I would have put this in the qb thread, but that's turned into yet another love/hate McCoy go 'round.
Here's a good video showing Tannehill's pros and cons vs. LSU....about as close to an NFL D you'll find in the NCAA. I like him for his size and athleticism, but his release is rather slow and he made some bonehead decisions under pressure. Maybe that can be fixed if we can pick him up without selling out our draft? His wheels are better than I thought they'd be.
I have been an adament anti-Tannehill person. But, that is largely because Mourg has been pushing him with our ATL-pick in the 1st.
I think Tannehill needs a ton of work and will need to sit for at least 2 seasons. That is generally a 4th and below type prospect. I could see him as a 3rd rounder. Anything above that is foolish to me though.
I was hoping he'd fall to the 2nd round, and I'd have no problem taking him there....and letting him sit behind Colt/Wallace for a year. I'm sick of watching smallish qb's get the snot knocked out of them in our division. My first choice would be Luck if we don't have to trade our entire draft, and second would be taking Flynn (he seems to play a lot bigger than Colt) and using our draft for some playmakers to surround him with. I think RG3 would be oft injured here.
I don't see that the round matters... you either think he can be an NFL QB, or you don't. Only after answering that should the round matter.... but if you think he can be an NFL QB, then why would Round 1 be a problem? If all you think he can be is a backup, then why bother? You can find those anywhere.
Quote: Hard to know where any QB will be drafted after last year's draft.
ain't that the truth.
remember how in our DT mock draft mallett fell to the third? That was funny when it turned out he was actually drafted there. But Locker at 8? Ponder at 12? Washington trading out of a QB draft slot? I don't think many saw those coming.
He is a different QB from last years bowl to this years bowl. It is one of the big reasons I really like this kid. His mechanics have improved a great deal, his footwork has gone from below average to the best in this draft.
I dont often pimp 1st round qbs because most are so overrated it is hilarious but this kid just has so much potential.
Ah, so you favor giving a qb 2 years tops, to be "the man". Neat.
Actually, a year and a half if you want to get technical.
So, we draft Tannehill - he gets a year and half to make us good or he's outta here? I guess that's fine, as long as we don't trade 3 firsts and a second or 2 to get him.
I don't give a rip who the qb is. If we draft someone, fine. I just don't want to sell the farm to get one. We have so many needs. If a qb is there, we take him. If he's not, we take someone else. It's simple.
Question for you: We draft a qb - does he get a year and a half of starts to show he's all that? Or will you hold a drafted qb to the same standards as you do now?
if we draft Tannehill, then we would almost assuredly be giving Colt this year as well. he's not ready to start in the NFL. even his most ardent supporters agree with that (Edit: okay, maybe not his most ardent supporters)
so, you'd have given Colt 2.5 years and up to 37 starts to prove his mettle. if he had that light bulb turn on, then great. if not, then you have your backup plan in place.
i'm not in favor of Tannehill specifically, but the plan itself has merit.
Quote: if we draft Tannehill, then we would almost assuredly be giving Colt this year as well. he's not ready to start in the NFL. even his most ardent supporters agree with that.
so, you'd have given Colt 2.5 years and up to 37 starts to prove his mettle. if he had that light bulb turn on, then great. if not, then you have your backup plan in place.
i'm not in favor of Tannehill specifically, but the plan itself has merit.
And, as I've said many times - let's get another qb in here - I have no problem with that. I just don't want to trade so many picks for a "might be", and that's what Luck is, as is RG, or Tannehill, or Jones......etc.
Competition is good for the team. I am loyal to no single player.
Quote: And, as I've said many times - let's get another qb in here - I have no problem with that. I just don't want to trade so many picks for a "might be", and that's what Luck is, as is RG, or Tannehill, or Jones......etc.
...and so were Manning, Rodgers, McCoy, Leaf, Couch etc etc....what's your point?
You're basically saying you don't want to trade "might be" picks for a "might be" pick, yeah makes perfect sense lol....
with your logic there would never be trades and I guess this thought of thinking simply comes from not knowing anything about those prospects particularly or the draft process in general, because those who think every prospect is a "might be" consider the draft a crapshoot...but it's not...good GM draft good players, bad GMs don't and get fired....it's not a science, but it's also not bingo....it's a job and the prospects are their material with different value...it's not "might be" after "might be" as you'd like to portray it
Quote: so, you'd have given Colt 2.5 years and up to 37 starts to prove his mettle. if he had that light bulb turn on, then great. if not, then you have your backup plan in place.
I like this plan - but at the moment would be hesitant to spend our Atlanta Pick on Tannehill - he has a lot of question marks for a part of the draft where you can get a solid starter at another position.
If Tannehill falls to the 2nd, I think a very good draft for our offense would look like:
Quote: Actually, I don't want to trade 4 or 5 or 6 or more "might be's", for 1 "might be". That has to make sense to you, doesn't it?
No, it doesn't, because, as I've tried to explain, not every "might be" has equal value...they're not all equal in value, depending on position, ceiling, length to impact etc etc....more picks do not equal more impact on your team...that's simply wrong and naive....we had 4 Top 50 picks in 2009, starting with a 5th overall...how did that turn out? Would anyone whine here now if we traded Mack, Robo, Massa, Maiava and Veikune for Stafford? I know I wouldn't
Quote: Ah, so you favor giving a qb 2 years tops, to be "the man". Neat.
Because that's what I said...?
I said if we spend a pick on a QB HIGHER THAN A 4TH ROUNDER... Then the FO has lost faith in McCoy...
You don't bring in Equal or Greater Valued Competition (McCoy being a 3rd Rd Pick) if you think he's the guy.. (Rivers/Bress is the exception, not the rule..)
No, it doesn't, because, as I've tried to explain, not every "might be" has equal value...they're not all equal in value, depending on position, ceiling, length to impact etc etc....more picks do not equal more impact on your team...that's simply wrong and naive....we had 4 Top 50 oicks in 2009...how did that turn out? Would anyone whine here now if we traded Mack, Robo, Massa, Maiava and Veikune for Stafford? I know I wouldn't
Well, just talking probabilistically - let's say Luck has a 90% chance of being an all-pro caliber player (gone to a pro-bowl).
For 2000-2008 5 #1 picks have done that (Vick, Manning, Palmer, Williams, Long), so the natural hit rate seems to be around 62.5%, but we give 90% since Luck is a better prospect than most.
For picks 2-10, 41 prospects have gone to a pro-bowl in 2000-2008, so the hit rate is 41/81 ~ 50%.
For picks from 20-30, 31 prospects have gone to a pro-bowl, for a hit rate of 31/99 ~ 31%
So we are giving away a #4, a #24, and then two more 1st round picks. Let's say one ends up being top ten and one is 20-30. Then on average we are giving up about 1.6 pro-bowl caliber players, in exchange for about 0.9.
Now this is a very simple way of putting it, since I'm saying all pro-bowl players are the same. But you also never know when the guy you draft at #24 will end up being twice the player Luck is.
Anyway, that's the odds argument in it's simplest form.
Didn't watch a single A&M game this year. Watching that video of the LSU game:
1. Athleticism and height stand out the most. Looks the part. 2. Don't like the release. Do QB coaches teach kids how to throw anymore? 3. Seems to have NFL arm strength 4. Questionable decision making
Looks like a project to me although his upside looks to be pretty high.
If it were me this isn't the type of player I'd want to have in our current position. If I was Green Bay or another team with an established starter I'd draft him somewhere late round 2 or beyond.
Quote: Didn't watch a single A&M game this year. Watching that video of the LSU game:
1. Athleticism and height stand out the most. Looks the part. 2. Don't like the release. Do QB coaches teach kids how to throw anymore? 3. Seems to have NFL arm strength 4. Questionable decision making
Looks like a project to me although his upside looks to be pretty high.
If it were me this isn't the type of player I'd want to have in our current position. If I was Green Bay or another team with an established starter I'd draft him somewhere late round 2 or beyond.
That size and athletecism intrigues me, and it's what's needed in our division. From that video, it also looks like he can take a hit. If he could get rid of the ball quicker, I don't think he'd be that much of a project. LSU has a hell of a defense, and he was able to move the ball.
Quote: we had 4 Top 50 picks in 2009, starting with a 5th overall...how did that turn out? Would anyone whine here now if we traded Mack, Robo, Massa, Maiava and Veikune for Stafford? I know I wouldn't
Judging the value of a trade based on whether the actual player picked in that spot pans out isn't reality. The fact that we didn't pick well is irrelevant.
With the same picks we could have had Clay Matthews, Ray Maulaluga, LeSean McCoy, Phil Loadholt and Brian Hartline...
Quote: I don't see that the round matters... you either think he can be an NFL QB, or you don't. Only after answering that should the round matter.... but if you think he can be an NFL QB, then why would Round 1 be a problem? If all you think he can be is a backup, then why bother? You can find those anywhere.
I tend to agree with this. He has a chance to be an incremental improvement over McCoy for sure (and thus would warrant a mid round pick maybe, but like Deep said he's gonna get drafted way before then). Very VERY doubtful he ever turns into anything more than that. We don't need to waste our time with incremental improvements at the QB position. We need a stud. Period.
Quote: And, as I've said many times - let's get another qb in here - I have no problem with that. I just don't want to trade so many picks for a "might be", and that's what Luck is, as is RG, or Tannehill, or Jones......etc.
So what you're saying is...you NEVER want to trade up for a player...EVER. Because they're always a "might be". Ok, got it.
Quote: Actually, I don't want to trade 4 or 5 or 6 or more "might be's", for 1 "might be". That has to make sense to you, doesn't it?
No, it doesn't. It's all about risk vs. reward. A QB is by far and away the most important position on the football field. Let me try a gambling analogy. "Hitting" on the QB is like winning 2 million dollars at the World Series of Poker. "Hitting" on a CB or LB (while both good and important) is like winning $200 from a home table poker game with 5 friends.
Right now we have an invitation to the World Series table....but it will cost us the ability to play in the next 3 or 4 home table games. And you say, yeah but what if we go and don't win? Then we come home with no money AND we lost out on the ability to win the home table games?! That's true...except this particular World Series table has an odds of winning of 90% compared to the "normal" odds of 50%.
So let's see we risk: 50% chance at $200 + 50% chance at $200 + 50% chance at $200 + 50% chance at $200 (the equivalent of 4 home table games...or in our case 4 draft picks).
For a reward of: 90% chance at $2 million.
Total risk = 0.5*200*4 = $400 opportunity cost lost for a chance at Total reward = 0.9*2 mill = $1.8 million.
Sure there's a 10% chance you lose the $400 AND don't win...but how do you NOT play those odds?!? It's insane! The reward (due to the position combined with the EXTREMELY HIGH CHANCE OF SUCCESS) far far far outweigh any of the risks.
Quote: If the Browns were one awesome qb away from being perennial contenders, heck yeah I'd do it.
No team is close to being a perennial contender without a franchise QB, because without that guy they are going to struggle...to the point people will continue talking about all the other positions that need fixed "first". The scenario which you are describing does not exist in today's NFL.
Quote: So let's see we risk: 50% chance at $200 + 50% chance at $200 + 50% chance at $200 + 50% chance at $200 (the equivalent of 4 home table games...or in our case 4 draft picks).
For a reward of: 90% chance at $2 million.
Total risk = 0.5*200*4 = $400 opportunity cost lost for a chance at Total reward = 0.9*2 mill = $1.8 million.
Sure there's a 10% chance you lose the $400 AND don't win...but how do you NOT play those odds?!? It's insane! The reward (due to the position combined with the EXTREMELY HIGH CHANCE OF SUCCESS) far far far outweigh any of the risks.
So you're saying that Luck is 90,000x times as good as a normal first round pick? Because that's ridiculous....
There are some actual numbers I made in another thread - based on reality (or at least an attempt at it).
Edit: To be clear - your model says that if the colts offered us "Andrew Luck for every single draft pick the Browns will have for the next 1000 years" we should take it - that's why it's clearly comical and wrong.
Quote: No team is close to being a perennial contender without a franchise QB, because without that guy they are going to struggle...to the point people will continue talking about all the other positions that need fixed "first". The scenario which you are describing does not exist in today's NFL.
except the Jets (2 straight AFC Champ games - barely missed playoffs this year), the Ravens (in playoffs every year), and possibly the 49ers (let's see if they can repeat their success but they are in the NFC West)
What last year's draft should have taught us is that QB's will be drafted early and often,and this year's crop is less than last year's. He won't last long,definately not to the 2 nd round.The qb position holds too much value even with teams that allready have a good one.
Obviously I just threw in some monetary values to make a point as those weren't "scientific" in any way shape or form. If you want to get closer to reality, you are correct in assuming that the probability of a "hit" goes down with each round in the draft (so I over inflated the opportunity cost already), but then we have to "guestimate" how much more a QB is worth than any other position. Again I have no "scientific" way to prove or disprove this but I'd say 1 good QB makes an entire offense better...so that's 11 guys...so let's go with a conservative estimate and say he's worth 5x more than any other position.
So if the QB was worth $200 * 5 = $1000. With a 90% chance of success that's still worth $900 which is significantly greater than the (already too large) $400 cost of missing out on those other picks.
Look, we can squabble about the details of the actual $ amounts in this purely hypothetical analogy all day long, but the point remains. You can not win without a QB. We have the chance this season to go get a QB if we want. The probability of getting a 1st ballot HOF type QB talent in this draft is higher than it has been in over 10 years.
You can do whatever "math" you want. The answer is pretty obvious.
You can do whatever "math" you want. The answer is pretty obvious.
No - that's the point, what decision you are supposed to make depends on the math - I put up something which is much more reasonable (says Luck is worth about 2 top-ten picks. and a top-ten pick is worth about 2 late first rounders) and we shouldn't pay more than that.
You can't just make up ridiculous math, and then when you get called out on it, say "well, the answer is obvious"
Quote: except the Jets (2 straight AFC Champ games - barely missed playoffs this year)
I certainly don't want the Browns to be modeled after the Jets. Winning 8-10 games a year, either barely into or out of the playoffs, never even making a Super Bowl let alone winning one (or multiple). Sanchez isn't going to lead that team anywhere. No thanks. That's not a golden pillar of success I'd strive to follow.
Quote: the Ravens (in playoffs every year)
Flacco is a lot better than many give him credit for. Even with an above average QB that team required having THE BEST running game in the entire NFL AND THE BEST defense in the entire NFL to win anything. Give us 20-30 years and the rest of our team might be up to those standards.
Quote: and possibly the 49ers (let's see if they can repeat their success but they are in the NFC West)
I put the Niners in the same boat as the Jets. They haven't done squat yet.
Now compare that list to guys whose teams, you know, actually won.
2011 - Aaron Rodgers (elite QB) 2010 - Drew Brees (elite QB) 2009 - Ben Roethlisberger (elite QB) 2008 - Eli Manning (above avg QB) 2007 - Peyton Manning (elite QB) 2006 - Ben Roethlisberger (elite QB) 2005 - Tom Brady (elite QB) 2004 - Tom Brady (elite QB) 2003 - Brad Johnson (journeyman vet) 2002 - Tom Brady (elite QB) 2001 - Trent Dilfer (journeyman vet) 2000 - Kurt Warner (elite QB) 1999 - John Elway (elite QB) 1998 - John Elway (elite QB) 1997 - Brett Favre (elite QB) 1996 - Troy Aikman (elite QB) 1995 - Steve Young (elite QB) 1994 - Troy Aikman (elite QB) 1993 - Troy Aikman (elite QB)
So 16 of the last 19 'ships have been won by elite QBs. I'd say winning without one is the exception, not the rule. We don't have one. We need one. Do what it takes to go get one. It's that important.
You can do whatever "math" you want. The answer is pretty obvious.
No - that's the point, what decision you are supposed to make depends on the math - I put up something which is much more reasonable (says Luck is worth about 2 top-ten picks. and a top-ten pick is worth about 2 late first rounders) and we shouldn't pay more than that.
You can't just make up ridiculous math, and then when you get called out on it, say "well, the answer is obvious"
I can because even your analysis doesn't take into account the varying levels of importance for different positions. Are the 1.6 pro bowl players we give up LB's? Corners? Wide Receivers? A couple of both?
0.9 pro bowl QB's are worth more than 1.6 pro bowl CB's. That's why I attached a dollar value to their positions (different games). How much more? Well guess we have to start going down that hypothetical road again...
Quote: With the same picks we could have had Clay Matthews, Ray Maulaluga, LeSean McCoy, Phil Loadholt and Brian Hartline...
Would you trade that for Matt Stafford?
If that's best case...and I probably still would do that trade since the only valuable pieces would be Matthews and McCoy...a franchise QB is worth more than a good RB and premier pass rusher...and they usually have longer careers...the other 3 are AVG or worse starters...merely complementary players
The 1 constant in both trade scenarios is Stafford...and since he looks like a pretty decent franchise QB he has tremendous value...1 thing is for sure...the owner of Matthews/McCoy etc would think about the scenario A LOT LONGER than the Stafford owner in the Mack/Massa deal...and you picked your best case of those 4 picks....that'll never happen, no GM is THAT perfect hitting all picks...our ACTUAL 09 is a lot closer to reality
I'm pretty sure the same guys that lament a possible uptrade for Luck would have gone ALL BANANAS if we moved from 5 to 1 to get Stafford and gave up all those "valuable" picks
Since our rebirth we've had good RB, WR, TE, OL play here and there, for a season or 2...same with DL, LB and (now) CB play....the 1 big constant since then has been BAD QB PLAY....maybe, just maybe that is our problem that needs to be fixed
Quote: So what you're saying is...you NEVER want to trade up for a player...EVER. Because they're always a "might be". Ok, got it.
This whole discussion reminds me of the old joke where the guy asks the woman, "Would you have sex with me for $2 million?" and the woman looks him over and says, "Well sure." So the guy says, "Would you have sex with me for $50?" and the indignant woman responds, "No way, what kind of girl do you think I am?" and the guy says, "We already established that, now we are just haggling over the price."
I don't think there is a person that has posted that wouldn't love to have Andrew Luck in a Browns uniform next year.. it has now been reduced to a ******ing contest over how much that is worth... and people have different opinions.
My own personal opinion is somewhere between those who would pay very little and those who would sell out most of this year and next year's drafts.
I happen to think that with a full offseason for everybody including the coaches, a healthy refocused Hillis, a healthy Steinbach, a reasonable upgrade at RT, possibly some depth at OL (and that's not touching the WRs) that... with the right QB, this is a 8-9 win team almost immediately...
If (and it's a big IF) Matt Flynn is the guy and is as good as some people think he is, who already has some NFL experience.. then you add Justin Blackmon, this is better than an 8-9 win team...
Compare the first video with this one and you can see how much improvement this kid made in one year. There is a reason Mike Sherman raves about how coachable this kid is.
