Mingo's long, lean frame sticks out to fans and scouts alike, almost as much as his unusual name. His svelte build was one reason his mother (who combined her name, Barbara, with the name Kevious to make his unusual moniker) did not want him or his two brothers playing football. But his athleticism and height eventually got him on the gridiron as a high school junior and he proved too productive wherever he lined up to be taken off the field.
Though "KeKe" only started three of the 14 games he played in 2011 due to the team's depth at the position, the Louisiana native received second-team All-SEC notice from league media after racking up 15 tackles for loss and eight sacks (including two against SEC West rivals Arkansas and Auburn). This breakout season was portended by his flashes of brilliance in his redshirt freshman season (35 tackles, 5.5 tackles for loss, 2.5 sacks) where league coaches named him to their freshman All-SEC team.
Mingo's production slipped a bit during his junior season (38 tackles, 8.5 tackles for loss, 4.5 sacks), but he once again earned second-team All-Conference honors. His usage at LSU didn't totally fit his skill set, and he has some holes in his game, but his overall talent as a pass rusher will likely be too great for teams to ignore.
ANALYSIS
STRENGTHS Tall, long and explosive pass rusher who projects best as a stand-up, weakside edge rusher in the NFL. Incredible first step off the snap, can turn the corner on the outside and shimmy inside against leaning tackles. Not a contact-shy player despite his slight build, often lines up on the strong side and/or inside of tight ends in a tight alignment. Strong player setting the edge against the run. Willing to take on tackles man-up, extends his arms to keep distance and can get off to grab backs trying to get through the hole. Takes tight ends backwards into the background using his length and foot work. Works through blocks to get down the line to chase plays. Overall agility and length make him effective in coverage, can stay with running backs out of the backfield and wrap up receivers in space. Excellent straight-line speed shows when chasing down plays from behind. Uses his length and jumping ability to knock down passes if unable to reach the quarterback.
WEAKNESSES Very lean player, likely too thin in the hips to grow into an every-down defensive end. Needs to shed more consistently to prevent plays from getting outside of him. Long legs get in his way at times when trying to change directions quickly. Often gets too focused on scrapping with his blocker instead of getting his eyes in the backfield to find the ball. Did not progress in terms of pass rush moves during his career. Great player off the snap of the ball, but too often allows the offensive tackle to recover because he lacks a move to disengage.
NFL COMPARISON DeMarcus Ware
BOTTOM LINE Mingo looks almost too lean to handle the physicality of NFL linemen, but has surprising strength to go along with the elite length and straight-line speed to rack up double-digit sack numbers (he had eight in 2011) and track down ball carriers (15 tackles for loss) as a 3-4 rush linebacker at the next level. He is a proverbial boom or bust prospect. Mingo's production dropped as a junior, and he failed to show much overall growth in his game over the course of his career. However, KeKe flashed the talent and projectable skills to be a dominant NFL pass rusher, and a position switch will likely serve him well, as the LSU Tiger was too often asked to play in a tight alignment on the strong side in college; a poor use of his strengths. Mingo's length, athleticism, and pass rush talent figure to make him a top 20 selection in the draft.
one of the dumbest picks i have ever seen. You have a blackhole sized problem at corner and you take mingo?!?!?!?!?!?! IDIOTS!!....just wait till haden gets hurt.........then what?!?!?!?!?!?!
Quote: one of the dumbest picks i have ever seen. You have a blackhole sized problem at corner and you take mingo?!?!?!?!?!?! IDIOTS!!....just wait till haden gets hurt.........then what?!?!?!?!?!?!
we blitz every down on every play because we have 5-7 high quality DL and 4-6 quality LB.
Come on, how bad could the pick be with "Bark" in his name?
I assume they're trying to build the strongest Front-7 they can. They'll find some secondary help in the 3rd round. I wouldn't be surprised to see them get an extra 3rd rounder.
I can't say I'm upset. I'm happy they didn't go Geno.
It's also sad the media had this as well with it being Mingo or Milliner
Two things though ... if that's the case, then we got our choice of the two. The thing about Milliner though is he's had 5 surgeries supposedly. It's not going to help us any if Joe Haden goes down, and Milliner is already in street clothes on the sideline. Originally, I would of preferred Milliner, but I cooled off of that once I learned of all the surgeries.
Look at the bright-side though ... it wasn't Geno.
Quote: one of the dumbest picks i have ever seen. You have a blackhole sized problem at corner and you take mingo?!?!?!?!?!?! IDIOTS!!....just wait till haden gets hurt.........then what?!?!?!?!?!?!
we blitz every down on every play because we have 5-7 high quality DL and 4-6 quality LB.
yeah and we will get burnt like toast....mingo had a whopping 4 sacks last year...WOW.....that sure does warrent the 6th overall pick doesnt it!!!! If haslam does lose this team...one good thing will be banner will be gone soon after that
Not my first choice (Milliner), but a good pick for our front 7. Now what, if anything do we do with Sheard, maybe not, keep a rotation perhaps. Just glad it wasn't Geno, of course we could trade back in to get him, just hope not.
WELCOME MINGO, go put a hurtin' on the QB's we face.
Have to say i would have rather had Milliner, But, Mingo is a very good player at a position we need help ... Now i really believe Sheard is History and headed to Atlanta ... JMHO
Quote: Have to say i would have rather had Milliner, But, Mingo is a very good player at a position we need help ... Now i really believe Sheard is History and headed to Atlanta ... JMHO
why would Atlanta need him??? dont they have two good d ends?
Quote: I get it now I just had an epipahny.... Mingo is going to be traded to the 49errs... if ... if the player we want is there when it is their turn.
we get their 2nd, 4th 5th and a 1st next year and swap firsts
No chance. Why would we take a player we don't want just to wait and see if a player we do want is there late in the first? That would make no sense.
Quote: Have to say i would have rather had Milliner, But, Mingo is a very good player at a position we need help ... Now i really believe Sheard is History and headed to Atlanta ... JMHO
why would Atlanta need him??? dont they have two good d ends?
(Abraham's replacement) The last time I was on the falcons board they were talking about how sheard would be better than any rookie they could draft @ #30 ... Denver also is looking at Sheard ...
Quote: Come on, how bad could the pick be with "Bark" in his name?
I assume they're trying to build the strongest Front-7 they can. They'll find some secondary help in the 3rd round. I wouldn't be surprised to see them get an extra 3rd rounder.
I can't say I'm upset. I'm happy they didn't go Geno.
Go Browns!
the problem is that we are starting to look as stupid as Detroit for picking a WR in the first round 3 years in a row.
Taylor Sheard Rubin Kitchen Winn Hughes Bryant and Mingo that's 8 DL fighting for 3 starting spots and playing time.
we have DQ Groves Fort JMJ Roberton and Kruger at LB
who makes the move back to LB? Mingo? Sheard? Bryant?
IMO we added talent to one of the best DL in the league. The problem is that it doesn't matter how much talent you have in area if you can't get them all in the field at the same time. That is why this pick makes me scratch my head.
Quote: I get it now I just had an epipahny.... Mingo is going to be traded to the 49errs... if ... if the player we want is there when it is their turn.
we get their 2nd, 4th 5th and a 1st next year and swap firsts
No chance. Why would we take a player we don't want just to wait and see if a player we do want is there late in the first? That would make no sense.
yeah I know.. just farting around... I wanted a trade down so bad it was just wunderlust
Quote: Have to say i would have rather had Milliner, But, Mingo is a very good player at a position we need help ... Now i really believe Sheard is History and headed to Atlanta ... JMHO
why would Atlanta need him??? dont they have two good d ends?
(Abraham's replacement) The last time I was on the falcons board they were talking about how sheard would be better than any rookie they could draft @ #30 ... Denver also is looking at Sheard ...
were did you hear the broncos are looking at him??? i would be shocked...noone wants sheard unless maybe for a 3rd round pick....
Quote: Have to say i would have rather had Milliner, But, Mingo is a very good player at a position we need help ... Now i really believe Sheard is History and headed to Atlanta ... JMHO
why would Atlanta need him??? dont they have two good d ends?
(Abraham's replacement) The last time I was on the falcons board they were talking about how sheard would be better than any rookie they could draft @ #30 ... Denver also is looking at Sheard ...
were did you hear the broncos are looking at him??? i would be shocked...noone wants sheard unless maybe for a 3rd round pick....
You might be surprised, and i heard it on espn last week ...
You have to consider, well, you don't have to, but is the team willing to pay a number 7 overall AND a number 6 overall CB's all that money when it comes due. That's a hell of a lot of money for the 2 CB's.
We can get a serviceable CB in a later round who can become a good starter.
Going into the draft I felt the Browns first pick should address the defensive front seven. With Jordan and Ansah off the board, Mingo is a very good pick This was the right decision under the circumstances. Mingo's skills fit what the Browns want to do on defense.
Like others have said, maybe someone is on the trade block.
If you're a BPA guy, this pick might make you smile. If you're a need guy, you might be upset.
We haven't seen the rest of the draft yet.
I was watching some show recently and they were explaining that the recent Super Bowl winners were all stacked Front-7 squads with average DBs. Think about it, the Ravens are stronger up front. So are the Steelers. Remember the Giants two SB wins, can you name a DB off their roster before rattling off the overpowering Front-7?
I'm delighted with the pick, as long as hes the real deal of course.
What if Sheard can't play OLB??? As you say "we have a big hole at OLB then" I'm a SEC guy....Mingo is a beast!!!! I love Millner too...but we got a STUD!!!!
Quote: What if Sheard can't play OLB??? As you say "we have a big hole at OLB then" I'm a SEC guy....Mingo is a beast!!!! I love Millner too...but we got a STUD!!!!
Quote: Have to say i would have rather had Milliner, But, Mingo is a very good player at a position we need help ... Now i really believe Sheard is History and headed to Atlanta ... JMHO
why would Atlanta need him??? dont they have two good d ends?
(Abraham's replacement) The last time I was on the falcons board they were talking about how sheard would be better than any rookie they could draft @ #30 ... Denver also is looking at Sheard ...
were did you hear the broncos are looking at him??? i would be shocked...noone wants sheard unless maybe for a 3rd round pick....
You might be surprised, and i heard it on espn last week ...
sheard will never be Abraham.......sheard has to line up against the right tackle...he is not good enough to go up against the left tackles
I absolutely agree Guard. I can't believe the friggin whining already. Pittsburgh would have snatch this guy up in a flash. We are going to run a defense like Pitsburgh's and believe me you need guys like Mingo. In this type scheme, a guy with Mingo's speed and fierceness, can become a James Harrison type without the cheapshots that is.
I love the pick. I liked Milliner, but I too had a change of mind after hearing about his surgery. Mingo is good against the run, even though someone above suggested he wasn't. We needed OLB's and always will in this defensive scheme, this is a good start.
I got a feeling we might trade to get back into the second, but I'm not sure who. I want Sheard to stay, I believe he is more of a situational guy than Mingo will be.
Pittsburgh has done very well with a strong front seven and so so DB's. We still have Haden, and there still are some left in the draft and FAs.
More like "A Mingo bounces off of Big Ben for teh 5th time today"
Since I don't want to be called a hater, I'll stay consistent and here's what I said over the past few months on this board about Mingo, enjoy ...also some positives in there, just not worth the risk at 6 overall imho
Quote: Mingo and Jones are 1 trick speed ponies
Quote: I want 3down football players and Moore is one. If you think football is a sport where track guys run around blocks on the NFL level, then think twice...or just go ahead and draft 3rd down specialists like J.Jones or Mingo....I mean, these dudes were toast at the College level as soon as someone got a hand on them. It always looks cooler or flashier when one of those guys beats you every 30th play with speed while that OL was caught napping or someone missed an assignment...in the NFL you need to be more than that. Jones is especially concerning to me since I see some lack of hustle in his play, Mingo tries but just is too light to defeat blocks.
Quote: Jones and Mingo simply aren't 3 down players. If you want to draft Bruce Irvin or M.Ingram at 6, go ahead and do it but don't come whining when the opposing RBs AVG 100+ yds/game. Since the league still runs at least 40% of the time, I'd very willingly trade 2-4 less sacks a year vs constantly good play vs the run instead of alibi run defending...and since guys like Ansah and Moore have a much higher motor than the speedsters I'd even expect them to make up in the sack column to make it a wash there.
If Lombardi takes Jones or Mingo, then I know for sure he's still the same hype clown he was the last 25 years. There's one chance though: Ansah is also a hype player with actual tape to back it up. Not that I think that Lombardi is able to see it, but if Ansah puts on a show in Indy, which I expect, then Lombardi will fall in love too, lol...and Horton will be in his ear for the next 2 months leading up to the draft
Quote: Funny, watching Bark Mingo for even only 1min you quickly get the difference compared to Jones.
While I'm not a Mingo fan, his body language, hand usage, motor and overall hustle are FAR better than Jones. You wanna know why Jones has better stats? Jones played standing up every snap and was allowed to run into the backfield almost every play. Mingo was lined up as a classic 4-3 DE where he is severly undersized. Standing up I see a much better football player
Watch that play at 1:12min for what I mean, he actually uses his head:
Quote: As for Mingo, he's a one trick speed pony like J.Jones, but has a better motor. He's extremely raw and needs a lot of teaching and developing but I can see him become a good one, but it will take time, so I'm not sure I'd invest a top 15-20 or even top 50 pick on a conversion project like him. Classic boom/bust, high ceiling, bust floor, although his floor is higher than Jones' because of his all out hustle
Quote: vs Run:
1. Ansah 2. Moore 3. -5. Jordan, Mingo, Jones in no order, I think all 3 will struggle in the NFL
pass rush:
1. Mingo (speed, athleticism AND motor) 2. Ansah (power and motor, and the speed is there too, just needs reps and experience) 3.-5. in no order: Jones (speed and speed), Jordan (athleticism), Moore (motor and enough athleticism, see his SS and 3cone at ProDay)...all 3 are not balanced enough to be dominant imho
In coverage all 5 are projections and Jordan probably looks best because he simply was the only one with any experience there.I have my opinions based on some little things I saw with all of those guys, but it can go either way with all of them....that's coaching and how they respond to it....I like Jordan's, Ansah's and Mingo's chances there because of the mix of coachability and athleticism
With that said, it's easy to see why I'm high on Ansah, Moore and intrigued by Mingo.
Quote: Browns should have taken Milner....stupid,stupid,stupid ....Mingo is good ,but not like what Milner gives a team.
Think that remains to be seen.
While I would have preferred a corner, Mingo tested off the charts (along with having a solid career in the best CFB conference). He was the combines top DE performer in the 40, vert, broad jump and 3 cone.
He's certainly not a scrub and to be honest, my distaste for all the is Buster Skrine is probably making me dislike the pick.
Considering they spent a lot of free agent money in the front 7, including two OLBs, I would have preferred Jonathan Cooper. While I know CB is a glaring need, that would be a lot of money tied up in your corners. They've got to resign Ward, etc. Too high for TE.
JC was the logical pick, and would have been a beautiful addition between Thomas & Mack (arena?).
I think we see Sheard, or maybe one or two others get moved. Will be interesting... Cause I'm not sure the Browns are done for the night. I certainly hope not... At this point, I'll give the Browns credit for a hell of a smokescreen... Everyone thought Milliner, or Smith, etc.
I really don't like the pick...Mingo underachieved is very thin for his frame...weak on tape...and doesn't wow on tape either...would have loved Vaccaro Milliner or Rhodes via trade down
He's a speedy pass rusher, which is what we need with this defensive scheme.
I would add that Ansah, who so many wanted, had 4.5 sacks and something like 8 tackles for loss last year as well. Ansah is a bigger player, without that elite first step. Mingo does have some elite level capabilities.
I can't believe that no DL have gone so far. I do think that the Raiders played this well, and will have traded down for Sharif Floyd ... who they probably would have taken at 3.
Quote: Well we have the best 4-3 defensive line in football now! Wait that's the wrong defense right?
Cone On you guys you know darn well Mingo was drated to play OLB not DE!!!
