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The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Or it is a non starter being made a story.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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There is a lot to unpact.
Serious implications.
Ross the owner offering $100k a game to tank. Ouch
Flores is taking some big shots. This will make the Kaepernick story small by comparison.
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The $100k incentive to tank games will be quite serious if provable, considering all the gambling money on the line. Charles Robinson @CharlesRobinson This Brian Flores lawsuit against the #NFL is going to resonate throughout sports and be a significant moment in the history of the league. I’ve spoken to two other coaches who believe they have the receipts to be a part of the class. This could be a tsunami before it’s all over. https://twitter.com/CharlesRobinson/status/1488641698435584000
Last edited by Milk Man; 02/01/22 08:37 PM. Reason: Tweet wouldn't load. Link provided.
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I'll admit, I was a bit surprised when Brian Flores was fired. - He went 24-25 with a substandard roster. I would have given the guy a couple more seasons. But unfortunately, I don't own a pro football team. - The men who own these teams are highly successful and got to their status in life by employing and empowering the best available candidates. Jim Harbaugh, based on his record in San Francisco is much more qualified than Brian Flores. Brian Daboll is unproven but given the fact that Brian Flores went .500 with a similar roster, I can see why the Giants chose Daboll.
I think some people claim racism when it's convenient for them. - Brian Flores didn't feel that the NFL was racist when the Dolphins fired Adam Gase and hired him. But, now that he's being told "no" - as in "no Mr. Flores we don't want you for this position due to your .500 record as the Dolphins head coach." He's throwing a tantrum. -- I don't see how this is racist. If anything what this whole stupid story tells us is that Brian Flores has a sense of entitlement - he thinks he should have a hc position because of the color of his skin. - And he's wrong.
Bill Belichick got fired once and had to go back to being a coordinator for a few years, Eric Mangini got fired a couple times and couldn't find a new gig, Mike Pettine got fired and had to go back to being a coordinator, and on and on.... Childish of Brian Flores to act this way. I'm hoping he drops this stupid lawsuit (that will go nowhere) goes back to being a coordinator, and catches on with another team as a head coach in a couple years.
However, to touch on the post above. If the whole "100,000 to tank" has any merit, then yeah, that's a huge deal. - But either way, Brian Flores puts himself in a bad light -- I mean, did he not speak up about this earlier because he thought he was getting another hc job? Or is the entire accusation untrue and he's making stuff up because he's got an axe to grind for not getting another hc job? Either way, we'll find out. -- I mean, whether the accusation is true or untrue, the NFL will have to speak on it.
Last edited by RememberMuni; 02/01/22 08:46 PM.
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J\C
I don't know if the New York job was not given to him because of racism or not. I do know that the hiring system in the NFL is broken. I want to believe it has more to do with the buddy system than race. The new GM of the Giants has history with Daboll.
Reading Twitter (more specifically NFL reporters and commentators) A lot of people are weighing in without all the facts on the table. This is going to get ugly. I don't trust the sports media to be fair to the NFL. I've seen how they have reported in the past. The thing is I don't care if they are fair. The NFL has had a long time to fix their hiring practices and haven't.
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there is a lot to unpack here.
If Flores did intentionally lose games ... yeah. not good. I really hope Ross didn't offer it and Flores didn't intentionally lose games.
As far as race goes, I would be greatly shocked if he was really fired from Miami because he was black. Especially since when he was hired, everyone knew he was black and retained employment for a significant amount of time. As far as the other 2 teams go, I am curious to see what comes out.
Racial injustices are real and it is something that needs to be fixed. This really feels like Flores is going "Antonio Brown mode" because he was fired.
Question - I thought teams were transparent with how much they pay their coaches, GM's etc?
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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I've always wondered what the big ruckus is about the need to hire more black NFL coaches, the argument being if the majority of the players are black, then more coaches should be black. My question is: is the implication that black players will respond better to black head coaches? I don't get it but just been curious
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From the initial article. Holy crap......BB's too smart to make a mistake like that. He'll stop at nothing to screw over a division rival, lol. ...However, hours later, Flores' lawsuit alleges, he received a series of text messages from Patriots coach Bill Belichick, under whom Flores worked for 10 years in New England. In those texts, Belichick told Flores he had heard from "Buffalo and NYG that you are their guy."
