Wow.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...ns-coach-alleges-racism-hiring-practices

This is a giant story.

Yes it is.

Or it is a non starter being made a story.

There is a lot to unpact.

Serious implications.

Ross the owner offering $100k a game to tank. Ouch

Flores is taking some big shots. This will make the Kaepernick story small by comparison.

The $100k incentive to tank games will be quite serious if provable, considering all the gambling money on the line.

Charles Robinson
@CharlesRobinson
This Brian Flores lawsuit against the #NFL is going to resonate throughout sports and be a significant moment in the history of the league. I’ve spoken to two other coaches who believe they have the receipts to be a part of the class. This could be a tsunami before it’s all over.

https://twitter.com/CharlesRobinson/status/1488641698435584000

I'll admit, I was a bit surprised when Brian Flores was fired. - He went 24-25 with a substandard roster. I would have given the guy a couple more seasons. But unfortunately, I don't own a pro football team. - The men who own these teams are highly successful and got to their status in life by employing and empowering the best available candidates. Jim Harbaugh, based on his record in San Francisco is much more qualified than Brian Flores. Brian Daboll is unproven but given the fact that Brian Flores went .500 with a similar roster, I can see why the Giants chose Daboll.

I think some people claim racism when it's convenient for them. - Brian Flores didn't feel that the NFL was racist when the Dolphins fired Adam Gase and hired him. But, now that he's being told "no" - as in "no Mr. Flores we don't want you for this position due to your .500 record as the Dolphins head coach." He's throwing a tantrum. -- I don't see how this is racist. If anything what this whole stupid story tells us is that Brian Flores has a sense of entitlement - he thinks he should have a hc position because of the color of his skin. - And he's wrong.

Bill Belichick got fired once and had to go back to being a coordinator for a few years, Eric Mangini got fired a couple times and couldn't find a new gig, Mike Pettine got fired and had to go back to being a coordinator, and on and on.... Childish of Brian Flores to act this way. I'm hoping he drops this stupid lawsuit (that will go nowhere) goes back to being a coordinator, and catches on with another team as a head coach in a couple years.

However, to touch on the post above. If the whole "100,000 to tank" has any merit, then yeah, that's a huge deal. - But either way, Brian Flores puts himself in a bad light -- I mean, did he not speak up about this earlier because he thought he was getting another hc job? Or is the entire accusation untrue and he's making stuff up because he's got an axe to grind for not getting another hc job? Either way, we'll find out. -- I mean, whether the accusation is true or untrue, the NFL will have to speak on it.

J\C

I don't know if the New York job was not given to him because of racism or not. I do know that the hiring system in the NFL is broken. I want to believe it has more to do with the buddy system than race. The new GM of the Giants has history with Daboll.

Reading Twitter (more specifically NFL reporters and commentators) A lot of people are weighing in without all the facts on the table. This is going to get ugly. I don't trust the sports media to be fair to the NFL. I've seen how they have reported in the past. The thing is I don't care if they are fair. The NFL has had a long time to fix their hiring practices and haven't.

there is a lot to unpack here.

If Flores did intentionally lose games ... yeah. not good. I really hope Ross didn't offer it and Flores didn't intentionally lose games.

As far as race goes, I would be greatly shocked if he was really fired from Miami because he was black. Especially since when he was hired, everyone knew he was black and retained employment for a significant amount of time. As far as the other 2 teams go, I am curious to see what comes out.

Racial injustices are real and it is something that needs to be fixed. This really feels like Flores is going "Antonio Brown mode" because he was fired.

Question - I thought teams were transparent with how much they pay their coaches, GM's etc?

I've always wondered what the big ruckus is about the need to hire more black NFL coaches, the argument being if the majority of the players are black, then more coaches should be black. My question is: is the implication that black players will respond better to black head coaches? I don't get it but just been curious

From the initial article. Holy crap......BB's too smart to make a mistake like that. He'll stop at nothing to screw over a division rival, lol.

j/c…https://nypost.com/2021/03/30/secre...test-attempt-to-escape-browns-blame/amp/

Hue Jackson’s recent tweets implying he, too, may have been paid to tank by Haslam are pretty wild.

I remember when he went on WKNR last year and was talking about a secret contract extension.

I can’t even imagine if it comes out that coaches were being paid to tank. Gasoline on the fire would be hire a minority coach, have them tank and be the fall guy and replace with white coach.

Above is the article on the “secret contract” from Hue’s appearance on WKNR nearly a year ago:

I think we all know, or at least suspect that teams tank for the draft pick. I don't think they do it for gambling or anything like that. It was pretty well known that the NBA went to a lottery system for a reason, to help prevent tanking games.

It may work out the NFL does the same thing.

For me I have no idea about being paid for losing etc. etc. I think I can say that rosters have been downgraded to ensure teams lose in fact it happened here at least twice and once it was glaring it was so bad.

But Flores is IMO a great coach to take a roster like he had to the brink of a playoff appearance is herculean at a minimum I didn't think in 2020 they would win a game they were that bad. Fans here will of course disagree with me they always do but that is why I loved Mangini as a coach we had a 2–3-win team and he managed to win games he was an overachiever as a coach, and they are rare look no further then Ski he roundly underachieved with the talent he had.

I will of course continue to support Ski as he finds his way but a repeat of what I saw this season and I will be calling for the team to hire Flores, but then again, I like winners and I could care less what color they are or how they are portrayed by the clueless press. Yup, Mary Kay I am looking at you.

Of course teams set themselves up in a less than favorable opportunity to win, a lot of times that involves playing a bunch of young guys and getting rid of vets. You’re just not going to win in the NBA and NFL with a bunch of first and second year players playing.

However, if teams were literally paying coaches to lose intentionally, that would be a major scandal.

I have no clue about coaches being paid to lose, but I have a very hard time believing anything Hue says considering almost everything he has commented on has been BS. I'm curious to see this unfold. Further, for the coaches claiming this issue, and they accepted the money, are they not complicit in the scheme? (note: I haven't read all the articles so maybe coaches said they didn't take the money).

If that happened, I wonder if Goodell would have the legal power and/or the cajones to force the owner to sell?

Not going to argue that none of his accusations are true, but wasn't there a documented rift between him, Ross and Tua? So he ends up being the odd man out. That's not racism, that's just removing the problem piece in the eyes of those that make the decision.

Daboll being hired over Flores. Daboll and Shoen worked together in Buffalo, so there was already a connection, I doubt it had anything to do with race.

I think Flores is a very good coach, and was interested to see where he would end up, and how they would do, but now I'm guessing he will never see another NFL job.

Goodell, can propose firing any owner, for wrongful conduct and would take that complaint to the league's Executive Committee.

He would need 3/4 approval of the committee to terminate the owner.

I don't think Godell has the legal power over a coach. But, I'm sure he can make it feel that way to one of the club teams.

I don't think Godell has the legal power over a coach. But, I'm sure he can make it feel that way to one of the club teams / owners.

Godell is nothing more than a mouth organ for the owners. They pay his salary.

Flores is a damn good coach. Frankly, I believe everything he said.

He doesn't have a prayer. And more than likely he will never be a head coach again in the NFL.

I give him credit for his courage.

He is going against big money and bigger power.

His actions though will shed light on reality.