So I can expect him to not only rush the passer but have the ability to tackle a running back in space, to cover a tight end or RB in pass coverage. A LINEBACKER can play off the ball. If he can't then we have two "linebackers" that have zero cover skills. Kruger is a pass rusher. Now with Bark we probably have another OLB that can ONLY be a pass rusher. They will both play up on the line. Making our defense a 5-2 D no matter what you call it....
Quote: If you don't like it, you've never seen him play.
It's that simple.
I don't like it AT ALL BUT YOU ARE CORRECT i HAVE NEVER SEEN HIM PLAY WHICH IS THE MAIN REASON i DON'T COMMENT MUCH ON THE DRAFT SINCE i NEVER HAVE A CHANCE TO WATCH THE COLLAGE PLAYERS.
this is a terrible, terrible pick that has lombardi's finger prints all over it.
mingo is a physical freak who looks good on paper.
then you get him on the field and he DISAPPEARS!!!!!
he's tall and skinny and will get EATEN ALIVE in our division. big ben will pick this kid up by the throat and PILE DRIVE HIM.
AND we already have 2 OLB's!!!!!!!!!!!!!! great, now we have to trade sheard. and why, because he can't cover??? you think MINGO is going to be able to cover???????
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
3-13 is REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We want lots of pass rushers .... to send rusher after rusher after rusher after the QB.
I will make you a bet right now that Roethlisberger will not pick him up by the throat and body slam him. I will bet anything that this does not happen.
the negative Browns fan in me sees Jarvis Jones falling to the Steelers where Mingo and Jones where be compared for the rest of their careers and Jones has proven production in college and translates it to the pros....Mingo...well, let's hope he turns into Ware or Aldon Smith
I wanted Milliner and he was available, so I am disappointed. However, I think Mingo was a good choice. I would rather have Milliner, but Mingo is a good player. He is very explosive. He gets into the backfield and blows up both running and passing plays.
I am a little confused as to how they are going to play Kruger, Mingo, and Sheard-----unless they are going to trade Sheard??? Don't know.
Bottom line: Solid pick. Not great, but not nearly as stupid as trading up and giving up picks for TRich or drafting Weeden in round one. Much better than drafting Edwards. A far cry from drafting Joe Thomas. Way better than the disaster that was Brady Quinn. Maybe more dynamic than drafting Mack. Probably most similar to the Haden pick. Two good players that can make plays, but are quite elite.
Quote: Come on, how bad could the pick be with "Bark" in his name?
I assume they're trying to build the strongest Front-7 they can. They'll find some secondary help in the 3rd round. I wouldn't be surprised to see them get an extra 3rd rounder.
I can't say I'm upset. I'm happy they didn't go Geno.
Go Browns!
the problem is that we are starting to look as stupid as Detroit for picking a WR in the first round 3 years in a row.
Taylor Sheard Rubin Kitchen Winn Hughes Bryant and Mingo that's 8 DL fighting for 3 starting spots and playing time.
we have DQ Groves Fort JMJ Roberton and Kruger at LB
who makes the move back to LB? Mingo? Sheard? Bryant?
IMO we added talent to one of the best DL in the league. The problem is that it doesn't matter how much talent you have in area if you can't get them all in the field at the same time. That is why this pick makes me scratch my head.
No one can look as stupid as Detroit. Anyway, Mingo is going to play OLB. We should have one heck of a pass rush.
We want lots of pass rushers .... to send rusher after rusher after rusher after the QB.
I will make you a bet right now that Roethlisberger will not pick him up by the throat and body slam him. I will bet anything that this does not happen.
I wouldn't trade sheard since mingo is not going to keep helathy with that lean frame of his.
I dont even want to think about what will be said if Big Ben stiff arms mingo into oblivian. Can hear it now, "Ben takes the Bark out of Cleveland", "The Dawgpound just lost its Bark" and it goes on an on ....
Quote: the negative Browns fan in me sees Jarvis Jones falling to the Steelers where Mingo and Jones where be compared for the rest of their careers and Jones has proven production in college and translates it to the pros....Mingo...well, let's hope he turns into Ware or Aldon Smith
Jones played standing up on every play and Mingo with his hands down and an OT in his face....big difference
We better hit the next picks as this is a classic boom/bust selection
Trying to stay positive I'll say that pass rush IS a premium and he DOES have the necessary motor to succeed...but man, he's sooo raw
So, how many of you conducted the following, regarding Mingo?
Background check, game film study, review medical records, personal interview, reviewed college academic records, reviewed Wonderlic scores, observed player personally at combine, spent time discussing player's life, family and history, talked with his former college coaches, had multiple individuals with long NFL careers provide insight/opinions about player, etc.
If anyone hasn't conducted at least 4 of these activities, your opinions pretty much mean squat.
Here is the question that offenses now have to answer. Who do you double team on 3rd down Paul Kruger or Barkavious Mingo?
When Kruger was signed everyone said he was a product of playing opposite of Terrelle Suggs. Now he will play opposite a yound speed rusher in Mingo. Makes alot of since to me.
I am starting to think the Browns will move both Sheard and Rubin before this draft is over.
I'm very ok with this pick. Calm down people. I liked Milliner, but 5 surgeries, and then playing through all of them? Had to take a toll, and he's smallish. I think Bark will excel standing up as OLB. He was miscast as a DE in the SEC. Then lets be honest........we have two real LBs right now. DQ and Kruger. We are going to run a 3-4. We need at least 3 OLB on the roster, maybe 4.........that can all ball.
There are other picks I would have liked of course, ( I mean we kind of are not......good). We have a lot of wholes. I still think we'll go get the CBs and safetys we need. We'll see. Next couple days will be interesting.
I think this pick is to make sure Kruger can be effective. He needs/sure-can't-hurt to have a dynamic OLB on the other side. Who knows is Sheard would be able to do that really? He kind of reminds me of Kruger is he pans out in terms of his ceiling. So not sure if he's be as effective as a true speed rusher on the other side. imo
Quote: I think this pick is to make sure Kruger can be effective. He needs/sure-can't-hurt to have a dynamic OLB on the other side. Who knows is Sheard would be able to do that really? He kind of reminds me of Kruger is he pans out in terms of his ceiling. So not sure if he's be as effective as a true speed rusher on the other side. imo
wait, we had to get an insurance policy for our $40 million dollar free agent pick up? at #6???????????????????
Quote: I'm very ok with this pick. Calm down people. I liked Milliner, but 5 surgeries, and then playing through all of them? Had to take a toll, and he's smallish. I think Bark will excel standing up as OLB. He was miscast as a DE in the SEC. Then lets be honest........we have two real LBs right now. DQ and Kruger. We are going to run a 3-4. We need at least 3 OLB on the roster, maybe 4.........that can all ball.
There are other picks I would have liked of course, ( I mean we kind of are not......good). We have a lot of wholes. I still think we'll go get the CBs and safetys we need. We'll see. Next couple days will be interesting.
this is good logic, thank you for posting. i don't like being told to like a pick just because the big, bad browns say its a good pick.
we did need lbs and it probably means that sheard (and probably rubin) will be gone before the draft is over this weekend. hate to lose to productive players just because they don't "fit". this team is REALLY going to struggle this year.
I don't know if I would call it insurance but rather complimentary.
You wanted bookend corners with Haden and Milliner and the FO wanted bookend pass rushers in Kruger and Mingo.
Crennal and Manigini played the 3-4 and never brought in 3-4 OLB's to rush the passer atleast this regime brought in pass rushers to make the 3-4 work.
Quote: So, how many of you conducted the following, regarding Mingo?
Background check, game film study, review medical records, personal interview, reviewed college academic records, reviewed Wonderlic scores, observed player personally at combine, spent time discussing player's life, family and history, talked with his former college coaches, had multiple individuals with long NFL careers provide insight/opinions about player, etc.
If anyone hasn't conducted at least 4 of these activities, your opinions pretty much mean squat.
AND YOU WILL FIND YOURSELF LIVING IN A VAN ...DOWN BY THE RIVER! But really you signed up to this board to post that bit of insight?
Quote: one of the dumbest picks i have ever seen. You have a blackhole sized problem at corner and you take mingo?!?!?!?!?!?! IDIOTS!!....just wait till haden gets hurt.........then what?!?!?!?!?!?!
starting already?
why don't we give the guy a chance. I wanted Geno Smith, but Im OK with this pick. This guy is a good player, and he is a good pass rusher....a great pass rush can mask the deficiencies of your secondary...ask the Steelers of the last decade + outside of Troy P their secondary is very average.
We have gotten picked apart the last few years because the lack of a pass rush...Mingo + Kruger + Desmond Bryant. Its a good start....just give the guy a chance....
Browns select: Barkevious Mingo, OLB, LSU Mingo has raw ability, but I just didn't see enough from him last season. I wanted more. And do the Browns have a need there?
(He loved Ansah though, favorite player in the draft ..... and Ansah doesn't have a long resume either)
The Cleveland Browns’ move from a 4-3 to a 3-4 defense left them badly in need of another dynamic pass rusher or two. Consider them a step closer to where they want to be after their Round 1 selection of LSU DE/OLB Barkevious Mingo.
Like Ziggy Ansah, who went just above him, Mingo is a bit of a work in progress — his production last season was disappointing (4.5 sacks), but he’s now headed into a defense that should fit his abilities better than the LSU one did. Combine him with new addition Paul Kruger and incumbent Jabaal Sheard at OLB in the Browns’ defense, and suddenly, that’s a pretty ferocious pass rush.
Mingo may not be able to grow much physically, already at 6-foot-4 and a bulked-up 240-plus pounds. But his speed off the edge is his selling point here.
Grade: B-plus. A really aggressive decision by Cleveland to stay put and take Mingo higher than a lot of people had him pegged. The Browns may not be able to play him three downs from the get-go, but his sack totals ought to easily surpass what he did at LSU in 2012.
(They gave the Lions a B, With kind of a boom/bust comment)
Quote: So, how many of you conducted the following, regarding Mingo?
Background check, game film study, review medical records, personal interview, reviewed college academic records, reviewed Wonderlic scores, observed player personally at combine, spent time discussing player's life, family and history, talked with his former college coaches, had multiple individuals with long NFL careers provide insight/opinions about player, etc.
If anyone hasn't conducted at least 4 of these activities, your opinions pretty much mean squat.
No point in having a message board then. Shut 'er down, Purp! BTW, nice first post.
At this point all everyone can do is trust that the front office did their due diligence and research on the guy. With Horton running the defense and us having an attacking philosophy let's hope that he turns into our Harrison or something like it. Actually my first thought after seeing who we selected was wondering if anything was going to happen to Sheard. Just like many others on the board, I would not be surprised to see them trade Sheard or someone else away to move up into the 2nd round and get a CB. Now what would make my head explode is if they traded someone, moved up into the second round, and selected a TE.
Also, it wouldn't be that bad if we selected a FB sometime in the later rounds of this draft.
On another note. WHAT!? Bengals select Eifert when they have Gresham!?????
crazy as it sounds, mingo was the safest of the pass rushers. dion never had the production, ansah just started playing football, jarvis jones and his spinal stenosis.
milliner would have been my pick, but i'm far from upset at mingo.
(and crazy that the trade downs were getting little in return....bills / rams deal specifically)
Quote: I am a little confused as to how they are going to play Kruger, Mingo, and Sheard-----unless they are going to trade Sheard??? Don't know.
I'm thinking initially Mingo will backup to Sheard.
Mingo's been playing with his hand on the ground so standing up might be good for him if he can transition to it. Both he and Sheard will be transitioning so it's going to be a bit odd on that side for a while.
I'm hoping Horton finds mismatches for each guy's strengths and we'll see one play more than the other depending on those mismatches vs. different teams.
Does that make sense?
I hate to think of it as two players=one player. But considering injury possibilities once a pass rusher goes down we're left with one. At least now we should be able to sustain with one injury. That's depth at that position we haven't had since our return. For that matter we haven't had 2 pass rushers at the same time. Now maybe we have three.
I could see all three on the field in certain situations. I could see Kruger move inside on occasion depending on what Horton thinks the offense is doing.
Knowing now how the FO was thinking I'm convinced they wanted Dion Jordan. I'm sure they had their eyes set on him, Ziggy or Mingo. They got one of them so that's a good job IMO.
What an athletic freak of nature. Mingo is a pass-rushing terror who will have an immediate impact in Cleveland. Some people thought the Browns would go quarterback here, but no dice.
I like the idea of watching Mingo and Jones square off for bragging rights twice a year. I refuse to adopt a defeatist mentality, expect the worst at every bend, and get suckered into believing all the reactionary garbage. In the words of my dear mother, "May those who love us, love us. And those who don't love us; may the Lord turn their hearts. And if the Lord won't turn their hearts, may He turn their ankles, so we'll know them by their limping."
Look, I think the guy is a good player who didn't get the opportunities in LSU's conservative defense that he will here, but I would not have drafted an OLBer, even though most people on here and nationally, wanted us to.
I am not saying it was a bad pick. I am not hating on the FO like so many people are doing. I just question the need.
My only explanation is that perhaps they took the guy who they had ranked as the best player left in the draft. I really have no problem w/drafting the BPA.
Again, I am not either thrilled or disappointed w/this pick. It's not as bad as last year or as it was it most years, but it's not really what I was hoping for.
I might have gone Milliner ..... but he is a bit of a reach there, and most teams with one exceptional CB on one side have a solid guy on the other. (although I do believe that the jury is still out some on Haden)
We also signed Groves, so we already were 3 deep at pass rushing OLB...as Vers said, I just didn't see the need and obviously disagree on the evaluation of Mingo. He's just not a day 1 ready 3 down player and at 6 overall I want more than a project/backup who will play only half the snaps at a position where we already had a big FA signing and a pretty good high 2nd rounder invested in...it just doesn't make much sense?
Quote: I am curious. Who would you have picked there?
In the chat somebody quoted Banner saying they had an offer on the table (probably Rams)...I know for me that Eifert/Rhodes + 2nd(and more) >>>> Mingo....not even close imho
I have said all along that my first option was to pick Milliner. I think he is special.
My second option was to trade down and get a 2nd rounder in return.
But again, I am not complaint too much. Mingo is a good player. I think he'll be dynamic in Horton's defense. It's not exactly what I wanted, but it's better than our usual picks.
Quote: I have said all along that my first option was to pick Milliner. I think he is special.
My second option was to trade down and get a 2nd rounder in return.
But again, I am not complaint too much. Mingo is a good player. I think he'll be dynamic in Horton's defense. It's not exactly what I wanted, but it's better than our usual picks.
You are correct in your thinking, but Mingo went too high. No surprise since Lombardi is calling the shots.
Was this a good pick? I don't know for fact, but Mingo makes sense. The Browns have been missing pass rushers for a long time. This defense will now have pass rushers on both sides of the QB. The DL is already very solid with solid depth and now this defense has some OLBs that can get after the QB and create problems.
When you think about the new bookend pass rushers and combine them with the DL the front 7 are looking pretty good.
Don't think for a second that this front office is going into the season with the current DBs, they will add another CB and safety.
I think Mingo is going to put up double digit sacks year one.
Many expected the Browns to pursue Alabama cornerback Dee Milliner, and that position remains a glaring need, but you can't have enough pass rushers in this league. It's arguably the most important position on the field outside of the quarterback, and Cleveland has grown stronger adding Mingo to the fold.
Did anyone see Milliner's ball skills on display at he Combine. Horrific. I would rather have had Hayden all day long over Milliner. Pass rushers are much more important in today's NFL. Mingo will be a beast once Horton unleashes him.
Not sure how many of you watched the presser with Chud and Banner, but Banner stated exactly what he said in his interview for the Browns Report "We will probably go into this season with a few holes, fans won't like it, but we are not taking a player just to fill a hole, we are taking a player "we think" will be superior for years to come". He followed up a question stating that Horton was involved with the decision of "BARK" (sounds better than KeKe ).
I don't get all wrapped up in the draft like I used to, so I am pretty happy that the FO went with the BPA (a PASS RUSHER finally) they have slotted for the spot they selected at. Looking forward to tomorrow, Saturday, and next week when they go after all the UDFA's.
