my opinion based on that.

I want hue to have the whole year, actually.


But dang..........he didn't even know his kicker was supposedly injured?

He didn't know Josh was starting week 1, when he said over and over Josh wasn't starting week 1?


I mean - come on. Maybe people don't report to him like they should? I don't know.......

As others have said, my guess is this was the team doing Gonzalez a solid or, more likely, his representation putting an excuse out there so he can hopefully get another shot somewhere down the road. Hue Jackson knows his job is on the line this season, I don't think he would run knowingly run an injured kicker out there in make or break situations.

Ok, sure. I like where we're going with this. I'm a "show me" guy, I'm rooting for him (well I root for the Browns but you know what I mean), and there's no sense in making a coaching change now. So he gets the year.

I see a team with two capable quarterbacks, quite a few good linemen, three capable backs, and the best slot receiver in football. Several other offensive weapons with high upside, but low experience.

The defense is honestly pretty stacked. They've had excellent performances against two high powered offenses and are deep on the line and in the secondary. I think we're at 8 takeaways on the season.

This, to me, is a playoff team. Or at least it is a playoff team with good coaching. Look at the Bills last season or some fringe playoff team-- I don't see the talent there that I do here.

With that being said, I'm willing to give the guy a fair shot. However, that is relative to what the team is capable of and not the coach's extremely poor performance in previous years.

And here I thought those with common sense can see that we should have won a handful of games. Winning isn't easy, but not impossible, however if you continue to put yourself at a disadvantage it becomes extremely difficult.

Someone here keeps saying a losing culture is difficult to change... and yet we kept Hue (who has the worst 2 year stretch in the history of the NFL) which makes it even more difficult, right?

I'm not saying to fire him. Never really did. I would love for him to turn it around and become a winner. I am saying, however, that he's part of the problem, but everyone keeps wanting to give him a free pass because we presumably had poor talent.

Not saying we are going 0-15-1 this year, but we have a QB that took a team to the playoffs a year ago, a defense that is presumably much better than the one said quarterback had when he went to the playoffs, yet we are off to yet another winless start.

Again, I'm just saying... not arguing. We all know Sashi was fired because he wasn't a football guy. That's not hard to figure out.

Anyway, I'm pretty much selling the farm that we will win thursday, we have to. This is absolutely a must win for Hue, although the tie might help his cause because we will never be 0-3. We have to win, but if we don't... eh, nevermind, it's not Hue's fault. Just blame the talent, or the lack of cohesion, or the wind...

well, dang!!! to think they could have hired chs as our our coordinator and instead hired an inexperienced hillbilly like Haley. another bad hire by the browns!!! lol

Pit, I get that it sucks when these guys start w/their BS, but maybe we should just ignore them? Maybe make one comment, but to get in a back-and-forth w/them is what they want.

They would rather that Hue be fired than to see the team succeed. How do you try and reason w/people like that? You can't.

If the team did Gonzo a solid and Hue wasn't even in on it, that is more telling than anything.

I doubt the team did him a favour, nor should they have. it would not get him another job even if they did.

Sashi has been gone for a good while.


Start to focus on the head coach.



That is my opinion.

Start?

When Hue is fired I wonder if "these guys" will receive an apology from the Hue backers?

I also don't recall anyone saying they'd rather see Hue fired than win a game. I'm unsure why you constantly choose to make stuff up...

Why would they be owed an apology if Hue is fired? All they are saying is to see how it goes this year since there is more talent on the team.

To me he seemed ok. He wasn't in any apparent discomfort after he kicks, and he seemed to have plenty of length to his kicks, especially since that last one was over 50 yards. It just looked like the pressure got to him once he missed the first extra point.

Your comment seems to suggests that "these guys" are asking for Hue to be fired now. Not the case. And the Pro Hue guys in this thread are not saying give him a year, they're saying it's asinine for anyone to question a head coach with a 1-32-1 record. They don't believe Hue's coaching has cost us any wins.

