With the addition of Shelby Harris outside of minor tweeks of final cuts. We have our roster.

We for sure have our starters.

Not all the starters are All Pros. At the same time IMO we do not have any liabilities either. We have some guys that are most likely league average. But I do not think we have starters below that level.

All the buzz on teams like the Jets and Cowboys. Guess what? They cannot say that. There are questions and real issues.

The Jets better be careful protecting Rodgers. Their OL is questionable. Zack Martin and the Cowboys?

Go through the teams in the NFL and you can find holes in rosters.

The Browns don't have rookie starters unless a rookie somehow in camp beats out a vet.

Thinking back over many years I don't remember feeling this way.

I cannot predict how we will play or what our record will be. However, this is the best team of starters that I can remember since the Marty years.

Quincey Carrier pretty much analyzes the roster to the same conclusion that you included in your post. "We got rich people's problems!"

I don't think any team knows if or what there liabilities may be until they play the games. Judging that based on what looks good on paper has been shown to be a fatal flaw.

We still have to be a team.

There is still tons of talent spread throughout the NFL.

But like I said thinking back to prior years. I would look at the starters and know we had questions or feel we have starters that would not make other rosters.

The year we began with Cody Kessler as our quarterback. I went on a fishing trip with my son to British Columbia. We got there on opening day. In Canada non-residents cannot fish on Sunday. So we rigged up a way to watch the game. I told my son. "We may not win a game."

So, no matter what happens. I cannot look at this roster and think. "Hey, we don't have a prayer."

If Newsome isn't healthy Mitchell stands a chance to start

And of course it depends on what you call a starting WR. I look for the browns to run a lot of four WR sets so if you count that as four starting WR's I think Tillman will be in that group.

If Mitchell ends up starting that's great. That means he beat out Emerson and Green and possibly Ford who are all proven veteran players with NFL game experience, (purple inferred).

There will be of course rotations and packages.

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/depth-chart


But the depth chart is in the link. No rookies.

Again I don't remember going into a season with this kind of roster.

It is a long season and there will be injuries. But all teams have to manage depth. Depth that will be dependent upon rookies or guys from the bottom of a roster that will never be starters.

truthfully, one of my big concerns now is the kicker

Until York or someone else proves to be reliable.

I agree. It is a part of football and honestly I don't like it.

Rule changes have ruined one of the most exciting plays in football. The Josh Cribbs special.

IMO way to many games are won and lost by some converted soccer kicker. I don't like to watch a game that is close decided by kickers.

Players are out there slugging it out for four quarters and then some guy in a never been dirty uniform comes in and decides the game.

Yuck.

That is not a good sign. More of an indication as to how the Deshawn Watson trade has deprived the team of young talent.

Even a good team will have a rookie starter.

Actually Woof, we do have some good young talent on this team. I don't think the DW trade has hurt us that much especially if he plays well. Yes, we traded 3 1st round picks but as I've stated before just about all our 1st round picks since we've come back in "99 have been busts with the exception of 3 or 4. We've drafted better in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. That has to change in the future if we expect to be competitive. I like what I see of our roster.

I will just say as a general rule I value those first round picks.

Fort many years the Browns were totally inept. AB has done better.

I think we have some good young talent, but what he's describing is probably going to end up happening in a few more years.

I get that this is a discussion forum and that topics arise organically. But this sudden concern or issue, whatever you choose to call it about rookie starters is odd to me. I've never heard a GM or football analytics geek correlate rookie starters to winning. I"m unaware of any empirical data that would indicate an impact or wins or losses. If anyone can produce such information I'd really be interested in reading it. I'm also aware of a sentiment on this board that no rookies be handed starting assignments. I don't know if any of the posters who hold to that are also now questioning the absence of rookies from the first team.

I don't feel strongly one way or another but some seem to have staked out a claim on this issue and it's not clear to me why suddenly it is an issue. Rookie development seems more important. Starting a rookie for the sake of saying you've done so seems arbitrary.

My point is the roster looks strong. The starters are at least average or above.

The DW trade did cost high draft picks. That was the cost in order to get DW.

Draft picks as we know do not always translate to starters no matter the round. But there is no dispute that the higher the round the better the odds.

The job of the GM is to build the best roster possible. You begin at quarterback.

If DW plays to his ability. This roster should win games.

Jim Schwartz and Bill Callahan have been NFL head coaches. AVP IMO is a good OC. Kevin Stefanski has won Head Coach of the Year.

We have a staff that has experience.

The roster has high end talent. DW, Chubb, Myles, Bitonio, Teller, Za'Darius, Ward, Cooper.

We are in the AFC which is loaded. The North may be the most competitive division. The schedule will be challenge.

The Browns are in the best position to win this year than they have been since the Marty years.

We are fast approaching the beginning of the season where the rubber meets the road. We will find out what kind of team we are.

j/c:

This is the best roster, on paper, that we've had since 1999 and I don't think it is even remotely close. Sure, it all has to come together but I'm optimistic it will.

Hopefully we can limit injuries and be in "mid-season form" sooner rather than later. If so, this is a team that will surprise many in 2023.

Thanks, DePodesta!

Injury is always a major concern. We can only hope for the best.

We cannot afford not being ready to go. The schedule is tough. This pre-season has to prepare us.

We have the potential to be very good.

I agree. Most of the roster seems set. But I remain open to more upgrades. Our PS can be vital this year to develop players for the future, and we have some well- qualified players to help them along.

But point of this post: I am tired of winning on paper, and of talking heads' snarky cheap shots. I want wins and respect in gametime. Do our talking on the field.

I agree 100%

You raised an eyebrow with me, as I wondered how many 1st round picks actually start Week 1. As usual, google is a b**** and I get apple pie recipes instead.

I did find this which is very interesting as it breaks down success rate by position. Obviously not answering your question as to whether it correlates to success. I'm guessing Woofer was just making a matter of fact statement that came off as sour grapes. At the end of the day, he's right in the fact that you have a much slimmer chance of a rookie starting, week one, without a first round pick. "Troubling"? Not in the least.