We will get another solid CB in this draft or in free agency before TC, we don't need a first rounder at every position. Relax everyone, it cannot get any worse than what we have already seen, unless we go 0-16, but the bright side there is we pick first overall.
I do not think it was a reach. Many mocks had Mingo in the top 10.
I would have takem Milliner because of the need for CB. Some scouts say he is a zone corner but if you don't have man skills Saban would not have started him for 3 years.
As far as Mingo goes. If he is an elite pass rusher then it does not matter if he is not a 3 down player. Look at Seattle with Irvin. Speed on defense is very important and one would played at an elite level like the SEC West for LSU is a solid pick. BPA kinda pick. The FO said they want to be an attack style defense and he fits that mold.Props for staying true to the philosophy they want to employ.
This front 7 really has the potential to be our strongest front 7 in decades.
I look at our team back to 1993 ...... and I cannot think of any Browns team that has had a stronger and deeper front 7. (potentially, anyway)
The 1993 team had some really nice pass rushers ..... MDP, Pleasant, and Burnett ...... and a veteran LB corps ..... but I love the speed on this defense. However, aside from that 1993 team, I really don't think that I see another defense since that I like as much as this one.
Quote: I think Mingo is going to put up double digit sacks year one.
Love the optimism, but Mingo never even sniffed a double digit sack season in College, so that is a BIG leap of faith...he has 14 career sacks in 3 years of College
It was a luxury pick for team that still misses a handful of 3 down players elsewhere.
Sure looks like the plan is "to win next year" yet again
Quote: We also signed Groves, so we already were 3 deep at pass rushing OLB...as Vers said, I just didn't see the need and obviously disagree on the evaluation of Mingo. He's just not a day 1 ready 3 down player and at 6 overall I want more than a project/backup who will play only half the snaps at a position where we already had a big FA signing and a pretty good high 2nd rounder invested in...it just doesn't make much sense?
Yea I thought we took care of our LB needs in FA. I really thought they would take Milliner. Must have been scared off by his 5 surgeries.
Quote: One things for sure, there will be fresh bodies on D in the 4th quarter!
....yeah, to rush the passer...but we will be trailing because we get run over as all our LBs suck vs the run. We put the cart before he horse. Outsmarting at its finest and exactly what I expected
I'm fine with the pick as well. And I agree it was BPA.
But from another viewpoint we've lacked a strong Front 7 for years and seeing a FO focus on that is encouraging to me. No aging FA LB'ers, No 5th round pass rusher. I'm good with it.
Banner even said in one of the interviews last week that after the draft some fans might be uncertain that some holes do not get filled. But he justified that by saying they are trying to build for the long term rather than the short.
Of course, many before him said the same thing. But focusing on the Front 7 as they have it says a lot about how they're approaching it. If this pick and the FA's, (Kruger, Bryant, Groves), work out then at their age our Front 7 will be formidable in a year or two and for years to come.
I still don't think any team is willing to draft and pay two top 10 CB's. So I never really thought Miliner was a real option. I know it's Haslem's money but Banner's holding the wallet and I just can't see him investing that much money on the two guys at that position.
I have confidence they'll get someone in the 3rd. (Damn Rhodes just went to the Vikes. Wouldn't have gotten him in the 3rd anyway and obviously).
I know Skrine is everyone's favorite whipping boy, but between he, the others on the roster and a draft pick I'm sure we're going to make there will be plenty of competition for the #2 CB. One of them just might surprise. If not they play it out with what they have.
At any rate this team looks much better so far. Not because of the Mingo pick but because of all things considered.
There's still the rest of a deep draft, Free Agency and June cuts to add to the team.
Or did the world just come to an end and I missed it?
You missed 1 he had 15 career sacks playing Defensive End. He will paly OLB here in Cleveland. At defensive End he did not get as much of a chance to use his 4.5 speed. At OLB it will be on display much more often. Mingo also had over 30 TFL's in his college career. He has also shown the ability to run down RB's down the line of scrimmage. Brings much needed speed to the linebacker position the Browns have lacked for years.
Quote: I think Mingo is going to put up double digit sacks year one.
Love the optimism, but Mingo never even sniffed a double digit sack season in College, so that is a BIG leap of faith...he has 14 career sacks in 3 years of College
It was a luxury pick for team that still misses a handful of 3 down players elsewhere.
Sure looks like the plan is "to win next year" yet again
Don't worry about not enough sacks in college. Miles didn't use him like that. Mingo dropped back in pass coverage alot. He didn't pin his ears back and rush the passer much. When he did, he was a monster.
He does need to bulk up a little and develop a pass rushing move.
I think Mingo is going to put up double digit sacks year one.
Quote:
Love the optimism, but Mingo never even sniffed a double digit sack season in College, so that is a BIG leap of faith...he has 14 career sacks in 3 years of College
Everything I watched on him, which was not a lot, and everything I read about him, which was not a lot, I saw and heard said that he played with his hand on the ground and was typically used in containment and not primarily as a pass rusher standing up.
He played on both sides of the defense and like Ansah he didn't get the opportunities to rack up big stats.
I'm not about to join the double-digit-sack-totals-in-his-rookie-year-club, but I think he has more to show that was not being used in College.
Just my guess.
We went from having only one pass rusher (Sheard) with no one on the other side to loosten him up to having three pass rushers. One or the other of them ought to shine game to game depending on the opponent.
I like having a loaded Front 7. I'd think that other than an ILB we may be set there for the next few years.
I agree on the conversion though, he DOES project very good to 34 OLB considering his size/speed, but there are a lot of questions marks involved. He's extremely raw, not many moves, he has to learn to drop into coverage AND learn how to finsih. Sound like a lot? Well, it is...
That said, I think he was no1 in terms of pure pass rush ability and I guess that's what sold them on Mingo...they better hit here as they just took a BIG project at 6 overall, they better be right or they will never hear the end of it. I would have liked more of a 3 down player with that high a pick and a higher floor...the consensus opted to swing for the fences on a 3-0 pitch...they better hit it good or they'll look stupid
Yes, and I've explained at lengths why, it's not my problem if you didn't read it. Can Mingo play 34 DE too? Be effective as a DE in a 43? Ansah is als a BEAST vs the run at 270 which Mingo isn't at 240...Mingo pretty much is restricted to 34 WOLB, Ansah is the hybrd defender...but I guess that doesn't matter and they're the same player fo you?
Yet Ansah lacks that explosion off the snap that Mingo has.
It's a trade off ...... a better run defender or a better pass rusher ..... which is the bigger value? Obviously the Browns see the pass rusher as the bigger need.
Quote: Yet Ansah lacks that explosion off the snap that Mingo has.
It's a trade off ...... a better run defender or a better pass rusher ..... which is the bigger value? Obviously the Browns see the pass rusher as the bigger need.
Or maybe they like Ansah more, but had a hard time picking him since he was already picked?
Like the pick, he is a bit undersized but he has better counter moves than Jordan and Ansah. Seems like a perfect fit for this system, we might have ourselves a pass rush. He was the best pass rusher in the best conference in college football. Our front 7 on defense should be formidable now for the first time in a long time.
I like him more than I did before (might be rose color glasses). Some impressions:
Positives: 1.) Great first step when he is asked to pin his ears back 2.) Is often asked to seal the edge (especially against Manziel in game 1) this affects his numbers 3.) Knocks down a lot of balls at the line (I believe 6 in 4 games) - has long arms and times his jumps well. 4.) Has all of the OLB skills, comes out to cover TEs occasionally, or RBs out of the back field. 5.) Seals the edge against he run very efficiently, is asked to do this a lot, and RBs never really get outside.
Negatives: 1.) Is completely unable to come off blocks and make tackles against the run game. Doesn't wrap up well. Overall, dude needs to go to a weight room and do about a million curls. He kind of pigeon arms when wrapping up. 2.) Doesn't have a dominant pass rush move to go to, utilizes the spin - but doesn't use his hands well in order to move around contact.
There are a lot of positives here, he really just needs to add strength. Moving to OLB in a 3-4 will help minimize the impact of his biggest negative (the idea is that the DL takes up some blocks and lets your OLBs move freely).
Quote: I think Mingo is going to put up double digit sacks year one.
Love the optimism, but Mingo never even sniffed a double digit sack season in College, so that is a BIG leap of faith...he has 14 career sacks in 3 years of College
It was a luxury pick for team that still misses a handful of 3 down players elsewhere.
Sure looks like the plan is "to win next year" yet again
Don't worry about not enough sacks in college. Miles didn't use him like that. Mingo dropped back in pass coverage alot. He didn't pin his ears back and rush the passer much. When he did, he was a monster.
He does need to bulk up a little and develop a pass rushing move.
So he CAN drop back in coverage? He will be able to actually play the linebacker position off the ball? I like hearing that. Hope that's accurate.
Bulking up means slowing down. Harrison played at 240. Hell Lawrence Taylor played at 240. I'll be happy if he stays a little smaller and keeps his speed.
We are supposed to be changing to a mirror defense of the Steelers. We already have that big strong sider in Kruger. We need a Harrison type that can get pressure, but can also play in coverage, tackle a RB in space(blow UP a running back), maybe get a few interceptions.... you know play linebacker. If this kid can do all that and get double digit sacks then this was a good pick. The Steelers took Jarvis Jones. So forever more KeKe and Jarvis will be linked. Which one turned out better?
Just watched that video as well, and was coming here to post it.
Came away with basically the same things you did. One thing to remember, in two of those games (A&M and Bama) he lined up across from two of the best RT in college football in Fluker and Jake Matthews.
I don't hate this pick. Were there bigger needs? You bet. But, I said in another thread that the one thing that would drive me up the wall was a panic pick. To me, it doesn't look like they did that, they took the BPA on their board. We have plenty of time to debate the accuracy of their board, but at least they stuck to the work they did coming into the draft. If they thought Bark was the best guy available, then I'm glad took who they thought was the best guy. Need be damned. Just me tho.
Just watched the same video, wish I would have seen it before I made my final decision on Mingo.
He does have surprising strength that he gets because his burst is so fast and he just leverages the tackle out of his way. Hell, half the time, Fluker was struggling to keep himself from being pushed into AJ.
He sorely needs some real coaching. He has all the physical talent, it's clear. He needs to get thicker, not too much more, and he needs to play with more attention to detail.
But still, I don't want to put cart before the horse. He'll be a good situational pass rusher at the beginning. I won't say double digits, but he'll get his fair share. He has the potential, though, to be something incredibly disruptive and a front 7 animal. His motor never quits and he doesn't give up on plays, and I really like it.
Still, it's a little too boom or bust for me. Given the options, I'd say it's about a B pick. I would have been much more upset if we took Mingo with Jordan on the board.
He seems to be a 3-4 linebacker and we all know we will soon be switching back to the 4-3 in another year. I guess we aren't looking to the future with this pick.
The nice thing is that he looks like he can add 10-15# of muscle without slowing down. He has a frame that makes 240# looks almost skinny. I think that he can get to 250# - 255# and still have ferocious speed.
Been telling you guys since Jan, its bad freaking business to draft a #2 CB at the 6th spot in the draft. Esp one lacking fluid hips and elite ball skills.
I saw this quote from an article by Jamison Hensley with ESPN.....
"Even though Mingo didn't produce strong sack numbers, he still made quarterbacks move out the pocket and hurry throws. He recorded 28 total pressures (hurries and knockdowns), tied for the second-most in the SEC. Only Jarvis Jones (31), who was later drafted by the Steelers, had more."
He may have had only 4.5 sacks last year but he affects the QB alot. I love the attitude of BPA to fit the way the FO wants to see the team perform. This is a guy who can attack.
I know you liked Jarvis Jones..so it's not the position. Therefore it has to be the players.Is Mingo really that different from Jones? I mean I think Jones had a ton more stats because of the way that UGA used him. (didn't ask him to contain, didn't use him as a 4-3 end...etc) I like Mingo. His weakest area is probably technique but that's most college players. Let's say if Horton can coach him up.
Look at the brightside: 1) Best name in the draft possibly the NFL 2) Dingo/Mingo jokes 3) Best first step with effort 4) the Browns have 3 Pass rushers for 2 positions
*ahem* Mingo/Mongo jokes! Plus the whole "guy named Bark on a Dawg defense angle" ... he's a 10/10 if we were grading purely on his name. Too bad the rest of him is pretty raw, but I'm willing to give him a chance, and hope he maxes out his potential, as he would be a heck of a player.
*ahem* Mingo/Mongo jokes! Plus the whole "guy named Bark on a Dawg defense angle" ... he's a 10/10 if we were grading purely on his name. Too bad the rest of him is pretty raw, but I'm willing to give him a chance, and hope he maxes out his potential, as he would be a heck of a player.
Putting the Bark back in the Dawg Pound....That's good I should copyright that.
Quote: The Cleveland Browns could've gone with the flashy pick by drafting West Virginia quarterback Geno Smith. They could've played it safe by taking Alabama's Dee Milliner, the top-rated cornerback in the draft.
Instead, Cleveland made the right move in going with LSU pass-rusher Barkevious Mingo with the No. 6 overall pick, sending a message to the rest of the league: The Browns are coming after your quarterback this season.
The first free-agent signing by chief executive officer Joe Banner was Paul Kruger, the sacks leader for the Super Bowl champion Baltimore Ravens. The first pick of this new era was Mingo, one of the most explosive and athletic defensive players in this draft.
2013 NFL Draft -- First-Round Coverage Rd. 2-3: April 26, 7 p.m. ET Rd. 4-7: April 27, noon ET Radio City Music Hall New York City Draft order | Draft home
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The Browns didn't address their biggest need at cornerback. They didn't bring in a playmaker to spark a long-struggling offense. What the Browns did accomplish was to put some fear into Joe Flacco, Ben Roethlisberger and Andy Dalton.
"We've talked about bringing in aggressive players to play in an aggressive scheme. He fits that very well," Banner said. "This was the outcome we were hoping for."
How much did the Browns want Mingo? Banner said he had a trade in place if Mingo didn't fall to them. When he was there, the Browns didn't think about trading down.
The Browns are doing more than switching to a 3-4 defense under new coordinator Ray Horton. They want to change the mentality. Last week, during the Browns' first minicamp, linebacker D'Qwell Jackson talked about giving the Ravens and Steelers "a little dose of their own medicine."
That wasn't the case last season, when Browns linebackers combined for 19.5 tackles for loss and sacks, the lowest mark in the NFL, according to ESPN Stats & Information. The Browns now have playmakers in Mingo and Kruger.
"We feel like building this the way we are, with character and aggressiveness and quickness, that this was the right guy at this time as we looked at our board," Banner said.
There will be some teeth-gnashing that the Browns didn't draft someone to improve upon the NFL's 24th-ranked scoring offense, but the Browns didn't need Smith, another strong-armed quarterback like Brandon Weeden and Jason Campbell.
Some will worry that Buster Skrine is still penciled in as the starter at cornerback. As I wrote previously, Milliner doesn't make enough plays to be taken at No. 6.
Asked about passing over a cornerback, Banner said: "We're not going to force filling a need on a short-term basis. We're not going to fill all the needs on this team this year. It's just not going to happen."
Plus, teams can get by with average corners if they can put pressure on quarterbacks. Look at the Ravens, who won a Super Bowl with Cary Williams (a seventh-round pick in 2008) and Corey Graham (Pro Bowl special teams player) at cornerback.
"It all starts with the pass rush," coach Rob Chudzinski said.
The reason I like the decision to pick Mingo goes beyond his name, which sounds more like a character in the "Harry Potter" books. (His name, by the way, was made up by his mother, who wanted something different. His brother is named Hughtavious. Yes, really.)
In his first interview with Cleveland reporters, Mingo didn't sound overwhelmed by the upcoming challenges of the NFL, which comes from his SEC pedigree. His sacks dipped to 4.5 in his final season in college, but his confidence did not.
On his vision for his pro career, Mingo said: "I think I can be as good as I want to be -- and I want to be great. I want to be one of those guys that gets their names in Canton, Ohio, and be a dominant player."