This team is so upside down. Finally, the defense is starting to click and keep us in ball games even in all of its youth. The offense though couldnt find the end zone or uprights if the field was 10 yards long with poor execution and poor play calling. How long do you expect the defense to give their all if all their effort gets them at the end of the day is a loss. Guys arent going to play their guts out if all the team is doing is bowling for draft picks again. And if that isnt the reason then this has to be the most incompetent coaching staff and Gm in all of football. These players are tired of being losers. They know they are better than their record shows. And they are!

I don’t want Hue fired ... and i think he’s costs us games over the last two years .... i certainly have zero respect for the man after last years LEAKING and BACK STABBING ... but here’s the thing ... its 3 FOLD ...

1. He has a BRAND NEW JOB ... some of us understand the difference between OC/HC and HC ... HUGE DIFFERENCE ... HUGE ....

Responsibility wise ... there almost two entirely different jobs ....

How do u guys like U and Mr. Peen not see that ... Peen’s a smart man ... he either don’t get it or he’s just old, grumpy and impatient ... ... love ya Peen ...

2. In my world ... EVERYONE should get a FAIR SHAKE ... with the talent we had here the last two years ... ITS SIMPLY NOT FAIR TO BLAME THE HC .. we had by far the WORST ROSTER IN THE LEAGUE ... it wasn’t even close ... and amazingly enough the record reflected it ... IMAGINE THAT ... ...

Unless ya’all think he cost os 4 or 5 games over the last two years ... in witch case your not paying attention ...

3. Lets take a look at whose been succesful as HC/OC ... we’ll do a little deep dive ... and bring anyone u want into the discussion ... but BE FAIR and HONEST ... it’ll be hard cause IMO its gonna reveal sumptin WE SIMPLY DONT THINK ABOUT and the results on most won’t support your inevitable whataboutism .. (if u read this ... THANKS ROCKET ... ...)

IMO the greatest O mind of all time ... witch leads me to the FACT the greatest D mind in the history of the game is now an “OK” HC but he don’t call the DEFENSIVE PLAYS ...

Bill Walsh - Montana, Young
Norv Turner - Rivers in SD ... Shuler in Washington (got run out of there toot sweet)
Sean Payton - Drew Brees
Hue Jackson - Kessler and Kizer ...

Go ahead ... lets her some more ... name um ... you’ll find a few exceptions but a DEFINITE OVERWHELMING PATTERN WILL BE CLEARLY EVIDENT!!!

Lets look at a list of todays OC/HC’s ...

Peterson - Wentz ... kid would make a lot of playcallers look good
McVay - Goff ... nothing special IMO, slightly above average ... see Hue’s QB’s ..
McCarty - Favre, Rodgers .... when he lost Rodgers last year he got a whole lot worse at his job ..

Gase - Ryan Tanneyhill ... D’s fear that O ....
Gruden - Gannon, Johnson and now Carr ..
Dirk Koetter - Winston and Fitz (that won’t last much longer .. Fitz will turn into Fitz again ... although that receiving core with Evans, Jackson, Godwin and Brate and Howard may slow down his metamorphism back to who he is .. *L*)

Bill O’Brien - BUMS, Watson - when Watson played last year he was a GENIUS .. w/o Mr. Watson ... thanks for Denzel Bill ... WE APPRECIATE IT GENIUS ...

Shanny - we’ll see how he does ... my guess it hinges on JG ... 0 - 11 last year without ... 5 - 0 with ...

There u have it .. i see a pattern here ( i now know that has a lot to do with math ... thanks vers .. ... u still need to give me those “lessons” for my nephews ... i didnt forget and i wont let u .. ... ) that IMO is pretty conclusive as far as succesful HC/OC goes ...

Lets see who will be honest here and whose just gonna DIG IN ...

I don't fit into your little box .. i thought Hue cost us 2 maybe 3 games over the last two years ... not a fan of his off the field ...

YET ... i am 100% on board with giving Hue at least this entire year ...

Why u may ask .... simply because i believe he deserves a FAIR SHAKE at this ... its simply the RIGHT THING TO DO ...