Flores then asked Belichick to clarify whether he meant to talk to him or Brian Daboll, who was also in the running for the Giants' job. Belichick then acknowledged his error and informed him that the Giants wanted Daboll.
"Sorry -- I f---ed this up. I double checked and misread the text. I think they are naming Brian Daboll. I'm sorry about that," Belichick texted....
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
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j/c… https://nypost.com/2021/03/30/secre...test-attempt-to-escape-browns-blame/amp/Hue Jackson’s recent tweets implying he, too, may have been paid to tank by Haslam are pretty wild. I remember when he went on WKNR last year and was talking about a secret contract extension. I can’t even imagine if it comes out that coaches were being paid to tank. Gasoline on the fire would be hire a minority coach, have them tank and be the fall guy and replace with white coach. Above is the article on the “secret contract” from Hue’s appearance on WKNR nearly a year ago:
Last edited by Milk Man; 02/01/22 11:39 PM. Reason: Link to article.
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I think we all know, or at least suspect that teams tank for the draft pick. I don't think they do it for gambling or anything like that. It was pretty well known that the NBA went to a lottery system for a reason, to help prevent tanking games.
It may work out the NFL does the same thing.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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For me I have no idea about being paid for losing etc. etc. I think I can say that rosters have been downgraded to ensure teams lose in fact it happened here at least twice and once it was glaring it was so bad.
But Flores is IMO a great coach to take a roster like he had to the brink of a playoff appearance is herculean at a minimum I didn't think in 2020 they would win a game they were that bad. Fans here will of course disagree with me they always do but that is why I loved Mangini as a coach we had a 2–3-win team and he managed to win games he was an overachiever as a coach, and they are rare look no further then Ski he roundly underachieved with the talent he had.
I will of course continue to support Ski as he finds his way but a repeat of what I saw this season and I will be calling for the team to hire Flores, but then again, I like winners and I could care less what color they are or how they are portrayed by the clueless press. Yup, Mary Kay I am looking at you.
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Of course teams set themselves up in a less than favorable opportunity to win, a lot of times that involves playing a bunch of young guys and getting rid of vets. You’re just not going to win in the NBA and NFL with a bunch of first and second year players playing.
However, if teams were literally paying coaches to lose intentionally, that would be a major scandal.
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j/c… https://nypost.com/2021/03/30/secre...test-attempt-to-escape-browns-blame/amp/Hue Jackson’s recent tweets implying he, too, may have been paid to tank by Haslam are pretty wild. I remember when he went on WKNR last year and was talking about a secret contract extension. I can’t even imagine if it comes out that coaches were being paid to tank. Gasoline on the fire would be hire a minority coach, have them tank and be the fall guy and replace with white coach. Above is the article on the “secret contract” from Hue’s appearance on WKNR nearly a year ago: I have no clue about coaches being paid to lose, but I have a very hard time believing anything Hue says considering almost everything he has commented on has been BS. I'm curious to see this unfold. Further, for the coaches claiming this issue, and they accepted the money, are they not complicit in the scheme? (note: I haven't read all the articles so maybe coaches said they didn't take the money).
Tackles are tackles.
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Gasoline on the fire would be hire a minority coach, have them tank and be the fall guy and replace with white coach. If that happened, I wonder if Goodell would have the legal power and/or the cajones to force the owner to sell?
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
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Not going to argue that none of his accusations are true, but wasn't there a documented rift between him, Ross and Tua? So he ends up being the odd man out. That's not racism, that's just removing the problem piece in the eyes of those that make the decision.
Daboll being hired over Flores. Daboll and Shoen worked together in Buffalo, so there was already a connection, I doubt it had anything to do with race.
I think Flores is a very good coach, and was interested to see where he would end up, and how they would do, but now I'm guessing he will never see another NFL job.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Gasoline on the fire would be hire a minority coach, have them tank and be the fall guy and replace with white coach. If that happened, I wonder if Goodell would have the legal power and/or the cajones to force the owner to sell? Goodell, can propose firing any owner, for wrongful conduct and would take that complaint to the league's Executive Committee. He would need 3/4 approval of the committee to terminate the owner.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 02/02/22 08:37 AM.