I doubt the lawsuit goes anywhere. His allegations regarding the interviews with Denver and NY is something we've been talking about practically since I joined the board. The Rooney rule is a joke.

I doubt we hear anything, but what I'm most interested in is the stuff he's saying about the Miami owner (primarily incentivizing losing, and tampering with a QB). I would imagine that got a bunch of attention from the few people that can do anything about it (the other owners).

In the lawsuit, Flores alleges that Stephen Ross offered him $100k per loss during a lunch meeting that Ross held on his yacht with Flores. Flores got up and left the meeting.

im just here for the messiness of it all. great stuff to fill in the time between the SB

As you age it is natural to become cynical.

Over time you get beat down with hypocrisy.

The NFL is full of it.

Robert Kraft. Daniel Synder. Haslam.

These guys were caught. How fast it all disappeared.

This guy Ross. Of course he was tampering. Of course he offered to pay Flores to tank. I have no doubt.

I hope the yacht was docked, but its a funny visual to imagine Flores hearing Ross's proposal and jumping off ship to swim ashore.

This is just the beginning of this story.

The **** hit the fan.

All kinds of stuff will come out of the woodwork.

This is a class action suit. Daylight is going to shine.

"My sincere hope is that by standing up against systemic racism in the NFL, others will join me to ensure that positive change is made for generations to come."


I'm just trying to figure out which part of this is "racist".

Is it all racist just because he's black?

Is the Rooney Rule, a rule (as dumb as it is) that's meant to make sure minorities get interviewed, racist just because the Giants didn't hire him?

Does "drinking heavily the night before" make someone racist?


I'm confused.

Yes, including a certain ex-Browns' coach, apparently. What a surprise, the Browns were tanking when they went 1-31.

I'm *assuming* that "systematic racism" in the NFL is demonstrated by the number of minority HC's in the NFL.

I'm *assuming* systematic racism is acknowledged by the NFL which is why they have the Rooney Rule in the first place?

The Rooney Rule is hot garbage and does not fix the problem - but doesn't it's existence give a nod to an ongoing issue that needs to be addressed?

I certainly give credence to what Flores is saying. There is a reason for that.

I think we all know that in NFL owners circles this will automatically remove him from consideration for many future NFL jobs. They will label him as not being trustworthy. He's taking a huge hit in the future of his career. Lawsuits do pay if you win but at his age, 41, he has at least a 20 year window left in his NFL career. That means he is a man willing to put a lot on the line for his principals. Anyone willing to take such a huge risk and personal hit to his own career, it just doesn't make sense to me he would do that by making things up.

Having Hubris Jackson as your head coach is the epitome of tanking.

This, IMO, is the interesting part of the racism portion of the story. The Rooney Rule's complete ineffectiveness has got to be the worst-kept secret in all pro sports. We've all known it's a joke for a long long time now.


Also, I disagree with bone. I doubt the ish will hit the fan. If the NFL was able to bury the WFT investigation, it will bury this as well.

I find it funny if it's true that Hue said he was told to tank when not that long ago he tried to tell everyone that he knew nothing about the team being in rebuild mode while he was the head coach.

j/c

I have no opinion at this time on the validity, or lack thereof, about the accusations by Flores, and Jackson.

My question would be, "why did they accept the money?"

Next question would be, IF they accepted the money, did they claim it on income taxes? If so, this would be easy to prove I would think. The salaries are fairly well know, and adding an extra say $800,000 that they paid taxes on would be a dead giveaway something was going on.

If they DIDN'T claim the money as income, they each could be in trouble for tax evasion, as well as the teams.

More will come out in the coming weeks, months, etc.

One thing is for sure. He (Flores) will never get another job in the NFL.

I hope he saved his money well.

And that was my point to some degree. He might get another coaching job in the NFL but it's lessened his odds by a lot.

There's no logical reason a man with such a bright future coaching in the NFL would risk his entire career just to fabricate such a story.

In a statement, a Browns spokesperson denied the allegations (by Hue Jackson) Wednesday afternoon.

"The recent comments by Hue Jackson and his representatives relating to his tenure as our head coach are completely fabricated," the spokesperson said. "Any accusation that any member of our organization was incentivized to deliberately lose games is categorically false."

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story...flores-black-coaches-lawsuit/9281046002/

j/c...

This is from the Executive Director of the Hue Jackson Foundation.

Stephen Ross, Jimmy Haslam could be prosecuted for violating the Sports Bribery

ActPosted by Mike Florio 
February 2, 2022, 2:47 PM EST
link



As we continue to get our arms around the far-reaching implications of the landmark lawsuit filed against the NFL and multiple teams on Tuesday by former Dolphins coach Brian Flores, it’s possible that some wrists will end up encased in handcuffs.

While appearing on Dan Abrams’s SiriusXM POTUS 124 show earlier in the hour, we discussed the possibility of a prosecutor convening a grand jury on the specific question of whether Dolphins owner Stephen Ross or Browns owner Jimmy Haslam bribed coaches and/or others to deliberately lose football games. Flores has accused Ross of offering $100,000 per loss; former Browns coach Hue Jackson has suggested that Haslam did something similar.

The Sports Bribery Act criminalizes such conduct. Under 18 U.S.C. § 124, “Whoever carries into effect, attempts to carry into effect, or conspires with any other person to carry into effect any scheme in commence to influence, in any way, by bribery any sporting contest, with knowledge of the purpose of such scheme is to influence by bribery that contests, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.”

Based on the language of the statute, it doesn’t matter whether the offer is accepted. Liability arises if the person “carries into effect” the scheme or “attempts to carry into effect” the bribe. The mere offer of $100,000 to Flores, without more, would constitute a violation by Ross.

As to the Browns, acceptance of the inducement and acting on it would potentially extend criminal responsibility beyond Haslam. Jackson, if he acted on those offers and received those payments, would be potentially in trouble as well.

Whether anything happens with this angle of the controversy remains to be seen. But federal prosecutors have broad discretion as to the cases they will bring or not bring. Flores and Jackson have said more than enough to get someone’s attention. And that could be more than enough get someone indicted, sooner or latter.

If that's true, I'm so freaking pissed. Way to make our organization look like criminal losers. I hope all involved are fired and sued.

Brian Flores is a brave man. Good for him.

If this is true, it will rank up there with some of the worst that has happened to the Browns franchise..

I think someone mentioned this. Imagine what kind of corruption could have gone on with the sports betting if they were tanking on purpose.

If Hue has evidence, he should produce it. Until and unless that happens, the Browns are in the impossible position of having to prove something didn't happen.

The Browns angle on this story really needs its own thread. This could be a real catastrophe for the Browns if this gets investigated and proves in anyway true. As in Haslam forced to sell the team and all upper management gone kind of bad. Not that I’m a Haslam fan, that part doesn’t bother me so much but you can forget any kind of stability for probably 3-5years if it comes to pass. I don’t know if my fandom will survive that.

I would think his lawyer hot-dialed him and that Kimberly woman and told them to STFU right now. He I’m sure had no idea how exposed he is personally with that kind of accusation. I’ll be willing to bet that any evidence they may have will suddenly become very hard to find.

Give this time.

Allow the light to shine and at some point maybe there will be truth.