This is a fair assessment. But I can see where this is going, so we will just have to agree to disagree.

I think it's weird to say "Hue may have cost us 2-3 wins but you're blind if you think it's more than that." This is obviously a comment from someone who knows all the answers.

I also don't agree that McCarty became a worse HC with Hundley.

And I have no problem giving hue a year. I just know it's highly unlikely he'll be here next year unless things change drastically. It's early, only 2 games in, and yet he's making the same silly mistakes he always has. Doesn't bode well for Hue.

What???? No Sid Gillman?? No Don Coryell??? No Paul Brown??? Here is an oddball to throw out there... What about Lindy Infante (great OC not so good HC...lol) he helped turn Ken Anderson, Bernie Kosar, and even Don Majkowski into household names for a short time...

I only pull these names up because you mentioned greatest O minds of all time...Honestly I don't know where Hue lies in that conversation...I just thought I would add to your list...LOL

I agree he has a completely new job. I agree he has cost us some games. I agree that his roster was bottom shelf and the record reflected it. For me, when deciding if he should be here or not...I always point to the fact that he has never lost the Lockeroom. And even in Game 16 of these seasons...they are still fighting. That speaks volumes to me. Once a coach loses the lockeroom...the team is done. I know a lot of people liked Mangini and his Bill Belicheck, I am the Emperor stance..(some didn't) Or many liked Butch Davis. But those are 2 prime examples of Coaches that lost the lockeroom. Hue hasn't. And for me...It tells me we haven't seen what can happen with a real roster.

What? ... I dont even know what that means ... well i know what the shot u took at me means ... *L* ... just not the rest .. i’m Tired .. I mary just be incoherent cause i dont understand your statement ... but thats irrelivent ... just wasted everyones time typing that ... *L* ...

OK ... how many game do u think he cost us and WHY ... BE SPECIFIC ... lets dive down this rabbit hole ...



Well the team sure SUCKED when Rodgers went down ... u must not know any packer fans ...



Really ... what silly mistakes are these? ... PLEASE ELABORATE ... another rabbit hole ... lets go down it ...

I’ll be waiting to hear about all these silly mistakes hes made this year ...

Cue the jeporday music ....

My good buddies Peen and Will are more than welcome to dive down these rabbit holes with us ...

I know your both shy so i thought I should extend the invite ... *LOL* ...

Maybe u being in Charleston isn’t as sweet as i thought it was ... *LOL* ... what was i thinking being glad to see u again ... ....

The sad part Pete ... it took me about 10 minutes to remember Sid Luckmans name ... then i couldnt remember who is qb’s were ... *L* ... thought about Fouts and have no excuse how Air Cordell slipped my mind when i thought about Fouts ... damm ... forgot all about are namesake and Walsh .. although ... Walsh found Ken Anderson and what a story that was on many levels ...

If your not familiar with that story let me know ... its a really good one on a bunch of levels ..



Man .. Marty thinking he knew more about O than Lindy ... WOW .... *L* ... matter of fact ... didnt Marty actually call plays the first year after he fired Lindy ... i think he did but i may be mis remembering ...

U hit the nail on the head with him .. what a great O mind most never even heard of much less give him the credit he earned ...

I know a lot of people liked Mangini and his Bill Belicheck, I am the Emperor stance..(some didn't) Or many liked Butch Davis. But those are 2 prime examples of Coaches that lost the lockeroom. Hue hasn't. And for me...It tells me we haven't seen what can happen with a real roster.
[/quote]

Could not agree more with the losing the roster statement ... 100% agree with it ... i said it a few times ... i am extremely impressed he has not lost the locker room ... like u pointed out ... that says a ton ... a TON ...

So glad your back bro ... hope u can stick around ...

Marty didn't fire Infante. The latter left to become the HC in Green Bay.

The memories not perfect ... thanks for the correction ...

I hate putting out bad info ...

You talkin' to me?

*L* ... no, your WSU or Willie ...