I would say that most teams expect to start their first rounder week 1.

Second is a maybe, or a contributor, and anything else is a unexpected bonus.

KC started a couple of rookies on their oline a couple years ago, after they did a wholesale changeout.

That worked out for them.

The old adage is that starting a rookie will cost your team a game at some point in the season, but now I am praising George Allen.

Success rate is very position dependent... and OL dwarfs all others. But I get your point.

I think, in most cases, it's easier for good teams to start rookies. Strong system, mistakes not usually as devastating, leadership on the field.

The very idea of the draft is to try and get quality players that can become foundational players for your team on cheap contracts. You can sign first rounders to a fifth year extension. Joe Thomas was a first rounder. Chubb was a second rounder. The cream is there for those who can identify and draft them. In the case of the Browns they overall haven't been very good at that. So that part of the conversation is certainly worthy of discussion. But those 1st round draft picks are one of the, if not the most valuable asset an NFL team has in terms of acquiring top tier talent on the cheap.

Yet at the same time your team will never sustain any long term success with out a franchise QB. That is the most valuable asset a team can have in regards to a player on the field.

Whether such a trade is worth those draft picks it dependent on the outcome. Only time will provide the answer to that one.

The writing is on the wall for Schwartz probably not making the team as a WR. With Ford due to miss some time, perhaps we could do something similar to what we did with Felton and give him some RB time. I think he'd get to focus more on ball security there practice-wise, which it seems he could use. Supposedly, the transition from college to pros at RB is one of the "easier" positions, and Schwartz could perhaps be a mismatch for defenders there.

No, we've known in preseason in years past where our liabilities were, and then the pundits acted all surprised when those things were our downfall.

We didn't address DLine or WR's several years in a row and they were consistently a problem. Then, last year, we began addressing these things and this year we hit them hard.

Where the next deficiencies are will be a case of being relative to how much we've built this stuff up and where injuries hit, but it is a fairly complete roster at this point, so it is FINALLY difficult to tell where our weaknesses are.

Not that you owed me an explanation but by giving more of your reasoning I definitely understand more clearly.

I think I addressed part of this in my post to mac. The Browns hoarded a lot of money towards the cap year after year in order to invest it when they felt the time was right. When they signed watson they now feel they have the QB that may give them an opportunity to compete to win a SB. So spend it they did.

I should never have stated that in seasons past it wasn't more obvious what the teams weaknesses and liabilities were. It most certainly was. So we agree there. So as it stands, we don't know what they may or may not be as of now until games are played.

https://www.brownsnation.com/espn-analyst-reveals-rankings-for-browns-roster-this-season/

Interesting this guy ranks the roster as #5 overall.

Or as your own link says....

I think Anthony Schwartz had a good game and I could see him making the roster, this time, it's not his fault they drafted him 4 rounds "udfa" too early, and I think he's better today than Austin and probably Harley too, at least.

and he got robbed of that catch he caught tonight being called a no catch, that was a catch, the ball never hit the ground.

Coaches don't throw go routes, boo.

I think York's days might be numbered

York the FG kicker...
But if he has a low percentage it is a great reason/excuse for head coach to go for it again on 4th down instead of taking the 3 points like he should, which results in the head coach costing you points
game after game,
in the first half. n.t.i.t.f.h. Negative, three, in, the, first, half,

I like the starting roster with the exception of DT. It may seem odd to read that at first, BUT DT is the one position group where the "starters" rarely play much more than 50% of the snaps. We need (4) guys there that can play almost an equal amount of snaps. We've got (2) guys at DT who are proven and not too old or too inexperienced...just right.

But after those (2) guys you could put their names in a hat and pull out (2) others and I don't think we'd know the difference. We know that Ika isn't getting cut...so pull his name out of the hat for now. Then we know that Elliott has $1.5MM guaranteed that he recently signed. So the 2nd (2) "starters" will be a rookie and most-likely a young, vet DT that has continuously NOT played well or developed. I keep reading that we will deploy a bigger DE at DT on obvious passing downs...so that's comforting...but why must we settle for/with a guy at #4 DT who is just not a good player?

I like the starting LBs well-enough and prefer TakiTaki over A Walker...JOK is still a prove-it guy for me. The backups are...meh. With the concern I have at DT ^ I don't know if these LBs are the right group...or what we can do about it. If we had another LEGIT DT I could be made Ok with the LBs. I don't think any of these guys are "special". This is an easy group to upgrade.

It feels like we have an embarrassment of riches at DE. We arguably have (4) starters and at least one other backup-worthy guy there. Again...maybe the DE-at-DT on passing downs will make that overall DT group work.

The only thing I don't care-for in the backfield is what they are doing - or not doing - in the slot. I don't know why Newsome got pigeon-holed there last year, but it never seemed right. And no...I don't have a better idea for what to do there. I'm curious to see how the slot plays out and to see how the CBs put their money where their mouths are with a press-man scheme.

The weirdness at QB in Berea continues...just in a different form. How Mond is on this team (was and that still is) is beyond me...as is why Dobbs got the deal he did. They are both PS guys. DTR is better than either one by a long shot.

We went from (3) pretty-good RBs at this time last year to (1) this year. We need to quit screwing around here and find a backup to Chubb. I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I think Ford should be viewed as RB3 and we need to find a legit RB2...asap. Old guy...young guy...K Hunt...I don't care.

We are set at TE with (2) guys who are starter quality. The days of (3) TE sets are likely over. If Bryant and "pick-one" are the (4) there we should be fine. None of these guys are special.

We have a lot of bodies at WR...some intriguing guys...but only (1) is special...looks like Moore may make it (2) special guys. It seems like we brought in 6-8 guys who are/were always battling for (1) spot. Cooper, Moore, PJ, Tillman, Bell are making this team. I hatehatehate burning a roster spot on a KR.