Man, if he goes on national TV and digs his own grave… that would be so Hue

Why?

If the NFL really knew about this, could they lose their business license?

Hue Jackson has NO Credibility ....

What's he hoping for, an asterisk next to his "worst coach in NFL history" title?

Sorry Hue, you did that all by yourself. You didn't need an incentive.

Hue backs down and just stomps on some sour grapes... as if he didn't know we were in a rebuilding process.

No smoke, no fire.

Yeah Hue just wants his 15 minutes.

Nothing to see here. Move along. Move along.

It's funny because he's complaining about a plan that basically said we would be competitive by year three and compete for the playoffs... "that's amazing to me, no coach takes a job to lose..."

You did, bozo, all you're admitting is that you knew it was true from the start.

What a dolt.

It's not really about taking a job knowing you are going through a rebuilding process and will lose a lot of games. The smoking gun would be if there is documented or verifiable evidence an owner bribed you to lose intentionally and that fallout could be serious (see article below).

It was just discussed on Sports Center that some owners have seemingly hired a minority candidate, so they look good in the eyes of the league and then proceed to tank with the minority HC who is then ultimately fired. See David Culley as a prime example of these accusations.

Stephen Ross, Jimmy Haslam could be prosecuted for violating the Sports Bribery Act
Posted by Mike Florio on February 2, 2022, 2:47 PM EST

As we continue to get our arms around the far-reaching implications of the landmark lawsuit filed against the NFL and multiple teams on Tuesday by former Dolphins coach Brian Flores, it’s possible that some wrists will end up encased in handcuffs.

While appearing on Dan Abrams’s SiriusXM POTUS 124 show earlier in the hour, we discussed the possibility of a prosecutor convening a grand jury on the specific question of whether Dolphins owner Stephen Ross or Browns owner Jimmy Haslam bribed coaches and/or others to deliberately lose football games. Flores has accused Ross of offering $100,000 per loss; former Browns coach Hue Jackson has suggested that Haslam did something similar.

The Sports Bribery Act criminalizes such conduct. Under 18 U.S.C. § 224, “Whoever carries into effect, attempts to carry into effect, or conspires with any other person to carry into effect any scheme in commence to influence, in any way, by bribery any sporting contest, with knowledge of the purpose of such scheme is to influence by bribery that contests, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.”

Based on the language of the statute, it doesn’t matter whether the offer is accepted. Liability arises if the person “carries into effect” the scheme or “attempts to carry into effect” the bribe. The mere offer of $100,000 to Flores, without more, would constitute a violation by Ross.

As to the Browns, acceptance of the inducement and acting on it would potentially extend criminal responsibility beyond Haslam. Jackson, if he acted on those offers and received those payments, would be potentially in trouble as well.

Whether anything happens with this angle of the controversy remains to be seen. But federal prosecutors have broad discretion as to the cases they will bring or not bring. Flores and Jackson have said more than enough to get someone’s attention. And that could be more than enough get someone indicted, sooner or latter.

Racism is thrown around way too much. The NFL is undoubtedly a shady/cutthroat business, but it's hard to show racist hiring practices after you've been hired as a HC. Throw in the fact that Flores hadn't even officially had the defensive coordinator title in NE, and one could probably argue the opposite. He had the defensive playcalling for one season after Patricia went to the Lions. It's not like he was a guy that was waiting forever to get his chance and was passed over constantly. He climbed the ranks rather quickly. He seems a strange choice for the face of a class action suit on racist hiring practices.

It didn't help his case this cycle that he couldn't find an OC to stick with while coaching the Dolphins. Hard to sell a plan for developing a QB with as inconsistent as Tua was.

Not sure what to think of the paid to lose side of things. Somewhat hard to believe seeing how angry/seething the owners looked while the losing was happening. Unspoken expectations of losing, sure, but brazen paying for losses is something else. Hue trying out a new excuse doesn't surprise me. If it were true, I would have thought he'd have used it sooner.

Hypocrisy.

Of course teams tank. You think NBA teams didn't tank?

Hue was not as bad as the record he had. I give him that. But he for sure knew what the strategy was.

He has no case against the Browns. There is nothing to prove.

The Ross thing is different. Flores is alleging he was told he would be paid $100k for every game lost.

So now Hue wants to jump on that train. This is his way to say I was not a bad coach.

DePodesta and Sashi were playing moneyball. They knew they had to accumulate draft picks. I don't fault their strategy.

Nobody told the players to lay down. The coaches and Hue still tried to win. Did Hue know he was in a position that he had a bad team and they would lose games? Damn straight he knew. Everybody knew the team was horrible.

Hue was not hired as a black fall guy by Haslam with Sashi as the GM.

Nobody had to pay Hue to lose.

So Hue's "supporting evidence" for Brian Flores had nothing to do with what Brian Flores alleged, but may very well have diminished the effect of those allegations. Typical d*** move by the king of assclowns.

Agreed, we all knew the plan. Even if it was/wasn’t announced we were going to suck.
He should be happy if he got paid a “hazard pay” bonus for having to endure those rosters.

Lol....

The fact the Hugh is so dumb is maybe his greatest blessing in this case. If he had actually managed to put together any semblance of a coherent position in that interview he, the team, and potentially the league would be looking at major legal problems. But thank god he’s as dumb as a box of rocks. Sheesh

I don't think the Browns actually said that. I cannot find the source.

That's actually a movie quote from Billy Madison.

Well at least RG3 has jumped in the limelight and twisted things Hue didn't even say. He was also "done dirty" by the Browns as a "young QB trying to revitalized his career". Problem is, Hue apparently already saw the writing on the wall when the "ground moved beneath his feet", so Hue would also be implicit in this blatant racism.

It is a movie quote. McNeil is a humor account.

That's what happens when I don't watch Adam Sandler.

It would seem that what Hue is rambling on about has absolutely nothing to do with what Flores claimed and what his lawsuit is about. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I fully expect a hefty fine for the team and a loss of a draft pick for this debacle. Haslem should be forced to sell the team, first it was the fuel rebate scandal, now this. This is why Cleveland can't have nice things

What debacle? What exactly did the team do to warrant a fine, a loss of a draft pick and a forced sale of the team?

people are basically eating him alive because it's BS

I said it before, I'll say it again. His salary is known/was known.

Did he record this supposed extra money on his taxes? His tax returns will prove it. If he got the extra (same for Flores), it will be shown on the returns.

If he,and Flores, got the money, but didn't report it or pay taxes on it, they are in tax trouble.

It's a relatively easy figure out. I highly doubt the Dolphins owner was tossing $100,000 in cash to Flores for each loss. As such, proof should be relatively easy to access.

Hue Jackson

Dude you just told everyone a while back that the Browns deceived you when they hired you because they never told you that they were rebuilding now you're trying to tell us that the Browns offered you incentives lose. Which is it?!?! Somebody check and see if Hue's pants are on fire.

For being the model of a calculated rebuild without shenanigans?

Browns laid out the process, Miami tried to cut corners and break the rules.

Hue gets diarrhea of the mouth.

Flores has already stated in his lawsuit that Ross offered the $100k per loss during a meeting Ross held on his yacht and Flores got up and left the meeting.