But please do join us if your so inclined ... its a real big rabbit hole ...

I’ll be in touch dawg ... we have other rabbit holes to venture down ... *L*

I am not looking for any apology. We are all expressing our opinions. We do it all the time. Sometimes we are right, sometimes not. Some people take things way to seriously.

My opinion is Hue will never get his record back to .500 as head coach of the Browns. That's going to take a whole lot of winning over the next 4-5 years.

As to the current staff...I think it is pretty solid. I might say that Amos might be a weak link as ST coach, but it is early.

I am not sure who we march out there on ST, but maybe a few more starter types need to be out there. If they already are, then it points more and more to Amos.

Interesting note, Tannehill is 1 of 3 QBs in the NFL that is 9-1 over their last 10 starts.

Carson Wentz and Case Keenum being the other two.

to me... this year is year one for the rebuild of a 3 year plan.

the first two years we had to strip it all the way down and remove the dust from the cabinets. Unfortunately, Hue just had to be "the guy" to put up with all of the pain. How can we honestly say that our team would have won 5-6 games in the last year? Yes, Hue kept them battling and close. we just didn't have the talent.

Another point... there is not one football player that I have seen who has left this team and has said anything about about Hue. When was the last time we have heard anything like that? JT constantly praises what a good coach he is.

This year, we started putting items back in the cabinet. We see a halfway decent football team. We see talent especially on defense. We have a solid FO....

The last piece that needs to happen is that the Browns need to win a game. that will break the streak, that will get the team's beliefs up. The confidence will start to grow and we will get a winning streak.

Sadly, I think most Browns fans now have Battered-Woman's Syndrome.

J/c I don't think Hue's a good HC, but I don't want him fired. I think the current setup can work. I'd rather not blow things up again, though Hue's done a decent bit of blowing things up while he's been here. He seems to have been more of a decision "spray and pray-er" than a decision maker. Let him stay on as the figurehead and motivator/"nice guy." For whatever reason, the players seem to like him. Williams and Haley have seen success as coordinators, it'd be nice to keep them around for a while, and I really can't see the other staying past the season if one gets bumped up as Hue's replacement. They kind of provide a counterbalance to Hue's manic optimism. And, Hue acts as the buffer between them.

Diam, the problem with the QB angle is that there were QBs there that he could have had. He didn't want Wentz at 2. The QB choice that we seem to be able to tie most directly to Hue is AJ McCarron. Maybe Dorsey's pick will work out. Sure Hue "bought in" on Baker, but it was pretty clear that was the way the new boss was heading. Personnel doesn't appear to be Hue's strong suit, and it probably wasn't Sashi's either-at least the picking actual players part. Every coach doesn't have to be BB, though.

Maybe too much worry about the personnel side was part of Hue's difficulty. Maybe now he can just focus on the coaching. Here's hoping it works out.

Which was a shame, because he and Bernie together were magic.

Pure nonsense. I want the team to succeed, which is why I wanted Hue to be fired after going 0-16. I had seen enough.

He was brought back, and while I disagreed with that decision (and still do), I will root for him to do well because I want the team to do well.

Don't want to do a back and forth? That's fine. I probably wouldn't either, if it meant having to repeatedly defend a coach who has one win and thirty-two losses.

Just out smarting ourselves. The power side run was actually set up perfect and as I stated in the Game day threads our outside running plays were working not talking about the rzzle dazzle over load the left and have Calloway basically Naked with a coulple of blockers. The power run to the left off tackle would have netted a lot of yards. Outsmarting ourselves.

You got to run those off tackle power runs with success and then when TEAMS OVER PLAY them do the end around trickery stuff.

jmho

If the previous FG kicker made the ones he didn't...Then I believe the discussion would be more like...

The coaching staff is doing a good job with ALL these NEW players.

It's early in the season..EVERYONE is learning about each other.

Some of the play calls were questionable but I think the game plans were on the right track.

Still would like to see the time management get more efficient.