Sign Flynn for five years, $35-$40M. Trade back with whoever loses out on RG3 (Indy's taking Luck) and pick up an extra No. 2. Take Richardson with 1A and Wright/Floyd/Jeffery?Sanu with 1B. Tannehill with 2A and he is third string behind Flynn and McCoy in year one. RT with 2B. If Flynn's the real, deal nothing else matters. If he sucks, Tannehill emerges in the meantime, maturing at a safe pace and takes over in year 3 and we cut Flynn. If Flynn's great and Tannehill turns out good, too, well, we'll be okay.
Quote: I said if we spend a pick on a QB HIGHER THAN A 4TH ROUNDER... Then the FO has lost faith in McCoy...
You don't bring in Equal or Greater Valued Competition (McCoy being a 3rd Rd Pick) if you think he's the guy.. (Rivers/Bress is the exception, not the rule..)
Quote: Compare the first video with this one and you can see how much improvement this kid made in one year. There is a reason Mike Sherman raves about how coachable this kid is.
He still has that quirky release, but he's definitely firing the ball quicker. I'm afraid that with Jones staying in school, Tannehill's going to go higher in the draft. I don't think he'll even be there with our 1b pick now.
Quote: Thanks....I like him, and have for a while.
He has tons of upside since he hasn't played the position very long. Coaching can clean up much in his mechanics.
I'd take him at 1B, but I think he is gone earlier.
I'd move up from that pick to take him.
I don't think that I'd move up from that pick to take him but he could be there. I doubt that they take him though, I think that Holmgren is looking further down the draft for a QB prospect.
Quote: I said if we spend a pick on a QB HIGHER THAN A 4TH ROUNDER... Then the FO has lost faith in McCoy...
You don't bring in Equal or Greater Valued Competition (McCoy being a 3rd Rd Pick) if you think he's the guy.. (Rivers/Bress is the exception, not the rule..)
That doesn't follow at all.
Yea, I think that a first round QB means you are much less certain that Colt is the guy and you the new guy is now option A, a second or third means that you are still on the fence and want to begin preparing option B just in case and anything from 4 down means you are still ok with Colt, and might just be looking for that Tom Brady late round miracle who could become the guy in a couple years if Colt fails to improve.
The one thing you have to remember about him is this is his second year at QB. I think that's why so many teams are interested in him. I look at him the same way as you (2nd rounder in need of development) but I think he has a very high ceiling, because he still has plenty that can be coached into him.
This isnt a guy who has been given ample time to develop pocket presence of decision making yet still does very well. Give him some time with the right coaches and he could become a very solid starter. He has all the measurables and is mobile when needed. .
Tannehill arrived in College Station as one of the top dual-threat quarterback prospects in the nation, but showed an exceptional team-first attitude by switching to receiver after losing the pre-season quarterback battle to Jerrod Johnson as a redshirt freshman in 2008. When Johnson struggled early in the 2010 season due to injury, however, Tannehill stepped into the fire and earned great respect from all of college football--and NFL scouts--by leading the team to six consecutive victories and a bowl berth, completing 65 percent of his passes for 1,638 yards and 13 touchdowns against six interceptions.
It's not as though his two seasons as primarily a receiver for the Aggues were unsuccessful. He caught 59 passes for 844 yards and five scores in that 2008 season, earning the team's offensive MVP award as well as Freshman All-American honors. Tannehill led the team for the second straight year in receiving in 2009 (46-609-4), receiving work at quarterback in three games (completing four of eight passes for 60 yards).
Quote: The one thing you have to remember about him is this is his second year at QB. I think that's why so many teams are interested in him. I look at him the same way as you (2nd rounder in need of development) but I think he has a very high ceiling, because he still has plenty that can be coached into him.
The problem with Tannehill is that Cleveland might be the worst place for him. The second our QB (whoever it is) has a bad game, the fans will start calling for the young kid to come in and take over. See: pretty much every QB controversy we've had since 1999.
Compare the first video with this one and you can see how much improvement this kid made in one year. There is a reason Mike Sherman raves about how coachable this kid is.
Coming from Northwestern, I've watched too many games to give an opposing QB much credit for what he does against us.
And since the league changed the rules about WR/CB play and put in the illegal contact rule, the league's been even more skewed for passing offenses to the point where people claiming you don't need an elite QB can't even point to the Trent Dilfer/Brad Johnson outliers.
For us, I definitely think Tannehill is the 2nd best QB in this draft and I'd fully be on board with us taking him. I still wouldn't take him before the 2nd round though because, like I said before, I think he could be better than McCoy but I just don't see "elite". It's not about getting "a" guy, it's about getting "the" guy. I like Tannehill a lot but can he be that type of QB?
The problem is someone is surely going to draft him before our pick at #37. So is he worth our pick at #22-#25? Boy, that's a tough question. I guess it depends on how you would rank him against the FA QB's available and the QB prospects expected to come out in 2013.
If we pass/can't obtain Luck we still need to upgrade the QB position somehow in the very near future.
I think you also have to take a longer view of things.
If this guy is coming out and has experience in the WCO, then next year there will be someone as well... so, how does that person project at this point, etc? If that guy isn't viewed as being more than a backup, then would it perhaps be more prudent to just pass on him altogether being that we already have at least one backup in the WCO? That pick can then be spent on filling an actual need - because we can absolutely be certain that backup QB is NOT a need at this point.
I get what you're saying but looking at these guys remaining..I feel 2-3 of them are upgrades to McCoy. Not including Luck, these guys possess things that McCoy doesn't have,and I think they have a good chance of succeeding.
Well, my point is that unless you are definitely going to be getting an upgrade on the starter, there is no point in grabbing a guy.... and if you already have one (or two) backups, then there is no point in grabbing a guy that won't be a clear upgrade on the starter.
If the guy you are looking at falls into one of those scenarios, or is borderline in them, then you really need to look at what may be coming in the future because pulling the trigger this year may well not be the best move.
Quote: Well, my point is that unless you are definitely going to be getting an upgrade on the starter, there is no point in grabbing a guy.... and if you already have one (or two) backups, then there is no point in grabbing a guy that won't be a clear upgrade on the starter.
Which is why we need Luck . He's the only "definite upgrade" available IMO.
Quote: If the guy you are looking at falls into one of those scenarios, or is borderline in them, then you really need to look at what may be coming in the future because pulling the trigger this year may well not be the best move.
And this is where I think Tannehill falls. Which is why I said that's a tough decision and depends on the FA/2013 draft prospects available. Which way we go will for sure tell us H&H's true opinions of McCoy. If we pull the trigger on a Tannehill then they feel an upgrade at QB (even if not a sure thing) is imperative. If we use our higher picks instead on other positions and bring in a late round flier QB or low tier FA then they think McCoy showed enough to get one more year with better talent around him. Will be interesting for sure.
Colt was a bit of a project who needed to sit, Tannehill is a project that should sit.. I just don't want to get into this situation where we keep drafting projects in the 2nd and 3rd rounds but can't afford them the time to sit...
Go big or don't go at all on the QB spot this year... I'll be repeating that right up until draft day.. If you think Flynn is "the guy" then go get him and pay the money and commit to it, if not, go get RGIII, if you don't like him enough, make a good offer for Luck, if you don't get him, stick with Colt.. we have got to stop half-azzing the QB spot.
Sign Kyle orton or Jason Campbell, and draft Blackmon/Richardson or trade down and grab K Wright then Tannehill with 1b. Upgrade with future.
Or, sign Flynn and draft Clayborn/Richardson/Kalil with 1a and Kendell Wright with 1b. Sign Bowe. Resign Hillis. BOOM! O-FFENSE!
If you have Hillis in the backfield and Bowe as #1, G Little as #2, K Wright as #3, that is DEFINITELY a supporting cast that you can win with. Especially if you sign a serviceable RT in FA and draft Claiborne with 1a. A starting LB or FS in round 2, and our team can legitimately make some noise.
EDIT- Just realized I was in the Tannehill thread. They all mesh together now
Quote: Colt was a bit of a project who needed to sit, Tannehill is a project that should sit.. I just don't want to get into this situation where we keep drafting projects in the 2nd and 3rd rounds but can't afford them the time to sit...
I think that the Browns FO hasn't given up on Colt and that they may take a step back with him. I can see them looking to sign a veteran FA QB (one with actual NFL experience) that doesn't need a cane that fits the scheme and who won't be prone to injury. Maybe someone like Chris Redman, just so that McCoy can get the year holding the clipboard that he was supposed to get but never did.
Frankly, I think the Browns should simply release Seneca Wallace, but I don't think that's what they'll do. I think that Holmgren is comfy with him on the team and will keep him around.
Tannehill arrived in College Station as one of the top dual-threat quarterback prospects in the nation, but showed an exceptional team-first attitude by switching to receiver after losing the pre-season quarterback battle to Jerrod Johnson as a redshirt freshman in 2008. When Johnson struggled early in the 2010 season due to injury, however, Tannehill stepped into the fire and earned great respect from all of college football--and NFL scouts--by leading the team to six consecutive victories and a bowl berth, completing 65 percent of his passes for 1,638 yards and 13 touchdowns against six interceptions.
It's not as though his two seasons as primarily a receiver for the Aggues were unsuccessful. He caught 59 passes for 844 yards and five scores in that 2008 season, earning the team's offensive MVP award as well as Freshman All-American honors. Tannehill led the team for the second straight year in receiving in 2009 (46-609-4), receiving work at quarterback in three games (completing four of eight passes for 60 yards).
Colt was a bit of a project who needed to sit, Tannehill is a project that should sit..
Tannehill isn't this big project QB some of you guys are making him out to be and he should not be sitting. He needs reps. He needs to play and learn as he goes. The only way I would sit him is if he goes to a different offensive scheme and then he has to learn that as well.
Colt never ran a pro system. Tannehill runs this system. They run a little more out of the gun than we do but thats about the only difference besides they run it better. Look Tannehill makes throws Colt can't dream of making. Tannehill makes throws Colt struggles with look like nerf football.
I think he will be one of those that just lights up the senior bowl and his stock will soar. It could really soar if Mike Sherman gets the Miami job, then you have Shannahan who loves big armed QBs with mobility and then you have Seattle running the WCO as well. 3 top 10 teams running the WCO and needing a QB and 1 more not far behind.
BTW wonder if Pat Shurmur will be coaching the senior bowl? Rams wont have a staff in place and the Colts might not.
Word on the street is that Tannehill suffered a "significant foot injury" today, which will keep him out of the senior bowl, and possibly affect the Combine - will look for sources.
Also heard the same thing major injury practicing.
My understanding of what the NFL, or Senior Bowl people do, is start at the top of the draft and ask teams if they want to coach it. So they asked Indy (who has HC uncertainty) then STL, which fired their HC so probably skipped them, then Minn (who accepted), the Browns (we turned it down - only a guess here), then TB (no head coach), and finally Washington accepted as the 2nd team.
I cannot say 100% that this is how it went, but I remember reading somewhere (at sometime) something like this is the process.
Quote: Also heard the same thing major injury practicing.
The injury is being described as "a significant foot injury." Apparently, he suffered it while working out. The guys is obviously made of glass. I want no part of him.
Well, I actually went to Texas A&M for undergrad and graduated in 2007, so I have been watching A&M football since 2003. When Tannehill stepped in as QB mid-season of 2010, he was on fire for 6 games, and then came crashing down against LSU giving up some turnovers and screwing up a lot of passes. From there, that has become the norm with him in 2011. He looked worse this year than he did in the 7 games he started in 2010, but then again the entire football team was one disaster after another all season, so it's difficult to put it all on Tannehill. He certainly did well against the lesser opponents, but failed to get the job done in games that mattered and often disappeared in the 2nd half.
The A&M run game was consistently awesome each week even after Christine Michael went down for the year, and yet Tannehill still struggled to make good decisions. When asked to come back late in games, Tannehill tended to make a lot of bad mistakes. He usually picked the most inopportune times to throw INTs, which may have been due to pressure from the defense and them expecting the pass, but it was still his decision to throw the ball.
In any case, I really don't believe that he will be any better than a Jake Locker or a Christian Ponder, and that he belongs in the 3rd round or later. He doesn't have exceptional arm strength, accuracy or mobility. He's an above average QB, but his great size is the only reason he is ahead of other QB prospects in the draft rankings. If he's there in the early third, sure take him, if not, don't worry about it, you're not missing on the next Elway.
Posted by Michael David Smith on January 12, 2012 ProFootballTalk.com
AP - The foot injury that will keep Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill out of the Senior Bowl may require surgery.
Tannehill’s agent, Pat Dye, confirmed to ESPN.com that Tannehill broke a fifth metatarsal in a passing drill and might need surgery.
Although recovery from the surgery could keep Tannehill from working out at the scouting combine in February, Dye said he’s optimistic Tannehill will be able to throw for coaches and scouts by March, well before the NFL draft, which begins on April 26.
Tannehill is considered by many to be this year’s third-best quarterback and the best senior quarterback, behind juniors Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III. Tannehill is a good athlete who started his college career at wide receiver but showed off an NFL-ready passing arm during his senior season.
hmmm..... well if the browns were looking at him, he should be available at #22. I was beginning to think he could shoot up the board a bit, but no way is he healthy enough to have solid workouts or a spectacular combine.
He'll be lucky to be out of a cam boot in 8 weeks, 10 weeks is more realistic. That leaves him less then a month to get in shape and wow the league.....
Quote: hmmm..... well if the browns were looking at him, he should be available at #22. I was beginning to think he could shoot up the board a bit, but no way is he healthy enough to have solid workouts or a spectacular combine.
He'll be lucky to be out of a cam boot in 8 weeks, 10 weeks is more realistic. That leaves him less then a month to get in shape and wow the league.....
Feels strange but I'm happy he got injured. Hopefully he slides to us. I still don't know if he'll make it past Miami, Seattle, or Jax. If you look at where Locker, Gabbert, Ponder went last season...theres a fairly good chance Tannehill isn't sliding to 22.
Where do you guys have Tannehill ranked in comparison to those three?
His injury is really good for us. Hell he could fall into the 2nd round now. Hmm. Little wheeling and dealing we could come out of this thing really good.
Quote: His injury is really good for us. Hell he could fall into the 2nd round now. Hmm. Little wheeling and dealing we could come out of this thing really good.
Request to YOU and any other who looks deep into Scouting Reports...
Paste us some links...Good or Bad...
U know this cat scares me...
I'd hate to waste a 22 pick or worse yet go down to 10ish and take em' there...
If you don't mind, I'm not going to post the articles just the links.. and also, by laying this stuff out, please don't get the impression I'm for drafting him, I'm just doing my part to provide info
Best case is to trade down about 10 slots, and draft him at #14, and pick up another pick for moving down. I am thinking it would be a 3rd round selection.
That's the best case? Last year we moved up 6 spots from #27 to #21 and gave up a high 3rd, and the best case you see moving down from 4 to 14 is a 3rd? I feel like we should at least ask for a backup DL and a 3rd-string QB in addition.
Say the Boys see Claiborne as a must have to fix their secondary because Dennard is looking a bit stiff and kirkpatrick seeing his stock go up in smoke. It probably costs them 2nd this year and as much as a first next year.
I don't know... last year they were at #9 and a lot of people thought they'd trade up to get patrick peterson. Would they trade up to #4 to get Claiborne this year and pay even more? Peterson was seen by many as the top overall prospect in last year's draft.
Quote: That's the best case? Last year we moved up 6 spots from #27 to #21 and gave up a high 3rd, and the best case you see moving down from 4 to 14 is a 3rd? I feel like we should at least ask for a backup DL and a 3rd-string QB in addition.
I don't know how you do that trade without getting a FS w/ potential (that he'll never reach)
Quote: That's the best case? Last year we moved up 6 spots from #27 to #21 and gave up a high 3rd, and the best case you see moving down from 4 to 14 is a 3rd? I feel like we should at least ask for a backup DL and a 3rd-string QB in addition.
That's cool Cleve...I understand you think things out and like to point out things..even to the point of not knowing how to go with the flow and spirit of the comment..fine, we go with what you want.
I was simply making a point even if the compensation doesn't meet your approval.
Heck, let's just make it a #1 next year and who is going to beach??
I don't know if any of the below sites know what they're talking about or not. But collectively they're saying pretty much what I've seen most say about Tannehill...
Tannehill is a converted quarterback after playing wide receiver for the first half of his career. It should be noted that Tannehill wasn't just some reserve receiver, he was the team's leading receiver the two seasons prior to becoming a quarterback.
Like you might imagine for a wide receiver turned quarterback, Tannehill has a very lean frame that will need to be bulked up to take punishment in the NFL. And while he is particularly mobile and fleet-footed when he decides to tuck and run, he certainly needs a lot of work with his mechanics and footwork.
Scouts can see the potential given his height, quick release and solid accuracy on short to intermediate, but his arm strength is lacking. On deep balls, there just isn't much accuracy and he seems to be aiming or guiding his long throws, rather than just letting it rip. His stock is on the rise since he is leading the Texas A&M Aggies to plenty of wins, but when the tape comes on, reality sets in. You've got an inexperienced quarterback with a ton of potential who will need patience and coaching in order to be a full-fledged NFL quarterback.
Tannehill is trending upward and has the potential to be a first round pick in the 2012 NFL Draft fftoobox.com
Strengths: Impressive overall size and strength. Decent mobility; can move around in the pocket to avoid pressure. Looks fairly athletic on roll outs. A threat to take off running when the play breaks down. NFL-caliber accuracy on short and intermediate routes. Took a more active role in offense in senior year, adjusting more plays at line of scrimmage. Team leader on and off the field; well respected by teammates and coaches.
Weaknesses: Tends to lock on to a receiver and force the ball into tight coverage. Needs be more patient and go through his progressions. Arm strength is adequate, but nothing special. Accuracy on the deep ball is inconsistent; struggles finding the right trajectory to drop it in over a receiver’s shoulder. Somewhat unorthodox throwing motion (sort of a three-quarters delivery angle); may not be a major issue, but takes away slightly from his height advantage and may contribute to his struggles on deep balls.
Comments: Tannehill has the skills to play at the next level and may be able to develop into a starter. He has the size, as well as adequate arm strength and accuracy. Additionally, he appears to have the work ethic and the intelligence necessary to master the intellectual aspect of the game. A team desperate for an upgrade at quarterback may reach for him in the late 1st or 2nd round and throw him into the fire. However, he should really sit and learn for a year or two. His inability to remain patient and read the whole field on a consistent basis will get him in trouble at the next level. Given some time to sit and learn an NFL offensel should allow him to become more comfortable hanging in the pocket longer and making better decisions with the football. draftface.com
Production: Converted to wide receiver from quarterback in his freshman year of 2008 and then moved back to quarterback his junior year in 2010. As a receiver he was very productive leading the team in receiving in both his freshman and sophomore seasons. During his stretch as a quarterback; half of the 2010 season and all of the 2011 season he threw for 5,450 yards with 42 touchdown passes and 21 interceptions. 15 of his career interceptions were forced in his senior season. He completed 67 percent of his passes in 2011.
Size and Speed: Has a lean frame and will need to add a little more mass to take on hits at the next level. Has the height you want in a quarterback and good speed.