If Hue did get money his taxes wouldn't necessarily prove that the money was given as direct payment for being paid to tank. It's not like there would be a note on the check that states: Tanking Bonus

The burden of proof is on Hue to provide eveidence. I can't imagine his attorney advising him it's wise to make such accusations, in which Hue himself would be complicit in, and go on national tv to talk about it. Nobody steps on their own testicles quite like Hue.

To clarify, Flores said he was offered the money to lose and refused.

which means, he was fired because he was not following the rebuild plan.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...er-loss-tanking-offer-owner-stephen-ross

"there were certainly some strained relationships, and ultimately, I think that was my demise in Miami."


So, he was fired because he didn't want to follow the company directive to rebuild.

Hue Jackson is an egotistical liar who cannot keep his lies straight at this point.

He has said multiple times in the past that no one told him the Browns were going to tank when he was hired; now, he says the showed him the 4-year plan that showed the would be bad for the first 2 years and he "didn't understand" it? Which is it Hue?

He is also on record saying that he had bad players on his team, but (and I quote) "I was expected to win." Which is it Hue? Were you paid to lose, or expected to win?

His statements have no bearing on Flores' case. Entirely different situation. Hue was not paid to throw games, period. Why would you throw games for draft position when you are 0-16 and the next worst team is 3-13? Does that make any sense?

Another thing - if you have actual evidence for a lawsuit, you don't post on Twitter and tell the person to "DM" you. Your lawyers get in contact with their lawyers, end of story. This is just one big publicity stunt for Hue, probably to promote his book. And that's a shame, because it's taking away from what Flores is trying to do.

If Hue has proof then produce it..... if it's true then I'm pissed we intentionally tanked for one play off win (so far)... if it's false (which I believe) then Hue needs to shut the hell up and never be allowed in the NFL again...

I do think Flores has a legit beef... if he got a (mistaken) text from BB congratulating him (Bryan Daboli) on the job before his interview, that's shady as hell

This is my recollection as well. Hue was disappointed specifically when Haden was let go.

We all knew indi sucked for Luck

I do think the story about exec`s were drinking the night before an interview was lame....

So you know this?


As for Hue, he is doing his best to place blame on other people for his failed head coaching.

J/C

Just a few thoughts (not sure I know the answers).

1. Wouldn't it have made more sense for Flores to wait until all the current positions were filled and see if he got one of them before filing this suit? If he gets one, he could keep this in his hip pocket until a later time.

2. If he was offered $100,000 for losses in Miami and was so appalled, why not resign on the spot and blow the whistle then? Why work for this type of person/organization? Did he sacrifice his principles for the chance to be a head coach? If so, how strong are those principles?

3. If you were one of the teams still deciding on your head coach at this point and were leaning toward offering to Flores, would you still do it? Would it be seen as, "Oh sure, you're just hiring him because of the lawsuit"?

4. At some point might Belichick be subpoenaed to testify as to how he supposedly knew that Daboll was getting the job even before the Flores interview. That could be interesting for sure.

Again, just some thoughts that rolled into my head over the past few days.

I'm really not sure what to think about all this, because the heart of the 2 accusations (the way I see it) are two pretty much accepted and joked about truths about the league. We've been joking about "suck for Luck/tank for Teddy" for years. We've been discussing how the Rooney Rule is a joke for years. IIRC, a team once interviewed a coordinator that had just been let go from the same team (he was a minority). Some teams are really not subtle about their blasé approach to the rule.

Hue and Co. would have to have some pretty damning documented evidence, because the things we already know about "The Plan" in years 1 and 2 are things that had been pretty much common practice. Further, the NFL has kept pretty close tabs on this stuff (I'm reminded of the Brock Osweiler trade and the swift rule change that came after it).


If nothing else, the NFL will 'protect the shield' and make this go away.

Of course I don't know it.

But hell yes I believe it.

Hue is a stollie. He knew the plan. The Browns had no choice. They were going no where with the roster.

Made perfect sense to get rid of contracts of vets. Go young. Acquire draft capital. Get way under cap.

Teams rebuild. No mystery there.

Flores is totally different. Ross was trying to get Watson. Then that falls through and he says the organization is behind Tua.

As an owner if you look at the team and say the ceiling is 5-8 games. Of course they will look at the draft. If they see a qb who is all that and they want the guy. Is there conversations about "we may be better off losing." Highly likely.

You would think that Ross would be smart enough to not get caught. So does Flores have proof? I don't know.

j/c...

Jason Lloyd
@ByJasonLloyd
Brian Flores’ suit names a number of minority coaches who have been ignored or not given a fair chance at head coaching jobs. One name he didn’t include? Hue Jackson.
Hue and his team want to be part of Flores’ suit. But he proved yet again he has no case

https://twitter.com/ByJasonLloyd/status/1489311895836311558

A snippet from Jason Lloyd's article in The Athletic....

Hue Jackson brought a crowbar and bullhorn to a conversation he wasn’t invited to and yet again tried convincing the world how badly he was wronged by the Cleveland Browns.

This time, he insisted, he has the receipts. He can help Brian Flores’ case. But given the opportunity to show his hand Wednesday, Jackson instead revealed a 2-7 offsuit.

As with most of the rest of his career, Hue Jackson is bluffing.

..... Jackson, 56, insisted Wednesday he didn’t know what he was getting into when, in fact, he knew exactly what he was getting into because the Browns laid it out for him. There were no surprises or trap doors. There was no expectation to win during his first two years in charge. He knew that when he signed his four-year contract. A source with knowledge of the deal said there were no bonuses tied to winning — or losing — during the first two years.

.... When Jackson complained the Browns were destroying his career following a 1-31 record in his first two seasons, Haslam acquiesced and tacked a fifth year onto the back end of the deal, according to the source.

This wasn’t a team setting up a Black coach to fail, as Jackson is trying to convince us to believe. This was a team giving an extra year of security to a coach who hadn’t earned it. The Browns never went public with the extension because of how outrageous it would’ve appeared given his record.

.....In Flores’ 58-page complaint filed this week, his attorneys went into great detail singling out qualified minorities who were either passed over for head coaching opportunities or not given enough time to complete the job. Guys with legitimate complaints such as Wilks, Jim Caldwell, David Culley, Kris Richard, Teryl Austin and Eric Bieniemy.

One name that isn’t listed?

Hue Jackson.

I had no idea of the race of the Former Dolphins Head coach before this lawsuit. Did it matter?

he was told to talk Brady to come to Miami. He was told to lose games for better draft picks....he didn`t lose enough so he defied his boss...

I like this one better.

j/c:

One of my favorite Browns memories. Somebody, I think it was Jabrill Peppers said, "He could have gained more yards, but it was the proper move".

A more full quote:

... and 2ndly, Why do we have 2 issues, (I said after reading the part I just deleted and is not included in the above quote, sigh)
1. Flores and He has a legit beef?
2. Anyone was paid to lose, (totally separate, whether it was Flores or Hue Jackson, or neither or both, it just detracts from the main issue.

OK, it wasn't this message board, but a podcast on the subject I listened to get the news story, on the subject of, What is the lawsuit trying for. What is the aim? What happened?. And one of the descriptions from that podcast made a statement that, Flores wants,
Flores wants more black, African American people in influence of hiring and firing, in the NFL, ... (i'll guess, because he didn't get the job.)
So! To that point!