I believe having Bitonio jump over to LT then back to LG may have put him in a funk... Suppose to win ThursdaY.. if the Browns get the win..then I would believe things are on track.

Only two games in...I kind of feel the staff is doing a good job. Game by game then we will have a better view of every ones performances.

WOW ... who’d of thunk of it ...

Ohh .. thats right ... Tanneyhill was hurt last year ... but still .. i would have never guessed ..

And the other two .. just as big a surprise ...

Thanks dawg ...

We need a love button ... i way more than like your post ...

Another viewpoint that i had never seen before ...

Sid Luckman was a QB...Sid Gillman was a coach (mostly with Rams and Chargers)...Al Davis would have loved Gillman as he insisted on stretching the field vertically...at the time...most passes were very short and mostly horizontal...In truth there is a reason Al Davis loved Gillman...He coached under him. As did Chuck Knoll, Chuck Knox, Dick Vermeil, George Allen, and even Don Coryell...

My memory is a little iffy as well...(damn meds...lol) But I am pretty sure you are right that Marty called the Offense the year after Infante left...and it was part of his downfall in Cleveland...

Walsh(no arguments on his greatness...lol) may have found Anderson but the only Super Bowl he played in was in Lindy's Offense...just saying. He had his best 2 years in the league under Lindy...like you said...he was an amazing O-mind that people barely know...

U know where the rabbit hole is ... come on in ... lets exchange views ... i’ve Stood away from this almost completely ... i’ve Dipped my toes in here and there ... well now i’ve Dove in head first ...

Lets rap ... and when the dust settles we’ll go have a beer and root for our dawgs ...

We got food and water in the rabbit hole .. its not quite as nice as the Isle ... but it rocks as far as rabbit holes go .. *L* ...

I'm not sure what else there is to exchange. What I wrote in this thread is how I feel. Check out that FiveThirtyEight piece I linked. They calculated that a purely replacement-level team would have a 0.1% chance of only winning one game in two seasons.

This is what some people have a hard time grasping. I understand the talent level wasn't that good those two years. This does not excuse going 1-31! There are a lot of bad teams in the league every single year. 1-31 is historically bad for a reason and Hue had a big part in that (were there not several games that we should have won, but choked away in mind-boggling fashion?)

Or take this post from earlier in the summer:



etc etc. I've said my piece though. I get it, the season is young and people are tired of hearing about Hue. I'll tell you what, if at any time Hue Jackson does not have a losing record-- either in his career or current record for the season (in the off-season, we will use the previous year's record), I won't rag on the guy. So all he has to do is win on Thursday and then maintain at least a .500 winning percentage and you won't hear me say anything bad about Hue. Is that fair?

The Browns are at home and facing the Jets, who went 5-11 last year and are starting the QB that we passed on in the draft.

Expect a win! Enough with the excuses, and "moral" victories. I want real victories!

Thinking about the Coaching Staff... The only real problem I see is Special Teams..

Where is Chris Tabor when you need him.... Bummer. (I know, he's in Chicago)

And yet more lies from the agenda guy.

I'm not a big Hue fan, have always been kind of wait and see on him. Last year I wanted him gone but understood why Haslam was keeping him. Things are moving in the right direction since Dorsey got here, so even though I'm sick of losing I think giving him at least the season is the right move for the team.

Firing him midseason will disrupt the players' focus on improving. And considering the difference in talent, maybe he deserves a chance to win with a real team. No excuses beyond this year. He needs to win a handful or go.

I can't remember the name of our current ST Coach...But I do remember I was not very happy with the hire...His special Teams have never rated very highly...which is probably why he was available...lol

Amos Jones, and I cannot understand why we hired him.

The OL coach is one I don't get. He sounded dumber than a box of rocks on hard knocks. But he has a ton of experience, so that counts for something.

....Yeah...the name doesn't hit me....LMAO I did not and do not understand his hire...I might have given the job to a promising position coach first...JMO

Actually, I like Bob Wylie....he is definitely one of those "don't judge a book by it's cover" kind of guys. Joe Thomas thinks highly of him...Hard Knocks was usually only showing him when the "walrus" was doing something funny. When I first saw him last year...I was like...who the heck is this guy...but the more I find out about him...the more I like him...