Intangibles: Dedicated to the team and that shows in his willingness to change positions. After losing the starting job at quarterback in his freshman season to Jerrod Johnson, he decided to make a switch to receiver. Claimed the starting quarterback position from Johnson in the middle of the 2010 season and led the Aggies to a 5-1 record in the final six games. Game management needs work especially when trying to run out the clock.
Accuracy: Needs to work on the long ball accuracy as he will sail the ball at times and put too much air under it on other attempts. Often under throws receivers who are wide open causing them to have to come back or slow down for the ball to get there.
Arm Strength: Has an NFL caliber arm. Has the velocity needed to throw from the hash to the sidelines.
Setup and Release: Still very raw in his delivery and because of that he is inconsistent with his release. Will at times wind his throws up and often sidearm his throw.
Ability to Read Defenses: Still a work in progress because of the experience at the position. Needs to read the coverage better at times and recognize where he is leading his receiver.
Mobility: A duel threat quarterback who can make plays on the run.
Final Thought: Tannehill is going to be a project for an NFL team. I don’t see him as a first round pick at this point, however the scouting combine could help his case. More than likely a second or third round pick that a team will develop over a few years before considering him as starting material. Safe pick in that he could be a receiver if he doesn’t work out as a quarterback. profootballhuddle.com
Arm Strength: Tannehill has the arm strength to stretch the defense. He can fit the ball into tight windows. He won’t blow scouts away with his arm but has enough to be considered a little above-average.
Accuracy: Tannehill has actively worked on his accuracy. He still makes to many mistakes with the ball but that will come with his development in reading defenses. Tannehill is accurate on the move which makes him a danger because of the possibility to pull the ball down and make plays.
Athleticism: Before taking over at QB for Jerrod Johnson at A&M he played wide receiver. He has the ability to scramble and throw on the run. His athleticism is very similar to that of 2011 2nd rounder, Colin Kaepernick.
Intangibles: Tannehill is a the clear leader of the A&M team but still is learning the position. He makes some bad reads which allows for interceptions and will have to cut those down in the NFL. Tannehill has the football acumen and an added advantage of playing for Mike Sherman. He has only a year and a half of experience under center but has shown the ability to develop in a short period of time. His upside is through the roof once he can focus on being a quarterback as a profession.
Bottom Line: Playing under Mike Sherman will surely help Tannehill’s development as an NFL quarterback. His lack of playing experience is a concern. Tannehill’s upside will be sure to intrigue an NFL team in the late portion of round one or early round-two.
Draft Projection: Tannehill is an early day two prospect with a ton of upside. Given the lack of quality behind Luck and Griffin, Tannehill could easily slide into round one. nflsfuture.com
Comparison: Alex Smith
Grade: 8.2 ¦ About the Grade
Pros:
Terrific Athlete, former WR Has the size you look for in a QB Solid mechanics – Squares his shoulders and displays proper footwork. Great throwing motion Shows great mechanics on the run, keeps his eyes upfield and keeps his shoulders squared with the LOS Threat to run, but not a run first QB Very good accuracy in the short and middle game, loses some deep, but not an area of concern Can make all the throws Stands tall in the pocket N character concerns. Has the “It” factor and a positive swagger about his game
Cons:
Limited experiences as a QB Needs to improve in pre and post-snap reads Tends to force the ball at times Has to improve on putting more touch on the ball, will zip it when he doesn’t need to Has the tendency to lock onto his WR’s Still developing as a QB
MockDraft101′s Opinion:
Tannehill is an intriguing prospect who shares some similarities with San Francisco’s Alex Smith. Both can escaoe the pocket, and both display good accuracy. However, Tannehill has more untapped potential and a higher ceiling. Tannehill will not make an immediate impact his rookie season, but with good coaching could become a solid starter for this league in 2-3 years. mockdraft101.com
Peen i haven't used a pocket proctor since 4 grade...the ball point pin saved my shirts...lol i don;t think 2/3 of our posters ever used a fountian pen to do their school work.
Quote: Tannehill will be drafted before I would take him. He's probably going in the top 15. He's talented but raw.
I'd like to see the Browns get him. I'm afraid the Cowboys might grab him at 14, so if they trade down and hope to still get him, they may be out of luck.
The Thing about Tannehill vs RG 3, I get the impression that Tannehill has bigger bust potential. Sure I think Tannehill could turn into an interception machine that can't figure out the nuances of the NFL. But I think his Boom potential is bigger also. I think Tannehill has the ability to be someone who gets it and makes all the throws and ends up being the best QB in this draft, as good as Eli Manning.
The Thing about RG3, is I think he has less bust potential, certainly probably won't be an interception machine, won't be as good as Eli Manning at anytime, seems like his boom potential is less. I think they could make the wrong move, get RG3 and have another scrambling qb throwing passes on the run that wins some games but never gets out of the 1st round of the playoffs. While watching Tannehill in a cowboy uniform probably making a superbowl.
Well What makes me think the Cowboys would take him. 1. Someone said Jerry Jones said the difference between the Giants and the Cowboys is Eli Manning. That means Tony Romo isn't as good. Obviously, Romo hasn't helped the Cowboys to winning playoff games, and last year it was old, this year its real old, so if they see a Qb they'll get him. 2. He ( R Tannehill) plays in Texas, and hes a pocket stand still deep ball thrower. And theres that other thing, ... It's Texas. So historically Tannehill fits the steryotype of a Cowboy Qb. So I'm afraid the player I want goes to a team that acually throw the ball deep, and i'll have to watch him succeed while I watch the Browns who I WANT to succeed, sit dead in the water with a fine average qb who won't ever help them turn the corner.
But then if Tannehill comes to the Browns, who's to say they won't ruin him, with this playcalling and offensive philosophy that won't take a shot into the end zone from the 25 yd line once in 4 years... and throws dump off passes checking down to the defender, or plays offense behind the line of scrimmage. So hope they fix the philosophy.
First off, he's going higher, and will PROBABLY be starting from the beginning...
Tennehill may not go till the 2nd round (I hope) and with his injury will get to sit and learn...
I really like Tannehill's height and arm strength, and the fact that he's familiar with the system is just gravy on the potatoes...
I would be completely fine with Drafting Tannehill and Starting Colt next season... ESPECIALLY if we can get Tann in the 2nd round, if we have to take him at 22 I think that puts too much pressure on him to play sooner IMO...
A broken foot that will be healed in a couple months isn't going to keep Tannehill on the bench.
I think Tannehill is risker than RG3 is. Both are raw as passers, but we already know RG3 can make incredible plays running and passing the ball. Tannehill has the ability to do so, but he hasn't done it nearly as much.
I didn't realize he'd be healed so quickly... Hopefully he doesn't rush it and make itworse... Feet are somewhat important to a QB...
I wonder if Sherman hadn't been fired, if he would have come out this year? He seems like somone that could of gone for sure Top 5-10 next year had he stayed...
Comparing RG3 to Tannehill... ven ignoring the costof #4 vs #22, I'd pick Tannehill...
He's got the height, and the size, Maybe I'll be wrong, but I just don't see RG3 overcoming his small stature like very few other QBs have...
not to mention RGIII has three full years of starting at QB while Tannehill only has a year and a half. I think Tannehill is clearly prospect which clearly needs more work on accuracy and ball placement. Griffin will have more to learn in terms of learning a new offense, but when I saw Tannehill play I mostly saw a bunch of dumps and screen passes anyways.
It was definitely a part of their offense, but the main difference I saw was that while Baylor ran a lot of WR screens, they also ran plenty of routes down the field. The two times I saw A&M play, there were a lot of RB screens and a lot of checkdowns thrown. Baylor needed to run WR screens to pull the CBs up so they wouldn't cheat against the deep ball. The couple times I watched Tannehill, he didn't want to throw downfield. I don't know if it was good coverage or bad receivers or just him. It's a bit different IMO.
Posted at 11:30 AM ET, 02/14/2012 NFL draft: Redskins’ best QB option could be Texas A&M’s Ryan Tannehill By Mike Jones
In the last week, we took a look at quarterbacks Peyton Manning, Kyle Orton and Matt Flynn and how they may or may not fit with the Washington Redskins, who desperately need an answer under center.
But one thing’s clear. Regardless of whom the Redskins go with in free agency — whether the Colts release Manning and Mike Shanahan succeeds in luring the future Hall of Famer (if he’s healthy) to D.C., or if it’s Orton, which seems like the safer move, or if Washington elects to re-sign Rex Grossman — Washington must draft a quarterback.
Trading up to draft Robert Griffin III will be costly and Ryan Tannehill (17) might be available to Washington in the second round. (David J. Phillip - AP) Manning won’t have regained full strength by the time free agency begins on March 13, and he might not until closer to August. And if he does, how much longer can he play at a high level? One, two, three seasons?
Orton is solid, but isn’t a franchise savior. There doesn’t seem to be interest on Washington’s part in Flynn, and Grossman struggles to avoid turnovers.
So, it’d be ideal for the Redskins to select a passer in this year’s draft, groom him this year and then turn the wheel over to him next year.
Does it mean trading up to get Robert Griffin III at the No. 2 or No. 3 spot? Or does it mean sitting tight at No. 6, taking the best available player that fills a need – wide receiver, offensive lineman, defensive back – and then going after someone like Texas A&M’s Ryan Tannehill with the second-round pick?
That’s what Mike Shanahan & Co. must decide. Griffin doesn’t have the size of Cam Newton, but is compared to him, and he seems to have the tools that fit what Kyle Shanahan likes to do with his offense.
It would mean swapping this year’s first-round picks, giving away next year’s first-rounder and possibly this year’s second- or third-rounder. But if Griffin is as good as advertised, then Mike Shanahan not only finds his answer at quarterback, but also buys himself some more time in his rebuilding process.
Would the Redskins be able to pull off a trade with the Rams at No. 2? It would seem like their chances are good. Shanahan is close with the new St. Louis coach, Jeff Fisher, who has helped Shanahan out with a quarterback in the draft before. In 2006, Shanahan interviewed Jay Cutler at the NFL Scouting Combine, but never had him out to Denver for a pre-draft workout/interview because he didn’t want other teams to suspect his interest. Instead, he picked the brain of Fisher, who had spent time with Cutler. The Broncos traded up to the 11th spot and selected the Vanderbilt passer.
Could that friendship come into play again?
Or, are the Redskins safer either using the sixth pick or trading down from there, adding more picks to improve their overall depth, using that first-rounder on another need and then getting Tannehill in the second?
There is some intrigue over Tannehill on the Redskins’ part. The coaches hoped for a chance to work with him at the Senior Bowl, but a broken foot kept that from happening, and it appears unlikely that he’ll be healthy in time for next week’s combine. But Tannehill was believed to have a first-round grade before his foot injury. He has good size at 6 feet 4, 222 pounds. Last season, he threw for 3,744 yards, 29 touchdowns and 15 interceptions. A converted wide receiver, he possesses good athleticism and mobility.
Not being able to work out for teams hurts, but Tannehill can still go through the interview processes.
Arizona’s Nick Foles, Oklahoma State’s Brandon Weeden and Michigan State’s Kirk Cousins all did more to eliminate themselves than help themselves at the Senior Bowl, so that limits Washington’s choices, and if it’s not Griffin or Tannehill, then who?
Waiting until next year could be the only other option, but with a combined 11-21 record in two seasons, 2013 is no sure thing for Mike Shanahan and his rebuilding project. But, you don’t just take a quarterback for the sake of taking a quarterback. The Redskins likely would try to upgrade other areas of the roster and hope to rely heavily on their defense and hope that this year’s bridge quarterback, whomever it may be, can keep them in games late in the season so Dan Snyder can tell his team is making progress. web page
Hmm, they think that Tannehill is going to drop into the 2nd round? I wonder what their thinking is? I wouldn't take him high in the draft, because of his inexperience and a couple of other factors, but I would think that a team would take him mid 1st at the latest. he does have the size teams look for, and a decent enough arm.
There have been a few mocks lately with Tannehill going to the Skins at 6 or Miami at 9. I believe he is someone that the Browns are going to be really high on and quiet possibly higher on Tannehill than on Griffin.
I think he is top 10 talent easily. Others think he is 2nd round material. what is really going to be interesting is if you are a GM and you think this guy is franchise material, do you take him like the Vikings did with Ponder or do you wait and take your chance that he falls?
I would take Tannehill at #4, but I don't talk about it much to avoid enraging some people
Trade down with the Skins and take Tannehill at #6 sounds good to me. (Would also enrage some people )
Having Tannehill fall out of the first round made no sense to me. Last year had 4 QBs in the top 15, including the wondrous Blaine Gabbert, and Christian Ponder. Tannehill at #22 sounds like a stretch with this many QB needy teams and such a large gap to the #4 QB.
I have always believed it was about finding the right guy for the right system. You don't have to be the greatest just have to be a great fit. Tannehill is the right guy for this system. If you watch the tape, you will see him over and over make the throws Colt struggles with look simple. The kid is special.
We took Little because he fit this system and was actually playing a very similar system. We took Marecik and Cameron because they fit this system and was actually playing in a very similar system.
It is why I believe we will target guys like Tannehill and Dwight Jones. They fit the system and have played in very similar systems. That doesnt mean everything but it damn sure means a lot. You simply do not have to do the big projections with these guys as you do with the RG3, Blaine Gabbert, Tim Tebow and Colt McCoy and Cam Newton's of the world.
You don't have to build the car from a box of parts, you just have to tighten a few bolts and shine it up. Put Tannehill in a vertical stretch offense and I probably give him a late first early 2nd grade as well. For this offense he has a very high value.
Quote: You simply do not have to do the big projections with these guys as you do with the RG3,
I'm not sure I understand that comment...
R u meaning projections as far as potential success or draft position???
Of the 3 top QB's and it's a unanimous Luck-RGIII-Tanny...Tanny has the MOST projection of potential success...Followed by RGIII for reasons we all know...
Mour...I don't give 2 squats what kind of offense Tanny has run...The FACT is he is one of the most RAW QB's to ever be talked about in Round 1 of any draft...EVER...I think you're blinded by that...
This kid has a TON to overcome...His feeling of pressure sucks...He stares down receivers...And throws into doubles and triples frequently...And that stuff is coming from people who have broken down film of him...That stuff right there is majorly hard to fix because it's gonna get 10 times worse when he sees the Speed of the NFL Game...
Being an inexperienced converted WR is making him a MAJOR PROJECT...If he steps on the field before year 3 I'd put his success rate at about 25% because of it all...And this injury has hurt him bigtime...He needed that SR Bowl...And he needs to partake in EVERYTHING at the Combines...Pro Day...And team workouts...Can he though with the foot???
If he was a 3 or 4 year Starter and showed progress every year...We might be talking about him right there with Luck...Cause he does have Proto-Type QB size for sure...But he's NOT...Which makes him a complete unknown...
I can easily see him being this years Ponder...Someone will take a huge risk taking him way higher than he should go...Like 10-15...I pray it isn't us...We would be much wiser to couple 22 with 4 and move to 2 for Griffin...Much better body of work with him...MUCH higher likelihood of success based on what needs improvement in Griffin's game...
I honestly believe we r gonna see a "Deer in Headlights" when it comes to Tannehill...There is just way 2 much for him to overcome because MOST of it will have to do with adjusting to the Speed of the Game...And I don't think he ever will...Just my Opinion...
I said earlier that I look at Tannehill as a QB who has to be built, pretty much from the ground up. That scares me, especially with a team that has major QB questions ... because he is going to take time to build correctly.
If we had an older, established QB, who he could definitely sit behind and learn, I might consider him. I just don't see him fitting our circumstances.
I believe he is going to be a franchise QB. You don't. Thats fine but dont spin to me that RG3 is the sure thing when I see an undersized QB that runs around for 10 mins while his receiver. Ask Colt how that has worked for him.
He could have 10 years as a starter in the spread but the dude never took the snap from under center, made his read while back pedaling, setting his feet and hitting the open man. Hell you have as much experience running a pro system as RG3.
Quote: I believe he is going to be a franchise QB. You don't. Thats fine but dont spin to me that RG3 is the sure thing when I see an undersized QB that runs around for 10 mins while his receiver. Ask Colt how that has worked for him.
He could have 10 years as a starter in the spread but the dude never took the snap from under center, made his read while back pedaling, setting his feet and hitting the open man. Hell you have as much experience running a pro system as RG3.
I agree Mourg, the "body of work" is a silly argument (see Colt McCoy). Both prospects are raw, but at least Tannehill has some experience under center and in a pro set offense. I still think Griffen might have a higher ceiling (and that is based purly on speculation, because he is a very gifted athlete), but any prospect still comes with a 50/50 chance at making the transition.
Trade just one first round pick to trade up and now you better hope his chances are 100% that he will be "the guy".
It's easy for fans and even dead beat former GM's (Mike Lombardi) to say that you have to get a QB at all cost.
Probably a good reason why they don't have that job today.
If the Redskins do not trade up, then I think Tannehill could be their choice at 6. I know by readying post from their fan site, that most of their fans think that they can get him in the 2nd round, but I think that would be too great a risk to expect him to fall to them in round two.
They really wanted to get a look at him in the Senior Bowl, but his foot injury would not allow for that and he might not be ready for the Combine either (other then interviews). I think that his pro day could be very important in determining where he might be selected. I don't think there is any question that he is one of the top 3 QB prospects in this years pool.
BRADENTON, Fla. -- The boot was off Tuesday and Ryan Tannehill's right arm looked just fine.
The Texas A&M product, who is considered one of the top quarterback prospects in the 2012 NFL draft, said the foot injury that forced him to miss the Senior Bowl is healing fast. Tannehill said he will head to Indianapolis for the scouting combine next week and will go through medical testing and meeting with teams, but will not participate in any of the on-field drills.
Tannehill said he’ll save that for his pro-day workout in late March when he expects to be 100-percent healthy. Tannehill had been in a walking boot until recent days after having surgery to repair a fractured fifth metatarsal a little more than three weeks ago.
The surgery was performed in Charlotte by Carolina Panthers team physician Robert Anderson, one of the best-known foot specialists in the sports world.
“Dr. Anderson basically put a screw in there,’’ Tannehill said. “It’s locked down and I shouldn’t have any problems going forward.’’
Tannehill will stay out of the physical part of the combine, but he wasn’t holding back on the field Tuesday at IMG Football Academy, where he’s taking part in pre-combine training with about 30 other draft prospects.
After fellow quarterbacks Russell Wilson (Wisconsin) and Kirk Cousins (Michigan State) finished the on-field portion of their workday, Tannehill remained on the field for about 15 minutes getting one-on-one work with former Carolina quarterback Chris Weinke, who runs IMG’s football operations. Tannehill said the fracture happened during a January workout at IMG, but Anderson told him it probably was the result of a pre-existing stress fracture.
Tannehill said he plans to come directly back to Bradenton after the combine and begin doing more intense on-field work with Weinke.
