I mostly came to ask about the LB group, what can be done besides wait for camp cuts. I’m not seeing many (any) options at LB that make sense to this team right now and I’m wondering how big a concern it’s going to be. We have 3 viable starter: JOK & Tony Fields at WILL and Anthony Walker at MIKE. JOK played 11 games last year, Walker played 3. Phillips is out and other than Fields I know nothing about the rest of the guys in that group. Any hidden jems in the group? I know Kunaszyk played last year but I can’t remember anything about him. I don’t remember any of their names being prominent during any camp or preseason game chatter.
Aside from LB, what are our most glaring weaknesses? Kicker? I’m actually feeling pretty good about most of the rest of the team but maybe I’m missing something.
I don't put a lot of stock into preseason games but a few things did stand out to me. One is what a LB'ers duties are is based a lot on scheme. What I saw in that preseason game against Washington was that JOK was given latitude to read and react. Not so much an assignment to a player or area of the of the field but more to diagnose the play and react to what he is seeing. In order to make the full use of his skill set I think that's the way he should be used and should have been being used all along. And while he added some bulk during the off season it didn't really seem to impact his speed or reaction time.
It may very well be the scheme in and of itself may prove to be valuable in bringing out the best in the Browns LB'ers and show it hasn't been about being weak at the LB'er position as much as it is about the way they were being used in the past. Time will tell I suppose.
Ahh, you’re right, at SAM. And Adams, though I don’t have any idea about Adams, didn’t watch the Bears. Takitaki never impressed me much but he’s indeed there. Though I think he was another injury last year?
- QB play ... we have the potential to have a good QB, but the verdict is out. We're going to go as Watson goes. He ran well the other night, but it's tough to tell other than that. I'm hesitant to think he'll be what we need him to be.
- Kicking game. York has all of the talent you need, but he's got the yips during games. He's gotta become more consistent 45 and in.
- LB corp. But we knew that coming into the season. We've really done a nice job upgrading the DL in front of them.
- Backup RB. At some point we need someone besides Chubb to give us a spark back there.
With the kicker, I think people get too hung up on FG%. In many cases making even 1-2 more kicks makes the percentage look good enough. Had he made some of the blocked kicks his percentage would look better.
Takitaki was playing some good ball last season until his injury. Solid linebacker, glad we kept him. Dependable tackler, seems smart and besides, my wife giggles whenever the announcers say his name.
Sooner or little we have to give J. Kelly Jr. a real shot. Surely to hell he can pick up a block in pass protection. What’s the problem here? The guy has looked good every time he’s been on the field.
I’m only a little worried about Cade York. My biggest worry about a weakness is our HC and his decisions. Kick the FG when it’s 0-0 in the first quarter, when you’re on the road and facing fourth and goal from the sixth.. I also would like to see Watson running less, just enough to install a fear on the opposing D. Last thing we need is for our $240 million dollar man to get hurt due to some BS RPO.
I am sure we have them. However, it is hard to say what they are because as fans we do not get to really see all that goes on during camp.
Pre-season games have really become exhibition games. They are more for guys that are fighting to make the roster. Starters are protected as much as possible.
Veterans like Cooper, Chubb, Myles, Bitonio, Conklin, Ward they get to ramp up at their pace to be ready for the first game.
Injuries are a fear of every team. Camps used to be way more physical. That has gone out the door. It is all about being healthy.
Teams know injuries will occur so they do all they can to avoid them.
IMO, the fact we haven't given Kelly a shot is all we need to know. I think he lacks some burst and doesn't run north/south enough. I have no idea about his ability to catch the ball out of the backfield though.
Our weakness are the same as its been since berry took over, lack of playmakers on defense, particularly linebackers, no kicker an our depth isn't that great at quite a few positions. I still think Stefanski doing both HC/OC is a weakness because he's not great at either and its a matter of splitting duties and really being invested as a HC and looking at the team as a system. We will see this year, no excuses from Berry/Stefanski. Our drafts have been meh, but we've spent on proven players in FA and bringing in a good DC will help tremendously. Offense is stacked the best its ever been since 99, hell probably even farther back to the kosar days.. So if they falter this year, we will be rebuilding again with nothing to build with. But I actually anticipate a playoff season if we stay healthy. All indications are that the offense really works with Watson/Chubb leading the charge.