I mean "come on"....the guy drives a Maserati!!!!lol

I think it was in the final Hard Knocks, at the very end, where they had the hot girl sitting on his desk, and Wiley says something about his next hot girlfriend. Just classic.

Wylie is highly respected in the NFL for his OL coaching.

Our OL is playing really well Not their fault that Taylor runs himself into sacks. Seriously, text book blocks by our tackles and taylor jumps into the arms of the DT for no damn reason. Not their fault that the Saints put 9 up with single coverage the majority of the game to stop the run. WE get Baker in there and thks OL is gonna look a hell of a lot better as will our receivers and backs.

I am not a Hue fan but this past week, imho was his best coaching job since he was here. Team is playing hard and not making a lot of the mental mistakes I have seen in the past.

Hue lost a lot of close games in the past because of bad decisions, He has done everything possible to put us in perfect position to win. Its all a matter now of when is the rookie QB ready to take the reigns.

Yes i know Hue's job is to get the rookie ready. Well Ota Baker was one read and run. Camp he was 2 reads and fluster. I want him to play now but this staff is doing it the right way. Think about this shotgun spread QB never took a snap under center and He didnt bobble a snap in preseason. He was commanding the huddle. He was going through progressions. His pre and post snap were steadyily improving. albeit against vanilla defenses.

Anyway, This staff is doing their jobs and doing it well minus special teams. I expect a big jump in both coverage, blocking and kicking.

Your way smarter them me at this stuff .. honestly from what i read in th3e cess pool your way smarter than me period ... there was a bunch of smart people over there on both sides ... and I shouldn’t use the term cess pool when responding to u .. u stood out of it ... so thats not fair of me ..

Anyhow .. my question would be .. and i dont pretend to know that stuff even a little bit ...

What would the odds be of them only winning one game when u put in Kessler and 8 other QB’s in year 1 and then Kizer in year two ...

And I am by no means a fan of what Hue did the last two years ... but i won’t hold out against him ... IMO with that team and the talent level at qb ... he was in over his head ...

To me ... and i’m Nnot sure why folks on your side don’t see that he3 has an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT job this year ....

So for me .. he’s starts fresh ...




I don’t agree there was several ... u said there was nothing to talk about cause its all been said ... i have stood out of these debates for a bunch of reasons ... so i’mnot sure what has been said ...

Has anyone asked witch games they are ... have ya’all given specific games Hue blew or are we jut talking in generalities here ...



They were both HC’S and not HC/coordinators ... no?

Who were there QB’s .. do u remember? .. and we went 3 - 13 the year before Hue got here ... and we “TORE IT DOWN” ... WHAT THE HECK WAS THERE TO TEAR DOWN ... *L* ...

We only had a handful of good players the day Sashi walked in ... and then IMO he screwed up with Schwartz ... and we lost Mack, Gipson and Benji through no fault of Sashi’s IMO ...

Then we traded down 9 times in every round it seemed in year 1 ... *L* ...

So we lost almost all if not all of the very few decent to talented players we had and then traded down twice in the first round to make sure we didnt get an IMPACT PLAYER ...

This sounds like excuses ... its not ... its FACTS ... and seeing as how i almost never pay attention to what u guys have been chatting about i dont know if this has ever come up ...




What the don did to him was HORRIBLE ... what a douche he was ...

He had Couch at least ...



Fair ... naaaa ... the best deal i’ll Get cause i dont feel like negotiating right now ... *L* ...

Ya ... i’ll ake that deal ...

And record isn’t the be all end all for me ... lots of things go into a record ... we could end up 9 - 7 this year and i still could end up thinking hue did a crappy job ... and vice versa ... we could go 3 - 13 and i could think He did a good job ...

ballpeen, who really cares if he gets his overall record back to .500. All I care about is that our record for 2018-2022 average 10-12 wins per season. If that happens, ballpeen, will you really care about those first two years??

