Lol. When does it get to the point where you have too many new guys? We still have a draft to go.

Yeah and it's not like a draft brings in too many new guys...

I'm hoping they use some of those picks (3rd, (2) 4ths, (2) 5ths) to try and leverage themselves back into the 2nd round. IMO, we don't need more bodies, but we can always use more earlier round quality players.

It's time to move up. That is Depos plan.

According to your article that had real insight about the Browns..........the analytics guys aren't a part of the draft.

Let's stick to the topic.

We've probably passed that point of 'enough'. With the new players/coaches/systems, it's going to take some time for everyone to settle in...

I never wrote a article about that...what are you talking about?

More quality bodies...

Kinda radical based on our past history...

Depodesta, chief strategy officer.
I don't understand how anyone can look at what the Browns have done the last 2, or 2 and a half years, and say they've been following any unchanging "plan",
if you see a plan, please explain.

Yesterday I was thinking, Browns, following the current plan since March of 2019.

No worries. How long can they keep this team together.

When yo have a solid base.... with strong leaders.... there's a lot of turn over on every team... but good teams have a good core that lasts for awhile.... if kitchens is the right coach I'm hoping we have our core for years to come.... truly this is year two of a rebuild...

Don't be shocked if, a year from now, we are wishing we hadn't fired Williams. Just saying.

Really?

Our defense was so-so last year. We were 30th in total defense last year. (25th against the pass and 28th against the pass) We were 21st in scoring defense. We were excellent at taking the ball away, and I do think that was a function of scheme, emphasis, and talent. This was the one area where Williams's defense did excel. We allowed 4.7 yards/rush, which was so-so .... although our 7.0 yards/pass attempt was near the best in the league.

Our pass rush was not effective, despite having some quality pieces. We got gashed way too often in the run and short passing game.

I hope for a big time step forward this year. There is a lot of room for improvement.

Please,
When we have a top 10 Offense and top 10 Defense. Until then, keep building, finding players and destroy everyone in our path!!

Just trying to provide balance.

I'm just saying stuff happens. I think we are a solid bet to win the North, though.

Our defense couldn't be much worse than it was last year couldmit? We were pathetic last year.... I liked Williams attitude but his dengue se sucked the last two years

Never?

It was less than 11 months ago.... think about this.... less than 11 months ago.. that hapless, loveable loser Cleveland Browns were officially 1-31... only had about 2 o3 players that people really considered any good and had just left everybody in shock by defying the odds by not taking Barkley or Darnold or Bradley Chubb in some combination. A lot of people were laughing and saying we would now suck for 5 more years...

Less than 11 months later and we are the favorite to win the North and one of the top favorites to get to the super bowl... and our primary concern is how can we keep all this talent in a few years when contracts come due...

Less than 11 months.

I think we are done with big moves, might be a couple more strategic depth signings... but let's get on with the draft.

I really enjoyed reading this.

Lending us a sense of perspective.

I agree. Maybe a few like yesterdays signing, but now it's about the draft.

I was disappointed the pick swap didn't happen with the Giants. I was wanting that 4th rounder. My thinking was to turn that in to a 3rd rounder.

With all the moves I am not sure how many picks we have. We gave up our 1st, so I guess it's 9?

We don't need to draft 9 players. Maybe turn those 9 picks in to 5-6 drafted players.

Dorsey is pretty darn good at finding middle round gems. Lets hope he keeps it up and plucks another on draft day.

I think we're about at the threshold now. I don't want to become the Redskins who just bring in talent and don't have any team concepts. We need to use FA to supplement what we've drafted IMO

Let's build a good, strong, young, core, that we can stitch pieces around as need be. Much like Pittsburgh and NE have been doing for years. Next man up.

When the core vets are solid and understand the system, it's easy to plug in a new guy and have them pick it up quickly, while the others cover for their learning curve.

D4L,

Thank you for putting words to something that I was feeling when the mayhem was going down.

I'm fine with Dorsey calling it a day on FA and looking towards the draft. I agree with others that the day of trade downs seems to be over, and we need to start trading up for specific pieces. With OBJ and then talk of Earl Thomas, I was starting to get a Wash Redskins feeling (spending on all the high-priced FA's and not having anything to show for it after).