The OL is - as it probably should be - almost a forgotten group. For the starters, the middle is very good and the edges can be shaky...but are good when healthy...again (5). Harris is getting all the shots in the world and there is a picture of Drew Forbes next to the slang term of 'Bad Penny'...he just keeps coming back...not unlike Gossett. I can't imagine the FO letting Wypler get away...D Jones (6) isn't going anywhere and Hudson (7) isn't a turd like some people seem to think. I think it's Harris v Wypler for C2 (8) and Dunn/Martin/Forbes for G3 & G4 (9th & 10th).

For STs we have a P and LS, but likely need a K.

I think we need a better HC.

Just my $.02

MoreForYouCleveland
@MoreForYou_CLE
#Browns are signing RB Jordan Wilkins, per
@AaronWilson_NFL

Well G. Delpit did not play, and I had not heard why, then I heard he was excused for a college graduation ceremony, so, Whew.
well at safety if they keep five that includes D. Bell and R. Hickman.

Dobbs traded to the Cards. Didn’t see that coming this morning.

The Cleveland Browns and Arizona Cardinals have agreed to the following trade:
Browns receive:
2024 5th round pick
Cardinals receive:
QB Joshua Dobbs
2024 7th round pick
Dobbs was active but did not play in the first 11 games for the Browns in 2022.
In 2024, the Browns currently have one pick in round two, one pick in round three, two picks in round five, two picks in round six and one pick in round seven.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/browns-trade-joshua-dobbs-to-cardinals

Complete overhaul of DT position- enough said. Kicker, reported 6 for 6 today- if we lose a game due to missed makeable FGs he could be toast, win games with missed FGs, he probably still on team due to youth, strong leg, draft choice.....time will tell.

-->10 x OL
LT Wills
LG Bitonio
OC Pocic
RG Teller
RT Conklin
T Hudson
T Jones*
OC/OG Wypler*
OG Dunn
OC Harris

--> 7 x WR
Cooper
Moore
Jones (DPJ)
Tillman*
D. Bell
Watson Jr.
Grant

-->2 x QB
Watson
Robinson* (DTR)

3 x TE
Njoku
Akins
Bryant (IR?)
(Likely to be a position of interest on the waver wire and cuts.)

-->3 x RB
Chubb
J. Ford
Felton

= 25 on offense

-->5 x DE
Garrett
Smith
Obo
McGuire*
Wright (IR)

-->4 x DT
Tomlinson
Harris
Ika*
Elliott
Hurst (after Wright is placed on the IR)

-->6 x LB
Takitaki
JOK
Walker
Fields
Kunaszyk
Diabate*

-->6 x CB
Ward
Newsome
Emerson
Green
Mitchell*
M. Ford

-->4 x S
Thornhill
Delpit
McLeod
Hickman*
(D'A. Bell has a better chance at making it through waivers to get him to the PS)

= 25 on defense

51-53 > ST
(*) Rookies

After his play yesterday I would have just left him in KC.

2020 and
202I may have been better,

200I may have been better, and
two thousand seven gets an honorable mention, but it's not that important to argue one way or another.

The Roster,

J Wills
Bitonio
E. Pocic
W. Teller
J. Conklin...

D. Jones, M Dunn, and L. Wypler, 8,

D. Watson
D. T.R 2


A Cooper,
E Moore
D.P.J.
Ced Tillman 4

D Njoku,
J Akins 2

N Chubb
D Felton 2 that's I8 on offense


O. Okoronkwo
S Harris
D Tomlinson
M Garrett
s Itka
z Smith Have to keep I Thomas I say too but , can't let him get away, too good.
that's 6

s Taki Taki,
A Walker
J.O.K
Tony Fields II 4

D. Ward
G Newsome
M Emmerson 3

Delpit
McLeod
Thornhill 3 That's I6 on defense

That's only 34,+3 sp teams, you could bring 2 new kickers in to try out Easy.

good luck Anthony

My 53

QBs
Watson
DTR

RBs
Chubb
Ford
Strong
Guy not yet on roster. We need a 4th because of Ford’s injury

WRs
Cooper
Moore
DPJ
Tillman
Bell
Goodwin

TEs
Njoku
Adkins
Mitchell-Paden? I want to say it’s Bryant but I have no idea why he is not practicing.

Oline
Wills
Bitonio
Posic
Teller
Conklin
Hudson
Jones
Dunn
Wypler
Harris- possible trade bait

Dline
Garrett
Z Smith
Okoronkwa
Wright
MacGuire
Tomlinson
S. Harris
Hurst
Elliott
Ika

LBs
Takitaki
Walker
JOK
Fields
Adams

Cornerbacks
Ward
Newsome
Emerson
Mitchell
Ford
Green. Not happy with his play but didn’t see anyone better. Possible cut from somewhere?

Safety
Thornhill
Delpit
McLeod
Bell

Special Teams
Kicker. Not on roster
LS Hughlett
P Bojorquez

Kunaszyk injury
Bryant injury

I would like to see either Diabate or Hickman stick. Maybe if we trade Nick Harris and only keep 9 oline. Ika was also injured but I haven’t read how bad. If he is ok I’d cut Elliot but unfortunately I think he’s safe.

You're pretty spot on, P. I agree with hoping we keep Diabate ... but you won't be too far off

Something I was just made aware of is that Diabate will most likely make the roster over Adams because they can get a verbal agreement with him to terminate his contract and bring him back as soon as they put Kunaszyk on IR.

I see us carrying more than 6 WR.. I don't see how Bell makes it over Watkins.. Bell has done nothing other than be drafted by this FO

I'll be quite surprised if the Browns keep 7 WR on the roster. They may initially in the cut to 53, but the roster is very fluid the week or so after finals cuts.

I cannot fathom Berry releasing another 3rd round WR draft pick in favor of an UDFA after having released Schwartz.