Berry and Stefanski have produced more wins than any other HC and GM since Marty.
Quarterback play has been the hump that they have not gone over.
We have talent. DW has to deliver for the team to go anywhere.
Is that possible with the "organization" holding him back? I think, b/c the "org" ,or HC, or whatever it is, couldn't maximize the other @uarterbacks, some regular contributer on here said it best about 2.6 years ago when after a regular or preseason game that in Case Keenum we had found another @uarterback that Head Coach couldn't win with. Then Head coach couldn't win with Jacoby Brisset, but Jacoby was a known commodity with a low ceiling, and a history from indy,
WHOA , That all fits the latest RB they signed.... YIKES
But, back to your offensive philosophy ... and playcalling?... hurting your @uarterbacks game,
that is the real weakness and no amount of adding talent can over trump bad coaching, "nothing overtrumps bad coaching," > we learned that in about... 2006 ish, and that was almost 30 years ago.
Berry and Stefanski have produced more wins than any other HC and GM since Marty.
Would you like to tell us what their record is? Saying they're the best since Marty isn't very high praise. I believe they're exactly two games over .500 at 26-24. I'm not sure that's the mountain I would wish to stand on.
I think a huge weakness is that this team Has been unable to dictate tempo or impose It's will on the other team. When was the last time the Browns truly physically Dominated a team at their level or above their Level? The Browns have had talent. The problem is They never had the attitude of tenacity to make The other team hurt. Too much softness in The roster.
26-24 is also a fact. I'm not saying they're bad or that they haven't been at least somewhat hamstrung by the QB position. I believe they certainly have been. I also think that's a much more convincing argument than saying what your statement strongly implies which is, "They suck less than the incompetent idiots idiots that have been here since Marty left." With the exception of Bill Belichick of course who wasn't here long enough to amass a better record.
I would certainly say it's gotten to the point that it's put up or shut up time and I'm sure we both agree that we hope they put up.
whats also a fact is Dorsey had more to do with it than Berry did.. Until we go to playoffs and make deep runs consistently this staff sucks.. its up to them to prove otherwise..
Dorsey to me was hot and cold. Some big hits with Ward & Chubb in the draft. Traded for Teller. But when you have 4 of the first 36 picks and you blow 2 of them, especially the #1 overall, that speaks volumes.
KS is saying all the things that have to be said in public regarding York.
However, IMO behind the scenes wheels are turning and plans are in place.
Berry cannot begin this season and all that is riding on it (including possibly his job and KS's job). Hanging from the leg of an effing kicker with the yips.
It doesn't matter if York can kick 70 yard field goals in practice. When he cannot make a 40 yarder in a game.
It is mental. It is like sinking the 8 ball with money on the shot. Or, driving balls from the tee at the driving range. Everything is in place. You are drilling the ball. You take it to the first tee and cannot hit it straight.
We don't have that margin for error. The games in the NFL are to close.
There has to be a "Plan B." Every position has a backup. Kicker can not be an exception.
Now that we have a new PK I don't believe we have a glaring weakness. Some say LB but we have decent players there and don't forget we had a DC last season who wasn't playing schemes to our D players strengths and a D-line that couldn't stop the run and made it tougher for our LB's. The key? staying relatively healthy. If DW plays at 75% at the level he was, I think he'll be better than that, he'll be better than any QB we've had since Bernie. There is cause for some legit optimism. JMO
No glaring weakness? It is the Browns, we are headed toward "opening day"
If it weren't for a final second kick, ... that EVEN AFTER, they had the most Dominant first half plus five minutes defensively, against the Carollina @uarterback last year, ... even after that, that if it weren't for a final seconds kick, then you would be looking at about the 24th consecutive opening day loss with one outlier.
so, Can we put "offseason programs inability to get the team ready, or fired up, or in sync enough, or in somehow/someway ready to play a game at the start of the year" as a weakness. A glaring weakness.
Can we put that, there is really Nothing New from the trio of Depo, The GM, and the Head Coach, in 2023, from 2022, as a weakness, they are doing the same thing they have done before, relying on analytics making sure they have the right amount of players on the right amount of contracts and hoping that their in game analytic that will re@uire them, in the best case scenario, to recover an onside kick late in the 4th to get a win, maybe twice, maybe two onside kicks, or, to get that first down on 3rd and inches, when even if they gain 4 yards the refs will now say it's 4th and inches, b/c the Browns Head Coach, can't try anything new, even if ya twist his arm. so, making player contracts... instead of finding recipes' to win individual games. < as a weakness.