Even though Mingo didn't produce strong sack numbers, he still made quarterbacks move out of the pocket and hurry throws. He recorded 28 total pressures (hurries and knockdowns), tied for the second most in the SEC. Only Jarvis Jones (31), who was later drafted by the Steelers, had more.
Mingo is freakishly athletic. He has a tremendous upside. Sure, Mingo needs to bulk up if he wants to defend the run, but he brings something you can't teach: an explosive first step.
"I think I'm the best pass-rusher," Mingo said. "Week 1 and the preseason, I'll get to show it."
Cleveland didn't need to draft a pass-rusher. The Browns already had Kruger, Jabaal Sheard and Quentin Groves (and Browns officials said they had no immediate plans to trade Sheard).
The Browns, though, made the right pick because they went with the best player available. Reaching for a player like Smith or Milliner won't change double-digit losses season after season. This is about building a team, and that begins with embracing an attacking style of play. And, adding some 'Bark' to the Dawg Pound seems appropriate.
"It really started with our coaching search and Chud's philosophy, which is part of the reason why he got the job frankly, about playing aggressive and attacking defense and making life uncomfortable for quarterbacks," Banner said. "It's about being on the attack even when the other team has the ball. I think you could see it in the moves that we made, whether it's in the free-agent moves or what you've seen so far in the draft. It fit the plan."
Whoa...Saw a video where McShay said 1 team had Mingo has the #1 player overall. I wonder what the trade was? Possibly the same deal as Bills got. I think it's fantastic the Browns done the legwork to have a trade in place.
We'll see if this pick pans out. I like someone else on here (don't remember who) believe that Mingo looks almost like Wimbley coming out of college. He has a lot of work to do on his part to becoming elite on the next level and needs to get more muscle on that frame to shed the tackles he will be facing in the NFL.
I understand the pick with switching to the 3-4, but we desparately need to be looking CB in the 3rd or trade up in the second.
Quote: Plus, teams can get by with average corners if they can put pressure on quarterbacks. Look at the Ravens, who won a Super Bowl with Cary Williams (a seventh-round pick in 2008) and Corey Graham (Pro Bowl special teams player) at cornerback.
"It all starts with the pass rush," coach Rob Chudzinski said.
It would seem this is going to be their philosophy. Pass rush comes first, second and third. They don't care much about the secondary, they don't care much about stopping the run. They want pressure on the quarterback. They are going to blitz every down from every position. It could work as long as they do actually GET to the quarterback. You play ball like that you are going to give up big plays. Lots of them. So you have to MAKE big plays in return. Lots of them. On both sides of the ball. We shall see come September if they can actually get that kind of pressure and score like they will need to. If they can, it will be FUN to watch. If they can't, it's going to be a horror show.
We'll see if this pick pans out. I like someone else on here (don't remember who) believe that Mingo looks almost like Wimbley coming out of college. He has a lot of work to do on his part to becoming elite on the next level and needs to get more muscle on that frame to shed the tackles he will be facing in the NFL.
I understand the pick with switching to the 3-4, but we desparately need to be looking CB in the 3rd or trade up in the second.
Everyone wants him to gain weight. Why? Harrison plays at 240. Best OLB in history Lawrence Taylor played at 240. Our Clay Matthews(Jr.) was listed as 6'2 245. I'm not saying don't get him in the weight room to gain strength but I wouldn't rush to pack pounds on a guy whose greatest asset is speed.
Speaking for myself, looking at Mingo's frame, I believe that he could carry a little more weight/muscle without causing him to lost his speed and agility. He looks almost skinny at 240.
We'll see if this pick pans out. I like someone else on here (don't remember who) believe that Mingo looks almost like Wimbley coming out of college. He has a lot of work to do on his part to becoming elite on the next level and needs to get more muscle on that frame to shed the tackles he will be facing in the NFL.
I understand the pick with switching to the 3-4, but we desparately need to be looking CB in the 3rd or trade up in the second.
Everyone wants him to gain weight. Why? Harrison plays at 240. Best OLB in history Lawrence Taylor played at 240. Our Clay Matthews(Jr.) was listed as 6'2 245. I'm not saying don't get him in the weight room to gain strength but I wouldn't rush to pack pounds on a guy whose greatest asset is speed.
One key things all those guys have that separates them from Mingo is tackling technique. It's noted that he will hurry the QB, however, his tackling needs much improvement. If getting stronger in the upper body helps then so be it. He pretty much got owned by the best tackles in this draft and in the NFL you play against the best week in and out.
With Hortons reputation, I'm hopeful that Mingo's best qualities will show on the the field and his worse qualities will be improved on. We won't know anything until the season starts and Mingo gets some reps in the preseason.
Overall, I really think picking up Millner or trading back and picking up Xavier Rhodes plus a second or more picks would have been better suited for our needs; especially if the rumors of other teams interest in Mingo existed. The next logical thing would be to package Sheard in a trade into the second round, though I admit I haven't loss faith in Sheard developing into an effective OLB.
I like him more than I did before (might be rose color glasses). Some impressions:
Positives: 1.) Great first step when he is asked to pin his ears back 2.) Is often asked to seal the edge (especially against Manziel in game 1) this affects his numbers 3.) Knocks down a lot of balls at the line (I believe 6 in 4 games) - has long arms and times his jumps well. 4.) Has all of the OLB skills, comes out to cover TEs occasionally, or RBs out of the back field. 5.) Seals the edge against he run very efficiently, is asked to do this a lot, and RBs never really get outside.
Negatives: 1.) Is completely unable to come off blocks and make tackles against the run game. Doesn't wrap up well. Overall, dude needs to go to a weight room and do about a million curls. He kind of pigeon arms when wrapping up. 2.) Doesn't have a dominant pass rush move to go to, utilizes the spin - but doesn't use his hands well in order to move around contact.
There are a lot of positives here, he really just needs to add strength. Moving to OLB in a 3-4 will help minimize the impact of his biggest negative (the idea is that the DL takes up some blocks and lets your OLBs move freely).
Good post, and pretty much what I saw too of him. There's stuff to like about him, but man for staying at 6 picking such a raw player is borderline nuts. From everything you've written/seen, do you see a 3 down player? I don't know man...
Taking the Rams offer and then picking Eifert or Rhodes was the way to go imho. That said I'm ready to move on and the consensus can still righten the ship with strong selections at 68...in my mock I traded down for some additional mid round ammo, depending on what's left I hope we stay calm and NOT trade up in panic now to fill CB or FS
Quote: Have to say i would have rather had Milliner, But, Mingo is a very good player at a position we need help ... Now i really believe Sheard is History and headed to Atlanta ... JMHO
I've been resisting the thought that Sheard would be traded, but it sure seems like a real possibility now. A little surprised.
I will be completely shocked if he isn't a total bust. Way to go Lombardi, your draft met my every expectation. Draft a pass rusher with no hand usage. BRilliant!!! Hey round 2 coming up lets draft a 1 legged kicker.
I've never been much of a drafnik, so I don't spend much time watching college football or hunting down video clips of prospects in the off-season. Once we draft a guy though, I start looking for video to see what we may have in a guy. Here's what I have seen so far:
Frame-wise, he kind of reminds me of DeMarcus Ware. Mingo is, obviously, not as strong as Ware (yet, anyway). However, he is long and lean and has a build that can probably add 5-10 pounds without effecting his speed all that much.
As has been mentioned before, Mingo has an explosive first step. You can't teach speed so this was probably an important evaluation point for our FO. Lots of potential here.
His technique leaves a lot to be desired. He doesn't use his hands well at all and needs to develop another move or two on the rush (it looked to me like he's one of these guys who made a living off his athleticism alone in college). The good news is that all this is correctable with coaching and he seems willing and eager to become as good a player as he can become.
All-in-all, I think I still would have been more comfortable going with one of the top CBs. However, Mingo could become a really good player for us IF he develops his considerable natural ability to its fullest. My only reservation is that tweener pass-rushers like this seem to bust more frequently than they flourish. Hopefully, we'll get to enjoy watching a young man blossom into a great pro and fulfill the promise he showed coming out of school (for a change).
I am reminded of last years draft. In the second round Heckert selected Schwartz and a lot of people flat out hated the pick. Said he reached. Said Schwartz was not worth a second round pick. Then we took Hughes in the third and the haters erupted. What a horrible pick, huge reach etc. Taylor goes down, Rubin gets hurt, and guess what? Hughes and Winn showed why Heckert took them. Schwartz had a bad camp. Preseason was rough for him. Many wrote him off immediately. I pointed out that Mack had a really rough start too and he worked out....and so did Schwartz. The point is, until we see Mingo on the field we don't know how he will work out. He may be great, he may be a bust. But freaking out about it now is jumping the gun....
I remember that. I was one of the ones who thought Schwartz went too early. He was actually one of the guys I wanted us to draft. I did my own player profile on him. I had him going in the mid 3rd to mid 4th round range. I thought we reached, but he proved me wrong. He had an excellent year.
Mingo was not my first choice. I wanted Milliner. After that, I was hoping for a trade down. But, I can see how Mingo can really help this defense. It doesn't seem like a great pick, but it sure doesn't seem like a horrific pick. Heck, Ansah went BEFORE Mingo. This draft is full of players w/big question marks. It's a weird draft.
And to top it off, look at how many teams are drafting players at positions where they created the need by letting current players go. Jets trade Revis and draft Milliner. KC wants to get rid of their LT and draft a LT. Detroit allows to DEs to depart and draft another one. Etc......
Quote: One key things all those guys have that separates them from Mingo is tackling technique. It's noted that he will hurry the QB, however, his tackling needs much improvement. If getting stronger in the upper body helps then so be it. He pretty much got owned by the best tackles in this draft and in the NFL you play against the best week in and out.
You can get significantly stronger and improve your tackling technique without packing on a bunch of weight. He's fast at 240, will he be so at 265? By all means get him in a weight training program. But forcing him to gain pounds just to say he's huge is ridiculous. We didn't take him to be a strong sider. We took him to play with speed.
Quote: I will be completely shocked if he isn't a total bust. Way to go Lombardi, your draft met my every expectation. Draft a pass rusher with no hand usage. BRilliant!!! Hey round 2 coming up lets draft a 1 legged kicker.
The Browns missed on trading back or maybe actually got the guy the always wanted. I have been posting that the Browns were hurting for certain at DE. It would appear that Horton and the crew believed so too. So the Browns drafted Mingo to fill that void. This brings me back to what I've been saying all along, the Browns have too many interior lineman and most are questionable as to being able to convert to DE or in Sheard's case OLB.
This is the perfect setup for the Browns to make the move and trade Rubin now to get back into the 2nd round. Rubin is the only player of the DL front that can get the Browns back into the 2nd round. Let's not kid ourselves, CB is a huge need on this team and I don't believe the Browns will want to wait until the 3rd round to get a shot at a CB. With 2 safetys and 4 CB's already off the board in the first 32 picks, it would appear that getting back into the 2nd round for a CB would become critical at this stage.
The top 4 CB's left on the board are: Taylor, Boise St Banks, Miss St Alford, SE LA McFadden, San Diego St
There's a huge drop off after that so if the Browns are looking at CB then they need to make some kind of move to get back into the 2nd round and I think it will take trading Rubin to do that.
I think we also have to keep in mnd that if the rumors are true about us potentially going after Miami WR Bess then it will cost us a late round pick. Though not popular at all, I think the Browns have to pull the trigger of trading Rubin to get back into the 2nd round to get a much needed CB. The positives are the Browns can unload a 6 plus million dollar contract and address a serious need at CB. The negatives are the Browns lose a great DT. However, Winn, Hughes, and Taylor have been great finds and Rubin will not be missed as much as people might think. Not getting a CB to play opposite Hayden will be a huge void in the defense. Sometimes you have to make tough decisions - question is will the Browns pull the trigger or will they take a chance on being continually burned in the passing game much like they were in 2012?
Quote: I will be completely shocked if he isn't a total bust. Way to go Lombardi, your draft met my every expectation. Draft a pass rusher with no hand usage. BRilliant!!! Hey round 2 coming up lets draft a 1 legged kicker.
We dont have a 2nd round pick.
Technically we do.
We just got a zero interest 12-month advance on it.
I am not hating the pick in as much as I thought "TRADE DOWN" was in play.
So Banner and co stuck to guns and went pass rusher. Thats what they wanted..the Fins disrupted it by stealing Jordan. And they took the next best DE/OLB. Gonna say sumptin..the BROWNS first game is against the Dolphins..and Jordan..nuff said?
Quote: I will be completely shocked if he isn't a total bust. Way to go Lombardi, your draft met my every expectation. Draft a pass rusher with no hand usage. BRilliant!!! Hey round 2 coming up lets draft a 1 legged kicker.
We dont have a 2nd round pick.
Technically we do.
We just got a zero interest 12-month advance on it.
In this case..as in spending it on a kicker like the OP suggested we don't. But thanks for pointing out the obvious.
There are quite a few CB that rank right at or above some of those you listed. I'm not sure that Alford and McFadden are better than Poyer, BW Wilson, Ryan, Gratz, BW Webb, Mathieu etc. I think we will easily land one of that group early in the third unless there is a huge run on CBs in the second round.
There must have been something about Milliner that our front office and coaching staff didn't trust. I like the pick with Bark Mingo, it's not a sexy or flashy pick but he fills a need at outside linebacker and pass rush. You build a championship defense with explosiveness and quality depth. We now have Sheard, Winn and Hughes all coming off the bench to spell guys and rotate with them. I sincerely hope we don't trade Sheard or Rubin to get more picks though...
Our next three picks need to be Safety, Offensive Guard, and I would almost say two cornerbackers.
Quote: ..the Fins disrupted it by stealing Jordan.
I would have much preferred Jordan (for what that's worth). How are we going to use Mingo? If, IF, as a situational pass rusher, then the value at the #6 pick isn't there. IMO, this was a (minor) reach on our part...
Quote: Our next three picks need to be Safety, Offensive Guard...
With the run on OL, by the 3rd round, there won't be an OG worth looking at. My dark horse, Travis Frederick, is off the board, drafted by Dallas at #31 (I believe)...
They can do several things..teams with excellent pass rushes just draft these guys and turn them loose.They don't worry about how much or how little they play. I'm going out on a limb here and say I'm sure yet but I honestly think it depends on how Sheard handles his new tasks..but now there is a wave of OLB's the Browns have ,that they didn't have when we played the 34 before.
Mingo's a similar prospect to B.Irvin and M.Ingram who went 15th and 18th overall last draft and both have been situational/rotational players in their rook season, so I expect the same with Mingo. Irvin had 8 sacks because he stayed in the 4-3 as a DE....Ingram, who made the same switch Mingo's going to adapt to, pretty much had a forgettable "redshirt" rookie season
Since he was picked much higher, I expect more than that from Mingo
Thanks guys! Conventional wisdom says that a high 1st rounder (in our case, #6), should quickly become a Pro Bowler. A guy who is not going to see the field on all downs/situations, likely won't reach that lofty status. That is my rationale to believe Mingo was over-drafted...
Everything I keep hearing or see here in NYC says they will be a rotating force and it was a solid pick. I kinda like that idea. and it takes some pressure off the db's
Honestly, aside from the 3 left tackles, this was probably the worst crop of players in the first round ever. No stand out, difference making players. No elite QB's. No high-production defensive stars. Lots of injury concerns. Overall, a crappy 1st round.
We probably made the pick we had to and took the last, true elite "talent" left on the board at 6. If we deal down with the Rams, we lose out on Mingo and probably take the tight end from ND or another corner.
Thanks guys! Conventional wisdom says that a high 1st rounder (in our case, #6), should quickly become a Pro Bowler. A guy who is not going to see the field on all downs/situations, likely won't reach that lofty status. That is my rationale to believe Mingo was over-drafted...
I thought the same thing, but look at who was left. Is there another impact, 3 down player at that spot? Aside from drafting a guard at #6, I'll argue no.
Barkevious Mingo was my number one choice, so of course, I am happy we got him. However, this pick is still high risk, high reward. This guy has a ton of athleticism, speed, and experience playing standing up, with his hands on the ground, 4-3DE, 3-4OLB, and 3-4DE at LSU. I'm guessing his days as a 3-4DE are over. Not sure he played it all that much anyways. I think he fits into the versatile mold Horton and Chud have been talking about. This pick is consistent with that.