“We’ll come back and push it pretty hard,’’ Tannehill said. “I’m thinking I should be getting close to 100 percent by right after the combine and we’ll really jump into the on-field stuff then to make up for the time I missed and get ready for pro day.’’
Tannehill has been mentioned as a possible first-round pick by some draft experts. Last year, Carolina’s Cam Newton and Minnesota’s Christian Ponder came to IMG to work with Weinke and both ended up starting as rookies.
"I knew that Cam and Christian worked with coach Weinke and he helped elevate them,’’ Tannehill said. “That’s what you look for in a QB coach is someone who can take you to the next level. We lost a little time because of the foot, but we’ll make up for it.’’
(Note: I'll have much more from my visit to IMG, including features on some top prospects over the coming days.)
Wednesday February 15, 2012 - 2:21 PM Expert vs. expert: Tannehill's talent, inexperience spark debate
Come April 26, Ryan Tannehill might be forever indebted to Matt Barkley and Landry Jones. Then again, it could be an NFL team down the line that feels fortunate it was lured into a gamble that paid big dividends.
When Barkley announced he was returning to Southern California and Jones opted to remain at Oklahoma for another season, Tannehill became the consensus third-best quarterback in the 2012 draft behind headliners Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III.
The size of the gap between No. 2 and No. 3 is fueling one of the best pre-draft debates.
No one questions Tannehill's leadership ability, selflessness or raw talent.
A decorated high school signal-caller, Tannehill moved to receiver when he lost the battle for the starting quarterback job at Texas A&M in 2008. Sulk? That's not in Tannehill's competitive DNA. He dedicated himself to his new craft, leading the team in receptions for two seasons. More on NFL Draft Related links
Brugler: Risers and Fallers | Mock draft, analysis Rang: Updated Big Board | Mock draft | Draft blog Prospects: Tannehill No. 3 QB, 25th overall
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Given the opportunity to get back under center in 2010, Tannehill began to gain the attention of NFL scouts with good underneath accuracy and a strong arm. It also didn't hurt that he was mentored by coach Mike Sherman, a veteran of the West Coast offense.
While Tannehill was a regular on Big 12 all-academic teams and has stated an interest in becoming an orthopedic surgeon after his playing days, he's still raw as a quarterback prospect.
Tannehill broke a bone in his foot in January, causing him to sit out the Senior Bowl and the injury will prevent him from working out at the scouting combine next week. Scouts won't see him work out on a field until at least the Aggies' March 7 pro day.
But he's also working with noted quarterbacks coach Chris Weinke at the IMG training facility in Bradenton, Fla., to sharpen his mechanics and the finer aspects of playing the position.
It all contributes to a wide array of opinions about where Tannehill should go in the draft.
NFLDraftScout.com Senior Analyst Rob Rang is a Tannehill fan, but doesn't have him going in the first round of his current mock draft, while fellow analyst Dane Brugler has him off the board before the end of the second hour of the April 26 festivities at No. 6 to the Washington Redskins.
So we asked our two experts to explain their opinions on Tannehill, who is NFLDraftScout.com's No. 25 overall prospect.
Rang's take: There are four primary physical characteristics NFL scouts are looking for when projecting college QBs to the next level: size, arm strength, accuracy and mobility.
Tannehill could earn first-round grades from clubs in all four categories, making him the logical third quarterback to be selected. He may have a stronger arm than Luck, the presumed No. 1 overall pick, and at 6-feet-4, 222 pounds, he's far closer to the prototype frame than the 6-2, 220-pound Griffin.
It is a fifth trait in which Tannehill rates significantly below Luck and Griffin. This makes him a high-stakes gamble for the first round. That fifth skill is anticipation, the most underrated element to forecasting quarterback success in the NFL.
The fact that Tannehill played wide receiver for the Aggies for the first 30 games of his career is a testament to his athleticism and selflessness. With only 19 career starts at quarterback, however, he is understandably lacking in the finer techniques of the position. While this isn't intended to suggest Tannehill cannot improve in these areas, it does mean he's not as ready to contribute as his two seasons as a starter for the Aggies might imply.
Tannehill will fire passes before his receivers come out of their breaks, teasing with his developing anticipation. However, he also stares down his primary read and struggles to move on to second and third targets when the defense surprises him. Despite his height and an efficient, over-the-top release, Tannehill had an exorbitant number of passes knocked down at the line of scrimmage because pass rushers were able to read and anticipate where he would go with the ball.
Worse, Tannehill's underdeveloped anticipatory skills showed up in critical moments against the best competition in 2011. After directing the Aggies to double-digit leads against Oklahoma State, Arkansas, Missouri, Kansas State and Texas, Tannehill and his team foundered in the second halves of each of these games, losing all five.
It is difficult to use statistics to prove something as qualitative as anticipation and poise, but consider the dip in Tannehill's touchdown to interception ratio in the first half of these games (8-2) compared to the second half (4-6). Several factors were at play in Texas A&M's collapses, but at least some of the blame must be placed on Tannehill. He might not have lost these games for the Aggies, but he didn't showcase the ability to rally his teammates and win them.
Tannehill appeared to be in position to duplicate the Senior Bowl jump that saw hotly debated quarterbacks Tim Tebow, Jake Locker and Christian Ponder emerge as first-round prospects the past two years, but he broke his foot preparing for the all-star game. The injury and subsequent surgery could keep him from working out for scouts before the draft, making him that much more of a gamble.
Brugler's take: Luck and Griffin are expected to be top-five picks, but don't be surprised when Tannehill is selected soon after -- in the top half of the first round.
He had an up-and-down senior season and his inexperience showed, but Tannehill has all the physical tools with prototypical size, above-average arm strength and underappreciated athleticism. But the No. 1 reason NFL teams are so high on the former Aggie is the game comes naturally to him.
After playing receiver for the first 30 games of his career, Tannehill stepped in at quarterback and won 10 of his first 13 starts, showing steady progression down the stretch.
He displays good passing mechanics with a balanced throwing motion and quick release, squaring his shoulders and delivering a very catchable ball. Tannehill can spin tight spirals to all levels of the field and displays veteran poise and awareness, stepping up and maneuvering in the pocket to buy time and stay calm under pressure. He is extremely intelligent -- on and off the field -- with the competitive attitude and intangibles to hone his craft with strong preparation skills and work habits.
Tannehill also benefited playing in a pro-style offense under the offensive-minded Sherman, who was a head coach with the Green Bay Packers for six seasons (2000-05) and was recently hired by the Miami Dolphins as their offensive coordinator.
Team success in the NFL can be directly linked to the play of the quarterback. This isn't breaking news, but the NFL is a passing league, evidenced by four quarterbacks drafted in the top 12 picks last year regardless of whether they warranted such a high selection.
Tannehill doesn't have the résumé to necessarily warrant an early draft pick, but he won't be drafted for what he has done, but rather for what teams think he can do. He flashes special potential and has the mental toughness to start early as a pro and learn on the fly.
Is Tannehill a finished product? No, far from it.
However, the raw tools are there for him to develop into a quality starter at the pro level -- and maybe more. If you want a polished quarterback, Luck is your guy. If you want a quarterback with big-time upside, then take a long, hard look at Griffin. But if you want a prospect with a little bit of both, Ryan Tannehill might be the player for you.
But you'll probably need a top 20 pick to grab him.
NFLDraftScout.com is distributed by The Sports Xchange. web page
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Funny that this is the exact same debate many of us are having. It is also the same argument these scouts will be having before the draft.
I beleive Tannehill can sit behind Colt McCoy for an entire year and learn while RG3 would not be willing to. I think Richarson would be exactly like Jamal Lewis, and we saw him on the Browns 3 years ago, no playoffs either. Either way I don't think Tannehill falls past Dallas' first round pick.
umm, if Richardson ends up like Jamal Lewis in Baltimore, then I don't think we would complain much. what we saw of Jamal was the end of his run (after a jail stint no less)
Quote: Griffin could still become the second or third pick of this draft on a trade up. He intends to be flexible in his expectations. “There’s no problem sitting behind a guy like Peyton Manning,” Griffin said. “There’s also no problem starting right away like Ponder, [Andy] Dalton and Cam Newton. It’s all about what that team needs — not necessarily what you want. “Everyone wants to play. You’ll never meet a football player who doesn’t want to be on the field.”
I believe Tannehill can sit behind Colt McCoy for an entire year and learn while RG3 would not be willing to. I think Richardson would be exactly like Jamal Lewis, and we saw him on the Browns 3 years ago, no playoffs either. Either way I don't think Tannehill falls past Dallas' first round pick.
Tannehill is a pocket passer who also has the ability to run..he has 4.6 type speed and is 6-4..220. He is a solid prospect, IMO, with a good arm and above average accuracy.
As for RG3 setting a year behind McCoy...he doesn't have the choice.
As for Richardson...it would tough to criticize the Browns if they take him. Some reports I have read claim he is better than Mark Ingram. I look forward to seeing his combine performance.
Quote: the foot injury that forced him to miss the Senior Bowl is healing fast
he's taking a 6-8 week non-weight bearing injury and already out of the boot walking on it..... I hope he's not pushing it to have a proday. Walking on it at three weeks is just crazy. But maybe the original fracture was a minimal crack, i would love to see his x-rays.
I hope Shanahan is targeting Tannehill. If so, RGIII will be there at number 4. I'm still not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing.
The ability the run routes and cut and what have you not, has no similarity to that of standing in a pocket, because, I mean, it's just standing...
That's like saying someone could be a semi-productive QB in college, and go to the NFL as a WR and MVP a Superbowl or something... Never happen... Ever... Evvvveeerrr...
I was surprised upon googling the top 4 QBs from last years draft that they all were around the 4.55 - 4.65 range. Jake Locker being the fastest of the bunch. Surprised me, last year had some speedy cats until Dalton. After Kaepernik you really started to get the plodders like Mallett, Stanzi, Yates all posting above 5.00. Edit: Stanzi was actually 4.93
I wonder if there is something to athleticism and mobility affecting draft ranking after all.
Here is some video on Tannehill. It is obvious the kid has speed but there is much more to like about him that I rarely see in QBs...a quick release.
It reminds me of Marino's release...similar, in that the ball comes out quickly once his eye see the target...very compact arm motion also...the kid has some QB tools.
I think that he has an OK release, but certainly not in the same neighborhood as Marino. Marino was a thing of beauty, with the ball firing out in a fraction of a second. Tannehill isn't close to that. I would say that he has an average release, that is still somewhat inconsistent. Look at the pass right around 0:55 on your video, and you'll see him kind of push the ball sidearm as opposed to firing it over the top. That's not to be unexpected with a kid who is as inexperienced as he is. It seems like he does this on some of the longer throws I have seen too ..... almost trying to get behind the ball as opposed to letting it come off his hand with good follow through. This really affects his velocity and accuracy. Again, not to be unexpected with an inexperienced kid. He does look like he has decent feet, although, again,when he loses his feet, like most QBs, he then also loses his throw.
I think the kid has some foundational tools, and if we were 100% set at QB and could wait for 2-3 years for a guy to develop I might be tempted to take him. Given that we don't have that time frame, then I am not sure he would be the best choice for us.
1 - interesting that most of the best plays from both Qb's were them running.
2 - hard to evaluate RGIII's release because much of his throws were shown in slow mo and the way his videos was cut up was bordering on ridiculous IMO. But I would agree that Tannehill has a little quicker release than RGIII's
It's really hard to tell much from that video, except that RG3 and Luck are almost exactly the same height.
Slo Mo stuff vs live action is always hard to compare. There was one full speed, long TD pass in there where his arm was nothing but a blur. I do think that his release and mechanics can be made more consistent as well.
I would not put RG3's release in Marino's category either.
If Tannehill would eliminate that dip of his shoulder, his release would speed up even more and he would have a lot more velocity on his passes. If you watch the highlights of the LSU game, and compare it to northwestern, there is a huge difference. In one year, he has cleaned up his throwing motion by a good 80% but he still has another 20 to go.
I think that both guys need to work on becoming more consistent with their releases. Griffin gets a little long sometimes, especially when he wants to loft the ball over a DB, and Tannehill gets behind the ball sometimes.
When Marino came out of college, he was almost perfect in his release on each and every throw, I sometimes wonder if his shoulder was built the same way everyone else's was, because he could generate so much power in such a short space. Watching Marino sometimes was like looking at the same piece of tape, because he consistently came over the top and at the same release point/angle. Neither Griffin nor Tannehill are anywhere near that level. I would put them both around average as far as release, when they do things right. Either might be a little above, but they have to get that consistency before I could say for sure.
Jamison Hensley writes for ESPN.com a draft scenario that would change the Browns' situation at quarterback, bringing Texas A&M QB Ryan Tannehill to Cleveland:
Tannehill, a 6-foot-4, 222-pound prospect out of Texas A&M, is expected to be on the Browns' radar with their second first-round pick (22nd overall) if they choose to pass on Robert Griffin III with their first one.
He has been rated as the third-best quarterback in this draft despite missing the Senior Bowl with a foot injury. He also plans to skip the on-field drills at the NFL combine. His first workout for NFL teams will come at his pro day in late March, when he is expected to be 100 percent healthy.
Hensley writes more about the possibility of the Browns drafting Tannehill:
Tannehill appears to be a great fit for the Browns' West Coast offense because he is a traditional pocket passer. Drafting a quarterback late in the first round or early in the second would reduce the pressure of starting him right away.
If the Browns took Tannehill, the plan would probably be to sit him and let Colt McCoy start this season. Team president Mike Holmgren's track record with quarterbacks has been to sit them for a season before elevating them to a starting role. web page
I've been thinking this is the route the Browns might go as well. They might have to trade up from 22 to get him, but I don't see the Browns taking Griffin UNLESS he falls to 4, and even then, I could see them trying to trade back. The part about the QB sitting a year, might be more of a clue than we realize.
So Mourg, do you think we should trade back from #4 to get Tannehill? How far do you think we should go?
Let's say Washington doesn't pick up a FA QB and they trade up to 2 for Griffin. MIA and SEA get FA QBs. How far back do you go and what do you ask for? Who will give it?
Now saw WAS and MIA get QBs in FA and nobody is a threat to trade ahead of the Browns for Griffin. Seattle still needs a QB. Do you still trade back for Tannehill? How far back can you go? What do you get?
The other option I see is trading 22 and 37 to move up. Realistically, that can get you as high as #10. Would you give up both those picks to make sure you got Tannehill? Would that be better than trading #4 and #37 or #4 and #22 to take Griffin and then take a CB, WR, or DE with the other pick?
I don't think so. Griffin is already IMO the better passer. I don't think we have a net improvement to the team trying to go a Tannehill route.
All of the value and where these guys go depend upon free agency. If you want to see over bidding let Manning and or Flynn sign somewhere not in desperate need of a QB like with the Jets or Jags.
I don't see Tannehill being there is the 2nd round. I see someone falling in love with his measurables, and trading up to get him. How high is the only question to me ..... unless he totally bombs at his workout, which I don't expect.
Who knows. I hope we don't overpay for him if we do target him ...... and if we draft him, I hope he works out great. I hope the same for everyone we draft. I think that we'll make a huge mistake if we pass on RG3 though. I've already put myself out there on that opinion, and I stand by it.
The way I see it is if we draft a shiny new QB in this year's draft, people are eventually going to turn on McCoy (deserved or not, doesn't matter), and the rook will get pressed into service. If I were to choose which rookie gets thrown into the fire, I would prefer RG3 vs Tannehill.
Quote: The way I see it is if we draft a shiny new QB in this year's draft, people are eventually going to turn on McCoy (deserved or not, doesn't matter), and the rook will get pressed into service.
I think that with this FO (if the decision to sit a new qb for a season is actually made), McCoy would have to get injured or come completely unglued for that to happen.
Quote: people are eventually going to turn on McCoy
They haven't already?
Actually, if you just look here on these boards, there is just a small but loud contingent that has turned thier back on McCoy.
There is a second group of Vocal Supporters that believe McCoy is the answer.
There is a third Group of folks that are unsure but want to find out and want to see him play for another year.
I fall into the last group.
But that's on here. I suspect that the mix is probably about the same on the Browns official board.
If you look at the media, most are saying that McCoy needs replaced. Very few supporters in the media. Almost none feel he needs more time and give any credence to the shortened prep time last years lock out caused.
I don't have numbers or percentages.. don't care to work that hard to find them.
But, in a very unscientific straw poll, I've been asking anyone and everyone that I meet what they think..
I've not met one person that thinks we should draft a QB high. it's frighteningly overwhelming in support of McCoy. Way more than I ever thought possible given our record last year.
Hell, even my new neighbor (just moved here from Texas) tells me that in Texas, McCoy walks on water and gargles Peanut butter.. he's very much loved. which by the way is the exact opposite of what some on here have said. He did say to me that folks up here need to just give him time and some weapons and he'll be fine. FWIW...
I don't know that's true.. it's just one guys opinion..
So, really, only on here and in the media has anyone truely seemed to turn thier backs on McCoy. (and probably on the main site board but I don't go there anymore so I don't know for sure,, just guessing)
Quote: Hell, even my new neighbor (just moved here from Texas) tells me that in Texas, McCoy walks on water
he did follow in the footsteps of VY and actually out-did him in almost every measure except actually winning the nat'l championship game (but, people here still claim they would have won if he didn't get hurt)
Quote: I don't see Tannehill being there is the 2nd round. I see someone falling in love with his measurables, and trading up to get him. How high is the only question to me ..... unless he totally bombs at his workout, which I don't expect.
Let me start off by saying that I am NOT a Tannehill fan. But I think some team in need of a Qb will move up and that he most likely goes top 10, at worst top 15. JMO
Quote: I'm ok with Tannehill too but not on a trade up from 22....that will cost as much as those 2 spots for RG3...and I'd rather have RG3 then
That is why is why I like trading back out of #4. Drop down 5-6 positions, select Tannehill, and get a 2nd or 3rd rounder depending how far down we go.
Get a starting QB and a starting guard in one move.
I think the question will be can you trade down at all and still get Tannehill with Redskins, Phins, Seahawks and Cowboys spread from 6-14. I didnt think he would be able to work out before the draft with the screw in his foot but considering he is already out of the boot, he will work out and will probably wow. If he is worth anything he will wow at his proday lol.
I thought we could trade down and get him or stay at 22 and get him with no workout but that has changed.
Quote: I think the question will be can you trade down at all and still get Tannehill with Redskins, Phins, Seahawks and Cowboys spread from 6-14. I didnt think he would be able to work out before the draft with the screw in his foot but considering he is already out of the boot, he will work out and will probably wow. If he is worth anything he will wow at his proday lol.
I thought we could trade down and get him or stay at 22 and get him with no workout but that has changed.
No doubt a good point. You're right, he might get taken at #6 by the Skins. It's going to be interesting to see how all of this plays out. It seems like this years draft has more plots then most other years. Maybe you're right. Maybe we should "allow" the Skins to outbid us and just keep our pick at #22 and take Tannehill at #4.