If nothing else, I hope another team signs Watkins to the 53 man roster upon his release, he seems to have earned it and it's fun to see hard work rewarded.

If we are going to go mostly 3 WR, as has been opined, then 7 isn't too many. We'll see.

I can’t see Diabate not making the 53. He’s flashed too much and if we try to PS him, surely he’ll be claimed.

I agree on Bell.

I agree with Lead, he has shown very little, but after 1 year isn't the time to cut a player, just like last year wasn't the time to cut Schwartz.

We talk about player development alot on this board, but it sure seems like some don't want to give the time for that to happen. If Bell is a ghost this year, he gets cut next year.

I can see 7 WRs only if we keep 3 RBs instead of 4

The leash being given to these guys is ridiculous:

Felton - WR? No...KR/PR? Nope...RB? Not.

Elliott - 0,1,3 T? Nah. New scheme? Nope.

York - Kickers that can't kick the ball straight are the only thing more maddening than a WR with 'iffy' HANDS.

Harris - Too small for C...awful at G...why pickup Wypler if Harris is any good?

Mond - Burned a spot on the 53 all year last year. What in the world did he show in practice last year?

Togiai - Big, strong-in-the-weightroom...can't get it done.

Forbes - Will that guy EVER get and stay on the field?

Schwartz

Dobbs

That up there ^ reeks of FO-ego over player-talent.

I simply don't get the premise of this argument.

Arguably, there has been no GM more aggressive the past few years to replace starters (often time brought in by him via FA or the draft) from the prior year than Berry. He replaced the interior line in one offseason. He signed JJ3 and then cut him a couple years later, then signed Thornhill. He cut Troy Hill after one year of a four-year contract. He drafted Harris, then replaces him/extends Pocic after Harris got injured and didn't event have a chance to reclaim the starting role. These are just a few examples. I don't get the argument that late round picks still around for depth purposes, having no further chance as a starter (outside of injuries), is an ego-thing. And that's not to say some of the late-round guys drafted will still be on the roster after cuts.

I pretty much agree Willie.

I would say i understand the dilemma York presents and not wanting to cut him. I'd also say Mond is the 3rd stringer. I don't know that you are going to find any better, or that it even matters other than you need a 3rd string QB.

Next year DTR will have a season under his belt. We can then draft another QB to replace Mond. Just keep that 3rd string job filled with a rookie every other year. Sooner or later will will get an offer for DTR that we will want to take.

This morning on the "Ultimate Cleveland show" Phil Dawson was the guest.

It was interesting. He basically said "chill."

His comments about kickers were all inclusive. It covered everything from the mental to physical preparation.

Dawson. Said his approach was not mental. No meditation. No calming mantra.

He never stopped with the physical preparation. That is what calmed him.

Mentally he always felt that all he tried to do was live another day on the roster. You are going to miss. What you can control is your next kick.

This is from 6 months ago. Things have obviously changed/gotten worse.

Yep All anybody can really control 100% is attitude, preparation, and focus.

thats kind of my take on Watkins.. He lead the nfl in preseason. Thats not nothing. And with Grant going down and I'm not sure I want to put my eggs in a 32 year old basket with blood clots in goodwin

Peen mentioned player development and its a good note, but I ask this.. Who on this team has gotten better from the time we've drafted under stefanski? I can't name a single one. I can tell you just from preseason alone the defense looks to be much improved under JS, I'm curious to see how guys like Takitaki and newsome/ward/elliot/delpit/emerson do this year. Some coaches can get the most out of players. Stefanski hasn't shown to be that kind of coach yet. He's going to have to be for us to take that next step.

Patriots-Browns trade grades: RB Pierre Strong Jr. traded to Cleveland in exchange for OT Tyrone Wheatley Jr.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft...d-in-exchange-for-ot-tyrone-wheatley-jr/

JMO. If we have another losing season this year, I would think KS is in serious trouble. There is too much talent on this roster to not have a winning record although we are in, IMO, the toughest division in the league not to mention the most physical. That's why KS has to do something about York. Too many games are going to come down to a FG and we don't have a reliable kicker. Also, we have a DC that has HC experience and would be a prime candidate if KS job security becomes an issue.

I think if we start 1-3 KS is in trouble

KS has input but not authority.

Ultimately the decision is Berry's.

I'm not saying AB sucks or should be fired...but his/their comments about 'competition' and such take a big hit when looking at those ^ examples.

Surprised by this move. I thought he was a lock to make the roster.

And today is his birthday. Ouch.

It feels like this is one of those cut...winkwink...wait....re-sign.

IMO he and Martin looked like our (2) best backup Gs.

I doubt he gets through waivers.

that's not a good move IMO. He's better than Wyplier

j/c:

Was listening to CBD moments ago and Zegura had the opinion that the FO might keep two kickers on the roster. Essentially saying the FO still really likes York and know he would not clear waivers to be added to the PS. It will be interesting to see if that happens.

Well scratch that idea....




I hope they already have the replaced lined up.

Hopkins.

good move

It had to be done. They couldn't go into Week 1 with him razzled. I think they hope to add him to the PS.

maybe York makes it to the PS, but I agree it had to be done

It's why I mentioned that people shouldn't have been so convinced about "coach speak" when they were publicly supporting York. It's what every coach does. They always support the players on the roster, until they aren't on the roster. I think everyone who understood that felt pretty sure this move was coming at some point.

Yes, this move had to be made for reasons I stated on an earlier post.

now lets hope that Hopkins makes his first kick LOL

Unfortunately it did have to be made.

The Browns cannot afford to have everybody praying that Cade can make an xtra point.

Honestly I was not a fan of drafting a kicker. I just don't believe in that. Kickers are out there. They are mostly free agents.

They are hired legs. Get a guy who can make a high percent of 45 and under. 45 to 50 a small drop. 50+ 50%.

They wanted a long term big leg. They took a chance on a guy who was a big time college kicker. It didn't work out. Not a big deal unless you don't see it and move on.