His production at his final year of LSU doesn't concern me as much as others. Comments from his conference call were telling on what he was asked to do differently last year as opposed to two years ago when he racked up more sacks. Bottom line this kid creates havoc, disrupts timing of QB, and due to the still dominant pocket passer, I think we'll see him pull his ears back more and rush instead of QB contain, particularly in the AFC North. I think his traits coupled with Kruger's past will make our CBs better. Not sure what the team will do to address the second CB spot, but I keep thinking Bademosi will get a shot. I'm ok with that.
The risk is his technique, and what other people mentioned that I never thought about, was his lack of control. Hopefully this is coachable and he can refine his skills to match his pure talent. I'm not sure he is all that good against the run which is why Sheard may hang around, but you don't draft someone at 6 unless you expect him to play a more than significant role. It will be interesting to see what happens to Sheard. I don't think this will happen but he could be in discussions for a day 2 trade, but doubt it.
In hindsight, I think the top two on the Browns board were Jordan then Mingo. If Mingo was done, the trade would have happened, like Banner said.
The pick tells me a couple of things that I think are relevant, but surely no surprise to anyone:
1. It confirms how important this passing game is to this league. So like the Kruger and Bryant signing to apply pressure, this Mingo pick screams the same approach. Get to get the QB and do whatever you can to screw up the ever important passing game.
2. The was not a NEED pick. It was a BPA pick. And I really like that. I was ready to come on this board today and claim how worried I was about Milliner being picked because it screamed NEED to me. Everyone has their own opinion, but from many reports and analysis I've read on Milliner, he was not close to Haden, Peterson, and Claiborne at similar places they were picked. Couple that with the several medical procedures and the lack of CB signings in FA, and I would have felt this would have been a little bit of a desperation pick. Maybe desperation is too harsh a word since Milliner went a few slots later, just thought there were better overall players. I had come to shy away from Milliner as the days got closer.
I see people saying....we NEEDED to get Milliner because we had no #2 CB. I don't believe in that response. If the best player matched the need, then fine. But I don't think it did when we were on the clock.
Quote: big ben will pick this kid up by the throat and PILE DRIVE HIM.
I didn't realize that Mingo was a 22 year old girl.
I agree with most that corner was the bigger need but I am pretty excited that we have a couple units that appear to be really good and really deep. I believe it was Peen who said, and I agreed, that this team hasn't since it's return had a unit that you could look at and say it was good, it was deep, it was finished for a while. I believe we can now say that about the front 7 and I think we are just some depth away from being able to say that about the OL (which I still think more highly of than most because I'm ok with the OGs, I just want to give it some time to come together)...
If the Browns could move up and get Cyprien (FS) out of FSU tonight... that would be awesome... nothing like a great pass rush and a speedy ball hawking FS to make any corner look better. (ref: Pittsburgh Steelers)
And like some others, I just held my breath and prayed that I didn't hear Geno Smith called...
Quote: People keep talking about Sheard being traded.
I keep thinking...Wouldn't the trade partner want a physical first?
Can't nullify the trade based on injury once we pick. That pick is gone. So, I think if there is a trade it will be in camp or early in the year for a 2014 draft pick.
Quote: I am reminded of last years draft. In the second round Heckert selected Schwartz and a lot of people flat out hated the pick. Said he reached. Said Schwartz was not worth a second round pick. Then we took Hughes in the third and the haters erupted. What a horrible pick, huge reach etc.
The difference is Heckert vs Lombardi/ Banner. Based on history... Heckert is straight beast mode with draft picks.... (especially later in the rounds) Lombardi and Banner have a history of terrible draft selections that are athletic freaks of nature and lack sound technique and the players tend to have a few screws loose. In fact, I believe that there are a few people on this board that could draft better than Lombardi and Banner. (I am not one of them) I am going to also say that I will reserve my judgement of Mingo. He could be a home run or a strike out. I have never been a fan of high risk/reward players especially with so many sound quality players sitting all around us in the first round. It is what it is and no one outside of a few people can change what the Browns do. I just hope we have a quality product worth watching this year.
Gotta admit that i'm good with the pick. He was one of my top 2 if we stayed at #6 with Milliner being the other.
He reminds me of a taller (6'5" compared to 6'4") Chip Banks but slightly heavier (241 vs 233/235ish). NFLDraftScout states that he "Possesses a lean, athletic build with plenty of room for additional muscle mass" which indicates the Browns will ask him to bulk up 12-20lbs???
Still don't think and/or want them to trade Sheard. Can't/won't believe there wouldn't be any room on this team for him if he was to shed 10 to 15??? Inside, next to DQ???
Obviously, with this pick, Rhodes's 3-4 D puts more emphasis on pressure (hurry the QB) vs coverage (making the QB work deeper into their progressions).
Gotta find a FS, CB, OG, TE in the next few rds or, after we know what we have via the draft, fill in with some unsigned FA's?
I'd have been good with Milliner and I'm good with Mingo. Looks like were gonna give back what we've been gettin from the Stools and the Ratbirds.
Also, why is it that everytime we seem to get a leg up on the AFC North competition that leg up goes back down when players/needs like Jarvis Jones, Tyler Eifert, and Matt Elam effortlessly fall into their laps. Just SICK about those picks.
At the end of the day, we picked an all out hustle player for our front 7, that's a start I guess. But playing defense is about stopping the run, rushing the passer and coverage....right now we LOADED up ALL of our top resources into the pass rush with Bryant, Kruger, Groves and Mingo...a little more "balance" would have been better imho as the pass rush won't help us if we can't stop the run or cover as we won't get to the QB on every down
Also, even in an attacking D, you can only rush so many players, so by default someone's going to be on the bench regularly....sure, LOVE the depth, but at the cost of a top 10 pick? Depth? We still miss a handful of 3down players and we party depth? Luxury anyone?
Quote: ..the Fins disrupted it by stealing Jordan.
I would have much preferred Jordan (for what that's worth). How are we going to use Mingo? If, IF, as a situational pass rusher, then the value at the #6 pick isn't there. IMO, this was a (minor) reach on our part...
Was it? There is only one more pass rusher on the board Jarvis Jones who went 17th.
You can forget about trading Rubin or Sheard it ain't happening. Just think, worst case Rubin and Sheard depth. Go ahead think about it and let it soak in a little...Rubin and Sheard depth. No more freak'n hand me downs from other teams...real starters as depth. Training camp having real competition recipe for winning!
Take a hard look at the overall balance on this team: DB's have a 1st and 2nd round player. DL have a 1st round LB's now have a 1st and 3 second. OL have a 2 1st and 1 2nd. RB have a 1st. QB's have a 1st. WR's have 2 2nd. TE is the only position without a 1st or 2nd round grade.
14 out of 22 positions have a 1st or 2nd round quality.
Looking at the four key ingredients in building a football team: 1. Franchise QB 2. Left Tackle 3. Pass Rusher 4. Shut Down Corner
It took Browns 13 years to finally draft all pieces. All four keys have a 1st rounder. Going forward they can now improve instead of "we need." Again let it soak in a little it is something Cleveland hasn't had since the 90's. Let me rephrase it. This team no longer in "we need" it is "improve" mode. Every year Browns are adding competition not finding a starter. It doesn't matter who is the coach, GM, or janitor. After 13 years, Browns assembled a team. From here forward, we get better.
1. Wed. Adam Schecter said he got news we were trying to move up to get Mingo...Sure ass heck glad that didn't happen.
2. I knew the strength up front in this draft were the LT. and the Edge rushers. Was hoping Floyd and /or Millner would have my two favorites Ansah or Jordan drop to us. No way...Johnson got taken #4 LTs went 3 of top 4 w/Jordan in the #3.
3. Throughout this last month I've been Ansah - Jordan and going back n forth w/Mingo n Millner as my 3rd choice.
4. Millner evidently w/5 surgeries had more than us back away...CB is a deep position as opposed to Edge Rushers. Actually Jets are being laughed at right now their fans are also very disappointed.
5. Mingo...love his explosive first step...has to get bigger but plays strong for 240. Like the way he plays off blocks even doubled. Looks to have a good motor. Only disappointment in watching Whole game film on him. Terrible Tackler - I hope that doesn't come back to Bite Us. No leverage n explosion into his tackles. QBs not bad but this was against RBs that I saw. Hope if he gets to 255+ he can become more physical.
6. If we do not trade Sheard for a 2nd round pick. I can only Assume. Mingo will come in ala Aldon Smith as a rookie for Passing Downs.
Lets face it...w/2 TWO Offensive GUARDS going in the top 10 - The pickings were slim up front...Made a lot of teams reach for OL Pugh, Frederick, Long - Fluker is no #11 talent. 6 OL in the top 11 picks should tell it all. Ansah n Jordan were the Stars for us to get. Mingo was hearing good things about him as in Hunter loving him. So I cannot be disappointed in taking him. Nothing can be better for our Attack D than an explosive Speed Edge Rusher...he gets bigger n stronger he could become the dominating player.
Cannot get a better name "BARK"evious Mingo...love Mingo especially if he Animals up with his Conditioning! Just sounds like a wild Dawg!
Hey the pickings were slim...Millner? Not only passed by us...What happens w/him facing NFL regarding Injuries. CBs have depth...rounds 3-5...we'll get a competitor Maybe even two. Honey Badger might be in our future?
JMHO - Mingo much much better than Jones. Steelers vs Browns...Edge Browns
With that stated drafting players is normally done based upon two criterion that you hope intersect.
Best Player Available(BPA) and Position Of Need (PON).
Banner managed to swing and miss on both accounts.
PON - Free agent Paul Kruger and Quentin (get me some) Groves will play with Sheard and Mingo. Tell me how that works?
BPA - Depends on who you talk too. Senior year 4.5 sacks, junior year 8. Jarvis Jones 14.5 sacks his senior year, 13.5 junior year. Jarvis played OLB under Todd Grantham's 3-4. Mingo will have to learn OLB.
Then of course you had Dee Milliner right there. Not only was Milliner a safer pick as a corner but he filled a very specific need.
And so it goes. Another year.
Maybe Haslam will be forced to sell the team. If he pleads guilty of knowing about the fraud the NFL may force his hand. Then of course Banner will sail. Horton will become a coach somewhere else. New regime will come in and decide on the 4-3 and we can all start over again.
In hindsight, I think the top two on the Browns board were Jordan then Mingo. If Mingo was done, the trade would have happened, like Banner said.
Thats it in a nutshell..I agree with your posts.they wanted a athletic fast OLB who can get to the passer and disrupt a offense. I would gather that Jordan/Mingo were 1/2 on their board and I do remember sometime back his name was mentioned by someone in the FO BUT IT WAS A BRIEF comment. Well Horton has his pass rusher ,as I noted they want to apply pressure upfront , I give them credit , they have their plan and are sticking to it.
Safer pick because he was the top rated corner in the draft and he will not be learning a new position.
If you cross check all the scouting reports on Mingo you will find opinions all over the board. Most consider Mingo a boom or bust player. If you go by productivity his senior year was lacking in results.
Milliner played under Saban. Played against top competition. He displayed his ability consistently at every testing level. His game film is terrific. He shined at the combine.
We want lots of pass rushers .... to send rusher after rusher after rusher after the QB.
I will make you a bet right now that Roethlisberger will not pick him up by the throat and body slam him. I will bet anything that this does not happen.
Bud, in all honesty almost everyone has him scheduled as a situational player. And let's be honest here, this FO has put all of their eggs into one basket.
We signed a TE that may be nothing more than camp fodder. A WR that, while talented, has never been able to stay healthy. We replaced Colt with Campbell. And all of these were very low investments from a cap perspective.
People wish to talk about the price of having two high pick CB's, but have no problem with a very high priced and high investment front seven.
As far as high investments, they've put all of their eggs into one basket. The kid is actually built in a way that makes him look like he can be handled pretty easy. His stats simply don't jump out at you and as I said, he seems to be, from what I've seen, as a situational player.
I hope the kid ends up being a beast. I always want the Browns and their players to do well. And no matter how much you blitz? You live by the blitz and die by the blitz.
I do feel this selection makes Sheard more expendable, but hope he isn't sent packing anywhere.
I know this draft is deep at CB, but I heard it said last night that several are predicted to go in round two. Possibly between 8-10. If we don't get back into the second round somehow, no matter how deep CB is, we will be selecting from a very depleted CB position.
The fact is, not having a strong secondary does appear to make quite a difference. The fact is, in the last half of the season last year, Zona gave up 31 points to Green Bay, 31 points to St. Louis, 58 points to Seattle and 27 points to San Fran.
Blitzing often times has its cost. And as much as people uphold dumping the vast majority of our resources into the front seven and putting the secondary on the back burner, I think this season will go a very long way in showing why that was not the wisest move going forward. We don't just have one question mark in our secondary, but two. Don't forget, that S spot needed addressed too.
TE's will give us fits this year because I don't see many if any guys that can cover in our LB'ing core. I'm hoping for the best but feel it's going to get pretty ugly.
Where I can get some Buster Skrine vs Dez Bryant video? I gotta prepare for the season.It's not easy keeping pizza and wings down after witnessing a train wreck like that.
Quote: Where I can get some Buster Skrine vs Dez Bryant video? I gotta prepare for the season.It's not easy keeping pizza and wings down after witnessing a train wreck like that.
Hey...not making it up...watching ESPN before NFL 32 Schecter on the screen n looking at his phone...he looks at his phone n then states Just got word Browns are looking to move up for Barkevious Mingo. Never heard anything else after. I don't think I was dreaming...lol
Just stating my frame of mind during the first 5 picks.
Obviously Mingo's family have a ROMAN EMPIRE fettish...lol
Hail Barkevious!
We'll see how he progresses. Pass Rush will improve 4-5 DB positions as opposed to improving ONE. All depends if Mingo produces!
Our front seven is locked with the ability to stay fresh with heavy rotation while administering constant pressure. I think Mingo will be decent this year, good next year and great the year after. I also look for Sheard to wreak havoc this year from the edge, and do an okay job dropping into coverage. Taylor, Winn, Hughes, Bryant & Rubin will wreak havoc up the middle, at the minimum, one or more will command double teams.
We can honestly say at this point that we're heading for one of the top front seven's in the league. Have we ever been able to say that?
I have no doubt we'll find someone to play opposite Haden, and we'll get a FS, an MLB, a TE and a guard, and I believe we'll eventually find our starting QB. It's just not going to all happen this year.
Some of you guys kill me. We could draft Jim Brown and people would complain that all we did was draft a lacrosse player who happens to be a running back.
I'd be surprised if Mingo wouldn't have been drafted high by someone else had the Browns not taken him. It's not like we drafted Craig Powell, Mike Junkin, or Clifford Charlton. Someone earlier mentioned Chip Banks. That was my first thought when seeing Mingo. Something about him reminds me of Chip Banks
Safer pick because he was the top rated corner in the draft and he will not be learning a new position.
If you cross check all the scouting reports on Mingo you will find opinions all over the board. Most consider Mingo a boom or bust player. If you go by productivity his senior year was lacking in results.
Milliner played under Saban. Played against top competition. He displayed his ability consistently at every testing level. His game film is terrific. He shined at the combine.
Fair enough. I don't necessarily agree with all of it but I understand your points.
-I think some teams had D.J Hayden rated higher than Milliner.
-Mingo played under Miles. Played against top competition as well. Milliner and Mingo came from the same conference.
-Mingo was one of the combine heroes and shot up "draft boards" of analysts because of that.
Anyways, the main reason why I asked about "safe" was because of all the injury concerns with him and the rumor about starting the season on the PUP list. That's all. Mingo is high risk, high reward. No question. But I personally wouldn't attach "safe" to Millier although I liked him too.
I got the Genie so I don't see commercials but only assuming the reference to some drop dead gorgeous actress??? Sheldon??? NAH...all throughout the draft process especially with highlights of other teams - almost everyone has #24 chasing a WR into the End Zone...n he will only get slower. Not going to miss him at all.