I wonder if we would then need to worry about Miami or some of the others talking to Minnesota?? I wouldn't want to give up a 2nd rounder to move up 1 slot for Tannehill.
I'll tell you what. Most years I am pretty set on what I would like to see, but this year is way different. As you know I have been on Tannehill early just as you, but then when people start talking about Griffin I find myself leaning that way, then another day I entertain the merits to signing Flynn. About the only thing I am not high on is pinning the teams hopes to Colt. That's just not going to work IMO.
We are in a position where we have a legit shot at a blue chip QB prospect, and when you have that chance, you need to pull the trigger. As was illustrated in the article you posted, teams drafting at the top of the draft usually need a QB while teams drafting at the bottom of the draft usually have a good QB. I think that is the stat everybody needs to focus on.
Now it's just determining which route we want to take.
Now I am just rambling out a thought...to me the safest route to take is to sign Flynn and keep our picks to build around him. Flynn may not have the ceiling a Griffin or Tannehill has, but with what he has shown in his limited exposure, he tells me he isn't going to be a flat out bust.
Peen, I don't think we should worry about Miami trading ahead of us for Tannehill, even if he's the guy we want. I think in that case we should stay out of the Flynn bidding and let Miami take him at a decent rate. It will be very expensive resource-wise for them to move up to 3, and if signing Flynn ahead of the draft is not too expensive for them, then it seems natural they would sign him before the draft.
I'm not advocating drafting Tannehill at all, especially at #4, but if HHS decided that was the route they wanted to go, then I would stay out of the Flynn bidding.
I agree with that. There is no real reason to bid on Flynn if we aren't 100% interested and determined to get him.
I am not real excited about Tannehill at 4 myself. It's why somewhere on these pages I said a trade down would be ideal....then Mour had to stir the muck by asking would Tannehill be available if we dropped to say #12 in the draft...that got me thinking, and I am starting to think he won't be there.
Of course I could be wrong here, but deep down I just feel we need a better QB.
Trading up?? Trading down?? Standing pat?? LOl...I'll be glad when this is all over. As stated before, even if I am totally off base, I usually have a pretty defined opinion on how or who the Browns should draft. This year??? Man, it can change hourly, mostly depending on who I talked to last.
I know how we should draft, or maybe more on point, what we should target since we don't have to use the draft to go for a QB, it's just the who that has me a bit flustered.
I think you're correct when you say that the "ideal" scenario would be to sign Flynn and use our picks to help surround him with some talent.
But this ignores two things, that although not set in stone certainly seem reasonable assumptions, those being that Flynn is more likely to sign with his old OC who is now the HC in Miami and that our FO may very well feel upgrading the QB can wait one more year while we restock other positions.
Also, while our ownership has never seemed to mind paying our former Head Coaches long after they are gone I don't know that they've been willing to overpay (which they very probably will have to do) to get the big name FAs that WE covet.
Honestly, I see the FO staying put at 4 and 22 and taking what comes to us unless somebody wows them with a trade down offer that is too good to turn down. Even then I doubt seriously they would entertain moving out of the top 10. I also don't see us moving up, period. (of course, this all goes out the window if the Colts somehow go brain dead and start looking to use Luck to get more picks - something that I think even Jim Irsay isn't dumb enough to do.
It should be an interesting 1st and 2nd round, that's for sure.
It's really tough to say what Miami will do, but between their new coach and their new OC, you have to think they're targeting either Tannehill or Flynn. i don't think they want to give up what it would take to go get RGIII when they have so much familiarity with those other two guys.
And if they still did want RGIII, that would tell me to stay far, far away from Flynn and Tannehill.
Quote: It's really tough to say what Miami will do, but between their new coach and their new OC, you have to think they're targeting either Tannehill or Flynn.
and don't forget their owner who likes the splashiest moves (so perhaps Peyton).
Quote: At this point their opinion on Tannehill is really no more valid than anyone else's, IMO.
why would Sherman working with Tannehill his entire college career and knowing his work ethic, abilities, and flaws as well as anyone possibly could make it not any more valid? absolute? no. but they should have the best grasp of anyone.
Quote: At this point their opinion on Tannehill is really no more valid than anyone else's, IMO.
why would Sherman working with Tannehill his entire college career and knowing his work ethic, abilities, and flaws as well as anyone possibly could make it not any more valid? absolute? no. but they should have the best grasp of anyone.
As may have been the case with Otto, I didn't even think of that....another reason why Tannehill may not be there if we trade down.
Sherman is in Miami? I guess I must have slept the day that happened.
While that would give me pause if they passed on Tannehill (as well as Flynn) I still would give more weight to them passing on Flynn as opposed to passing on the college kid.
I'm just glad it's not me making these decisions. I have trouble deciding between a sausage biscuit and a sausage McMuffin at Mickey D's......
I'm just glad it's not me making these decisions. I have trouble deciding between a sausage biscuit and a sausage McMuffin at Mickey D's......
Come on now.. McGriddle all the way!
I agree though with you - I keep changing my mind with what I want to happen... and really it should be really interesting because there is so much that could happen between free agency and trades.... we'll have to see...
So Browns, if they don't get Flynn, don't get Griffeth (Griffin?) don't get Luck, don't get T annehill, then what?
Go after Wheeden, or Foles, I don't want Foles, I don' t know why, he just doesn't look the part. Hopefully the Redskins fall in love with RG3, he is there at 4, the Browns trade down 2 spots to 6 and get #39 ish , then get Tannehill at 6, or just take RG3 at 4 and the Redskins lose out. Don't even pretend they sign Cousins, that would be stuck on stupid.
Whatever happened to Landry Jones, he went back to school.
If the Browns sign Matt Flynn, even if hes successful will he want to stay in Cle, more than 2 years? Flynn might be the best thrower. If they can't get anybody else, at least try for Kyle Orton, Kyle Orton could beat out Colt McCoy, I'm confident of that. Well at least for half a season anyway.
Quote: If the Browns sign Matt Flynn, even if hes successful will he want to stay in Cle, more than 2 years?
man, you write some funny stuff, but this might be your best comedic work yet.
so, Flynn is going to turn down overtures from Washington, Miami, Seattle, etc. and come to Cleveland. But, then he's going to want to leave in 2 years (so apparently he's going to only sign a 2 year deal with us so he has that option?)
If it was me .... I'd probably look at Weeden in the 3rd/4th round and hope that he turns into a home run if McCoy struggles again next year.
I am not at all sold on Flynn. I am wary as can be about an extremely limited guy coming out of college suddenly becoming a star player ...... basically in 2 appearances in 4 years time.
Quote: If it was me .... I'd probably look at Weeden in the 3rd/4th round and hope that he turns into a home run if McCoy struggles again next year.
I am not at all sold on Flynn. I am wary as can be about an extremely limited guy coming out of college suddenly becoming a star player ...... basically in 2 appearances in 4 years time.
and working with the same team of coaches (Clements and Philbin) who re-worked Rodgers release and tutored him into the QB he is today.
sorry, he's more proven than RGIII and will definitely give better immediate results.
Quote: If it was me .... I'd probably look at Weeden in the 3rd/4th round and hope that he turns into a home run if McCoy struggles again next year.
I am not at all sold on Flynn. I am wary as can be about an extremely limited guy coming out of college suddenly becoming a star player ...... basically in 2 appearances in 4 years time.
and working with the same team of coaches (Clements and Philbin) who re-worked Rodgers release and tutored him into the QB he is today.
sorry, he's more proven than RGIII and will definitely give better immediate results.
However. Flynn was a limited QB coming out of college. He was also horribly inexperienced. This guy was a 7th round pick for a lot of reasons.
He played .... what .... 11 or 12 games in college? He's now also added 2 games as a pro. That's not the guy I want to invest $30 million + guaranteed into personally. The guy has no track record at all. Could he become a great QB? Sure, anything is possible. Is it likely? That's where I have major, heavy duty questions.
Hell, Brian Hoyer in New England has spent a couple of years with the staff that helped develop Tom Brady. Hoyer is an RFA this year. His biggest issues coming out of college were mental. Should teams give him a monster deal too?
it's likely $20mil guaranteed on a 5yr $50mil deal. possibly less.
and, no Brian Hoyer hasn't shown what Flynn has shown in the NFL, he wasn't highly thought of in NE (see drafting Ryan Mallett).
it's possible Flynn busts, which is why you put an opt-out after 2 years (can even draft his replacement in '13 if you want and have him sit/learn for a year). all the while building the team.
to me, it's the best of both worlds. get a new QB with a possibility to take the reigns while also building the overall team. where's the downside?
Quote: The main talked about/available QBs this off-season will be..
Andrew Luck Robert Griffin Ryan Tennehill Matt Flynn Peyton Manning
And the teams that are in need of a QB...
Indy Washington Cleveland (IMO) Seattle (T-Jax? Please..) Miami
5 Qbs, 5 Teams, We already have a who goes where thread going...
I just think the destination of Flynn is basically the key to all of it...
Luck is going to Indy, and RG3 is going top 4 to someone, Basically whoever loses out on the Manning/Flynn sweepstakes...
Part of me knows the risk involved with Flynn, another part thinks he's the real deal..
Then there's this other part, that just wants us to sign him to put all this Draft/QB talk to bed... and up the door for us to trade down...
That's plausible, but I don't know if Manning would be willing to go to a team that's rebuilding and really he would only be a short term solution for any team, so I'm thinking if he is good to play, then he will probably limit his options to playoff caliber teams.
Seattle at #12 is in the worst position to get one of the top 3 QB's in the Draft. Not only would they have to give up more picks to move up in the Draft, but it's going to be hard to find a team willing to drop out of the top 10. With this thought in mind I think that they will be a big player for Matt Flynn and probably their best option for a new starting QB next season.
I agree that Flynn's destination will have an effect on the Draft and I think that one of the 5 teams your listing could be left out at least for the top prospects.
I think Seattle is perfect for Manning, they have a solid defense and running game built, and talent at WR and TE (and I'm assuming Wayne might follow Manning if possible..)
Plus I doubt Pete Carroll wants to be an NFL coach forever, If he can get a guy like Manning, win even just one SB, he can go back to college and rule somewhere forever...
Quote: it's likely $20mil guaranteed on a 5yr $50mil deal. possibly less.
and, no Brian Hoyer hasn't shown what Flynn has shown in the NFL, he wasn't highly thought of in NE (see drafting Ryan Mallett).
it's possible Flynn busts, which is why you put an opt-out after 2 years (can even draft his replacement in '13 if you want and have him sit/learn for a year). all the while building the team.
to me, it's the best of both worlds. get a new QB with a possibility to take the reigns while also building the overall team. where's the downside?
What has Flynn shown you, in college and in the pros that tells you that he can be a successful starting QB? I'm really curious. He's done a Kelly Holcomb/Derek Anderson start ....... but he's only has 13 starts between college and the NFL. He has yet to be really scouted and prepared for. No one has had the need/opportunity to scout his weaknesses, and take away what he does best.
He will almost certainly get a big deal from a desperate team. There will be no 2 year "out". Why would he take that if he doesn't have to? There will be a moronic bidding war. Personally, I hope we stay out of it.
I find it amusing that Miami is supposed to be a big bidder for him ...... and I'd rather have the Dolphins' current starter Matt Moore than Flynn.
As far as the Pats drafting Mallet ..... they knew that Hoyer would probably be moving on before Brady is ready to retire. They had another backup, Cassel, who they turned into a 1st round pick ...... so who knows if they might be able to do something similar again? (and no, I;m not saying that Hoyer would bring a 1st right now, without the starts Cassel had ...... but he might bring a 3rd-4th)
and i don't know but throwing for 400+ yds and 5TDs against a team desperately fighting for playoff seeding is pretty dang impressive.
he's had 2 shots at starting and he's aced both tests. yeah, the defenses weren't great that he faced, but they were better than anything that RGIII has faced, no?
he knows the WCO as he's been in the system for years now.
and yes, there will be an "out" after 2 years. how much guaranteed money do you think he's getting? he hasn't proven more than Cassell, Fitzpatrick, or Kolb have proven. That's why their deals are likely the framework for him. You put the guaranteed money in the front and if you need to, then you get out after 2 seasons.
It's rare for ANY NFL contract not to be able to get out of it quickly if need be (unless you had the misfortune of having a high pick when the deals were ridiculous).
DA had a killer game against the Bengals in his 1st start of the 2007 season as well.
Flynn has nothing to do with RG3. RG3 is a draft eligible player with over 30 starts in his college career. Flynn is a free agent with 12 or 13 starts in his entire college/pro career combined.
I have a feeling that Flynn is fool's gold ...... a guy who performed well under the most ideal of circumstances .... against an overrated defense, and against a team thankful not to be facing Aaron Rodgers, and experiencing the letdown of all letdowns.
I do think that Flynn will wind up with a contract with $30 million guaranteed. I don't want anything to do with him.
One thing I should expand upon from my earlier post ..... I think that Moore is better than Flynn ....... but I wouldn't necessarily want him either as my "ideal" QB.
One thing I should expand upon from my earlier post ..... I think that Moore is better than Flynn ....... but I wouldn't necessarily want him either as my "ideal" QB.
I don't know about that, but I do think Moore played far better then he did for Carolina the year before and Miami can win games with him at QB at least in Daboll's vertical offense.
I still think they will be in the QB market, but they are not in as bad off at QB as some would have us believe if they are not able to land a FA or high draft pick.
Honestly, I don't think it matters. I think that Flynn chooses Miami with as good of an OL as us, a better running game, better WRs and his OC as HC w/ Sherman as OC. Plus, the weather and no income taxes.
I wouldn't want Moore. First, he doesn't know the WCO. He'd have to learn that from scratch. It's supposed to be hard to learn and take years. We get that for "free" with Flynn, not Moore.
Flynn could be fool's gold (though to think the Lions would "let down" in a must-win game is silly - their pass defense was subpar, just leave it there), but RGIII could bust as well. It's not like he doesn't have red flags as well.
And, RGIII has EVERYTHING to do with Flynn and vice versa. Our FO is comparing which option is better to pursue and how much each will cost (in money, draft picks, etc). They are completely linked as far as the Browns are concerned until the day that Flynn signs with someone (since that will happen first).
I'm not going to convince you that Flynn is a smart choice obviously. That's fine.
decided to go back and see what I have written about Flynn in the past.
here's from 2009
Quote: I have seen Flynn for 2 preseason games and in limited live action as well....he looks like the real deal (though who really knows in such limited action). great pocket mobility, plus able to pull it down and run when nothing there. good accuracy on the short throws, good decisions, quick release. his only real problem is that he gets a bit scattered with his accuracy on his deep throws.
If RG3 busts, he busts harder than Tannehill or Flynn because he'll be harder to get any trade from because he's not a pocket passer. ( So what do I think he is then? Colt Mccoy with nitrous who can make "... " more throws, but neither will ever get the game management / killer instinct of putting an opponent out of their misery. What I saw in Tannehill, is He's bad, He's Bad! not very good, but somewhere something looked like killer instinct, like he wants to play a 6 hour game so he has more time to carve up the defense. So he's less likely to succeed, but if he does succeed you really have something. And if Tannehill Busts, he busts as a pocket guy who other teams will give more value for because he's a game manager. ( Kinda David Carr 2.O ) and they'll think they can mold him. Flynn, in the game highlights vs Detroit, he was just making throws and making throws into tight holes of coverage, and he wasn't holding onto the ball very long either. All 3 are fools gold. Who knows maybe the Browns will find someone out of west Utah state, and he'll end up being the next Eric Zier ouf of Georgia.
Quote: If it was me .... I'd probably look at Weeden in the 3rd/4th round and hope that he turns into a home run if McCoy struggles again next year.
I am not at all sold on Flynn. I am wary as can be about an extremely limited guy coming out of college suddenly becoming a star player ...... basically in 2 appearances in 4 years time.
I'll start pimping my boy B.J. Coleman in the 4th round.
Tannehill is a project. He is a second round prospect if he were not a quarterback.
He telegraphs his throws when a pats the ball. He has 19 starts at QB.
He is a good athlete that one day may become a player. However, he is no savior and would require patience to develop. He could flop just as easy as he could succeed.
He way behind Luck and Griffin. Given where the Browns are he is not worth the risk. I believe Griffin is a much better prospect and worth what it takes to get him. I would have no problem giving up pick 22 for Griffin.
Tannehill is a project. He is a second round prospect if he were not a quarterback.
He telegraphs his throws when a pats the ball. He has 19 starts at QB.
He is a good athlete that one day may become a player. However, he is no savior and would require patience to develop. He could flop just as easy as he could succeed.
He way behind Luck and Griffin. Given where the Browns are he is not worth the risk. I believe Griffin is a much better prospect and worth what it takes to get him. I would have no problem giving up pick 22 for Griffin.
So, you think Griffin will be there at 22? For me, even if he was, I'd look to trade the pick away and get what I could get for it.
I don't think that this ranking is deserving of it's own thread and because Tannehill was the biggest gainer, I thought that I would place this in this thread.
For reference; It will be interesting to see how the combine will effect these rankings, so without further ado here is.....
I would have no problem moving up to the number two slot for Griffin using the the 22 pick to get there.
Griffin has terrific skills and the intelligence and character to match. The junk about spread offense and playing under center is meaningless.
This is a world class athlete. Taking a 3, 5, 7 foot drop from under center will be no problem for this kid to learn. It is not like the Browns are going to win the Super Bowl next year.
Next year he will be good. In two or three years he will be a force in the league.
Look at what the Browns gave up for Kosar as a reference point.
I have no idea what people are looking at when evaluating Griffin and then coming away and saying this kid is not a top talent. You have to be blind to not see his skill set.
Rang doesn't like Tannehill and the only reason he has jumped 18 spots is because of actual team interest. As I have been saying for months, dont be surprised if the Browns value Tannehill more than RG3.
I would be astonished if the Browns value Tannehill all that highly.
If you are going to go get an inexperienced QB, you might as well go get Flynn and keep all of your draft picks. Tannehill is not going to contribute to this team fr a year or 2. That's not value for this team. 2 years from now this entire front office could be gone if we haven't found our QB by then.
As always ... JHELHO. (just my ever lovin' humble opinion)
Tannehill is not going to contribute to this team fr a year or 2. That's not value for this team. 2 years from now this entire front office could be gone if we haven't found our QB by then.
At least he has somewhat of an understanding of the WCO. More so then a spread offense prospect and I don't care how successful they where at the College Level.
I think that was part of McCoy's trouble this past season, at the very least a Large contributing factor anyway.
It's a giant leap.
I think that it is more beneficial to any QB, that they learn the regular offense and catering to their needs might also stunt their growth in the long term.
Hey Mourg, Rob Rang uses their (DS) rankings, so it would not surprise me if he had other opinions.
I think that their initial ranking of him at #29 can in part, be due to the let down of expectations of not seeing him in the Senior Bowl.