"Quote=jaybird " I do think Flores has a legit beef..." (me, Does Flores' have a Legit beef? maybe, lets look.)

NFL Owners, are (in large part) a bunch of old rich multi-millionaire, today billionaires, and historically, (say 1960s- on) were a bunch of old white men, kine of like an " Old boys club".
... I've lost all interest in making this point in this reply...

... Flores thinks White old boys club, can't possibly give black applicants a fair shake, (even though they instilled the racist Rooney rule, which gives preferential treatment to make sure black appplicants are interviewed before a white applicant can be hired, as we know, putting whites 2nd, which is why I call it racist)

The question is if only one race, or only the same race, or if someone from the white race, or if someone from an opposite race is "Capable" of giving an impartial not-racist consideration of applicants, (multiple) in regards to hiring a (coach at this point).

Flores argument, if his lawsuit, as I heard from some podcast is asking that blacks be involved in the hiring decisions, Which means?
That would ASSUME, presume, that NO, no one is physically capable of making a non racist hire. No one on earth apparently, because it's legality, and if arguing a "law" it's arguing no one on earth.

Flores, in a sense, is arguing (if I heard right), that the only way black applicants can get a fair shake, is to set up their own Black "old boys club" and then that way, he could get hired.

So, IN my brain. ( And I don't care how much, I mean feel free, to explain all the ways I'm not understanding this)
IN my Brain, I think, that, objectively
If the Old white men, old boys club, is inherently incapable of ever hiring a black coach, ( but there's been many and they made the rooney rule)
That as a lawsuit, the desire to set up an Old black men, old boys club to have control over hirings, is not going to be any more capable of making a (non racist hiring).

Because it is assuming, by way of what it is asking, that a fix to a perceived lack of (numerical, numbers) of black Coaches, is to install black ... (Owners?, decision makers in the hiring process.)
AS IF!!!
AS IF! To say, that only black hirers, can hire black applicants!
And therefore assume, black hirers would (because of race) hire black applicants. < Which is also racist.

End point, The Asking! that only black hirers, (A new old boys club of black hirers) who would inherently (by assumption of the lawsuits' argument) hire blacks on the basis of race.
is Not only
Is not only, calling all of the old boys club (of current hirers,) racist, and incapable of hiring impartially, BUT!!!
a demand to set up, A COUNTER, also racist, or this time assuredly- or for the purpose of to be racist, in the hiring (New old boys club of black hirers)
Because the whole premise of asking that black people be involved in hiring is an assumption that nobody can make an impartial hire
and black hirers would racistly hire blacks on the basis of their race.

Well. I think impartiality is the goal.
How can this be fair to Brian Daboll, if he is not given a fair shake?

Randall highlights also kind make me a little sad.

just here to say i love haslam blasting hue jackson. i cant believe dude tried to hope on this train.

Brutalized is an accurate description. Haslam left out all the fluff and just stuck with the white-hot truth.

The Browns and Haslam actually have a proud history of minority hires.

Sashi Brown, Andrew Berry and Hue Jackson held the most important positions in the organization in 2016.

Hue Jackson is doing nothing more than trying to prove that his record in Cleveland was not on him.

He is right to a degree. The first two years the cupbard was bare, Clearly, the Browns were in full rebuild mode. Hue knew all that.

He also knew come year three that he had to win some games. He lost the team. Hard Knocks was an exposure.

He has nothing on Haslam.

Water over the bridge.

Conversely, the dramatic turnaround once Hue was fired shows that if we had had pretty much ANY other NFL Head Coach in NFL history, we would have been better than 1-31 and likely would not have gone 0-16.

Hue's ego just cannot fathom absorbing the indisputable FACT that he is literally the WORST Head Coach in NFL history.

And in Haslem's quote he should have used the specific example of hiring Hue as a big part of his blame. He was the only one who wanted Hue when Sashi, Depo, et al. wanted Sean McDermott.

Ugh.

Well he was 8-8 with the Raiders. Ever see, Richie Kotite? Dave Shula? .. Well. I remember an occasion where I watched the Bengals under Dave Shula, never cross midfield on Sunday Night Football iirc. I'm sticking up for Hue Jackson? Moving on.

This is great. Remember the folks saying Sashi was so incompetent, he'd never work in the NFL again? One person even had it in their sig. And then they said that Hue just needed better players, that it was Sashi's fault that we were 1-31.

Fast forward to 2022. Sashi's president of an NFL team while the only way Hue can sniff the NFL is to make up BS to jump onto a class action lawsuit.

Who was that person?

From what I saw of Hue's interview...here he was on a national interview, and not promoting his Grambling team by wearing any of their gear to promote the program.

That says it all to me...

Pretty interesting back n forth with Benjamin Allbright, who is very much clued in to the NFL, especially the Broncos.....

The original tweet doesn't seem to be coming up so I'll type it in w/ a link.....

Be interesting to see if the Broncos, John Elway or Joe Ellis countersue Brian Flores for making up out of thin air that anyone was late to his 2019 HC interview, among other details.
https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/1489780418371072000









There is far more tweets from him, responses yo questions, and you can check it out for yourselves. Allbright is clearly coming from the angle that Flores made the Broncos stuff up out of thin air.

"And I have the documents to prove it," Jackson said.

Jackson was asked why he doesn't produce those documents if he has them.

"Those things will come to light at the right time," Jackson replied.

Lol, I'm howling. He's the NFL version of the pillow guy.

I still want to have Hue make a Cameo for me. His prices have gone from $40 to $70!

Hue has always been a clown. Good to see nothing has changed.

That's not what it said. But you do you. And the stalker can join you. Wait, he already did. After all these years somebody finally decided to give him another shot. It probably won't end any better than it did here.

If not, it was very close. I don't remember the exact verbage, but no goalposts were moved.

Sure they were. He couldn't get a job in the NFL at the time and that's what I said.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...HhBQYkqAioIPvk28bVDk77u-GY-QTVLUJEmU_lHU




Hue Jackson says he wasn't paid to lose, suggests Browns situation had similarities to that of Brian Flores
Jackson coached the Browns from 2016-2018
By Tyler Sullivan

Amid Brian Flores' lawsuit against the NFL alleging racism in its hiring practices, the former Dolphins head coach claimed that Miami owner Stephen Ross offered to pay him $100,000 per loss during the 2019 season. One of the more viral reactions to that allegation made by Flores came from Hue Jackson. The former Browns coach suggested that he too was paid by Cleveland ownership to tank during his time with the team, which was later vehemently denied by owner Jimmy Haslam.

However, in a recent interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper, Jackson noted that he was not paid to lose games when he was head coach of the Browns.

"No, I was never offered money like Brian (Flores) had mentioned," Jackson said. "I think this is a totally different situation but has some similarities."

While there was no outright payout incentive for Jackson, he told Cooper there was a "plan" that benefited certain people when players didn't perform well.

"When you talk about incentivizing a four-year plan that led to the team not being able to play as well, that people benefited off of that -- that's different. But at the same time, it has some of the same similarities to it," said Jackson.


Jackson also told CNN that he had evidence to back up his claim that ownership intended to lose games and even said he brought that issue to Haslam in 2016.