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Gasoline on the fire would be hire a minority coach, have them tank and be the fall guy and replace with white coach. If that happened, I wonder if Goodell would have the legal power and/or the cajones to force the owner to sell? I don't think Godell has the legal power over a coach. But, I'm sure he can make it feel that way to one of the club teams.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Gasoline on the fire would be hire a minority coach, have them tank and be the fall guy and replace with white coach. If that happened, I wonder if Goodell would have the legal power and/or the cajones to force the owner to sell? I don't think Godell has the legal power over a coach. But, I'm sure he can make it feel that way to one of the club teams / owners.
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Godell is nothing more than a mouth organ for the owners. They pay his salary.
Flores is a damn good coach. Frankly, I believe everything he said.
He doesn't have a prayer. And more than likely he will never be a head coach again in the NFL.
I give him credit for his courage.
He is going against big money and bigger power.
His actions though will shed light on reality.
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Gasoline on the fire would be hire a minority coach, have them tank and be the fall guy and replace with white coach. If that happened, I wonder if Goodell would have the legal power and/or the cajones to force the owner to sell? I doubt the lawsuit goes anywhere. His allegations regarding the interviews with Denver and NY is something we've been talking about practically since I joined the board. The Rooney rule is a joke. I doubt we hear anything, but what I'm most interested in is the stuff he's saying about the Miami owner (primarily incentivizing losing, and tampering with a QB). I would imagine that got a bunch of attention from the few people that can do anything about it (the other owners).
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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Further, for the coaches claiming this issue, and they accepted the money, are they not complicit in the scheme? (note: I haven't read all the articles so maybe coaches said they didn't take the money). In the lawsuit, Flores alleges that Stephen Ross offered him $100k per loss during a lunch meeting that Ross held on his yacht with Flores. Flores got up and left the meeting.
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im just here for the messiness of it all. great stuff to fill in the time between the SB
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
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As you age it is natural to become cynical.
Over time you get beat down with hypocrisy.
The NFL is full of it.
Robert Kraft. Daniel Synder. Haslam.
These guys were caught. How fast it all disappeared.
This guy Ross. Of course he was tampering. Of course he offered to pay Flores to tank. I have no doubt.
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In the lawsuit, Flores alleges that Stephen Ross offered him $100k per loss during a lunch meeting that Ross held on his yacht with Flores. Flores got up and left the meeting. I hope the yacht was docked, but its a funny visual to imagine Flores hearing Ross's proposal and jumping off ship to swim ashore.
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This is just the beginning of this story.
The **** hit the fan.
All kinds of stuff will come out of the woodwork.
This is a class action suit. Daylight is going to shine.
Last edited by bonefish; 02/02/22 11:57 AM.
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"My sincere hope is that by standing up against systemic racism in the NFL, others will join me to ensure that positive change is made for generations to come."
I'm just trying to figure out which part of this is "racist".
Is it all racist just because he's black?
Is the Rooney Rule, a rule (as dumb as it is) that's meant to make sure minorities get interviewed, racist just because the Giants didn't hire him?
Does "drinking heavily the night before" make someone racist?
I'm confused.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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This is just the beginning of this story.
The **** hit the fan.
All kinds of stuff will come out of the woodwork.
This is a class action suit. Daylight is going to shine. Yes, including a certain ex-Browns' coach, apparently. What a surprise, the Browns were tanking when they went 1-31.
Last edited by Dave; 02/02/22 12:01 PM.
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I'm *assuming* that "systematic racism" in the NFL is demonstrated by the number of minority HC's in the NFL.
I'm *assuming* systematic racism is acknowledged by the NFL which is why they have the Rooney Rule in the first place?
The Rooney Rule is hot garbage and does not fix the problem - but doesn't it's existence give a nod to an ongoing issue that needs to be addressed?
Last edited by mgh888; 02/02/22 12:46 PM.
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I certainly give credence to what Flores is saying. There is a reason for that.