I don't care if Tannehill has experience in the WCO or not ...... he has a lot of deficiencies that are going to limit his ability to play at an NFL level for a couple of years. He is heavily inexperienced. Like it or not, Cam Newton notwithstanding, most QBs without a great deal of college experience never make it in the NFL. I think that Tannehill has size and measurables, but he doesn't have an elite arm, and he doesn't have elite accuracy in the intermediate to deep passing game. He can be pressured into mistakes. To me he is a huge risk, and one that I would not be interested in taking. You may disagree, and that's your right ...... but I want no part of him, especially in the first.
If someone came on here and said man we gots to get this young QB coming out in the draft. He is probably 6-1 maybe less. He is fast and he has real nimble feet but horrible footwork. He has a real strong arm but he has this quirky release where it is like throwing darts. He has great touch and accuracy on the deep ball but his short to mid stuff needs a lot of work. He is also from the spread and never worked from under center.
Guess what he would be laughed off the board. Now you guys tell me he is the #2 prospect.
As for Tannehill, he has everybit the arm that RG3 has, better accuracy short to mid, better mechanics, better footwork, better size and from a pro system.
Quote: If someone came on here and said man we gots to get this young QB coming out in the draft. He is probably 6-1 maybe less. He is fast and he has real nimble feet but horrible footwork. He has a real strong arm but he has this quirky release where it is like throwing darts. He has great touch and accuracy on the deep ball but his short to mid stuff needs a lot of work. He is also from the spread and never worked from under center.
Quote: If someone came on here and said man we gots to get this young QB coming out in the draft. He is probably 6-1 maybe less. He is fast and he has real nimble feet but horrible footwork. He has a real strong arm but he has this quirky release where it is like throwing darts. He has great touch and accuracy on the deep ball but his short to mid stuff needs a lot of work. He is also from the spread and never worked from under center.
Guess what he would be laughed off the board. Now you guys tell me he is the #2 prospect.
As for Tannehill, he has everybit the arm that RG3 has, better accuracy short to mid, better mechanics, better footwork, better size and from a pro system.
I would ask if you would take a mid to later round flyer on him. If you told me he was going top 5, I would ask when was the last time a 6'1 or less non prototypical QB was drafted that high?
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on February 20, 2012, 11:03 AM EST
The Dolphins are in a better position than any team to know whether Matt Flynn is worth franchise quarterback money.
They are also in a better position than any team to know whether Texas A&M product Ryan Tannehill is a worth high draft pick in April. Dolphins offensive coordinator Mike Sherman speaks highly of his former pupil.
“Like all good quarterbacks he had great poise. Very confident in any system, west coast or not,” Sherman said via Omar Kelly of the South Florida Sun-Sentinel. “Any quarterback has to be confident in his own skin and believe in himself. They always say a great quarterback makes those around him better. I thought [Brett] Favre did that. I think Aaron Rodgers does that. I think Tannehill does that as well.”
Sherman and Tannehill didn’t make the Aggies enough better last year or Sherman wouldn’t have been fired. A former college receiver, Tannehill is a good fit for a West Coast offense at quarterback.
Tannehill’s tools and intangibles will likely make him a first round pick and the No. 3 quarterback in this class. Like Christian Ponder and Jake Locker last year, we expect Tannehill to get pushed up high in the draft because so many teams need quarterbacks.
One of those teams — Miami — might tell us what they are thinking about Tannehill in free agency. If they sign Flynn or Peyton Manning, it’s hard to imagine them taking Tannehill.
If the Dolphins only sign a second-tier player at quarterback, perhaps Sherman has convinced the organization that Tannehill is ready to lead an organization.
Quote: If someone came on here and said man we gots to get this young QB coming out in the draft. He is probably 6-1 maybe less. He is fast and he has real nimble feet but horrible footwork. He has a real strong arm but he has this quirky release where it is like throwing darts. He has great touch and accuracy on the deep ball but his short to mid stuff needs a lot of work. He is also from the spread and never worked from under center.
I would wonder who that person was talking about.
Subliminal message
Is it not implied in the context of the debate?
And YT, you missed my subliminal message.
A few folks have stated that they never thought that Colt McCoy was worthy of his accomplishments at the College level coming from the spread offense. He just did not project well in some of your opinions, based on the fact that he came from a spread offense and therefore his stats where skewed.
Now..... Granted I'll give you the strength of arm, but Griffen is basically the same blank canvas that we had in Colt from an experience stand point at this level, higher ceiling not with standing.
Mentally Tannehill is more versed no matter how you spin it. Has he warts? You bet, but so does any prospect depending on your expectations of them including Andrew Luck.
We've covered that already.
There is little doubt in my mind that Griffen will go before Tannehill ... That is not the issue of debate.
Quote: If someone came on here and said man we gots to get this young QB coming out in the draft. He is probably 6-1 maybe less. He is fast and he has real nimble feet but horrible footwork. He has a real strong arm but he has this quirky release where it is like throwing darts. He has great touch and accuracy on the deep ball but his short to mid stuff needs a lot of work. He is also from the spread and never worked from under center.
I would wonder who that person was talking about.
Ditto.
I don't know where anyone would get that Griffin isn't accurate on the short to medium stuff. The kid completed over 72% of his passes, and did so throwing all over the field. He averaged over 10 yards/pass attempt. That's almost obscene. He has never thrown more than 8 INT in any season. He has gotten better and better as each year has progressed.
That's the stats part.
Griffin has uncanny accuracy, and an arm that allows him to make NFL caliber throws to any level of the field. He can snap off a 15 yard out like it's a 5 yard slant. He is the best deep passer in college football right now IMO. If there's someone who throws a better, more accurate deep ball, I haven't seen him. He has a very quick release, but sometimes gets his arm angle a little out of whack. The ball still flies true though. He is damn near unstoppable when he sets his feet properly. and can fit the ball into any NFL window there is. He has an almost uncanny ability to make plays out of nothing, and can drop a ball into his receiver's hands, even against double coverage. He knows how to buy time to allow plays to develop, and can also get the ball out quickly when necessary. I saw one play where he was pressured, and the camera never left him ....... he was running towards the right sideline, and he whipped the ball out for something like a 15 yard pass to the same sideline so quickly that I literally had to go back and watch it again because the ball came out so quickly that I thought he just ran out of bounds with it.
RG3 does need work on his footwork, but he's not as terrible as you make him out to be. He doesn't always set his feet. It doesn't seem to matter. It will at the next level, and I think that he'll improve in that area as he also adjusts to working more under Center. His overall physical ability is such that he should have no trouble at all learning drops and making those drops as well as any other QB in the league. We also used the shotgun about 47% (IIRC) of the time last year. Maybe we have to start out with a slightly higher percentage at first. If he's making plays, and making plays that count, I'm perfectly OK with that.
I don't see some huge learning curve for RG3 compared to Tannehill because Tannehill doesn't have much experience as it is as a QB. I have seen Tannehill "throw darts" on occassion as well, and in fact, pointed out one such throw in one of mac's highlight videos. There was another such throw as well, but the one I pointed out was him completely getting behind the ball and pushing it out. Tannehill tends to lose accuracy as he goes down the field. He also loses a lot when pressured. That's not a slam. He's an inexperienced QB, and it's to be expected. His footwork looks ok most of the time, but again, when pressured his feet can go all to hell. He is a major project at the NFL level. He has .. what ....... about 20 starts at the college level? (including bowl games) That's a big thing for a QB. He hasn't had the experience that most guys at the top of a draft get.
I like Tannehill's short accuracy, but I don't see a special arm there. I don't see special accuracy at all levels. I see ideal size, but the league is moving towards more and more 6'2" type QBs rather than the 6'4" and up that used to be the ideal. Given the passing rules in today's NFL, a QB has got to be able to make throws to all levels of the field, and with authority. I don't think that guy is Tannehill .... at least not yet. he might get there ...... but he needs a lot of work. I certainly don't see him as a day 1 starter, although some team may throw him into the fire early. I don't think that he'll be ready.
Anyway ...... should be interesting to see which QB does better than the other a few years down the line. I'll be perfectly willing to stand up and say I was wrong if it's not RG3. I've always been willing to take my shots if I was wrong on a player, and I'll do the same if I am wrong here. I don't think I will be though. I have said all along, and I maintain to this day, that I think that this kid has superstar written all over him ....... from his ability, to his demeanor, to his leadership, to his intelligence ....... I think that RG3 will be one of those players who wins multiple Super Bowls, and who helps define an era.
That could just be Weiss saying he was hungry for a bag of chips ...
But in all seriousness. Isn't it the norm for a coach to endorse his players or former players?
I can't really think of a time when a former college coach of a player said BAD things about him.
Even when Pete Carroll drafted Earl Thomas over Taylor Mays (was it two years ago?) everyone said it showed Mays was BAD because Carroll passed up on him.
Was it really that he was that bad (hindsight says yes) or did Carroll just not prefer him?
My point is I feel like these days a coach's endorsement is the norm ... and a lack of an endorsement shows major red flags. I wonder how many former Scarlett Knights Schiano will pick up now in Tampa Bay as a side note.
Agreed. It's like Harbaugh calling Owen Marecic the finest football player he ever had the privilege to coach. Then passing on him for four straight rounds.
A coach is going to publicly praise every former player almost regardless the situation. It doesn't benefit them in any way to do otherwise. What they say behind closed doors and what they do if they make the jump to NFL head coach is what's important
Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill did not participate in drills at the combine due to a foot injury.
INDIANAPOLIS -- It's a near certainty, as it has been for two years now, that Andrew Luck will be the first pick in the draft.
It seems increasingly likely, especially on the heels of Sunday's official 4.41 40-yard dash time, that Robert Griffin III will come off the board next, with his landing spot riding on whatever price the Rams can exact for the second pick.
And here's what else is coming clear: Ryan Tannehill could well be a top 10 pick. At the very least, he's separating himself from the quarterback pack that sits behind Luck and Griffin. Ask NFL evaluators, and you'll hear the consensus building that the Texas A&M prospect is the third guy in this class at the most important position.
"Yes," said one college scout, when asked if Tannehill's the clear cut No. 3. "Assuming he works out well at the end of the month, and that his foot is healed, then yes."
"Not by leaps and bounds," texted a personnel executive, "but yes."
Sources say multiple teams in the top 10 have more than a cursory interest in Tannehill, a 6-foot-4 specimen who was athletic enough to play receiver in College Station before wresting the job under center. Tannehill is not participating in drills at the combine, as he rehabs a foot injury suffered in January, but did go through medical testing and team interviews.
So how does Tannehill see it? He might or might not know this, but the race to be first in the draft appears to be over, with Luck ticketed for Indy. Likewise, Griffin likely will know his fate in the few minutes after Luck comes off the board. All that, though, doesn't mean Tannehill is throwing in the towel.
He does, in fact, seem himself as being in competition with the other two Texans. Can he catch them?
"I'm a super-competitive guy who's going to do everything I can to maximize my potential in the next two months, doing everything I can to impress some teams out there," he told me. "And hopefully one team will fall in love with me and draft me. Definitely, I want to compete with those guys. It's not up to me to decide what order we go in. But definitely, I want to compete, I want to go as high as possible. That's just in my nature to compete, as well it would be with those guys."
Here's the reality: He's not catching Luck. He's probably not catching Griffin either. But simply by interjecting himself in the conversation with those two, he's won the battle, to a certain extent. Beyond just that, if a team in the top 10 is convinced he projects as a franchise quarterback, it's unlikely now they'd pass on Tannehill, based the importance of that spot.
"No one will like him more than Luck," said the scout. "But I wouldn't be shocked if someone likes him more than Griffin. He has prototypical size, arm strength and athleticism. You are betting upside some with him, because he's only been a starting quarterback for a year and a half."
Some clubs like Tannehill more than they did Blaine Gabbert (picked 10th in 2011) or Christian Ponder (12th). Tannehill could rise similarly up the board in April. But he swears that, for now, he's not wrapped up in that, with Luck and Griffin, two guys he followed as a Texas high schooler, grabbing all the headlines.
"That's not for me to decide," he said. "I want to do everything I can, and one day we'll decide who's the best quarterback. Right now, it doesn't matter. We're just trying to prepare for the draft and be the best quarterbacks we can be in a small timeframe. … I'm excited about where I'm at. My foot's rehabbing, and I'm feeling good."
He'll work out in late March in College Station. And he's got two weeks to go in the rehab process, an eternity if you're waiting on something as significant as this.
At this point, it's impossible to know where Tannehill's final destination is. What we know now is he probably won't be waiting long on April 26.
Good ..... I hope that Seattle, Miami, and Washington satisfy their QB desires with Peyton Manning, Matt Flynn, and Ryan Tannehill ...... leaving the path clear for us to get the guy with the biggest superstar potential, RG3.
I can see a scenario where we trade up to #2 for RG3, because no one else wants to go that high, then someone else trades up to 3 for Tannehill.
Quote: And here's what else is coming clear: Ryan Tannehill could well be a top 10 pick. At the very least, he's separating himself from the quarterback pack that sits behind Luck and Griffin.
How is he separating himself? By hurting his foot working out? Because he didn't do anything at the combine.
Quote: Good ..... I hope that Seattle, Miami, and Washington satisfy their QB desires with Peyton Manning, Matt Flynn, and Ryan Tannehill ...... leaving the path clear for us to get the guy with the biggest superstar potential, RG3.
I can see a scenario where we trade up to #2 for RG3, because no one else wants to go that high, then someone else trades up to 3 for Tannehill.
That could be kinda interesting.
Um, if everyone else has a QB... We wouldn't need to trade up...
Hell I'm pretty sure if Washington picks up a FA QB we can just stay at 4, I doubt Stl or Min wants to drop that low...
Quote: And here's what else is coming clear: Ryan Tannehill could well be a top 10 pick. At the very least, he's separating himself from the quarterback pack that sits behind Luck and Griffin.
How is he separating himself? By hurting his foot working out? Because he didn't do anything at the combine.
LOL, Don't shoot the messenger FCOL.
I think he was already considered to be the 3rd QB before the combine.
I just found it interesting that a scout also feels he could be a top 10 selection as myself and Mourg have been saying.
Quote: And here's what else is coming clear: Ryan Tannehill could well be a top 10 pick. At the very least, he's separating himself from the quarterback pack that sits behind Luck and Griffin.
How is he separating himself? By hurting his foot working out? Because he didn't do anything at the combine.
Actually yes. A top 5 QBs natural tendency is to rise up the boards as the draft approaches unless they do something to not look good... the less a QB prospect does the better as far as his draft stock goes because it limits the chances that he will screw something up.
Browns coach Pat Shurmur talks up Ryan Tannehill Posted by Michael David Smith on March 2, 2012, 9:05 AM EST Texas v Texas A&M Getty Images
If the reports that the Browns aren’t enthusiastic about trading up to draft Robert Griffin III are true, does that mean Cleveland has decided against taking a quarterback in the first round of the NFL draft?
Not necessarily. Browns coach Pat Shurmur told Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer that he liked another quarterback he met with at the Scouting Combine: Texas A&M’s Ryan Tannehill. After first saying he was impressed with Griffin, Shurmur then mentioned how much he liked Tannehill.
“I was equally impressed with Ryan,” Shurmur said. “Very intelligent young man. Did a nice job in the interview. It’s important in the interview that they’re able to talk about what they did when we watch their film, and I thought he did a very nice job of that. He was very productive this year after being a receiver. He played receiver for 30 games and quarterback for 21. That’s not always easy to do.”
If the Browns are considering taking Tannehill with the fourth overall pick, then they’re a lot higher on him than anyone realizes. And if the Browns are a lot higher on Tannehill than anyone realizes, Shurmur probably wouldn’t be talking up the Browns’ interest.
But Tannehill remains one of the most interesting players in this year’s NFL draft. With Andrew Luck looking like a sure thing to go first and Griffin looking like a sure thing to go second, the biggest question at quarterback is where Tannehill, widely regarded as the third-best quarterback in the draft, will end up.
I would be interested if I heard a report from an anonymous source. From Pat (who will soon be known as one of the top coaches in the NFL), he isn't going to tip their hand. If you ask him about any of the top players he will talk well of them. He isn't going tell us anything.
I read that article and then read what a Browns fan posted after and he was upset that Pat wasn't showing interest in RG3. To him, all I can say is
Quote: If the Browns are considering taking Tannehill with the fourth overall pick, then they’re a lot higher on him than anyone realizes. And if the Browns are a lot higher on Tannehill than anyone realizes, Shurmur probably wouldn’t be talking up the Browns’ interest.
LOL.. this is very true. But they talk up almost all of the top prospects because they don't know yet which one they will end up with... you don't want to end up drafting a guy in the top 10 and be on record a month before questioning his skills.
Quote: If the reports that the Browns aren’t enthusiastic about trading up to draft Robert Griffin III are true,
I probably just missed it but when was this reported. I mean, I didn't see that they were gaga over him, except in media reports reprinted from other media types.. But I also didn't hear anything about them NOT being enthusiastic either?
There were a couple of reports that the Browns had inquired about the cost of trading up but had been weirdly disinterested or something to that effect.
it means that the person in the media that wrote that couldn't understand why the Browns weren't overtly crazy-interested in the idea like everyone in the media says they should be.
Well ..... if it's like other years, the combine meant very little to the Browns overall. Their biggest test will be how the QBs they are interested in do in the personal team visits ..... but these guys seem to make up their minds (ala Haden) well in advance of those events, using them more simply for confirmation that anything else.
Agreed. I recall Heckert (or was it Savage??) saying something to the effect of they pretty much know a player by the end of the season, and they just use the combine to confirm what they feel they think a guy can do.
Quote: I saw it somewhere, but I figured its all BS. Like he is gonna say...."We want RG3 and we'll do whatever it takes to get him"
I guess I just missed it then.., OK
back to Tannehill.. I've seen mocks where he's considered to be anywhere from the 10 pick in the first round, all the way to the middle of the 2nd round.
I saw those clips of him that someone posted the other day and to be honest, that wasn't all that great.
If the browns are "truly" interested in him, at what pick do any of you feel that it would it be "too high".
Could it be that Tannehill is this years McCoy.. meaning there was more than one mock that felt that McCoy would go in the first and he didn't go until the 3rd round.. Could Tannehill be another one of those kinda draft day drops?
Well then Heckert is an idiot and should be shot by a firing squad.
I don't know if that's sarcasm (knowing you like I do, I don't believe it is) but I do know it's damned accurate.
Good prospect? Sure. 4th-pick-in-the-draft good? Hel no.
Speaking in general terms here, Tannehill looks to me like that guy who is a notch below the higher percentage guys who rockets up the draft boards because of how desperate teams are for QB's.
Quite frankly, sure, I see the tools, but he scares me as a first-rounder. I've watched the same amount of video on him as I have on Griffin, and I see less to like. If he's taken by ANYONE in the top-10, they are gonna be throwing major dice.
Quote: Quite frankly, sure, I see the tools, but he scares me as a first-rounder. I've watched the same amount of video on him as I have on Griffin, and I see less to like. If he's taken by ANYONE in the top-10, they are gonna be throwing major dice.