"I was assured by Jimmy (Haslam) that things would change, and they would get things straight," Jackson said. "I told Jimmy that what he was doing was very destructive, to not do this because it's going to hurt my career and every other coach that worked with me and every player on the team. And I told him that it would hurt every Black coach that would follow me. And I have the documents to prove this."

When asked why he hasn't revealed those documents yet, Jackson said they "will come to light at the right time."



Jackson, who is now the head coach at Grambling State University, went 3-36-1 during his coaching tenure with the Browns, which included an 0-16 campaign during the 2017 season.

So, if I have this right, he makes statements. Has proof. Then walks it back and...........

Replace 'statements' with 'unfounded accusations' and you have Hue pegged.

Hue refuses accountability and has a severe lack of humility.

If the NFL wanted to keep something quiet, how would they do that?

If a NFL franchise wanted to keep a story that 'named' 3 of their executives as being involved in an unflattering article, how would they make a story go away?

link

Sometimes people can have trouble recalling..while someone else might remember every detail...

They should do a "Hard Knocks" style show on HC hiring interviews. It'd be interesting to see how good (or otherwise) the candidates actually are in that setting. It could also be seen how the teams conducted themselves.

Were they done wrong? Or did they just not have the best interviews?

Even if not produced for external review, would be a good idea for the league to be able to review and possibly improve the process. It might also inspire some accountability.

I think "walking it back" is being really generous. He did a 180.

The Browns and the NFL have been trying get His to shut up since he got canned.

Think about it for a sec.. if Jackson was paid to lose,, he did what he was paid to do,, So why did they fire him mid season? I ain't buying into it. I think Jackson is full of it.

I think it was pretty obvious. During the tear down when they all first got here they knew he didn't have much talent to work with. So they infused talent to see if that was the problem. It obviously wasn't so it was time for him to go. I agreed with that approach the entire time.

The Rooney rule has been a farce since its inception. Many black coaches are routinely interviewed every cycle. It's like there is a list of guys who will take the interview, knowing they don't have a chance. Many probably are turned down for legitimate reasons, while many are probably not really being considered, but are used to meet quotas. It should be removed. While I do believe many think that there are intentionally few black head coaches, I find it hard to believe this is by design. There are many coaches of every race at every level in the NFL. There also has been an increase in FO positions filled by minorities. There are only 32 head coaching jobs, and if you look, many of these guys are just moved from team to team. I tend to believe that not only black coaches, but coaches from all races have been shut out of this "club". I think it has more to do with the corporate structure of the league. The same things happen in the business world. If you are not part of the "club", you are overlooked.

All this being said, teams are businesses owned by private entities. I, while not liking the way it works at times, I still feel they have the right to hire whoever they want, and should not be forced to hire anyone for any reason besides ability to perform the job at a level that they want, and in the manner they want.

It's been said on here several times (once by me), but the issue is not that minority coaches aren't getting interviewed (that's a symptom). It's that minorities aren't in the pipeline getting the experience/spotlight propelling them into the convo for HC positions. If anything needs to be juiced, it's the lower level positions where potential HCs are groomed.

Yeah, I remember that. It was a great line.

Hue might not have been paid...but 2 days after the story below, that names the Browns executives involved...Hue's memory became a bit fuzzy. The Hue Jackson Foundation might benefit the most as this story begins to fade.


Hue Jackson Foundation executive stands by pay for tanking claims, which Browns call 'categorically false'

link


Kimberly Diemert, the executive director of the Hue Jackson Foundation, confirmed late Wednesday morning she has indeed posted a series of tweets alleging the Browns paid former coach Hue Jackson and three team executives bonus money to tank during the 2016 and 2017 NFL seasons.

The franchise went 1-31 over the course of those two seasons.

Diemert alleged former head of football operations Sashi Brown, Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta and General Manager Andrew Berry received the financial bonuses in addition to Jackson. Diemert also accused the league and NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on Twitter of knowing about the alleged payments and covering them up. She tweeted she has proof.

“If anybody wants to verify whether or not those are my statements, they are absolutely my statements,” Diemert told the Beacon Journal by phone. “I stand behind them. They are verifiable. They are indisputable. If the Cleveland Browns organization or the NFL want to dispute them, tell them bring it on. It's there.”

Sorry too many involved in that supposed dastardly deed. Commissioner of the NFL? are you kidding me? Then Berry among others - something like that has to be held to the minimum possibilities and no players involved ??? sorry doesn't sound right - Depo, Berry, Sashi and the big joke is paying Hue to lose as if he needed to be paid extra to lose. sorry ain't buying it.smh

How about, Network news anchors, I don't think Nora Odonell or whomever is on CBS and ABC are representative of the population. I mean there are only 6 jobs, shouldn't 4 of them be forced to be divvyed up by, well that's stupid, but it's to show the propostersousness of deciding numbers equal opportunities.

Nobody could hear him, until he pulled his head out of his (lake Erie dunk).

They did dispute them. They pretty much said you were full of crap, young lady.

Don't let that distract you from what she's saying. She's tweeting about what she tweeted.

She's doubling down on something Hue Jackson already admitted didn't happen (on CNN). Try to keep up, Kimberly.


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...HhBQYkqAioIPvk28bVDk77u-GY-QTVLUJEmU_lHU

Is there any proof that the team didn't just like the other coach better? Better communication, resume, skills, something? If so that's not mine or anybody else's place to tell an owner what to do with their money. Maybe the owner just hated him? That is enough to warrant a firing.

As an aside I'm strongly against the Rooney rule since I think a persons work should speak for itself and not their skin color. No team should be forced by any entity to even interview someone that won't possibly get a job. I think it's patronizing, condescending, and downright disrespectful. It also reaks of some half ass affirmative action.

Hire the best man for the job regardless of skin color. Also, Hue Jackson is a clown, lol!

In the end I think that is the main factor. I don't think it is as complex as a owner not liking people of color.

Flores issued a statement regarding Houston hiring Lovie Smith and it couldn't sound any more like sour grapes.

There is something fishy going on with this Flores situation, IMO.

jc

flores was the hottest coach this offseason. all he had to do was be patient and he was gonna get a job from one of these teams, and there were plenty. i decided to take my right leaning people's advice and wait til most facts come out.

and my conclusion is dude played himself. he bought into the hype of him being a very hot candidate - which he was - to the point where he OVERHYPED his own status. basically drank his own koolaid. seems like he was offended that he didnt get the first job available. there were so many positions open that he actually had the ability to be choosey, and yet decided to do this only after 2 jobs were filled.

the giants, specifically, would've been a HORRIBLE choice for him. 2 busted 1st round players in Jones and Barkley, underachieving WR's and an ok defense. i get the overall feeling that it seems like black coaches get the short end of the stick more often than not, but still a case by case basis that WASNT going to apply to him. dude was literally a unicorn, and then decided to turn himself into a troll.

i cant feel bad for flores. everybody had his back when he got fired from the dolphins. i cant have his back on this situation though. and then you got clowns like hue jackson trying to hop on the bandwagon making everything worse. dude went 1-15, 0-16, and STILL kept his job after that. hue jackson has no business discussing race and opportunity when it comes to HC jobs. dude was the Josh Gordon of HC's.

it think we all agree that there IS something going on when it comes to not hiring/retaining minority coaches, but there's still a professional way to go about that. i can make the argument that black coaches as a whole dont get the long leash other HC do. look at the former arizona and houston coaches who got 1 year and fired. joseph from the broncos. Jim caldwell the biggest example of 'what the hell'? dude went to the SB with manning, manning had a season ending/career ending injury, goes 2-14 and immediately fired. goes to the lions, has 2 playoff appearances in 4 years, gets fired for matt patricia who didn't come close to anything caldwell did.

mike tomlin really is an anomaly. he had a QB and an ownership/FO with extreme patience.


none of that applies to Flores. he was universally respected and was guaranteed to get one of these HC jobs. he played himself, and i don't feel bad for him.