Don't have a backup G on the roster...not just poor depth at G...NO depth at G...and no...I do not think that Harris or Wypler can effectively play G. I know Dunn can be called up...but that can only be done (3) times and he could be poached with ease. We are a twisted ankle away from having Harris protect our 1/4 billion $ man;
Didn't really see much (yet) from DW leading to the expectation that he will be back to his elite self;
the eighty five bears didn't, the 03 lions didn't, < that is an example of naming another team, now name another team, 'besides the 202I or 22 Browns' also led by Berry and Depo, that waited until fourteen days before the opener
to realize they didn't have any kicker at all.
when they could have figured it out during the entire offseason,
I think, that no other nfl team in history, that is or was not using these stupid analytics ever did such a bone headed thing, once, let alone twice in 4 years, i.e. Seibert to the Chicago bears guy.
but Berry is apparently above @uestioning that he's all that and a bag of chips as a gm.
the eighty five bears didn't, the 03 lions didn't, < that is an example of naming another team, now name another team, 'besides the 202I or 22 Browns' also led by Berry and Depo, that waited until fourteen days before the opener
to realize they didn't have any kicker at all.
when they could have figured it out during the entire offseason,
I think, that no other nfl team in history, that is or was not using these stupid analytics ever did such a bone headed thing, once, let alone twice in 4 years, i.e. Seibert to the Chicago bears guy.
but Berry is apparently above @uestioning that he's all that and a bag of chips as a gm.
Maybe they knew what they wanted to do sooner, but were waiting for a guy to get cut or the price to go down. Or they were hoping York would get it sorted out between the ears because he's a talented kid.
We got a historically above average kicker (% wise) for a future 7th. Much ado about nothing.
The '85 Bears had a rookie kicker that missed 6 FGs and then went 28/41 in '86. Just saying.
Don't have a backup G on the roster...not just poor depth at G...NO depth at G...and no...I do not think that Harris or Wypler can effectively play G. I know Dunn can be called up...but that can only be done (3) times and he could be poached with ease. We are a twisted ankle away from having Harris protect our 1/4 billion $ man;
Didn't really see much (yet) from DW leading to the expectation that he will be back to his elite self;
name another team, 'besides the 202I or 22 Browns' also led by Berry and Depo, that waited until fourteen days before the opener
to realize they didn't have any kicker at all.
when they could have figured it out during the entire offseason,
I think, that no other nfl team in history, that is or was not using these stupid analytics ever did such a bone headed thing, once, let alone twice in 4 years, i.e. Seibert to the Chicago bears guy.
but Berry is apparently above @uestioning that he's all that and a bag of chips as a gm.
In history? History hell, it happened this year......
Veteran Kicker Nick Folk Excited About His New Opportunity with the Titans
Don't have a backup G on the roster...not just poor depth at G...NO depth at G...and no...I do not think that Harris or Wypler can effectively play G. I know Dunn can be called up...but that can only be done (3) times and he could be poached with ease. We are a twisted ankle away from having Harris protect our 1/4 billion $ man;
Didn't really see much (yet) from DW leading to the expectation that he will be back to his elite self;
Don't have a backup G on the roster...not just poor depth at G...NO depth at G...and no...I do not think that Harris or Wypler can effectively play G. I know Dunn can be called up...but that can only be done (3) times and he could be poached with ease. We are a twisted ankle away from having Harris protect our 1/4 billion $ man;
Didn't really see much (yet) from DW leading to the expectation that he will be back to his elite self;
Have a HC who is simply not HC material;
Won't be 'ready' for the start of the season.
I actually kind of want to see Hudson inside.
this would be a welcomed experiment
I think so too...I just wish he would have played some G in pre-season if that is part of the 'plan'. Maybe he is the poor man's Hubbard at the moment? A T who can play G?
They can only call up Dunn (3) times before they have to move him to the 53 or release him and he could be poached at anytime. It feels like an unnecessary gamble with the investment at QB. Wypler is the heir-apparent at C and Harris isn't a G. Who will be the interior line guys on punts and field goals? Wypler? Harris? Hudson?