In two separate posts you wrote that you think Hue cost us 2 maybe 3 wins, in another post you wrote that if you think Hue cost us 4 or 5 wins you're not paying attention. I took that to mean you didn't think that he cost us 4 to 5 games. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

I don't keep track of the games Hue's fouled up, there's been a bunch... a few off the top of my head the Dolphins, Jets, the Lions, the Packers games were real.

The Packers went 4-3 with Rodgers then 3-6 with Hundley. Hundley is awful. In fact that got rid of him for Kizer. Mccarthy did a grand job getting 3 wins with Hundley... and if I recall the Packers-Browns game we were simply outcoached...again.

Honestly, I don't want Hue fired this year, but I think it's inevitable he is let go after this season. I'll probably have some knee jerk comments after a poor showing and want him fired... but we are better off if he coaches 16 games unless, as some have pointed out, the team gives up. I don't think better talent will make him a better head coach. I think he'll be the same. This has been my stance, I've not wavered... I still contend we will not win (in a generic sense) until we have better head coaching and better quarterback play.

I can't see how we can lose this one... I really don't...

No agenda... and no lies either... wrong person... carry on.

Carrots and lettuce?

Kenny Britt.

That's part of the problem. All the players love him because he's a "players' coach".



I love Joe Thomas (as we all do). He is very smart and very funny. He has been horrible with his predictions/evaluations/forecasting.

U never have to apologize to me dawg ... i dish it out and have felt the wrath many times ... comes with the territory ..

That is what i meant ... two of the games I think Hue is responsible for are the Fish in year 1 and the Pack in year two ...

FYI .. the pack didnt take Kizer over Huntley cause they think Kizer’s better today ... they did it cause they know what hundleys cieling is and they think they can develop Kizer ...

Lets focus on this year if u like since u can’t pinpoint the games he lost in years past ...

How do u think he’s done so far this year ... what has he done wrong ... specifically ...

How about this ... how about we start this week ... if u wanna rip Hue do it for what he did starting this week ... and we’ll keep track the rest of the year ...

What do u think? ... let me know ...

Whatever u want ... i’ll have whip bring it over on the ferry and Cap will have it delivered by a mermaid ... just not sure i want alcohol down there in case it gets ugly .. *L* ...

If you want carrots and lettuce, we can do that. It's all organic and free range here on the isle!

Not sure what your exact words were in your post as I missed it but I get your drift. Fact is there was at least 10 games in the two years that we had a chance going into the 4th qtr and the win. Of course we were not going to win them all but we pretty much lost them all except one. But it was a whatever could go wrong went wrong and we lost.

End of the day we were no where close to playoffs even if we won all 10. The only change it would have is in the DRAFT Order which in the past we would sabotage our draft pick. Mangini winning our last 4 games of the season to take us from the first pick to a later pick preventing us from getting a Franchise QB.

I know we did not lose on purpose what was most important was not 1 win or 5 wins in the two seasons. But the fact that Hue was able to keep the team together - he did not lose the team and they would fight hard to the last game. That is the important fact and testimony of Hue not the fact that he did not garnish another win or two within the season.

We did a complete rebuild I mean complete. Obtaining draft picks and building up a Cap Room war chest. The position of picking first in the draft in each round was the Bonus.

In the first round alone it got us a Game Changing defensive player and finally a Franchise QB prospect the most important piece of the puzzle.

That is why I'm judging Hue on this season and further. I hope for success and continuity cause I think we have to excellent Coordinators in place. I want to see this where all know the system and we become a dynasty. We do have to start winning.

I think once we do it will be the flood gates opening and we will not stop winning!

jmho we finally are build to win. We still got to go through the growing pains and finally get WINNING WAYS STARTED!

They are lies. almost every one of us has said this is the year Hue has to step up. We've said that Hue finally has the talent to compete. And almost all of us have stepped up ad said we believe that Hue has cost us a few wins. So yes, those are lies.