I think we all know that in NFL owners circles this will automatically remove him from consideration for many future NFL jobs. They will label him as not being trustworthy. He's taking a huge hit in the future of his career. Lawsuits do pay if you win but at his age, 41, he has at least a 20 year window left in his NFL career. That means he is a man willing to put a lot on the line for his principals. Anyone willing to take such a huge risk and personal hit to his own career, it just doesn't make sense to me he would do that by making things up.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Having Hubris Jackson as your head coach is the epitome of tanking.
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The Rooney Rule is hot garbage and does not fix the problem - but doesn't it's existence give a nod to an ongoing issue that needs to be addressed? This, IMO, is the interesting part of the racism portion of the story. The Rooney Rule's complete ineffectiveness has got to be the worst-kept secret in all pro sports. We've all known it's a joke for a long long time now. Also, I disagree with bone. I doubt the ish will hit the fan. If the NFL was able to bury the WFT investigation, it will bury this as well.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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I find it funny if it's true that Hue said he was told to tank when not that long ago he tried to tell everyone that he knew nothing about the team being in rebuild mode while he was the head coach.
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j/c
I have no opinion at this time on the validity, or lack thereof, about the accusations by Flores, and Jackson.
My question would be, "why did they accept the money?"
Next question would be, IF they accepted the money, did they claim it on income taxes? If so, this would be easy to prove I would think. The salaries are fairly well know, and adding an extra say $800,000 that they paid taxes on would be a dead giveaway something was going on.
If they DIDN'T claim the money as income, they each could be in trouble for tax evasion, as well as the teams.
More will come out in the coming weeks, months, etc.
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One thing is for sure. He (Flores) will never get another job in the NFL.
I hope he saved his money well.
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And that was my point to some degree. He might get another coaching job in the NFL but it's lessened his odds by a lot.
There's no logical reason a man with such a bright future coaching in the NFL would risk his entire career just to fabricate such a story.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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In a statement, a Browns spokesperson denied the allegations (by Hue Jackson) Wednesday afternoon. "The recent comments by Hue Jackson and his representatives relating to his tenure as our head coach are completely fabricated," the spokesperson said. "Any accusation that any member of our organization was incentivized to deliberately lose games is categorically false." https://www.beaconjournal.com/story...flores-black-coaches-lawsuit/9281046002/
Last edited by Dave; 02/02/22 04:46 PM. Reason: My parentheses.
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j/c...
This is from the Executive Director of the Hue Jackson Foundation.
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Stephen Ross, Jimmy Haslam could be prosecuted for violating the Sports Bribery ActPosted by Mike Florio February 2, 2022, 2:47 PM EST linkAs we continue to get our arms around the far-reaching implications of the landmark lawsuit filed against the NFL and multiple teams on Tuesday by former Dolphins coach Brian Flores, it’s possible that some wrists will end up encased in handcuffs. While appearing on Dan Abrams’s SiriusXM POTUS 124 show earlier in the hour, we discussed the possibility of a prosecutor convening a grand jury on the specific question of whether Dolphins owner Stephen Ross or Browns owner Jimmy Haslam bribed coaches and/or others to deliberately lose football games. Flores has accused Ross of offering $100,000 per loss; former Browns coach Hue Jackson has suggested that Haslam did something similar. The Sports Bribery Act criminalizes such conduct. Under 18 U.S.C. § 124, “Whoever carries into effect, attempts to carry into effect, or conspires with any other person to carry into effect any scheme in commence to influence, in any way, by bribery any sporting contest, with knowledge of the purpose of such scheme is to influence by bribery that contests, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.” Based on the language of the statute, it doesn’t matter whether the offer is accepted. Liability arises if the person “carries into effect” the scheme or “attempts to carry into effect” the bribe. The mere offer of $100,000 to Flores, without more, would constitute a violation by Ross. As to the Browns, acceptance of the inducement and acting on it would potentially extend criminal responsibility beyond Haslam. Jackson, if he acted on those offers and received those payments, would be potentially in trouble as well. Whether anything happens with this angle of the controversy remains to be seen. But federal prosecutors have broad discretion as to the cases they will bring or not bring. Flores and Jackson have said more than enough to get someone’s attention. And that could be more than enough get someone indicted, sooner or latter.
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