Who is Hopkins?

OK...just saw on the other thread about Dustin Hopkins.

You'll always have this, Cade....

York's big leg makes this move troublesome. This front office and coaching staff could not afford for York to lose games for them. But, if he ever figures out how to be a 90% to 95% kicker inside of 50 yards he could be a great kicker some day making 60+ yard kicks for some team. I would not be surprised is a team that is in rebuild does not pick him up and try to develop him.

true but on the flip side, you maybe don't wait until preseason is over to bring another one in. But Kudos for them not waiting until he lost us a couple games

Just cut bait and move on. It would be disastrous if York was on the PS, Hopkins pulls his hamstring again, York gets called to the gameday roster and proceeds to cost them team a game.

could you imagine the hate he would get lol

The FO has - or will - cut every backup G that camp into camp this year once Dunn is released. This has got to be the 'release and re-sign game' to get over the initial 53.

Gossard was the first to go and Forbes is out with an injury designation. I predict Dunn and Martin will be signed after the first-on-the-53 guys hit IR. No way do they think Wypler AND Harris could suffice as the backup OGs. I think manipulating the roster like this is pretty darn smart.

Guys I think we'd like to get to IR after the initial 53:

A Wright
I Thomas
J Kunasaycxhz!

__________________________________

D Ward (maybe)
H Bryant ?

That's a lot of guys to save a seat for.

It might not even matter if the Browns want York back, he might prefer a fresh start with a new team.

I agree on Dunn. I forgot he wasn't subject to Waivers. He and the Browns may already have a handshake deal.

j/c...

Goodwin coming back squeezed Watkins off the roster.

Our Top 4 WR's are set
1. Cooper
2. DPJ
3. Moore
4. Tillman
For #5/6 we are opting to go with Bell and a 32 about to be 33-year-old journeyman who has not offered anything of substance since 2017 in comparison to someone who has had one a heck of a pre-season and is only 25.


this makes sense.

I can only imagine they hope to get him on the PS.

Bad break for Watkins. I understand wanting to go with the proven burner in Goodwin.

The best thing for him will be to get picked up. The best thing for us is he isn't and we can put him on the practice squad. I have a feeling he is more than the yearly flash in the pan receiver that gets everybody excited. I think he can become a pretty good player, but in the end we aren't going to miss him. He wasn't going to get much playtime.

My only real regret is that over time, I think he will be better than David Bell.

Why not? They don't need to learn the playbook. Kicking is very straight forward. It's exactly the same for every team. Two weeks is more than ample time for a kicker to adjust to kicking a ball through the uprights in a different location.

After the draft investment they placed in York I understand why they would wish to give him every opportunity to prove himself before making such a move and I think they made that move at just the right time. They look at things from a business aspect and not an emotional one. I mean it's not like they pulled a Schwartz with York.

Bad break for Watkins, had a fantastic preseason and I really thought had a legit shot at making the roster. Will get picked up by someone else relatively quickly though imo. Shame about York, but dude just was not cutting it anymore and Hopkins does have the better percentages if you will; we shall see.

I think this decision is a clear indicator of the stark difference between how this team is being ran now verses in the past.

Before, I think they would have sided with keeping the younger WR with high potential rather than a 32 year old that has shown limited production over the past four years. And in this case I really wish they would have. I mean Goodwin is a decent WR but it's not as if he's going to light it up. He hasn't caught more than 27 passes in a season or caught for over 400 yards in those past four seasons either.

But he certainly has NFL experience. There is certainly a lot of film on the guy showing him having success against top NFL competition covering him in the secondary. Some actual proof he can compete against the best. That's something they don't have with Watkins.

In years past I think they may very well have went with the young guy with upside rather than stick with a 32 year old with limited potential. But when you're playing for now rather than trying to build a roster for the future, your strategy changes.

this will be yet another dumb move by berry... Goodwin is 32....just coming of blood clots...he should have just been set to pasture, he's not even had a 1k season and he his whole career has been meh. Watkins did everything you want and lead the nfl for the preseason. Just more proof that Berry has zero clue on being able to find receivers. The only decent one in his tenure was Cooper and he was a star before he came here.

I agree with most everything you said. The only difference between Schwartz and York is you can afford to stash that 6th or 7th receiver. You can't do that with a kicker.

I don't think we kept Schwartz too long. He got his 3 camps and 2 seasons to prove himself. I don't think that is unreasonable. It would have been more unreasonable to cut him after 1 season, especially since you can keep a position player around without hurting the team. If we could have kept York around for another season without hurting the team, we would have. Who knows, maybe we still find a way. I'd say the odds are fairly slim he is signed to some other teams roster at this point. Maybe we do stash him on the practice squad to give him another shot next season. I am not saying probably or likely. Just saying maybe.

Watkins is a 25 yr old 6-2/209lb WR led the team in receptions in this 2023 pre-season...


Goodwin did NOTHING for the Browns but try to heal his "blood clots"...plus he's a 5-9, 185 WR who ran 4.27-40 many years ago.


Someone in the Browns front office still has "overwhelming" fascination with 40 times and smallish WRs.

There is a chance that Watkins gets picked up...I hope not !

It's interesting how Schwartz was given 3 seasons
To show how inept he is at WR and Austin Watkins
Showed more in 3 games yet is cut.
Schwartz should have been released after his 1st season

I really don't disagree with your premise here. The only caveat would be that I do think there were times they put Schwartz on the field that his play did hurt the team.

They didn't have the same WR talent on the roster then that they do now. Which makes your comparison non existent.

Like I said...there is SOMEONE in the Browns front office that has an "UNHEALTHY AND OVERWHELMING LOVE" for WRs who smallish with average or
below average ball skills (like catching the damn football) who can run good 40 times.

The Browns front office needs to rid themselves of this or these individuals who are in love with 40 times rather than WRs who can run a pass pattern over the middle and still catch a football.