I agree. Someone will draft him high just because they don't "think" he'll be available later. If the Browns draft him, I hope to heck it's not at 4. I would say that would be out thinking ourselves.
If the price for Griffin is too much, I wouldnt mind trading back to 8 or 9 adding a couple picks picking up Tannehill and getting a wide reciever at 22
Sometimes you gotta take the wrong player, in the draft to be successful, I know it sounds idiotic but I think it works.
First of all, About this stufff reports the Browns were uninterested in trading up for RG3, because someone asked in another thread, " who said that" ... Well on Feb 28 when the Rams publicly started to shop the #2 pick there were radio reports, not radio chatter, on local radio here, ... so the commercial break " update" report said , " the Browns are "" suprisingly uninterested"" I'm sure I heard that phrase, and also, " some" of the coaches wouldn't know how they would use him," but it's radio, which can't be referenced on here, but a radio " report" not radio chatter . And like they just posted, it's probably just suprising to the reporters that the browns aren't overly enthuisiastic to move up to 2 like all the talking heads think they should be.
back to the " take the wrong player" point I just made.
Deryious Heyward Bey, Raiders, This was an absolute TERIBBLE! draft pick, the guy couldn't catch a cold, he was running horrible, EVERYTHING looked like he should fall in the draft, but He's been a good player for them and it's worked out for them.
That's exactly why I'd take Tannehill at 4, or if a trade back 2 spots to 6 and try to take him there, and I'll agree everyone will be saying how AWFUL it might be, but for the Browns in about 200 days when the 2012 draft is out of everyones narrowly focused minds, I think Tannehill will have been the right move.
Why?
Because RG3 is an all in bet, meaning you start completely over and the pressure to dump McCoy will be there.
Tannehill can be just as + - as RG3, and you can keep McCoy for his 3rd year And at the end of the season when you don't have to " dump" either Tannehill or McCoy you have more leverage in getting value for one of them.
Today! If I had to make the final call, I'd take Tannehill at 4, or RG3 at 4 or Luck at 4, or if they go 1-2-3- then Blackmon at 4 and don't trade up for ANYBODY!
Barkley and Landry Jones are both going to be in the draft next year. RG3 would not be the best Qb in the draft next year Luck is going to go #1, and all this lose games for the chance to get him. So RG3 is not the best QB in the draft this year. He's not hall of fame ready yet, There's probably No qb in the NFL I'd give 2 first rounders for + more at this point.
Alright that's a stretch, but I don't like the idea of 2 firsts + for RG3, No Way.
Quote: Agreed. I recall Heckert (or was it Savage??) saying something to the effect of they pretty much know a player by the end of the season, and they just use the combine to confirm what they feel they think a guy can do.
With that said, I think that there can still be cases where a kid can open some eyes and get them to go back and take a second look at his tapes..... but, I'd wager real money that the smart scouts and GM's go mostly off of what they see on tape and NOT what happens at the combine.
Well then Heckert is an idiot and should be shot by a firing squad.
I don't know if that's sarcasm (knowing you like I do, I don't believe it is) but I do know it's damned accurate.
Good prospect? Sure. 4th-pick-in-the-draft good? Hel no.
Speaking in general terms here, Tannehill looks to me like that guy who is a notch below the higher percentage guys who rockets up the draft boards because of how desperate teams are for QB's.
Quite frankly, sure, I see the tools, but he scares me as a first-rounder. I've watched the same amount of video on him as I have on Griffin, and I see less to like. If he's taken by ANYONE in the top-10, they are gonna be throwing major dice.
I see the same....but the question we and the FO have got to answer is this: how does this Tannehill look compared to RG3 after 20 or so starts? Many say that RG didnt look like a 1st rounder until last season...the question is: does Tannehill, the 20 game starter, look as good as RG the after 20 starts?
Tannehill is farther along than RG3 after 20 starts but that has a lot to do with the 30 or so games that he played at receiver and he was taking in film sessions with the Quarterbacks. It really boils down to how much growth do you believe he has left in him.
I think with his physical tools you have a lot of people in Berea going we can make this kid into something special. The big advantage is in that they are all speaking the same language. That has to make a good impression on these coaches after spending so much time with spread QBs.
Colt, Bradford, Cam, Tebow, Gabbert, Locker, RG3, Osweiler\ is and endless supply of Spread system QBs. I cant help but believe he had to make a great impression during his interviews.
Quote: Sometimes you gotta take the wrong player, in the draft to be successful, I know it sounds idiotic but I think it works.
First of all, About this stufff reports the Browns were uninterested in trading up for RG3, because someone asked in another thread, " who said that" ... Well on Feb 28 when the Rams publicly started to shop the #2 pick there were radio reports, not radio chatter, on local radio here, ... so the commercial break " update" report said , " the Browns are "" suprisingly uninterested"" I'm sure I heard that phrase, and also, " some" of the coaches wouldn't know how they would use him," but it's radio, which can't be referenced on here, but a radio " report" not radio chatter . And like they just posted, it's probably just suprising to the reporters that the browns aren't overly enthuisiastic to move up to 2 like all the talking heads think they should be.
back to the " take the wrong player" point I just made.
Deryious Heyward Bey, Raiders, This was an absolute TERIBBLE! draft pick, the guy couldn't catch a cold, he was running horrible, EVERYTHING looked like he should fall in the draft, but He's been a good player for them and it's worked out for them.
That's exactly why I'd take Tannehill at 4, or if a trade back 2 spots to 6 and try to take him there, and I'll agree everyone will be saying how AWFUL it might be, but for the Browns in about 200 days when the 2012 draft is out of everyones narrowly focused minds, I think Tannehill will have been the right move.
Why?
Because RG3 is an all in bet, meaning you start completely over and the pressure to dump McCoy will be there.
Tannehill can be just as + - as RG3, and you can keep McCoy for his 3rd year And at the end of the season when you don't have to " dump" either Tannehill or McCoy you have more leverage in getting value for one of them.
Today! If I had to make the final call, I'd take Tannehill at 4, or RG3 at 4 or Luck at 4, or if they go 1-2-3- then Blackmon at 4 and don't trade up for ANYBODY!
Barkley and Landry Jones are both going to be in the draft next year. RG3 would not be the best Qb in the draft next year Luck is going to go #1, and all this lose games for the chance to get him. So RG3 is not the best QB in the draft this year. He's not hall of fame ready yet, There's probably No qb in the NFL I'd give 2 first rounders for + more at this point.
Alright that's a stretch, but I don't like the idea of 2 firsts + for RG3, No Way.
Heyward Bey has not ever approached the level one would expect from a WR taken, I believe 7th overall. Even this year with 64 catches for 975 yds and 4 tds. He is/was still a terrible draft pick as of today in my opinion.
i don't know if Tannehill is or is not farther along after 20 starts than RGIII, but RGIII got to have a bunch more starts against college competition to refine his skills more, so it's not like that matters.
Quote: If the Browns are considering taking Tannehill with the fourth overall pick, then they’re a lot higher on him than anyone realizes. And if the Browns are a lot higher on Tannehill than anyone realizes, Shurmur probably wouldn’t be talking up the Browns’ interest.
LOL.. this is very true. But they talk up almost all of the top prospects because they don't know yet which one they will end up with... you don't want to end up drafting a guy in the top 10 and be on record a month before questioning his skills.
There's a good hand of poker being played ..first remember how Shumur was glowing about Griffith a few months ago before Baylors big game..then after that ..the Browns grew very cool about the QB's..and even looking disinterested to the Rams about him..now we here they have a offer on the table for him..next Shurmur is talking up Tannehill..so ojne of two things are in play..the Browns want the Rams to sweat.Everyone ones knows we have the best ammo to get Griffith,but the asking price today is too high..the Rams will have to back off a bit for them to get the Browns offer. Mentioning RT makes them think the Browns will go in another direction. While it is possible they really do like him ,I think it's to get other teams to bite and come up to 4,knowing thats too high to select him. So the Browns are now their hand in this cat n mouse game and want to take leverage away from the Rams.
When was Shurmur talking about Griffin before the draft season opened, and Griffin declared?
If he did too much specific talking about him, the team and he could be fined, and they could lose draft picks, because teams are forbidden to talk about underclassmen who have not declared for the draft.
Quote: If he did too much specific talking about him, the team and he could be fined, and they could lose draft picks, because teams are forbidden to talk about underclassmen who have not declared for the draft.
I just remember Shurmur saying that RGlll was a good, athletic QB and could play in any system.
Nothing to get fined over. He didn't say much as I remember.
It was in a interview he had before Baylors bowl game(?) ..he said he liked his skills a lot and he was going to watch him play..he was very open about him..but after that the Browns went on lockdown about him.
Quote: It was in a interview he had before Baylors bowl game(?) ..he said he liked his skills a lot and he was going to watch him play..he was very open about him..but after that the Browns went on lockdown about him.
yeah, but that's the kinda stuff they say about all the Qb's coming out of college..
Anyway, I don't think you can trust anything coming out of any team this time of year. Can't put a whole lotta stock in anything right now..
No this was a bit different Daman,draft season hadn't started yet..all he needed to say was he was going to check him out.No considering Shurmur's nature he was actually excited about the prospect..and I noted the Browns became very quiet after that..as if he had spoken when they hadn't wanted him to..I know all about the deceptive games,but this wasn't time for that,the college season wasn't even over.
Quote: I see the same....but the question we and the FO have got to answer is this: how does this Tannehill look compared to RG3 after 20 or so starts? Many say that RG didnt look like a 1st rounder until last season...the question is: does Tannehill, the 20 game starter, look as good as RG the after 20 starts?
I'd be lying if I said I could answer that. I don't have access to video like I did twenty years ago. Thank God for Youtube, hehe. Still, there isn't much "old" video on Griffin for me to make an informed comment comparing the two. If I did, it'd just be lying.
Out of fairness to Mourg, (screw Tannehill, I don't owe him jack ) I decided to go back and watch everything I could find on Tannehill from 2011. There are vids of him from 2010, but that would be selling the kid short so I skipped those until after I'd seen the 2011 stuff. I was hoping I'd see something that I'd missed before. So what did I see?
Lemme get the good stuff outa the way first. Yes, he has an NFL arm, size, and measurables. He throws a VERY tight spiral and has a compact release. He has grade-A wheels (would be A+ if it weren't for the two guys in front of him this year D'oh!) and throws decently on the run.
Now the bad.
Very little difference between the guy from 2010 and the guy from 2011. That is a MAJOR red-flag for me because I can usually at least attempt to make an argument that says if any QB had NFL-quality coaches teaching him, big strides would be made. Well, Sherman is so over-qualified to be a college head coach it's sickening. Furthermore, he's so damned young in terms of knowing the position that he shoulda made big strides regardless of coaching just because he was so raw. I didn't see that at all.
I was hard pressed to find one single play where Tannehill came off of his first read and went to his second. I never saw him go to a third. That's alarming. He stared down his primary and never came off of that guy.
When pressured, his throws became terribly erratic and his decision-making suffered badly. That says he doesn't really understand the position. He only knows where he's supposed to go with the ball out of the gate, but doesn't know what to do if the first read isn't there. If he hasn't made that stride between 2010 and 2011, he isn't going to make it between 2011 and his rookie year in the NFL.
When scrambling his mobile accuracy went down more than Griffin's or Luck's does. I cannot say whether it'll improve over time or not.
All this did was reaffirm what I'd thought before, which is that he's more Chad Henne than anything else. If you're going to take several years to become a #1 QB in the NFL, you're not worth a top-15 pick. If he goes early, it's because a team is desperate and over-pays to get him. I'd grade him ahead of where I had Quinn, but not by much, which means he's a middle-to-late 2nd rounder. Even if we stuck at #22 and took him, I'd still say it's a reach.
I thought his greatest improvement was in footwork and mechanics which resulted in a quicker release. Still has a slight dip to his shoulder that I hate. When you dip the shoulder like that you lose velocity on the ball.
Any Youtube Video can be authored to show good or bad and a half truth is as good as a lie in my book. Your not getting enough of the bigger picture to come to any conclusions on.
"he's more Chad Henne"
That's a terrible comparison imo.
Chad Henne has a noodle for an arm.
That's unadulterated propaganda
You'll have to do better then trying to discrediting Tannehill to make Griffen look more appealing to trade up for.
Quote: I thought his greatest improvement was in footwork and mechanics which resulted in a quicker release. Still has a slight dip to his shoulder that I hate. When you dip the shoulder like that you lose velocity on the ball.
Yes , but now compare his throwing mechanics to that of Griffen's.
Quote: Any Youtube Video can be authored to show good or bad and a half truth is as good as a lie in my book. Your not getting enough of the bigger picture to come to any conclusions on.
I don't use highlight video's. Idiots use those. I only use edited video's that show every offensive throw of every play in a game.
Quote: "he's more Chad Henne"
That's a terrible comparison imo.
I didn't say he has Henne's arm. He's Chad Henne when it comes to being ok with the first read then falling apart when he has to start making progressions.
Quote: You'll have to do a better then trying to discrediting Tannehill to make Griffen look more appealing to trade up for.
That argument isn't for me to make. I stated what I saw from Tannehill and how he compares to other QB's.
Any QB can be Coached and with more experience learn to go threw his progressions ... to me that is not an inherent flaw or something that can't be improved upon.
Quote: It all boils down to what the FO wants to do with whomever they may draft(if they do)
If they want someone to start RIGHT NOW, while not perfect, RG3 IMO is better prepared to start day 1..
If they want someone to sit behind Colt for a year, you go with Tannehill IMO and save yourself some draft picks...
Hell with Tannehill you might be able to trade down (slightly) and grab some extra picks...
Unless someone like Miami misses out on both Manning and Flynn and goes super desperate and trades up to grade Tannehill at 3...
I don't think that you should base drafting a QB on weather or not he can start as a rookie.
You should base your opinion on whether or not you think that he has what it takes to start in this League at some point in his development.
Rodgers is a perfect example ... he would have been a train wreck waiting to happen if he was asked to shoulder the load as a rookie, but that did not make him a bad selection.
I dont get the whole RG3 is a day 1 starter stuff. He never worked from under center, didnt have a playbook, 1 read offense, held the ball waiting for receivers to come open instead of throwing them open.
That's not to say he cant do it but these are some big issues, he must overcome as a rookie.
Thanks for the breakdown Toad...what you wrote reminds me an awful lot of Gabbert...has it all, but something's missing/not there yet....I agree that Henne is a similar type QB, that's probably why I like him as a DA-like backup sleeper pickup in FA (just depth though, make no mistake)
@Mourg
I'm probably 1 of the few on record who wants to sign a stop gap in FA (Campbell...or at least Orton) AND draft RG3 ("ok" with Tannehill too....you're going to take the flak anyway if he busts, lol)...I don't want another "hand it to the youngster" QB starter...make him earn it...if he is as good as Campbell, then start and develop him...until then start the FA...
why not Colt instead of a FA? Because the FO has talked him up too much already and if you allow him to battle a high pick it just leads to fan and locker room splitting....maybe they drafted him as a long term backup, but they messed this plan up last season...that ship has sailed now...I don't want another "Wallace" backup, who just waits for another chance to start and maybe feels betrayed by the FO because he was talked to like the next big thing before last season....Colt is likeable and he would compete, I get it...but you underestimate the fact that he was coddled all through College and here too after Mangini was gone....that'd be a completely new situation for him and I don't wanna find out how he reacts, so I would trade him for whatever late round cond. pick I can get...I even think there's a good chance he would still be a good teammate but I fear the homers more in this...I don't want to mess up our top pick QB because some homers chant for Colt after some bad games from the rook and I don't want fans to cry over spilled milk (Colt never got a fair chance etc)...I just think if we upgrade on Colt through the draft, he must go...clear cut
I don't think that you should base drafting a QB on weather or not he can start as a rookie.
I didn't neccesarily mean JUST based on that, I guess I should of clarified...
If the Browns feel RG3 and Tannehill over time grade out evenly, then based on how this draft is panning out, wouldn't you take the guy that costs less? Maybe he has to sit for part of this year, who knows...
And drafting RG3 and not starting him is just asking whoever you do start to get crap slung at him constantly... Especially if you're trading up for him...
Thats not just RG3 though, IMO in today's NFL rarely are people going to draft a QB high and "have time" to let him sit. Coaches don't have that luxury..
Now that the media has inflated his public perception as that of franchise savior, he and his team are going to have to either make a publicly difficult decision to keep him on the bench...or he's going to come in and play and see how it goes.
I don't think that you should base drafting a QB on weather or not he can start as a rookie.
I didn't neccesarily mean JUST based on that, I guess I should of clarified...
If the Browns feel RG3 and Tannehill over time grade out evenly, then based on how this draft is panning out, wouldn't you take the guy that costs less? Maybe he has to sit for part of this year, who knows...
And drafting RG3 and not starting him is just asking whoever you do start to get crap slung at him constantly... Especially if you're trading up for him...
Thats not just RG3 though, IMO in today's NFL rarely are people going to draft a QB high and "have time" to let him sit. Coaches don't have that luxury..
If I'm the Coach ... what the sentiment of the fans are holds no weight with me, my only concern is what I feel is best for the future of the team and said player.
If we Draft Griffen. I would not say that it is a must that he start as a rookie over Colt unless he has shown he is truly ready.
True, head Coach's don't always have that luxury, but Shurmur will here. He will have the support of the FO in this area.
Quote: I'd probably say that for every QB in this draft except for Luck.
I'm in complete agreement with you and Mourg in that regard. Luck is the only QB who can walk right into the league and start. RG3 and Tannehill shouldn't come in and start. The good news is that Holmgren doesn't strike me as the kinda guy who will cave and put one of these rook's in right outa the gate. Now towards the end of their first year? Sure, get some experience for the guy heading into the second year.
I'd also say there's bound to be a hint of truth in what Dj says about a QB competition. There will be a faction who still love McCoy. However, I don't believe that'd be a big deal if Griffin were brought in. He's just as likable as Colt and would help people forget about him. Tannehill, on the other hand, doesn't have that "wow!" factor so the odds he'd not be able to shake the "McCoy factor" are much greater. I think if we took Tannehill, it'd be better to ship McCoy out. Griffin? Nah, keep McCoy.
Quote: I see the same....but the question we and the FO have got to answer is this: how does this Tannehill look compared to RG3 after 20 or so starts? Many say that RG didnt look like a 1st rounder until last season...the question is: does Tannehill, the 20 game starter, look as good as RG the after 20 starts?
I'd be lying if I said I could answer that. I don't have access to video like I did twenty years ago. Thank God for Youtube, hehe. Still, there isn't much "old" video on Griffin for me to make an informed comment comparing the two. If I did, it'd just be lying.
Out of fairness to Mourg, (screw Tannehill, I don't owe him jack ) I decided to go back and watch everything I could find on Tannehill from 2011. There are vids of him from 2010, but that would be selling the kid short so I skipped those until after I'd seen the 2011 stuff. I was hoping I'd see something that I'd missed before. So what did I see?