Cleveland Browns Analytics department not a part of draft process

https://factoryofsadness.co/2018/03/26/cleveland-browns-analytics-nfl-draft-2018/

I don't think that Dorsey has any more bigtime "splash" coming this off-season .... though if there is an upper level guy left unsigned later into free agency, who he can sign at a reduced rate, then I could see him making that move. I definitely think that we're going to look for a CB or 2 .... but probably situational types, rather than starters.

"according to ESPN Cleveland’s Tony Grossi."

Well I understand that's how things are now a days. If you don't like the message just shoot the messenger.

Grossi is not a reliable source of any information. If he had said Paul DePodesta was making all the picks I would say the same thing.

I don't want to derail the thread so I'll send you a PM.

When is enough enough?

About when you start thinking of sabotaging future drafts, or putting yourself in salary cap hell, in order to win now.

I realize this is the start of our window, but at the same time, build something sustainable. Be more like the Patriots and less like the Raiders.

Dorsey has done a great job btw. Future drafts (meaning 2020 and beyond) are still intact, cap situation is still fine. As long as that remains the case, can you really have too many good players?

Yeah, the cap/future drafts are key. We're going to have to wisely replace some players while simultaneously maintaining the quality of roster we've built.

For example: in two years we may have to cut/trade Jarvis after we draft a WR next year (or whatever)

We haven't even played one season yet and your NEGATIVE outlook is how long can we keep them together?

I have posted this several times, but some keep ignoring it:




That is from Seth Wickersham, who had inside access to what the Browns were doing.

I knew there were other sources just wasn't sure where to find them. There are several other obvious factors to look at that people are ignoring but I won't get into that.

Is the link to this story nearly a year old?

Yes it is. So is the story Vers posted that shows that analytics had very little to do with the 2018 draft.

Old news.

Old news beats fake news.

Is it really old news since it's from the last draft we had? I mean what else do you gauge it on? Depo was in the draft room in 2016 and 2017. He wasn't in 2018.

Kizer vs Mayfield.

Depo wasn't in Kansas City when Dorsey built the Chiefs. Or did they secretly Skype a lot?

Which is how it should be. I'm all in favor of using analytics to the greatest extent possible but it's one part of the evaluation process, not a part of the selection process.. once the evaluation process is done and the boards are set, they are set, analytics is done.. go play golf, have a good time.

Do you really believe that in a situation where you have to assess hundreds of players in a short period of time, you do not use analytics?

The notion that an analytics department has nothing to do with the Draft, is aberrant to say the least. Its like saying that Marketing research department had nothing to do with a product launch....

Also amazing people continue with the same old arguments that the problem was the business and analytics people in the organization, when clearly the problem was with the football guys.

But they were the same people for a couple years there...

Hell, for a couple of years did we even have a football guy? Because since we actually got one things sure have turned around.

The line after the "nerds" reference is "he's since warmed up" and "limited influence" is different than no influence.

Why are we still trying to spin this?

Analytics are good when used appropriately. Good evaluation has to be inputted into the "equations," though. Hopefully we've found a good balance.

I don't expect the analytics guys to be good scouts. I do believe they can help the scouts be more methodical (or quantifiable/consistent) in their scouting.

I agree with spending some of these low rounders to pick up say second rounders. Mix trades, trade picks, but we have some solid folks here in this draft.

Until each and every one of us abandon all logic and reason and follow the puppet masters.

There is no use trying. They don't understand and have a vendetta because they supported Hue and feel he got a bad deal.

Hue got a new deal in Cincy. What's he doing now?

Let's just stop. We have lot's to root for. Dorsey is doing a great job, Depo is doing a great job. Let's just wash our hands clean....I have.

How about you and the other Sashi guys stop? You rip Hue all the time and those of us who supported Hue don't say a word. We just take it. The only guys talking about Hue are the guys who continually insult him. I don't talk about him. Other supporters don't talk about him, But, you and other Sashi lovers won't let it go!

You talk up Sashi and attack anyone who dares question him.