I thought the Browns were a FOOTBALL TEAM...not some TRACK CLUB.

j/c…

no surprises to me thus far. Hoping Dunn comes back

You mean to tell me Maurice Hurst couldn't make
The final 53 after all the off season hype !!

Hurst and Dunn are likely back after Wright and Kunaszyk get put on IR.

Nice seeing Hurst retained, out of the back DTs....he was the only one that was flashing.

It's 4:12pm and this is the 53 man roster listed on the Browns website: link

Browns' initial 53-man roster by position:

Quarterbacks (2): Dorian Thompson-Robinson, Deshaun Watson

Running backs (3): Nick Chubb, Jerome Ford, Pierre Strong Jr.

Wide receivers (6): David Bell, Amari Cooper, Marquise Goodwin, Elijah Moore, Donovan Peoples-Jones, Cedric Tillman  

Tight ends (3): Jordan Akins, Harrison Bryant, David Njoku

Offensive linemen (9): Joel Bitonio, Jack Conklin, Nick Harris, James Hudson III, Dawand Jones, Ethan Pocic, Wyatt Teller, Jedrick Wills Jr., Luke Wypler

Defensive linemen (9): Jordan Elliott, Myles Garrett, Shelby Harris, Siaki Ika, Isaiah McGuire, Ogbo Okoronkwo, Za'Darius Smith, Dalvin Tomlinson, Alex Wright

Linebackers (7): Matthew Adams, Mohamoud Diabate, Tony Fields II, Jordan Kunaszyk, Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, Sione Takitaki, Anthony Walker Jr.

Defensive backs (11): D'Anthony Bell, Grant Delpit, M.J. Emerson Jr., Mike Ford Jr., A.J. Green, Ronnie Hickman, Rodney McLeod, Cameron Mitchell, Greg Newsome II, Juan Thornhill, Denzel Ward 

Specialists (3): Corey Bojorquez, Dustin Hopkins, Charley Hughlett

The strategy does change. We aren't looking so much at what a player can do for us in 2-3 years. It's more about who can help in the next game.
Goodwin still has the Jets and that is something our other receivers don't have. If Goodwin can get a safety leaning his way over the top, it opens a lot of the middle.

Watson has a strong arm. It doesn't hurt to have a receiver who can go and run under a deep ball.

Glad to see this. I want to see more of his game. Any feel for his upside, Dawgs?

Glad to see Hickman made it! His flashes impressed me. Seems pretty calm and steady. I had a sense we were better prepared responsibly ready to play D. We have had a scoring defense. I am impressed with their demeanor, seen some lightning, waiting on a thundering swagger.

jc...

Andrew Berry cut Austin Watkins, the Browns best WR of 2023 preseason ...a young receiver who led the Browns in receptions, yards and touchdowns in preseason. Watkins is a 25 yr old, 6-2/209lb WR with excellent hands and proved to be durable.

Goodwin has done NOTHING for the Browns in the preseason, but try to heal his "blood clots"...plus he's a going to 33 yrs old in Nov. and is smallish in size, 5-9, 185 WR who ran 4.27-40 many years ago.
Goodwin catches about half the passes targeted toward him. Goodwin's injury history over the last 2 yrs is below:


MARQUISE GOODWIN INJURY HISTORY (2021-2022)

Shoulder & wrist strain....Week 15 (2022)....Games missed-2

Groin strain....Week 8 (2022)....Games missed-1

Back strain....Week 4 (2022)....Games missed-0

Knee sprain....Week 4 (2022)....Games missed 1

Foot injury....Week 12 (2021)....Games missed 3


Hopefully Andrew Berry will get lucky and get Watkins on the practice squad. Berry open for criticism due to this move. Let's hope it works out ok for the Browns..!

When will we know if Watkins cleared waivers and we can put him on our PS?

Overall, no huge surprises as far as the 53 goes. Thought Watkins would, but other than that no real shocks imo.

I don't know if that would be excessive. I don't hear you complaining about Hospital ward missing multiple games a season

The bottom line is it was determined that Goodwin would give us more help this year. I will also add that it isn't over just yet. I liked Watkins as well. It may not be over for his return.

I'll also add that i don't think Goodwin is who bumped Watkins off the roster. I think it was Ventrone and or Schwartz. I think it came down to Diabate or Watkins. In the end it was determined that Diabate was going to have a bigger impact. I don't think Watkins was going to help special teams and the D. Both areas that needed to improve.

solid point!

Ward is not part of the WR subject matter being discussed, so why would I include him?

You want to start a Ward thread, go for it...btw, I'm not in love with Ward either.

Any way we try to justify Berry's "boneheaded" move to cut Austin Watkins and while keeping the aging, often injured Goodwin who's catch % is around 50%...iow, he catches about half the passes that are thrown to him over his 9 yr career.

Andrew Berry has an issue where he falls in love with some players even if those players suck on the field. I say forget the analytics and stop watch and put more emphasis on a player's performance on the field.

I'm also very concerned about the quality of the Browns OLine depth...but that's just me.

So, I skipped almost all of preseason. But I would like to know how everyone feels about our chances at this point?

lots of injuries 7-10
Some Injuries 10-7
no injuries 12-5

The d might be special. Hope so

Looks like most of the draft choices made it.

Tillman, Jones, McGuire, Jones, DTR, Mitchell. Congratulations

Looks like a couple of UDFA made the 53.

Diabate and Hickman. No surprise there, but I was rooting for Watkins as well.

Teams reshuffle the practice squad, so we may see an unknown player there. Derek Anderson wound up a Brown that way.

Yep, no telling on the PS. We will try to get some of our cuts back and you never know who we have our eye on from other teams. Probably mostly guys we had on previous years draft boards who we never got a chance to sign.