There are no perfect rosters. This one looks pretty good. It's "unfortunate" that we can't have pro bowlers backing up our pro bowlers. One of the benefits of Callahan is that he can make no name backups passable linemen. He did it with Dunn, I expect he'll be able to make it work again between Hudson, Harris, and Wypler if an injury occurs.
There are no perfect rosters. This one looks pretty good. It's "unfortunate" that we can't have pro bowlers backing up our pro bowlers. One of the benefits of Callahan is that he can make no name backups passable linemen. He did it with Dunn, I expect he'll be able to make it work again between Hudson, Harris, and Wypler if an injury occurs.
This no-depth-at-G spot we are in, we did to ourselves. Why is Harris still on the 53 if other than to (maybe) get a draft pick? Get Harris off the 53...get Dunn on the 53...get a guy like Martin to the PS. We could still do that today. New offensive scheme with a QB who likes to run...I dunno man...blocking for that can take time to jell...I'd not be rolling the dice on interior depth with guys who haven't yet demonstrated that they can play there. Just me.
We have 4 OT's and 3C on the roster. One or two of them can slide to guard. I promise that if Bitonio rolls an ankle and has to come out, somebody is going to move in to the position.
Also, we don't know that Dunn isn't going to show up on the roster.
I'd give this maybe a 3 out of 10 on the worry scale.
We have 4 OT's and 3C on the roster. One or two of them can slide to guard. I promise that if Bitonio rolls an ankle and has to come out, somebody is going to move in to the position.
Also, we don't know that Dunn isn't going to show up on the roster.
I'd give this maybe a 3 out of 10 on the worry scale.
I hope you are correct. I think that score goes waaaaay up if Wypler and Harris flank Hughlett on ST snaps...and more-than-doubles if someone snatches Dunn from the PS.
I hope so too. The reality is with a salary cap and wages for the top guys going up, teams have to make decisions elsewhere.
Basically it boils down to do you want a really good guard with a marginal back-up or a couple of mediocre guys there? I'd rather have Bitonio with say Harris or whoever as the back-up over Dunn or Harris as the starter and the other as back-up.
Now, maybe the point is I would rather have Dunn on the squad over Harris, but we don't make that call. If that is the beef you have then I agree.
I still think Berry is clinging to the hope of trading Harris for something. Harris could be a fairly decent center in the league, but Pocic wiped that out.
A bad thought, maybe Berry is trying to move Pocic? We could get more for him, and we drafted Wypler. Maybe that is the plan? Go with harris for a year and replace him with Wypler once he gets some seasoning. Who knows?
I'm no expert, so I could be wrong. From what I remember, Harris is not effective as a guard, too small. When, in training camp, Wypler was used at G he held his own. It seems to me they may be thinking of Wypler as the B/U guard if needed.
I'm no expert, so I could be wrong. From what I remember, Harris is not effective as a guard, too small. When, in training camp, Wypler was used at G he held his own. It seems to me they may be thinking of Wypler as the B/U guard if needed.
None of us are experts or we wouldn't be "dorking " around on a message board. Yet we sometimes think we are.
I agree. Sometimes you just have to pick. Berry has his reasons for his picks even if we disagree. We might disagree, but what are you going to do? If Bitonio and Teller don't get hurt for any length of time, it won't matter, right?
Sometimes the decisions come down to that question. As with any team, sometimes you just have to hope it works out. You just can't cover every possibility. That is the randomness of any season. A bit of luck is always involved.
You are never going to have adequate back-up to a pro bowl type player. Come on, lets be real here. Somewhere on the roster, a few corners have to be cut short. Just the nature of the beast.
OLine depth is quickly becoming a concern..we can add OT to the list. Tackles are Tackles...right?
The Browns relied on their running game for a majority of their offense vs the Bengals...
Browns OLine depth could be a huge factor if the Browns continue to have OLine
concerns. Maintaining good OLine depth should be a priority for the Browns running game.
With both our OTs now dealing with injuries and the Browns OL, especially OT depth now in doubt, the Browns are "scrambling" attempting to find their OL depth by scrapping the bottom of the barrel, poaching OT help where ever they find it.