Not to change the subject...PO'd me that we were the only top 15 pick they didn't show Kid pictures n Highlights of the Prospect ONLY ONE (NFL Network)
Oh n all the talks with Solomon Wilcox - Inside Berea War Room...all they showed was EVERY MISTAKE LOWLIGHT OF WEEDEN Not ONE HIGHLIGHT just every SACK, FUMBLE n INT...Vers got a job w/NFL Network editing for Browns stuff...lol
Quote: Hey...not making it up...watching ESPN before NFL 32 Schecter on the screen n looking at his phone...he looks at his phone n then states Just got word Browns are looking to move up for Barkevious Mingo. Never heard anything else after. I don't think I was dreaming...lol
Just stating my frame of mind during the first 5 picks.
Obviously Mingo's family have a ROMAN EMPIRE fettish...lol
Hail Barkevious!
We'll see how he progresses. Pass Rush will improve 4-5 DB positions as opposed to improving ONE. All depends if Mingo produces!
JMHO
Wasn't saying you made it up..I know U better than that,.U don't make up stuff..I had mentioned in this forum a tip I had of a tradedown and who the Browns were targeting which Banner did confirm when he said if their player was gone a offer was on the table. Around 2-3pm I saw something that said Browns rumored to trade up ,then it was debunked..but it was never said for whom on the site I was on. On that site Mingo's name never was mentioned at all..Jordon and Milliner were but the talk of tradedown was the hot item.
The one scouting report on him compared him to Demarcus Ware. If that's how it turns out, I'll be pretty happy with that.
Yeah after all Lombardi knows what not to do after his oops on Junkin. He wouldn't do that to us again. JK
Actually I'm OK with Mingo I just thought Milliner was a better fit. If I were to complain about a selection it would be Lombardi. IMO Browns fans got cost plussed on that one.
For all the talk about how skinny and light he is, he's only a few pounds lighter than Dion Jordan who has only 1 inch on him.
I think we got great value for the pick, considering the class lacked a lot of players at primo positions.
I really hope they got input from Ray Horton about him, and what he thought he could do with him in his scheme. If that were true, I'd feel even better about it.
I love what we are doing with this front 7, we have really ignored it too much for years. Yes, there has been a pick here and there, but it really seems like they are deadset on getting this right.
I'm not worried about CB. For one, I think there are still some good ones available in this draft. This defense also doesn't require top-end CB's. Pittsburgh has gotten away with serviceable guys for years. It's all about creating havoc around the QB. I'm more concerned with getting that other safety position filled.
Won't there still be some cuts to come as well? There are quite a few teams near the cap, and will now need space to sign their draft picks. With us having the most cap space, couldn't we maybe take advantage of that? I read a story last week about some teams being within just thousands of the cap number. Can someone go into this a little further?
Ray Horton has to be drooling at all the options he has been given for this front 7. He can really mix and match things. If we can hand him a good FS, we're gonna be ready to go.
I have NO problem with the pick. I have a HOOJ problem with the fact that we didn't trade down to 9, get Bark there and get a 2nd rounder! NO one would have taken him 3 picks later (the Cards, Jets and #8 went for Offense or DBs) since we seemed to want him so much AND have a good spot in the second round. Now we have to wait until 3 OR make some WILD deal to trade back into the round!
Sorry slick. The dude is a beast! I really liked Milliner but he will never be much more than just a good corner. He will not be a shutdown corner. Mingo on the other hand IMO was the best pass rusher in this draft. I watched a lot of him over the past couple years. We did our due diligence on him and that's why most experts had him a top 10 pick. As for me.....our new FO has started off with a home run!! As Banner said it would be all of them in agreement with the pick and I'm positive they saw what all us SEC guys have been seeing!!!!! It was a easy pick!!! ! WOW im estatic!!!!!
Quote: I have NO problem with the pick. I have a HOOJ problem with the fact that we didn't trade down to 9, get Bark there and get a 2nd rounder! NO one would have taken him 3 picks later (the Cards, Jets and #8 went for Offense or DBs) since we seemed to want him so much AND have a good spot in the second round. Now we have to wait until 3 OR make some WILD deal to trade back into the round!
How do you know the deal was at 9?
The Jets could have easily gone after Mingo as well. They were rumored to have interest.
If Mingo pans out and becomes an all-pro, you won't care that you didn't get some random 3rd round pick out of the deal. Don't become obsessed with draft picks.
People need to understand that he's not here to lead the team in tackles or even sacks, he's here to apply pressure which if it happens to be a sack great, but if he applies constant pressure he will have to be double teamed and the RB will have to go to his side to help block, thus opening up the other side / players to become one on one with thier blocks with them getting the sack, I dont expect him to be a hugh stat person, but with his presents coming off the edge he will open up double to single team blocks for other players....
The Jets could have easily gone after Mingo as well. They were rumored to have interest.
If Mingo pans out and becomes an all-pro, you won't care that you didn't get some random 3rd round pick out of the deal. Don't become obsessed with draft picks.
Yes Dad...
Look, no one knows what's gonna happen obviously, but the Jets had to replace Revis and CB made sense. Even if Bark would've been taken by the Jets I'm sure there were plenty of other positions to have looked at (CB, WR, QB etc.)
*ahem* Mingo/Mongo jokes! Plus the whole "guy named Bark on a Dawg defense angle" ... he's a 10/10 if we were grading purely on his name. Too bad the rest of him is pretty raw, but I'm willing to give him a chance, and hope he maxes out his potential, as he would be a heck of a player.
Putting the Bark (with a BITE ) back in the Dawg Pound....That's good I should copyright that.
Mingo's nickname is "Ke Ke" ....... and when I heard that all I could think of was that Elton John/ Kiki Dee song from years and years ago called "Don't go breaking my heart". lol
The Jets could have easily gone after Mingo as well. They were rumored to have interest.
If Mingo pans out and becomes an all-pro, you won't care that you didn't get some random 3rd round pick out of the deal. Don't become obsessed with draft picks.
Yes Dad...
Look, no one knows what's gonna happen obviously, but the Jets had to replace Revis and CB made sense. Even if Bark would've been taken by the Jets I'm sure there were plenty of other positions to have looked at (CB, WR, QB etc.)
I really think drafting for need with a pick that high is playing with fire. The best teams go with the best player, and it seems like that's what they did.
I can't fault them if they think Mingo is a better player than Milliner.
Quote: Mingo's nickname is "Ke Ke" ....... and when I heard that all I could think of was that Elton John/ Kiki Dee song from years and years ago called "Don't go breaking my heart". lol
Back to football: here's a cut-up from all plays vs TexAM, Auburn, Bama and Washington...tell me what you see:
Quote: What if Sheard can't play OLB??? As you say "we have a big hole at OLB then" I'm a SEC guy....Mingo is a beast!!!! I love Millner too...but we got a STUD!!!!
With drafting of Barkevious Mingo, Jabaal Sheard still has a place in Cleveland Browns' defense, Rob Chudzinski says
Tom Reed, The Plain Dealer April 26, 2013 at 10:05 AM
BEREA, Ohio - Jabaal Sheard is making quite a sacrifice, switching from left defensive end to right outside linebacker.
It's sounds as though he will continue that transition with the Browns.
Coach Rob Chudzinski said he has plans for Sheard despite the franchise's decision to select edge rusher Barkevious Mingo with the No. 6 overall pick on Thursday night. Some have speculated the club might move Sheard if the Browns chose another edge rusher after signing Paul Kruger in free agency.
"Jabaal, I've been really impressed with him during the minicamp [last week] and his ability and how quickly he's demonstrated that he can make the adjustment to a 3-4," Chudzinski said. "Adding [Mingo] in the mix gives us another pass rusher and a solid rotation. That group we plan on rotating anyhow between Paul, Jabaal, [Mingo] and also with Quentin [Groves]. You can't have enough pass rushers, and keeping those guys fresh is a key."
Sheard, who recorded a club-best 15.5 sacks during the past two seasons, was asked last week about the possibilities of the team picking another edge rusher in the first round.
"I'm just going to keep working and do my job and see how it works out," he said.
Browns defensive coordinator Ray Horton said he plans to use a multifront defense which could give Sheard a chance to sometimes play end in a 4-3 scheme.
Sheard has focused on the footwork required for his new position, especially dropping into pass coverage. He trained at a Miami-based facility run by Cleveland native and former NFL receiver Chris Chambers.
Also, A&M ran a ton of quick passes, and moved the pocket on almost every play. Mingo was playing outside contain on many different plays. That's not his strength.
He also showed great speed on a number of plays. He rushed right on one play, only to reverse field and chase the play down on the backside.
He blitzed on another play just to come up a split second to late for the sack ..... but let's not forget that Manziel is a pretty damn quick QB. Mingo did get to him for a sack, and pressured him into an INT on another play.
Man they played him in a ton of outside contain against A&M.
EXACTLY!!! What most of the people on this board (this is the crap the reminds me of why I don't frequent here more often) don't know because all they do is look at the sack total and freak out. If you actually watch this kid as j have or watch film of him as a scout does you will see that he played in a containment style of D most of the time but you can see the explosion off the ball on every down and when asked to pressure he was as disruptive of a edge rusher as is in this draft by far. The film doesn't lie folks!!!! You will be proud of this pick come season.....TRUST ME!!!!!
Quote: The Browns missed on trading back or maybe actually got the guy the always wanted. I have been posting that the Browns were hurting for certain at DE. It would appear that Horton and the crew believed so too. So the Browns drafted Mingo to fill that void. This brings me back to what I've been saying all along, the Browns have too many interior lineman and most are questionable as to being able to convert to DE or in Sheard's case OLB.
This is the perfect setup for the Browns to make the move and trade Rubin now to get back into the 2nd round. Rubin is the only player of the DL front that can get the Browns back into the 2nd round. Let's not kid ourselves, CB is a huge need on this team and I don't believe the Browns will want to wait until the 3rd round to get a shot at a CB. With 2 safetys and 4 CB's already off the board in the first 32 picks, it would appear that getting back into the 2nd round for a CB would become critical at this stage.
The top 4 CB's left on the board are: Taylor, Boise St Banks, Miss St Alford, SE LA McFadden, San Diego St
There's a huge drop off after that so if the Browns are looking at CB then they need to make some kind of move to get back into the 2nd round and I think it will take trading Rubin to do that.
I think we also have to keep in mnd that if the rumors are true about us potentially going after Miami WR Bess then it will cost us a late round pick. Though not popular at all, I think the Browns have to pull the trigger of trading Rubin to get back into the 2nd round to get a much needed CB. The positives are the Browns can unload a 6 plus million dollar contract and address a serious need at CB. The negatives are the Browns lose a great DT. However, Winn, Hughes, and Taylor have been great finds and Rubin will not be missed as much as people might think. Not getting a CB to play opposite Hayden will be a huge void in the defense. Sometimes you have to make tough decisions - question is will the Browns pull the trigger or will they take a chance on being continually burned in the passing game much like they were in 2012?
I don't think they are going to play hiim at DE.. I think he's going OLB...
Quote: watch the Clemson and Georgia games and you'll fall in love with what Mingo can do
Someone made mention of him only having 4 sacks last season.. But that's not the only thing he seems to do. He disrupts things in the backfield, he gets to the RB behind the line of scrimmage and he appears to be intimidating.
I really think drafting for need with a pick that high is playing with fire. The best teams go with the best player, and it seems like that's what they did.
I can't fault them if they think Mingo is a better player than Milliner.
Nor can I, but getting another pick is what probably could've happened. I think mingo might be great of anyone else they like, but we'd have had quantity and quality, IMHO.
BEREA, Ohio -- The Cleveland Browns could've gone with the flashy pick by drafting West Virginia quarterback Geno Smith. They could've played it safe by taking Alabama's Dee Milliner, the top-rated cornerback in the draft.
Instead, Cleveland made the right move in going with LSU pass-rusher Barkevious Mingo with the No. 6 overall pick, sending a message to the rest of the league: The Browns are coming after your quarterback this season.
The first free-agent signing by chief executive officer Joe Banner was Paul Kruger, the sacks leader for the Super Bowl champion Baltimore Ravens. The first pick of this new era was Mingo, one of the most explosive and athletic defensive players in this draft.
The Browns didn't address their biggest need at cornerback. They didn't bring in a playmaker to spark a long-struggling offense. What the Browns did accomplish was to put some fear into Joe Flacco, Ben Roethlisberger and Andy Dalton.
"We've talked about bringing in aggressive players to play in an aggressive scheme. He fits that very well," Banner said. "This was the outcome we were hoping for."
How much did the Browns want Mingo? Banner said he had a trade in place if Mingo didn't fall to them. When he was there, the Browns didn't think about trading down.
The Browns are doing more than switching to a 3-4 defense under new coordinator Ray Horton. They want to change the mentality. Last week, during the Browns' first minicamp, linebacker D'Qwell Jackson talked about giving the Ravens and Steelers "a little dose of their own medicine."
That wasn't the case last season, when Browns linebackers combined for 19.5 tackles for loss and sacks, the lowest mark in the NFL, according to ESPN Stats & Information. The Browns now have playmakers in Mingo and Kruger.
"We feel like building this the way we are, with character and aggressiveness and quickness, that this was the right guy at this time as we looked at our board," Banner said.
There will be some teeth-gnashing that the Browns didn't draft someone to improve upon the NFL's 24th-ranked scoring offense, but the Browns didn't need Smith, another strong-armed quarterback like Brandon Weeden and Jason Campbell.
Some will worry that Buster Skrine is still penciled in as the starter at cornerback. As I wrote previously, Milliner doesn't make enough plays to be taken at No. 6.
Asked about passing over a cornerback, Banner said: "We're not going to force filling a need on a short-term basis. We're not going to fill all the needs on this team this year. It's just not going to happen."
Plus, teams can get by with average corners if they can put pressure on quarterbacks. Look at the Ravens, who won a Super Bowl with Cary Williams (a seventh-round pick in 2008) and Corey Graham (Pro Bowl special teams player) at cornerback.
"It all starts with the pass rush," coach Rob Chudzinski said.
The reason I like the decision to pick Mingo goes beyond his name, which sounds more like a character in the "Harry Potter" books. (His name, by the way, was made up by his mother, who wanted something different. His brother is named Hughtavious. Yes, really.)
In his first interview with Cleveland reporters, Mingo didn't sound overwhelmed by the upcoming challenges of the NFL, which comes from his SEC pedigree. His sacks dipped to 4.5 in his final season in college, but his confidence did not.
On his vision for his pro career, Mingo said: "I think I can be as good as I want to be -- and I want to be great. I want to be one of those guys that gets their names in Canton, Ohio, and be a dominant player."
Even though Mingo didn't produce strong sack numbers, he still made quarterbacks move out of the pocket and hurry throws. He recorded 28 total pressures (hurries and knockdowns), tied for the second most in the SEC. Only Jarvis Jones (31), who was later drafted by the Steelers, had more.
Mingo is freakishly athletic. He has a tremendous upside. Sure, Mingo needs to bulk up if he wants to defend the run, but he brings something you can't teach: an explosive first step.
"I think I'm the best pass-rusher," Mingo said. "Week 1 and the preseason, I'll get to show it."
Cleveland didn't need to draft a pass-rusher. The Browns already had Kruger, Jabaal Sheard and Quentin Groves (and Browns officials said they had no immediate plans to trade Sheard).
The Browns, though, made the right pick because they went with the best player available. Reaching for a player like Smith or Milliner won't change double-digit losses season after season. This is about building a team, and that begins with embracing an attacking style of play. And, adding some 'Bark' to the Dawg Pound seems appropriate.
"It really started with our coaching search and Chud's philosophy, which is part of the reason why he got the job frankly, about playing aggressive and attacking defense and making life uncomfortable for quarterbacks," Banner said. "It's about being on the attack even when the other team has the ball. I think you could see it in the moves that we made, whether it's in the free-agent moves or what you've seen so far in the draft. It fit the plan."