I think I'm still buying what he's selling, I just thought his little 'woah is me' bit about the Houston job was a really bad decision.

At the end of the day, what he's saying is that teams are making a mockery of the Rooney rule (which I 100% agree with), and that the Dolphins owner is a giant turd (which remains to be seen). Plus, Bienemy still not having a HC job when a team tried to hire McCown is not the greatest look.

Here is one person's opinion on that front.....

This. 100%. No idea legally what Flores claims will hold up to - but these two points are unequivocal.

i agree with your stance on the rooney rule, but to a point. at the end of the day, while the NFL can incentivize teams to hire minority HC's, they can't force the owners to hire somebody they don't want to.

i get Flores being ticked off with miami. the FO is trash and they want to keep it going with Tua. flores wanted Watson. all that is normal nfl drama that has nothing to do with race. if Flores bought into Tua, he'd still be coaching the dolphins. so you have a white owner/FO who fired a black HC because he didn't want to buy into a Samoan QB. gonna be tough to pull the race card there, especially since that same FO hired the black HC to begin with.

i really like the Rooney rule, but we have to also realize that its just a mechanism to get minority coaches interviews. if im an owner looking to hire an offensive minded HC because the league has trended toward explosive offenses, than that already narrows down the list of qualified candidates regardless of race. Flores is already out of the running for a lot of openings because he's a defensive minded HC. i dont care how much incentives you're gonna offer me, if i want my team to be explosive on offense, im not interested in a defensive minded candidate no matter how qualified he is for the HC position overall. but the thing is that Flores was gonna get another job with another team looking for somebody like him.

its just my opinion, but based on the league trends, there is one black OC right now that would have a legitimate gripe with a lawsuit: Byron Leftwich. he's far more qualified than the ones who just got hired in chicago and denver. but thats only if he was looking for a job.

Did not know that. Thanks

I really wanted to see Leftwich go back to the Jags and turn that thing around, woulda been a cool story. I agree though, that he is deserving of a HC gig, especially with how the game is played right now. I don't think it'll be long.

Leftwich pulled himself from the Jags job didn't he?

Yes.

Who knew that Byron Leftwich was black? ( I was going to say, How do we know that Byron Leftwich is black, .. but that sounds freakin idiotic after the context of the previous 2 posts.) Still, How do we know! Nobody has a rolodex of the flippin race of every person in league circles, that's insane!

Yes - was really hoping he'd get the job.... oh well...

Well that's interesting.

Is that bad for Brian Flores? That seems bad.

Indeed!

That's not clownish - that corrupt and exploitative.

I'm no Hue defender, but that can't be right.

It doesn't look right either but its just a Form 990 lookup away. I wouldn't be surprised, however.

It looks accurate from what I saw....$4,038 in grant support. 2018 Form 990 shows over $32,475.

Yep.

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/821348908/202023159349304507/IRS990

https://www.open990.org/org/821348908/hue-jackson-foundation/

I’m glad that everyone else now also knows that Hue Jackson is the worst.

Years after Hue is gone people can't keep his name out of their posts. Yet people complain about people talking about OBJ only months after he left. You couldn't make this stuff up if you tried folks. I mean, after these years, who really care about Hue Jackson? It appears many of you do.

Hue Jackson horrible coach, even worse person.

Ahhhh...

It's "us" that can't Hue's name out of our mouths.

You do realize that us is plural just like the word people, right?

The guy that had a Sashi Brown-related signature until last year is attempting to legislate posts about Hue Jackson "after all these years".

I'm not trying to legislate anything. Just watching the circus. You don't have to like clowns to watch the circus.

Lolz.

Is that seriously your takeaway from the HJF tax form? Don't try to make it sound like HJ is in the spotlight for any other reason than he's an attention-whore.

No-one was talking about Hue. Hue leaped into the Flores "discussion" by lying and getting himself erroneously inserted. So he and his meritless publicity got introduced to this Brian Flores thread ... seems entirely justified to highlight this new tweet from today, Feb 28th, and add it to the discussion to show what a complete and utter douche this person is.

Ahhh... now I get it, Hue.

You took your own money... donated it... and then paid yourself as executive director. To a charity that donated less than 5% of the money.

When Hue speaks, it's usually not @IRS_CI that gets to grab the popcorn!

j/c:

I’m sure this was worth the horrible PR Hue took that was totally predictable and avoidable.

You just wait...... Hue's going to get another NFL HC gig with "real players" to prove it really was all Sashi's fault.

No it's legal. That's why so many do it. A lot of these charitable foundations, and political pacs do that.

He already got some "real talent" and could do nothing with it. That's why he got fired mid season. I didn't see anyone objecting when he did.

Brian Flores files letter to oppose sending case to arbitration

Posted by Michael David Smith on March 9, 2022, 1:57 PM EST


As PFT noted shortly after former Dolphins coach Brian Flores announced his lawsuit alleging racist hiring practices in the NFL, sending the case to arbitration has the potential to derail the suit. Today the attorneys for Flores filed a letter opposing that happening.

Flores and his attorneys are arguing that the case should be argued through the legal system in open court, and not through private arbitration.

“The claims that we filed involve important issues of systemic race discrimination and the integrity of NFL football games,” Flores said in a statement. “Unfortunately, the Dolphins and their attorneys, Quinn Emanuel and Paul Weiss, are trying to push the claims against the Dolphins into secret arbitration proceedings that lack transparency. There are currently ongoing legislative efforts to end forced arbitration for claims of race discrimination, which I fully support. I would hope that the NFL and Dolphins would also support those efforts. Commissioner Goodell now has a choice to make. Will he allow this case and future race discrimination claims to play out in a transparent and public legal process, or continue along the same unacceptable path?”

Flores wants the case he brought to be heard out in the open, and sending it to arbitration would result in the case being kept quiet.


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...r-to-oppose-sending-case-to-arbitration/

I can't say I am surprised that this became a "Hue" thread, but I think there are a few extremely important aspects of this story.

1. There is no doubt in my mind that minority coaches are not being given equal opportunity by NFL owners. Seventy percent of the players are black. Yet, last year, only two blacks were head coaches. Tomlin in Pittsburgh has never once had a losing season. The other was the dude in Houston who was a sacrificial lamb. Hell, I thought the guy actually got the Texans to overachieve. Furthermore, I think a lot of black coaches get thrust into terrible situations. They get hired by losing teams and then are discarded. Very few get a second chance. I think it is unfair and folks need to fight for equality.