‘High Ceiling’ 49ers 25-Year-Old Poached to Cleveland Browns Roster
If there is an area in which San Francisco probably could not lose much depth, it is along the offensive line. But on Thursday, the Browns signed tackle Leroy Watson from the 49ers roster, adding him to the 53-man roster after Watson spent the last two NFL seasons on the practice squad.
Watson was originally signed by the Falcons after going undrafted out of Texas-San Antonio in 2022, and when he was waived by Atlanta that summer, he landed with the 49ers. He has not gotten a chance to play for the 49ers in his two seasons with the team, so his time with the Browns will mark his first opportunity to get game action.
It could be worth paying attention to for 49ers fans, because Watson was part of an interesting experiment with San Francisco.
He was a tight end in college—his teammate at UTSA was Spencer Burford—but the Niners liked his size (6-foot-5), athleticism and blocking ability enough to see him as a future offensive tackle.
For the last two years, Watson has been on the roster of the 49ers practice squad, working on that transition. In truth, it was not that difficult of a transition, as Watson had been an offensive lineman before he started playing tight end.
If it’s successful, it will be bittersweet. On one hand, the 49ers would be proven right, that Watson did have an NFL future as a lineman, not a tight end. On the other hand, they’ll have to watch someone else benefit from the fruits of their work.
Conversion on Its Way Before Watson Left 49ers for Browns
In his short time on the 49ers roster before news hit of his signing by the Browns, Leroy Watson did make an impression, at least with one guy whose opinion should matter: Trent Williams, the 49ers’ Pro Bowl tackle. Williams said, back in July, that he had been mentoring Watson and appreciated how the young guys had been using his time.
“He comes to me for a lot,” Williams said of Watson, via The Athletic. “He’s definitely one of those little brothers. We’ve kind of got the same physical makeup — he’s an athletic guy. His ceiling’s extremely high. He’s still new to the position, but he’s an intelligent player. Like I said, he has all the attributes. He’s used all this time to his advantage.”
Still, on an offensive line that has been without Williams for the last two weeks, if Watson had made that much progress, he would not still have been on the practice squad. The Browns will get the chance to test that progress.
Leroy Watson: ‘Definition of a True TE’ Ironically, the very thing that could now keep Watson in the NFL is the thing that nearly kept him out of it. In college, he was a much better blocking tight end than a pass-catching tight end, and had only 25 receptions in three seasons. But blocking-based tight ends from small schools are not going to garner much NFL interest. And Watson didn’t.
Before the 2022 draft, this is what Watson said of his ability as a prospect: “What sets me apart from every other tight end is I believe the definition of a true tight end. I believe I’m one of if not the best blocking tight ends in the country, and I’m a pass threat. And no tight end is as physical as I am. It comes from two or three years of playing offense line it was my first position before I was moved to tight end.”
It’s back to the line now, and with Jedrick Wills (foot) and Dawand Jones (shoulder) dealing with injuries for the Browns, maybe we’ll finally see Leroy Watson on the field. Just not in the uniform we’d hoped.
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Some question why I'm not all in on Andrew Berry...I look at his ability judge talent, for example, QB depth and now OL depth. Two of the most important positions on the offensive side of the ball.
Berry is still on OJT, learning to judge football talent over time. IMO, one of the benefits of hiring DC Schwartz was giving Berry another source to lean on to help the GM judge defensive talent. The Browns did not get into this situation over the last season, but from the time he made his very first draft pick as the Browns new GM in 2020.
Berry needs help when it comes to decision making as it relates to judging offensive talent. Hopefully Berry now understands the value of retaining an experienced backup QB, such as Brissett. Berry had him but did not want to pay enough to keep him or get Brissett back. Paying for backup depth does have it's advantages, especially if your starting QB gets hurt..a realistic approach when it comes to building a roster.
Many seemed to assume that Berry had all the knowledge he needed to make sound decisions when it came to building the Browns roster, but the truth is, Berry was and still is learning by making his own mistakes.
No doubt there are some things that Berry is very good at when it comes to his GM duties. But recognizing your weaknesses and doing something to improve in those areas should be a high priority for the franchise and Berry, imo.
Everyone, including Berry deserve to be questioned and criticized based upon their mistakes. They also deserve to be given credit for the things they do right unless someone has an axe to grind.