Lemme get the good stuff outa the way first. Yes, he has an NFL arm, size, and measurables. He throws a VERY tight spiral and has a compact release. He has grade-A wheels (would be A+ if it weren't for the two guys in front of him this year D'oh!) and throws decently on the run.
Now the bad.
Very little difference between the guy from 2010 and the guy from 2011. That is a MAJOR red-flag for me because I can usually at least attempt to make an argument that says if any QB had NFL-quality coaches teaching him, big strides would be made. Well, Sherman is so over-qualified to be a college head coach it's sickening. Furthermore, he's so damned young in terms of knowing the position that he shoulda made big strides regardless of coaching just because he was so raw. I didn't see that at all.
I was hard pressed to find one single play where Tannehill came off of his first read and went to his second. I never saw him go to a third. That's alarming. He stared down his primary and never came off of that guy.
When pressured, his throws became terribly erratic and his decision-making suffered badly. That says he doesn't really understand the position. He only knows where he's supposed to go with the ball out of the gate, but doesn't know what to do if the first read isn't there. If he hasn't made that stride between 2010 and 2011, he isn't going to make it between 2011 and his rookie year in the NFL.
When scrambling his mobile accuracy went down more than Griffin's or Luck's does. I cannot say whether it'll improve over time or not.
All this did was reaffirm what I'd thought before, which is that he's more Chad Henne than anything else. If you're going to take several years to become a #1 QB in the NFL, you're not worth a top-15 pick. If he goes early, it's because a team is desperate and over-pays to get him. I'd grade him ahead of where I had Quinn, but not by much, which means he's a middle-to-late 2nd rounder. Even if we stuck at #22 and took him, I'd still say it's a reach.
I'm not disagreeing with you, I've never bothered to watch Tannehill and I have no horse in this race. But, my question to you is, how, from simply watching recorded TV footage, can you exactly tell what a QB's progression is? How do you know definitively what his 1, 2, and 3 reads are? How do you know what the play design is?
The main reasons I'm asking is that a) I'm doubtful that any normal fan could be accurate in this, but much more importantly, b) I would *love* to be able to do this myself, so please share how you do it if you have a methodology for it.
OK, it's only two games, but here's what I was able to find on YouTube for the "every Pass/Run" for Tannehill from this year. I didn't think it would be fair to evaluate him on the previous year vs. LSU (unless he did great, then I'd check it out.)
The biggest thing I hear going for Tannehill is about his experience with a pro style offense and taking snaps under center. He are his "every snap" vs. Northwestern and Arkansas for this year.
Here are ALL of the passes completed or dropped which were snapped from under center that weren't screens or dumps.
dropped skinny post/slant one pass on 10 yd out route one slant route threw behind wide open Fuller on deep pass for TD. good play action, receiver wiiiide open
Here are the things that I really didn't like from this clip:
terrible pass rolling out right at LB, dropped INT underthrew TE on PA rollout, INT frequently missed on dumps and screens
Again, all the completed passes or drops from under center that were not dumps or screens:
10yd comeback complete after stumbling in 5 step drop underthrown pass not caught on hook, WR slid to ground to try to catch it nice throw on hook route for 8 yd gain to covered receiver
Things I really didn't like:
waaaay short on deep pass (10 yd underthrown) for INT missed wide open swope on rollout right off of play action. No defender within 7 yards, receiver only 15 yards from QB ran on 3rd and ten with 1:21 left in 4th quarter in Ark territory down 7 with no pressure!
I also found a highlight package for the Baylor/A&M game this year. I'm not going to knock the quantity of passes completed from under center since it's not an every-snap package.
I did see more plays that I liked here from under center:
nice cross to swope around 1:15 nice pass to covered swope over middle at 5:20 nice deep comeback off of play action at 6:40 underthrown deep pass to receiver who split 2x coverage, WRs beat DBs by 10 yards
Also saw Griffin @ 4:40, PA from under center, nails wide open #16 in stride.
The point of all this: Tannehill gets a lot of credit for "playing in a pro style offense" and taking snaps under center. He allegedly has good footwork. I'm not an expert in that, but one of the six completed passes I saw from under center (again, not counting screens and dump-offs) across TWO FULL GAMES he stumbled and almost sacked himself in a 5-step drop.
Griffin gets knocked for his wide receivers being too open, but here two of Tannehill's six completions from under center (vs. NW and ARK) were to receivers 10 yards open. One of those passes was behind the receiver and should have been a TD. There were also some missed passes to wide open receivers.
He did look considerably better in the Baylor game under center.
If those two games were a good sample of A&M's offense for the season, then they take about 75%-80% of their passing snaps from shotgun. Here is Tannehill's completion percentage for the year, and how it matches up against the rest of the Wild West conference:
Code:
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT 1** Robert Griffin III, QB BAY 402 291 72.4 2 Brandon Weeden, QB OKST 564 408 72.3 3 Seth Doege, QB TTU 581 398 68.5 4 Jordan Webb, QB KU 281 179 63.7 5 James Franklin, QB MIZZ 376 238 63.3 6 Landry Jones, QB OKLA 562 355 63.2 7*** Ryan Tannehill, QB TA&M 531 327 61.6 8 Collin Klein, QB KSU 281 161 57.3 9 Steele Jantz, QB ISU 259 138 53.3 10 Jared Barnett, QB ISU 220 110 50
And QB rating within the Big XII
Code:
RK PLAYER TEAM RAT 1** Robert Griffin III, QB BAY 189.5 2 Brandon Weeden, QB OKST 159.8 3 Landry Jones, QB OKLA 141.6 4 James Franklin, QB MIZZ 139.9 5 Seth Doege, QB TTU 138.9 6*** Ryan Tannehill, QB TA&M 133.2 7 Jordan Webb, QB KU 126.7 8 Collin Klein, QB KSU 125.6 9 Steele Jantz, QB ISU 106.8 10 Jared Barnett, QB ISU 99.4
And then here he is in comparison with the rest of the NCAA:
QB Rating: Code:
RK PLAYER TEAM RAT 1 Russell Wilson, QB WIS 191.8 2** Robert Griffin III, QB BAY 189.5 3 Kellen Moore, QB BSU 175.2 4 Case Keenum, QB HOU 174 5** Andrew Luck, QB STAN 169.7 6 Terrance Owens, QB TOL 169.2 7 Keith Price, QB WASH 161.9 8 Matt Barkley, QB USC 161.2 9 Brandon Weeden, QB OKST 159.8 10 Bryn Renner, QB UNC 159.4 … 53 Ryan Aplin, QB ARST 133.6 54 Nathan Scheelhaase, QB ILL 133.4 55 Tommy Rees, QB ND 133.4 56*** Ryan Tannehill, QB TA&M 133.2 57 Tanner Price, QB WAKE 132.8
Completion Percentage: Code:
RK PLAYER TEAM ATT COMP PCT 1 Kellen Moore, QB BSU 439 326 74.3 2 Dan Persa, QB NW 297 218 73.4 3 Russell Wilson, QB WIS 309 225 72.8 4** Robert Griffin III, QB BAY 402 291 72.4 5 Brandon Weeden, QB OKST 564 408 72.3 6 Terrance Owens, QB TOL 230 166 72.2 7** Andrew Luck, QB STAN 404 288 71.3 8 Case Keenum, QB HOU 603 428 71 9 Nick Foles, QB ARIZ 560 387 69.1 10 Matt Barkley, QB USC 446 308 69.1 … 51 Chandler Harnish, QB NIU 384 237 61.7 52 Pete Thomas, QB CSU 261 161 61.7 53*** Ryan Tannehill, QB TA&M 531 327 61.6 54 Zach Collaros, QB CIN 272 166 61 55 Marshall Lobbestael, QB WSU 341 208 61
I don't understand what it is that people see in his output that warrants him being in the conversation of the top half of the first round. If someone else has some better performances they can share, please post them. I'd really like to feel good that there is a third great QB prospect in the draft, but I haven't seen him yet. The guy I like most after Luck and RGIII is either Weeden or Osweiler
1st half-- worst half i've ever seen him play. Also, rainy day. 2nd play -- how you throw the deep ball 1:00 under center nails deep pass, contested against safety 1:40 under center, moves in pocket, completes pass for 1st down bad pick end of 1st half 4:30... run-first QB? 4:50... run-first QB? nice pump to freeze LB 6:03... how you throw the deep ball
This is against Texas. It's probably the worst game I saw him play, and I said so the day it happened. However, it does show two nice passes from under center, as well as showing the deep accuracy difference between him and Tannehill. Bear in mind, this is in the rain, too. I'd have posted this in the RGIII thread if there was one.
Quote: I'm not disagreeing with you, I've never bothered to watch Tannehill and I have no horse in this race. But, my question to you is, how, from simply watching recorded TV footage, can you exactly tell what a QB's progression is? How do you know definitively what his 1, 2, and 3 reads are? How do you know what the play design is?
The main reasons I'm asking is that a) I'm doubtful that any normal fan could be accurate in this, but much more importantly, b) I would *love* to be able to do this myself, so please share how you do it if you have a methodology for it.
Man, I'd love to be able to PM you the great secret to answer your question, but the truth of it is that it's right there in front of you to see.
Lemme start with a ridiculous example then lead you to the answer, hehe.
If I'm facing West and I wanna throw East, if I don't turn around to do it, I'm going to break my back in the process.
Seeing a guy work through his progressions is nothing more than watching his head then his footwork. You cannot throw into the left flat if you're facing the right flat without adjusting your body, and the only way to adjust your body is to start with your feet.
Obviously, watching a guy's head is going to tip you off if he's come to his second read. However, in the case when the secondary receiver is running a route which is rather close in general direction to the first route, if the QB has any chance of not throwing a wounded-duck, he absolutely must move his feet to get his mechanics lined up.
Simply put, you'll see a QB staring at a receiver as he's making his drop, or when he makes his plant before he throws. Let's assume the primary is covered. Really good QB's will then move their feet to adjust their body in order to get into position should his eyes tell him the secondary read is open. QB's who have poor mechanics may move their head first and their bodies second, where they then have to adjust their bodies in order to make an accurate throw.
Even these tapes show more than enough info to tell you if a QB is going to his second read.
Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III are not the only quarterbacks in the draft next month projected to have successful NFL careers.
If team president Mike Holmgren is unwilling to outbid the Redskins in a trade with the Rams that would put Griffin in an orange helmet, the Browns can trade down and get the third-best quarterback in the draft — Ryan Tannehill from Texas A&M.
Tannehill, 6-foot-4, 220 pounds, is bigger and stronger than Colt McCoy, but he has red flags sticking like post-it notes to his scouting report. He broke his foot in January, and he started only 19 career games at quarterback for the Aggies. McCoy had more than twice as many victories in college (45) than Tannehill had starts.
The Colts have the first pick April 26, followed by the Rams, Vikings, Browns, Buccaneers and Redskins.
Most projections have the Browns and Redskins as the only serious players trying to wrest the second pick from the Rams for the right to draft Griffin, the Heisman Trophy winner from Baylor. The Browns have more to offer, starting with the fourth and 22nd picks in the first round, but Redskins owner Dan Snyder usually gets what he wants, and he usually overpays for it.
According to a report in the Sunday edition of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, neither the Browns nor the Redskins are overwhelming the Rams with initial offers. The report says the Browns don’t want to give up the 22nd pick. It also says the Redskins have offered the sixth pick this year and a first-round pick next year, but not their second pick this year.
Bids are likely to climb as the draft draws near, depending on what quarterback-starved teams do in free agency. Also, no trades can be completed until the league season begins March 13.
The Chiefs’ Kyle Orton and the 49ers’ Alex Smith, along with Matt Flynn of the Packers and most likely Peyton Manning of the Colts will be free agents. The Dolphins and Seahawks are also seeking quarterbacks.
The Redskins have had only three winning seasons since Snyder bought the team in 1999 (just one more than the Browns in the same span), in part because Snyder is always looking for a quick fix through free agency. He gets players with star status, but they have not meshed.
Mike Shanahan is Snyder’s sixth full-time coach, and Shanahan could be made to walk the plank if the Redskins don’t reverse their 5-11 season of 2011.
Griffin could lead that turnaround for the Browns or Redskins. He is the hottest commodity in the draft because it is a given the Colts will take Luck, the quarterback from Stanford.
As exciting as it would be to see the Browns get Griffin, there is a point at which Holmgren and General Manager Tom Heckert would have to say no to the Rams and let the Redskins claim Griffin.
If Tannehill is Plan B for the Browns, they might have to take him higher than is he ranked by most draft analysts, but they wouldn’t have to use the fourth pick on him.
The Rams want to draft tackle Matt Kalil from USC or wide receiver Justin Blackmon from Oklahoma State. Both could be gone if they stay at No. 6 with the first-round pick acquired from Washington.
If the Rams wind up with the Redskins’ No. 6 pick and want to move up to 4, the Browns would be able to accommodate the Rams and make them pay a steep price. The Browns and Rams could swap first-round picks, and the Browns would demand the Rams’ second-round pick (33). In that scenario, the Browns would be picking sixth, 22nd, 33rd and 37th. They might instead get the 39th pick instead of 33rd if the Rams end up with the Redskins’ second pick in a Griffin trade.
Tannehill has huge upside
So what would the Browns be getting if they have to settle for Tannehill? NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock says Tannehill is better than Jake Locker, who went eighth to the Titans last year, and Christian Ponder, who went to the Vikings with the 12th pick. Neither distinguished himself as a rookie last year.
Tannehill did not work out at the combine last month because he is recovering from foot surgery he underwent in January.
“I can see all the attributes of a Locker in Tannehill,” Mayock said. “He’s a big, strong kid that can push the ball down the field. He’s athletic. I like everything about him except for the fact that on tape, I think he stares his receivers down and waits for them to come up before he rips it. That’s typical of a young quarterback without a lot of starts.
“I look at him and say kind of like Jake Locker, he’s going to take a little bit of time. It’s going to take a year or so. Nineteen starts is not a lot of starts for a college quarterback.”
Tannehill went to Texas A&M to play quarterback but was stuck third on the depth chart. His coaches experimented with him at wide receiver at practice, and two days later he was in the starting lineup. Midway through his junior season, he went back to quarterback.
The team that drafts Tannehill is going to have to go through some growing pains with him because of his limited experience. Browns fans have had enough of that with their quarterbacks, but if the Browns don’t get Griffin, the next alternative is Tannehill — unless Holmgren signs Matt Flynn in free agency.
“I was frustrated by the fact that I didn’t get to play quarterback,” Tannehill said at the combine. “It’s what I always wanted to be. So I was frustrated by it, but blessed by the opportunity to be able to play another position. Not a lot of people get to contribute in another way to help their team.
“Even though it wasn’t at the quarterback position, I did get experience playing football and seeing the game out there. I learned a lot from it, and fortunately I was able to get back to where I wanted to be under center.”
Tannehill completed 457 of 734 pass attempts for 5,121 yards and 41 touchdowns in his 19 starts. He threw 20 interceptions. He passed for 3,744 yards with 29 touchdown passes and 10 interceptions in 2011, his only full season as a starter.
NFLDraftScout.com offers this scouting report: “Very good accuracy in the short passing game, puts ball on the numbers or in a place where receiver can make a play after the catch, even when throwing off his back foot. Quite accurate making plays on the run, squares his shoulders throwing in either direction ... Makes intermediate throws to the short side of the field, but too often sails throws over the middle or to the sideline from the pocket …
“Possesses an NFL arm. Gets the ball from one hash to the opposite sideline in a hurry. Has the zip to hit tight windows on short and intermediate throws.”
The report goes on to say Tannehill sees the field well, but he has to work on recognizing coverages and picking up blitzes. Mayock sees that weakness as the downside of making only 19 starts in college.
Reason for concern?
Teams also have to be wary of Tannehill’s injured foot. He said the doctor who performed the surgery told him the healing is ahead of schedule.
Tannehill broke his foot on Jan. 12 on a routine rollout while working out in Florida in preparation for the Senior Bowl on Jan. 28.
“Coming to find out, I probably had a stress fracture there that was kind of a ticking time bomb and just waiting for the right moment to pop,” Tannehill said. “So it was very frustrating the fact that it happened, but it was kind of a blessing in disguise at the same time, because I was able to get it fixed.”
Tannehill is confident he will be able to throw, run and do everything the coaches and scouts ask him to do at the Texas A&M pro day on March 29. The Browns’ front office will be there watching. web page
Maybe it's just me, but that's a bit of a strangely structured article.
There's a TON of draft movement speculation there, having the Rams trade back with the 'Skins then turn right around and trade up with the Browns. That's message board level talk right there. Then the headline is that Tannehill is a risky proposition, but Jeff downplays the foot injury by saying it's ahead of schedule, and poo-pooing Tannehill's shortcomings. For the record, of my criticisms of Tannehill, that foot injury isn't something I'm concerned about.
I don't think he was fully committed to that article. It reads to me that Jeff wanted to say Tannehill is a big risk, but as he put pen to paper he couldn't help but let his like of Tannehill come out, hehe.
Quote: Maybe it's just me, but that's a bit of a strangely structured article.
There's a TON of draft movement speculation there, having the Rams trade back with the 'Skins then turn right around and trade up with the Browns. That's message board level talk right there. Then the headline is that Tannehill is a risky proposition, but Jeff downplays the foot injury by saying it's ahead of schedule, and poo-pooing Tannehill's shortcomings. For the record, of my criticisms of Tannehill, that foot injury isn't something I'm concerned about.
I don't think he was fully committed to that article. It reads to me that Jeff wanted to say Tannehill is a big risk, but as he put pen to paper he couldn't help but let his like of Tannehill come out, hehe.
When you think about it, no matter how well constructed an article is today, can you really believe any of them? probably not..
It's gotta be tough to fill a page with anything concrete this time of year.
Well, as a writer, he has a story in place that he's supposed to write about. It should be a strong enough article that it convinces the reader to seriously consider the point. However, all that article did was make me look at the writer, not Tannehill.
The headline gives the impression that Tannehill is a big risk. Yet in the article, he shrugs aside the foot injury, and shrugs aside his perceived negatives.
Now keep in mind I'm not dissin' his article because I don't agree with his opinion on the player. I've given my opinion of Tannehill. These thoughts of mine have absolutely nothing to do with that. I'm speaking only of the premise of the article and how it reads. He didn't convince me that Tannehill is a big risk. All Jeff did was convince me that Jeff doesn't believe his own headline.
Hehe...Very well could be. However, based on many of the articles we've seen around here for years which contain spelling errors and flat-out bonking of facts, are we even sure there IS an editor?
Yes I've noticed that spell check seems to have made some people WORSE spellers.. It's hard to believe they can't have an English student co-op read this stuff before it comes out.. but that would delay it by 5 minutes.
. He's the only "definite upgrade" available IMO. 
like this is the process.
The kid completed over 72% of his passes, and did so throwing all over the field. He averaged over 10 yards/pass attempt. That's almost obscene. He has never thrown more than 8 INT in any season. He has gotten better and better as each year has progressed. 