2. I respect that Flores filed the lawsuit. However, he probably should have not divulged secrets about the folks in Miami and Denver. Trust goes a long way w/people. Telling organizational secrets does not illicit trust. It gives the owners and other racist people a chance to say......"they can't be trusted." While it may be unfair, I think it is best for blacks and other minorities--and even women--to carry themselves w/the utmost dignity and integrity. Never give those in power to say things like: "See what they do when you give them some power."

3. I can't believe some are pretending that teams like the Browns, Dolphins, etc didn't tank. They most certainly did. I also think that tanking is a huge black eye on professional sports. It compromises the integrity of the game. Teams should be severely punished for tanking. Additionally, think of the athletes themselves. You work your entire life to reach the pinnacle of your chosen profession. You have to be incredibly competitive and you know your time is short in the league. Yet, some brainiacs in suits choose to intentionally lose games. Changes are made and all of a sudden you are out of a job. I have zero respect for anyone who believes that intentionally losing games to improve their draft position is a sound strategy. It's a huge tarnish on the game, much like Shoeless Joe Jackson and the Black Sox.

Nice to hear from you again.
We go back decades, your voice was missed. Don't be a stranger.


The minute I finished reading this paragraph, I thought of Joe Thomas:
48 wins.
128 losses.
Zero playoff appearances.
10 Pro Bowls in 11 seasons.

0-16 team record his final year.

This was a s#y thing to happen to a first-ballot HOF player.

Sounds like money laundering to me.

Great point about Joe Thomas. I didn't even have him in mind when I made that comment, but you are correct. Think about this......say you are a marginal guy not making a ton of cash. You have a family. You are fighting and clawing to stay in the league and your team intentionally tanks. The culture is absolutely toxic because everyone knows the powers-that-be are intentionally trying to lose and ridding themselves of good players in order to obtain draft picks. Your stock falls and soon you are out of a job. You have a wife and kids to support and you worked your entire life to make a living at the game you love. You find yourself on the streets.......yet again.

There is a line from Pink Floyd's Us and Them that is about war, but is apropos here:

Forward he cried from the rear
And the front rank died
And the general sat
And the lines on the map
Moved from side to side

I want to truly believe the Browns are not one of those teams that potentially tanked. I personally think we did not, and that Hue is just trying to get his name mentioned again. Another attention hog that doesn't know how to handle it when he is not in the news. There was no way that the team that went 0-16 should have had that record they were better than that. Hue just was not good.

Versatile Dog, so glad to see you are back!

I'm biased. Just putting that out in front.

I think we operated in a grey area between being competitive and tanking. I think we sacrificed a bunch in the short term ("tore it down to the studs", "took advantage of other teams devaluing future draft picks", "played the younger guys to see what we have", etc). What we were doing before the 'tanking' obviously wasn't working.

If that constitutes 'tanking' for you, then ok. I'm less inclined to throw around that label because we did it to get more competitive faster. Maybe I'm splitting hairs to give my team the benefit of the doubt.

I would agree with you. To think any other way would be to suggest that any time a team makes a strategic decision for the future, and sacrifices anything but the best possible team on every Sunday, they are in some form 'tanking'.

And let's not lose sight of what the Flores claim was - his claim was there was a bonus offer to lose. That's in a whole new ballpark regardless of what teams do in order to cut dead wood and lay a foundation for the future.

Exactly! (Flores being offered money/loss)

Hue failing miserably on national media to get the 'tanking' label to stick is really telling. Again, I don't begrudge anyone for disliking what we did. We did push some boundaries to accumulate the draft and $$ capital we had when Dorsey came in. We did things that nobody else was doing (Osweiler trade, for example). You can absolutely make a compelling argument that that was tanking. IMO, it wasn't... there was a line we did not cross.

Could not disagree more. You do whatever you have to do within the rules of the game to get better. In the case of the NFL, you cannot win without a QB. You do whatever you have to do to get one. In the case of the NBA, you cannot win without a top 5 player. You do whatever you have to do to get one. There aren't any rules being broken here. If people don't like it, change the rules.

As for the players themselves, they are responsible for their own play. You can still work hard, play great, improve, and prove your worth on losing teams. That's how you guarantee longevity. If you're good, your career will continue.

Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but I thought there were some shenanigans related to Horton's exit from Cleveland. I still wouldn't be surprised if we (legitimately) got dragged into this simply due to the sheer number of coaches that have come through here in the last 20 years.

There's one off the field headache we no longer have to worry about.

Wait.......I thought he said he had the documents to prove it...

What did Hue have to say for himself and his claim..?

There was a pic of his foundation spokeswoman holding some papers pretty much saying that they were the smoking gun. I don't remember where I saw it.

Comedy Central?

When it comes to Hue Jackson,,, I get the feeling he brought this to light to in a way defend his horrible record as a head coach in Cleveland.. His version of "the devil made me do it" in this case, the devil being Haslam....

As for him having proof, I'd say that like other parts of our lives today, Proof is something that is missing from lots of far out claims..... Seems that is the way things work today.

I thought someone else might ask, How could the NFL do a "legitimate investigation" of this matter if they didn't even talk to Hue?

The information released by the NFL creates some more questions...some that are brought up in the article below...

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“Prior arbitration proceeding” between Browns and Hue Jackson wasn’t over unpaid salary

Posted by Mike Florio on May 3, 2022, 10:24 AM EDT
link

The statement issued by the NFL on Monday regarding the investigation into claims made by former Browns coach Hue Jackson that the team offered incentives to lose in 2016-17 included a curious comment in the final paragraph. The league revealed that Jackson and the Browns were involved in a “prior arbitration proceeding.”

So what was the prior arbitration proceeding about? Per a source with knowledge of the situation, it wasn’t about money. Jackson, per the source, received every penny of his buyout, with no effort by the team to withhold his pay.


The Browns, per the source, remain confused about the purpose of the arbitration proceeding filed by Jackson. The source speculates that Jackson may have simply been trying to show that his abysmal win-loss record as coach of the Browns (3-36-1) wasn’t his fault.

Regardless, the prior arbitration proceeding resulted in filings and testimony that allowed the investigation to be completed without Jackson’s cooperation. Based on Jackson’s prior comments to SI.com, that arbitration apparently was aimed at raising his concerns through the proper channels.

So why did Jackson refuse to cooperate with the investigation? Was he concerned that evidence of deliberate tanking in 2016 and/or 2017 would expose him to liability? Did he realize that it would be difficult to change his prior testimony from the arbitration proceeding? Or did he just conclude it was a waste of time, if those issues were indeed previously presented via the NFL’s in-house secret rigged kangaroo court?

Regardless, Jackson pulled the pin on the grenade by chiming in after former Dolphins coach Brian Flores accused Dolphins owner Stephen Ross of offering $100,000 for each loss in 2019. When the grenade went off, he was nowhere to be found.

j/c...

Looks like it's just procedural, right?

Looks like an unfavorable ruling for team Flores that wanted to make this public as opposed to the NFL wishes of keeping everything sealed and private. Arbitration ruling still pending.

https://twitter.com/AaronWilson_NFL/status/1555230671215411200

Anyone else beginning to despise the NFL?

Only those who don't get their way.

Ahh, I see now, so it centered on receiving information to make it public. I think he'd still be able to do so eventually, but now he'll have to wait a while.

now play nice kids. lmao.