For everyone that is worried about his 4.5 sacks last year at LSU I seem to remember someone else coming out of college with only 4.5 sacks out of USC and he has been a pretty good pass rusher now in the NFL in a 3-4 defense... Clay Matthews anyone. Not saying Bark is the next Matthews just saying you can't determine a players NFL success by his collegiate stats based on scheme they ran in college, etc.
Quote: So we seem to have killer rotation at the defensive line. Now it seems we will have decent to killer rotation at linebackers.
Fresh/rested bodies being sent at the QB is going to wreak havoc.
And people think defensive back coverage is more important!!
We need upgrade in the secondary, but not nearly as much as we did at LB's. Compare to last year I think we are worlds better.
No doubt. An attacking front is going to make any secondary look studly. I love the move with taking Mingo. Yes I pimped Milliner, but after thinking about it I think this move made more sense.
YBrown made a great point, who/what other pass rusher was there to take? The Brown's wanted him so badly I heard they were manufacturing trades to assure they got Mingo. Seems like Horton will have a fun time seeing other QB's get smacked in their mouth after each snap.
Quote: Mingo's nickname is "Ke Ke" ....... and when I heard that all I could think of was that Elton John/ Kiki Dee song from years and years ago called "Don't go breaking my heart". lol
Back to football: here's a cut-up from all plays vs TexAM, Auburn, Bama and Washington...tell me what you see:
-Seems to struggle shedding blocks. Or else the guys blocking him were really good. -Seems very disciplined, meaning it seemed very obvious when the D scheme had him designated as outside contain. (I mean that in a positive way. Discipline is a good thing. Follow the scheme) -Basically a speed rusher (which is what we've been told anyway) -Not a "sure" tackler. Lots of arm "almost" tackles. -Def. not a "bull" rusher.......again, I think that's been agreed on by most everyone. -Loves to line up "way" outside. Is that him, or the scheme? I don't know. -Relies primarily on speed to get around the tackle on a pass rush. Spin move, while there, isn't astounding. -If he stunts to the inside, he struggles. -Likes to "lock up" with a blocker.
I'm not "high" on him, I'm not "down" on him. Just stating my observations on that tape.
In our d "scheme".....he may be good, he may not. He does seem coachable, if I can make that stretch based on what I saw, meaning, again, it was obvious when he had outside contain. He failed at it a few times, but such is life.
Quote: After Mingo, the next pass rusher/OLB to go off the board was Jarvis Jones, who many on here disliked. After that .... who?
How about Carradine or Moore in the 2nd after taking the Rams offer instead? Sure, they aren't the athlete Mingo is, but as situational/3rd OLBs plenty good enough
Many guys are seeing the same things. He is what he is right now....if he can't get more physical add wight without losing speed/quickness, learn tackling/finishing plays, better hand usage....lots of fundamental flaws for a 6th overall pick to ask to make a conversion on top
I love his hustle though, his motor is not a question mark and speaks volumes about his character, which our consensus outlined as a major reason for picking him. My fear is that he's a "tease player" that is disruptive but just can't finish plays...how often have we seen that vs a QB like Big Ben? Otoh, he was a true JR and is very young, so there should be some upside left to teach him stuff.
We will see, as strange as this might sound, the Mingo pick will look better or worse for me depending on what we do with our next picks. I always look at drafts as a whole and how our FO plays it, that's still wide open
Quote: I have no problem with Mingo. I do have a problem with he fact that we could have easily gotten Mingo and a 2nd.
I listened to Joey Banana's presser and he wouldn't even talk about it.
I dunno about that guy. And where the hell was lombardi? This is the craziest FO I've seen here since Policy/Clark.
I am just not following you. There's no guarantee that Mingo would be available wherever we happened to trade down to. You're basing our front office being crazy based on the Mingo pic? There a quite a few respectable sources saying it was a good pic, and the methodology used to select him was sound. As a matter of fact, I've not read anywhere but here that it was a crazy, foolish pic.
Quote: We will see, as strange as this might sound, the Mingo pick will look better or worse for me depending on what we do with our next picks. I always look at drafts as a whole and how our FO plays it, that's still wide open
That's not strange at all to me. For me, the draft isn't about winning the pick. It's about "how do you most-improve your team with the resources available to you?" JMO.
I said it before the draft, if you like a guy that much, you do whatever you have to do to get him, and you don't worry about anything else.
In this case, that meant staying put and not messing around with trading back and banking on a guy being there.
I like that this FO seems to be direct.
Past FO's have reached and gone away from their philosophy. I thought Heckert at times, and maybe not by his fault, seemed to care more about stockpiling picks than getting the guy he wanted.
Banner could be spoonfeeding us BS, but it seems like this is what they wanted, and yeah, they could have maybe moved back and gotten another pick, but at the risk of not getting their guy. If you make that move and don't end up with him, that could be the beginning of the end. You start chasing. They stuck to their plan. If Mingo busts out, at least they knew that they stuck to their guns.
You will never win when you're all over the place, but if you stay with your plans, you actually do have a shot.
The transcript of Barkevious Mingo's conference call with the Cleveland media.
(On his reaction of coming to Cleveland) - “I just had a really good visit. Going there, the coaches, obviously were very impressed. I fell in love with the city and now I have a chance to play there.”
(On if he met with Ray Horton during his visit) - “Yes, I talked to coach Horton. We pretty much went over how they want to use me in their scheme. We talked about football, we talked about how they wanted to get to know me as a person, obviously, and that’s pretty much the extent of my visit there.”
(On how are they going to use him in the 3-4 scheme) - “They needed pass rushers. They want somebody to get to the quarterback and help on the defense.”
(On if the team wants him to get bigger and stronger) - “Definitely. In my talks with them it was a concern, but it’s not really a concern. I can easily put the weight on and hold it throughout the season; it’s just the fact of doing it.”
(On if he knew the Browns were going to take him) - “I did not know going in. It was the stylist’s favorite color. We went with it and I thought it looked really good. It’s a coincidence, really big coincidence.”
(On what makes him such a good pass rusher and why will he fit with the Browns) - “I just have to want to get there. I have high energy, a quick first step, be first to the ball and that’s what they like about me. That’s what they wanted to add to their team and I feel I can bring that.”
(On reaction about being selected by the Browns) - “Oh, I’m very excited. I’m a national football player, it’s a lifelong dream. Now, I get to play for a team that loves football. Coming from my visit and sitting with coach Horton, he informed me of the tradition of the organization and how much the fans love their city. It really made me want to play there.”
(On experience in covering tight ends or running backs in pass coverage) - “Did it a few (times) while I was at LSU. Not too much, but I don’t think it’s a pretty big deal.”
(On switching to outside linebacker and being more effective as pass rusher) - “I agree completely with that. With the offensive lineman not knowing if I’m coming or dropping back into coverage, they can’t predict where I’ll be at.”
(On why his statistics were lower his senior season as opposed to his sophomore season) - “Just scheme on both sides of the ball. Offensive coordinators obviously don’t want their quarterbacks to be hit, so they’ll chip. With fast defensive ends, they’ll slot the line, they’ll three-step drop. Quarterbacks have been doing that for a long time. Also, on our side of the ball, we played mobile quarterbacks and box schemes. Our defensive coordinators didn’t want us to get up field and lose contain on those guys and let them make big runs. Those kind of box schemes, we would contain more than rush on some games.”
(On where he thought he would go when the night started) - “Honestly, it was wide open. My agent didn’t know anything, I didn’t know anything. Really just came in hoping for the best.”
(On his vision for his pro career) - “I think I can be as good as I want to be and I want to be great. I want to be one of those guys that get their name called in Canton, Ohio and be a dominant player.”
(On how playing in the SEC prepared him for the NFL) - “I think we have played in NFL type games, week in and week out. A lot of those guys that got their named called earlier are from the SEC. It shows. Obviously, we have a lot more guys that really make an impact on an NFL team.”
(On adapting his attitude from winning every year in college to potentially losing in the NFL) - “Just do everything I can to change that. Get to the quarterback, cause turnovers and win games. That’s what it’s all about.”
(On how much time he has spent in Ohio and in the north in general other than visiting and working out for the Browns) - “Really, that was kind of the first time. I took a couple visits coming out of high school to Michigan and UCONN, but those were the only trips I made up north.”
(On how successful he and Paul Kruger could be as a tandem) - “He is a terrific defensive end. Gets up, makes plays, causes havoc and sacks quarterbacks. With us two on the ends, it’s going to be hard for offensive lines to slide one way or the other or do anything really.”
(On his expectation to potentially win a starting job out of training camp) - “That’s my goal. My goal is to be starting week one and help win games. That’s what they are bringing me in here for and that’s what I’m committed to doing.”
(On his stunning smile and where in his family he got that from) - “Honestly, I don’t know. I guess, I don’t know. But thanks!”
(On how he was named Barkevious and whether he realizes that it is fitting for the Dog Pound) - “It’s very fitting. My mom just kind of made it up. She came up with it. She just wanted to be different I guess. She thought Barkevious was different.”
(On how he compares himself to Dion Jordan and whether he sees himself as the best pass rusher in this draft) - “I just think I’m the best pass rusher. Week one preseason, I’ll get to show that.”
watching the video you posted that was my first thought... great hustle and seemed to be pretty disciplined and I thought did a nice job of breaking down the offensive play adn getting in the right place.. I did see a couple missed tackles and he's not strong enough to do a bull rush to get into the backfield... but I saw him doubled several times, had a ton of speed, and I liked that he got up in the air a few times to either bat a ball down or make a pass a little harder...
I didn't know a ton about the guy before yesterday but so far I'm liking what i'm seeing.
With the 3 tackles off the board, i think the Browns had no trade partner and they went for their height weight speed guy. I was PO'ed when I got home this morning and saw Mingo selection.
Pass rushers with poor hand technique is a major negative for me. He has the great feet and good balance on the edge but it is negated with really sloppy hands. His hand technique is bad and it shows even in his tackling. He doesn't extend to get separation and when he is wrapping up he is grabbing instead of wrapping.
Now if he can learn hand technique, the sky is the limit and a 3 man rotation of edge rushers in Sheard, Mingo and Kruger could be scary. I would send him to work with Jay Glazier. HIs MMA training does a fantastic job of teaching these guys how to use their hands.
People need to understand that he's not here to lead the team in tackles or even sacks, he's here to apply pressure which if it happens to be a sack great, but if he applies constant pressure he will have to be double teamed and the RB will have to go to his side to help block, thus opening up the other side / players to become one on one with thier blocks with them getting the sack, I dont expect him to be a hugh stat person, but with his presents coming off the edge he will open up double to single team blocks for other players....
Agreed.
AND.... when he's not double-teamed, he still doesn't have to log a sack to be effective. One of my pet sayings is: "Good things happen when you get pressure." Forcing the QB off his spot, disrupting timing, etc often leads to picks downfield, or incompletions on 3rd & long plays. Either way, your D will have done its job.
Sacks are great, but constant pressure (wherever it comes from) wins you not only field position, but games, as well.
I like the idea behind this pick, and I'm looking forward to watching this kid develop.
BTW this was my top 30 from the other thread. Vikings made out pretty damn good according to my board. O well, hard not to like a Dawg named Bark even if he is taken at 6 overall and didnt make your top 30 lol
1. Luke Joeckel, OT, Texas A&M 2. Star Lotulelei, DT, Utah 3. Xavier Rhodes, CB, Florida State 4. Lane Johnson, OT, Oklahoma 5. Sharrif Floyd, DT, Florida
6. Dee Milliner, CB, Alabama 7. Jarvis Jones, OLB, Georgia 8. Eric Fisher, OT, Central Michigan 9. Dion Jordan, DE/OLB, Oregon 10. Bjoern Werner, DE, Florida State
11. Jamar Taylor, CB, Boise State 12. Jonathan Hankins, DT, Ohio State 13. Sheldon Richardson, DT, Missouri 14. DJ Fluker, OT, Alabama 15. Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington
16. Larry Warford, OG, Kentucky 17. Ziggy Ansah, DE, BYU 18. Chance Warmack, OG, Alabama 19. Jonathan Cooper, OG, North Carolina This ends my first round grades
20. Landry Jones QB OKla 21. Travon Austin WR WV 22. Sylvester Williams DT UNC 23. EJ Manuel QB FSU 24. D.J. Swearinger, SS, South Carolina
25. Matt Barkley QB USC 26. Blidi Wreh-Wilson, CB, Connecticut 27. Alec Ogletree, ILB, Georgia 28. D.J. Hayden, CB, Houston 29. Brian Winters, OG, Kent 30. Damontre Moore, DE, Texas A&M
I think they had a trade partner, but wanted Jordan or MIngo. With Jordan off the board, the pick was easy for them. I expect Mingo to be really good by year three. All the pass rushers have question marks, but my picks came to Milliner, Jordan & Mingo. I'm not sad we didn't pick Milliner because I think Mingo will pay dividends for years to come. I think he'll put on fifteen pounds, and learn some inside techniques, then watch out. With the rotation everyone stays fresh, but I can see third and long scenarios where Kruger, Sheard & Mingo are all on the field. That could be scary.
- I like when they describe a guy as "high motor and "hardworker" ... I also like when they call guys a "physical freak of nature" ... when you get the rare combination of BOTH of those things on the same guy ... That has to be a good thing right?
- I've heard guys on sports radio walk about Mingo quite a bit before the draft. One draft analyst really liked him, despite the low stats. He said that LSU played a gap-responsibility type defense, so part of the reason you see low sack numbers and him getting "hung up" on blocks was because he being asked to maintain responsibilities, rather than go after the Quarterback. That's something he's going to be doing much more often here.
LSU plays a pretty much straight up, straight forward defense.
I think you'll see Mingo in different spots with Ray Horton.
I love that he will have all kinds of help around him as he's learning the league. Kruger, who just won a ring, DQ, and some of these newer young guys who are starting to get it, Robertson, Fort, etc... He will be in good hands.
I'm really really excited to see how this thing plays out.
Quote: He said that LSU played a gap-responsibility type defense, so part of the reason you see low sack numbers and him getting "hung up" on blocks was because he being asked to maintain responsibilities,
exactly n I thought he handled the blocking well considering the blockers were not TEs n had 60+ lbs on him. But when it came time to shed the block in most cases he did so - unfortunately he missed the tackle a lot which was my only real negative on him. I also thought he did a good job splitting double teams n working his way through.
Here are the ingredients in my eyes that will determine if he will be Good to Great.
1. He has to want it...in saying so he has to work hard in becoming THE BEST not ok or good but he has to want to be THE BEST!...I believe from our interviews we came away with this being a CHECK!
2. He has to be football intelligent. Understand defensive schemes as well as offensive schemes - this we will have to find out but again our FO n coaches seemed to have gotten sold on him during the skull sessions.
3. He has to have a quick natural step - you cannot teach this just like basketball if you got that quick step you have something very special. I cannot impress how important this first step is n he's got one of the quickest in the draft. This forces the LT/RT to commit to their step too soon which he can create havoc n dictate. CHECK!
4. Motor/heart never give up again there are no stats or drills for this. But everything I see from the film is a CHECK!
There just are very few flags of failure here. Will he become a Hall of Famer??? No way we can tell but he could be around 260 in two years. He seems to have the right heart...we have good leadership for him between DQ, Kruger, Groves n even Sheard for that matter. What role will he take on - 3 down as a rookie? Passing Downs? We'll find out - I don't understand the woah is us tude??? We haven't had a blown first round in how long?
Wimbley? not a total bust. BE...ok 2005 Why I hate taking WRs early
Joe T...none, Mack, Haden, Taylor, Trent - we have been pretty strong since 2007...2 late QBs with extra picks. One a bust the other still TBA.
Joe T seems to have broken the CURSE!!!
I don't see this as an OH NO Moment. I wanted this Edge rusher stud for our new D...Ok I'll get over not getting my personal favorite in Ziggy but the theory is still there. Just about all boards (draft sites - who knows about NFL teams) had Mingo in the top 15 in a draft that nobody really had a good bead on.
Most sites had him as the #2 OLB behind Jordan...3rd if they considered Ziggy or any DE as a 3/4 OLB...I mean the only other first rounders were Werner n Jarvis Jones who both were not in Mingo's class.