Tough calls have to be made. Goodwin brings the speed a team likes to have to help stretch things on the vertical. In the end I don't think it was Goodwin or any of the other receivers who bounced Watkins off the 53. I think it was Diabate or Hickman. Probably more Hickman. Diabate got a pretty sizeable signing bonus to sign with us as a UDFA. I think it was 5th round money. In the end both of those guys will be able to make immediate contributions on special teams for sure and possibly the D as a whole. Both of those areas needed more help than the WR did. At best Watkins was only going to see very limited action this season. I also think the teams feels that Watkins has the best chance to clear waivers. The guy is already 25 which is nearing that barrier age of 30 for wide receivers.

We have to remember, our philosophy, or roster strategy has changed. Gone are the days where projecting guys 2-3 years down the road have taken a back seat to how can a player help todays team? That's what happens when you establish a pretty solid roster and are looking at winning today more than developing players for the future.

Good points Peen.

Keep in mind, when the roster and depth gets stronger the roster cuts become harder to make. Especially when it comes to the end of the depth chart. There are various reasons to keep a player over another. Examples: salary cap implications, vet leadership or experience over youth (or that can be reversed depending on the team building scenario), versatility of the player.

I’m not saying it is right or wrong regarding certain players, but you need versatility at some positions. The more versatile the playbook can be the more different looks and defensive keys the defense has to account pre-snap and substitutions.



Our receivers:
Cooper 6-1 211lbs
DPJ 6-2 204
Tillman 6-3 215
Bell 6-1 212
Moore 5-10 180
Goodwin 5-9 185

I’m not seeing all these “smallish” WRs on the roster. I’m seeing a WR roster with a lot of different skill sets. These WRs specialize in different areas of the whole the field; short, crossing/underneath, medium, and deep.

Soon we will see how they will perform on the field compared on paper.

IMO when you look at receivers you look at them individually and then spatially inside the offense.

How will the passing game attack the field? Included in the receiver unit is the TE's.

The 2023 offensive scheme is no longer beginning with the base set 12 personnel. We are not going to be what we were before. Line up with two or three TE's, under center using play action. The base set will be 11 personnel out of shotgun.

That means 4 receivers in space. Cooper and DPJ outside, Moore in the slot. Njoku at TE. It will act like a defense in quarters. Each receiver will attack an area of the field.

We will also go empty backfield with four wideouts where Goodwin goes vertical.

The 2023 Browns will be a passing offense. DW will run the offense and have the ability to call plays at the line. We will also use DW as a designated runner with RPO options.

DW will act like a point guard and distribute the ball. Ideally the attack will be diverse with even distribution. Nick will get plenty of touches but they will come in different ways. He will get screens. He will get checkdowns on delays. We will also incorporate plays under center where we will use play action and rollouts. Not unlike the old plays with Baker.

This offense IMO will be what KS has always wanted to run but could not. He adjusted to fit the quarterback he had to work with.

DW is not limited in any way. He is like the queen on a chessboard.

It should be fun to watch.

hopefully Dunn and Hurst are back after injury designations .... and let's hope York and Watkins pass through unclaimed

If we are to win this season we to get rid of York but I think we will put him on the practice squad cause I heard in camp he made 99% of his FG tries.

I expect to see Dunn back as he is the 6th man.

Agreed Bone.

Your post is a great breakdown of the point I was trying to make.

And what “should happen” is those weapons should cause issues (confusion) with the different levels of the defense. Does the safety roll to one side? How good are the other teams nickel and dime? Do they switch or stay with their man? Is a LB exposed to a WR/TE? All things the receivers and QB need to decipher.

Why did you put blood clots in quotes?

Since the 86/87 season this season offers the best hope we have had.

It should be really fun to watch because of their "potential."

It still has to happen on the field. We all know how good the division and the AFC is.

As a fan it is exciting. I am kind of in fan heaven. The Braves enter September as the best team in baseball. I don't miss a game. We face the Dodgers this weekend with the best record in the NL on the line. Plus the MVP race between two Braves Acuna and Olson and two Dodgers Betts and Freeman.

Post season baseball on the horizon.

The Browns beginning the 2023 season. We open against the division favorites the Bengals at home. Let's get ready to Rumble.

I am glad we face the Bengals. If we want to be the best. We have to beat the best. I want the competition.

It would be super cool to come out firing and take the Bengals down.

So in your wisdom you have concluded that Watkins playing against second and third string NFL players, some of which I am sure were also cut this week, means more than a body of evidence against top NFL talent. Got it.

Schwartz may be back indeed lol

Fred Greetham
@FredGreetham9
·
2h
#Browns are expected to put together their 16-player practice squad this afternoon. Many players recently released are expected to return.

Oobs...you ask, why did I put "blood clots" in quotes?...to "emphasize" the nature of injury that kept Goodwin sidelined for the entire preseason..Goodwin did manage to overcome this injury/condition just in time for the regular season. Hopefully Goodwin can stay healthy and contribute enough to help my Browns win enough games to make the playoffs.

I heard that alot too, but then you stuff like this:

good news on Watkins!

and that story on York is WILD

who??

Waiver claims.

No Brown cut was claimed.

so long Cade! good luck

He's a CB who was an undrafted rookie the Chiefs had signed back in May.

Kahlef Hailassie CB Western Kentucky | NFL Draft Profile & Scouting Report

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Kahlef-Hailassie-S-Oregon

He had one great looking int. during the preseason with the Chiefs.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/8ywaKPFt0cE

leatherwood is a lottery ticket with Callahan

Mary Kay Cabot
@MaryKayCabot
·
39s
#Browns signed DE Isaiah Thomas to the practice squad, source says

Yep. A flyer on a former first rounder with zero risk.

Mary Kay Cabot
@MaryKayCabot
·
2m
#Browns G Michael Dunn is actually signing back to the practice squad for now, not the active roster yet

Perhaps because they think Alex Wright is closer to being healthy than originally imagined?

Just a quick log in -

Was looking for rosster news and have been listening to Qunicy Carter breakdown ....