You make up stories [Yes, you were the one who brought up Depo in this thread] and then get offended when people post quotes from people who actually have inside information.

You guys then make things personal.

You stop.

I would love to stop, but you guys will not let it go and then get all insulted if someone dares question you w/actual proof.

Let it go and it will die.

LOL....that's choice.

Choice?

You started this w/this statement:



I replied w/actual an actual quote from an insider and somehow you, Grimm, and Dep act like I started it.

This is Dorsey's team. Not Depo's.


Btw--------------I love analytics. When I got my Math Major, Statistics was my biggest strength. I taught math for years. I introduced Data Analysis to our school district a long, long time ago. Goals based off of previous scores, data tracking, benchmarks, new goals, new plans to meet those goals, etc, etc.

I love analytics. They are used by every freaking team in the league. And the guy y'all hated...Joe Banner...was the guy who first made analytics a priority. He even hired Sashi Brown.

Analytics have a place in football and every other single business I can think of. However, Depo is not calling the shots. Dorsey is.

Let it go, peen. And I will, too.

Why did you cut out THE NEXT sentence that says he has since warmed up to analytics? Talk about misleading.

Dorsey is making the decisions and setting our direction as an organization, as it should be. But analytics, as you said, is part of every organization. That statement also just days "when he first got the job" so who knows how much it was used during the draft. Obviously less than the past.

I wasn't trying to be misleading. I was replying to peen's statement.

You, Grimm, and Dep have all ignored what he said and chose to chastise me. I didn't start this crap. I ignore a ton of this crap. However, I am not going to apologize for challenging untrue statements that are fueled by zero factual evidence and an agenda that is meant to deceive.

I will bow out of this thread now and y'all can go and on. I made my point. Ballpeen's statement was not accurate.

What if the analytics guys have taken some time to listen to the football guy.

What if the football guys have taken some time to listen to the analytics guy.

What if there is a common area?

I suggest that they can coexist....

Talk about just making up BS.

j/c


I'd rather the Anti-Sashi crowd stop. Without Sashi, there is no John Dorsey in Cleveland... so spin spin spin spin spin spin....

I thought that was because Hue sucked?

Pull your pants up, your agenda is starting to show.

Well I think you need to make up your mind. Since Sashi did such a great job it must have been the sucktitude of Hue that brought Dorsey here.

You're the one here trying to give all the credit of the sucktitude to Sashi after saying how great Sasi was for so long. Make up your mind would ya?

Wow. Peen was right. "You guys" don't get it.

Oh we get it. Tearing down a team doesn't take a genius. Trading back in the draft and cutting cap space is easy. Nobody deserves a statue for that.

Then to top all of that off, all anybody even said in favor of Hue was that he should get a shot with some talent on the roster. He did and he failed miserably at it. He needed to go.

You see, one side admits what a failure Hue was. The other side thinks a demolition guy is some kind of hero. There's a difference.

Maybe it's time you guys man up and admit Sashi sucked too.

people still talking about sashi lol....


when is enough enough?

well all Expansion teams have high turnover the first 3 or 4 years. just what happens when you start from nothing....

You mean like last year and this year?

yea. one or two more year of high turnover... the way it is....

People say tearing down a team the right way is easy, then I look at Gettleman and the Giants...

Gettleman is having a hard time making up his mind that tearing down the team is what he wants to do. Who could blame him? GM's tearing down the team face moronic fans with pitchforks and even more moronic owners that listen to moronic fans wanting to fire GM's that tear down teams.

No. You don't get it.

Because as Depo warned, it is a hard road. All with the plan was good until Hue started to get nervous.

As I have said many times, I am very glad Dorsey is here making our picks. My only beef is with the few people who somehow feel that Depo is a useless fool.

Like I said, a stupid thread in a football forum. It should be moved to the smack forum. No football is being talked here.

I started the thread, I don't care if it gets moved. The intent was to see where people felt the line should be drawn with adding new bodies to the team.

I'd say after a three-peat as Super Bowl champs we've done enough, but I don't think that was the question.

As far as free agents this year, I'd like to bring in another DB (probably safety).