Trading back...I'm telling you all - I know he has beady eyes but Banner doesn't know how to be Sneaky. Ok he was honest we had One, Two or Three guys targeted for this Edge Rusher Board of ours...some say Jordan or Mingo...some say just Mingo??? Don't know for sure. but Mingo was the only one there n he was our "TARGET" so Banner fesses up we had a trade down deal all set up but we passed cause we wanted MINGO. Right away its a mistake - we could have had so no so in the 2nd n 3rd who have the moniker of OLB to fill a position??? Huh? This isn't a grab bag via position we do too many Mocks n that is what happens in MOCKS you go for NEED n then fit any guy at any slot as long as you fill that need somewhere in the draft...you did well.
this is about Wanting a BALL PLAYER specifically n we obviously wanted him...now Banner is to be vilified cause he had a deal in place...so now Mingo cost not only #6 but the 2nd or 3rd rounder we had in the deal...come on dawgs. Enough.
Well we'll see how he produces...I'm not going to go Shangra la on you all cause it will be noted that I am a HOMER...so it will have to end with a We will see...just I don't see the red flags.
Quote: If you don't like it, you've never seen him play.
It's that simple.
Care to talk football? What did he do that was good? Justify the pick. There's a lot of stuff said criticizing him.
Mingo is raw, I'll admit that. However, there's no sure thing in this draft, at any position.
Even a guy like Milliner, who everyone wanted, had a lot of question marks. Hell, the Raiders were about to take Hayden at 3, with Milliner on the board.
In a draft like this, unless you go OT, you're reaching a little bit in the first round. The middle rounds are gold this year, though.
Why do I like the Mingo pick? Because as a pure pass rusher, he is the best in the draft.
He gets a quick jump off the ball, he has rare speed for a guy that size (rumors of him running a 4.5 40 time), he's a high energy player who creates havoc. He plays a "controlled chaos" style, low pad level creating good leverage coming off the end.
He's a little light, so I'd like to see him put on about 10lbs of muscle, but given his strengths, moving to the OLB in a 3-4 as opposed to being a down DE in a 4-3 will greatly benefit him.
He's got some improvement to do to become an all around football player, but he's the best pure pass rusther in the draft.
Quote: we could have traded back and still possibly gotten jarvis jones who had 28 sacks the past 2 seasons.......
I love how Jarvis Jones plays. I hate that Pitt got him. But, I do think teams are rightfully scared of his spinal stenosis. It may not become a factor in year1, 2, 3, but at some point, it likely will end his career early.
I don't see it as an OH NO moment either. I would much rather see a player selected at #6 who is an every down, plug and play player.
With some of his technique issues and seeing him more as a situational player, I just don't feel that's what you should be looking for with the #6 pick.
Slick...you don't watch much SEC do ya. Don't get hung up on the numbers. Watch each of them. Jones can't tote Mingo's jock!!!! Study a little bit before you act as if its gospel.
Quote: Slick...you don't watch much SEC do ya. Don't get hung up on the numbers. Watch each of them. Jones can't tote Mingo's jock!!!! Study a little bit before you act as if its gospel.
never said jones was better then mingo. Just saying we could have had him AND a second round pick and then we could grab a good corner.....but not now. No instead we will be giving up 300 yards passing a game
Situational Pit only if we decide on bringing him on slow following the 49ers blue print with Aldon Smith.
Only cause its a position that we could. But we could put a word in to the coaching staff that the fans would feel a lot better about the investment if we play him every down RIGHT AWAY...maybe they'll do it???
Situational PASS RUSHERS is supposedly well worth it. If we are lucky he will get the full gambit of the D from Game 1. But if we keep Sheard or possibly Grove being more experienced taking on the role of running downs. Also till he gets beefed up with a full off season it might be wise to keep the pounding away from that comes from the running attack. ???
I actually understand what you are saying. But I think you are looking at anything possible to mess this pick up...Its tought to think we got a stud but its been pretty good to us Drafting in the first since Joe Thomas. situational pass rusher is not our 1980 role playing....Now teams are passing MORE than they run. Use to be like 90% was a loss if you passed more than 40 times a game. This is a different Football role.
The issue of weight or whether or not he's very stout has been raised by a number of posters. Since his selection last night I went and looked at several tapes on draftbreakdown. Over and over against almost every opponent there are plays where Mingo gets incredible push against linemen weighing 300 lbs or more. That's not a fluke. I'm sure the Browns' coaches will help him develop hand fighting techniques to go with the leverage he's already shown.
Also, I know there are ways to develop greater strength without excessive muscle mass. What little I've read about the Browns strength coach I think he might be familiar with these training methods. Many of them having been developed by Russian and Eastern European Olympic trainers (none involving needle spikes). I remember reading he studied with some of these coaches.
The issue of weight or whether or not he's very stout has been raised by a number of posters. Since his selection last night I went and looked at several tapes on draftbreakdown. Over and over against almost every opponent there are plays where Mingo gets incredible push against linemen weighing 300 lbs or more. That's not a fluke. I'm sure the Browns' coaches will help him develop hand fighting techniques to go with the leverage he's already shown.
Also, I know there are ways to develop greater strength without excessive muscle mass. What little I've read about the Browns strength coach I think he might be familiar with these training methods. Many of them having been developed by Russian and Eastern European Olympic trainers (none involving needle spikes). I remember reading he studied with some of these coaches.
speaking of flukes, he bullrushed Fluker time and time again in the Bama game. he's stronger than he looks because he understands his leverage points. it's one of the questions on a guy like Ansah (who is bigger, stronger but doesn't get his body into the same type of position).
Quote: Situational Pit only if we decide on bringing him on slow following the 49ers blue print with Aldon Smith.
That's fine if he turns out to be Aldon smith. But I believe Smith had much better technique coming out of college.
Quote: Only cause its a position that we could. But we could put a word in to the coaching staff that the fans would feel a lot better about the investment if we play him every down RIGHT AWAY...maybe they'll do it???
No, they could have drafted a player that could have played every down but they chose not to.
Quote: Situational PASS RUSHERS is supposedly well worth it. If we are lucky he will get the full gambit of the D from Game 1. But if we keep Sheard or possibly Grove being more experienced taking on the role of running downs. Also till he gets beefed up with a full off season it might be wise to keep the pounding away from that comes from the running attack. ???
You know, it's kind of funny, you go on later in your post to talk about how much the league passes now. I agree. which pokes a pretty big hole in the theory of many here I believe. In the league today, nobody really knows which will be a passing down and which will be a rushing down unless it's third and very long. Otherwise? Every down is nothing but a guess and I'm pretty sure opponents will soon exploit such logic.
Quote: I actually understand what you are saying. But I think you are looking at anything possible to mess this pick up...Its tought to think we got a stud but its been pretty good to us Drafting in the first since Joe Thomas.
So who is drafting has nothing to do with it? We're just on a lucky streak and even we couldn't mess it up, right? Is that what you're saying?
I hope the best for the pick Tab. But his technique has some question marks. I really think Jarvis Jones will be a better NFL player when all is said and done. I certainly hope I'm wrong, but that is my opinion.
Quote: situational pass rusher is not our 1980 role playing....Now teams are passing MORE than they run. Use to be like 90% was a loss if you passed more than 40 times a game. This is a different Football role.
I agree to an extent. I agree there is a lot more passing now and as mentioned above, you never know when they will pass anymore either. Well unless you're playing against Pat Shurmer.
Quote: ??? btw were you all for Ziggy?
I really wasn't all in for anybody. I usually pimp a player but stayed silent this year. I had no horse in the race.
It just seems to me that investments needed to be diversified to some extent rather than this FO putting all its eggs in one basket and betting the farm on the front 7 while ignoring so many other areas.
Wasn't my first choice, but my second. Milliner filled a bigger hole IMO, but I understand the logic in the choice.
Our front 7 is looking to be pretty damn stacked, and that's on the different levels we'll be playing. Prototypical 3-4 OLB....Sheard to play DE in our 4-3 front, and our DL can rotate all game with the talent there.
THIS is why they didn't go after a CB. With the pass rush, our secondary is automatically better.
Never heard that before Pit...is this Magic Horton D something you read? Can you share the Link...
Come on Pit. Not one dawg said that but if that is the way you wish to Debate with yourself of course you will think you are correct. Slick has been suicidal posting since our pick....go read all his posts...so you are saying that is your opinion also...
Wah...wee could have had Millner. You know the prospect that was Definately going to the Eagles well maybe Jags. well if not there than definately the LIONS....Wait maybe the Dolphins will trade up for that Great Special CB...nope they went for a Pass Rusher...well Looks like ALL THE PICKS leading up to us were spent on LT.
You know the old unwritten order of RARE PRODUCT IN THE NFL.
#1 QB....obviously nothing worthy of a top 10 sniff.
#2 Left Tackle...woah, 3 went early none in the class of Joe Thomas but went 1,2 n 4.
#3 Edge Pass Rusher...First move up...overall #3 n the only other none Left Tackle went edge rusher at #5. Oh guess what #6.
#4 Cover Corners. overall #9 n 12 (if you wish to count anything taken by the Raiders) jets were scoffed at for trading the best Cover Corner in the NFL because he had injury ??? for a Prospect Cover Corner w/injury ???
When we have been told by every expert draft talking head bozo whatever that this draft is pretty deep in CBs...but not those Edge Rushers....after Mingo there was a big drop.
that is all that anyone is saying. Yes we could have had Millner a very talented btw CB but he did have glaring medical issues n the CB level is deep in this draft.
Thats all I or anyone else ever stated was This draft...There was a high ledge to drop from talent. But not so high from CBs. Also it is a fact that CB talent as a UNIT...all 4-5-6 in coverage would benefit with Pressure on the QB...movement more decision mistakes. more inaccurate passes, more tipped passes, more wobbly passes...for the entire DB unit to benefit on. Why not. We aren't talking a Magic Bean Defense...we are talking about what is going on in the NFL.
Haven't you been listening when other teams make moves...oh HOW DO YOU BEAT TOM BRADY...oh HOW DO YOU BEAT MANNING...Pressure, I really don't hear about get first round CBs is the way ?? You tell me. But then you have to know this Pit. You're pretty savvy football wise. Pressure only works for other teams...not the Browns?
Well enjoy day two...don't know what move we make.
I don't want this trade to go through Devon Bess from the Dolphins??? But we'll see haven't heard a peep since so maybe it is not going through.
Sheard...I like Sheard hope he remains but if we do trade him...I understand.
But it would have to be for somebody we really want...like maybe Cyprien? or Margus Hunt?
I'm hoping Amerson drops to our 3rd round pick... JMHO we'll see enjoy Day 2 All will be good its the system O n D all will look Good
Quote: I remember that. I was one of the ones who thought Schwartz went too early. He was actually one of the guys I wanted us to draft. I did my own player profile on him. I had him going in the mid 3rd to mid 4th round range. I thought we reached, but he proved me wrong. He had an excellent year.
Mingo was not my first choice. I wanted Milliner. After that, I was hoping for a trade down. But, I can see how Mingo can really help this defense. It doesn't seem like a great pick, but it sure doesn't seem like a horrific pick. Heck, Ansah went BEFORE Mingo. This draft is full of players w/big question marks. It's a weird draft.
And to top it off, look at how many teams are drafting players at positions where they created the need by letting current players go. Jets trade Revis and draft Milliner. KC wants to get rid of their LT and draft a LT. Detroit allows to DEs to depart and draft another one. Etc......
I wanted Milliner or Jordon. I thought for sure when Miami traded up they were going for the Left Tackle. When they took Dion I was stunned. I figured Milliner would go to the Lions and we'd trade down if possible. This was a weird draft. I hope this new blitz every down defense works. I hope Mingo gets 15 sacks this season. But I think we better plan on scoring a LOT of points. When you play like that you do make big plays(sacks, ints, forced fumbles). But you give up big plays too. It should be fun to watch if they get this blitz fired up. If not, it's probably going to be pretty ugly. We shall see come September. WAY to early to freak out though.
Tab, if they 8-10 CB's go off the board in round 2 as many seem to think, that will have us drafting the 11th to 12th CB in this draft at best and we still would have no S to speak of.
Now you seem to think that having several pass rushers and one legit CB is some kind of magic answer.
And yes, many people have claimed we really don't need a strong secondary with Hortons D. They make it sound like some kind of afterthought. I know you can read Tab and it's been posted all over the board. I may have taken a little liberty with it.
And Millner went 9th. He was a top 10 pick and I have to wonder where Mingo would have went had we not have selected him? Of course we don't have the answer to that but since Millner did go at #9 you need not act as if he fell off the charts because he didn't.
I guess three pass rushers with two good CB's makes more sense to me than investing in four pass rushers and no real solution, only questions at CB.
There's been zero balance in the major investments of this FO. They've focused on one thing with all major investments and let the rest go ignored.
Now I know this draft is deep at CB, but those who feel 12-14 deep at the CB position is some reasonable response to that, I think they're off their rocker.
I guess maybe people who wish to see more areas than one addressed with some real help are the ones who have it wrong. Because what they have done is built a front seven and left most everything else to a third round pick or less.
Surely you don't believe that is the best solution to our problems do you?
To everyone freaking out about the Corner opposite Joe Haden. Every game I watched you hear announces or fans say no matter how good your corners are, if you can't get to the QB, the receivers are going to get open. We made the right choice over Milliner for this exact reason. CB is deep in this draft we'll be ok. I was hoping to trade back like many of you. But I still would have taken the top Pass Rusher first then CB second.
Quote: We will see, as strange as this might sound, the Mingo pick will look better or worse for me depending on what we do with our next picks. I always look at drafts as a whole and how our FO plays it, that's still wide open
That's not strange at all to me. For me, the draft isn't about winning the pick. It's about "how do you most-improve your team with the resources available to you?" JMO.
I agree with both of you. It is a draft class and it is pretty rare one player is the only one to have a impact, good or bad.
I myself like the pick just based on it's own.
Even if the guy is the next Cam Wimbly and is nothing but a speed rusher, if he can make 8-9 sacks a year and double that in pressures, it isn't a bad thing. Especially when you add it to the "Whole".
My personal feeling is he will become more than that. I think he can become more or less a sack a game type player, and for every sack, a player usually has 3-4 almost sacks.
Thanks guys! Conventional wisdom says that a high 1st rounder (in our case, #6), should quickly become a Pro Bowler. A guy who is not going to see the field on all downs/situations, likely won't reach that lofty status. That is my rationale to believe Mingo was over-drafted...
Who would you have taken instead?
And by your reasoning, Hecket was a total failure, right? In three years, he did not draft one Pro Bowl player. Are you going to rip him?
You guys try and pretend to be serious, but you are so full of crap and so freaking obvious.
It just seems to me that investments needed to be diversified to some extent rather than this FO putting all its eggs in one basket and betting the farm on the front 7 while ignoring so many other areas.
I am not saying this in a confrontational manner, but I really want to know if you think it's more important to draft for need over BPA?
Me? I'm all for BPA. There are a few exceptions, such as---the Browns should not draft a LT or a C. But otherwise, I say draft BPA and in the long run, you will be better off.
I am NOT saying Mingo was the BPA. He may have been. He may not have been. The Browns thought he was.
Regarding the 3-down argument. I hear you, but how important is it. I think production is more important. A guy like John Abraham was not a 3-down player, but he made way more plays than anyone else on his defense.
Our defense is about attacking. I think Horton and Chud want a lot of front seven guys who will get after it. I think we will be subbing frequently. Are you telling me Taylor was not worth a 1st round pick because he gets subbed for a lot? It's all relevant, man.
this just adds to our versatility, being a starter is not what it used to be so much siuational players anymore ... I think Ytown ran down some of the many fronts we could roll out ,,, scary
Quote: Slick...you don't watch much SEC do ya. Don't get hung up on the numbers. Watch each of them. Jones can't tote Mingo's jock!!!! Study a little bit before you act as if its gospel.
This! And where did all these poster's with so much negativity come from?
This is what we gotta hope for.
...also some positives in there, just not worth the risk at 6 overall imho
(Sorry, just had to) 
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