I think this is one of the best rosters we've had since 1999. It is complemented by a defensive coach who I believe to be the best D co-ordinator we've had since 1999. Not sure I agree with the take on back up QB love - and AVP being dismissed ... I think the love of the back up QB is wholly, completely tied to the level of performance by the starting QB ... any year, any starting QB and any backup... we'll see. I think it now all rests with DW and Stefanski - and of course injuries.

Excited to be close to football and STILL no expectations other than acknowledging we have the talent be good if it all comes together.

that could be. I'm surprised Dunn didn't just try to go elsewhere then ... hopefully he makes his way onto the official 53

Browns, OL Alex Leatherwood Agree To Practice Squad Deal

August 30th, 2023 at 12:09pm CST by Sam Robinson
link
Barely two years after becoming a surprise first-round pick, Alex Leatherwood has been waived by two teams. The Bears joined the Raiders in bailing on the Alabama alum, dropping him earlier this week.

The Browns will attempt to salvage the former No. 17 overall pick. Leatherwood is joining Cleveland’s practice squad, NFL.com’s Tom Pelissero tweets. This will be Leatherwood’s third team in three seasons, though he is no longer attached to the first-round contract that went from Las Vegas to Chicago.

Despite his extensive struggles to translate his game to the NFL, Leatherwood started all 17 games — at right tackle and right guard — for a playoff-bound Raiders team as a rookie. After Jon Gruden’s staff moved Leatherwood from tackle to guard quickly, Josh McDaniels’ group shifted him back to tackle during his second NFL offseason. Leatherwood did not show enough to impress the McDaniels-Dave Ziegler regime, which waived him after failed trade efforts.

A mononucleosis bout began Leatherwood’s Bears tenure on a down note, and he only ended up playing in four games (32 offensive snaps). The Browns have a set offensive line, one of the game’s best, and employ top-line O-line coach Bill Callahan. The former Raiders HC has settled back into a role as an O-line instructor. Callahan turned down the chance to interview for the Jets’ OC position this offseason, and the longtime assistant will attempt what could be a difficult reclamation project with Leatherwood.

Brad Stainbrook
@StainbrookNFL
·
4m
Source: #Browns are releasing CB A. J. Green


don't love that

After picking up Kahlef Hailassie, a corresponding move had to be made and it was going to come from that position group. It was either him or Ford, and apparently the team like Ford for his ST work. Maybe he comes back onto the PS....

AJ Green was BAAD all preseason.. jersey should have said turnstile

Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
·
3m
#Bills will sign former #Texans LB Christian Kirksey to the practice squad, via
@RapSheet

I agree. He was late at everything. Not surprised he got cut.

It looks like we got back all the players we wanted too plus a few extra signings. I think we did fine.

Of all the moves, this is the one I'm most pleased with. I thought he had a great camp/preseason and adds depth on the interior line.

PJ Walker is on the PS? I like him over Mond

Our front office knows what they are doing. They had a good feel that Watkins was going to clear waivers and we did a good job of cutting guys and getting the ones we wanted back. I don't know of any we cut who got picked up that we probably wanted back.

I think the Leatherwood signing has nothing but upside. There is no downside to it. We aren't counting on him to start or be a top back-up. I'd still like to see Dunn back on the active roster. He has proven to be a quality back-up who can start and the team doesn't miss much when he plays.

There are still moves to be made. I still think the team is still trying to clear harris via trade.

That really doesn't make sense. Why did you put empasize in quotes?

Come on man...he was faking "Blood Clots". LOL A few "lousy" blood colts shouldn't keep you off the field....lol

The roster is damn close to set. There could be a move or two at the bottom of the roster but we're going with what we have.

Myself, I am at peace with it.

I don't know what else we could have done given the full picture. All the areas that were a concern have in some way been addressed. York had to go and we got a guy who looks reliable.

It is almost like last year was preparation for this year.

I don't know how it will end but all the plans that were put into place when the trade for DW was made. Are now in place.

It feels like this team is now the team that Berry and Stefanski wanted.

That is one ignorant statement.

LOl...I don't type in purple.

We all have our opinions.......I was pleased with the interview the KICKER gave- experienced, noted Cleveland is tough to kick in.....looks forward to meaningful games. Hope he talks to Phil soon......GO Browns!!!

I personally feel that Demetric Felton would give the Browns a better chance to win than the
current state of the player J. Ford,
and than P. Strong, as a #2 Rb.

Plus Felton was experienced in the return game.

I personally feel that Demetric Felton would give the Browns a better chance to win than the
current state of the player J. Ford,
and than P. Strong, as a #2 Rb.

Plus Felton was experienced in the return game.

Felton sucks

this was my sentiment too. He gets the least out of situations

I agree on Felton. I saw where the Bengals picked him up.

At this moment, we do not have a backup Guard on the 53 man roster. I hope there is a plan to correct that. I know Dunn is on the PS.

I feel pretty good that Dunn will make it back. We also have guys who can play the position. They might not be the best answer but Harris has played there, Wypler played there this preseason.

Like I said, I expect Dunn back. I still think the team kept both Harris and Elliott with the hope to make some sort of trade. That is just my speculation.

Luke Wylper and Michael Dunn is back on the roster.

I posted this in another thread, but it probably fits better in this thread. The article explains the practice squad rules. There seems to be questions about those rules.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nf...-rules-more-to-know-for-2023/ar-AA1fT4Wh

Glad Dunn is back in the fold

Dov Kleiman
@NFL_DovKleiman
·
3m
#Bills will sign former #Texans LB Christian Kirksey to the practice squad, via
@RapSheet

Mary Kay Cabot
@MaryKayCabot
·
1m
As expected, the #Browns re-signed DT Maurice Hurst and place LB Jordan Kunaszyk (knee) on short-term IR

that's some ugly depth last year

I'm losing track of who is joking about what. My response was an honest question. I read the original post as having ill-intent, and I asked why he was using quotes the way he was.

Thanks for the clarification.